MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on March 26, 2017, 03:48:40 PM
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Nobody else can survive SC's defensive pressure, either. Everybody else looks soft, too. SC gets touched, foul. SC bumps and hacks, good defense. Relentless to the basket, relentless on defense, being rewarded for their aggression. Eventually, they break their opponent's will.
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Nope. But that might just be me. I take no solace in how far our conquerers go, I'm just focused on what we do.
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No. Never been one to buy into the whole, "the team we lost to went on a run" mindset.
But I never really felt bad about the loss. We had an okay team that struggled mightily against the physical type of teams they are. It was never a good matchup, even if they played how they had been going into the Tournament. Add to it we were playing them in South Carolina and it makes it even tougher.
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Sounds like a description of Al's teams. Marquette's tradition is stifling defense. Sadly, we have lost that reputation.
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Just proves how good a team SC is and that defense wins a lot of tough games. Hope MU ramps up its D to this level sometme soon.
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Yes. I think I took their slumping at the end of their regular season as a sign of weakness. Any team Frank Martin coaches is going to be tough - look at his KState teams (minus a scrimmage). I underestimated them and perhaps voters and the selection committee did too.
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Sounds like a description of Al's teams. Marquette's tradition is stifling defense. Sadly, we have lost that reputation.
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I never felt that bad about MU's loss, either. I think MU will have the pieces to be tougher next year. Not SC tough, but tougher than MU was in 16-17.
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68 go in. Only one comes out and the gamecocks could be the 79th winner of Americas Hunger Games.
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Thornwell and Dozier are NBA prospects and have a good complement with Silva and the Europe kid Kotsar on the boards and in the paint. Felder and Polite are very good defenders also. They play well as a team and coming together at just the right time.
Very impressed with play of Silva, who was a three star recruit out of high school and has progressed to a major component of the team. Wish Heldt, a three star, could progress in that fashion.
Good game.
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I certainly don't feel worse. I'm very happy to see South Carolina make a deep run, and beat some very good teams along the way.
Having Duke, Baylor and Florida lose doesn't all of a sudden make our season more successful. But that's not terrible company to be in either. I feel much better than I would have if they would have gotten routed by Duke..
It could just be because I'm in an office with about 4 guys who went to Baylor. But they made the sweet 16, was the #1 team in the country at one point this season; played South Carolina on a neutral site, and got steamrolled from the tip.
Sometimes teams get hot. South Carolina is playing with confidence right now. Tip your cap.
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I expected our first round opponent to get destroyed in their next game and they ended up being good enough to get to the Final Four. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but o course I feel a little better.
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I expected our first round opponent to get destroyed in their next game and they ended up being good enough to get to the Final Four. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but o course I feel a little better.
+1 exactly.
I watched and was rooting for them.
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I expected our first round opponent to get destroyed in their next game and they ended up being good enough to get to the Final Four. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but o course I feel a little better.
Yep. Agreed.
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Bittersweet.
On one hand, it makes MU's loss more and more tolerable.
On the other hand, it seems more and more like a lost opportunity.
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Defense wins. Hopefully the folks on 12th street are paying attention.
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I expected our first round opponent to get destroyed in their next game and they ended up being good enough to get to the Final Four. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but o course I feel a little better.
Indeed.
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Defense wins. Hopefully the folks on 12th street are paying attention.
Well what's funny about that is South Carolina didn't start winning until their offense came around...
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Well what's funny about that is South Carolina didn't start winning until their offense came around...
Exactly. You need balance.
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Bittersweet.
On one hand, it makes MU's loss more and more tolerable.
On the other hand, it seems more and more like a lost opportunity.
I don't think I'm with you on this hand. South Carolina matches up with these other teams way differently than we would have. So yes it makes our loss more tolerable but in no way does it add to my "what could have been" sensation.
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Defense wins. Hopefully the folks on 12th street are paying attention.
Actually, on average, the national champion is better on offense than they are on defense.
However, most are quite good at both offense and defense.
So, defense doesn't "win"... but a crappy defense or crappy offense puts your team in a difficult spot relative to being GREAT
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Absolutely not...nothing should ever make you feel "good" or "better" about a loss. Personally to me, having a team like USC in the Final Four is a joke really..Are we really to believe they are one of the top 4 teams in the country?? I mean the possibility exists that we could have an Oregon(though I think/hope UNC puts that to rest) USC National Championship..that's quite honestly...disgusting. Who wants to see that National Championship??
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Absolutely not...nothing should ever make you feel "good" or "better" about a loss. Personally to me, having a team like USC in the Final Four is a joke really..Are we really to believe they are one of the top 4 teams in the country?? I mean the possibility exists that we could have an Oregon(though I think/hope UNC puts that to rest) USC National Championship..that's quite honestly...disgusting. Who wants to see that National Championship??
So you think the tournament should only have eight teams?
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Somewhat, yes.
South Carolina has shown that they are very tough to beat in this tournament. Way better than if Duke had handed them a 20 point loss.
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Actually, on average, the national champion is better on offense than they are on offense.
However, most are quite good at both offense and defense.
So, defense doesn't "win"... but a crappy defense or crappy offense puts your team in a difficult spot relative to being GREAT
National champions are, on average, better on offense than they are on offense?
#mindblown
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So you think the tournament should only have eight teams?
Only if those 8 teams pass an arbitrary 'brand' test for their basketball traditions.
I do feel better about loosing to a team that is very hot at the right time versus loose to a team that then gets steamrolled. I'm not a fan of So Car or Oregon, and i like Gonzaga only because of the similarities between institutions, but it is most definitely good for the sport that new blood makes it to the final four - it adds to the mystique of the tournament.
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So you think the tournament should only have eight teams?
Why stop at the Tournament? Clearly the only teams worthy of competing for a National Championship are Marquette for their dominance in 40 years ago, Indiana for theirs 20 year ago, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UCLA, and Louisville. Why waste anybody else's time? Just drop all basketball except for those teams. Allowing any other program to compet with them is an embarrassment to the game of basketball.
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Absolutely not...nothing should ever make you feel "good" or "better" about a loss. Personally to me, having a team like USC in the Final Four is a joke really..Are we really to believe they are one of the top 4 teams in the country?? I mean the possibility exists that we could have an Oregon(though I think/hope UNC puts that to rest) USC National Championship..that's quite honestly...disgusting. Who wants to see that National Championship??
Time to switch to decaf. The tourney is the most democratic of championships. Anybody making the final four earns and deserves it. The absolute opposite of disgusting. By your definition, Villanova winning it last year was a travesty.
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Absolutely not...nothing should ever make you feel "good" or "better" about a loss. Personally to me, having a team like USC in the Final Four is a joke really..Are we really to believe they are one of the top 4 teams in the country?? I mean the possibility exists that we could have an Oregon(though I think/hope UNC puts that to rest) USC National Championship..that's quite honestly...disgusting. Who wants to see that National Championship??
Two of the most likable teams in the entire tourney. What have you been watching? Oh, and they've both EARNED their trip to the FF
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It makes me wonder if MU played the 2nd half like they did in the 1st, could we be talking about our final four run right now? I stated at the start Marquette beats Duke, and watching SC only makes me believe that more.
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It makes me wonder if MU played the 2nd half like they did in the 1st, could we be talking about our final four run right now? I stated at the start Marquette beats Duke, and watching SC only makes me believe that more.
That was my first thought when SC beat Duke, but I don't think our offense could have overcame our defense 4 games in a row. Much less enough to beat Duke. Granted, SC probably could have said the same about their offense before playing us, and their offense came around.
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So you think the tournament should only have eight teams?
I would fully endorse only allowing champions into the tournament. Add a league, have the 32 conference champs get bids and an exemption from their conference tournament. The non conference champs play a tournament and the 32 winners also get bids. Seeds are given to leagues instead of teams, so each team goes into their league slot.
Then the NIT gets the 32 best at-large teams regardless of conference. It would create two viable, meaningful tournaments. But the NCAA wants 9 ACC teams, and 6 Big 10 teams, and so on. It'll never happen, but honestly, I think it'd be more fun and make March even better.
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It makes me wonder if MU played the 2nd half like they did in the 1st, could we be talking about our final four run right now? I stated at the start Marquette beats Duke, and watching SC only makes me believe that more.
Those are some serious homer glasses you're looking through. Marquette was a one trick pony. They didn't come close to having the pieces needed for a deep tourney run.
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I would fully endorse only allowing champions into the tournament. Add a league, have the 32 conference champs get bids and an exemption from their conference tournament. The non conference champs play a tournament and the 32 winners also get bids. Seeds are given to leagues instead of teams, so each team goes into their league slot.
Then the NIT gets the 32 best at-large teams regardless of conference. It would create two viable, meaningful tournaments. But the NCAA wants 9 ACC teams, and 6 Big 10 teams, and so on. It'll never happen, but honestly, I think it'd be more fun and make March even better.
why not seed the top 4 teams and have a triple elimination tourney? Wel, no one would watch that either.
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Delighted to see South Carolina do well. I hope they win it all. Makes our loss sting a little less.
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I would fully endorse only allowing champions into the tournament. Add a league, have the 32 conference champs get bids and an exemption from their conference tournament. The non conference champs play a tournament and the 32 winners also get bids. Seeds are given to leagues instead of teams, so each team goes into their league slot.
Then the NIT gets the 32 best at-large teams regardless of conference. It would create two viable, meaningful tournaments. But the NCAA wants 9 ACC teams, and 6 Big 10 teams, and so on. It'll never happen, but honestly, I think it'd be more fun and make March even better.
Ehh I dont like that at all. Watching 2 Horizon, Ivy league, and American league teams get hammered when they shouldn't be anywhere near the big dogs while also watching Duke in the NIT because UNC won the regular season and they lost in the finals of the conference tournament doesn't seem like a very competitive way of doing the NCAA tournament.
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Those are some serious homer glasses you're looking through. Marquette was a one trick pony. They didn't come close to having the pieces needed for a deep tourney run.
Agree, we overachieved, but our weaknesses would have been exposed.
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Absolutely not...nothing should ever make you feel "good" or "better" about a loss. Personally to me, having a team like USC in the Final Four is a joke really..Are we really to believe they are one of the top 4 teams in the country?? I mean the possibility exists that we could have an Oregon(though I think/hope UNC puts that to rest) USC National Championship..that's quite honestly...disgusting. Who wants to see that National Championship??
That's enough out of you for a while
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No, I don't want only 8 teams in the tourney, but I don't want 3 teams in the final Four that have essentially never been their either. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the tourney more than anything else, and I LOVE when the underdog pulls an upset or two, that's what makes it more fun...but after that, they need to bow out. You really think the ratings for a Oregon-USC National Championship would be very good?? Hell no. North Carolina is the most talented team in the country...talent should win out. They may still/should win it all, which would make everything right in the world again, but c'mon, you people could REALLY like USC/Oregon/Gonzaga in the national championship?? One of them could be holding the trophy at the end of the year as the "best" team in the country?? No. that's not the way it's supposed to work.
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No, I don't want only 8 teams in the tourney, but I don't want 3 teams in the final Four that have essentially never been their either. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the tourney more than anything else, and I LOVE when the underdog pulls an upset or two, that's what makes it more fun...but after that, they need to bow out. You really think the ratings for a Oregon-USC National Championship would be very good?? Hell no. North Carolina is the most talented team in the country...talent should win out. They may still/should win it all, which would make everything right in the world again, but c'mon, you people could REALLY like USC/Oregon/Gonzaga in the national championship?? One of them could be holding the trophy at the end of the year as the "best" team in the country?? No. that's not the way it's supposed to work.
Lol are you for real by your logic MU should not had won it in '77
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No, I don't want only 8 teams in the tourney, but I don't want 3 teams in the final Four that have essentially never been their either. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the tourney more than anything else, and I LOVE when the underdog pulls an upset or two, that's what makes it more fun...but after that, they need to bow out. You really think the ratings for a Oregon-USC National Championship would be very good?? Hell no. North Carolina is the most talented team in the country...talent should win out. They may still/should win it all, which would make everything right in the world again, but c'mon, you people could REALLY like USC/Oregon/Gonzaga in the national championship?? One of them could be holding the trophy at the end of the year as the "best" team in the country?? No. that's not the way it's supposed to work.
I LOVE my children, but only if they do exactly what I tell them to do at all times.
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No, I don't want only 8 teams in the tourney, but I don't want 3 teams in the final Four that have essentially never been their either. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the tourney more than anything else, and I LOVE when the underdog pulls an upset or two, that's what makes it more fun...but after that, they need to bow out. You really think the ratings for a Oregon-USC National Championship would be very good?? Hell no. North Carolina is the most talented team in the country...talent should win out. They may still/should win it all, which would make everything right in the world again, but c'mon, you people could REALLY like USC/Oregon/Gonzaga in the national championship?? One of them could be holding the trophy at the end of the year as the "best" team in the country?? No. that's not the way it's supposed to work.
Actually, that's exactly the way the NCAA tournament is supposed to work.
I can't believe you are on a chat board in the middle of the last game between blue bloods you'll see this year. PAY ATTENTION MAN! This is the real national championship - - - don't miss it.
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Yes , it makes me fell better. However, if makes me think we were really unlucky in who got with our first round matchup.
When they won today it made me wonder how many of our NCAA tournament losses were to a final four team?
We lost ot Purdue for a chance to go to final four.
We lost to NC St and Kansas in final four.
We lost to Syracuse for a chance to go to final four.
We lost to DePaul and they may of went to final four.
I not sure if the year we lost to Michigan St that they made the final four, but they were getting there pretty often.
We lost to Indiana in their undefeated season.
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No, I don't want only 8 teams in the tourney, but I don't want 3 teams in the final Four that have essentially never been their either. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the tourney more than anything else, and I LOVE when the underdog pulls an upset or two, that's what makes it more fun...but after that, they need to bow out. You really think the ratings for a Oregon-USC National Championship would be very good?? Hell no. North Carolina is the most talented team in the country...talent should win out. They may still/should win it all, which would make everything right in the world again, but c'mon, you people could REALLY like USC/Oregon/Gonzaga in the national championship?? One of them could be holding the trophy at the end of the year as the "best" team in the country?? No. that's not the way it's supposed to work.
So Marquette should never make another Final Four? Just get a few wins and then bow out?
Why would you want to watch the same teams win the tournament every year? To each their own but I love seeing the blue bloods fall to "lesser" programs in the tournament. Its what makes it the greatest tournament in all of sports. Any team can beat any team at any given moment. And when the underdog does it, that's it. They move on. There's no best of 7 series. No do overs. It is the biggest...dare I say...crapshoot in all of sport postseasons.
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I didn't feel that "bad" about the loss in the first place. Sucked for about 5 minutes but in that time I managed to meet up with friends at a bar for St. Patty's day. Had a great rest of the night. Honestly, South Carolina's run doesn't really do anything for Marquette. No one besides us bozos will remember who South Carolina's first round opponent was. After my bracket was busted, I was pulling for South Carolina just because they had just ended like a 13 year tournament drought. Nice to see a team come out of nowhere like that.
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No, I don't want only 8 teams in the tourney, but I don't want 3 teams in the final Four that have essentially never been their either. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the tourney more than anything else, and I LOVE when the underdog pulls an upset or two, that's what makes it more fun...but after that, they need to bow out. You really think the ratings for a Oregon-USC National Championship would be very good?? Hell no. North Carolina is the most talented team in the country...talent should win out. They may still/should win it all, which would make everything right in the world again, but c'mon, you people could REALLY like USC/Oregon/Gonzaga in the national championship?? One of them could be holding the trophy at the end of the year as the "best" team in the country?? No. that's not the way it's supposed to work.
You're entitled to your opinion, as absurd as it may be, so if you want to only see the UNCs and Kentuckys of the world ever make a National Title then more power to you. You will be suffering just about every single year in March.
Having said that, you obviously haven't watched Oregon play this year. Not only do they play a very fun style of play, but they are quite clearly one of the top teams in the country and have been all season long. In a conference with 3 top 7 teams, they won the regular season title (tied with Arizona but had the head to head tiebreak) and then lost in the tournament finals in a great game against Arizona less than 24 hours after losing a key piece of their rotation to a torn ACL. Other than a rocky start with their star player out due to injury to start the season, they have been in the top 10 all year long. They have gone 31-3 since Brooks has returned. The absolute only reason they are a 3 seed is because of the Boucher injury, which they have clearly adjusted to. Otherwise they probably beat Arizona and maybe steal Gonzaga's one seed. They absolutely deserve to be where they are. They just lead by double digits for about 21 minutes of their game against a team that was ranked in the top 4 throughout the entire year.
In terms of talent Brooks, Bell, Dorsey, Ennis, Pritchard, and Benson can absolutely match up with Pinson, Barry, Meeks, Hicks, Jackson, and Bradley. UNC's size will be a problem so my guess is they win, but it's beyond absurd to say that Oregon doesn't have talent.
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Absolutely not...nothing should ever make you feel "good" or "better" about a loss. Personally to me, having a team like USC in the Final Four is a joke really..Are we really to believe they are one of the top 4 teams in the country?? I mean the possibility exists that we could have an Oregon(though I think/hope UNC puts that to rest) USC National Championship..that's quite honestly...disgusting. Who wants to see that National Championship??
I think all of us on MUScoop have a poster or two that we NEVER seem to agree with and muguru is definitely mine. Just about every time I see an muguru post, I literally say huh? and am completely confused as to how someone can think the way they do. To each his own, but definitely such a vastly different way of not only looking at college basketball, but the world in general based on the way their thought process works.
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So Marquette should never make another Final Four? Just get a few wins and then bow out?
Why would you want to watch the same teams win the tournament every year? To each their own but I love seeing the blue bloods fall to "lesser" programs in the tournament. Its what makes it the greatest tournament in all of sports. Any team can beat any team at any given moment. And when the underdog does it, that's it. They move on. There's no best of 7 series. No do overs. It is the biggest...dare I say...crapshoot in all of sport postseasons.
No...What i want is MU to get to the point where they are legit FF contenders on a fairly regular basis. I want them to become elite.
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No...What i want is MU to get to the point where they are legit FF contenders on a fairly regular basis. I want them to become elite.
Yeah, but no one will watch.
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You're entitled to your opinion, as absurd as it may be, so if you want to only see the UNCs and Kentuckys of the world ever make a National Title then more power to you. You will be suffering just about every single year in March.
Having said that, you obviously haven't watched Oregon play this year. Not only do they play a very fun style of play, but they are quite clearly one of the top teams in the country and have been all season long. In a conference with 3 top 7 teams, they won the regular season title (tied with Arizona but had the head to head tiebreak) and then lost in the tournament finals in a great game against Arizona less than 24 hours after losing a key piece of their rotation to a torn ACL. Other than a rocky start with their star player out due to injury to start the season, they have been in the top 10 all year long. They have gone 31-3 since Brooks has returned. The absolute only reason they are a 3 seed is because of the Boucher injury, which they have clearly adjusted to. Otherwise they probably beat Arizona and maybe steal Gonzaga's one seed. They absolutely deserve to be where they are. They just lead by double digits for about 21 minutes of their game against a team that was ranked in the top 4 throughout the entire year.
In terms of talent Brooks, Bell, Dorsey, Ennis, Pritchard, and Benson can absolutely match up with Pinson, Barry, Meeks, Hicks, Jackson, and Bradley. UNC's size will be a problem so my guess is they win, but it's beyond absurd to say that Oregon doesn't have talent.
I never said Oregon isn't talented, they are, but my point was, they still haven't been to a FF since 1939. I do also like the way they play, but are they more talented then Kansas?? I don't think so..but that's my point, in a tournament setting, if you catch a top team on an off shooting night and you are hitting, odds are you will advance. That's what Oregon did, and kudos to them. But if Oregon and Kansas played 10 times, Kansas probably wins at least 7 of them.
That's my biggest issue with the tourney as a whole, too many people judge a team(s) based on how far they go in the tournament, and casual fans(and even some so called hardcore fans) think that because a team makes the final four, they MUST be one of the most talented, best teams in the country, when in reality it's the opposite..they got hot at the right time, had a good draw etc. It's such a crapshoot and should NEVER be used as a barometer for how good an underdog really is.
I mean in S. Carolina's case, there were some people down the stretch that felt that if everything fell right, they could have actually been left out this year. Look at Syracuse last year...should have never been in the tourney at all, yet made the FF. was that okay?? That's not the way it's supposed to be. I don't need all blue bloods in the FF every year, far from it..Look at Nova...#1 overall seed, gets a crap matchup with UW in Round two and don't even make the sweet 16..none of us liked that, did we?? Is S. Carolina more talented then Nova?? Absolutely not...heck is UW more talented then Nova?? Nope..Yet Nova was home after the first weekend, and UW just got done playing.
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I never said Oregon isn't talented, they are, but my point was, they still haven't been to a FF since 1939. I do also like the way they play, but are they more talented then Kansas?? I don't think so..but that's my point, in a tournament setting, if you catch a top team on an off shooting night and you are hitting, odds are you will advance. That's what Oregon did, and kudos to them. But if Oregon and Kansas played 10 times, Kansas probably wins at least 7 of them.
That's my biggest issue with the tourney as a whole, too many people judge a team(s) based on how far they go in the tournament, and casual fans(and even some so called hardcore fans) think that because a team makes the final four, they MUST be one of the most talented, best teams in the country, when in reality it's the opposite..they got hot at the right time, had a good draw etc. It's such a crapshoot and should NEVER be used as a barometer for how good an underdog really is.
I mean in S. Carolina's case, there were some people down the stretch that felt that if everything fell right, they could have actually been left out this year. Look at Syracuse last year...should have never been in the tourney at all, yet made the FF. was that okay?? That's not the way it's supposed to be. I don't need all blue bloods in the FF every year, far from it..Look at Nova...#1 overall seed, gets a crap matchup with UW in Round two and don't even make the sweet 16..none of us liked that, did we?? Is S. Carolina more talented then Nova?? Absolutely not...heck is UW more talented then Nova?? Nope..Yet Nova was home after the first weekend, and UW just got done playing.
Completely disagree. Oregon was clearly the better team than Kansas.
More talented? Well, South Carolina probably has more pros than Nova. And UW has 4 seniors who have been to 2 FFs and 2 more S16s. I would argue Nova actually probably had less talent than either of those teams. But that they were a better team.
It's sports. If you get yourself into the Playoffs anything can happen. Otherwise just make it the BCS and don't bother a Tournament. Which would be boring and stupid.
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It's a guards' game, ai-na?
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Back to the original question, I don't feel better about MU's loss, but I am more impressed with South Carolina. As noted during today's win, they've averaged just over 70 ppg in the tournament, as compared to something like 65 during the season. So, their offense has stepped up to rival their defense. Good for them.
What I was most struck by today, though, was the demeanor of Frank Martin as compared to Mike White. I though Martin was going to pop a vein or two, while White seemed so casual.
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I never said Oregon isn't talented, they are, but my point was, they still haven't been to a FF since 1939. I do also like the way they play, but are they more talented then Kansas?? I don't think so..but that's my point, in a tournament setting, if you catch a top team on an off shooting night and you are hitting, odds are you will advance. That's what Oregon did, and kudos to them. But if Oregon and Kansas played 10 times, Kansas probably wins at least 7 of them.
That's my biggest issue with the tourney as a whole, too many people judge a team(s) based on how far they go in the tournament, and casual fans(and even some so called hardcore fans) think that because a team makes the final four, they MUST be one of the most talented, best teams in the country, when in reality it's the opposite..they got hot at the right time, had a good draw etc. It's such a crapshoot and should NEVER be used as a barometer for how good an underdog really is.
I mean in S. Carolina's case, there were some people down the stretch that felt that if everything fell right, they could have actually been left out this year. Look at Syracuse last year...should have never been in the tourney at all, yet made the FF. was that okay?? That's not the way it's supposed to be. I don't need all blue bloods in the FF every year, far from it..Look at Nova...#1 overall seed, gets a crap matchup with UW in Round two and don't even make the sweet 16..none of us liked that, did we?? Is S. Carolina more talented then Nova?? Absolutely not...heck is UW more talented then Nova?? Nope..Yet Nova was home after the first weekend, and UW just got done playing.
Sorry... but I don't think you have the slightest inkling of what the tourney is and isn't supposed to be.
The best team isn't always the team that wins and the team that wins isn't always the best team. Perhaps you should stick to Globetrotter basketball, guru.
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I never said Oregon isn't talented, they are, but my point was, they still haven't been to a FF since 1939. I do also like the way they play, but are they more talented then Kansas?? I don't think so..but that's my point, in a tournament setting, if you catch a top team on an off shooting night and you are hitting, odds are you will advance. That's what Oregon did, and kudos to them. But if Oregon and Kansas played 10 times, Kansas probably wins at least 7 of them.
That's my biggest issue with the tourney as a whole, too many people judge a team(s) based on how far they go in the tournament, and casual fans(and even some so called hardcore fans) think that because a team makes the final four, they MUST be one of the most talented, best teams in the country, when in reality it's the opposite..they got hot at the right time, had a good draw etc. It's such a crapshoot and should NEVER be used as a barometer for how good an underdog really is.
I mean in S. Carolina's case, there were some people down the stretch that felt that if everything fell right, they could have actually been left out this year. Look at Syracuse last year...should have never been in the tourney at all, yet made the FF. was that okay?? That's not the way it's supposed to be. I don't need all blue bloods in the FF every year, far from it..Look at Nova...#1 overall seed, gets a crap matchup with UW in Round two and don't even make the sweet 16..none of us liked that, did we?? Is S. Carolina more talented then Nova?? Absolutely not...heck is UW more talented then Nova?? Nope..Yet Nova was home after the first weekend, and UW just got done playing.
It doesn't matter who is more talented, its about who plays better in the game and Oregon played better than Kansas
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I expected our first round opponent to get destroyed in their next game and they ended up being good enough to get to the Final Four. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but o course I feel a little better.
That's my feeling too. It doesn't matter in the big picture - I'm always miserable when MU's season ends, and it certainly won't make my summer any better if USC goes on to win.
Still, all things considered, I'd rather have USC still playing than not.
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I have enjoyed following SC since they beat us. Thornwell ... wow ... amazing to think he wasn't even mentioned in any mock drafts 2 weeks ago.
Does their run make me feel "better" about MU loss? Not exactly. I'm with those who wasn't especially crushed by our loss. It was a horrible matchup in what essentially was a road game. And we stuck with them for more than 30 minutes.
As for muguru's nonsensical diatribes ... what else is new?
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I don't think I'm with you on this hand. South Carolina matches up with these other teams way differently than we would have. So yes it makes our loss more tolerable but in no way does it add to my "what could have been" sensation.
Lost opportunity not based on the transitive property but lost opportunity to do what South Carolina did... shift into a new gear. As I've been opining since the Villanova win, this team had all of the makings of a team capable of making a deep run, but it had to find its identity, some confidence, someone to step up, a new gear, etc... something to allow the team to hit the next gear. Unfortunately, they shifted into neutral after the Nova win and tried to ride the momentum. But for all my optimism, I got the retorts of "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" and "teams don't change this late in the season" arguing that it just wasn't possible for MU to turn it up to 11.
But it is possible, because South Carolina did exactly what I was hoping MU would do. The opportunity was there - not necessarily to go to the Final Four (I agree with the doctrine of favorable matchups) - but to step up to the next level and at least transform the team into something more than a 10-seed that tied for 3rd place in the Big East.
Once MU bows out, I just want to see good basketball. At least I got that prayer answered.
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Lost opportunity not based on the transitive property but lost opportunity to do what South Carolina did... shift into a new gear. As I've been opining since the Villanova win, this team had all of the makings of a team capable of making a deep run, but it had to find its identity, some confidence, someone to step up, a new gear, etc... something to allow the team to hit the next gear. Unfortunately, they shifted into neutral after the Nova win and tried to ride the momentum. But for all my optimism, I got the retorts of "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" and "teams don't change this late in the season" arguing that it just wasn't possible for MU to turn it up to 11.
But it is possible, because South Carolina did exactly what I was hoping MU would do. The opportunity was there - not necessarily to go to the Final Four (I agree with the doctrine of favorable matchups) - but to step up to the next level and at least transform the team into something more than a 10-seed that tied for 3rd place in the Big East.
Once MU bows out, I just want to see good basketball. At least I got that prayer answered.
This is very reasonable, Benny.
I'm not sure MU had the personnel to enable it to "turn it up" as many notches as SC has, but certainly it could have ridden the Nova win better.
Then again ...
SC won 9 of 10 games to improve to 19-4 on Feb. 4. They were cookin' and looked to be capable of being more than a middling seed that would tie for 3rd in the SEC.
But they didn't exactly keep riding their momentum, as they finished the regular season in 3-5 swoon (with 2 wins coming over Miss State, the SEC's DePaul), followed by an 11-point, first-round SEC tourney flameout to Bama.
In other words, they had no momentum to ride into the NCAAs. I doubt SC fans expected much greatness from them.
They played us tough, hung in when we were shooting the lights out in the first half, and gradually started using their physical advantages to overpower us. And yet they still led us by only 5 with 7 minutes to go.
In those last 7 minutes, they showed the prowess that would carry over the next three games and take them to the Final Four.
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You're entitled to your opinion, as absurd as it may be, so if you want to only see the UNCs and Kentuckys of the world ever make a National Title then more power to you. You will be suffering just about every single year in March.
Having said that, you obviously haven't watched Oregon play this year. Not only do they play a very fun style of play, but they are quite clearly one of the top teams in the country and have been all season long. In a conference with 3 top 7 teams, they won the regular season title (tied with Arizona but had the head to head tiebreak) and then lost in the tournament finals in a great game against Arizona less than 24 hours after losing a key piece of their rotation to a torn ACL. Other than a rocky start with their star player out due to injury to start the season, they have been in the top 10 all year long. They have gone 31-3 since Brooks has returned. The absolute only reason they are a 3 seed is because of the Boucher injury, which they have clearly adjusted to. Otherwise they probably beat Arizona and maybe steal Gonzaga's one seed. They absolutely deserve to be where they are. They just lead by double digits for about 21 minutes of their game against a team that was ranked in the top 4 throughout the entire year.
In terms of talent Brooks, Bell, Dorsey, Ennis, Pritchard, and Benson can absolutely match up with Pinson, Barry, Meeks, Hicks, Jackson, and Bradley. UNC's size will be a problem so my guess is they win, but it's beyond absurd to say that Oregon doesn't have talent.
Wade believe me I really do get your sentiment here, but the UK, UNC, KU fans don't suffer even if they don't win it all. I know. As a Yankee fan seeing those 27 Championship flags fly over the stadium, not to mention the additional 13 AL Championship Flags is a cause for celebration and knowing that number 28 is not only possible but highly probable. Having said all that, watching the Cubs last fall was a baseball fans dream. So it is with the NCAA tournament.
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There are two things that seem obvious to me at this point:
1. South Carolina is a very good team and the fact that they dropped a few games in February doesn't change that. They are strong on both ends, well coached, and got the benefit of home court in the early rounds. I picked them over Marquette in my bracket with confidence (but wasn't going to say it here with fear of being called a troll) but am surprised that their run has gone this far. It absolutely makes our loss to them more palatable than if they had been blown out by 20 by Duke.
2. The NCAA tournament is the single best event on the sports calendar in my view and nothing should be changed (although the first four is stupid IMHO). The games this weekend were outstanding for the most part. Bracket mania is at an all-time high and improbable runs are exactly what makes this tournament so much fun. It is even better now because there are so many good teams capable of knocking off the top seeds.
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This is very reasonable, Benny.
I'm not sure MU had the personnel to enable it to "turn it up" as many notches as SC has, but certainly it could have ridden the Nova win better.
Then again ...
SC won 9 of 10 games to improve to 19-4 on Feb. 4. They were cookin' and looked to be capable of being more than a middling seed that would tie for 3rd in the SEC.
But they didn't exactly keep riding their momentum, as they finished the regular season in 3-5 swoon (with 2 wins coming over Miss State, the SEC's DePaul), followed by an 11-point, first-round SEC tourney flameout to Bama.
In other words, they had no momentum to ride into the NCAAs. I doubt SC fans expected much greatness from them.
They played us tough, hung in when we were shooting the lights out in the first half, and gradually started using their physical advantages to overpower us. And yet they still led us by only 5 with 7 minutes to go.
In those last 7 minutes, they showed the prowess that would carry over the next three games and take them to the Final Four.
This is very reasonable, Benny.
I'm not sure MU had the personnel to enable it to "turn it up" as many notches as SC has, but certainly it could have ridden the Nova win better.
Then again ...
SC won 9 of 10 games to improve to 19-4 on Feb. 4. They were cookin' and looked to be capable of being more than a middling seed that would tie for 3rd in the SEC.
But they didn't exactly keep riding their momentum, as they finished the regular season in 3-5 swoon (with 2 wins coming over Miss State, the SEC's DePaul), followed by an 11-point, first-round SEC tourney flameout to Bama.
In other words, they had no momentum to ride into the NCAAs. I doubt SC fans expected much greatness from them.
They played us tough, hung in when we were shooting the lights out in the first half, and gradually started using their physical advantages to overpower us. And yet they still led us by only 5 with 7 minutes to go.
In those last 7 minutes, they showed the prowess that would carry over the next three games and take them to the Final Four.
Ugh. I had to go back and look at the game log, but you're absolutely right... with 7:15 to go, we were only down 5. My brain must already be starting to repress the memory because it seemed like we were out of it well before that. Therefore, since I soon won't be able to remember the game at all, logically, I must be feeling better.
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Yes, makes me feel better. South Carolina is playing great. The farther they go, the better it makes me feel about our team and our future.
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Anyone with Kenpom subscription: Is there a tracker of what SC's rankings have been through the tournament?
They started with the #3 defense and are up to #2 in their rankings. I think their offense has moved a whole lot, I thought they started in the upper hundreds, but are now ranked 105 offensively.