Todd Mayo is no longer with Marquette!

[keefe]

or whether he kisses his son.

One of my boys has 5" inches on me. If I kissed him on the lips he would cold cock me. If I kissed him on the lips in public he would kill me. Bare handed.

[JakeBarnes]

Sounds an awful lot like the Chicos of the last 6 years...

But, Buzz did do a very good job his first 5 years at MU.  Best in my view since Al.  Too bad he had to lose himself along the way and have his ego spiral out of control.  Not entirely uncommon in the profession, nor unique to Buzz.  But, he wore out his welcome.  NO reason MU would let a coach basically walk, if they felt he was truly worth keeping.  He became higher maintenance and more of a diva than he was worth.  In some ways, not a whole lot different than Crean, but at least it took Crean 9 years to turn into a douche.

Internet fighting!!!!!!!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

One of my boys has 5" inches on me. If I kissed him on the lips he would cold cock me. If I kissed him on the lips in public he would kill me. Bare handed.

The world continues to change

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1324799/How-men-kissing-lips-friendship-longer-taboo.html

[keefe]

The world continues to change

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1324799/How-men-kissing-lips-friendship-longer-taboo.html

I have no problem with the mating preferences of people and the legal status of those relationships. But coming from a testosterone-fueled, all-male environment where, because for 15 days at a time guys spend every second of every day together in extremely close proximity, there is a high degree of homophobia and this sort of behavior would be somewhat frowned upon. In fact, if a ROMAD tried to kiss another guy on the team on the lips someone would get killed. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I have no problem with the mating preferences of people and the legal status of those relationships. But coming from a testosterone-fueled, all-male environment where, because for 15 days at a time guys spend every second of every day together in extremely close proximity, there is a high degree of homophobia and this sort of behavior would be somewhat frowned upon. In fact, if a ROMAD tried to kiss another guy on the team on the lips someone would get killed. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-njlyoqCHk

[willie warrior]

Ners has 5500+ posts here over a relatively short time, so if anybody is "taking over this board" you might have the wrong guys. Some of his opinions (more PT for Burton, Derrick was a sub par starting point guard, Jake was a sub par starting 2 guard, etc.,) I agree with. Others (Dawson should have played 30 minutes) I disagree with but tolerate Still others ("Buzz was a genius who - because of his ego, thanks Dr Laura - suddenly went nuts and started throwing games" or "Anyone who disagrees with me about Derrick/Dawson's minutes (including Buzz) is basketball brain dead") I don't tolerate - because on their face they don't make sense.

I know you get very sensitive about people calling you names, but you are just as guilty (calling people condescending and arrogant is, after all, name calling). I'm not "intolerant" about you calling Buzz a BSer and the Lonesome Cowboy. I'm not intolerant of you mocking Buzz allegedly calling Derrick a game changer once. I disagree, because I think you take things out of context. But where I really disagree is you running it into the ground with constant repetition.  

On another note, I sincerely salute your service. The disrespect that many citizens showed during your time in Viet Nam AND upon your return home was abominable. You (and all who served) deserved better.

Thank you.
 Yeah, I call people slurpers for drinking the buzz Kool Aid. I do not consider that derogatory, unlike, "imbecile, dumb, stupid," etc. Yeah I call Buzz a downhome phony BS'er, because IMO he is. One example: I will be at MU as long as they want me". Either that was not true, or he was not wanted. I have my opinion on which is true. You can have yours.

And by the way, Buzz called him an elite game changer more than once, in defense of his first comment--and that is a fact.  He defended the statement, later. It was not alleged, as you allege, but he said it more than once. And where I disagree with the Buzz slurpers is that they continue to drive that opinion into the ground, even now, to defend him.

After that rant, I will now try my best to stop mocking Buzz (which is difficult given his BS), but my pledge now is to respect the VT program and coach, more than I respect ND.

[willie warrior]

2012-13 Buzz Williams - started Juan Anderson over Jamil Wilson
2010-11 Buzz Williams - started Erik Williams over Jae Crowder

And then there is the whole Chris Otule over Davante Gardner thing.

Yep that statement is tough to dissect from Sultan. Buzz Williams would be the first one that comes to mind. Another starter was Reggie Smith who played two minutes per half and never saw the floor after those stints.

[willie warrior]

I have no problem with the mating preferences of people and the legal status of those relationships. But coming from a testosterone-fueled, all-male environment where, because for 15 days at a time guys spend every second of every day together in extremely close proximity, there is a high degree of homophobia and this sort of behavior would be somewhat frowned upon. In fact, if a ROMAD tried to kiss another guy on the team on the lips someone would get killed. 

But wait, Keefe... all of the Armed Services have now changed. We now have co-ed mixed units--probably even in the Navy Seals and Force Recon Marines. And everybody knows that makes for a better more diversified military. And you would not believe the names called recruits in the USMC boot camp back in the day. Even worse than Full Metal Jacket. Recruits nowadays tell me that does not happen. So you are obviously referring to a knuckle dragging Neanderthal old school that has been eradicated.

[GGGG]

Yep that statement is tough to dissect from Sultan. Buzz Williams would be the first one that comes to mind. Another starter was Reggie Smith who played two minutes per half and never saw the floor after those stints.

Right.  The point I was trying to make was that the coach Ners loved to tout, did the same exact thing before that he is now critical of.

And as others pointed out Al did the same thing.

[willie warrior]

Tons of them. Ever heard of Red Auerbach? He had a Hall of Famer  named John Havlicek coming off the bench for years.

And let's not forget Al McGuire. Lots of MU fans were going apecrap in 1977 when he started Bill Neary (at least as offensively challenged as Derrick) over Bernard Toone, a freshman more gifted than Burton, let alone John Dawson. Lots of dimwits were all over Al, though nobody that I recall accused him of throwing games. Had you been around, I have no doubt you would have led the lynch mob.

You are right about Al, Lenny. Toone was one of Al's special cases. Cannot explain Al's rationale about Neary, although he was a good role player. Tough to question what Al did, given his results. Same with Auerbach. My biggest criticism of Al would be the inopportune technicals in some big games. But hell, the guy is a legend, so he does get some slack.

[tower912]

Pretty sure the Lakers started Rambis and brought McAdoo/Thompson off of the bench, the Sixers started Iavaroni and brought Bobby Jones off of the bench, the Celtics brought McHale off of the bench, the Bucks brought Pierce off of the bench........There is a long history of bringing one of the best players off of the bench.   

[keefe]

But wait, Keefe... all of the Armed Services have now changed. We now have co-ed mixed units--probably even in the Navy Seals and Force Recon Marines. And everybody knows that makes for a better more diversified military. And you would not believe the names called recruits in the USMC boot camp back in the day. Even worse than Full Metal Jacket. Recruits nowadays tell me that does not happen. So you are obviously referring to a knuckle dragging Neanderthal old school that has been eradicated.

Willie

No females in SOCOM. Tip of the Spear is all balls.

[wildbill sb]

One of my boys has 5" inches on me. If I kissed him on the lips he would cold cock me. If I kissed him on the lips in public he would kill me. Bare handed.

Hyperbolic, I presume. If factual, you have my sympathy.
wbsb
USMC
19656**

[keefe]

Hyperbolic, I presume. If factual, you have my sympathy.
wbsb
USMC
19656**

It's embellished, obviously. Son #2 is 5" taller and has 40 pounds of muscle on me but the reality is that neither of us would kiss each other on the lips.

I was a PLC - Upshur 79, Mainside Quantico 80. Took an Air Force commission when Commandant Barrow dictated all Air Option PLC's had to go ground for one tour. Mother Blue took in 375 grounded Marine O-1's. God Bless Gen Lew Allen. Semper Fi.

[willie warrior]

It's embellished, obviously. Son #2 is 5" taller and has 40 pounds of muscle on me but the reality is that neither of us would kiss each other on the lips.

I was a PLC - Upshur 79, Mainside Quantico 80. Took an Air Force commission when Commandant Barrow dictated all Air Option PLC's had to go ground for one tour. Mother Blue took in 375 grounded Marine O-1's. God Bless Gen Lew Allen. Semper Fi.

USMC 67-70
San Diego; Pendleton; Cherry Point; Pendleton; Quang Tri province, FLSG Support group; Da Nang; I Corps

[4everwarriors]

I would hope all fathers wished their sons had 5 inches on the old man, aina?

[Skatastrophy]

Bunch of old man homophobia on a basketball forum. Awesome.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Bunch of old man homophobia on a basketball forum. Awesome.

How is objecting to a father kissing his son on the lips "homophobia?"

 "Awesome" interpretation, though.

[NersEllenson]

Right.  The point I was trying to make was that the coach Ners loved to tout, did the same exact thing before that he is now critical of.

And as others pointed out Al did the same thing.

Starting 1 weak link isn't bizarre. Starting 3 or 4 of them together is BEYOND bizarre.  Try again Sultan.  Thanks for the first attempt.

Pretty sure the Lakers started Rambis and brought McAdoo/Thompson off of the bench, the Sixers started Iavaroni and brought Bobby Jones off of the bench, the Celtics brought McHale off of the bench, the Bucks brought Pierce off of the bench........There is a long history of bringing one of the best players off of the bench.   

I agree Tower.  Starting 4 role players over more talented guys is really weird, and unprecedented. 

[Jay Bee]

Bunch of old man homophobia on a basketball forum. Awesome.

Kissing your teenage son on the lips is odd to some people. You find it normal?  How about kissing your teenage daughter on the lips?

[NersEllenson]

Ners has 5500+ posts here over a relatively short time, so if anybody is "taking over this board" you might have the wrong guys. Some of his opinions (more PT for Burton, Derrick was a sub par starting point guard, Jake was a sub par starting 2 guard, etc.,) I agree with. Others (Dawson should have played 30 minutes) I disagree with but tolerate Still others ("Buzz was a genius who - because of his ego, thanks Dr Laura - suddenly went nuts and started throwing games" or "Anyone who disagrees with me about Derrick/Dawson's minutes (including Buzz) is basketball brain dead") I don't tolerate - because on their face they don't make sense.

Lenny - Do you not find it comical that you accuse me of taking over the board, yet I have been a member longer, and have fewer posts than you?  Probably should have taken that into consideration before making the dumb comment.

And lastly, still waiting for you to answer the question regarding Burton in the Big East Tourney?  If a coach is truly trying to win a game, why does he take out his most dominant force in that game, going for 23 points in 23 minutes, on 64% shooting from the field - when the player isn't in any kind of foul trouble - for 6:30 of the last 7:00 minutes of a very close game.  (A game MU led when Buzz decided to take Burton out?)

You can be naive, and choose to believe Buzz was doing his best to win games last year...but there is a mountain of evidence that suggests just the opposite -the most incriminating of course is the above...which to no surprise you have no answer for, as it was totally inexcusable coaching for a coach trying to win a game.

[Skatastrophy]

Kissing your teenage son on the lips is odd to some people. You find it normal?  How about kissing your teenage daughter on the lips?

And this is a basketball forum?

[Jay Bee]

And this is a basketball forum?

I'm responding to your accusations of homophobia. Why not answer the question? Do you agree with other posters, but yet don't want to accuse yourself of homophobia, only others? Double standards and nonsense accusations.. nothing new.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You can be naive, and choose to believe Buzz was doing his best to win games last year...but there is a mountain of evidence that suggests just the opposite -the most incriminating of course is the above...which to no surprise you have no answer for, as it was totally inexcusable coaching for a coach trying to win a game.

I can assure with 100% certainty that Buzz was doing his best to win games. To think he was purposely throwing games is naive.

He coached that Xavier game like he did any other game in his career. When the game is on the line, he rolled with his upperclassmen. Buzz has ALWAYS done that (credit to Sultan's earlier point). Can you argue that's the wrong call? Absolutely, I think it was. Buzz absolutely made the wrong call in that game. But he also was absolutely not trying to lose.

[keefe]

USMC 67-70
San Diego; Pendleton; Cherry Point; Pendleton; Quang Tri province, FLSG Support group; Da Nang; I Corps

Semper Fi Willie