Poll:Let’s stop beating around the bush

[Galway Eagle]

Keep letting him see a full recruiting class through. If haanif Tracy and Henry (on top of Anim and Heldt) were all still seniors this year and we had worse results I'd say fire.

[Jon]

Interesting results. I guess we have a vocal minority.

In combat it is far more critical to know when to release than to press.

The same goes for strategic decision making in business. Staying the course is easy; charting a new direction is inherently difficult because of the uncertainty. But fear of the unknown is hardly a reason for not dealing with a problem.

It is time, people. At a visceral level we know Wojo is not the right guy. Wojo needs to go.

The BoT made a "safe" choice - the anti-Buzzard. It was the wrong choice.

What chaps my ass is that Hopkins was one of the finalists when the BoT hired Wojo. Hopkins is now building something special but it's not in Milwaukee.

[Eldon]

Herman, enjoy your stuff.  You have said you want Wojo gone, Stan to take over. You also said the other day Wojo throws kids under the bus.  You may be right, but are there examples of this?

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=51574.msg830759#msg830759

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52652.msg873231#msg873231

[Bocephys]

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=51574.msg830759#msg830759

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52652.msg873231#msg873231

So no?  Just a couple of examples of yourself reading too much into things without having any intimate details?

[rocky_warrior]

Interesting results. I guess we have a vocal minority.

Blowhard minority you might say...

[vogue65]

I vote to keep Wojo and lower expectations.

He is coaching with one hand tied behind his back.
He recruits and coaches with the players the BOT wants to represent the University.
The selection criteria for players is obvious and athleticism is not a top priority.
So the ball is in Wojo's court, coach the new Marquette style or leave the small Big East, and try to become a NCAA tournament winner.

My take, purely unsubstantiated, is that after his team and he left their heart and soul on the Madison Square Garden floor and was not backed up, in public, by the athletic department and the insulated BOT, he made a decision, screw the Big East.

If memory serves, Buzz said in public the same thing.

Oh, and what's wrong with being a mid-major and having some fun?  Good luck to SJ's, G.T, and S.H., they get it.

[Bocephys]

I vote to keep Wojo and lower expectations.

He is coaching with one hand tied behind his back.
He recruits and coaches with the players the BOT wants to represent the University.
The selection criteria for players is obvious and athleticism is not a top priority.
So the ball is in Wojo's court, coach the new Marquette style or leave the small Big East, and try to become a NCAA tournament winner.

My take, purely unsubstantiated, is that after his team and he left their heart and soul on the Madison Square Garden floor and was not backed up, in public, by the athletic department and the insulated BOT, he made a decision, screw the Big East.

If memory serves, Buzz said in public the same thing.

Oh, and what's wrong with being a mid-major and having some fun?  Good luck to SJ's, G.T, and S.H., they get it.

[vogue65]

The non verbal response.  Must be a millenial.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In combat it is far more critical to know when to release than to press.

The same goes for strategic decision making in business. Staying the course is easy; charting a new direction is inherently difficult because of the uncertainty. But fear of the unknown is hardly a reason for not dealing with a problem.

It is time, people. At a visceral level we know Wojo is not the right guy. Wojo needs to go.

The BoT made a "safe" choice - the anti-Buzzard. It was the wrong choice.

What chaps my ass is that Hopkins was one of the finalists when the BoT hired Wojo. Hopkins is now building something special but it's not in Milwaukee.

Don't say we know anything because all you are offering is an opinion and it differs from others.

Some time staying the course is the easy choice. Some times it is not, especially when there are many screaming and making threats to try and force change.

We'll see about Hopkins. You keep raving about him but his top 6 guys in a 7 man rotation are all Romar recruits. 5 are set to graduate and one is appearing in mock drafts as an early 2nd rounder. Let's see how he does once Romar's recruits are gone. It's certainly possible that he should have been the choice. A first round win with another coach's players are not enough to convince me.

[Bocephys]

The non verbal response.  Must be a millenial.

^^ Ban dis guy for personal attacks ^^

[StillAWarrior]

I voted keep.

That said, I have major concerns on Wojo and I am pessimistic he will do anything of note here. I'm sure others that voted that way share similar doubts.

Agreed.  They had a team that was ranked much of the season, including two stints in the top 10.  They're losing very little production to graduation.  I'm on board with giving him a chance to coach this team next year...but the expectations/standard should be pretty high.  They'd better be playing on the second weekend.

[vogue65]

^^ Ban dis guy for personal attacks ^^

Glad to see you can use words.  Since when is being refered to as a millenial a personal attack?
Is being refered to as a post war babby boomer a personal attack?

[21rooster]

Why would people want to blow up a team that loses nothing next year, adds ballhandlers (a key driver of the late-season decline) and gains a year of experience across the board?  Yes, this season has made it clear that Wojo is still learning, but MU is not a place that can attract top-tier finished-product coaches.  Tony Bennett wasn’t interested last time, and that type of coach won’t be this time around.  Any MU coach will be an unfinished product.  I think we can all agree that next year’s roster will be his strongest.  Let’s see how that plays out.  Patience through the early years can result in loyalty as a coach develops into a sought-after name. 

[Cheeks]

In combat it is far more critical to know when to release than to press.

The same goes for strategic decision making in business. Staying the course is easy; charting a new direction is inherently difficult because of the uncertainty. But fear of the unknown is hardly a reason for not dealing with a problem.

It is time, people. At a visceral level we know Wojo is not the right guy. Wojo needs to go.

The BoT made a "safe" choice - the anti-Buzzard. It was the wrong choice.

What chaps my ass is that Hopkins was one of the finalists when the BoT hired Wojo. Hopkins is now building something special but it's not in Milwaukee.

Staying the course is often the most difficult thing to do, especially if the results aren’t what you want.  Strongly disagree with you. 

The question is whether staying the course is the correct strategy, but saying it is easy doesn’t make it so.  This is exactly why people use the Coach K analogy where staying the course was the tough decision, Duke fans wanted him fired, but the AD stayed the course and it worked out.  The easy decision would be to appease the fans, he didn’t...the rest is history.

Whether Hopkins is building something special or not only time will tell.

[Cheeks]

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=51574.msg830759#msg830759

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52652.msg873231#msg873231

Ok, anything more recent than 2016?

[21rooster]

He had every opportunity to throw guys under the bus over the last month and chose to shield the players from blame, to many posters’ dismay.  After this season, there is no logical argument that he throws players under the bus. 

[Cheeks]

He had every opportunity to throw guys under the bus over the last month and chose to shield the players from blame, to many posters’ dismay.  After this season, there is no logical argument that he throws players under the bus.

Yup, he defended each time and said this is on me.  At least publicly, and that’s where bus throwing happens.  In house discussions are a totally different matter where accountability to each other is key.

[tower912]

The basketball teams under Wojo have met my personal expectations every year.   Those expectations are based on my assessment of the relative talent of the players and the schedule.    And Wojo has run a clean program for the last 5 years.     Hard to run a coach with 3 20 win seasons in 5 years without a whiff of scandal.

My concerns are as I have stated before.    I have not seen magic/alchemy from him.    I have yet to see him make a team better than the sum of its parts.    What makes that worse is that I have not yet seen him get a team without significant weaknesses.    A team that has Duke-like talent doesn't HAVE to be more than the sum of its parts.    A team without that kind of talent does.   

This year, MU put out a team with:   one true guard, who had to play the point, though his skill set is that of a SG, but not the size.
A SG who was a decent but not all world defender, and erratic offensively
Two brothers at forward who had decent size, but were lacking speed. (IMO, partially due to rehabbing injuries.   Neither is a blazer, but I think they will be quicker next year.)
A second year 6'9 center who discovered blocking shots is fun, with a developing offensive game.
A grad transfer guard who flopped, leaving little guard depth or options.
A 6'6 back up center.
A freshman forward with two years of rust on his jump shot who did a lot of things right, except for the one thing he was noted for coming out of high school two years ago.
A sophomore forward who did not progress from his freshman year. 
Matt Heldt.

The team accomplished all it could with that particular set of talent and circumstances. 

I miss the Buzz alchemy.   I miss having a coach turn a weakness into a virtue.    I miss the teams playing with a chip on their shoulder and punching above their weight.     But that ship has sailed.   

I like about 70% of Wojo.   I like the recruiting.   I like how he represents Marquette.   I want that last 30%.    I want him to grow as a game coach.    I want him to find creative uses for his entire roster.    I want a 11 man rotation, not a Duke-like 7 man rotation. 


I still think he can get there.   

[Bocephys]

Glad to see you can use words.  Since when is being refered to as a millenial a personal attack?
Is being refered to as a post war babby boomer a personal attack?

Sure, if you're clever about it and I obtained any sense of self worth from what someone decided to arbitrarily label the years in which my parents did the nasty. 

Instead, this was all I saw:

[KampusFoods]

The basketball teams under Wojo have met my personal expectations every year.   Those expectations are based on my assessment of the relative talent of the players and the schedule.    And Wojo has run a clean program for the last 5 years.     Hard to run a coach with 3 20 win seasons in 5 years without a whiff of scandal.

My concerns are as I have stated before.    I have not seen magic/alchemy from him.    I have yet to see him make a team better than the sum of its parts.    What makes that worse is that I have not yet seen him get a team without significant weaknesses.    A team that has Duke-like talent doesn't HAVE to be more than the sum of its parts.    A team without that kind of talent does.   

This year, MU put out a team with:   one true guard, who had to play the point, though his skill set is that of a SG, but not the size.
A SG who was a decent but not all world defender, and erratic offensively
Two brothers at forward who had decent size, but were lacking speed. (IMO, partially due to rehabbing injuries.   Neither is a blazer, but I think they will be quicker next year.)
A second year 6'9 center who discovered blocking shots is fun, with a developing offensive game.
A grad transfer guard who flopped, leaving little guard depth or options.
A 6'6 back up center.
A freshman forward with two years of rust on his jump shot who did a lot of things right, except for the one thing he was noted for coming out of high school two years ago.
A sophomore forward who did not progress from his freshman year. 
Matt Heldt.

The team accomplished all it could with that particular set of talent and circumstances. 

I miss the Buzz alchemy.   I miss having a coach turn a weakness into a virtue.    I miss the teams playing with a chip on their shoulder and punching above their weight.     But that ship has sailed.   

I like about 70% of Wojo.   I like the recruiting.   I like how he represents Marquette.   I want that last 30%.    I want him to grow as a game coach.    I want him to find creative uses for his entire roster.    I want a 11 man rotation, not a Duke-like 7 man rotation. 


I still think he can get there.

You like the recruiting but your breakdown of the roster is an indictment of it.

[21rooster]

I get the idea that he hasn’t brought the magic that Buzz did, and I hope he eventually becomes a coach that gets more than the sum of the parts.  But I think part of that is his vision for the program.  He knew that Elliott could contribute this year, so the short-term approach would’ve to burn a year of eligibility just in case. In retrospect (given Howard’s hand and Chartouny), it might have been good to have Elliott available.  It probably would have helped in negotiating a better contract for himself.  At the time, though, he was making a decision that he thought was best for the long-term trajectory of the program.  I’m not sure the same approach was taken with Buzz, and thus we were left with the roster from Buzz’s last year.  When the emphasis  is on following his mentor’s footsteps and building something sustainable, we don’t always get the instant gratification that fits well with internet message boards. 

[tower912]

I get the idea that he hasn’t brought the magic that Buzz did, and I hope he eventually becomes a coach that gets more than the sum of the parts.  But I think part of that is his vision for the program.  He knew that Elliott could contribute this year, so the short-term approach would’ve to burn a year of eligibility just in case. In retrospect (given Howard’s hand and Chartouny), it might have been good to have Elliott available.  It probably would have helped in negotiating a better contract for himself.  At the time, though, he was making a decision that he thought was best for the long-term trajectory of the program.  I’m not sure the same approach was taken with Buzz, and thus we were left with the roster from Buzz’s last year.  When the emphasis  is on following his mentor’s footsteps and building something sustainable, we don’t always get the instant gratification that fits well with internet message boards.

Interesting argument.    Junior Cadougan vs Greg Elliott.      What about Duane, though?

[tower912]

You like the recruiting but your breakdown of the roster is an indictment of it.

I think a healthy Greg Elliott changes the calculus at guard.  He was good enough as a freshman playing one handed that there were those clamoring for him to start in place of Markus or Rowsey.  He averaged over 18 mpg.   With two good hands and assuming that Wojo was telling the truth that he was playing well enough to start before he was injured, how nice would it have been to have a 6'3 guard able to play 20 competent minutes a game?    I think Sam and Joey were still recovering from surgeries and were both a step slow from what they can be.   I think Brendan Bailey with a jump shot that went in during games would have changed overall line ups and rotation.    I accept that the offensive game of big men is a process.   

I thought that Wojo should have force fed Jamal and Matt more minutes early.    I think he shortened his rotation too soon.    But, just because I, a schmo on the internet, disagree with a rotational philosophy does not mean the man should be fired. 

[Jockey]

What the hell has Stan done? I have no idea on the love affair some on here have about him. If he was a top guy, he would be getting courted by decent programs.

It’s the same love affair people have with untested backup quarterbacks.

[Big Papi]

I am not a Wojo fan and would prefer to have someone else.  He is a good recruiter and I think he does a good job of getting players to improve their overall game but he severely lacks in game coaching skills. Its those in game coaching skills that separate a good coach from a very good coach.

With Wojo, I think, we will have a solid program.  We will make NCAA tournaments more times than not.  We should finish at worst middle of the pack in the Big East.  I don't anticipate making any deep runs in any tournaments.  It takes good coaching chops to achieve those runs consistently.  I don't see us winning any Big East Tournaments and winning a conference title will be a rare occurrence that will depend on other Big East rosters more than our own. 

Wojo is only going to be as good as his recruiting takes him.  He doesn't know how to adjust to his roster or how to adjust to in game situations consistently.  It was obvious this year that we had a very talented roster when compared to other Big East teams.  He got us on a roll early on but everyone else adjusted and he did not.  We can make excuses about nagging or season ending injuries, lack of a point guard, or lack of athleticism or hero ball but isn't that on Wojo?  He constructed the roster.  He decided to only go 7 deep with heavy minutes.  He decided to give players free reign on shot selection. 

I think we are at a crossroads here.  Do we stay on our current path?  Do we think he can overcome his deficiencies?  Recruit better?  Or do we pull the trigger and hire a new coach knowing that we will need a few years to rebuild with no guarantee that there will be better success.  Its a tough call to make.