TBT 2018

[GGGG]

There are other rules you can change to get rid of the fouls at the end of games. Get rid of the one-and-one...give teams the option to inbound the ball instead of shooting FTs...let any player in the floor shoot FTs once you hit the double bonus...bring back the NBAs three to make two...

I think you can experiment with this in the NIT, but I don’t think it will work long term.

[TheyWereCones]

You said you haven't seen any reason people don't like the new format other than "it's weird."

Now you get a reason besides "it's weird" and you can't accept it because we haven't seen anything yet.

Guess you can't lose.

I simply don't buy the "every game has a game winner!  How exciting!"  Cool, a guy made a shot up 10 to end the game.  If he misses it, his team has 5 more chances to win the game even if the other team scores every time down on the other end of the court.

In order to see a fun comeback in this format the team in the lead needs to play awful basketball.  So even if you get your exciting comeback, it's sloppy basketball to make it happen.  Nothing about that is exciting.

Obviously those games would have ended differently, but you also can't possibly know how many other amazing endings we are missing out on too.  If your only argument on the new format is that it would take away endings like those, then we'll have to agree to disagree, because while I agree with you that those are great finishes, my whole point is that I don't think there would be any fewer great endings and there would actually be more in this format.  I guess I also just prefer that basketball be played the last ~4 minutes like the first 36, where both teams still have to score and get stops.

It seems like maybe you are against this idea that you'd be missing out on buzzer beaters, but I just think that in this format, every single one-possession game essentially ends on the equivalent of a buzzer beater, not just a handful of them.  For every one-possession game in the current format, the vast minority end on a made basket at the buzzer.  The other 99% end on a missed shot (often a launch from some ridiculous length like half court), or someone dribbling out the clock, etc.  Your argument about missing out on those buzzer beaters is just like casinos advertising by showing a person with bags of money and a huge smile on their face...yes, it happens, but that's what happens the least amount.  I don't need to look up the stats to back it up, because I know they would support the fact that the vast majority of one-possession games currently don't end with a made basket within the last 5 seconds (or however you would quantify a buzzer beater).  In this new format, it's guaranteed that every one-possession game ends that way.  I prefer 100% over whatever the other significantly less than 100% option is.

Even in the MU game today, which obviously wasn't a nailbiter, when MU had a chance to close it out, the fans were on their feet cheering for that last bucket, like a pitcher going for the last out.  In the normal format, do you disagree that this game goes into stall ball mode and ends completely uninterestingly, and possibly also contains a bunch of useless fouls that drag the misery out further?

Anyway, it's a fun conversation and I'll watch and still love college basketball either way.

[TheyWereCones]

I simply don't buy the "every game has a game winner!  How exciting!"  Cool, a guy made a shot up 10 to end the game.  If he misses it, his team has 5 more chances to win the game even if the other team scores every time down on the other end of the court.

In order to see a fun comeback in this format the team in the lead needs to play awful basketball.  So even if you get your exciting comeback, it's sloppy basketball to make it happen.  Nothing about that is exciting.

I suppose I never really responded to this part.  If a team hits a shot up 10 to win the game, obviously it's not all that exciting.  But how is the current format where they just dribble out the clock any more exciting?  At least if they are missing shots the other team still has a chance, and every made basket by the other team only starts to add pressure to the situation.

And your argument that the team in the lead would have to play awful basketball, how is that different from how it is now?  What kind of team with a big lead and who's playing well is allowing a team to get back into it as it stands today?  Or what if the team making the comeback is just playing really well those last few minutes?  I don't see how these arguments apply to one format and not the other.  Feel free to elaborate on how it's any different.

[MUDPT]

So you think a team that is down 11 with no time limit but has to stop the other team from scoring 7 more points would play the same way that they would if they were down by 11 with 2 minutes left?

No, they'd slow it down and try to get good looks every time down the court while with a time limit there's a sense of desperation and they have to execute without taking any time off the clock.  Which means they'd be relying on their opponent to play really bad basketball to give them a chance to come back to win.

See Marquette vs. Davidson.  Davidson played well down the stretch.  Marquette played better.  That was as exciting of a finish to a basketball game as I've ever seen.

Down 11 with 2 minutes to play, you have a 0.6% chance of winning a game. So yes, it would eliminate 6 awesome comebacks and prevent 994 incessant fouls, trips to the foul lines, unopposed drives to the basket, time outs.

[Nukem2]

I want basketball endings, not contrived endings.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

1. The rarity of buzzer beaters is what makes them special.  If every game ends on a made basket, it becomes less noteworthy.

2.  It can be just as exciting to end the game on a defensive stop.  See, Marquette vs Villanova.

3. Hard truth: Sometimes the end of a sporting event is boring.  How many football games end on a kneel down?  How many baseball games are out of reach by the 9th inning?  So what if some basketball games end with dribbling out the clock?  I can accept that not every game is going to an exciting finish.

4.  If you want to address the end of game fouling concerns, there are other ways to do that.  I like many of the ones Sultan listed.  I was already thinking about a couple of those.  Another idea is to actually call intentional fouls, instead of overlooking them in the final minute.

So while the Elam Ending can be fun and different, I do not see it as the best solution for how to end a basketball game.

[GGGG]

It would also help if college coaches knew when to throw in the towel like NBA coaches do. The NBA has its own issues with fouling, but at least they know when to just run out the clock.

[romey]

Just think how p!ssed off the fans would be if they couldn't leave early to beat the traffic.

[YoungMUFan4]

Might be a dumb question but are they selling tickets at the door or do you have to go through Ticketmaster?

[brewcity77]

I'd be fine with other solutions as well. If not for the Elam Ending, yesterday easily could've turned into a dull foul fest in the final minutes of both games. Close enough games that teams think they have a chance, but far enough away that it's going to look like any other drab ending. The basketball endgame has long needed a fix. Whether this is the decisive one or not, something should be done to keep the last 4 minutes from taking 15-30 of real life time.

[GGGG]

Something also should be done about the timeout situation at the end of games. Perhaps only allowing timeouts in dead ball situations.

[warriorchick]

Might be a dumb question but are they selling tickets at the door or do you have to go through Ticketmaster?

They are selling at the door.

[Jay Bee]

I tend to lean toward, "leave the game alone", but... was kind of thinking about AAU games and the idea of the Elam ending.. usually, there is no shot clock. Sometimes, late in games where one team has a nice advantage, they'll slow things up dramatically... pass it around and stall, stall stall.

When I'm watching AAU, I'm looking to see players playing in real situations... so, if a game gets out of hand, you might lose some minutes of evaluation opportunity... with the Elam ending, they'd need to keep pushing on offense...

Now that I think of it.. my work games are just up to 15 or 25 points... nothing timed about it, and it's still basketball. <shrug>

[#UnleashSean]

Anyone else going to the game today

[Nukem2]

I tend to lean toward, "leave the game alone", but... was kind of thinking about AAU games and the idea of the Elam ending.. usually, there is no shot clock. Sometimes, late in games where one team has a nice advantage, they'll slow things up dramatically... pass it around and stall, stall stall.

When I'm watching AAU, I'm looking to see players playing in real situations... so, if a game gets out of hand, you might lose some minutes of evaluation opportunity... with the Elam ending, they'd need to keep pushing on offense...

Now that I think of it.. my work games are just up to 15 or 25 points... nothing timed about it, and it's still basketball. <shrug>But, then it’s like changing the game to 17 or 27 mid-stream.  But, then, nobody is watching your work games.   

[brewcity77]

Anyone else going to the game today

Yup.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Anyvideo stream for game?

[MUDPT]

It would also help if basketball would play the advantage like every other sport. Cost us the 08 Georgetown game, when Wes could have dribbled out the clock and the ref called a little reach in.

[warriorchick]

Wojo in the house. Just saw him walk in with a giant cup of coffee in one hand and a gallon jug of water in the other.

[Newsdreams]

Anyvideo stream for game?

Only espn3

[Nukem2]

Lots of empty seats.

[Jay Bee]

Chatroom:

http://us21.chatzy.com/56874757820157

[GGGG]

Lots of empty seats.

Huh. Who wouldn’t want to watch a pick up game on a Sunday afternoon in the middle of summer?

[brewcity77]

Lots of empty seats.

Guessing it looks packed since they crammed all the fans on the same side. Disappointing that the target score displays are facing away from all the fans.

[warriorchick]

Guessing it looks packed since they crammed all the fans on the same side. Disappointing that the target score displays are facing away from all the fans.

It's so the players can see it.