MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: avid1010 on November 19, 2018, 09:01:02 AM
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I'm curious as to where most fans stand. I've been happy with Wojo's recruiting, the manner in which he and his players represent MU, and obviously want to see him be discussed as going to Duke rather than being fired. All the talk has been interesting, but not many are stating what they feel is required (different than expected) for them to feel comfortable with Wojo for another year.
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Safely in. If we get beat I'd say it's because the team doesn't have much ncaa experience or the matchup wasn't great. As long as we are safely in I'm content this year.
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Based on his relationship with Lovell, I think he gets one more year in any of the scenarios listed. If we are not safely in, I will be convinced that Wojo is not the man for the job, but would not expect him to be fired for another year because of the relationship with Lovell.
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Barring a complete disaster (no NIT), I see him here 1 more year for financial reasons. MU is already playing a dangerous game by not extending his contract but Wojo has not earned it. I can't fault the school for taking a wait and see approach.
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Barring a complete disaster (no NIT), I see him here 1 more year for financial reasons. MU is already playing a dangerous game by not extending his contract but Wojo has not earned it. I can't fault the school for taking a wait and see approach.
There's also the roster to consider. Might as well let Wojo play out one more year with Howard, Hauser, and Sacar as seniors.
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It will be an interesting question. My first thought was that I doubt he is fired for failing to meet season expectations for the first time so barring complete disaster he's getting another year. But strategically, it could be better to get a new coach after this season.
If you keep Wojo and then he doesn't do enough in 19-20 and fire him then, the new coach is going to have to rebuild immediately. That team will be losing its two best players in Markus and Sam, a solid role player in Sacar, and Ed who I don't know enough yet to know how big of a loss he will be. Plus you have whatever transfers come with the coaching change. We don't know at this point, but that could be another multi-year rebuild. My head might explode at that point.
If you cut ties, you hand the new coach a roster that on paper should be an NCAA level tournament team. It gives the coach a buffer year to do his own recruiting and get some credibility before building his own team. Similar to the situation that Buzz walked into. It could speed up the process considerably.
Ultimately it comes down to whether the administration thinks Wojo will be the guy at the end of the season. Fortunately, I think Wojo will make the decision for them. I'm still confident that we are dancing with a high seed this season.
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It will be an interesting question. My first thought was that I doubt he is fired for failing to meet season expectations for the first time so barring complete disaster he's getting another year. But strategically, it could be better to get a new coach after this season.
If you keep Wojo and then he doesn't do enough in 19-20 and fire him then, the new coach is going to have to rebuild immediately. That team will be losing its two best players in Markus and Sam, a solid role player in Sacar, and Ed who I don't know enough yet to know how big of a loss he will be. Plus you have whatever transfers come with the coaching change. We don't know at this point, but that could be another multi-year rebuild. My head might explode at that point.
If you cut ties, you hand the new coach a roster that on paper should be an NCAA level tournament team. It gives the coach a buffer year to do his own recruiting and get some credibility before building his own team. Similar to the situation that Buzz walked into. It could speed up the process considerably.
Ultimately it comes down to whether the administration thinks Wojo will be the guy at the end of the season. Fortunately, I think Wojo will make the decision for them. I'm still confident that we are dancing with a high seed this season.
I think even losing Sacar, Markus and Hauser we'd be fine for at least another year barring transfers we'd have a really solid experienced core with senior Koby, Theo, Jamal and Gregg. Not exactly all Americans but solid enough I'd expect a third bid
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I think with this roster he has to finish top 3 big east and not sweat out selection Sunday. If we aren't a bubble team on selection Sunday, I would think he should be able to get at least a win--but anything can happen.
Also no losses to the DePauls or Seton Halls of the world. Not this year.
I am hoping the IU and first 3/4ths of the PC game were aberrations for this season and due to incorporating new guys into the roster who are still learning their roles.
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I think even losing Sacar, Markus and Hauser we'd be fine for at least another year barring transfers we'd have a really solid experienced core with senior Koby, Theo, Jamal and Gregg. Not exactly all Americans but solid enough I'd expect a third bid
In the scenario I'm describing, the team hasn't made the tournament or barely made the tournament hence Wojo getting fired. A bubble/NIT team losing its two best players plus Sacar and Ed with likely no recruiting class because of coaching change is not going to be projected to make the tourney. If players like Koby, Theo, Jamal, and Greg play that well, Wojo is not likely to get fired.
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I don't think Wojo is even on the hot seat if MU somehow misses the tourney this season. But the seat definitely got warmer.
Hopefully this isn't an issue.
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Safely in. If we get beat I'd say it's because the team doesn't have much ncaa experience or the matchup wasn't great. As long as we are safely in I'm content this year.
Same
7 seed or better counts as safely in for me
Barring injury, need to be in contention for the league title going into the last week at the bare minimum. The league is way down this year, have to show you can take advantage of the opportunity especially when this is the year you've been building toward. 8-1 or better at home, 5-4 or better on the road. The pieces are there, have to make it work.
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Same
7 seed or better counts as safely in for me
Barring injury, need to be in contention for the league title going into the last week at the bare minimum. The league is way down this year, have to show you can take advantage of the opportunity especially when this is the year you've been building toward. 8-1 or better at home, 5-4 or better on the road. The pieces are there, have to make it work.
I'm thinking 6 seed or better but I'm pretty much with you.
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You left two options out:
Final 4
NCAA Champions
I am going with NCAA Champions.
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That wouldn't be enough for some.
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Depends. I think missing the NCAA we might as well boot him. That would be a pretty big disaster.
If we squeak in, I don't like it and it's not great long term, but the roster for next year is sufficiently stacked that even a sub-par coach should make a sweet 16 run.
So if we squeak in this year, keep him. If we squeak in this year AND next year - give him the boot then.
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Final Four + Daily delivery of Arbynator, Potato Cakes and Jamoca Shake.
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Barring a complete disaster (no NIT), I see him here 1 more year for financial reasons. MU is already playing a dangerous game by not extending his contract but
Can you explain this?
What dangerous game? That a Horizon League team might swoop in and take him away? Or am I missing something.
.. That being said, I also believe Wojo will be MU's coach for 3+ more years. We'll keep getting to 18ish wins, middle of the BE, bubble city, but we'll have a clean program and Dr. Lovell will leave well enough alone. Because Arby's.
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Barring some unforeseen scandal, Wojo will be the coach next year since they are returning everyone except Heldt and Cam.
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1SE
If you think next years squad is stacked, I would keep him. For me, I do not think we are stacked this year, and barring a 4-5 star recruit coming in, we will not be stacked next year. IMO, aside from MH and the Hausers, there are a slew of nice role players. It will take a great coaching job to get the most out of the talent assembled.
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1SE
If you think next years squad is stacked, I would keep him. For me, I do not think we are stacked this year, and barring a 4-5 star recruit coming in, we will not be stacked next year. IMO, aside from MH and the Hausers, there are a slew of nice role players. It will take a great coaching job to get the most out of the talent assembled.
I guess "stacked" by MU standards (which mainly means "old"). The kind-of consensus is that this is a talented roster that should be a top-half (if not top quarter) NCAA seed. Next year is basically the same roster but a year older. Presumably expectations for that roster should be at least as high (if not higher)
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Barring some unforeseen scandal, Wojo will be the coach next year since they are returning everyone except Heldt and Cam.
Tuny.
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Regardless of performance this year, I don't really seen any upside to making a change before the end of the 2019-2020 season (unless everyone involved just kind of gives up on it, a la 2013-2014). Let Wojo see this thing through with the Howard, Sam, Sacar group. Then, if the whole thing just doesn't pan out, bring someone else in, and be able to show candidates that Marquette gives coaches an entire recruiting cycle before changing directions (I think that's a big deal for MU given its profile, financial commitment, and the schools its competing with for coaches). The cupboard won't be bare, but I think an incoming coach has an easier time working with a senior class of versatile guys like Elliott and Cain than a team centered around Howard, anyway.
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Tuny.
Crap, good catch. I forgot about him. Doesn't change my thoughts though.
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Barring a complete disaster (no NIT), I see him here 1 more year for financial reasons. MU is already playing a dangerous game by not extending his contract but Wojo has not earned it. I can't fault the school for taking a wait and see approach.
MU will have to pay out 4 years on Wojo’s contract if they fire him. So I don’t want to see him fired . I would prefer the scenario where he is hired away by a Power 5 football program looking to revive its basketball fortunes.
I believe if Wojo gets the team into the NCAA this year he will be in the discussion when the annual coaching carousel comes around this spring. His biggest value to another program is his clean image. It may take a couple years though for the right job to open . In the meantime Wojo can keep cranking out performance like he has and his value only goes up.
I do hope a deal comes through from another school this year. As I believe we will lose Stan next year to a head coaching job.
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Barring a cheating scandal, a Larry Eustachy-like situation or a season with no postseason appearance, Wojo is going to keep his job.
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Herman
Are you serious? I actually felt badly for Wojo at halftime when Bill R. and the Fox crew were trying to spin a positive Wojo story. Wojo is on nobody's radar as new hire for next year. Clean image is great, but that is not going to have suitors knocking down his doors. After all the recent scandals, clean is now the rule at 90% of the programs. It is now a given, not a hope for many schools.
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He stays this year.
Next year he has an experienced squad, along with a standout transfer. This will be the "drawing the line" year to determine his status. BUT,
The 2020 recruiting class is just loaded and MU is involved with a lot of Top 10 and Top 20 players. One of these days MU is due to sign some highly ranked kids and they won't be former MU Targets. MU loses Howard, Sacar, Sam and Morrow, leaving significant holes, even with Cain, Theo, Joey, etc returning.
Lets say Wojo during the course of next year, gets some of these highly ranked recruits to commit, yet he has a substandard year. Do they release Wojo and jeopardize having the recruits change their mind. I know, I know, its just a scenario, but think about it, something like this could happen to change the barometer.
HERMAN, my friend, clean image? keep cranking out performance like he has? value goes up? Please think before typing.
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Herman
Are you serious? I actually felt badly for Wojo at halftime when Bill R. and the Fox crew were trying to spin a positive Wojo story. Wojo is on nobody's radar as new hire for next year. Clean image is great, but that is not going to have suitors knocking down his doors. After all the recent scandals, clean is now the rule at 90% of the programs. It is now a given, not a hope for many schools.
If Wojo has a solid year, including an NCAA birth, he will be mentioned for coaching searches next year. Especially if a place like Wake Forest opens up. Nothing high level but P5 programs? Sure.
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Sultan
Much of the discussion the past week is if he will keep his job at MU and not making a destination change. It it a a bit of a reach that he would be sought out after this season. I would be more shocked that he would be a candidate elsewhere than him getting axed here. Keep in mind, I think he has zero chance of being replaced at MU after this season or next season.
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Can you explain this?
What dangerous game? That a Horizon League team might swoop in and take him away? Or am I missing something.
I should have explained; the danger is a coach being asked to recruit at a high level when he's contract is ending before the recruit's 4 years are up. Wojo's recruiting,not coaching, has carried him to this point at MU and he will be or is dealing with negative recruiting from other coach's with better job security.
IMO, the idea of Wojo being hired away, especially by a P5 school, is laughable. He will either succeed at MU (my hope) or will be back on Coach K's bench.
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Five star recruits are flocking to Arizona while Sean Miller’s name is all over an FBI investigation. High school kids aren’t worried about the number of years left on a coach’s contract.
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Five star recruits are flocking to Arizona while Sean Miller’s name is all over an FBI investigation. High school kids aren’t worried about the number of years left on a coach’s contract.
I would agree if MU was recruiting "one and done's". Also Miller's coaching resume dwarfs Wojo's.
If your assertion is correct then would you support letting Wojo run through his contract before giving him an extension?
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I expect that a NCAA bid should be the benchmark. If this team misses completely, that should be it. I don't know that MU's administration would have the same minimum expectation.
But personally, if we don't see a 7-seed or better, I'll personally be ready to start looking at candidates. We should not be a bubble team this year. 8 or worse, if it were me, I'd be looking up Luke Yaklich's number in the Rolodex.
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Five star recruits are flocking to Arizona while Sean Miller’s name is all over an FBI investigation. High school kids aren’t worried about the number of years left on a coach’s contract.
Not number of years left on contract, I never said that. Players committ, coach let go before player arrives, player changes mind. Happens all the time.
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I think its pretty obvious administration wise he'll be here next year if we finish better than .500....next year is the hot seat.
my opinion: Stays only if we get into the Big Dance (bubble or no).
There's a math formula..Coach starts at 0 beginning of this year:
"Bubble-In + 0/1 win" = +0
"Sweet16" or "Solid-In" = +1
NIT or less = -1
DePaul Year = -3
"Elite 8" = +2
"Final 4+" = +3
As soon as he goes negative, He's gone!
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Herman
Are you serious? I actually felt badly for Wojo at halftime when Bill R. and the Fox crew were trying to spin a positive Wojo story. Wojo is on nobody's radar as new hire for next year. Clean image is great, but that is not going to have suitors knocking down his doors. After all the recent scandals, clean is now the rule at 90% of the programs. It is now a given, not a hope for many schools.
It is pretty much the laws of supply and demand. There are simply not that many viable candidates for high major jobs. Wojo , if he performs at similar levels to the last 3 years this year, pretty much becomes a viable candidate for a P5 football school type job. Look at the Georgia coaching job. They hired Coach Crean, as he was pretty much the only high major experience guy out there, the rest of the viable candidates were mid major guys.
If Wojo has a solid year, including an NCAA birth, he will be mentioned for coaching searches next year. Especially if a place like Wake Forest opens up. Nothing high level but P5 programs? Sure.
Obviously there were many reasons Buzz left when he did, but part of his calculus was that he knew he had a limited shelf life as being a highly desirable coach. If Wojo can parlay his current job into a Crean level deal he would be hard pressed to turn it down. 6 years at $3.2mm
https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2018/03/19/former-marquette-basketball-coach-tomcrean-signs-6.html
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Where is the option of “Jalen Johnson verbals to Marquette”?
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...if Floor Slapper will allow it.
There are so many variables. If major transfers out occur, we don’t reach the tourney, performance is brutal... then OK.
But, the truth is even in a scenario where the tourney is not reached, CURRENTLY next year looks even better on paper than this year. You don’t blow that up for stupid reasons like losing early in the tourney
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I'm curious as to where most fans stand. I've been happy with Wojo's recruiting, the manner in which he and his players represent MU, and obviously want to see him be discussed as going to Duke rather than being fired. All the talk has been interesting, but not many are stating what they feel is required (different than expected) for them to feel comfortable with Wojo for another year.
Need to start beating the big boys.
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Tired of polls that don't offer the entire spectrum of options.
Tired of infrequent (ie only when we lose) posters bombarding scoop with negative threads that all say basically the same thing.
Tired of entitled fans who believe that they somehow deserve something even though all they did was graduate from Marquette.
Scoop hasn't been a great place for the last week. Since we'll likely get creamed by Kansas tomorrow, I'll poke my head in next week and see if the place is more livable.
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Tired of polls that don't offer the entire spectrum of options.
Tired of infrequent (ie only when we lose) posters bombarding scoop with negative threads that all say basically the same thing.
Tired of entitled fans who believe that they somehow deserve something even though all they did was graduate from Marquette.
Scoop hasn't been a great place for the last week. Since we'll likely get creamed by Kansas tomorrow, I'll poke my head in next week and see if the place is more livable.
Are you going to the 508 tomorrow?
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Cooking for 26 on Thursday. Probably not.
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Cooking for 26 on Thursday. Probably not.
Mmmmm... please PM me the recipe for creamed Kansas, it sounds delicious.
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...if Floor Slapper will allow it.
There are so many variables. If major transfers out occur, we don’t reach the tourney, performance is brutal... then OK.
But, the truth is even in a scenario where the tourney is not reached, CURRENTLY next year looks even better on paper than this year. You don’t blow that up for stupid reasons like losing early in the tourney
Allowed JayBee. Ha.
You have been very bullish on this year's team, as I recall your expectation was Top 15/Sweet 16? That said:
If we miss the tournament this year, do you let Wojo coach the guys next year too when will have 5 years of data on his ability as a head coach at that time?
Or do you hand the team off to a guy like Stan (or search out another coach with a proven track record of being able to coach), and let him walk into a team that has serious potential - especially if married to a go who can coach?
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Mmmmm... please PM me the recipe for creamed Kansas, it sounds delicious.
Markus goes for 50 and we foul Azubuike 20 times.
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Tired of polls that don't offer the entire spectrum of options.
Tired of infrequent (ie only when we lose) posters bombarding scoop with negative threads that all say basically the same thing.
Tired of entitled fans who believe that they somehow deserve something even though all they did was graduate from Marquette.
Scoop hasn't been a great place for the last week. Since we'll likely get creamed by Kansas tomorrow, I'll poke my head in next week and see if the place is more livable.
You could not be more wrong about me or why I started this poll. Happy Thanksgiving! Sorry I upset you...was curious to talk about 5 years of wins/losses rather than one game.
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Cooking for 26 on Thursday. Probably not.
Big deal.
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Watching Brian Wardle & Bradley about to upset SMU. Expected solid defense, but they are really good at driving inside to open up looks outside. They'll be interesting to follow this year.
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Tired of polls that don't offer the entire spectrum of options.
Tired of infrequent (ie only when we lose) posters bombarding scoop with negative threads that all say basically the same thing.
Tired of entitled fans who believe that they somehow deserve something even though all they did was graduate from Marquette.
Scoop hasn't been a great place for the last week. Since we'll likely get creamed by Kansas tomorrow, I'll poke my head in next week and see if the place is more livable.
Tired of posters who brag about staying away from Scoop after a bad loss to avoid the negativity.
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Watching Brian Wardle & Bradley about to upset SMU. Expected solid defense, but they are really good at driving inside to open up looks outside. They'll be interesting to follow this year.
Wardle doing a good job at Bradley.
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Tired of posters who brag about staying away from Scoop after a bad loss to avoid the negativity.
I've only seen Mom and I post along those lines. You must not have much stamina.
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Tired of posters who brag about staying away from Scoop after a bad loss to avoid the negativity.
The whole point of message boards is they are a place for people to lose their s&6$t when the team loses.
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The whole point of message boards is they are a place for people to lose their s&6$t when the team loses.
I agree with this analysis.
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The whole point of message boards is they are a place for people to lose their s&6$t when the team loses.
You do you, MUFINY.