MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MUfan12 on September 20, 2013, 06:29:19 PM
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MU just announced it.
EDIT: Here's the release- http://news.marquette.edu/news-releases/rev-scott-r-pilarz-s-j-to-step-down-as-president-of-marquette-university/
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Hiroshima I guess
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That's bizarre. MU wishes to thank Pilarz for his contribution and dedication? Huh? Wasn't he in town for about 6 months?
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Yea, that seems really bizarre to me. Anyone got any behind the scenes
information
speculation
rumors
gossip
complete b.s. that will fuel scoop for weeks?
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Da fuq?
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Can't be good to be typical buried late Friday release.
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Buzz to Texas.
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Pilarz to smu
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Fr. Wild .. your table is ready. Again.
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
That sums it up how I feel about this. ;D
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That's bizarre. MU wishes to thank Pilarz for his contribution and dedication? Huh? Wasn't he in town for about 6 months?
Actually two years. Came on board in August, 2011.
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Per the Milwaukee Journal.
Developing....
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Hopefully the new president will bring back Warri...
Sorry, had to semi troll.
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DiUlio for ......
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http://www.jsonline.com/news/pilarz-resigning-as-president-of-marquette-b99103180z1-224649161.html
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Gotta be more to this story.
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Gotta be more to this story.
Indeed.
Gotta figure no one would select Pilarz again for a presidential post at a Jesuit university, so his days a collegiate leader are over.
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Gotta be more to this story.
If you read the comments on the JS, that's the implication, but who knows.
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Can somebody please make a scandal poll? Because that is absolutely what this is.
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Classic friday bad news dump
Shortest Marquette presidency since Rodgers in 1898-1900
*Speculation*
Something with his health?
Got the impression Pilarz was never good at fundraising or being an administrator, resume wasn't very strong to be an administrator.
If it was a donor power play, would it not have happened in August before the student get back? but it explains why he is leaving at semester
A lot of Senior Admin resigned as Pilarz brought in his own team, will probably see a lot of turnover below him too...
Conventional Wisdom suggest Tim Lannon of Creighton to replace. Former MU guy. Been on the Board of Directors at MU for a few years now too.
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I don't know what the scandal could possibly be, but I'm sure there's a good reason why Buzz fired him
Its too hard to do teal on my phone
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Gotta be more to this story.
No question. The dude was here two years yet he has been thinking of retiring for the last three??????
Maybe he did not like to raise money because he was not exactly making the rounds like Fr Wild was.
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Jsonline doesn't have comment section with story anymore, at least I'm not seeing it
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Can somebody please make a scandal poll? Because that is absolutely what this is.
We are in luck! There is no better place on the planet to investigate MU scandals than this very website.
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Is he pissed Buzz couldn't reel in Looney?
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Something tells me we may be changing our nickname to the Gold Lamé.
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Gotta be more to this story.
The LAX coach is at fault here. He's recruiting kids who get in trouble with the law. Can't have that. And we need administration who is going to keep this university under control. The LAX coach is the CEO of his program and thus responsible for his players, and the AD is the CEO of the athletic department and thus responsible for his coaches, and the prez is the CEO of the University and thus responsible for the AD. Thus, this all traces back to the prez allowing a student-athlete in his athletics program. Thus he has to go. Just like Buzz is at fault for the AD being fired. Or something like that.
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Pilarz is moving on to a program that can land a big
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He was pissed he didn't know what time MU was playing in the first round of the NCAA's. Too much stress, had to step down.
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Jsonline doesn't have comment section with story anymore, at least I'm not seeing it
Deleted
Basically one woman said something to the effect she knew this was coming and surprised it took this long and a very big story was about to come out. Take it for what it is worth...just chatter, but nevertheless it was there before JS took it down. A bunch of responses to that post were speculating on all kinds of fun stuff, that's probably why they were removed.
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Something tells me we may be changing our nickname to the Gold Lamé.
LOL
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Holy shiitake mushrooms. Get the popcorn out. This is going to interesting.
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Someone needs to ring up Coach Tom Crean's cell and find out what's up.
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http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/pilarz-resigning-as-president-of-marquette-b99103180z1-224649161.html?ipad=y
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Wow .. the JS did remove the comments from that article. I wonder why. I mean .. it's the JS comment section, there's been FAR (times a billion) worse things written in previous stories.
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Keefe to run MU?
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Remove the teal and we're good.
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Buzz to university president.
Pilarz to Pope-In-Waiting.
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They often take down comment section if posts are related to race or sexual incidents. Not saying this is the case, but they do delete comments if they get in delicate topic range.
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That's bizarre. MU wishes to thank Pilarz for his contribution and dedication? Huh? Wasn't he in town for about 6 months?
Got to be PC in the press release. "Way to half-ass it and be non-committal. Scandalous reasons to follow." probably wouldn't be appropriate for a press release.
Fr. Wild .. your table is ready. Again.
Has to be the first call to serve as the interim, right? And if an interim is found, why not move on it now? Having a lame duck for three months will not help anything.
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Is it a given that the new prez will be a male or a Jesuit? Just axin'.
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Is it a given that the new prez will be a male or a Jesuit? Just axin'.
They actually just updated the bylaws to allow for a layperson when they hired Pilarz. So no, it doesn't have to be. But I'd assume they'd give Jesuits preference everything else being equal
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I have an idea. How 'bout we stop and simply say a prayer? That's my plan.
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Is he pissed Buzz couldn't reel in Looney?
He told Buzz to "stop comin' round" to Kevon's place. With Plarz out of the picture, Kevon gave MU a verbal today!
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They actually just updated the bylaws to allow for a layperson when they hired Pilarz. So no, it doesn't have to be. But I'd assume they'd give Jesuits preference everything else being equal
Interesting. I do remember reading an interview with Father Wild where he predicted that MU would have a lay President in the not-so-distant future. Georgetown has already made the leap. Agree that preference is to a Jesuit, unless a home run candidate emerges.
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I wonder what odds we could have gotten on Buzz outlasting Pilarz. Damn.
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Lenny
Long odds, very long odds.
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Fr. Pilarz headed to Austin?
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Is he pissed Buzz couldn't reel in Looney?
Looney not committing to MU was Pilarz's fault because he was unwilling to relocate Marquette out of Milwaukee.
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Pilarz is moving on to a program that can land a big
Pay the man, Shirley!
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Is it a given that the new prez will be a male or a Jesuit? Just axin'.
Go all in. Hire a lesbian.
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Zingy
It worked for the Badgers.
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crap...i always asked willie what he was going to do if buzz didn't meet his demand of landing 5 star bigs. take this as your one and only warning buzz...your next.
just read that pilz lived in a dorm with students...didn't go to mu for my undergrad...how the hell does a priest live in a dorm? would have been enough to get me to move, but i'd definitely send my niece to mu if i can get her a room next to a nun.
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crap...i always asked willie what he was going to do if buzz didn't meet his demand of landing 5 star bigs. take this as your one and only warning buzz...your next.
just read that pilz lived in a dorm with students...didn't go to mu for my undergrad...how the hell does a priest live in a dorm? would have been enough to get me to move, but i'd definitely send my niece to mu if i can get her a room next to a nun.
What was the name of that priest that lived in the 'lanche?
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Go all in. Hire a lesbian.
kinda went down that path already
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Why? Is Ellen Degeneres available?
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What was the name of that priest that lived in the 'lanche?
All of them.
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Pope Francis to Marquette is what I hear.
He wants the bling of a NC Ring, the papal seal is so blah.
All joking aside, I would assume something not good is going on, so a pray is probably in order.
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What was the name of that priest that lived in the 'lanche?
We called him Fr. Drink
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Why? Is Ellen Degeneres available?
She could coach the dance team (Intesity, or was it Immensity?) in her spare time.
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Conventional Wisdom suggest Tim Lannon of Creighton to replace. Former MU guy. Been on the Board of Directors at MU for a few years now too.
Maybe, but Lannon was a Creighton guy long before he was ever a MU guy. And, he got the Creighton gig right after Pilarz was announced in '10--so may have been that was his preference. Also not sure if he'd want to switch gigs again this soon.
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crap...i always asked willie what he was going to do if buzz didn't meet his demand of landing 5 star bigs. take this as your one and only warning buzz...your next.
just read that pilz lived in a dorm with students...didn't go to mu for my undergrad...how the hell does a priest live in a dorm? would have been enough to get me to move, but i'd definitely send my niece to mu if i can get her a room next to a nun.
The talented liturgical music writer and musician, Dan Schuette, FORMERLY SJ, lived in a dorm. Note the 'formerly'.
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Is he taking Larry with him?
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i predict buzz's father-in-law gets the job...
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crap...i always asked willie what he was going to do if buzz didn't meet his demand of landing 5 star bigs. take this as your one and only warning buzz...your next.
just read that pilz lived in a dorm with students...didn't go to mu for my undergrad...how the hell does a priest live in a dorm? would have been enough to get me to move, but i'd definitely send my niece to mu if i can get her a room next to a nun.
A lot of the Jesuits live in the dorms. There's almost one in every res hall at MU. They have bigger apartments than just typical dorm rooms. And, I think Pilarz specifically chose to live in a dorm instead of the JesRes.
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A lot of the Jesuits live in the dorms. There's almost one in every res hall at MU. They have bigger apartments than just typical dorm rooms. And, I think Pilarz specifically chose to live in a dorm instead of the JesRes.
Father Pilarz lives in Campustown.
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A lot of the Jesuits live in the dorms. There's almost one in every res hall at MU. They have bigger apartments than just typical dorm rooms. And, I think Pilarz specifically chose to live in a dorm instead of the JesRes.
i'm not one for organized religion...but it's a cool gesture.
that said, i'm not picturing how that would work. i was far from crazy in college but girls overnight and swearing like a sailor at any sporting event on tv was minimal behavior.
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Yea, that seems really bizarre to me. Anyone got any behind the scenes information
speculation
rumors
gossip
complete b.s. that will fuel scoop for weeks?
Great post. Very funny.
I doubt there is a true scandal. He wouldn't be Pres for months longer
if there was a selasious scandal waiting to cone out.
My bs guess is he was in over his head with too many demands.
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i'm not one for organized religion...but it's a cool gesture.
that said, i'm not picturing how that would work. i was far from crazy in college but girls overnight and swearing like a sailor at any sporting event on tv was minimal behavior.
I don't think he ever lived in McCormick, he wanted to but I believe he was persuaded otherwise. I'm pretty sure he lives in Campus town.
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Why? Is Ellen Degeneres available?
Zingy's wife is available.
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The First Stage of the Prophecy comes true...
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Zingy
It worked for the Badgers.
Goose, you're alive!
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I hear Fr. P is just going fishing. He slays them with jigs and crawlers.
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They actually just updated the bylaws to allow for a layperson when they hired Pilarz. So no, it doesn't have to be. But I'd assume they'd give Jesuits preference everything else being equal
Probably, not a bad idea to go with a layperson. The primary job of most university presidents is to have a lot of connections to help raise money. Being of the cloth reduces the connections one builds from a career in business.
To move to the next level of institutions MU really needs to build its endowment, a layperson president could facilitate that.
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He lives on the 4th floor in Campus Town East. (Down the hall from my buddies) Whover the new president is I really hope they are much kinder to greek life then Wild and Pilarz ever were.
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just read that pilz lived in a dorm with students...didn't go to mu for my undergrad...how the hell does a priest live in a dorm? would have been enough to get me to move, but i'd definitely send my niece to mu if i can get her a room next to a nun.
I lived on the same floor/wing as a priest in the 80s. Never an issue, in fact it was a bonus. We seemed to get away with more.
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I read some comments on an inability fund raise. My understanding was that it was one of his strengths. A the university of scranton, he did a great job at a very low profile school. Interesting development. The fact he's staying through the end of semester more than likely means it's not a scandal/. I think it was due to disagreement on future path of school.
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They often take down comment section if posts are related to race or sexual incidents. Not saying this is the case, but they do delete comments if they get in delicate topic range.
Yes, there were some like that...the latter, not the former.
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Zingy
It worked for the Badgers.
Worked for the University of California
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I read some comments on an inability fund raise. My understanding was that it was one of his strengths. A the university of scranton, he did a great job at a very low profile school. Interesting development. The fact he's staying through the end of semester more than likely means it's not a scandal/. I think it was due to disagreement on future path of school.
Take a look at the numbers. Not great at MU.
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I lived on the same floor/wing as a priest in the 80s. Never an issue, in fact it was a bonus. We seemed to get away with more.
Fr. Naus?
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Great post. Very funny.
I doubt there is a true scandal. He wouldn't be Pres for months longer
if there was a selasious scandal waiting to cone out.
My bs guess is he was in over his head with too many demands.
No way. It's a scandal. They wouldn't show him the door in the middle of the school year...just weeks after the start of the year...if it was a run of the mill situation. Something has happened. Thank God we have the Zizzo Group to lead us through these things.
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Some sort of impropriety could be possible, but wouldn't the Board then cut him loose here and now?
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Zizzo Group? Nothing for them to promote. This will be 1984 Memory Holed.
Fr. Pilarz? We do not talk about Fr. Pilarz. There was no Fr. Pilarz. He was never at MU, and any recollection of that is false.
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Some sort of impropriety could be possible, but wouldn't the Board then cut him loose here and now?
That's a good question, but I think publicly cutting him loose immediately would make it appear as if it's a dire situation. But the reality is, getting rid of him in two and a half months is essentially telling him to get lost. There is no way he's making any decisions through the end of the semester. He's beyond a lame duck at this point. He's persona non grata. Letting him stay through the semester is for appearances only.
If this was a purely fundraising problem they could work on that. Hire somebody to sit beneath him that's better with alumni. Send him to training classes, etc. At the very least they'd tell him he needs to get his act together on that front in the next couple years. There is no way they'd fire him mid year after less than 2 years on the job.
One more thing...the release of this announcement on a Friday night is a hack move. The days of Friday night news getting buried is 1970s stuff. They did this thinking nobody would notice, which is a joke.
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Next time, lets not go shopping in Scranton.
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Next time, lets not go shopping in Scranton.
What about New Orleans or tiny Belmont Abbey? People have to come up through the ranks
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No way. It's a scandal. They wouldn't show him the door in the middle of the school year...just weeks after the start of the year...if it was a run of the mill situation. Something has happened. Thank God we have the Zizzo Group to lead us through these things.
Maybe, but I have a hard time believing if it was a scandal of some kind that MU would allow him to stay on board....especially if it directly involved him. MU would take so much grief for that, and rightly so. I'm thinking its more along the lines not a good fit, fundraising, philosophical differences with the board, etc.
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That's a good question, but I think publicly cutting him loose immediately would make it appear as if it's a dire situation. But the reality is, getting rid of him in two and a half months is essentially telling him to get lost. There is no way he's making any decisions through the end of the semester. He's beyond a lame duck at this point. He's persona non grata. Letting him stay through the semester is for appearances only.
If this was a purely fundraising problem they could work on that. Hire somebody to sit beneath him that's better with alumni. Send him to training classes, etc. At the very least they'd tell him he needs to get his act together on that front in the next couple years. There is no way they'd fire him mid year after less than 2 years on the job.
One more thing...the release of this announcement on a Friday night is a hack move. The days of Friday night news getting buried is 1970s stuff. They did this thinking nobody would notice, which is a joke.
Sounds about right to me. Thankfully, it's obviously not too dire a situation, as you point out.
The release of this info on a Friday night is indeed a bit suspect. Reminds of when S&P downgraded the US credit rating. Did so on a Friday night so that it would have less of an effect on the markets.
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That's a good question, but I think publicly cutting him loose immediately would make it appear as if it's a dire situation. But the reality is, getting rid of him in two and a half months is essentially telling him to get lost. There is no way he's making any decisions through the end of the semester. He's beyond a lame duck at this point. He's persona non grata. Letting him stay through the semester is for appearances only.
If this was a purely fundraising problem they could work on that. Hire somebody to sit beneath him that's better with alumni. Send him to training classes, etc. At the very least they'd tell him he needs to get his act together on that front in the next couple years. There is no way they'd fire him mid year after less than 2 years on the job.
One more thing...the release of this announcement on a Friday night is a hack move. The days of Friday night news getting buried is 1970s stuff. They did this thinking nobody would notice, which is a joke.
+1 everything here is so spot on
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"How do we minimize this, make it not sound like a dire situation?"
"Well, we could keep him around for the next 90 days, that make it seem less dire. Meanwhile, his boxes are on the curb."
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Any idea who would be serving as an interim president?
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Any idea who would be serving as an interim president?
Al Haig?
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I read some comments on an inability fund raise. My understanding was that it was one of his strengths. A the university of scranton, he did a great job at a very low profile school. Interesting development. The fact he's staying through the end of semester more than likely means it's not a scandal/. I think it was due to disagreement on future path of school.
http://www.marquette.edu/financeoffice/documents/MUFY12Audit.pdf
Contributions are down from $54 million in 2011 to $43 million in 2012.
A 20% drop in contributions has to be somewhat disturbing. Keep in mind that this data is through June 30 2012--the board surely knows what the 2013 results are. There may well be a further drop not public yet.
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Fr. Naus?
No McGarrity on 10N of Schroeder.
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No McGarrity on 10N of Schroeder.
Naus was on 10N during my two years (on 10S)...'79 and '80.
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http://www.marquette.edu/financeoffice/documents/MUFY12Audit.pdf
Contributions are down from $54 million in 2011 to $43 million in 2012.
A 20% drop in contributions has to be somewhat disturbing. Keep in mind that this data is through June 30 2012--the board surely knows what the 2013 results are. There may well be a further drop not public yet.
If these are gross numbers, comparing one year to the next is worthless. One or two large donations that are earmarked for a particular project could totally skew the numbers. It would be more meaningful to compare fundraising goals vs. actual results.
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No McGarrity on 10N of Schroeder.
We had Father Andy Thon in our building
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Any idea who would be serving as an interim president?
That decision will be up to the BOT. No guarantee that one will be named.
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We had Father Andy Thon in our building
He lived in McCromick in the middle 90's.
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Just curious, but do any other Jesuit schools have a lay president? I know Fordham is Jesuit, but I think they actually have a lay president or some other lay feature that makes them not quite as Jesuit as the rest.
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Just curious, but do any other Jesuit schools have a lay president? I know Fordham is Jesuit, but I think they actually have a lay president or some other lay feature that makes them not quite as Jesuit as the rest.
Georgetown.
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Just curious, but do any other Jesuit schools have a lay president? I know Fordham is Jesuit, but I think they actually have a lay president or some other lay feature that makes them not quite as Jesuit as the rest.
Georgetown.
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If these are gross numbers, comparing one year to the next is worthless. One or two large donations that are earmarked for a particular project could totally skew the numbers. It would be more meaningful to compare fundraising goals vs. actual results.
I agree that it is hard to compare these numbers, but it is possible that the board was seeing a trend and wanted to fix things before their was a problem.
I believe MU's last capital campaign ended in 2005-2006. If so, they are likely about to start a new one soon. You never want to start a capital campaign with a president you aren't sure about (on the fundraising side). It is possible the board wanted to move in the direction of a better fundraiser to prepare for a coming capital campaign.
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Unless the new guy brings back the Warrior nickname, who cares who any of the old or new MU presidents are. They all suck!
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Georgetown.
Gonzaga also has a layperson. As does Layola Marymount, Detroit-Mercy, St. Peter's in NJ, and Canisius and Le Moyne in New York State.
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All joking aside, I would assume something not good is going on, so a pray is probably in order.
Modus operandi for the board.
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No way. It's a scandal.
A few facts please??
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No way. It's a scandal. They wouldn't show him the door in the middle of the school year...just weeks after the start of the year...if it was a run of the mill situation. Something has happened. Thank God we have the Zizzo Group to lead us through these things.
how does keeping him around (if it's a scandal) protect anyone? It would reflect poorly on the university to do anything but remove him of his duties immediately.
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I will note that even if it is because "of a scandal" it doesn't necessarily mean it is something that is a big deal. As a president of a university, there are higher expectations of appearance/behavior.
I know of a University president who was recently forced to step down immediately (meaning 2-week notice type of thing), because a close family member had died and was having a hard time dealing with it. He ended up having a few too many drinks in a public place.
Something perfectly reasonable for your average person, but as a University President, unacceptable behavior.
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Georgetown.
Which just received a $100 million donation from Frank McCourt.
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Which just received a $100 million donation from Frank McCourt.
A beloved individual here in the Los Angeles area.
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One down. One to go?
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One down. One to go?
Let's hope not...everyone needs a boss...not a rubber stamp
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Let's hope not...everyone needs a boss...not a rubber stamp
i can get you a poll to show the majority want LW out as well...
but in all seriousness...at this point (not knowing who the replacement will be) does this have any effect on buzz?
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May be a layperson...
http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/next-marquette-president-may-not-be-lay-person-b99103491z1-224727492.html
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Let's hope not...everyone needs a boss...not a rubber stamp
Everyone needs a boss? 9.2 million self employed Americans would beg to differ.
Buzz, though, does need A boss - thought why it should be THAT boss is beyond me.
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Who knows? It's not lack of fundraising capacity. Pilarz did well at Scranton. It's been years since the Magis Campaign and is commonly believed that University Advancement has grown stagnant and staff-heavy for the $$ it currently brings in. The Office of the President got rid of Julie Tolan, who served as VP of UA for years. The new guy, whom I know personally, is top notch and has a track record for running successful, efficient operations. (That said, I met Tolan years go and had high regard for her, too, back then.")
If I were a betting man, this is not because of anything scandalous. Any university keeping a president on once a scandal has come to light is simply asking for it, and i hope to God the MU board isn't that stupid. I guess the board could have come to the understanding that Pilarz is no Wild and wants a change, but that is remote and Pilarz seems at least solid. More than anything, it sounds like the board it torqued because they wish Pilarz would not have put his hat in the ring if he was having doubts about what he wanted to do. Now, they have to go through another search.
I would imagine Pilarz's departure is either because of a personal health issue or because of a "crisis" of vocation. (Probably the latter.) If it is the former, being circumspect about the facts is due to a desire to maintain his privacy. If it is the latter, there is a good chance it is about his sexuality--either he is gay and wants to come out and live a more honest life or is straight and wants to pursue a relationship with a woman. This would account for the bit about the consideration he has given to his ministry over the past three years.
Anyway, my two cents.
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Perhaps it's simply because he is an east coast guy and wants to go back to his roots? Or, as he alludes, he would rather teach than be an administrator? Or a combo of both?
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i can get you a poll to show the majority want LW out as well...
but in all seriousness...at this point (not knowing who the replacement will be) does this have any effect on buzz?
I can show you a relationship that most that are in that poll with that view have their heads either so far up one coach's arse or in the sand (either way, doesn't matter)....but yes, let's see that SCIENTIFIC poll. ;D At least on this particular topic. Do you not remember the folks here that said Buzz should have no boss, no administration oversite. WOW.
Does it have any effect on Buzz....whenever a new boss is hired it can have an effect. No one knows for sure until new person is hired. Seems pretty obvious. Wait and see. Maybe the new President will want to make us more like SLU. :P
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Everyone needs a boss? 9.2 million self employed Americans would beg to differ.
Buzz, though, does need A boss - thought why it should be THAT boss is beyond me.
You don't think they have a boss? LOL. "They didn't build that......"
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more interested in if anyone really has any insight on the relationship between buzz and pilarz...
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more interested in if anyone really has any insight on the relationship between buzz and pilarz...
I guess that really does not matter much now.
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You don't think they have a boss? LOL. "They didn't build that......"
Well, there are 800,000 less than there were when the "they didn't build it" team took over but I don't think self employment/entrepreneurship is dead. You do?
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Well, there are 800,000 less than there were when the "they didn't build it" team took over but I don't think self employment/entrepreneurship is dead. You do?
LT...I sure as hell hope not, but they aren't making it any easier these days.
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I guess that really does not matter much now.
maybe. buzz and father wild had a great relationship, and his retirement was almost a guarantee that his replacement wouldn't have the same level of relationship he and buzz had. it seems to me like this is a good thing for buzz if any of the rumors of the last few years are true. my thought is pilarz and lw had a connection similar to wild and buzz as they "hired" the respective ad/coach. someone new comes in, and if lw really is a prick, buzz isn't dealing with the guy who hired him.
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Who knows? It's not lack of fundraising capacity. Pilarz did well at Scranton. It's been years since the Magis Campaign and is commonly believed that University Advancement has grown stagnant and staff-heavy for the $$ it currently brings in. The Office of the President got rid of Julie Tolan, who served as VP of UA for years. The new guy, whom I know personally, is top notch and has a track record for running successful, efficient operations. (That said, I met Tolan years go and had high regard for her, too, back then.")
If I were a betting man, this is not because of anything scandalous. Any university keeping a president on once a scandal has come to light is simply asking for it, and i hope to God the MU board isn't that stupid. I guess the board could have come to the understanding that Pilarz is no Wild and wants a change, but that is remote and Pilarz seems at least solid. More than anything, it sounds like the board it torqued because they wish Pilarz would not have put his hat in the ring if he was having doubts about what he wanted to do. Now, they have to go through another search.
I would imagine Pilarz's departure is either because of a personal health issue or because of a "crisis" of vocation. (Probably the latter.) If it is the former, being circumspect about the facts is due to a desire to maintain his privacy. If it is the latter, there is a good chance it is about his sexuality--either he is gay and wants to come out and live a more honest life or is straight and wants to pursue a relationship with a woman. This would account for the bit about the consideration he has given to his ministry over the past three years.
Anyway, my two cents.
Great first post. Welcome.
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I can show you a relationship that most that are in that poll with that view have their heads either so far up one coach's arse or in the sand (either way, doesn't matter)....but yes, let's see that SCIENTIFIC poll. ;D At least on this particular topic. Do you not remember the folks here that said Buzz should have no boss, no administration oversite. WOW.
Does it have any effect on Buzz....whenever a new boss is hired it can have an effect. No one knows for sure until new person is hired. Seems pretty obvious. Wait and see. Maybe the new President will want to make us more like SLU. :P
Stop making crap up.
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Who knows? It's not lack of fundraising capacity. Pilarz did well at Scranton. It's been years since the Magis Campaign and is commonly believed that University Advancement has grown stagnant and staff-heavy for the $$ it currently brings in. The Office of the President got rid of Julie Tolan, who served as VP of UA for years. The new guy, whom I know personally, is top notch and has a track record for running successful, efficient operations. (That said, I met Tolan years go and had high regard for her, too, back then.")
If I were a betting man, this is not because of anything scandalous. Any university keeping a president on once a scandal has come to light is simply asking for it, and i hope to God the MU board isn't that stupid. I guess the board could have come to the understanding that Pilarz is no Wild and wants a change, but that is remote and Pilarz seems at least solid. More than anything, it sounds like the board it torqued because they wish Pilarz would not have put his hat in the ring if he was having doubts about what he wanted to do. Now, they have to go through another search.
I would imagine Pilarz's departure is either because of a personal health issue or because of a "crisis" of vocation. (Probably the latter.) If it is the former, being circumspect about the facts is due to a desire to maintain his privacy. If it is the latter, there is a good chance it is about his sexuality--either he is gay and wants to come out and live a more honest life or is straight and wants to pursue a relationship with a woman. This would account for the bit about the consideration he has given to his ministry over the past three years.
Anyway, my two cents.
I was with you up till the sexuality thing. I find that highly unlikely. A crisis of vocation is likely much more mundane.
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I was with you up till the sexuality thing. I find that highly unlikely. A crisis of vocation is likely much more mundane.
If its about "his sexuality" that constitutes a gargantuan scandal...gay or straight.
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Great first post. Welcome.
Which part was your favorite? "Good chance ... he is gay and wants to come out and live a more honest life"
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I heard from a reliable source that Fr. Pilarz failed in his duty to get bigeast.org up and running earlier this summer. Because of this he is no longer considered fit to lead.
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Stop making crap up.
Actually, in Chico's defense, he's not exactly making that up.
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I'm not one of the Chico's haters, but Jeez, Chico, this is a new low for you - a Liz Warren reference. It's tough enough living in this liberal bastion of the People's Republic of Massachusetts - please, I beg you, no more quotes from our distinguished Native American senator on Scoop - Scoop is a refuge.
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If its about "his sexuality" that constitutes a gargantuan scandal...gay or straight.
Pilarz is a 54 year old Jesuit. I find it very hard to believe that some new revelation about his sexuality is driving him to give up his post. If he was a young priest or a diocesan priest I would consider it possible. Ten years of formation and ten years of being a president at another university would have likely uncovered it already. There may be a scandal or something, but this surely isn't it.
a Liz Warren reference...
Gotta love Elizabeth Warren. She is a great consumer advocate. The R's in the Senate wouldn't confirm her for CFPB so she took one of their seats.
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Pilarz is a 54 year old Jesuit. I find it very hard to believe that some new revelation about his sexuality is driving him to give up his post. If he was a young priest or a diocesan priest I would consider it possible. Ten years of formation and ten years of being a president at another university would have likely uncovered it already. There may be a scandal or something, but this surely isn't it.
Gotta love Elizabeth Warren. She is a great consumer advocate. The R's in the Senate wouldn't confirm her for CFPB so she took one of their seats.
No one cares about your political opinions. This is supposed to be a safe zone.
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Pilarz is a 54 year old Jesuit. I find it very hard to believe that some new revelation about his sexuality is driving him to give up his post. If he was a young priest or a diocesan priest I would consider it possible. Ten years of formation and ten years of being a president at another university would have likely uncovered it already. There may be a scandal or something, but this surely isn't it.
I'm not saying its definitely a sexual issue, but the fact that he's 54 has zero to do with anything. And the fact that nothing has been uncovered has zero to do with anything. Maybe he found a girlfriend? Maybe he thinks he might be gay? Plenty of people have these things happen at 54...just not Jesuit university presidents, which is why it'd be scandalous.
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Maybe he thinks he might be gay? Plenty of people have these things happen at 54...just not Jesuit university presidents, which is why it'd be scandalous.
Um, pretty sure it's okay to be gay and be a priest. You just have to be celibate (just like if you were straight).
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Actually, in Chico's defense, he's not exactly making that up.
Seriously? What "folks" were calling for no AD or no boss? I follow along pretty well, but I always feel likle Chicos takes one idiotic comment and then tries to paint everyone on that side of the argument with that.
Were there really more than one or two posters calling for no AD/Boss? I mean, like, a real poster.
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The whole thinkin' about it for 3 years doesn't add up since he's only been here for 2 years. I'm sure it'll all sort out in due time.
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Seriously? What "folks" were calling for no AD or no boss? I follow along pretty well, but I always feel likle Chicos takes one idiotic comment and then tries to paint everyone on that side of the argument with that.
Were there really more than one or two posters calling for no AD/Boss? I mean, like, a real poster.
No one was saying no AD or president, but I remember some calling for effectively no oversight. It probably was only 1-2, but that doesn't mean he's quite painting everyone with that brush.
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Um, pretty sure it's okay to be gay and be a priest. You just have to be celibate (just like if you were straight).
Um...what is your point? That the possibility (remote as it may be) that our university's president resigned because he's a latent homosexual wouldn't be scandalous or noteworthy? Let me be the first to tell you that, if this were the case, it'd be front page news across the country.
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No one was saying no AD or president, but I remember some calling for effectively no oversight. It probably was only 1-2, but that doesn't mean he's quite painting everyone with that brush.
Okay, that's probably accurate ("effectively"). But saying "the folks" would not communicate 1-2 to me, but more like a group of some relevant size.
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I can show you a relationship that most that are in that poll with that view have their heads either so far up one coach's arse or in the sand (either way, doesn't matter)....but yes, let's see that SCIENTIFIC poll. ;D At least on this particular topic. Do you not remember the folks here that said Buzz should have no boss, no administration oversite. WOW.
I can make you aware of a similar relationship whereby someone here still has their head up Tom Crean's arse, while simultaneously having their head buried in the sand with regard to how good Buzz Williams is.
WOW.
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Um...what is your point? That the possibility (remote as it may be) that our university's president resigned because he's a latent homosexual wouldn't be scandalous or noteworthy? Let me be the first to tell you that, if this were the case, it'd be front page news across the country.
My point is that being a latent homosexual wouldn't be a reason for him to resign.
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Seriously? What "folks" were calling for no AD or no boss? I follow along pretty well, but I always feel likle Chicos takes one idiotic comment and then tries to paint everyone on that side of the argument with that.
Were there really more than one or two posters calling for no AD/Boss? I mean, like, a real poster.
Well, there's a reason I wrote Chico's "wasn't exactly" making that up.
No, there was no widespread push for no AD.
There was, though, a small minority who argued that Buzz, as MU's most prominent and public figure, should essentially be allowed to run his program however he sees fit without interference or input from others (and certainly not an ex-Domer football player or priest).
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The whole thinkin' about it for 3 years doesn't add up since he's only been here for 2 years. I'm sure it'll all sort out in due time.
It does if he wants to get out of academia and pursue some other field related to his vocation. Maybe he wants to go work in a refugee camp or go on a mission.
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Why would he take the MU gig if his thoughts were foggy?
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Stop making crap up.
Making stuff up? Would you like me to post the examples where people said he didn't need oversight, didn't need a boss and my favorite one, athletics should be on their own and not have to worry about the university at all.....left to his own devices and get out of his way and leave him alone and he can supervise himself.
I wasn't making ANYTHING up....and though I appreciate Pakuni's step in, I would quibble with the "not exactly" as well. Not a damn thing I made up...that's truly how some people feel around here. Like it's a separate entity from the university, a minor leagues where he shouldn't have to answer to anyone.
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If MU will consider a lay person, and their is a current search for a new Provost, how about someone with connections and good at fund raising. A former politician is typically who takes these position (see Mitch Daniels now at Purdue). So take Tommy Thompson now. Yeah he's old but he'll have say in picking the new Provost (who really runs the University) and hopefully he sticks at MU long enough for Scott Walker to take over.
If not Thompson because you cannot see past political affiliation (as it should not matter) then how about Herb Kohl ... Or does the lay person have to be catholic?
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I'm not one of the Chico's haters, but Jeez, Chico, this is a new low for you - a Liz Warren reference. It's tough enough living in this liberal bastion of the People's Republic of Massachusetts - please, I beg you, no more quotes from our distinguished Native American senator on Scoop - Scoop is a refuge.
Liz Warren reference....uhm....where?
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I can make you aware of a similar relationship whereby someone here still has their head up Tom Crean's arse, while simultaneously having their head buried in the sand with regard to how good Buzz Williams is.
WOW.
Have at it. Never in my life have I said that Crean or anyone else should be a coach without oversight, without a boss and should basically be "left alone" to his own devices....unlike what has happened here by some posters when the whole LW Pilarz stuff was going on. That's what I was referencing. Never.
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Why would he take the MU gig if his thoughts were foggy?
While he should have known, it may be he thought the job would be more service to the students than setting up a new athletic conference and other secular responsibilities.
A lot of people in his age range start to look at their life and decide they have last chance to do what they want.
Or it could be one of the other things speculated here. I have not seen anything other than rumor and supposition (like my comment).
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Tommy would pose well for pictures with a cocktail in hand. Not sure Herb can actually spell Marquette correctly.
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Stop making crap up.
Here you go Aughnanure.....yup, making stuff up ::)
"So you don't see a problem with an administration dictating to the Head basketball Coach how to run his program? Not being an alum, I could personally care less about anything that happens with the school in reality. I care about the success of the basketball program, period."
-Mu Guru
"I do want a coach who's bigger than the university."
-PRN
"There would be less paranoia if the current AD let Buzz run the school and gave him a long leash. Instead the new AD has tried to shackle/reign Buzz in, in some areas...which is messing with happy."
-Ners
"Larry has to do his job, but he also has to let Buzz do his without looking over his shoulder. No one in their right mind can do a job well if someone is always looking over their shoulder and looking for what is wrong, instead of what is right."
-Hoops12
"Your exactly right. It is time for MU to part ways with Larry Williams. For those of you who dont follow SEC Sports, Nick Saban committed 29!! Yes 29!! Violations in the past year and I dont think the AD is suspending him for any games or firing any assistant coaches. "
-Kenosha Warrior
Etc, etc Plenty more, but I'm not going to waste my time. In summary....let Buzz do his thing, no oversight needed. Could not care less about what happens with the school, it's all about the program....Alabama committed 29 violations and he wasn't suspended (as if Alabama should be our beacon of light), don't look over his shoulder (oversight), long leash needed, etc, etc, etc.
This just in, athletics is PART of the university, not ABOVE the university. Athletics exists BECAUSE of the university, not the other way around. If done right, they can bolster each other. If done wrong, they can cause a lot of poor perceptions of the school and\or the program.
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In before the lock!
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Here you go Auganhere.....making stuff up ::)
"So you don't see a problem with an administration dictating to the Head basketball Coach how to run his program? Not being an alum, I could personally care less about anything that happens with the school in reality. I care about the success of the basketball program, period."
-Mu Guru
"I do want a coach who's bigger than the university."
-PRN
"There would be less paranoia if the current AD let Buzz run the school and gave him a long leash. Instead the new AD has tried to shackle/reign Buzz in, in some areas...which is messing with happy."
-Ners
"Larry has to do his job, but he also has to let Buzz do his without looking over his shoulder. No one in their right mind can do a job well if someone is always looking over their shoulder and looking for what is wrong, instead of what is right."
-Hoops12
"Your exactly right. It is time for MU to part ways with Larry Williams. For those of you who dont follow SEC Sports, Nick Saban committed 29!! Yes 29!! Violations in the past year and I dont think the AD is suspending him for any games or firing any assistant coaches. "
-Kenosha Warrior
Etc, etc Plenty more, but I'm not going to waste my time. In summary....let Buzz do his thing, no oversight needed. Could not care less about what happens with the school, it's all about the program....Alabama committed 29 violations and he wasn't suspended (as if Alabama should be our beacon of light), don't look over his shoulder (oversight), long leash needed, etc, etc, etc.
This just in, athletics is PART of the university, not ABOVE the university. Athletics exists BECAUSE of the university, not the other way around. If done right, they can bolster each other. If done wrong, they can cause a lot of poor perceptions of the school and\or the program.
Please provide the thread from which you quoted me on the above - there's also this thing called context...and like the remark you chose to quote of mine...I'm sure taken alone and out of context....it distorts the full reality of what was being communicated....
But, I stand by my position, that the comments Larry Williams made to the Journal Sentinel about Buzz after the West Virginia dance episode were totally idiotic and unnecessary - and if you are going to have that kind of "leadership," at the helm of your athletic department - you'd be better off with out it...
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But, I stand by my position, that the comments Larry Williams made to the Journal Sentinel about Buzz after the West Virginia dance episode were totally idiotic and unnecessary - and if you are going to have that kind of "leadership," at the helm of your athletic department - you'd be better off with out it...
Yes, I remember you got an email from Buzz on it. ::)
Context is key, in fact the rest of your quote from that post I left out, but here's the link. It's ironic that you should mention context is key, as that was my exact response to you when you posted it. http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36527.msg461631#msg461631
And your subsequent response when most people here said you were wrong. http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36527.msg462396#msg462396
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I think I read in one of the JS articles that the layperson has to be a Catholic
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I think I read in one of the JS articles that the layperson has to be a Catholic
American Catholic (Catholic light) or Catholic? :P
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Tommy would pose well for pictures with a cocktail in hand. Not sure Herb can actually spell Marquette correctly.
If Tommy is holding those cocktails at receptions where billionaires are sticking their name on buildings at MU, good for him.
If Herb can get billionaires to stick their name on billionaires, he can spell it "MU"
I think I read in one of the JS articles that the layperson has to be a Catholic
If so, then scratch Herb of the list as he is Jewish.
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Herb can convert.
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No one cares about your political opinions. This is supposed to be a safe zone.
I wasn't the one who brought up her name out of no where to express how much I disliked her, but yeah thanks for the kind words.
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Herb can convert.
If the money is right ...
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I'm not saying its definitely a sexual issue, but the fact that he's 54 has zero to do with anything. And the fact that nothing has been uncovered has zero to do with anything. Maybe he found a girlfriend? Maybe he thinks he might be gay? Plenty of people have these things happen at 54...just not Jesuit university presidents, which is why it'd be scandalous.
True, people experience major changes to how they understand their sexuality at 54 and beyond, but I really think the Jesuit formation process shouldn't be overlooked. I think this is something they focus on a lot more than diocesan priests. I know of a couple of gay, celibate Jesuits. I guess he could fall into that category, someone found out and was upset about it, and this prompted his resignation. However, I find this highly unlikely.
I hope we don't hear anything more about this and that the next Pres. stays for a long tenure.
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Here you go Aughnanure.....yup, making stuff up ::)
"So you don't see a problem with an administration dictating to the Head basketball Coach how to run his program? Not being an alum, I could personally care less about anything that happens with the school in reality. I care about the success of the basketball program, period."
-Mu Guru
"I do want a coach who's bigger than the university."
-PRN
"There would be less paranoia if the current AD let Buzz run the school and gave him a long leash. Instead the new AD has tried to shackle/reign Buzz in, in some areas...which is messing with happy."
-Ners
"Larry has to do his job, but he also has to let Buzz do his without looking over his shoulder. No one in their right mind can do a job well if someone is always looking over their shoulder and looking for what is wrong, instead of what is right."
-Hoops12
"Your exactly right. It is time for MU to part ways with Larry Williams. For those of you who dont follow SEC Sports, Nick Saban committed 29!! Yes 29!! Violations in the past year and I dont think the AD is suspending him for any games or firing any assistant coaches. "
-Kenosha Warrior
Etc, etc Plenty more, but I'm not going to waste my time. In summary....let Buzz do his thing, no oversight needed. Could not care less about what happens with the school, it's all about the program....Alabama committed 29 violations and he wasn't suspended (as if Alabama should be our beacon of light), don't look over his shoulder (oversight), long leash needed, etc, etc, etc.
This just in, athletics is PART of the university, not ABOVE the university. Athletics exists BECAUSE of the university, not the other way around. If done right, they can bolster each other. If done wrong, they can cause a lot of poor perceptions of the school and\or the program.
Only ONE of those actually calls for no Boss/AD. Do not confuse wanting to get rid of LW with wanting to get of the AD all-together. As always, you exaggerate others' comments. Being cynical about NCAA violations does not = advocating for the removal of the entire AD position/administration.
But please, waste more of our time more.
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Do any of you actually think Pilarz stepping down has anything to do with Buzz/Hoops?
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Nah
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Do any of you actually think Pilarz stepping down has anything to do with Buzz/Hoops?
No
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Only ONE of those actually calls for no Boss/AD. Do not confuse wanting to get rid of LW with wanting to get of the AD all-together. As always, you exaggerate others' comments. Being cynical about NCAA violations does not = advocating for the removal of the entire AD position/administration.
But please, waste more of our time more.
Come on...that's even more decisive than I expected CBB's response to be. Guru indicates that the administration setting rules for Buzz is a problem and all that matters to him is the basketball program. PRN wants Buzz to be bigger (and I assume take priority over the mission of) the University. Ners' comment needs no elaboration from me. Hoops feels Buzz shouldn't have any oversight. And as I read KW's post, the problem isn't just Larry's authority, but that Buzz can't get away with more while guys like Saban are skating.
It may not be a majority, but it's a decent faction of the active posters here. CBB pretty well substantiated his point.
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Herb can convert.
to what.....
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If the money is right ...
You guys that think we need an arena on campus? Well, I suppose there could be two Kohl Centers in Wisconsin....
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I wish there was a 'yawn' emoticon; I would use it every time a threat went off topic... So, guess I would use it in every thread.
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to what.....
A turnip
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It's always disconcerting to come to this site and read this crap... :(
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Trying to stay on topic ....
The President is a figurehead. He is the guy (or gal) that makes the key phone call, and closes the deal with the VERY wealthy to put their name on the side of buildings. He does this because he typical already has a relationship with them, and has for years, because he already traffics in those circles. The Provost actually runs the school (and MU is also looking for that position too). The University President helps pick the Provost.
That is why a politician is a good fit, and why many University presidents are former politicians. Scott Walker and/or Paul Ryan would be very good fits for MU. Problem is neither of them are leaving their current jobs.
So Herb Kohl, Tommy Thompson, Russ Feingold, Bud Selig, or another Milwaukee/Wisconsin person that would live on Milwaukee that can get the rich and powerful to do things for MU is a good fit (i.e., the next President needs to have enough cachet that if crime becomes a problem he can get the Governor and/or Mayor of Milwaukee off the toilet at 7AM and demand they "do something," and they would by lunchtime).
So who else fits this job description? I would argue that a CEO (like Joerres of Manpower or Falk of Kimberly Clark) are NOT good fits. CEOs like to run things, not use their influence to make rain.
Thoughts?
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Trying to stay on topic ....
The President is a figurehead. He is the guy (or gal) that makes the key phone call, and closes the deal with the VERY wealthy to put their name on the side of buildings. He does this because he typical already has a relationship with them, and has for years, because he already traffics in those circles. The Provost actually runs the school (and MU is also looking for that position too). The University President helps pick the Provost.
That is why a politician is a good fit, and why many University presidents are former politicians. Scott Walker and/or Paul Ryan would be very good fits for MU. Problem is neither of them are leaving their current jobs.
So Herb Kohl, Tommy Thompson, Russ Feingold, Bud Selig, or another Milwaukee/Wisconsin person that would live on Milwaukee that can get the rich and powerful to do things for MU is a good fit (i.e., the next President needs to have enough cachet that if crime becomes a problem he can get the Governor and/or Mayor of Milwaukee off the toilet at 7AM and demand they "do something," and they would by lunchtime).
So who else fits this job description? I would argue that a CEO (like Joerres of Manpower or Falk of Kimberly Clark) are NOT good fits. CEOs like to run things, not use their influence to make rain.
Thoughts?
I'm not positive, but I know to be a provost one has to have a PhD. I would assume the same for the president (where being a priest is considered PhD equivalent). So Walker/Ryan would be ineligible. Of your list only Feingold and Thompson would be eligible.
I think Feingold would be an apt choice. He is a wisconsin native, has Ivy league connections and is well respected.
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I'm not positive, but I know to be a provost one has to have a PhD. I would assume the same for the president (where being a priest is considered PhD equivalent). So Walker/Ryan would be ineligible. Of your list only Feingold and Thompson would be eligible.
I think Feingold would be an apt choice. He is a Wisconsin native, has Ivy league connections and is well respected.
The PhD must be an MU rule because Mitch Daniel, President of Purdue (and former Governor of Indiana) does not have a PhD. Anyone else know about the PhD rule? Added: Bart Giamatti was the President of Yale from 1977 to 1986 did not have a PhD (and became baseball commissioner after Yale) and Benno Schmidt Jr was Yale's President from 1986 to 1992 also did not have a PhD.
Also, some have noted that MU has another rule, the President must be Catholic (is this the case?). That would rule out Kohl, Selig and Feingold as they are Jewish.
Again what is the job of a University President? My answer is a rain maker both is raising money, attracting attention and getting powerful people to say yes. Who best has these skills? Answer: a politician ... party affiliation is not important.
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Again what is the job of a University President? My answer is a rain maker both is raising money, attracting attention and getting powerful people to say yes. Who best has these skills? Answer: a politician ... party affiliation is not important.
How about somewhat with this profile? MU alum, attorney, former FCC commissioner, adjunct professor at Georgetown and Catholic U. Not a politician, but political and non-political connections galore.
http://transition.fcc.gov/commissioners/previous/abernathy/biography.html
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The PhD must be an MU rule because Mitch Daniel, President of Purdue (and former Governor of Indiana) does not have a PhD. Anyone else know about the PhD rule? Added: Bart Giamatti was the President of Yale from 1977 to 1986 and did not have a PhD (and became baseball commissioner after Yale) Benno Schmidt Jr was Yale's President from 1986 to 1992 and did not have a PhD.
Also, some have noted that MU has another rule, the President must be Catholic (is this the case?). That would rule out Kohl, Selig and Feingold as they are Jewish.
Again what is the job of a University President? My answer is a rain maker both is raising money, attracting attention and getting powerful people to say yes. Who best has these skills? Answer: a politician ... party affiliation is not important.
don't know about a phd, but to have a president that doesn't even have a undergraduate degree would be embarrassing. i also think politics do matter. mitch daniel is more toward the center than most, in a much more republican state...political affiliation/past political practice would certainly matter.
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Many may look down on Oklahoma but a high percentage of the state's public university presidents are former elected officials. David Boren, a Rhodes Scholar, former governor and U.S. Senator heads up the University of Oklahoma and has done an outstanding job on all fronts. Looking back in history Columbia University picked a guy named Dwight Eisenhower in the late 1940s. He raised a record amount of money for the school and gave a much needed new perspective to that academic environment.
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How about somewhat with this profile? MU alum, attorney, former FCC commissioner, adjunct professor at Georgetown and Catholic U. Not a politician, but political and non-political connections galore.
http://transition.fcc.gov/commissioners/previous/abernathy/biography.html
Abernathy is a female magna cum laud graduate from MU - you know, the FIRST Catholic university to admit women into degree seeking programs. We could do worse.
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How about somewhat with this profile? MU alum, attorney, former FCC commissioner, adjunct professor at Georgetown and Catholic U. Not a politician, but political and non-political connections galore.
http://transition.fcc.gov/commissioners/previous/abernathy/biography.html
This is good, will she move to Milwaukee and does she have the connections and cachet to get rich people to put their name on the side buildings?
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A politician would be a terrible choice. They would be polarizing and would alienate half of the alumni and donor base. I don't care which side of the aisle you are on, but if Scott Walker, Paul Ryan or Russ Feingold was chosen, you would piss off half of our support base.
And while you are correct that they are mostly the fundraiser and figurehead, that makes choosing someone who will not piss people even more important.
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A politician would be a terrible choice. They would be polarizing and would alienate half of the alumni and donor base. I don't care which side of the aisle you are on, but if Scott Walker, Paul Ryan or Russ Feingold was chosen, you would piss off half of our support base.
And while you are correct that they are mostly the fundraiser and figurehead, that makes choosing someone who will not piss people even more important.
Wrong, they only piss off people that cannot seriously donate to a University. Very Rich deal with politicians on both sides effectively.
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Long History of Politicians Becoming University Heads
http://www.edmediacommons.org/forum/topics/long-history-of-politicians-becoming-university-heads
In a surprise move, Department of Homeland Security chief Janet Napolitano is being named as the next president of the University of California university system.
The news was first delivered by the Los Angeles Times, with White House officials confirming her departure shortly after.
The new hire puts the former Arizona governor and U.S. Attorney at the helm of arguably the nation’s premier system of higher learning, tasked with leading its 10 institutions and affiliate research centers.
In citing some of the reasons for her selection, the Los Angeles Times story summarized UC officials who noted her background “will help UC administer its federal energy and nuclear weapons labs and aid its federally funded research in medicine and other areas.”
Napolitano continues a long line of public officials who have transitioned to leading posts in higher learning. A website, Political Graveyard, maintains a useful, though incomplete, list of former politicians and top public servants who’ve taken over the reins (or assumed a figurehead position) at postsecondary institutions over the years.
Big names include Robert Gates, who served as Secretary of Defense from 2006 to 2011 under two presidents after holding other top positions in previous administrations, including Director of Central Intelligence under President George Herbert Walker Bush. Gates was president of Texas A&M from 2002 to 2006, before being named Secretary of Defense. His tenure “earned high marks for his bold vision, sharp intellect and consistent, consensus-building leadership” according to the Houston Chronicle. Gates now holds the ceremonial post of Chancellor of the College of William and Mary.
Rebecca Blank, is the incoming chancellor of University of Wisconsin-Madison. She holds a doctorate from Massachusetts Institute of Technology and served as acting Secretary of Commerce under president Obama.
David Boren served as governor and later senator for the state of Oklahoma from 1975 to 1994. He is currently president of the University of Oklahoma.
Erskine Bowles, former chief of staff for Bill Clinton, was president of the University of North Carolina system from 2005 to 2010. He has recently returned to the political arena, joining forces with a retired Republican senator to create a budget model to reduce the nation’s debt.
Current governor of Iowa Terry Branstad was president of Des Moines University from 2003 to 2009 after his first go as the Hawkeye state’s gubernatorial pick from 1983 to 1999.
Former Indiana governor and head of President George W. Bush’s Office of Management and Budget Mitch Daniels was named president of Purdue University in 2012.
General Dwight D. Eisenhower, before embarking on his successful presidential campaigns but after leading Allied troops in World War II, was president of Columbia University. His tenure as university president was interrupted by his appointment to the role of Supreme Commander of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).
Current president of Hobart and William Smith Colleges Mark Gearan is another Clinton alum, having served as a deputy chief of staff and director of the Peace Corps during the president from Arkansas’ administration.
M. Peter McPherson was president of Michigan State University until 2004. McPherson had served in President Gerald Ford's White House.
Donna Edna Shalala, another Badger, was president Clinton’s Secretary of Health and Human Services for eight years after serving as chancellor of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. After her role at HHS, Shalala became president of University of Miami in Florida.
Larry Summers was president of Harvard University from 2001 to 2006. Previously, he served as Secretary of the Treasury for Bill Clinton and was the chief economist at the World Bank. After his stint at Harvard, which ended with a resignation following a string of controversies, Summers was director of the National Economic Council for President Obama.
A few politicians who came short have also served as university heads. Bruce Benson, who unsuccessfully ran for governor of Colorado in 1994, has served as president of the University of Colorado since 2008. Unrelated but still humorous and therefore worth noting: during his run for the governor’s seat he took a jab at his opponent for being born on a less patriotic day than he. The incumbent, Democrat Roy Romer, was born on Halloween. Benson was born on the Fourth of July. Voters picked the candy candidate.
Numerous university heads with political backgrounds have assumed positions in Texas, according to Kevin Kiley of Inside Higher Ed.
Some blasts from the past? The co-founder of first president of Cornell University, Andrew Dickson White, held several diplomatic posts, including Ambassador to Germany from 1897 to 1902.
Woodrow Wilson? Try Professor Wilson. Before running the state of New Jersey and steering the country through World War I as president of the U.S., the German-speaking professor of political science led Princeton University as the institution's president from 1902 to 2010. He likely has a lock on the honor of being the only presidential candidate to face a real threat from the "Bull Moose" and Socialist parties.
And Abraham Baldwin, who fought in the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War, served as a senator from Georgia in the nation’s early years, and helped found and lead what later became the University of Georgia.
Special thanks to Kevin Kiley, Robert Kelchen, Ben Wildavsky, Kim Clark and Rachel Fishman for helping me compile this list.
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Here is a list of over 200 politicians that have served as University Presidents throughout American History.
http://politicalgraveyard.com/occ/univpres.html
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The PhD must be an MU rule because Mitch Daniel, President of Purdue (and former Governor of Indiana) does not have a PhD. Anyone else know about the PhD rule? Added: Bart Giamatti was the President of Yale from 1977 to 1986 did not have a PhD (and became baseball commissioner after Yale) and Benno Schmidt Jr was Yale's President from 1986 to 1992 also did not have a PhD.
Also, some have noted that MU has another rule, the President must be Catholic (is this the case?). That would rule out Kohl, Selig and Feingold as they are Jewish.
Again what is the job of a University President? My answer is a rain maker both is raising money, attracting attention and getting powerful people to say yes. Who best has these skills? Answer: a politician ... party affiliation is not important.
So the "president" is really a PR position? (in your mind)
I'm not saying that's wrong, but I don't think that's how Jesuit Universities approach it.
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So the "president" is really a PR position? (in your mind)
I'm not saying that's wrong, but I don't think that's how Jesuit Universities approach it.
Yes, the President does not "run" the university. The Chancellor and/or Provost do that. The president
* raises money
* attracts attention to the University
* gets rich people to say yes to University wants and needs.
This is why politicians are a natural fit. See Madison, Blank was a Politician, as was Shalala
If the Jesuits think the President runs the University (i.e., regularly meet with facilities management to discuss the number of clogged toilets in McCormick) then they think a CEO would be a better fit. History shows very few CEOS are University Presidents?
So, what do the Jesuits think the Chancellor and/or Provost do?
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Yes, the President does not "run" the university. The Chancellor and/or Provost do that. The president
* raises money
* attracts attention to the University
* gets rich people to say yes to University wants and needs.
This is why politicians are a natural fit. See Madison, Blank was a Politician, as was Shalala
And, those are ostensibly the reasons that Fr. P was probably not a good fit @ MU...? Scranton was more his level of comfort? Obviously his comments mirror that as he would rather do something else ( and, also be back East...? ).
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And, those are ostensibly the reasons that Fr. P was probably not a good fit @ MU...? Scranton was more his level of comfort? Obviously his comments mirror that as he would rather do something else ( and, also be back East...? ).
+1 ... after 8 pages we finally get to why Fr. P might be leaving, as opposed to the silliness in previous pages.
Another thought.
University President is equivalent to a private sector the Chairman of the Board/Lead Director
Chancellor/Provost is equivalent to a private sector CEO
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Yes, the President does not "run" the university. The Chancellor and/or Provost do that. The president
* raises money
* attracts attention to the University
* gets rich people to say yes to University wants and needs.
This is why politicians are a natural fit. See Madison, Blank was a Politician, as was Shalala
If the Jesuits think the President runs the University (i.e., regularly meet with facilities management to discuss the number of clogged toilets in McCormick) then they think a CEO would be a better fit. History shows very few CEOS are University Presidents?
So, what do the Jesuits think the Chancellor and/or Provost do?
Take another look at your list. These are almost all public schools, and none of them are Jesuit. In most state university systems, the President is in charge of administration of the entire system, not just one university. Chancellors run the individual universities. That is how the UW system operates.
The Jesuit model operates a little differently. The president is actually more involved. We don't have a chancellor. The president of a Jesuit university is effectively both President and Chancellor. True, we have a provost, but that is not really responsible for the running of the entire university. The provost is the main academic administrator, they set curricula and hire deans. But the President is not just involved in PR and fundraising, as you suggest (while it is certainly a large part of his job). The President sets the overall direction for the university. He is involved in real estate decisions, expansions, building projects, hiring of administrators, long-term strategic planning, updating and enforcing university policies, serving as a liason with the city of Milwaukee, serving as a liason with the Society of Jesus, etc. I don't think you really understand everything a Marquette University president does. As I said, a politician would be a terrible choice at a university like Marquette. It should be a Jesuit, and if that is not possible, a Catholic layperson who has an understanding of Jesuit mission and Marquette's unique role in society, who is also able to fundraise effectively.
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I think Feingold would be an apt choice. He is a wisconsin native, has Ivy league connections and is well respected.
No thanks...donations going elsewhere if he is the choice
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Yes, the President does not "run" the university. The Chancellor and/or Provost do that. The president
* raises money
* attracts attention to the University
* gets rich people to say yes to University wants and needs.
This is why politicians are a natural fit. See Madison, Blank was a Politician, as was Shalala
If the Jesuits think the President runs the University (i.e., regularly meet with facilities management to discuss the number of clogged toilets in McCormick) then they think a CEO would be a better fit. History shows very few CEOS are University Presidents?
So, what do the Jesuits think the Chancellor and/or Provost do?
I don't think the President gets into the minutia of clogged toilets, but it's my impression that he is involved in high level decision making. He's not just a PR and revenue generator.
Now, with this said, maybe it's time for MU to evolve the position(s). Maybe there needs to be a high level fundraiser/PR type, and a more COO-type. I don't know the academic world that well, so honestly, I don't know if that is the correct move.
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The PhD must be an MU rule because Mitch Daniel, President of Purdue (and former Governor of Indiana) does not have a PhD. Anyone else know about the PhD rule? Added: Bart Giamatti was the President of Yale from 1977 to 1986 did not have a PhD (and became baseball commissioner after Yale) and Benno Schmidt Jr was Yale's President from 1986 to 1992 also did not have a PhD.
Also, some have noted that MU has another rule, the President must be Catholic (is this the case?). That would rule out Kohl, Selig and Feingold as they are Jewish.
Again what is the job of a University President? My answer is a rain maker both is raising money, attracting attention and getting powerful people to say yes. Who best has these skills? Answer: a politician ... party affiliation is not important.
MU may not require a PhD. Many Universities do. I believe almost all require it for a Provost position, may not be required of the Presidents as their job is mostly PR related and fundraising.
If I was MU, I would go for the politically/business connected president and a young gunner/up and comer as the provost. They would bring both discipline/experience and energy to the top two positions.
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I don't think the President gets into the minutia of clogged toilets, but it's my impression that he is involved in high level decision making. He's not just a PR and revenue generator.
Now, with this said, maybe it's time for MU to evolve the position(s). Maybe there needs to be a high level fundraiser/PR type, and a more COO-type. I don't know the academic world that well, so honestly, I don't know if that is the correct move.
I'm sure you're the only one on this board without the expertise to properly evaluate this
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A politician would be a terrible choice. They would be polarizing and would alienate half of the alumni and donor base. I don't care which side of the aisle you are on, but if Scott Walker, Paul Ryan or Russ Feingold was chosen, you would piss off half of our support base.
And while you are correct that they are mostly the fundraiser and figurehead, that makes choosing someone who will not piss people even more important.
Hiring a politician would piss off ideological jugheads. Those who discern the person from their politics would be fine.
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May be a layperson...
http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/next-marquette-president-may-not-be-lay-person-b99103491z1-224727492.html
Heres the link. University bylaws require that the president must be Catholic, and preference is given to the Society of Jesus.
This seems to rule out many of the abovementioned politicians.
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How about someone who understands that Students are Customers?
Wouldn't that be a welcome change?
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Theories as to his departure circulating campus this morning:
1. He was not a good fund raiser – and introverted
2. He did not interact well with the Jesuit community
3. He was not liked by the students and faculty
4. He did not attend the MU basketball games regularly – actually very infrequently
5. the above could all be horse manure
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4. He did not attend the MU basketball games regularly – actually very infrequently
He must not have liked the mockery when the students refused to change the "Fa-ther Wi-ld!" chant.
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This guy makes some sever changes to campus and the way the school is run (getting rid of the FFP Program) then quits. What a coward.
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Hiring a politician would piss off ideological jugheads. Those who discern the person from their politics would be fine.
I'm Catholic and Marquette is a Catholic institution....I'd have a hard time having a President of the university like the one suggested, Feinstein Feingold, who supported a number of laws, policies, etc that are the antithesis of Catholic doctrine.
So while your statement may be correct, in that particular example that I responded to is a result of what the man believes which is at polar opposites of Catholicism. So, in some case, you can't separate them due to the fact we are Catholic university. If this was a public university, HUGE difference. It's not, it is Catholic.
Edit: Feingold instead of Feinstein (Feinstein is my wonderful Senator, Feingold was Wisconsin's wonderful Senator)
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Theories as to his departure circulating campus this morning:
1. He was not a good fund raiser – and introverted
2. He did not interact well with the Jesuit community
3. He was not liked by the students and faculty
4. He did not attend the MU basketball games regularly – actually very infrequently
5. the above could all be horse manure
One could argue 1 through 4 are symptoms of an introvert who wilted under the spotlight. I'm very intrigued by the person who posted above regarding a president who treats the students as customers. Having had some inside looks at how MU is run thanks to classes and contacts through the MBA program, I have to say there is so much waste it's disgusting. There is a real opportunity to be the university that acts as an agent of change for higher education in general. We can deliver the same value, if not better, at a much lower cost which would allow the university to keep pricing to students level, god forbid, even lower them potentially. Additionally, the university could tie it's "rankings" to outcomes of students performance....where and how many have jobs, median incomes, and humanitarian works.
MU wants to move up in the rankings, I don't see how you can do that doing the same thing as everyone else. We aren't going to be Georgetown, we don't have the brand recognition and you won't get it through "me too products". We need to move outside of the traditional mold of higher education and I think a new president is the perfect opportunity to do that.
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I'm Catholic and Marquette is a Catholic institution....I'd have a hard time having a President of the university like the one suggested, Feinstein, who supported a number of laws, policies, etc that are the antithesis of Catholic doctrine.
So while your statement may be correct, in that particular example that I responded to is a result of what the man believes which is at polar opposites of Catholicism. So, in some case, you can't separate them due to the fact we are Catholic university. If this was a public university, HUGE difference. It's not, it is Catholic.
I can actually understand this contention and although I think Feingold would be a good University President, your points indicate legitimately why he would be a bad fit for MU.
Chico's, I'll support your run for MU president if you bring me on as a Provost.
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No thanks...donations going elsewhere if he is the choice
Isn't he already running Marquette? Sometimes, I can't tell what the difference would be.
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How about someone who understands that Students are Customers?
Wouldn't that be a welcome change?
Yes!
In his last year, Fr. Raynor met with me after I wrote an editorial in the MU Tribune critical of his lack of visibility on campus. He mentioned that fundraising was his primary responsibility. However he stepped down six months later.
I think a high visibility, high energy, strong personality is important for the job (like an MU BBall coach). Helps draw attention and separates us from the pack. Love him or hate him, but Gordon Gee is a great protoype.
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One could argue 1 through 4 are symptoms of an introvert who wilted under the spotlight. I'm very intrigued by the person who posted above regarding a president who treats the students as customers. Having had some inside looks at how MU is run thanks to classes and contacts through the MBA program, I have to say there is so much waste it's disgusting. There is a real opportunity to be the university that acts as an agent of change for higher education in general. We can deliver the same value, if not better, at a much lower cost which would allow the university to keep pricing to students level, god forbid, even lower them potentially. Additionally, the university could tie it's "rankings" to outcomes of students performance....where and how many have jobs, median incomes, and humanitarian works.
MU wants to move up in the rankings, I don't see how you can do that doing the same thing as everyone else. We aren't going to be Georgetown, we don't have the brand recognition and you won't get it through "me too products". We need to move outside of the traditional mold of higher education and I think a new president is the perfect opportunity to do that.
+ 1 million.
Unfortunately, I suspect the academic infrastructure has never been the most efficient (not really designed to be).
It will take some serious vision and growing pains for MU to step out and do something different.
With this said, with great risk comes great opportunity.
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+ 1 million.
Unfortunately, I suspect the academic infrastructure has never been the most efficient (not really designed to be).
It will take some serious vision and growing pains for MU to step out and do something different.
With this said, with great risk comes great opportunity.
Yup. As long as you have the concept of tenure, how could it ever be?
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Take another look at your list. These are almost all public schools, and none of them are Jesuit. In most state university systems, the President is in charge of administration of the entire system, not just one university. Chancellors run the individual universities. That is how the UW system operates.
The Jesuit model operates a little differently. The president is actually more involved. We don't have a chancellor. The president of a Jesuit university is effectively both President and Chancellor. True, we have a provost, but that is not really responsible for the running of the entire university. The provost is the main academic administrator, they set curricula and hire deans. But the President is not just involved in PR and fundraising, as you suggest (while it is certainly a large part of his job). The President sets the overall direction for the university. He is involved in real estate decisions, expansions, building projects, hiring of administrators, long-term strategic planning, updating and enforcing university policies, serving as a liason with the city of Milwaukee, serving as a liason with the Society of Jesus, etc. I don't think you really understand everything a Marquette University president does. As I said, a politician would be a terrible choice at a university like Marquette. It should be a Jesuit, and if that is not possible, a Catholic layperson who has an understanding of Jesuit mission and Marquette's unique role in society, who is also able to fundraise effectively.
Correct, almost ALL are public universities, but the ivies are not, they are non-religious private universities.
If the Jesuits want the President to wear too many hats, they are apt to be disappointed. One person has to do what best for the university and fund raise (the president) and another has to run it (chancellor/provost). You job description :
"involved in real estate decisions? You want him talk to real estate brokers and reviewing building plans with developers? Or does someone else do that he meets well heeled people when their private plans lands at Mitchell about putting their name on it?
You really want the President to hire all the administrators? You want him spending his time reviewing resumes and negotiating pay? Or, would you rather have him to be the last interview of the person that has already been picked for the job, giving him a broad veto only.
updating and enforcing university policies? You want him riding around with public safety? I thought the Deans enforce policy. Yes he can sit in on high level meetings (which are infrequent) in setting policy. But does he have to get involved in a discussion about .1 or .08 alcohol limit?
a liason with the city of Milwaukee. You want him talking to local representatives about campustown garbage pickup? Or do you only want him to get involved at high levels when necessary? Like a problem develops and they University needs something from the City. So, he only liason's with the Mayor and talks to the Mayor when the issues rise to that level.
serving as a liason with the Society of Jesus. What if he is a layperson?
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All of these things you describe are very important. But a University like MU is a big and complicated place. More than one person needs to so all these things. More than 2 might be needed for what you describe.
That said, I would argue you accurately described Father P's job description and he's leaving after two years. What you describe is a problem. You're asking the President to do too much. So, if you're correct, it needs to change.
Similar in business is the Chairman of the Board and CEO are two positions. It is not good in business when someone does both. I would argue the same is true for a university, not good to have one person be the equivalent of Chairman and CEO.
So. before we talk about who should be the next President, I guess a description of the job, and limitations of the job (what the President does and does not do) is in order.
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This guy makes some sever changes to campus and the way the school is run (getting rid of the FFP Program) then quits. What a coward.
I don't know the details of this, but if FFP is gone why is it still on the MU site under a 2013 date?
http://www.marquette.edu/ffp/
Sounds to me like they changed it, but didn't get rid of it. Also sounds like they changed it to be more fundamentally fair about who is admitted, which I applaud them for. http://marquettetribune.org/2012/12/06/news/ffp/
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One could argue 1 through 4 are symptoms of an introvert who wilted under the spotlight. I'm very intrigued by the person who posted above regarding a president who treats the students as customers. Having had some inside looks at how MU is run thanks to classes and contacts through the MBA program, I have to say there is so much waste it's disgusting. There is a real opportunity to be the university that acts as an agent of change for higher education in general. We can deliver the same value, if not better, at a much lower cost which would allow the university to keep pricing to students level, god forbid, even lower them potentially. Additionally, the university could tie it's "rankings" to outcomes of students performance....where and how many have jobs, median incomes, and humanitarian works.
MU wants to move up in the rankings, I don't see how you can do that doing the same thing as everyone else. We aren't going to be Georgetown, we don't have the brand recognition and you won't get it through "me too products". We need to move outside of the traditional mold of higher education and I think a new president is the perfect opportunity to do that.
+1
That is why having the job of Provost open as well is a blessing, not a curse. This gives the University the change to pick two people with the same vision and purpose at once to change the University for the better. Two people that are not tied to the current bloated bureaucracy and inefficiencies that can change them, not defend them.
Picking one person that has to wear too many hats will not accomplish this goal.
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I'm Catholic and Marquette is a Catholic institution....I'd have a hard time having a President of the university like the one suggested, Feinstein Feingold, who supported a number of laws, policies, etc that are the antithesis of Catholic doctrine.
So while your statement may be correct, in that particular example that I responded to is a result of what the man believes which is at polar opposites of Catholicism. So, in some case, you can't separate them due to the fact we are Catholic university. If this was a public university, HUGE difference. It's not, it is Catholic.
Edit: Feingold instead of Feinstein (Feinstein is my wonderful Senator, Feingold was Wisconsin's wonderful Senator)
Of course recent comments from the pope, who is Jesuit, on the surface make him sound more like Feingold & Feinstein.
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Of course recent comments from the pope, who is Jesuit, on the surface make him sound more like Feingold & Feinstein.
Not really...he issued additional clarifying comments the very next day, of course the media didn't pick those up....shocking. At the end of the day, I doubt MU is ever going to have a President that supports abortion, which is very much not Feingold & Feinstein.
This is why a politician does matter truly in the debate for a Catholic university...it gets down the core beliefs of Catholicism. You would have such a backlash it would be incredible. http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Russell_Feingold_Abortion.htm
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Of course recent comments from the pope, who is Jesuit, on the surface make him sound more like Feingold & Feinstein.
Not to get off topic, but I LOVE Pope Francis. I already think he's amazing, and I'm excited and proud of the Catholic Church.
He's the real deal... I don't need 5 years to know that ;)
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Yup. As long as you have the concept of tenure, how could it ever be?
You didnt state it explicitly so ill give you the benefit of the doubt, but youre not suggesting we dump tenure to achieve greater efficiency are you?
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Not really...he issued additional clarifying comments the very next day, of course the media didn't pick those up....shocking. At the end of the day, I doubt MU is ever going to have a President that supports abortion, which is very much not Feingold & Feinstein.
This is why a politician does matter truly in the debate for a Catholic university...it gets down the core beliefs of Catholicism. You would have such a backlash it would be incredible. http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Russell_Feingold_Abortion.htm
Hmmm, I wonder why....
They didn't pick up on them because they didn't come from his mouth. Its Vatican PR covering their ass. Did this after his atheist comments too. Not shocking whatsoever.
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Theories as to his departure circulating campus this morning:
1. He was not a good fund raiser – and introverted
2. He did not interact well with the Jesuit community
3. He was not liked by the students and faculty
4. He did not attend the MU basketball games regularly – actually very infrequently
5. the above could all be horse manure
All of this should've/would've surfaced in the search process...although I did recently discover he's not a sports fan at all. This is contrary to statements he made after arriving on campus concerning going to games and his brother in laws level of excitement. And if he's not well liked by students, what do we make of people claiming he is such a great teacher?
There is something else here, I'm sure of it.
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Not to get off topic, but I LOVE Pope Francis. I already think he's amazing, and I'm excited and proud of the Catholic Church.
He's the real deal... I don't need 5 years to know that ;)
+ a lot
Though I love the notion that some think the Pope is some kind of raging liberal.
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Not to get off topic, but I LOVE Pope Francis. I already think he's amazing, and I'm excited and proud of the Catholic Church.
He's the real deal... I don't need 5 years to know that ;)
+10000
Good things are happening, folks.
And no, I'm not talking about changing Church teaching on abortion. I'm talking about how we approach the rest of society, by actually engaging with it, rather than condemning it from some high and mighty golden throne.
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Not to get off topic, but I LOVE Pope Francis. I already think he's amazing, and I'm excited and proud of the Catholic Church.
He's the real deal... I don't need 5 years to know that ;)
I agree, and I'm not even Catholic. I guess that's also part of how he's immensely popular.
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+10000
Good things are happening, folks.
And no, I'm not talking about changing Church teaching on abortion. I'm talking about how we approach the rest of society, by actually engaging with it, rather than condemning it from some high and mighty golden throne.
Yep, the past posture truly alienates people. The Church hierarchy needs to realize that the Church is not alone in this world and needs to work with others rather than preaching down to others.
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Yep, the past posture truly alienates people. The Church hierarchy needs to realize that the Church is not alone in this world and needs to work with others rather than preaching down to others.
Need that in Washington too (sorry about the politics).
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Francis is a Catholic in whole. He isn't changing doctrine. Sins are still sins. He is reminding Catholics and the world that it is also a sin to ignore the poor, the hungry, the unemployed. That money isn't a god and that the pursuit of it is not something to be admired. He is attempting to remind us that the message of the church is God's love and forgiveness for each and every one of us, and not an arbitrary scoreboard of sins. We are all sinners and it our job as Catholics to forgive other's sins in the same manner in which we ask God to forgive ours. We are sinners. There are many sins in this world. God loves us anyway. And we should love sinners anyway.
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You didnt state it explicitly so ill give you the benefit of the doubt, but youre not suggesting we dump tenure to achieve greater efficiency are you?
The notion of tenure is obsolete. You would need to believe that every person granted tenure would stay on top of there field, not get burned out, lazy, etc.
The dead wood has to be cleared out periodically or it affects the entire organization and Education is a prime example of this at all levels.
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The notion of tenure is obsolete. You would need to believe that every person granted tenure would stay on top of there field, not get burned out, lazy, etc.
The dead wood has to be cleared out periodically or it affects the entire organization and Education is a prime example of this at all levels.
Tenure doesn't prevent schools from dismissing teachers/professors for poor work performance. That's a complete myth.
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How many tenured faculty have been replaced in the last year.... or ten years.
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How many tenured faculty have been replaced in the last year.... or ten years.
That's kind of a vague question.
Nationally? At Marquette? At the university level or across all educational levels?
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How about MU but I doubt if quantitatively it is much different nationally (if you exclude those removed by forces outside the University or for nonperformance related reasons such as inappropriate behavior with a student, etc)
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How about MU but I doubt if quantitatively it is much different nationally (if you exclude those removed by forces outside the University or for nonperformance related reasons such as inappropriate behavior with a student, etc)
For some reason I don't have instant access to Marquette's personnel files.
According to the NEA, though, about 2 percent of tenured faculty are dismissed annually.
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Theories as to his departure circulating campus this morning:
1. He was not a good fund raiser – and introverted
2. He did not interact well with the Jesuit community
3. He was not liked by the students and faculty
4. He did not attend the MU basketball games regularly – actually very infrequently
5. the above could all be horse manure
6. He got "Chucked"?
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Not really...he issued additional clarifying comments the very next day, of course the media didn't pick those up....shocking. At the end of the day, I doubt MU is ever going to have a President that supports abortion, which is very much not Feingold & Feinstein.
This is why a politician does matter truly in the debate for a Catholic university...it gets down the core beliefs of Catholicism. You would have such a backlash it would be incredible. http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Russell_Feingold_Abortion.htm
I hope you are not naïve enough to believe what you just wrote. Notre Dame has had no problem having pro-choice commencement speakers - it was only when Obama was chosen that they decided to "stand up for their beliefs".
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I hope you are not naïve enough to believe what you just wrote. Notre Dame has had no problem having pro-choice commencement speakers - it was only when Obama was chosen that they decided to "stand up for their beliefs".
Uhm, I think we were talking about leading the university as the president, not having someone come in and speak for an hour to graduates. I fail to see how those to are comparable. MU has pro choice professors, for that matter. I don't think the MU community would go for a pro-choice president leading the university.
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Additionally, the university could tie it's "rankings" to outcomes of students performance....where and how many have jobs, median incomes, and humanitarian works.
How do you plan to measure humanitarian works? If we're tying rankings to outcomes, we need to have a clear understanding of outcomes.
Also, income is a tricky measure. Different careers pay different amounts, and many are completely happy with pursuing a lower-paying one.
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One person has to do what best for the university and fund raise (the president) and another has to run it (chancellor/provost). You job description :
"involved in real estate decisions? You want him talk to real estate brokers and reviewing building plans with developers? Or does someone else do that he meets well heeled people when their private plans lands at Mitchell about putting their name on it?
You really want the President to hire all the administrators? You want him spending his time reviewing resumes and negotiating pay? Or, would you rather have him to be the last interview of the person that has already been picked for the job, giving him a broad veto only.
updating and enforcing university policies? You want him riding around with public safety? I thought the Deans enforce policy. Yes he can sit in on high level meetings (which are infrequent) in setting policy. But does he have to get involved in a discussion about .1 or .08 alcohol limit?
a liason with the city of Milwaukee. You want him talking to local representatives about campustown garbage pickup? Or do you only want him to get involved at high levels when necessary? Like a problem develops and they University needs something from the City. So, he only liason's with the Mayor and talks to the Mayor when the issues rise to that level.
serving as a liason with the Society of Jesus. What if he is a layperson?
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All of these things you describe are very important. But a University like MU is a big and complicated place. More than one person needs to so all these things. More than 2 might be needed for what you describe.
That's why the provost is one of nine people who report directly to the President at Marquette. http://www.marquette.edu/president/images/ULC-ORG-CHART.png A provost runs the academic part of a university. There's a whole lot more to do than just that. The President's job is to worry about the top-level things in every area, including the academic part.
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Yes!
In his last year, Fr. Raynor met with me after I wrote an editorial in the MU Tribune critical of his lack of visibility on campus. He mentioned that fundraising was his primary responsibility. However he stepped down six months later.
I think a high visibility, high energy, strong personality is important for the job (like an MU BBall coach). Helps draw attention and separates us from the pack. Love him or hate him, but Gordon Gee is a great protoype.
I remember Fr. Raynor to be pretty visible (78-82). May have been age creeping up on him as he was closer to retirement. He was the prototype President for his time.
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The notion of tenure is certainly not obsolete. Tenured professors can (and apparently 2% do) get fired. They can get fired for things like stealing from the university, inappropriate contact with a student, sexual harassment, and probably more common, not meeting the very basics of the contract (eg, a professor simply does not show up to teach any of his classes).
There are indeed professors (from my experience, a small minority) who get tenure and then almost immediately stop researching and do the bare minimum of teaching needed to make sure they don't get reprimanded.
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Trying to stay on topic ....
The President is a figurehead. He is the guy (or gal) that makes the key phone call, and closes the deal with the VERY wealthy to put their name on the side of buildings. He does this because he typical already has a relationship with them, and has for years, because he already traffics in those circles. The Provost actually runs the school (and MU is also looking for that position too). The University President helps pick the Provost.
That is why a politician is a good fit, and why many University presidents are former politicians. Scott Walker and/or Paul Ryan would be very good fits for MU. Problem is neither of them are leaving their current jobs.
So Herb Kohl, Tommy Thompson, Russ Feingold, Bud Selig, or another Milwaukee/Wisconsin person that would live on Milwaukee that can get the rich and powerful to do things for MU is a good fit (i.e., the next President needs to have enough cachet that if crime becomes a problem he can get the Governor and/or Mayor of Milwaukee off the toilet at 7AM and demand they "do something," and they would by lunchtime).
So who else fits this job description? I would argue that a CEO (like Joerres of Manpower or Falk of Kimberly Clark) are NOT good fits. CEOs like to run things, not use their influence to make rain.
Thoughts?
Presidents are *not* figureheads. Not by any stretch. Do you think Wild was a figurehead?
And a politician *can* be a good fit for a university, but not because they are a politician. But because they are visionary and can get things done. I don't think any of the ones you mention really fit that description. Not to mention they would never hire Walker since he doesn't have a bachelor's degree much less a terminal degree.
Feingold might be something, but he is likely the wrong political fit. He might be more interested in the vacant UW System job anyway.
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That's why the provost is one of nine people who report directly to the President at Marquette. http://www.marquette.edu/president/images/ULC-ORG-CHART.png A provost runs the academic part of a university. There's a whole lot more to do than just that. The President's job is to worry about the top-level things in every area, including the academic part.
+1
I see the university situation as pretty analogous to our executive branch of government. The president has all types of advisors in addition to a chief of staff. The provost, as I've always understood it, is similar to the role of the chief of staff in the White House.
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Feingold might be something, but he is likely the wrong political fit. He might be more interested in the vacant UW System job anyway.
Of the ones mentioned, Feingold is probably the best candidate, but I'd guess he'd be too polarizing in Wisconsin. Might be better suited to look at politicians from outside Wisconsin if the political bent is the direction they go.
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+1
I see the university situation as pretty analogous to our executive branch of government. The president has all types of advisors in addition to a chief of staff. The provost, as I've always understood it, is similar to the role of the chief of staff in the White House.
Ehh...not quite.
A Provost is more like a corporate Chief Operating Officer.
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The notion of tenure is certainly not obsolete. Tenured professors can (and apparently 2% do) get fired. They can get fired for things like stealing from the university, inappropriate contact with a student, sexual harassment, and probably more common, not meeting the very basics of the contract (eg, a professor simply does not show up to teach any of his classes).
There are indeed professors (from my experience, a small minority) who get tenure and then almost immediately stop researching and do the bare minimum of teaching needed to make sure they don't get reprimanded.
Agreed.
The irony here is that the people who complain most about tenure - political conservatives - are the people most likely to benefit from it, at least at the post-secondary level. Tenure protects a right-leaning professor from being dismissed because his political views run counter to the more prevalent (i.e. left-leaning) opinions within the faculty.
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Tenure exists primarily to insulate faculty from hair-trigger, reactionary, politically motivated, personally motivated firings by administrators who are new, easily offended, or have an agenda. It protects them from the big donor who was offended by a book/paper/commentary/political position and threatens the university if the professor isn't fired. God bless tenure and the protection of academic freedom.
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The notion of tenure is obsolete. You would need to believe that every person granted tenure would stay on top of there field, not get burned out, lazy, etc.
The dead wood has to be cleared out periodically or it affects the entire organization and Education is a prime example of this at all levels.
Get rid of tenure and prepare to double faculty salaries. The notion of job security and academic freedom (without fear of reprisal) is what attracts brilliant individuals into academia. They often turn down double the salary from industry for these benefits. If you remove the benefits, they will need to compete with industry for salary.
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Theories as to his departure circulating campus this morning:
1. He was not a good fund raiser – and introverted
2. He did not interact well with the Jesuit community
3. He was not liked by the students and faculty
4. He did not attend the MU basketball games regularly – actually very infrequently
5. the above could all be horse manure
Well I can tell you for sure that number 3 is completely true. A lot of my friends were rejoicing when they heard that he was stepping down. Not really well liked by students for one reason or another.
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This is a complete guess with no inside knowledge whatsoever.
He simply was a poor fit for many of the reasons stated. Many benefactors complained and/or cut off their funding. The BOT cut their losses and forced him out.
His stated reason is complete bullsh*t. No one starts an academic year and decides three weeks later they need a new calling.
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Agreed.
The irony here is that the people who complain most about tenure - political conservatives - are the people most likely to benefit from it, at least at the post-secondary level. Tenure protects a right-leaning professor from being dismissed because his political views run counter to the more prevalent (i.e. left-leaning) opinions within the faculty.
What is this creature you talk of....does such a creature exist? Sounds like the Hydra or other mythological creature. ;)
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Get rid of tenure and prepare to double faculty salaries. The notion of job security and academic freedom (without fear of reprisal) is what attracts brilliant individuals into academia. They often turn down double the salary from industry for these benefits. If you remove the benefits, they will need to compete with industry for salary.
Yes, it also preserves less than brilliant ones, as well. Sort of like a teachers union...the good ones are great, the bad ones can't get fired often preventing the good (young ones) a chance. Goes both ways.
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This is a complete guess with no inside knowledge whatsoever.
He simply was a poor fit for many of the reasons stated. Many benefactors complained and/or cut off their funding. The BOT cut their losses and forced him out.
His stated reason is complete bullsh*t. No one starts an academic year and decides three weeks later they need a new calling.
If it was a poor fit, the BOT would've recognized this earlier and either let him go over the summer or waited until the end of the school year. In other words, why is it a poor fit now? The suddenness of the departure is what screams that something is amiss.
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How do you plan to measure humanitarian works? If we're tying rankings to outcomes, we need to have a clear understanding of outcomes.
Also, income is a tricky measure. Different careers pay different amounts, and many are completely happy with pursuing a lower-paying one.
Joys of big data on all of this.
MU could offer a website where potential students can pick career field and geographical location and then MU could report out both it's alumni information as well as the averages in the field.
Humanitarian works could be counted in community service hours, dollars donated, etc.
To gather all this data you would need the alumni base supplying their information, which is a potential issue, but if you frame it as a positive way to support and be proud of the university I bet you'd get a lot of support. Plus depending on the information you collect it could be a good networking and collaboration tool for alumni.
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If it was a poor fit, the BOT would've recognized this earlier and either let him go over the summer or waited until the end of the school year. In other words, why is it a poor fit now? The suddenness of the departure is what screams that something is amiss.
It doesn't have to be anything seedy....perhaps he pissed off a big donor in the last 3 weeks and the BOT said enough, we've got basketball season coming up we can't let this go any longer. Something about a camel and straw or something.
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You didnt state it explicitly so ill give you the benefit of the doubt, but youre not suggesting we dump tenure to achieve greater efficiency are you?
No, not saying that. I totally get tenure, and the reason why collegiate system adopted it. Like many things, the good it does also promotes a number of poor consequences, as well. Some great examples of it just last week if someone wants to look in the news. While tenure promotes academic freedom, protections, gives security, it also preserves some that have no business being tenured and the ability to remove them at that point is difficult, not impossible, but difficult.
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(Guys, start another thread on the Pope & Church. Further discussion here will be .. I dunno, deleted or something.)
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I find all of those "reasons" on that list to be .. way too mundane for asking a President to leave, this quickly, at this point in the semester .. not to mention the Friday night release.
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Presidents are *not* figureheads. Not by any stretch. Do you think Wild was a figurehead?
And a politician *can* be a good fit for a university, but not because they are a politician. But because they are visionary and can get things done. I don't think any of the ones you mention really fit that description. Not to mention they would never hire Walker since he doesn't have a bachelor's degree much less a terminal degree.
Feingold might be something, but he is likely the wrong political fit. He might be more interested in the vacant UW System job anyway.
I agree with you that Walker would not work as he did not graduate ... Forgot about that.
I used the term "figurehead" and many took it as a degoratory term and said What I was wrong and explained the position largely as I did without that term.
So let me try to day the same thing differently. The president is Not an operating manager, that is done by those under him (her). The President does the most important thing in the university ... Set priorities, raise money Lisbon with the well connected. If you cannot get that right, the operating managers (like the Provost) are largely wasting their time.
Given this job description, a politician can fit this position well.
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I agree with you that Walker would not work as he did not graduate ... Forgot about that.
I used the term "figurehead" and many took it as a degoratory term and said What I was wrong and explained the position largely as I did without that term.
So let me try to day the same thing differently. The president is Not an operating manager, that is done by those under him (her). The President does the most important thing in the university ... Set priorities, raise money Lisbon with the well connected. If you cannot get that right, the operating managers (like the Provost) are largely wasting their time.
Given this job description, a politician can fit this position well.
I don't disagree that a politician *can* fit this position well. But really the type of person that might be even better is someone that has run a federal agency of some sort. That is what Stanford did when they hired Condoleeza Rice. That is what UW has done by hiring the head of the Department of Commerce.
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If it was a poor fit, the BOT would've recognized this earlier and either let him go over the summer or waited until the end of the school year. In other words, why is it a poor fit now? The suddenness of the departure is what screams that something is amiss.
My guess is that it became all too apparent over the summer...after the fiscal year ended. There was probably some contentious meetings in late summer, and he was basically forced out.
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My guess is that it became all too apparent over the summer...after the fiscal year ended. There was probably some contentious meetings in late summer, and he was basically forced out.
Its not like the BOT is known for their efficiency and cohesion of thought
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Its not like the BOT is known for their efficiency and cohesion of thought
And that's not necessarily bad.
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I don't disagree that a politician *can* fit this position well. But really the type of person that might be even better is someone that has run a federal agency of some sort. That is what Stanford did when they hired Condoleeza Rice. That is what UW has done by hiring the head of the Department of Commerce.
Completely agree. Here are two politicians that fit your criteria
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=39814.msg516902#msg516902
How about somewhat with this profile? MU alum, attorney, former FCC commissioner, adjunct professor at Georgetown and Catholic U.
http://transition.fcc.gov/commissioners/previous/abernathy/biography.html
And
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Thompson
Tommy Thompson ... the longest-serving Governor of Wisconsin from 1987 to 2001. During his term as Governor he was the Chairman of AMTRAK, the nation's passenger rail service. He served as the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services from 2001 to 2005. Partner with the law-firm Akin Gump and Chairman of Deloitte's global healthcare practice and has served on the board 22 other organizations.
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Thompson might have been good a decade ago, but he is 72 now. And his Senate campaign was a complete disaster - I mean, he looked and sounded really, really out of touch. I think he would be even more controversial than Feingold would be. (And I think Feingold would be very good if he weren't so liberal which instantly makes him a lightning rod.)
Not sure about Abernathy. Intriguing but not sure she would be interested.
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I find all of those "reasons" on that list to be .. way too mundane for asking a President to leave, this quickly, at this point in the semester .. not to mention the Friday night release.
Here's what I can't understand. Pilarz was on the Marquette board of trustees when he was hired. So the BOT saw this guy up close and personal. Yet, they went with him.
But here's my gut reaction: some of the newer members of the BOT are pretty savvy. They know we need a new Provost, and a new Dean of the B School. It's a bit of a cliche to say "follow the money" but fund raising is on the front burner. You recruit a provost and the first question is "who is my boss?" The BOT wants the right person for the long term before that question is answered.
I don't think it's a scandal, and I don't think it's his health. I think, and again I have no inside information, that's its simply a board that woke up and realized that in 2013 Father Pilarz cannot take the University to the next level from a fund raising standpoint. Cut the cord now, rather than watch the slow bleed.
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I think your last paragraph is right on target Sir Lawrence.
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No, not saying that. I totally get tenure, and the reason why collegiate system adopted it. Like many things, the good it does also promotes a number of poor consequences, as well. Some great examples of it just last week if someone wants to look in the news. While tenure promotes academic freedom, protections, gives security, it also preserves some that have no business being tenured and the ability to remove them at that point is difficult, not impossible, but difficult.
Completely agree. I'm not sure how you value the costs vs the benefits here, but in my opinion, I believe that the benefits (principally academic freedom) outweigh the costs (a few profs who game the system).
To be sure, there are mechanisms in place that incentivize profs to maintain a high level of research once tenure is granted
1) Promotion from associate professor to (full) professor. This promotion is based on teaching, academic service/committees, and research. The respective weights depend on the institution (Research I, Research II, liberal arts, etc). Not only does this title give academics more prestige, which in and of itself is a motivating factor for the types of folks in academia, but it also means a pay bump.
2) Social pressure. If you get tenure and switch to cruise control, you are looked upon by the rest of your department (ie your coworkers) as, well, an arsehole.
3) Sabbaticals. You propose a research project and it gets approved and/or funded, you can sometimes request a sabbatical, which allows you to concentrate solely on research, rather than having to "bother" with teaching and committee appointments. This allows profs to work from home (or Aruba I suppose), depending on the field of research.
Obviously there are those who still abuse the system despite these mechanisms, but from my experience the number of those who slack is a lot lower than many people would expect.
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In my experience, which is over 20 years working in higher education, the number of professors that abuse tenure is way, way, WAY dwarfed by those who continue to produce both research and in the classroom.
I mean, when I was at Marquette, I say that I only really had one tenured professor who mailed it in as a teacher. And that professor (Karel Bicha) published a ton of books on eastern European history.
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Completely agree. I'm not sure how you value the costs vs the benefits here, but in my opinion, I believe that the benefits (principally academic freedom) outweigh the costs (a few profs who game the system).
To be sure, there are mechanisms in place that incentivize profs to maintain a high level of research once tenure is granted
1) Promotion from associate professor to (full) professor. This promotion is based on teaching, academic service/committees, and research. The respective weights depend on the institution (Research I, Research II, liberal arts, etc). Not only does this title give academics more prestige, which in and of itself is a motivating factor for the types of folks in academia, but it also means a pay bump.
2) Social pressure. If you get tenure and switch to cruise control, you are looked upon by the rest of your department (ie your coworkers) as, well, an arsehole.
3) Sabbaticals. You propose a research project and it gets approved and/or funded, you can sometimes request a sabbatical, which allows you to concentrate solely on research, rather than having to "bother" with teaching and committee appointments. This allows profs to work from home (or Aruba I suppose), depending on the field of research.
Obviously there are those who still abuse the system despite these mechanisms, but from my experience the number of those who slack is a lot lower than many people would expect.
This is spot on.
I'll add that some of the professors that some think mail it in, are not doing it intentionally. Securing tenure and then a full professorship is a grueling stressful task. In some cases it flat out destroys an individuals health, leading to a decreased ability to teach and do research. These individuals are extremely embarrassed about the situation, but frankly the amount of money they brought into the University up until that point is sufficient to pay their salary for another 20 years.
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I think, and again I have no inside information, that's its simply a board that woke up and realized that in 2013 Father Pilarz cannot take the University to the next level from a fund raising standpoint. Cut the cord now, rather than watch the slow bleed.
This is a pretty drastic step, though, and this rumor storm is going to be worse than what a slow bleed would have been -- which would have lasted, what, the entirety of a TV season?
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Whatever happened to this guy? Never saw him at MU. Maybe it is best for all if he continues his counseling and search for other apostolic opportunities in this transition. He wasn't around much in public when he had the job...he won't be in transition either.
(http://thetimes-tribune.com/polopoly_fs/1.986018!/image/1742250837.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/1742250837.jpg)
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This is spot on.
I'll add that some of the professors that some think mail it in, are not doing it intentionally. Securing tenure and then a full professorship is a grueling stressful task. In some cases it flat out destroys an individuals health, leading to a decreased ability to teach and do research. These individuals are extremely embarrassed about the situation, but frankly the amount of money they brought into the University up until that point is sufficient to pay their salary for another 20 years.
I work with a guy that headed up a department that brought in incremental about $300 million over the last 5 years but had a so-so 6th year...GONE. He made decent money in those 6 years, but it's a what have you done for me lately world often in corporate America. And to say he went through stress in those 6 years is a mild understatement...guy looked like he aged 25 years trying to hit those numbers.
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This is a complete guess with no inside knowledge whatsoever.
He simply was a poor fit for many of the reasons stated. Many benefactors complained and/or cut off their funding. The BOT cut their losses and forced him out.
His stated reason is complete bullsh*t. No one starts an academic year and decides three weeks later they need a new calling.
Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!!
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Whatever happened to this guy? Never saw him at MU. Maybe it is best for all if he continues his counseling and search for other apostolic opportunities in this transition. He wasn't around much in public when he had the job...he won't be in transition either.
(http://thetimes-tribune.com/polopoly_fs/1.986018!/image/1742250837.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/1742250837.jpg)
Ain't no party like a Scranton party
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Like it or not, tenure is the status quo at US universities. I hope the BOT isn't foolish enough to bring in someone who wants to mess with tenure. Removing or severely altering it would make it extremely difficult to recruit and retain research oriented faculty and the funding that comes with them. The NSF/NIH do not award substantial grants to faculty with little job security.
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For starters, I have not read this entire thread. Got too long, too quickly. But what I have read has mostly been speculation on what kind of scandal is at play or if the BOT decided to vote Pilarz out.
Has anyone considered the fact that maybe Pilarz no longer wanted to be the President? Running a university as large as Marquette is exhausting. And it is commonly known that Pilarz values student interaction and teaching more than anything. Perhaps he just got tired of being in a position he truly didn't enjoy and decided to step down so he could pursue other passions.
I have no inside information. I have had the privilege to speak with Father Scott on several occasions and I am basing my guesses on what I know of him as a person.
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For starters, I have not read this entire thread. Got too long, too quickly. But what I have read has mostly been speculation on what kind of scandal is at play or if the BOT decided to vote Pilarz out.
Has anyone considered the fact that maybe Pilarz no longer wanted to be the President? Running a university as large as Marquette is exhausting. And it is commonly known that Pilarz values student interaction and teaching more than anything. Perhaps he just got tired of being in a position he truly didn't enjoy and decided to step down so he could pursue other passions.
I have no inside information. I have had the privilege to speak with Father Scott on several occasions and I am basing my guesses on what I know of him as a person.
You raise a good point. Pilarz has commented before how much he likes teaching and wanted to teach while President at Marquette. If the fundraising was lackluster, I could see him getting some grief for spending time in the classroom. Maybe he got fed up and asked to teach full time again. He taught full-time at Georgetown, afterall. But its still strange on the timing though. You would think he would choose the end of an academic year to come to such a decision. Even just three full years as president would raise less eyebrows than 2 and a half.
While it would probably be the most boring answer, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pilarz wind up on the English faculty at another Jesuit university come next fall, teaching medieval poetry.
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For starters, I have not read this entire thread. Got too long, too quickly. But what I have read has mostly been speculation on what kind of scandal is at play or if the BOT decided to vote Pilarz out.
Has anyone considered the fact that maybe Pilarz no longer wanted to be the President? Running a university as large as Marquette is exhausting. And it is commonly known that Pilarz values student interaction and teaching more than anything. Perhaps he just got tired of being in a position he truly didn't enjoy and decided to step down so he could pursue other passions.
I have no inside information. I have had the privilege to speak with Father Scott on several occasions and I am basing my guesses on what I know of him as a person.
I have a close friend who went to Georgetown and was pretty tight with Fr. Pilarz back then. I would be surprised if somehow Fr. Pilarz suddenly became "unlikable" by the students. My friend speaks very highly of him.
Now, if he did become unpopular with the students (maybe due to his new authority role), I could see a situation where he wasn't fond of his new career and wanted to go back and do something that had more day to day interaction with the student body (that's how he got his start).
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You raise a good point. Pilarz has commented before how much he likes teaching and wanted to teach while President at Marquette. If the fundraising was lackluster, I could see him getting some grief for spending time in the classroom. Maybe he got fed up and asked to teach full time again. He taught full-time at Georgetown, afterall. But its still strange on the timing though. You would think he would choose the end of an academic year to come to such a decision.
While it would probably be the most boring answer, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pilarz wind up on the English faculty at another Jesuit university come next fall, teaching medieval poetry.
Look, this wasn't voluntary. He didn't decide to leave so he could teach more.
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Look, this wasn't voluntary. He didn't decide to leave so he could teach more.
Not saying it was entirely voluntary. He might have gotten pushed out, but it might have stemmed from his lack of enthusiasm for administration and fundraising when his true passion is teaching.
You put a guy who loves interacting with students and doing research into a stuffy office and tell him to spend his time sucking up to bigwigs, it might not work out. He might lose his passion for the job.
The only question I would still have is you'd think we would have seen warning signs from his time at Scranton. But maybe that's a small enough university he could do both effectively.
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I have a close friend who went to Georgetown and was pretty tight with Fr. Pilarz back then. I would be surprised if somehow Fr. Pilarz suddenly became "unlikable" by the students. My friend speaks very highly of him.
Now, if he did become unpopular with the students (maybe due to his new authority role), I could see a situation where he wasn't fond of his new career and wanted to go back and do something that had more day to day interaction with the student body (that's how he got his start).
Perhaps "unlikable" is the wrong phrase. I think "distant" might be a better one. Perhaps because of the differences between Scranton and MU, in size and in scope, that the students just didn't feel they knew him all that well.
I do know a student that had a one-on-one meeting with him who thought he was plenty likable. He's just not all that easy to know.
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Not saying it was entirely voluntary. He might have gotten pushed out, but it might have stemmed from his lack of enthusiasm for administration and fundraising when his true passion is teaching.
But he was a college president for 8 years before taking the MU job. He knew what he was getting into.
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But he was a college president for 8 years before taking the MU job. He knew what he was getting into.
Right, my only guess is that MU and Scranton are entirely different animals in terms of administration and fundraising. Scranton is much lower profile. Maybe he could juggle it with teaching and still met expectations.
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Right, my only guess is that MU and Scranton are entirely different animals in terms of administration and fundraising. Scranton is much lower profile. Maybe he could juggle it with teaching and still met expectations.
That could very well be the case.
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Scranton is DIII, 6,000 total students, endowment of $131.9 million, not a major research institution, and pretty much absent from national college rankings such as USNW.
What met expectations there would not meet expectations at MU.
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Has a timeframe been set for the hiring process?
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The chairman of the board at Scranton is Kip Condron - President, CEO and a director of AXA Financial, Inc. I have heard he has made fundraising very easy for Scranton and their leadership. MU might have been a different animal.
Last March I was at the 21 Club the night before the BET. It was a packed room full of MU boosters, he was expected there and then word trickled in that he canceled, last minute. The excuse I heard was he was visiting his parents in a NYC suburb and his Dad wasn't feeling well. None of the MU officials I spoke to that night thought his Dad was gravely ill, they all thought it was very odd he did not make it to the quick commitment.
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Right, my only guess is that MU and Scranton are entirely different animals in terms of administration and fundraising. Scranton is much lower profile. Maybe he could juggle it with teaching and still met expectations.
Yea, that makes sense to me.
He wouldn't be the first guy to climb the ranks, only to realize that he was happier/better in his previous role.
Now, how all of this is happening within the MU admin, I have no idea.
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Perhaps "unlikable" is the wrong phrase. I think "distant" might be a better one. Perhaps because of the differences between Scranton and MU, in size and in scope, that the students just didn't feel they knew him all that well.
I do know a student that had a one-on-one meeting with him who thought he was plenty likable. He's just not all that easy to know.
The college President, by the nature of the role, has to be distant. He just doesn't have a ton of extra time to be hanging out with the students, or teaching the the classroom.
Now, maybe in Fr. Pilarz previous role, the balance and free time were different. I have no idea.
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As I think of it, the concept he was let go because of lack of fundraising prowess .. is not likely.
It's barely been two years. How on earth would the BoT assess a guy on his ability to raise funds in that short a time? I've done fundraising .. it's hard work, takes a lot of relationship building. You lose more than you win. You lose 100 times more than you win. Then you hit a few singles and a triple and a grand slam, and everyone thinks you're amazing.
That the supposedly savvy BoT people would pull the rug out on a guy so quickly based on the fickle choices of rich guys in a short window .. that's not rational. Bad press, you damage your reputation, not to mention his, and you gotta go through yet another hiring process. They'd need over-the-top evidence he sucks at fund-raising.
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I don't think it's a scandal, and I don't think it's his health. I think, and again I have no inside information, that's its simply a board that woke up and realized that in 2013 Father Pilarz cannot take the University to the next level from a fund raising standpoint. Cut the cord now, rather than watch the slow bleed.
I think this is spot on. I forgot the B school needed a new dean too. Big opportunity to take a swing for the fences with some "real world" hires. Dean Bishop of the Engineering school is relatively new and very pro-real world based on my interactions. Hire a new president, provost, and B school dean who are on the same page and you have a great way to shift how you do things. The timing makes sense too with the Marquette mission statement activities that have been taking place.
In fact, the more I think about this the less I think conspiracy. I had heard that some candidates had come in for the provost position. Perhaps Pilarz didn't "interview" well in those interviews. I've definitely had interviews where I've been watching coworkers as much as the interviewee and perhaps some of the folks realized that Pilarz was just not going to jump on the same vision. The mission statement stuff came out of the BOT as well. I think the BOT finally had enough evidence to take action and now is as good a time as any to start with a clean slate.
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It's barely been two years. How on earth would the BoT assess a guy on his ability to raise funds in that short a time? I've done fundraising .. it's hard work, takes a lot of relationship building. You lose more than you win. You lose 100 times more than you win. Then you hit a few singles and a triple and a grand slam, and everyone thinks you're amazing.
That the supposedly savvy BoT people would pull the rug out on a guy so quickly based on the fickle choices of rich guys in a short window .. that's not rational. Bad press, you damage your reputation, not to mention his, and you gotta go through yet another hiring process. They'd need over-the-top evidence he sucks at fund-raising.
Considering how MU operates, it might only take pissing off a few of the wrong donors to make the BoT uneasy. Maybe the problem wasn't that he wasn't finding new fundraising avenues, but rather that in the process he lost too many of the previously established donations.
Not saying that was the case or that fundraising has anything to do with the decision, but considering how large some of the annual donations from major donors are to the school, alienating 3-4 of the wrong people (or even one, if it's an annual 62-home-run donor) might be enough.
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As I think of it, the concept he was let go because of lack of fundraising prowess .. is bunk.
It's barely been two years. How on earth would the BoT assess a guy on his ability to raise funds in that short a time? I've done fundraising .. it's hard work, takes a lot of relationship building. You lose more than you win. You lose 100 times more than you win. Then you hit a few singles and a triple and a grand slam, and everyone thinks you're amazing.
That the supposedly savvy BoT people would pull the rug out on a guy so quickly based on the fickle choices of rich guys in a short window .. that's not rational. Bad press, you damage your reputation, not to mention his, and you gotta go through yet another hiring process. They'd need over-the-top evidence he sucks at fund-raising.
While I agree you don't fire him for fund raising only it also wasn't his life line if he wasn't onboard with the BOT on other things.
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The BoT has proved to be impulsive, reactionary, extremely sensitive to the opinions of donors before (Gold anyone?) (the hiring and subsequent unhiring of the lesbian person whose name I forget), so I don't think its necessarily bunk to think they might have cut their losses with Pilarz due to fundraising issues. I think its entirely plausible. Pilarz might have been unhappy and it might have been mutually agreed upon. It wouldn't surprise me.
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As I think of it, the concept he was let go because of lack of fundraising prowess .. is not likely.
It's barely been two years. How on earth would the BoT assess a guy on his ability to raise funds in that short a time? I've done fundraising .. it's hard work, takes a lot of relationship building. You lose more than you win. You lose 100 times more than you win. Then you hit a few singles and a triple and a grand slam, and everyone thinks you're amazing.
That the supposedly savvy BoT people would pull the rug out on a guy so quickly based on the fickle choices of rich guys in a short window .. that's not rational. Bad press, you damage your reputation, not to mention his, and you gotta go through yet another hiring process. They'd need over-the-top evidence he sucks at fund-raising.
If he isn't getting along well with the top benefactors at MU, and reports as such leak back to the BOT, that would be pretty easy to figure out. As you said, it is a relationship based effort, and if those relationships aren't good, you aren't going anywhere.
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I'm sure that Fr Pilarz is a great teacher and a good man, but this is likely an example of the "Peter Principle". He moved up the ladder until he reached his level of incompetence. Once it's clear a guy is in over his head (see Roseboro, Brett) there's no reason for him to linger.
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Look, this wasn't voluntary. He didn't decide to leave so he could teach more.
Do you actually have information? Because everything I have been hearing is that this was 100% Father Scott's decision
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Do you actually have information? Because everything I have been hearing is that this was 100% Father Scott's decision
Yeah I have some. I mean yeah it was his decision that he "resigned," but it wasn't going to end well for him if he didn't.
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Yeah I have some. I mean yeah it was his decision that he "resigned," but it wasn't going to end well for him if he didn't.
I've heard the same.
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Anyone pitch the jump around dude to see if he's got any interest?
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Yeah I have some. I mean yeah it was his decision that he "resigned," but it wasn't going to end well for him if he didn't.
Yeah, Richard Nixon "resigned", too.
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Yeah I have some. I mean yeah it was his decision that he "resigned," but it wasn't going to end well for him if he didn't.
+1...and the timing decision on the exit was not his either, as he was allowed to linger but not the rest of the school year. The BOT controlled all the messaging and the quotes for him, including the late Friday release. Let's face it, there were serious problems with his administration, and frankly many parts of his job he didn't enjoy dealing with. He wanted to be this great academic leader bringing in East Coast elitism. It didn't blend with the Midwest values at all on many levels, especially at MU where 25% of the students are first generation college graduates.
His term was dominated with sports issues and he didn't enjoy it although it is the one feather in his cap. I have heard it was MU and Nova that led the coalition to exit, and he worked well because of his Jesuit and Gtown connections to form a coalition. Gtown was a late comer but then wanted to dominate, which was fine as it all turned contracts with East Coast entities. He pretty much got his way on that deal with nice diplomacy.
He never figured out MU or its culture. He had lofty academic goals that would put MU in the top 50. However, it doesn't have the medical school or research facilities to accomplish that. MU is pretty much a law and engineering school, with a few specialized technical specialities--but that is primarily a Midwest reach.
The whole basketball thing blew up in his face and he basically alienated major donors there as he tried to assert his authority by basically ignoring them which failed missably, so he just checked out from alumni functions as the relationships deterioted. He made it clear through whispers he was not a Buzz fan as he wanted to be the big man calling the shots. Some questioned why a t-shirt and a ride home was worthy of so much public attention and an involved external investigation that seemed to elevate the offense to major status to an eager press. He was weakened here as it was seen as an inexperienced or vengeful overreaction that further damaged the university's image.
He wanted yes people in his administration...you see the trail of bodies and open spots...and the trouble his appointments have had blending in. The MU Jesuit community is rather large and influential, yet he chose to live by himself in an apartment. He had reasons why apparently, but it was seen as MIA by many it seems as was his leadship. In a time of trouble, they need leadership. He is a poet.
In alumni circles, he made it known he was not available to go above and beyond. Ok, that helps mend fences? He often sat by himself when he did attend...or ignored major donors. Why would someone in leadership do this?
Academics I think was a success...he was seen as inclusive and responsive and one who values their world. He asked their input and heard them. I think academia doesn't fully understand the business side needs, but in the past they may have felt left out. He was an intellectual after all.
Students...great 1:1 but he was not liked overall. All zero tolerance rules, no realization of adults making mistakes. Again, the elitist response....but all he did is push the problems down the street. May have worked at Scranton, but MU is a big city. FFP? Got a lot of students, parents and alums mad with the changes.
Strategic plan took a long time--and in the end the BOT did approve it, but it was flat and not progressive enough--it was too consensus and bland on one hand, and out of kilter for what MU is about on the other. And with issues with his fundraising willingness, and his constant personal feelings of alienation which he seemed to voice or show in public through body language, it was time for both to move on. In the end, he was a wash out, whether through his hand or others--or both.
There is more I heard, but that is a detailed analysis by me for discussion here.
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Blackheart sums up well a lot of what I heard and more of what I suspected. I have a feeling the basketball part was as big a factor as anything in this. There are some heavy, heavy donors that base their donations largely on MU's athletics. Donors the school can't really afford to alienate.
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Students...great 1:1 but he was not liked overall. All zero tolerance rules, no realization of adults making mistakes. Again, the elitist response....but all he did is push the problems down the street. May have worked at Scranton, but MU is a big city. FPP? Got a lot of students, parents and alums mad with the changes.
Can Blackheart (or someone else) please elaborate on this?
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Blackheart sums up well a lot of what I heard and more of what I suspected. I have a feeling the basketball part was as big a factor as anything in this. There are some heavy, heavy donors that base their donations largely on MU's athletics. Donors the school can't really afford to alienate.
Additionally, there were some big expenditures on the business side of MU that fell flat on their face and a lot of the blame(deserved or not) was put on Pilarz's team.
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BOT isn't without fault....they wanted an academic and that's what they got. Apparently miscalculated how narrowly focused he really was.
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BOT isn't without fault....they wanted an academic and that's what they got. Apparently miscalculated how narrowly focused he really was.
Actually, that's a great point. If what Blackheart said is true, maybe it just comes down to this:
- The BOT didn't know how much Fr. Pilarz emphasized academics (his real passion)
- Fr. Pilarz didn't realize all of the non-academic demands and criteria that faces the MU President.
Mix that together, and you can see how it would be frustrating for both parties.
ANNNND, to MU84's point earlier, maybe it's time MU revise the reporting structure and job descriptions. I have no specifics on this, but it can't hurt to take a look at it.
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Actually, that's a great point. If what Blackheart said is true, maybe it just comes down to this:
- The BOT didn't know how much Fr. Pilarz emphasized academics (his real passion)
- Fr. Pilarz didn't realize all of the non-academic demands and criteria that faces the MU President.
If true, shame on both of them. What was discerned, asked and communicated in the interview? Did Pilarz hide his passion/agenda? Was the board not up front with what the job demanded? So we get a train wreck - one easily avoided with a little honesty and/or competence by one or both parties.
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The MU Jesuit community is rather large and influential, yet he chose to live by himself in an apartment. He had reasons why apparently.
Smoking gun alert!!!
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If true, shame on both of them. What was discerned, asked and communicated in the interview? Did Pilarz hide his passion/agenda? Was the board not up front with what the job demanded? So we get a train wreck - one easily avoided with a little honesty and/or competence by one or both parties.
Better question... MU has an open Provost and President position. This is a historic opportunity for the Board of Trustees (BoT) to pick two people to pilot the University for the next generation.
Recall that earlier this year (May to be exact) the BoT adopted a vision to raise its rankings and profile:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/marquette-university-adopts-vision-to-raise-its-profile-7t9ptd0-205675301.html
May1, 2013
Marquette University on Wednesday proclaimed a new vision for itself - to be recognized among the most innovative and accomplished Catholic and Jesuit universities in the world.
A strategic plan approved by the board of trustees calls for Marquette to raise its U.S. News & World Report ranking, as well as its profile for research and community involvement. The plan also calls for Marquette to leverage its brand through its nationally ranked men's basketball team and other athletic programs now part of the new Big East Conference.
Marquette President Father Scott R. Pilarz said in an interview Wednesday that the new vision and strategic plan were the culmination of conversations involving the whole campus community since his arrival about two years ago.
and
http://www.marquette.edu/president/documents/strategic-plan-ppt.pdf
Four months after this adoption Father Pilarz is gone. I will take this to mean the BoT takes this initiative seriously.
So, is the BoT capable if picking the next Presidnet and Provost that can carry out this vision over the next generation?
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If true, shame on both of them. What was discerned, asked and communicated in the interview? Did Pilarz hide his passion/agenda? Was the board not up front with what the job demanded? So we get a train wreck - one easily avoided with a little honesty and/or competence by one or both parties.
Let's pump the brakes on the dramatic license train. This is by no means a train wreck. The number of MU alumni alone that probably shrugged their shoulders at the announcement is going to be pretty high. The number of people nationally who didn't even notice is probably staggeringly high. This is the least embarrassing mistake the BOT has made in the last 20 years. Obviously it's not ideal and could have been done better, but I've been in a fair number of interviews where the candidate seemed like the right fit and it just didn't work out.
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Let's pump the brakes on the dramatic license train. This is by no means a train wreck. The number of MU alumni alone that probably shrugged their shoulders at the announcement is going to be pretty high. The number of people nationally who didn't even notice is probably staggeringly high. This is the least embarrassing mistake the BOT has made in the last 20 years. Obviously it's not ideal and could have been done better, but I've been in a fair number of interviews where the candidate seemed like the right fit and it just didn't work out.
I have hired dozens of employees. About 70% work out juts fine. About 20% are disappointing as in they don't really meet expectations but work out OK. The other 10% just don't work out. It happens.
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Let's pump the brakes on the dramatic license train. This is by no means a train wreck. The number of MU alumni alone that probably shrugged their shoulders at the announcement is going to be pretty high. The number of people nationally who didn't even notice is probably staggeringly high. This is the least embarrassing mistake the BOT has made in the last 20 years. Obviously it's not ideal and could have been done better, but I've been in a fair number of interviews where the candidate seemed like the right fit and it just didn't work out.
If the guy you choose to run your company, school, etc. has to be canned in less than three years it was a very,very bad hire. It's not like missing on a salesman, secretary or middle management personnel. That said, if "train wreck" overstates it, apologies.
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Better question... MU has an open Provost and President position. This is a historic opportunity for the Board of Trustees (BoT) to pick two people to pilot the University for the next generation.
Recall that earlier this year (May to be exact) the BoT adopted a vision to raise its rankings and profile:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/marquette-university-adopts-vision-to-raise-its-profile-7t9ptd0-205675301.html
May1, 2013
Marquette University on Wednesday proclaimed a new vision for itself - to be recognized among the most innovative and accomplished Catholic and Jesuit universities in the world.
A strategic plan approved by the board of trustees calls for Marquette to raise its U.S. News & World Report ranking, as well as its profile for research and community involvement. The plan also calls for Marquette to leverage its brand through its nationally ranked men's basketball team and other athletic programs now part of the new Big East Conference.
Marquette President Father Scott R. Pilarz said in an interview Wednesday that the new vision and strategic plan were the culmination of conversations involving the whole campus community since his arrival about two years ago.
and
http://www.marquette.edu/president/documents/strategic-plan-ppt.pdf
Four months after this adoption Father Pilarz is gone. I will take this to mean the BoT takes this initiative seriously.
So, is the BoT capable if picking the next Presidnet and Provost that can carry out this vision over the next generation?
They will hire a President and then let the President hire the Provost. And my guess is that MU will even hold off on the Business Dean until the Provost is hired.
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The whole basketball thing blew up in his face and he basically alienated major donors there as he tried to assert his authority by basically ignoring them which failed missably, so he just checked out from alumni functions as the relationships deterioted. He made it clear through whispers he was not a Buzz fan as he wanted to be the big man calling the shots. Some questioned why a t-shirt and a ride home was worthy of so much public attention and an involved external investigation that seemed to elevate the offense to major status to an eager press. He was weakened here here as it was seen as an inexperinced or vengeful overreaction that further the damaged the university's image.
He wanted yes people in his administration...you see the trail of bodies and open spots...and the trouble his appointments have had blending in.
This part is most telling as it relates to the basketball program. Bolded parts especially.
No inside info, but I would not be surprised if Larry finds a new job soon.
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Can Blackheart (or someone else) please elaborate on this?
On students? Rules, rules and more rules. A couple of shot glasses in your dorm room...permanent record. Sneak in some beers...same. Having RA's audit and ticket...same. So underage kids head over to Victor's and a hundred or so get busted for fake ID's and underage drinking. Wonder who alerted the police? The students do. But the crack down moved the behavior to other more public places of a big city. Did the admin do the right thing? I guess...but permanent records follow you now a days....just some examples of the iron hand...instead of treating 18-20 like adults. There is a strong feeling of dislike as a result vs. Fr. Wild who they felt they could talk to at least. Not a positive sentiment.
FFP was a typo I fixed....Freshman Frontier Program. Great for these struggling freshman and first generation kids to assimilate into college or drop out before first fall semester. It was one thing that made MU great in a lot of people's minds...mostly influential alums who were in it. Related, although minor, the raising of JUCO standards for these kids.
Now, you can say he was correct in some or all these calls in his role, but it was the way they were implemented with a mandate that irked various constituents. And there are two or more sides to every story I know...but little things add up and take a life of their own.
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They will hire a President and then let the President hire the Provost. And my guess is that MU will even hold off on the Business Dean until the Provost is hired.
I can't imagine a Business Dean hire before a new Provost, so I agree with your "guess."
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Smoking gun alert!!!
I don't know what you are alluding to specifically here, but I can guess from earlier comments in the thread...and I didn't mean to imply that if so. I have never heard any talk of that personally. I know people are looking for a scandal because of the timing, but I think it just had come to this point more than anything. Who wants such a struggling and disillusioned leader in place?
Transition timing is prudent, maybe not for a CEO, but for a priest. It also saves some face. This is a big hit for the Jesuits as the likely replacement will be a layperson. It is clear from that press release that he won't be making any decisions, however.
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They will hire a President and then let the President hire the Provost. And my guess is that MU will even hold off on the Business Dean until the Provost is hired.
Yes on the order. So, the next year MU will have three new people in these critical positions. Using the adoption of the May 2013 vision as their mandate.
Is the BoT up to the task?
P.S. Once the new Business Dean is chosen, a new business school building is coming. Think Google-like open architecture.
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Dollars to donuts the next prez is a lay person.
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If the guy you choose to run your company, school, etc. has to be canned in less than three years it was a very,very bad hire. It's not like missing on a salesman, secretary or middle management personnel. That said, if "train wreck" overstates it, apologies.
There's plenty of Fortune 500 companies who go through more than 1 CEO in 3 years.
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Agree with comments the next guy is a layperson. Kind of a shame, end of an era. We have had a some excellent Jesuit presidents, people like Raynor and Wild.
If they decided to go the Jesuit route, do you think this guy has a shot? http://www.marquette.edu/executive-vp/profile-hendrickson.shtml
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Agree with comments the next guy is a layperson. Kind of a shame, end of an era. We have had a some excellent Jesuit presidents, people like Raynor and Wild.
If they decided to go the Jesuit route, do you think this guy has a shot? http://www.marquette.edu/executive-vp/profile-hendrickson.shtml
Hendrickson has a twin brother who also became a priest?! If my sons pulled that off, they'd have the proudest grandmothers in the world!
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Agree with comments the next guy is a layperson. Kind of a shame, end of an era. We have had a some excellent Jesuit presidents, people like Raynor and Wild.
If they decided to go the Jesuit route, do you think this guy has a shot? http://www.marquette.edu/executive-vp/profile-hendrickson.shtml
Holy crap! I knew this guy and his family growing up! We are from the same hometown, but went to different high schools. Hung out with him only a few times while at MU as I went down the party path and he obviously did not...
That would be something.
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There's plenty of Fortune 500 companies who go through more than 1 CEO in 3 years.
Apple went through 3 in 4 years in the mid-90s
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http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/marquette-tribune-calls-on-father-scott-pilarz-to-explain-departure-b99105517z1-225056182.html
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They will hire a President and then let the President hire the Provost. And my guess is that MU will even hold off on the Business Dean until the Provost is hired.
+1
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On students? Rules, rules and more rules. A couple of shot glasses in your dorm room...permanent record. Sneak in some beers...same. Having RA's audit and ticket...same. So underage kids head over to Victor's and a hundred or so get busted for fake ID's and underage drinking. Wonder who alerted the police? The students do. But the crack down moved the behavior to other more public places of a big city. Did the admin do the right thing? I guess...but permanent records follow you now a days....just some examples of the iron hand...instead of treating 18-20 like adults. There is a strong feeling of dislike as a result vs. Fr. Wild who they felt they could talk to at least. Not a positive sentiment.
As a current student I definitely agree with this. While he did try to stay connected with the students by sending out the fairly frequent emails, I got the feeling of disconnect as well because punishments for something like having a beer in your dorm room gets you a pretty hefty fine, at least for a college student. I also have a house that freshman just seem to congregate outside of (can't really do much about it, living on kilbourn), we don't throw parties, and DPS showed up and questioned us 4 nights in a row to the point where it seemed like we were being harassed. I guess that's why I don't really see Fr. Pilarz in all that good of a light, regardless of if he was the one in favor of such strict discipline policies.
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I vote for Flaherty.
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I vote for Flaherty.
It's hard to vote for anyone when we don't know who is on the ballot.
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It's hard to vote for anyone when we don't know who is on the ballot.
He is on the Board.
I also don't have a vote.
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As a current student I definitely agree with this. While he did try to stay connected with the students by sending out the fairly frequent emails, I got the feeling of disconnect as well because punishments for something like having a beer in your dorm room gets you a pretty hefty fine, at least for a college student. I also have a house that freshman just seem to congregate outside of (can't really do much about it, living on kilbourn), we don't throw parties, and DPS showed up and questioned us 4 nights in a row to the point where it seemed like we were being harassed. I guess that's why I don't really see Fr. Pilarz in all that good of a light, regardless of if he was the one in favor of such strict discipline policies.
I was in school from 06-10, and I remember there being a lot of rules, but I will say it sounds like from current students that things are much more strict now - and that there is an effort from MU to purge all alcohol from campus. Could there been a backlash from more old school alums on the BoT that went to MU in a more relaxed time?
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On students? Rules, rules and more rules. A couple of shot glasses in your dorm room...permanent record. Sneak in some beers...same. Having RA's audit and ticket...same. So underage kids head over to Victor's and a hundred or so get busted for fake ID's and underage drinking. Wonder who alerted the police? The students do. But the crack down moved the behavior to other more public places of a big city. Did the admin do the right thing? I guess...but permanent records follow you now a days....just some examples of the iron hand...instead of treating 18-20 like adults. There is a strong feeling of dislike as a result vs. Fr. Wild who they felt they could talk to at least. Not a positive sentiment.
FFP was a typo I fixed....Freshman Frontier Program. Great for these struggling freshman and first generation kids to assimilate into college or drop out before first fall semester. It was one thing that made MU great in a lot of people's minds...mostly influential alums who were in it. Related, although minor, the raising of JUCO standards for these kids.
Now, you can say he was correct in some or all these calls in his role, but it was the way they were implemented with a mandate that irked various constituents. And there are two or more sides to every story I know...but little things add up and take a life of their own.
The rules thing is tough for me.
I was in college (obviously), and we got away with our fair share of stuff. None of it was super dangerous, but a lot of it was stupid, somewhat unsafe, and alcohol fueled. I completely understand that kids need to be given some freedoms to make some mistakes, learn, and grow up (it's one of the beautiful things about a 4 year university).
With this said, I understand how/why the administration would want to crack down on potentially dangerous behavior (including excessive alcohol).
Parents and students pay a lot of money to go to MU, and like it or not, there is an expectation that MU monitor the kid's behavior. If a student has an unfortunate accident with alcohol, and it comes out that MU had some soft policies, MU is going to get ROASTED by some people... and I don't think MU can simply hide behind "Well, you're kids are adults, they make their own decisions." Parents aren't going to go for that.
So, while I understand the student's frustration and wanting to be left alone, I also understand the Administration's concern. Honestly, I think some communication about what the expectations are, and why the administration has put forth such rules could go a long way.
Between 1998-2002, I thought DPS did a really good job of keeping kids safe, but not necessarily "busting" people. My crew got to know several DPS officers, and we were always friendly with them. We understood their role, and we were generally respectful at 3am when they would stop by. They did a good job of saying "We are here for your safety, not to get you in trouble." I thought they were really good.
Now, some of the RA's and Hall Directors left a little to be desired, but it wasn't anything I couldn't work around.
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I was in school from 06-10, and I remember there being a lot of rules, but I will say it sounds like from current students that things are much more strict now - and that there is an effort from MU to purge all alcohol from campus. Could there been a backlash from more old school alums on the BoT that went to MU in a more relaxed time?
You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.
How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?
At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.
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You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.
How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?
If you're counting the bars way on the edge (like the Harp and Sham, maybe Conways) 5, but calling those on-campus is a bit of a stretch....but I definitely agree there need to be more.
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You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.
How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?
At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.
+a bajillion.
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You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.
How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?
At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.
Good point.
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The rules thing is tough for me.
I was in college (obviously), and we got away with our fair share of stuff. None of it was super dangerous, but a lot of it was stupid, somewhat unsafe, and alcohol fueled. I completely understand that kids need to be given some freedoms to make some mistakes, learn, and grow up (it's one of the beautiful things about a 4 year university).
With this said, I understand how/why the administration would want to crack down on potentially dangerous behavior (including excessive alcohol).
Parents and students pay a lot of money to go to MU, and like it or not, there is an expectation that MU monitor the kid's behavior. If a student has an unfortunate accident with alcohol, and it comes out that MU had some soft policies, MU is going to get ROASTED by some people... and I don't think MU can simply hide behind "Well, you're kids are adults, they make their own decisions." Parents aren't going to go for that.
Dr. Blackheart was specifically addressing why Pilarz was unpopular among students. Putting more rules in place is going to do that.
And I really have to question if simply putting more rules in place is going to effectively address the "drinking problem" on campus. As a parent of college aged kids, I would rather have drinking be legal and controlled. Putting in more rules puts it further off campus and in more uncontrolled situations where binge drinking and potentially drunk driving becomes a bigger factor. Kids aren't going to stop drinking because you tell them more sternly not to do so.
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You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.
How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?
At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.
It's a good thing Pilarz closed down Hags and Blows then.
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You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.
How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?
At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.
Oh hey, and I agree with this. Controlled environments are 100 times better for the drinking issue.
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You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.
How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?
At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.
Sobelman's also serves alcohol.
If you don't think there are enough bars around campus, open one up. I assume that no one else thinks they can make a go of it business-wise, or else they would have done it already. Capitalism, baby. Marquette controls most of the retail/commercial space around campus, but not all of it.
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On students? Rules, rules and more rules. A couple of shot glasses in your dorm room...permanent record. Sneak in some beers...same. Having RA's audit and ticket...same. So underage kids head over to Victor's and a hundred or so get busted for fake ID's and underage drinking. Wonder who alerted the police? The students do. But the crack down moved the behavior to other more public places of a big city. Did the admin do the right thing? I guess...but permanent records follow you now a days....just some examples of the iron hand...instead of treating 18-20 like adults. There is a strong feeling of dislike as a result vs. Fr. Wild who they felt they could talk to at least. Not a positive sentiment.
FFP was a typo I fixed....Freshman Frontier Program. Great for these struggling freshman and first generation kids to assimilate into college or drop out before first fall semester. It was one thing that made MU great in a lot of people's minds...mostly influential alums who were in it. Related, although minor, the raising of JUCO standards for these kids.
Now, you can say he was correct in some or all these calls in his role, but it was the way they were implemented with a mandate that irked various constituents. And there are two or more sides to every story I know...but little things add up and take a life of their own.
What's the counter argument to FFP? Why would it have been changed? To improve MU's image? Raise standards? Not accept as many at risk students?
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Sobelman's also serves alcohol.
If you don't think there are enough bars around campus, open one up. I assume that no one else thinks they can make a go of it business-wise, or else they would have done it already. Capitalism, baby. Marquette controls most of the retail/commercial space around campus, but not all of it.
It's a fair point.
However, while I don't think MU is actively running bars off campus, they know that buying up all of the prime real estate allows them to control what is around.
But, not too hard to find SOMETHING that isn't MU owned... but it might not be a prime location, which is part of the problem.
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The rules thing is tough for me.
I was in college (obviously), and we got away with our fair share of stuff. None of it was super dangerous, but a lot of it was stupid, somewhat unsafe, and alcohol fueled. I completely understand that kids need to be given some freedoms to make some mistakes, learn, and grow up (it's one of the beautiful things about a 4 year university).
With this said, I understand how/why the administration would want to crack down on potentially dangerous behavior (including excessive alcohol).
Parents and students pay a lot of money to go to MU, and like it or not, there is an expectation that MU monitor the kid's behavior. If a student has an unfortunate accident with alcohol, and it comes out that MU had some soft policies, MU is going to get ROASTED by some people... and I don't think MU can simply hide behind "Well, you're kids are adults, they make their own decisions." Parents aren't going to go for that.
So, while I understand the student's frustration and wanting to be left alone, I also understand the Administration's concern. Honestly, I think some communication about what the expectations are, and why the administration has put forth such rules could go a long way.
Between 1998-2002, I thought DPS did a really good job of keeping kids safe, but not necessarily "busting" people. My crew got to know several DPS officers, and we were always friendly with them. We understood their role, and we were generally respectful at 3am when they would stop by. They did a good job of saying "We are here for your safety, not to get you in trouble." I thought they were really good.
Now, some of the RA's and Hall Directors left a little to be desired, but it wasn't anything I couldn't work around.
I have some pals at MU and one thing they will tell you is the liability issue. The drinking is going to happen on campus, but turning a blind eye to it in a university owned dorm is a problem for the school. Whether that leads to rape\sexual assault, property damage, suicide, battery, etc. So I get Blackheart's comments about the kids being miffed about the "iron hand", but the school also has an institution to run and they need to show they have the areas they own under control. The world is more litigious than ever.
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You guys are all forgetting about the best campus bar, Jim's Time Out.
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I have some pals at MU and one thing they will tell you is the liability issue. The drinking is going to happen on campus, but turning a blind eye to it in a university owned dorm is a problem for the school. Whether that leads to rape\sexual assault, property damage, suicide, battery, etc. So I get Blackheart's comments about the kids being miffed about the "iron hand", but the school also has an institution to run and they need to show they have the areas they own under control. The world is more litigious than ever.
Correct. Much like the reason everyone's company probably makes you endure sexual harassment and diversity training, schools have to at least give the appearance that they don't condone underage drinking on campus because that serves as a legal defense.
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You guys are all forgetting about the best campus bar, Jim's Time Out.
Good spot, but off campus, no?
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Graduated MU in '89. The list of bars included:
The Gym
Murphy's Law
The Ardmore
O'Ds
The 'Lanche
Heagarty's
State House
Greentree
O'Paget's
After Eight (a stretch , I know, but got to love trainee bartenders...)
That's ten and I know I am missing some. We did stupid stuff but being in a controlled environment was something that kept us out of trouble. I will always believe that.
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An example of how times have changed....
On 10S in Schroeder, we snuck 8 kegs in on Saturday. Got caught with them around midnight.
Next day, me and one other resident had to talk to the hall director, Flo. Flo said, don't do it again. End of story.
Times have changed...understandably so.
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You guys are all forgetting about the best campus bar, Jim's Time Out.
Fact, JTO's is where things get real. Pretty sure the fire code limit is 20 or 25 people though.
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In 1970 the bars included:
Lenny's Tap
The Avalanche
The Ardmore
The Gym
Hegarty's
The Black Spider
Who's Inn
On the edge of campus, drink and live entertainment at the Holiday Inn on 20th and Wisconsin.
And:
Oh Johnny's
Stone Toad
Filling Station
Swinging Door
Crickets
Midget Bar
Fin n' Feather
Jim's Time Out
Ambassador
Eagles Club
Looking back, no wonder some of my friends took 8 years to graduate. Why leave until you have to?
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I believe we had a thread here on the FFP. He cut/redirected funding, scaled it back, was more selective. Same with raising the the JUCO standards, beyond hoops. Yet, private college for first generation kids is a huge family financial commitment...a FFP helps ensure success....two year at JC keeps down costs. But, he wanted to get more selective while getting a MU grant is harder.
On alcohol, it wasn't the need for rules, it was the way they were enforced. Some students are chiming in here...but I will let them explain.
Again, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with some of these, just explaining how sentiment builds. Some of these are more minor to the news.
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Don't forget about Bernie and Melba's! Always a good time to hang with the townies!
Graduated MU in '89. The list of bars included:
The Gym
Murphy's Law
The Ardmore
O'Ds
The 'Lanche
Heagarty's
State House
Greentree
O'Paget's
After Eight (a stretch , I know, but got to love trainee bartenders...)
That's ten and I know I am missing some. We did stupid stuff but being in a controlled environment was something that kept us out of trouble. I will always believe that.
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I believe we had a thread here on the FFP. He cut/redirected funding, scaled it back, was more selective. Same with raising the the JUCO standards, beyond hoops. Yet, private college for first generation kids is a huge family financial commitment...a FFP helps ensure success....two year at JC keeps down costs. But, he wanted to get more selective while getting a MU grant is harder.
On alcohol, it wasn't the need for rules, it was the way they were enforced. Some students are chiming in here...but I will let them explain.
Again, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with some of these, just explaining how sentiment builds. Some of these are more minor to the news.
Yea, if I were a student, I would bitch too. I remember we used to complain about Bill Cords because we didn't like MU's schedule. 10 years later, with some more maturity, perspective, and insight, I was able to more accurately evaluate Bill Cords' performance.
Point is, as a student, it always felt like the admin. was somehow trying to limit our fun, and we thought they were terrible. This included the president, the hall director, the AD, the BOT, Mike Deane, etc. etc.
Looking back, I don't think they were that bad... it's just the nature of being a student. (at least it was for my group).
Now, with all of this said, I don't know the specifics of Fr. Pilarz's role in rules or enforcement, so I can't accurately speak to any specifics in the past few years.
Honestly, it's a complex subject. You don't want to put students under lock and key, but you also don't want to turn a blind eye.
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I believe we had a thread here on the FFP. He cut/redirected funding, scaled it back, was more selective. Same with raising the the JUCO standards, beyond hoops. Yet, private college for first generation kids is a huge family financial commitment...a FFP helps ensure success....two year at JC keeps down costs. But, he wanted to get more selective while getting a MU grant is harder.
On alcohol, it wasn't the need for rules, it was the way they were enforced. Some students are chiming in here...but I will let them explain.
Again, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with some of these, just explaining how sentiment builds. Some of these are more minor to the news.
Thanks. I assume the FFP changes were to try and help the overall university selectivity rating and improve graduation rates? Just guessing...is this true?
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Yet, private college for first generation kids is a huge family financial commitment...a FFP helps ensure success.
Doctor, I believe you are confusing FFP with EOP. It was always the perception that the FFP group contained a disproportionate number of kids who didn't require financial aid; hence the nickname Financially Fit Parents.
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Watch it on the FFP talk. I was FFP and little Goose snuck into MU last year as FFP. To be honest I never understood the program, but glad it got me in and my son as well.
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Oh hey, and I agree with this. Controlled environments are 100 times better for the drinking issue.
I have to concur.
Zero tolerance in the dorms strikes me as way overboard. I rarely recalled anyone getting way out of control in the dorms because no one wanted to get caught.
Wintertime was easier to bring beer in the dorm as you could stuff your winter jacket. One guy had a real puffy jacket that we referred to as "Puff the Magic Jacket" since you cram more cans in it than a usual jacket.
I remember you had to do beer runs earlier in the week and earlier in the day since it was less conspicuous coming back from class with beer cans mixed in with books in the backpack.
Then there was the Schroeder Hall-pass-it-through-the-basement-window to a friend trick. The cafeteria shielded the view from the dorm room windows.
Sounds like times have way changed since my dorm days of 87-88 & 88-89.
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We would wrap a case of beer like a birthday present and tell the dorm front desk it was someone's birthday.
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We would wrap a case of beer like a birthday present and tell the dorm front desk it was someone's birthday.
Cans, right? jsglow jr. told us that bottles make too much noise when you are trying to get the empties out of your room.
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Doctor, I believe you are confusing FFP with EOP. It was always the perception that the FFP group contained a disproportionate number of kids who didn't require financial aid; hence the nickname Financially Fit Parents.
Lol...most likely true for kids on the bubble...but one of its original intents was to help with assimilation of first generation kids, and of course many others--"FFP" or not-- over the summer before their freshman year to adjust to MU. EOP is on-going throughout the four years.
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Two bar-bars now, plus the Annex and Sobelman's, if you want to count them. A few oddball stragglers like JTO on the perimeter.
It's not hard to see why the bar culture collapsed around campus. Raising the drinking age from 18 to 21 wiped out probably 2/3rds of bar patrons. I graduated in 2007, so I don't know this from experience, exactly, but I would bet that the inability to drink in bars played a role in fewer people living on campus during summers, etc. So you have the added problem of students being gone three months during summer, plus one month for a winter break already. The customer base just collapsed. So now students are left with two actual bars, a good burger joint "bar," a university run fake bar, and that's about it.
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By the way, I love how Miss Katie's NEVER, EVER shows up in these bar discussions, despite the fact that it's just on 20th and Clybourn. Yes, they actually have a bar at night. I lived next door and only went there once. 6-8 townies plus an old lady bartender serving 10 ounce beers. Needless to say, I had one and left.
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ZFB once carried in an entire case of beer past the desk people using only normal clothes and a winter jacket.
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I remember my freshman year roommate sneaking in a case of beer in a Coca Cola box on move in day, with the help of his parents.
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ZFB once carried in an entire case of beer past the desk people using only normal clothes and a winter jacket.
how about a duffel bag/1/4 keg though the turn stile...
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Kegs usually came in with those blue wheeled carts into McCormick. Or, the enterprising folks would use a rope and haul it up to their window.
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When I went to school you just made sure your groceries were bagged in brown paper bags. Put the beer/liquor in there and carry it in just like regular groceries.
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Sounds like Pilarz might have made a better provost than president.
When you require students to live in the dorm for two years, having a zero tolerance policy is overboard in my book.
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Good lord have times changed!
When I was at Marquette, in the mid-1970s, you could hardly even go to class and not have a river of beer! No hard stuff, but a lot of beer floating around. Beer was the drink that made Marquette famous.
The challenge facing the university now is that 18 year olds are adults, but they're really not. When daughter dgies goes off to college next year, I believe she is on her own and has to make her own decisions -- good and bad. Part of what college is constitutes a chance to make adult decisions in an adult but forgiving environment. From what I read in here, the forgiving environment is gone.
The RAs were more floor arbitrators when I was there. Folks who smoked dope basically got told "don't be obvious." They didn't want wommen in our dorm or on our floor (McCormick and later Tower) after midnight or 1:00 a.m., but in Tower, they were even blind to that. I don't know that the 1970s were the standards by which we should manage youth for all time, but we did grow up pretty quickly. And our generation has done well by society's standards.
My biggest fear with today's environment and the university being big brother, traffic cop, morals enforcer and beer basher is that people have to learn to grow up. Having an institution replace Mom and Dad is inhibiting the growth that should come on campus. I don't think Marquette, or most colleges for that matter quite get that point yet.
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I have to concur.
Zero tolerance in the dorms strikes me as way overboard.
Zero tolerance? At Alcatraz or Attica sure, but in a college dorm? If that's his idea of creative leadership in the 21st century, I'm glad Fr Pilarz is moving on.
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My biggest fear with today's environment and the university being big brother, traffic cop, morals enforcer and beer basher is that people have to learn to grow up. Having an institution replace Mom and Dad is inhibiting the growth that should come on campus. I don't think Marquette, or most colleges for that matter quite get that point yet.
Measuring risk, ultimately. I'm sure they get the point, but legally they need to protect their hide as well.
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By the way, I love how Miss Katie's NEVER, EVER shows up in these bar discussions, despite the fact that it's just on 20th and Clybourn. Yes, they actually have a bar at night. I lived next door and only went there once. 6-8 townies plus an old lady bartender serving 10 ounce beers. Needless to say, I had one and left.
Miss Katie's has lost it's fastball. At one time it was a decent place to have a few and play that table top shuffleboard game. I think Dukiet may have even had team meals there, but I may be mistaken. Last time I was there, maybe 2011, it just seemed dank.
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Two bar-bars now, plus the Annex and Sobelman's, if you want to count them. A few oddball stragglers like JTO on the perimeter.
It's not hard to see why the bar culture collapsed around campus. Raising the drinking age from 18 to 21 wiped out probably 2/3rds of bar patrons. I graduated in 2007, so I don't know this from experience, exactly, but I would bet that the inability to drink in bars played a role in fewer people living on campus during summers, etc. So you have the added problem of students being gone three months during summer, plus one month for a winter break already. The customer base just collapsed. So now students are left with two actual bars, a good burger joint "bar," a university run fake bar, and that's about it.
I was in school right when that change was made. My recollection is that most of the bars survived the age change, but most closed within 5-10 years later. Perhaps you are correct.
BTW, I used to sneak weekend beer into the dorm as early as Thursday morning. No one checked backpacks at 10:00 AM on Thursday.
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I'm not exactly sure, but in the late 90's, I think it might have been "zero tolerance" as well.
We were just smart enough to get away with it, and the RAs were pretty cool about it if it wasn't egregious/unsafe. We kept it in our rooms, out of sight. Also, we weren't a very destructive group (some guys are), so our behavior was never that bad.
Now, certainly the staff might be instructed to enforce the rules differently now, and that might be the problem.
The key word I keep coming back to is "safety". Kids need to make mistakes, and do dumb stuff. That is fine. However, when they begin to be unsafe, or destructive, that's when MU has to step in.
Now, this is easy to type, and hard to know how to enforce.
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Watch it on the FFP talk. I was FFP and little Goose snuck into MU last year as FFP. To be honest I never understood the program, but glad it got me in and my son as well.
The question I have is did they just get rid of the FFP program and replace it with nothing similar? Or did they simply re-image the program into something else.
This is what annoys me about the "elite" talk. It really takes you away from what you have been as a University. Now that *can* be a good thing. But the question I have is...why do you want to do that? To chase ratings? (Dumb reason.) Or is it more about seeing that the more marginal students are likely going to chose a public alternative because of price reasons, and therefore you have to be more competitive with the higher level students to meet headcount? (Better reason)
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I remember RAs busting down doors on Friday nights because they "heard a can open."
RAs were always the worst and it always seemed Marquette had the strictest system when sharing stories with HS friends at different colleges.
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I remember RAs busting down doors on Friday nights because they "heard a can open."
RAs were always the worst and it always seemed Marquette had the strictest system when sharing stories with HS friends at different colleges.
We had an entirely different RA experience. Mine would rarely stumble out of his room (which was the most disgusting mess of a room I have ever seen BTW) and when he did, he would tell us to "keep it down and don't be stupid" and then stumble back, never to be heard from again. This was '89-'90 & '90-91...think I had the same guy for both years.
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I think this is spot on. I forgot the B school needed a new dean too. Big opportunity to take a swing for the fences with some "real world" hires. Dean Bishop of the Engineering school is relatively new and very pro-real world based on my interactions. Hire a new president, provost, and B school dean who are on the same page and you have a great way to shift how you do things. The timing makes sense too with the Marquette mission statement activities that have been taking place.
In fact, the more I think about this the less I think conspiracy. I had heard that some candidates had come in for the provost position. Perhaps Pilarz didn't "interview" well in those interviews. I've definitely had interviews where I've been watching coworkers as much as the interviewee and perhaps some of the folks realized that Pilarz was just not going to jump on the same vision. The mission statement stuff came out of the BOT as well. I think the BOT finally had enough evidence to take action and now is as good a time as any to start with a clean slate.
This is really interesting if true. I have heard from insiders that FP was a rock star fundraiser at Scranton, which was one big reason he was considered for the MU job.
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.....
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Interesting policy at LegsJr's school (where he just started), repeated in several forums over orientation weekend:
1) Underage drinking is illegal in the state;
2) Underage drinking is against school policy and subject to discipline;
3) Hard liquor is banned from dorms and prohibited whether or not underage;
4) We understand that college students will drink;
5) Nobody checks dorm rooms.
The not so subtle message: OK to drink beer, just don't be an idiot.
As to FFP program, without it, we wouldn't have ahd Chris Farley (and about one-third of my MU friends).
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.....
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Nancy Pelosi and Ted Cruz (for that matter, most politicians) aren't "pro real-world." Bashar Assad isn't pro real-world. Hippies aren't pro real-world. Tom Cruise isn't pro real-world. People who bomb abortion clinics and shoot up malls aren't pro real-world.
In other words, people who would rather force others to live in an idealistic world (in their mind) than simply adapt their ideology to the world we live in are not "pro real-world."
Pope Francis is a good example of someone who is "pro real-world."
I deleted my original post because, as I thought about it more, I understood what the OP meant.
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I deleted my original post because, as I thought about it more, I understood what the OP meant.
Fair enough.
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Miss Katie's has lost it's fastball. At one time it was a decent place to have a few and play that table top shuffleboard game. I think Dukiet may have even had team meals there, but I may be mistaken. Last time I was there, maybe 2011, it just seemed dank.
But it is the only place near campus that'll let you drink as long as you can entertain the bartender.
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We had an entirely different RA experience. Mine would rarely stumble out of his room (which was the most disgusting mess of a room I have ever seen BTW) and when he did, he would tell us to "keep it down and don't be stupid" and then stumble back, never to be heard from again. This was '89-'90 & '90-91...think I had the same guy for both years.
Yeah, we actually used to drink with our RAs. We even carried one home from the bars one night because he passed out on his bar stool.
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Smoked weed with my RA. in his room in Schroeder.
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I remember RAs busting down doors on Friday nights because they "heard a can open."
RAs were always the worst and it always seemed Marquette had the strictest system when sharing stories with HS friends at different colleges.
It really depends on the RA. Personally, I had a couple of awesome RAs (from a student perspective). In each case, he more or less said that he knew we were going to drink so just keep it in our rooms, keep the volume reasonable and don't destroy anything. I honestly don't think our wing had any issues. We actually had multiple keg parties on our floor in Schroeder and the RA kept the "on duty" RAs in the loop and they stayed away from our floor those nights knowing that he'd step in if anything got out of hand...which it never did. Ahh, college.
Now that I think about it, my Schroeder RA was a psych major who currently has a PhD. I wonder if he was experimenting on us by giving us freedom and seeing if we handled the responsibility or turned into Lord of the Flies.
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My freshman RA, the huge Cubs fan, attempted to write up a bunch of us for celebrating too loudly when the ball went through Leon Durham's legs. Good times.
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I was an RA. And this entire conversation just makes me laugh and SMH
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I was an RA. And this entire conversation just makes me laugh and SMH
How bad was the pain when the Office of Residence Life neutered you?
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I remember RAs busting down doors on Friday nights because they "heard a can open."
RAs were always the worst and it always seemed Marquette had the strictest system when sharing stories with HS friends at different colleges.
Had an RA like that... total knob, pranked him a lot after that
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revisiting the who should be president discussion: how is it possible no one actually came up with MULS DeanJoseph Kearney. more reasonable than putting a politico at the head of MU.
great resume: honors graduate of Yale College and Harvard Law School SCOTUS Clerkship
raised $100m for the new building so he knows how to work a room, great working relationship with the archdioceses and a catholic layperson.
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Had two good RA's. Shout out to Scott McDonald and Frank Fanella.
Had friends on other floors with not so great RA's.
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In 1970 the bars included:
Lenny's Tap
The Avalanche
The Ardmore
The Gym
Hegarty's
The Black Spider
Who's Inn
On the edge of campus, drink and live entertainment at the Holiday Inn on 20th and Wisconsin.
And:
Oh Johnny's
Stone Toad
Filling Station
Swinging Door
Crickets
Midget Bar
Fin n' Feather
Jim's Time Out
Ambassador
Eagles Club
Looking back, no wonder some of my friends took 8 years to graduate. Why leave until you have to?
Lenny,
I would add the following to your list:
Glocca Mora
Grunt's
State House
Camel Club
The Harp
The VFW (Nickel Beers on Mondays)
Mug Rack
Zur Krone
Schlitz Brewery Brown Bottle (Free Beer)
Pabst Brewery Tasting Room (Free Beer)
Miller Brewery Tasting Room (Free Beer)
For those who craved an earthier drinking experience there was always Ricky's on State...
(http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/Se7o5-oN1dhW1Dd-l29cCA/ms.jpg)
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Lenny,
I would add the following to your list:
Glocca Mora
Grunt's
State House
Camel Club
The Harp
The VFW (Nickel Beers on Mondays)
Mug Rack
Zur Krone
Schlitz Brewery Brown Bottle (Free Beer)
Pabst Brewery Tasting Room (Free Beer)
Miller Brewery Tasting Room (Free Beer)
For those who craved an earthier drinking experience there was always Ricky's on State...
(http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/Se7o5-oN1dhW1Dd-l29cCA/ms.jpg)
He's back!
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Yes, but is he throwing his hat in the ring to lead MU? ;D
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It really depends on the RA. Personally, I had a couple of awesome RAs (from a student perspective). In each case, he more or less said that he knew we were going to drink so just keep it in our rooms, keep the volume reasonable and don't destroy anything. I honestly don't think our wing had any issues. We actually had multiple keg parties on our floor in Schroeder and the RA kept the "on duty" RAs in the loop and they stayed away from our floor those nights knowing that he'd step in if anything got out of hand...which it never did. Ahh, college.
Now that I think about it, my Schroeder RA was a psych major who currently has a PhD. I wonder if he was experimenting on us by giving us freedom and seeing if we handled the responsibility or turned into Lord of the Flies.
I agree with this. My freshmen year(99) in McCormick we'd stop by our RA for him to place his beer order when we made our beer runs. In fact one time we only managed to get two 6 packs of PBR in when we had "orders" for at least 5...told him we were going to have a lottery, he took a 6 pack and said let me know how you split the other one and walked away.
Sophomore year in East we had a real douche nozzle...wrote a guy up in the first week of school because he had a gold fish in a Smirnoff bottle. Fortunately the floor all knew each other so we pushed back pretty hard and he backed off once the hall director had to get involved a couple of times.
Comes down to the individuals and what the orders are from on top. I think you can CYA on the legal side and still give the students room to make some "safe" mistakes.
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Yes, but is he throwing his hat in the ring to lead MU? ;D
I would be about as qualified to run MU as Russ Feingold (which is to say not at all...)
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He's back!
Just been really, really busy. The choice was to read the mental masturbation here or work on getting an Hg+Cl technology in place for EU compliance with the incipient Minamata Convention. Somehow I felt that working to eliminate anthropogenic elemental Hg from the environment was a more compelling endeavor than arguing about the rightful place of MU basketball in the annals of NCAA history.
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For once we agree. Back to work!
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Lenny,
I would add the following to your list:
Glocca Mora
Grunt's
State House
Camel Club
The Harp
The VFW (Nickel Beers on Mondays)
Mug Rack
Zur Krone
Schlitz Brewery Brown Bottle (Free Beer)
Pabst Brewery Tasting Room (Free Beer)
Miller Brewery Tasting Room (Free Beer)
For those who craved an earthier drinking experience there was always Ricky's on State...
(http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/Se7o5-oN1dhW1Dd-l29cCA/ms.jpg)
Great additions. Welcome back - this place isn't nearly as much fun without you.
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Just been really, really busy. The choice was to read the mental masturbation here or work on getting an Hg+Cl technology in place for EU compliance with the incipient Minamata Convention. Somehow I felt that working to eliminate anthropogenic elemental Hg from the environment was a more compelling endeavor than arguing about the rightful place of MU basketball in the annals of NCAA history.
You'd rather do that than discuss the proper color of corn hole bags? Sheesh.
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Wild is coming back.
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Pilarz's letter:
http://marquette.edu/president/letters-update-09-25-2013.php
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Graduated MU in '89. The list of bars included:
The Gym
Murphy's Law
The Ardmore
O'Ds
The 'Lanche
Heagarty's
State House
Greentree
O'Paget's
After Eight (a stretch , I know, but got to love trainee bartenders...)
That's ten and I know I am missing some. We did stupid stuff but being in a controlled environment was something that kept us out of trouble. I will always believe that.
Ugh...I cannot believe I forgot the Block Party in this post! A huge booze-fest in the middle of campus. Duh...
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Just been really, really busy. The choice was to read the mental masturbation here or work on getting an Hg+Cl technology in place for EU compliance with the incipient Minamata Convention. Somehow I felt that working to eliminate anthropogenic elemental Hg from the environment was a more compelling endeavor than arguing about the rightful place of MU basketball in the annals of NCAA history.
Are you taking Pilarz with you on this project? He loves poetry and you love Haiku. Think about it.