Can you imagine no salt on the roads in Chicago, Milwaukee, NYC?

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's what is going on in Seattle right now.  Parts of the city are paralyzed because the city refuses to use salt on the roads this year, instead opting for sand.  What a mess.  Relatives up there are furious.  I guess it's an environmental decision, but what has happened is that the police cars (rear wheel drive) are using chains, but can't get up the hills in parts of the city.  So they're having to deploy on foot.

I was trying to figure out how long this policy would last in Chicago, NYC, or Milwaukee before the citizenry stormed city hall.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008551284_snowcleanup23m.html

[LON]

That's what is going on in Seattle right now.  Parts of the city are paralyzed because the city refuses to use salt on the roads this year, instead opting for sand.  What a mess.  Relatives up there are furious.  I guess it's an environmental decision, but what has happened is that the police cars (rear wheel drive) are using chains, but can't get up the hills in parts of the city.  So they're having to deploy on foot.

I was trying to figure out how long this policy would last in Chicago, NYC, or Milwaukee before the citizenry stormed city hall.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008551284_snowcleanup23m.html

Milwaukee refuses to pass the ban on smoking in public...this salt issue would be laughed out of the initial hearing on it.

[Hards Alumni]

it would last approximately zero days.

no one would even dare mention it.

seattle doesn't get NEAR the snowfall that the aforementioned cities get though.

[rocky_warrior]

seattle doesn't get NEAR the snowfall that the aforementioned cities get though.

Hah!  But Colorado does, and sand is still the preferred solution inside the cities.  They've finally started using Magnesium Chloride on the highways, but if you ask me it doesn't work nearly as well as salt (Sodium Chloride), and leaves a bigger mess.  Aside from the vehicle corrosion issue, I wish CO used salt like Chicago does.

[muwarrior87]

since it seems like anything under an inch or two, Milwaukee doesn't plow and just empties a Dead Sea amount of salt onto the roads, it will never happen in Milwaukee.

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

Wow.  I'm speechless.

I know it never snows like this in Seattle, but seriously, this is a public safety issue.   Unfortunately, all that Starbucks has killed some brain cells up there, and for what?  To save a couple of blades of grass?

I can't imagine the outcry in that city if someone was murdered and the cops could not get there because the streets were not properly cleared. 

[TallTitan34]

Actually I can imagine it.  Last year a small town near Milwaukee (forgot which one, MarqPTM may remember) ran out of salt towards the end of December.

The amount of salt Wisconsin puts down is very small compared to what I'm used to back home in Illinois.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I salt my driveway and sidewalk excessively and unnecessarily simply because I live in Madison and I figure that if I can piss off some local hippie then I won.   

[TallTitan34]

I salt my driveway and sidewalk excessively and unnecessarily simply because I live in Madison and I figure that if I can piss off some local hippie then I won.   

You should work at Marquette.   They put loads and loads of salt down on the sidewalks.  It's very enjoyable to walk on.  They put so much down they always have to re-sod the grass along the sidewalks come spring.

[muwarrior87]

i'm glad we've had a bunch of snow now when they don't do quite as thorough of a job at salting as they do when classes are in session.  Hopefully enough snow will fall that there will be a nice buffer between the edge of the cleared sidewalk and the grass that the amount of resodding wont be as much this year.

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

Actually I can imagine it.  Last year a small town near Milwaukee (forgot which one, MarqPTM may remember) ran out of salt towards the end of December.

The amount of salt Wisconsin puts down is very small compared to what I'm used to back home in Illinois.

There already is a shortage of salt and my small town here in Wisconsin never uses salt.  They are very big on sand.  Last spring sand covered my driveway, but luckily we had a flood to clean it off.   Much different then when I lived in Illinois and they salted like crazy.  There has been some talk about a beet/sand mixture that is environmentally friendly but costs 2-4 times what salt costs.  I think Madison is trying it on some of their streets, but good luck getting getting "normal" towns to pay extra when there already are huge budget deficits.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

There already is a shortage of salt and my small town here in Wisconsin never uses salt.  They are very big on sand.  Last spring sand covered my driveway, but luckily we had a flood to clean it off.   Much different then when I lived in Illinois and they salted like crazy.  There has been some talk about a beet/sand mixture that is environmentally friendly but costs 2-4 times what salt costs.  I think Madison is trying it on some of their streets, but good luck getting getting "normal" towns to pay extra when there already are huge budget deficits.

I get all of my beet juice deicer from Schrute Farms.  Highly recommend them.

[bma725]

You should work at Marquette.   They put loads and loads of salt down on the sidewalks.  It's very enjoyable to walk on.  They put so much down they always have to re-sod the grass along the sidewalks come spring.

Funny you mention that.  When I was in school I worked for Facilities Services and met the guys that MU hired to do the snow removal.  They worked for the same landscaping company that MU hired in the summer to replace the sod.  They used to joke that they would put down enough salt in the winter to create job security for the summer.

[Chili]

Here are some picture of a bus that slid down a hill in Seattle and almost went over the edge onto I-5. 2 blocks from my friends office.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bunnyspoons/

[RedWebster]

since it seems like anything under an inch or two, Milwaukee doesn't plow and just empties a Dead Sea amount of salt onto the roads, it will never happen in Milwaukee.

The snow removal in Milwaukee is horrendous.

[IAmMarquette]

The snow removal in Milwaukee is horrendous.

Worse in Chicago.

[TallTitan34]

In Illinois they actually go out before it starts snowing and salt. I can't speak for downtown Chicago but I know when I've traveled to the suburbs and a good amount into the city the roads were in much better shape than Wisconsin thanks to salting ahead of time.

[IAmMarquette]

In Illinois they actually go out before it starts snowing and salt. I can't speak for downtown Chicago but I know when I've traveled to the suburbs and a good amount into the city the roads were in much better shape than Wisconsin thanks to salting ahead of time.

I'm speaking for the city specifically. Milwaukee isn't great by any means, but Chicago is AWFUL when it comes to plowing snow. Case in point: I spent an hour yesterday (and an hour the previous night) digging my car out of its spot on the street--not because it got plowed in, but because the street was never plowed.

[reinko]

And yet another pissing contest begins between flatlanders and cheeseheads.

[PJDunn]

The main reason we don't salt in Seattle is the same reason we have a lack of snow removal equipment...because this type of cold snap is a once in a decade or more occurance.  The funny thing is that people who have no trouble navigating the passes in winter to go skiing lose their minds when the snow is at their front door steps.  Now back to the ched vs FIB exchange.

[mu_hilltopper]

Before you call your snow removal crappy .. just think about it for a moment.

The city you live in has X amount of snow plows.  When there's 6, 8, 10, 15 inches of snow, you can bet they have ALL of them going, prioritizing the main roads, then getting to the side streets later.

They aren't "bad" at snow removal.  They are using all the equipment the taxpayers bought.   It's simple math.  Miles of Street * 3 passes / MPH / Pieces of Equipment = how long it will take.

The only thing you can change is pieces of equipment. 

I've driven all around Milwaukee these past 2 weeks.  The main roads are plowed frequently, and are clear within 6 hours of the stoppage of snow.   There's like 1500 miles of streets to be plowed, and you gotta go down it 3 times to get it clear.  Of COURSE it takes 2-4 days to get to everything.   And the killer is, so far, every other day this week, we got another 3-6 inches of snow.  They could have plowed your street 3 times this week, and it would still look terrible.

So .. be mad at mother nature.  Or write out a big fat check to your city government for more plows.  Or move South.

[77ncaachamps]

So .. be mad at mother nature.  Or write out a big fat check to your city government for more plows.  Or move South.

Or West, but not Northwest or the Mountain West.

[chapman]

I've driven all around Milwaukee these past 2 weeks.  The main roads are plowed frequently, and are clear within 6 hours of the stoppage of snow.   There's like 1500 miles of streets to be plowed, and you gotta go down it 3 times to get it clear.  Of COURSE it takes 2-4 days to get to everything.   And the killer is, so far, every other day this week, we got another 3-6 inches of snow.  They could have plowed your street 3 times this week, and it would still look terrible.

So .. be mad at mother nature.  Or write out a big fat check to your city government for more plows.  Or move South.

Milwaukee plows their roads?  That's news to me.  Next someone's going to tell me they clean up the garbage that's littered all over town.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Here are some picture of a bus that slid down a hill in Seattle and almost went over the edge onto I-5. 2 blocks from my friends office.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bunnyspoons/

Good grief.  Can you imagine if that bus went over and killed some folks?  The lawsuits because the city isn't willing to use salt.  Sometimes environmentalism gets in the way of common sense.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The main reason we don't salt in Seattle is the same reason we have a lack of snow removal equipment...because this type of cold snap is a once in a decade or more occurance.  The funny thing is that people who have no trouble navigating the passes in winter to go skiing lose their minds when the snow is at their front door steps.  Now back to the ched vs FIB exchange.

All the more reason to salt rather then sand.  Get rid of the stuff quickly since people don't know how to drive in it.

I'm assuming when they go through the passes they use chains...maybe not?

Here in So.Cal no one has a clue how to drive when it's warm, imagine what happens when the rains start.  Absolute chaos.

[TallTitan34]

My freshman year I lived in Carpenter Tower and had a view of I-43 right outside my window.  I can't even count  how many times a car slid into the wall on the highway because of no salt or plowing. 

The best instance was when I saw a truck beginning to slide out and yelled for robmufan and marqptm to come check it out.  They had time to walk over to my room and see the truck before it hit the wall.

[dsfire]

People in Southern California are crazy over snow.  I was out there over Christmas week, and four feet of snow had dumped on Wrightwood in three days the previous week.  This spurred everyone from down below to drive up to the mountains and park on the shoulders of state highways to play in snow wherever they could, whether that was 10 feet from passing cars or in the middle of someone's yard.  They continued to do so well past sundown and even in spots where it was dirty, worn-down snow.

I mean hey, I like to play in the snow from time to time, but sledding into the highway in the dark is a different matter altogether. 

[🏀]

The best instance was when I saw a truck beginning to slide out and yelled for robmufan and marqptm to come check it out.  They had time to walk over to my room and see the truck before it hit the wall.

This indeed happened. However, with all respect to Milwaukee, WISDot is responsible for taking care of the freeways.

[ChicosBailBonds]

People in Southern California are crazy over snow.  I was out there over Christmas week, and four feet of snow had dumped on Wrightwood in three days the previous week.  This spurred everyone from down below to drive up to the mountains and park on the shoulders of state highways to play in snow wherever they could, whether that was 10 feet from passing cars or in the middle of someone's yard.  They continued to do so well past sundown and even in spots where it was dirty, worn-down snow.

I mean hey, I like to play in the snow from time to time, but sledding into the highway in the dark is a different matter altogether. 

Yeah, they are crazy about it.  It's something about driving an hour to get to the snow and then driving an hour the other way to go to the beach that has people wound up.  Personally, I'll take Colorado or Utah snow, or even Flagstaff, AZ.  Mammoth is ok, Tahoe is great, but overcrowded like everything else in this state.  Ugh.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My peeps in Seattle said the garbage is now piling up high in parts of the city because the sanitation trucks can't get to it due to lack of salting the roads.  I'm sure the rotting garbage is great for the enviornment.