MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuWarrior19 on April 22, 2016, 04:01:27 PM
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Is it weird that both Kalif and Gil are visiting on the same weekend? I have a strange gut feeling that something more is going on. Because what if Kalif signs during Gil's visit? Would make things incredibly awkward. I have no information to back this up just a weird feeling about it. Thoughts?
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Whichever one Wojo wants to sign first. They have different games, I think Young is the one he really wants as he would be a 4 year player and bigger. It might be
just the first person who says yes.
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Don't hope anyone else gets pushed out the door, but under the right circumstances I am still hoping Sandy packs his bags and we grab both.
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I think Young may have pushed his visit back a week.
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Darn. Was hoping we would hear good news this weekend.
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Darn. Was hoping we would hear good news this weekend.
Both were supposed to visit the 29th.
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If Young is pushed back a week, does that mean Mu isn't a favorite or that he likes someone else?
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Young has canceled utter visits. Maybe the cat has commitment issues, ai na?
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https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/718467610250240000
Adam Zagoria
@AdamZagoria
First 3 Visits for 2016 PF Kalif Young of @AI_OvillePrep
Providence - Apr 15 -17
Alabama - Apr 19 - 21
Marquette - Apr 28 - 30
I was going off of this tweet back on April 8th so I had assumed both were coming next week. With Kalif on campus from Apr 28-30 and Gill visiting on the 29th both will be on campus on the same time. Something just seems off about bringing 2 PF in for a visit at the same time. . .
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Wojo wants both and he'll make room if he needs to.
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I think Young may have pushed his visit back a week.
I was wrong, it was the Providence visit that got pushed back.
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Wojo wants both and he'll make room if he needs to.
If Wojo gets both I will be happy and I will also stay off Scoop for a few days.
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Wojo wants both and he'll make room if he needs to.
That may cause some teeth gnashing
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If Wojo gets both I will be happy and I will also stay off Scoop for a few days.
Sandy will be cut, but they'll make it up to him by giving him Wally's track scholarship
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LG Gill will visit Maryland next week per ESPN
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I wonder if any of the MU players have not had their scholarship renewed yet? Anyone know how this is suppose to work? Is their a time frame a team needs to do this in? Once you renew a player's scholarship can you still cut him? Maybe it automatically renewed unless you are told it will not be. If so, when does a player need to be notified by? The longer a team waits to renew a scholarship the more the team is jerking the player around.
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Anyone know if Kalif is 100% coming this weekend? Seemingly both previous visits were on schedule until the day of & he didn't show. Hopefully he does
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I wonder if any of the MU players have not had their scholarship renewed yet? Anyone know how this is suppose to work? Is their a time frame a team needs to do this in? Once you renew a player's scholarship can you still cut him? Maybe it automatically renewed unless you are told it will not be. If so, when does a player need to be notified by? The longer a team waits to renew a scholarship the more the team is jerking the player around.
Damn good questions. On your game this morning bilsu.
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Damn good questions. On your game this morning bilsu.
Scholarships are not "claimed" until the academic year (per NCAA calendar) for which that scholarship is allocated for starts. Remember the Newbill fiasco? He supposedly didn't send in his enrollment papers by the end of July when scholarships are "claimed" and as a consequence Wilson got it (obviously that isn't how it really went down, but just using it as the guide post for the rule).
It's my understanding that a player is considered on scholarship by then end of July so we have until then to freely swing the pole axe 8-)
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Scholarships are not "claimed" until the academic year (per NCAA calendar) for which that scholarship is allocated for starts. Remember the Newbill fiasco? He supposedly didn't send in his enrollment papers by the end of July when scholarships are "claimed" and as a consequence Wilson got it (obviously that isn't how it really went down, but just using it as the guide post for the rule).
It's my understanding that a player is considered on scholarship by then end of July so we have until then to freely swing the pole axe 8-)
Yep, yep. Makes sense eng.
So I'd time your next podcast about 8 hours before Kalif commits just so you guys can stay good to form. ;D
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Scholarships are not "claimed" until the academic year (per NCAA calendar) for which that scholarship is allocated for starts. Remember the Newbill fiasco? He supposedly didn't send in his enrollment papers by the end of July when scholarships are "claimed" and as a consequence Wilson got it (obviously that isn't how it really went down, but just using it as the guide post for the rule).
It's my understanding that a player is considered on scholarship by then end of July so we have until then to freely swing the pole axe 8-)
No, sir. July 1 is the renewal deadline date. 15.6.5.1 for more information.
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I would think every player that is still left at MU is concerned about there scholarship right now or they know that there is a chance they are out. This is really bad
PR, and win at all costs is wrong. I know Wojo is under pressure to win, getting paid enough, but cutting kids is wrong. If somebody else is leaving it should have
already been brought up! I hope it is whom ever wants to sign this coming weekend, that is the kid he takes and move on to 2017.
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I know Wojo is under pressure to win, getting paid enough, but cutting kids is wrong.
Well damn, someone should have told my high school coach!
Seriously, teams start cutting kids as early as 5th grade these days. The pros cut players. Why is a player getting cut in college so bad?
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Well damn, someone should have told my high school coach!
Seriously, teams start cutting kids as early as 5th grade these days. The pros cut players. Why is a player getting cut in college so bad?
Because we are Marquette!
We don't cut players!
We love everyone!
We love 8th place in the big east!
We love players who only want to play when track season is over!
We don't like people being sad!
We love mediocrity!
We are Marquette!
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No, sir. July 1 is the renewal deadline date. 15.6.5.1 for more information.
Damn you and your facts versus my 'memberin'....you can't be right.
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I would hope that if someone is getting cut for performance reasons, that Wojo would have already let them know. (And I think that's the case. My guess is that if someone announces they are leaving at this point, it is their own decision or an academic issue painted to look like their own decision.)
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I would think every player that is still left at MU is concerned about there scholarship right now or they know that there is a chance they are out. This is really bad
PR, and win at all costs is wrong. I know Wojo is under pressure to win, getting paid enough, but cutting kids is wrong. If somebody else is leaving it should have
already been brought up! I hope it is whom ever wants to sign this coming weekend, that is the kid he takes and move on to 2017.
If everything is communicated upfront and honestly, there is zero reason that cutting kids is wrong. A) that's not even what it is 2) We aren't running a feel good about ourselves basketball center III) The point of the program is to generate revenue and positive visibility of the university, not wining hurts both of those things, more significantly then helping a player find a better fit for their abilities
People complain about the lack of competitive spirit in millenials, where heres a chance to restore that....earn your scholarship.
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If everything is communicated upfront and honestly, there is zero reason that cutting kids is wrong. A) that's not even what it is 2) We aren't running a feel good about ourselves basketball center III) The point of the program is to generate revenue and positive visibility of the university, not wining hurts both of those things, more significantly then helping a player find a better fit for their abilities
People complain about the lack of competitive spirit in millenials, where heres a chance to restore that....earn your scholarship.
This goes both ways too. ST-Jr heard about expected playing time and left. We could have really used him last year....I don't think he feels 'bad' about it.
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If everything is communicated upfront and honestly, there is zero reason that cutting kids is wrong. A) that's not even what it is 2) We aren't running a feel good about ourselves basketball center III) The point of the program is to generate revenue and positive visibility of the university, not wining hurts both of those things, more significantly then helping a player find a better fit for their abilities
I agree they have to earn there scholarship, but he recruited Anim and Cohen, that is on Wojo, and live with it. If Wilson leaves, that is another coaches mistake and have no issue if he leaves.
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I agree they have to earn there scholarship, but he recruited Anim and Cohen, that is on Wojo, and live with it. If Wilson leaves, that is another coaches mistake and have no issue if he leaves.
Personally, I'm anticipating that Wilson will evaluate his situation next year at this time when Graduate Transfer rules might apply.
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I would think every player that is still left at MU is concerned about there scholarship right now or they know that there is a chance they are out. This is really bad
PR, and win at all costs is wrong. I know Wojo is under pressure to win, getting paid enough, but cutting kids is wrong. If somebody else is leaving it should have
already been brought up! I hope it is whom ever wants to sign this coming weekend, that is the kid he takes and move on to 2017.
Man up, bro. These kids are going to school for free. If they can't hack it, they should get cut. Simple as that. This is major D1 athletics, not tee ball. If you can find a better player than someone on the back of your roster, thats what you should do, and that is what winning programs do. So many soft posters around here. I like Sandy, and I like Anim. But if we can get Kalif and Gill, you do it.
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Man up, bro. These kids are going to school for free. If they can't hack it, they should get cut. Simple as that. This is major D1 athletics, not tee ball. If you can find a better player than someone on the back of your roster, thats what you should do, and that is what winning programs do. So many soft posters around here. I like Sandy, and I like Anim. But if we can get Kalif and Gill, you do it.
bull sh!t. you stay true to your word. if wojo, and any other coach, is recruiting players and telling them they could get axed in may if someone better comes along, then so be it. anything else doesn't fly for me.
the "these kids are going to school for free" is a hilarious argument.
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Wojo wants both and he'll make room if he needs to.
The frontcourt talent in the 2017 class is worth trying to get only 1 more recruit this spring.
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I don't think that Wojo is looking to turn over a substantial portion of the roster. We have one available scholarship that evolved out of a special circumstance where accommodations were made on both sides. We've fully hashed that out. I'm not going to worry about this further unless and until something beyond one commitment happens. I sincerely believe Kalif and Gill are competing for one spot. Wojo would be open to legitimate criticism if he didn't have a Plan A and a Plan B right now. They days of banked scholarships needs to end. It'll end in the next week or two.
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The frontcourt talent in the 2017 class is worth trying to get only 1 more recruit this spring.
Well...if Wojo took both, that would include Gill, who graduates next year, meaning you would still have that scholarship available for a frontcourt player in 2017.
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I think this is why it bothers me so much. My father graduated from Creighton in 1940 and always talked about the values the Jesuits taught him. He believed there was nothing better than a Jesuit education and paid for his sons to go to MUHS and all of his kids to go to MU. He refused to pay for my brother's law school when he spurned MU and went to UW. He firmly believed MU taught values while UW did not. Whether he was right or not that is how I was raised. Values taught are that people matter and it is wrong to take advantage of others to get ahead. I can understand Wojo wanting the most talented players possible, but to me it is a reflection on the University's non-Jesuit president to let this actually happen. Right now my attitude, which is subject to change in the future, is that I am done donating to MU. I am using my reseating donation to complete an item on my bucket list. I plan on taking a 15 day rafting trip through the Grand Canyon. I am seriously considering not renewing my tickets, which go back to 1956. I know some of you have different attitudes about this and that is okay for you, but for me it is a really big issue.
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bull sh!t. you stay true to your word. if wojo, and any other coach, is recruiting players and telling them they could get axed in may if someone better comes along, then so be it. anything else doesn't fly for me.
the "these kids are going to school for free" is a hilarious argument.
Become a fan of middle school basketball then. Because that's the last place this perfect world in which everyone gets to play and no gets cut ends. The fact that some people don't understand this is what is hilarious.
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I think this is why it bothers me so much. My father graduated from Creighton in 1940 and always talked about the values the Jesuits taught him. He believed there was nothing better than a Jesuit education and paid for his sons to go to MUHS and all of his kids to go to MU. He refused to pay for my brother's law school when he spurned MU and went to UW. He firmly believed MU taught values while UW did not. Whether he was right or not that is how I was raised. Values taught are that people matter and it is wrong to take advantage of others to get ahead. I can understand Wojo wanting the most talented players possible, but to me it is a reflection on the University's non-Jesuit president to let this actually happen. Right now my attitude, which is subject to change in the future, is that I am done donating to MU. I am using my reseating donation to complete an item on my bucket list. I plan on taking a 15 day rafting trip through the Grand Canyon. I am seriously considering not renewing my tickets, which go back to 1956. I know some of you have different attitudes about this and that is okay for you, but for me it is a really big issue.
I respect your POV, but frankly today's cash register that is college bball is not what you describe. It hasn't been that way at MU or broader for quite a long period of time. It is too bad it chases you away from the game, but it may save you some heartache.
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I think this is why it bothers me so much. My father graduated from Creighton in 1940 and always talked about the values the Jesuits taught him. He believed there was nothing better than a Jesuit education and paid for his sons to go to MUHS and all of his kids to go to MU. He refused to pay for my brother's law school when he spurned MU and went to UW. He firmly believed MU taught values while UW did not. Whether he was right or not that is how I was raised. Values taught are that people matter and it is wrong to take advantage of others to get ahead. I can understand Wojo wanting the most talented players possible, but to me it is a reflection on the University's non-Jesuit president to let this actually happen. Right now my attitude, which is subject to change in the future, is that I am done donating to MU. I am using my reseating donation to complete an item on my bucket list. I plan on taking a 15 day rafting trip through the Grand Canyon. I am seriously considering not renewing my tickets, which go back to 1956. I know some of you have different attitudes about this and that is okay for you, but for me it is a really big issue.
This literally makes me LOL. What a pile of bullcrap.
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I can understand Wojo wanting the most talented players possible, but to me it is a reflection on the University's non-Jesuit president to let this actually happen.
If, as several posters have said, Wally was unwilling to fully commit to basketball (attending all practices, weight lifting sessions, etc. even when it conflicted with track), doesn't this change things?
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I think this is why it bothers me so much. My father graduated from Creighton in 1940 and always talked about the values the Jesuits taught him. He believed there was nothing better than a Jesuit education and paid for his sons to go to MUHS and all of his kids to go to MU. He refused to pay for my brother's law school when he spurned MU and went to UW. He firmly believed MU taught values while UW did not. Whether he was right or not that is how I was raised. Values taught are that people matter and it is wrong to take advantage of others to get ahead. I can understand Wojo wanting the most talented players possible, but to me it is a reflection on the University's non-Jesuit president to let this actually happen. Right now my attitude, which is subject to change in the future, is that I am done donating to MU. I am using my reseating donation to complete an item on my bucket list. I plan on taking a 15 day rafting trip through the Grand Canyon. I am seriously considering not renewing my tickets, which go back to 1956. I know some of you have different attitudes about this and that is okay for you, but for me it is a really big issue.
I don't blame you at all. For me, the situation would be different if Wally were graduate transfer eligible currently or could transfer and continue playing by sitting out (ala Sandy or Sacar). I understand there are different points of view on this, but I hardly think bilsu should be mocked or ridiculed for having a moral stance on the issue.
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I think this is why it bothers me so much. My father graduated from Creighton in 1940 and always talked about the values the Jesuits taught him. He believed there was nothing better than a Jesuit education and paid for his sons to go to MUHS and all of his kids to go to MU. He refused to pay for my brother's law school when he spurned MU and went to UW. He firmly believed MU taught values while UW did not. Whether he was right or not that is how I was raised. Values taught are that people matter and it is wrong to take advantage of others to get ahead. I can understand Wojo wanting the most talented players possible, but to me it is a reflection on the University's non-Jesuit president to let this actually happen. Right now my attitude, which is subject to change in the future, is that I am done donating to MU. I am using my reseating donation to complete an item on my bucket list. I plan on taking a 15 day rafting trip through the Grand Canyon. I am seriously considering not renewing my tickets, which go back to 1956. I know some of you have different attitudes about this and that is okay for you, but for me it is a really big issue.
Bucket list for me too.
Can chick and I have your points?
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I don't blame you at all. For me, the situation would be different if Wally were graduate transfer eligible currently or could transfer and continue playing by sitting out (ala Sandy or Sacar). I understand there are different points of view on this, but I hardly think bilsu should be mocked or ridiculed for having a moral stance on the issue.
Sorry, should be more sensitive. But that is just not the way the world operates these days. I graduated from MU in 2012 - honestly, the whole morality and values thing was nearly non-existent IMO. Sure I took a couple required theology and ethics courses, but beyond that - it's not like you're getting preached at. Just think some of the older folks on here think Marquette is something different than it is - maybe it used to be like that, or maybe I am just not a super holy person, but I think it misses the mark.
Plus, how that relates to their college basketball team is even more a reach. I care about MU basketball for one reason - I loved watching them win. If they sucked while I was at school, I probably wouldn't be the die hard I am today. I want them to win. If that means a few kids have to transfer to a lower level school because of it - so what. They'll survive. Its a dog eat dog world out there - not a lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya.
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Sorry, should be more sensitive. But that is just not the way the world operates these days. I graduated from MU in 2012 - honestly, the whole morality and values thing was nearly non-existent IMO. Sure I took a couple required theology and ethics courses, but beyond that - it's not like you're getting preached at. Just think some of the older folks on here think Marquette is something different than it is - maybe it used to be like that, or maybe I am just not a super holy person, but I think it misses the mark.
Plus, how that relates to their college basketball team is even more a reach. I care about MU basketball for one reason - I loved watching them win. If they sucked while I was at school, I probably wouldn't be the die hard I am today. I want them to win. If that means a few kids have to transfer to a lower level school because of it - so what. They'll survive. Its a dog eat dog world out there - not a lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya.
It ain't all that different jJjjjJJJ.
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One of posts on the first page said it best---Agree with-fjm like it or not. (1st page post).
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It ain't all that different jJjjjJJJ.
Well then, more to my point. If MU wants to be an elite program, they need to act like one. That includes getting the best 13 players on the roster they can possible get.
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I don't blame you at all. For me, the situation would be different if Wally were graduate transfer eligible currently or could transfer and continue playing by sitting out (ala Sandy or Sacar). I understand there are different points of view on this, but I hardly think bilsu should be mocked or ridiculed for having a moral stance on the issue.
+1
I think you've been hitting at something most people have chosen to ignore. I understand the reality of college basketball and get why guys like Mbao didn't have their scholarship renewed. However, I'd love for someone to list the number of recruits we've Creaned/Buzzcut/Wojciechows-cleaned who transferred into the program as sophomores or juniors.
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I think this is why it bothers me so much. My father graduated from Creighton in 1940 and always talked about the values the Jesuits taught him. He believed there was nothing better than a Jesuit education and paid for his sons to go to MUHS and all of his kids to go to MU. He refused to pay for my brother's law school when he spurned MU and went to UW. He firmly believed MU taught values while UW did not. Whether he was right or not that is how I was raised. Values taught are that people matter and it is wrong to take advantage of others to get ahead. I can understand Wojo wanting the most talented players possible, but to me it is a reflection on the University's non-Jesuit president to let this actually happen. Right now my attitude, which is subject to change in the future, is that I am done donating to MU. I am using my reseating donation to complete an item on my bucket list. I plan on taking a 15 day rafting trip through the Grand Canyon. I am seriously considering not renewing my tickets, which go back to 1956. I know some of you have different attitudes about this and that is okay for you, but for me it is a really big issue.
There are so many injustices that college athletes are subjected to. Getting cut from the team based on their performance on the court is not one of them. That happens at every level of competitive athletics.
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Sorry, should be more sensitive. But that is just not the way the world operates these days. I graduated from MU in 2012 - honestly, the whole morality and values thing was nearly non-existent IMO. Sure I took a couple required theology and ethics courses, but beyond that - it's not like you're getting preached at. Just think some of the older folks on here think Marquette is something different than it is - maybe it used to be like that, or maybe I am just not a super holy person, but I think it misses the mark.
Plus, how that relates to their college basketball team is even more a reach. I care about MU basketball for one reason - I loved watching them win. If they sucked while I was at school, I probably wouldn't be the die hard I am today. I want them to win. If that means a few kids have to transfer to a lower level school because of it - so what. They'll survive. Its a dog eat dog world out there - not a lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya.
I agree that Wally being cut is a moral non-issue. But as a 2011 grad I could not disagree with this post more.
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to me it is a reflection on the University's non-Jesuit president to let this actually happen.
You are of course free to your own opinion. But the fact is, cuts happened with Buzz and Crean too - under Jesuit presidents. I don't know why people are treating this one so differently.
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I agree that Wally being cut is a moral non-issue. But as a 2011 grad I could not disagree with this post more.
Fair enough. Likely what you make of it / went to school for.
I think Marquette strives to make their students the best people they can be - "be the difference". I think that is good, and I think they do a good job of it. But the people that think Marquette shouldn't cut a basketball player because the school and its graduates should be held to a higher moral standard that need to get off their high horse.
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Seems like many of you share the same opinion. Which you don't get to pile on if/when UW, Louisville, Syracuse, etc. drop a player.
Better be no mention of how MU does things differently. Don't get to play the mortal superiority card anymore.
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You are of course free to your own opinion. But the fact is, cuts happened with Buzz and Crean too - under Jesuit presidents. I don't know why people are treating this one so differently.
He has a famous brother.
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Seems like many of you share the same opinion. Which you don't get to pile on if/when UW, Louisville, Syracuse, etc. drop a player.
Better be no mention of how MU does things differently. Don't get to play the mortal superiority card anymore.
Outside of some ribbing of UW mostly due to UW fans pretending to have the moral high-ground - I have not noticed anyone really putting up a stink about a Louisville or Syracuse transfer.
Now being outraged when it is exposed that the program is paying for hookers, having criminal activity, setting up false classes or putting punitive restrictions on a transfer release...that I have seen.
I think Rocky is right -- odd that people seem to care about this one based on what has occurred here and elsewhere pretty regularly.
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You are of course free to your own opinion. But the fact is, cuts happened with Buzz and Crean too - under Jesuit presidents. I don't know why people are treating this one so differently.
Because exactly what was said above by Brew and in many other places: Wally is faced with really no choice. If Sandy or Sacar were run off I would be reacting the way everyone else is, and the way I reacted when Mbao and Jamail and others were run off. They could go down a level and get more playing time and essentially get re-recruited. But Wally doesn't have the option to transfer and play again, so his college career was essentially ended for him, when he is clearly good enough to have played somewhere.
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Wally is faced with really no choice.
Are you positive that's a fact? Did he have a choice to make a commitment to basketball and drop track?
I don't know for sure, but I've seen no facts to indicate he had no choice.
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Are you positive that's a fact? Did he have a choice to make a commitment to basketball and drop track?
I don't know for sure, but I've seen no facts to indicate he had no choice.
No I don't know that -- but I don't think that's a real choice. I understand that when he transferred they said something to the effect of he'd participate in track but would prioritize basketball during basketball season. Which I believe is why he did indoor track last year but not this year. So what changed this year? Did they raise the expectations for him? If so then you're back to my original point (changing the terms of his involvement and leaving him without a real choice). Or did his summer commitment change because of possible olympic involvement? In which case I would also find it hard to defend Wojo, but this would be subject to their discussions. Do you think during his recruitment, if Wally said, if I want to take a shot at the olympics will I have to leave the team, Wojo would say yes? Or do you think that they never had that discussion?
I acknowledge that facts are hard to come by and speculation is rampant, and obviously if revealed facts came out one way I would change my opinion, but I refuse to go along with the people saying "it doesn't matter what happens, this is how it is and we should like it." Your silence or approval is what makes it that way.
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Become a fan of middle school basketball then. Because that's the last place this perfect world in which everyone gets to play and no gets cut ends. The fact that some people don't understand this is what is hilarious.
another ridiculous post. so you are saying that lying to college kids (who make a sh!t ton of money for universities) is acceptable because everyone does it to win and they get a free education while the coach allows for it? what a joke. i wouldn't raise my kid like that, and i certainly wouldn't treat those that work for me like that. not everyone gets to play, and if they don't get to play and want to leave, so be it...but something tells me that when coaches are recruiting these kids they aren't telling them that if they can do better they're going to show them the door. now there's plenty that a kid can do to earn his way out of a scholarship, but if the kid is doing everything right, giving him the boot is ridiculous.
the fact that you think you understand the cut-throat world of college hoops and no one else does is hilarious. the fact that you can't understand that misleading kids in likely the biggest decision of their life is hilarious.
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Da door swings both ways, hey?
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another ridiculous post. so you are saying that lying to college kids (who make a sh!t ton of money for universities) is acceptable because everyone does it to win and they get a free education while the coach allows for it? what a joke. i wouldn't raise my kid like that, and i certainly wouldn't treat those that work for me like that. not everyone gets to play, and if they don't get to play and want to leave, so be it...but something tells me that when coaches are recruiting these kids they aren't telling them that if they can do better they're going to show them the door. now there's plenty that a kid can do to earn his way out of a scholarship, but if the kid is doing everything right, giving him the boot is ridiculous.
the fact that you think you understand the cut-throat world of college hoops and no one else does is hilarious. the fact that you can't understand that misleading kids in likely the biggest decision of their life is hilarious.
Misleading kids? Things change. Maybe Wojo thought they'd develop into a difference maker. Back when these scholarships were offered, MU was in a vastly different place and had many spots to fill. Now? Not so much.
You can believe and think whatever you'd like - I don't care. I am just glad the guy running the program I cheer for doesn't think the same way.
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Misleading kids? Things change. Maybe Wojo thought they'd develop into a difference maker. Back when these scholarships were offered, MU was in a vastly different place and had many spots to fill. Now? Not so much.
You can believe and think whatever you'd like - I don't care. I am just glad the guy running the program I cheer for doesn't think the same way.
no one is arguing that "things change." no one is arguing that the best players shouldn't get the minutes. my post stated that if the kid did everything asked of him, he shouldn't have his scholarship removed. if wally came to MU, did everything asked of him, and was cut simply because hank is gone...that's bs. if wally told wojo ahead of time that he couldn't commit to MU bball 100% because of track, and wojo said ok, then later changed his mind...that's bs. if wally originally committed to bball 100%, and later asked for some flexibility from bball for track, and wojo said no, i'm good with that.
if a coach walks in a recruits house, tells him he will have a great career at MU if he gives his all, the kid gives his all, but the coach finds what might be a better player and cuts the kid...that's bs. if the coach says you have to earn every minute, and you're replaceable any year for a better recruit...fair enough.
and to 4ever's point...the door does swing both ways...but not in an equal manner. kids have to sit out, transfer restrictions can be applied, etc... overall, the adults who profit off the game are in a much more advantageous position, and that is also bs. no one is advocating for the rights of the kids.
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no one is arguing that "things change." no one is arguing that the best players shouldn't get the minutes. my post stated that if the kid did everything asked of him, he shouldn't have his scholarship removed. if wally came to MU, did everything asked of him, and was cut simply because hank is gone...that's bs. if wally told wojo ahead of time that he couldn't commit to MU bball 100% because of track, and wojo said ok, then later changed his mind...that's bs. if wally asked for some flexibility from bball for track, and wojo said no, i'm good with that.
if a coach walks in a recruits house, tells him he will have a great career at MU if he gives his all, the kid gives his all, but the coach finds what might be a better player and cuts the kid...that's bs.
and to 4ever's point...the door does swing both ways...but not in an equal manner. kids have to sit out, transfer restrictions can be applied, etc... overall, the adults who profit off the game are in a much more advantageous position, and that is also bs. no one is advocating for the rights of the kids.
I get where you're coming from - I just don't agree. The coaches job is to field the best team possible. By your measure, if any college program brings in a project, and he doesn't pan out - they have to hold onto that player for 4 seasons just because they gave them a scholarship in year one. You may not want to believe it, but scholarships are one year deals. The player may give it his all in year one (or however many years) but if he just isn't as good as the coach hoped, they should have the right to move on (both the player and coach).
This isn't an MU issue. This is an issue in all of college athletics. This happens to players EVERY SINGLE day across college sports, high school sports, summer travel teams, etc., etc. Hell, it happened to me. I transferred to a private HS because I was begged to by a coach and was promised things. I lived and breathed this particular sport my entire life leading up to transferring to this HS for the sole reason of playing this sport. Every single year I was there a new kid was brought in who played my position (only 1 plays at a time), who were probably promised the same thing - 3 of which ended up playing major d1 in this sport - and I ended up never even getting a chance. Hell yah I am salty about it - still am - but I also get that it is just the way it works in sports. I never got the opportunity to show my talents like I was promised and was left with the choice of switching schools again to follow my dream of playing at the D1 level (and mind you, I was actually paying for school), or stay where I was where I had built some great friendships that will last a lifetime. I chose to stay - which got me into MU and got me the job I have now.
Long story short - this sh!t happens everywhere. I've experienced first hand. It sucks, but its just the way it works. Major college hoops is a step up from HS - these coaches are paid millions to win, and they can and should do whatever they can to do so. As a fan, I can appreciate that - even if a kid gets a raw deal every now and then.
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no one is arguing that "things change." no one is arguing that the best players shouldn't get the minutes. my post stated that if the kid did everything asked of him, he shouldn't have his scholarship removed. if wally came to MU, did everything asked of him, and was cut simply because hank is gone...that's bs. if wally told wojo ahead of time that he couldn't commit to MU bball 100% because of track, and wojo said ok, then later changed his mind...that's bs. if wally originally committed to bball 100%, and later asked for some flexibility from bball for track, and wojo said no, i'm good with that.
if a coach walks in a recruits house, tells him he will have a great career at MU if he gives his all, the kid gives his all, but the coach finds what might be a better player and cuts the kid...that's bs. if the coach says you have to earn every minute, and you're replaceable any year for a better recruit...fair enough.
and to 4ever's point...the door does swing both ways...but not in an equal manner. kids have to sit out, transfer restrictions can be applied, etc... overall, the adults who profit off the game are in a much more advantageous position, and that is also bs. no one is advocating for the rights of the kids.
Wally was cut because he wasn't good enough to make the team. That happens at every level of competitive athletics. Wally failed to earn his scholarship by not being better than the 13 others guys who are interested in being on the team. I get it. It sucks to be the worst guy on the team. It sucks to get cut. But that's part of athletics. Hell that's part of life. You don't get the job just because you tried harder than anybody else. You have to be better than everyone else.
I think people are trying to make this too complicated. I don't think Wally running track is part of it. I don't think the Ellensons being a handful is part of it. I don't think Henry declaring for the NBA is a part of it. I think it simply boils down to, Wojo has 14 guys interested in playing for Marquette. He has 13 scholarships to give out. Of those 14 guys, Wally is the 14th best at basketball. If he was the 13th best at basketball, he would still be on the team.
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This isn't hard to grasp. We have no front court depth going into next season, much of that due to the fact that Henry took off after 1 year. Some will blame Wojo for not going out and finding another big beforehand but he focused on quality guard play, which we haven't had in forever and we all know is Priority A, B, and C in college basketball.
It seems like there were concessions in the past for Wally and track, I have no idea the extent or the agreement when he committed. You could assume that with Henry here there was literally no need to have Wally contribute on the court so he could get away with meets and skipping bball. When Henry left, circumstances changed and if Wally wanted to get any PT he'd have to change course as well. Wojo needed Wally to dedicate himself 100% to basketball and the program this summer/season because we have no front court depth and Wally wouldn't concede track so the rest is history. IT WAS WALLY'S CHOICE. And he made the right choice for himself.
We all know this but the reason I spell it out is to show this wasn't immoral in the slightest. Just the way college basketball works everywhere. Things change quickly, Wojo gave Wally a choice and he wouldn't commit. See ya. As I mentioned before, no one would bat an eye if Henry wasn't his brother. The Ellensons are the definitions of helicopter parents who I'm sure made this harder than it needed to be. And from what I've heard from multiple people involved in the Athletic Department, they were an absolute nightmare to deal with for 2 years - so I'm not exactly giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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If, as several posters have said, Wally was unwilling to fully commit to basketball (attending all practices, weight lifting sessions, etc. even when it conflicted with track), doesn't this change things?
No, because they knew that when they recruited him.
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No, because they knew that when they recruited him.
We also had 8 scholarship players when he was redshirtng thsyd not even enough practice bodies.
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You are of course free to your own opinion. But the fact is, cuts happened with Buzz and Crean too - under Jesuit presidents. I don't know why people are treating this one so differently.
Because they brought in Wojo in to change the type of players MU was recruiting. The premise was that good students and good citizens were more important than better players with character flaws. We are now cutting good character type of recruits. There was more than one basketball game on TV where the announcers talked about Wally's high jumping ability. He also gave MU some first place finishes in track, which is something MU was proud of. As far as I know he is a good student and I have not heard of him doing anything, but bringing good press to MU. For all of this MU rewards him by taking away his basketball scholarship. Some of you are advocating taking away Cohen's scholarship, if we could sign both recruits. I just do not agree with that. I do not care if you do not agree with me or if you think I am crazy. You have a right to think that getting the best players possible is more important than the commitments made during recruiting just as I have the right to think it is wrong.
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Nah, just win baby.
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Wojo was brought in to win period. In order to win, you have to recruit the best talent possible and coach them to win. It is all about winning. This isn't little league!
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Wojo was brought in to win period. In order to win, you have to recruit the best talent possible and coach them to win. It is all about winning. This isn't little league!
The thing is, this is completely inaccurate. If winning was all Marquette cared about, the JUCO restrictions never would have changed for Buzz and he'd still be our coach.
Wojo is here in large part to create a new culture and to do things in diametric opposition to how Buzz did things. Winning matters, but it is not the only thing that does.
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The thing is, this is completely inaccurate. If winning was all Marquette cared about, the JUCO restrictions never would have changed for Buzz and he'd still be our coach.
Wojo is here in large part to create a new culture and to do things in diametric opposition to how Buzz did things. Winning matters, but it is not the only thing that does.
Respectfully disagree. Remember, Shaka was our first choice and he's hardly a "culture changer". If you count Wally (I do) Wojo has already brought in 4 "one and dones" and he's currently after #5. That says "just win, baby" to me.
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Respectfully disagree. Remember, Shaka was our first choice and he's hardly a "culture changer". If you count Wally (I do) Wojo has already brought in 4 "one and dones" and he's currently after #5. That says "just win, baby" to me.
Disagree with your point here. "One and dones" refer to freshman phenoms who are just biding their time until they reach NBA eligibility. Grad transfers (Carlino, Reinhardt) are players that have dedicated 3-4 years to college ball, met their school's requirements to obtain a degree, and choose to look for a different basketball experience, for whatever reason. It's a world of difference, and grad transfers can bring experience and depth to a team, and fill holes while the coach works on recruiting longer term players to those positions.
Wally, on the other hand, spent two years with the team, sitting one out for transfer reasons. You can maybe call him "bait," but not a one and done.
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Well then, more to my point. If MU wants to be an elite program, they need to act like one. That includes getting the best 13 players on the roster they can possible get.
Great idea. Can we count on you to be in charge of prostitute procurement for recruits?
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Great idea. Can we count on you to be in charge of prostitute procurement for recruits?
Christ! you want to doom us to SLU/UD status? careful whom you anoint 'Entertainment Chair'
#4ever4chair
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This isn't hard to grasp. We have no front court depth going into next season, much of that due to the fact that Henry took off after 1 year. Some will blame Wojo for not going out and finding another big beforehand but he focused on quality guard play, which we haven't had in forever and we all know is Priority A, B, and C in college basketball.
It seems like there were concessions in the past for Wally and track, I have no idea the extent or the agreement when he committed. You could assume that with Henry here there was literally no need to have Wally contribute on the court so he could get away with meets and skipping bball. When Henry left, circumstances changed and if Wally wanted to get any PT he'd have to change course as well. Wojo needed Wally to dedicate himself 100% to basketball and the program this summer/season because we have no front court depth and Wally wouldn't concede track so the rest is history. IT WAS WALLY'S CHOICE. And he made the right choice for himself.
We all know this but the reason I spell it out is to show this wasn't immoral in the slightest. Just the way college basketball works everywhere. Things change quickly, Wojo gave Wally a choice and he wouldn't commit. See ya. As I mentioned before, no one would bat an eye if Henry wasn't his brother. The Ellensons are the definitions of helicopter parents who I'm sure made this harder than it needed to be. And from what I've heard from multiple people involved in the Athletic Department, they were an absolute nightmare to deal with for 2 years - so I'm not exactly giving them the benefit of the doubt.
No front court depth is a direct result of Wojo choosing to use the scholarship that opened up when Henry announced he was leaving to sign Katin Reinhardt, instead of holding it for one of the possible front court recruits. Before Henry announced he was leaving, Woj couldn't have been too concerned about front court depth since he chose to recruit Hauser and Howard with his two open scholarships.
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It really gets annoying on here when some of you guys can't let things go. Folks have different views on this Wally thing. All have been aired. I keep coming to this thread thinking we're going to get an interesting discussion of Gill vs. Kalif. Unfortunately not.
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It really gets annoying on here when some of you guys can't let things go. Folks have different views on this Wally thing. All have been aired. I keep coming to this thread thinking we're going to get an interesting discussion of Gill vs. Kalif. Unfortunately not.
It's like you don't even know Scoop at all ;D
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It's like you don't even know Scoop at all ;D
I guess I've become the crotchety old man but that doesn't mean I'm wrong eng. ;D
But seriously, some of you guys know tons about these two players. I'd love to extol the virtues of one vs. the other. Perhaps some of you have even seen them play in person. I know Kalif is more of an inside guy while Gill is a 'stretch'. But that's about all I know.
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It don't matter 'til if and when day matriculate, ai na?
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Great idea. Can we count on you to be in charge of prostitute procurement for recruits?
Yah, because turning over the back end of your roster to improve is the same as hiring prostitutes for recruits.
Got it.
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It really gets annoying on here when some of you guys can't let things go. Folks have different views on this Wally thing. All have been aired. I keep coming to this thread thinking we're going to get an interesting discussion of Gill vs. Kalif. Unfortunately not.
I would also love some input on these guys. I've watched some videos on Young but that's about it.
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According to Velazquez, Gill is our only visit this weekend. https://twitter.com/matt_velazquez/status/725054923964997632
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Well then, I'm ONLY expecting one commitment this weekend :)
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Well then, I'm ONLY expecting one commitment this weekend :)
Why just one?
Clearly this means Mr. Young is ready to commit without setting foot on campus.
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Somethin' isn't kosher with Young and his recruitment. Cat has commitment issues. Next man up, hey?
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It is a little strange that Kalif has cancelled each and every scheduled visit. I really don't know what to make of that. I'm not putting anything on the young man but is there a circumstance where multiple coaches might call him and un-invite? Now I'm not suggesting anything character/talent related but thinking more about Canadian citizenry/eligibility issues or something else. I wonder?
Edit. Possible family situation mentioned on other thread attributed to Providence beat writer.
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It is a little strange that Kalif has cancelled each and every scheduled visit. I really don't know what to make of that. I'm not putting anything on the young man but is there a circumstance where multiple coaches might call him and un-invite? Now I'm not suggesting anything character/talent related but thinking more about Canadian citizenry/eligibility issues or something else. I wonder?
Or, as the Providence beat guy said, he has an illness is his family.
Ahh, got it now.
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And let's not assume that LG is a lock:
http://www.testudotimes.com/maryland-terps-basketball/2016/4/25/11501894/LG-Gill-duquesne-Terps-transfer-visit
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He is no lock and if he showed up today with our weather, ouch, it is cold outside??
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And let's not assume that LG is a lock:
http://www.testudotimes.com/maryland-terps-basketball/2016/4/25/11501894/LG-Gill-duquesne-Terps-transfer-visit
Hopefully he goes there on a hot humid miserable day and he approaches their campus from the bad part of town.
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How would you advise he enter da MU campus, hey?
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He is no lock and if he showed up today with our weather, ouch, it is cold outside??
If he's smart enough to get into MU, he's smart enough to realize you don't come to Milwaukee for the weather or women.
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How would you advise he enter da MU campus, hey?
Good question, I think best angle of approach is from the south and east get that nice view of the Law School and then the main campus that way. Then straight into the Al.
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If he's smart enough to get into MU, he's smart enough to realize you don't come to Milwaukee for the weather or women.
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Easy - the women are just fine.