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Author Topic: UCONN take  (Read 4349 times)

Aughnanure

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2023, 11:56:19 AM »
I've got to ask what you think Nebraska misses?  They get about 20m more revenue a year and far more broadcast access from the B10 Network than anything the Big 12 has.

Their fans miss winning. I don’t get why any fans would want to move. Their fans don’t get any extra money, their fans are going to see less wins and less big win seasons, their rivalries end, their costs to go to games likely go up as well.

Fans like winning and the bigger these conferences get the fewer fans get to win. Literally, someone explain why fans should care how much TV revenue their team gets. It’s all just fear of being left out of some unknown vague future college football system.

Outside of a few conference moves, this realignment era is short term thinking that risks long-term fan growth.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2023, 12:01:06 PM by Aughnanure »
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2023, 12:04:20 PM »
Their fans miss winning. I don’t get why any fans would want to move. Their fans don’t get any extra money, their fans are going to see less wins and less big win seasons, their rivalries end, their costs to go to games likely go up as well.

Fans like winning and the bigger these conferences get the fewer fans get to win. Literally, someone explain why fans should care how much TV revenue their team gets. It’s all just fear of being left out of some unknown vague future college football system.

Outside of a few conference moves, this realignment era is short term thinking that risks long-term fan growth.

Yet...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-attendance-rose-in-2022-with-largest-year-over-year-increase-since-1982/

And college football is usually the second most watched sport television ratings wise.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

connie

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2023, 12:19:12 PM »
I get why fans miss it, I just didn't pick up on that in Wade's post.  Hell, I still miss the full-bore Big East (with Syracuse Louisville, etc), but it's gone and its not coming back.
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The Lens

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2023, 01:25:08 PM »
Colorado is "possibly" the only school that might even consider regretting leaving the B12.  The others have a seat at the big boy table. 
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wisblue

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2023, 01:40:40 PM »
I can’t imagine UConn trying to compete in football in the B12.

I had the “pleasure” of seeing them play in person this year as part of a reunion weekend at one of my alma maters. The talent level between that team and a high level power conference team was grotesque. And I don’t see how playing in a power conference where most of the teams are located so far from their campus would help their recruiting.

It says something about the dilution of the bowl system that they were able to eke out enough wins to get into a low tier bowl. With a B12 conference schedule I woukdnt expect them to get close to bowl eligibility for a long time.

MU82

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2023, 01:41:22 PM »
If the money is what you would expect, UConn would be foolish to turn down that opportunity.

Then again, UConn't take it with you!
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Aughnanure

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2023, 02:03:51 PM »
Colorado is "possibly" the only school that might even consider regretting leaving the B12.  The others have a seat at the big boy table.

Nebraska fans 100% regretted it. Obviously less now with Oklahoma and Texas gone, but their last peak relevancy came when it was announced they were leaving to the B1G.

Sad thing is, Missouri, Texas A&M, and Nebraska would have preferred to stay but got so sick of Texas (and their lapdog OU) forcing unequal revenue sharing they pulled out right when they got the offer. If you remember, right before the Nebraska stuff and the Missouri/A&M stuff the next year the big rumor was Texas and OU and 2 others going to the Pac 10. They used the threat to get even more and the Longhorn Network.
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

muwarrior69

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2023, 02:05:31 PM »
Who cares if they stay or go. The Big East will survive either way.

wadesworld

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2023, 02:08:41 PM »
I guess I don't get the reasoning here.  Nebraska, Mizzou, and Colorado don't miss the Big 12 because even though they've become far worse athletic departments, they're sleeping on piles of cash.  But because UCONN won't compete in football in the Big 12 they should pass on piles of cash to remain an independent football program?

Will UCONN possibly be part of further conference realignment if they jump to the Big 12?  Of course.  Through the history of college athletics there's been conference realignment.  That's not going anywhere.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2023, 02:26:12 PM »
I guess I don't get the reasoning here.  Nebraska, Mizzou, and Colorado don't miss the Big 12 because even though they've become far worse athletic departments, they're sleeping on piles of cash.


They've become far worse athletic departments?  I don't know about that.  Missouri and Colorado were overall pretty mediocre in the B12 and they both are mediocre now. Their relative success and failures look to me more about the coaches in questions then conference affiliations.  For instance, Missouri replacing Mike Anderson with Frank Haith wasn't great...but then replacing Haith with Kim Anderson? Yikes.

As I said, a case could be made for Nebraska football losing its recruiting territory, but the rest of their programs are pretty much what they were before they moved conferences.

“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

wadesworld

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2023, 02:59:21 PM »

They've become far worse athletic departments?  I don't know about that.  Missouri and Colorado were overall pretty mediocre in the B12 and they both are mediocre now. Their relative success and failures look to me more about the coaches in questions then conference affiliations.  For instance, Missouri replacing Mike Anderson with Frank Haith wasn't great...but then replacing Haith with Kim Anderson? Yikes.

As I said, a case could be made for Nebraska football losing its recruiting territory, but the rest of their programs are pretty much what they were before they moved conferences.

From the time the Big 8 became the Big 12 and the times the program left, their football records were:

Nebraska: 139-55 (.716) overall, 81-39 (.675) in the Big 12, 75-72 (.510) overall, 47-55 (.461) in the B1G
Colorado: 93-91 (.505) overall, 60-60 (.500) in the Big 12, 48-94 (.338) overall, 27-76 (.262) in the Pac 12
Mizzou: 112-84 (.571) overall, 63-66 (.488) in the Big 12, 75-63 (.543) overall, 41-49 (.456) in the SEC

And the basketball records were:
Nebraska: 247-221 (.528) overall, 97-143 (.404) in the Big 12, 168-215 (.439) overall, 74-151 (.329) in the B1G
Colorado: 240-223 (.518) overall, 95-145 (.396) in the Big 12, 248-158 (.611) overall, 118-104 (.532) in the Pac 12
Mizzou: 322-199 (.618) overall, 139-119 (.539) in the Big 12, 176-178 (.497) overall, 74-122 (.378) in the SEC

So of their money making athletic programs, Nebraska's football and basketball programs are pretty significantly worse, Colorado's football program is significantly worse but their basketball program is significantly better (which surprised me), and Mizzou's football program is about the same but basketball program is significantly worse.
Black Lives Matter

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2023, 03:11:57 PM »
Right.

But I am not sure that is necessarily tied to conference affiliation. There were a lot of bad coaches decisions made by these programs as well. For instance, when Gary Pinkel left Missouri football after getting to two SEC championship games, they promoted Barry Odom from within.  That was a search that reportedly included the likes of Matt Campbell (Iowa State), Willie Fritz (Tulane) and Matt Rhule (who went on to Baylor.)  That was a terrible hire.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

mileskishnish72

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2023, 03:45:44 PM »
I can’t imagine UConn trying to compete in football in the B12.


True, true and true. They dropped megabucks on football and got nothing out of it but trouble on campus.

A B12-UConn marriage makes no sense. Yes, there's more money to be had but the fan base is likely to be alienated. The CT people I know are much more into hoops (men's and women's) than football.

Yet, people keep letting money interfere with their decision-making. If (unlikely) they do go, if it doesn't work out for them, again, I pray to God that the BE doesn't let them come crawling back with their tails between their legs again.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2023, 01:18:58 AM »
Nebraska fans 100% regretted it. Obviously less now with Oklahoma and Texas gone, but their last peak relevancy came when it was announced they were leaving to the B1G.

Sad thing is, Missouri, Texas A&M, and Nebraska would have preferred to stay but got so sick of Texas (and their lapdog OU) forcing unequal revenue sharing they pulled out right when they got the offer. If you remember, right before the Nebraska stuff and the Missouri/A&M stuff the next year the big rumor was Texas and OU and 2 others going to the Pac 10. They used the threat to get even more and the Longhorn Network.

Yeah...I TAMU wanted to go the SEC in the worst way. The revenue sharing didn't help but the SEC was gonna pay them more no matter what
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GoFastAndWin

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2023, 07:34:50 AM »
Then again, UConn't take it with you!

This is a brilliant take.

What shall it benefit them to gain the whole world but lose their hoops soul?

And maybe be another grass-is-greener Syracuse-like plunge into near irrelevance on both 🏈 🏀 fronts.

BallBoy

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2023, 09:04:27 AM »
Yet...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-attendance-rose-in-2022-with-largest-year-over-year-increase-since-1982/

And college football is usually the second most watched sport television ratings wise.

Misleading. The rise can attributed to people coming back from the pandemic to just slightly higher than 2019. They are measuring YOY when you have the lowest year in the prior year, the return to normal creates an abnormal rise. If you do a comparison of 2019 to 2022 the rise is negligible. 2021 was the first season and there were still a lot of restrictions and fear.


I think people are overestimating the draw of the Big 12. they lose two of their historic leaders leaving behind a mediocre football conference which will struggle to pull in marquee recruits.

WhiteTrash

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2023, 10:21:40 AM »
I think people are overestimating the draw of the Big 12. they lose two of their historic leaders leaving behind a mediocre football conference which will struggle to pull in marquee recruits.
You maybe right, but you maybe underestimating the Big 12 also. TX and OK haven't been a factor in the conference championship the past few years. And one of the  "mediocre" football programs was in the National Championship game.

Losing TX and OK hurts that conference, without a doubt. But -at this moment- the Big XII seems to be doing better than anyone not named SEC or Big 10.

Herman Cain

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2023, 11:59:42 AM »
My Guess is if U Conn got offered by the Big 12, they would accept without thinking twice . Just like the Bob Dylan Song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Y3KfJs6T0
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The Lens

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2023, 12:04:00 PM »
My Guess is if U Conn got offered by the Big 12, they would accept without thinking twice . Just like the Bob Dylan Song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Y3KfJs6T0

I'm not convinced you join a league that wanted Cinci and UCF before you.  With the Big East and football indepedence they know what they have.  There are a lot of unknowns with the Power Conferences not named Big 10 / SEC.
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

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wadesworld

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2023, 12:07:59 PM »
I'm not convinced you join a league that wanted Cinci and UCF before you.  With the Big East and football indepedence they know what they have.  There are a lot of unknowns with the Power Conferences not named Big 10 / SEC.

If you're not making a move because you're worried about further conference realignment, you'll probably end up in the equivalent of the Horizon League eventually.

Take the money and run.  Every conference is susceptible, including the Big East.
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GoFastAndWin

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2023, 01:47:05 PM »
I would not sell short the annuity that is the BigEast conference in favor of any lump sum.   I’m forced to invest the bulk of that cash in a market which places a premium on the competitive ability of my secondary business. And then exposes my primary business to long-term losses.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2023, 12:25:24 AM »
I'm not convinced you join a league that wanted Cinci and UCF before you.  With the Big East and football indepedence they know what they have.  There are a lot of unknowns with the Power Conferences not named Big 10 / SEC.

I'm not saying you're reasoning isn't sound, but the next school to turn down that big of a payday for changing conferences, will be the first one. Maybe eventually money will lose one, but is hasn't yet.
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muwarrior69

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2023, 08:14:59 AM »
It's been a pretty long run at this point. This is only one measure, but they have been KenPom's top rated conference 8/10 of the last ten years. The two times they weren't, they were second. I also have a feeling that their basketball success is a little more sustainable than you might think. Could definitely be wrong on that point.

You are right that being the basketball conference by itself is not a good reason for UConn to move. But it is also obviously a huge football upgrade for them. If the money is what you would expect, UConn would be foolish to turn down that opportunity. Fortunately, I don't think the B12 is interested in UConn at this point. Maybe that will change in the future.

The B12 TV  negotiations are still ongoing. What kind of money per school can they expect. The other consideration is the length of the contract which has not helped the ACC schools in the long run compared to the SEC/B1G. I'll concede that the payout of UCONN would be much higher in the B12 than the Beast, but my gut is telling me the B1G and SEC will be the only survivors down the road and Schools like UCONN could be on the outside looking in, again. If UCONN left do you think the Beast would take them back a second time?

I even wonder if March Madness as we know it will survive past 2032.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 08:17:38 AM by muwarrior69 »

Aughnanure

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2023, 09:56:15 AM »
Yeah...I TAMU wanted to go the SEC in the worst way. The revenue sharing didn't help but the SEC was gonna pay them more no matter what

Yeah, I simplified it too much there. TAMU had the little-brother syndrome going strong by then, but I'd still argue it was driven by Texas becoming just a full-fledged bully, threatening to leave in order to get even more favorable uneven revenue distributions (remember to the Pac-10 rumors and then B1G after it supposedly fell-thru).

TAMU is actually one of the only programs to have benefitted athletically from the switch so far. They had kind of become an afterthought for a while there and immediately hit the ground running in the SEC. Only other program I can think of that has seen benefits is Rutgers (not counting non P5/6 schools be added to P5).
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

Warrior of Law

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Re: UCONN take
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2023, 08:36:25 AM »
 Money remains undefeated vs loyalty. Likely water under the bridge, but I’d have to question whether the UCONN investment in football even comes close to breaking even.
"You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free."  Clarence Darrow

 

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