Gonzaga

[Galway Eagle]

I like the idea of adding Gonzaga but don't they only average like 6,000 fans a game?  I'm pretty sure that's even less than Depaul. 

[PJDunn]

Gonzaga's fan base in the NW is huge.  In many respects they get better coverage and support in Seattle than Marquette does in Milwaukee.  Loserville has done pretty well over the last several years establishing a NW pipeline. Maybe Buzz will be able to chip in on that a bit.  I would love to see GU in the C7.  I would take Santa Clara over St Mary's.  More upside with our Jesuit friends in the south Bay.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The Bottom Line in this case is very much the Bottom Line. Zags get a lot more than better TV revenues. This leverages their already solid brand in many ways and that delivers multiple incremental revenue streams. Their objective is improving BB which will improve their Bottom Line. The C7 does that.

As for travel costs for BB, look at their current mileage. Joining the C7 is not that much more. Look at their non-conf schedule. It is aggressive and national. Joining the C7 allows them to play more cupcakes at home since conf play addresses RPI issues.

Zags are in for BB. And that is good for Marquette.

Totally understood.  What I think people are ignoring is that this isn't only a basketball conference and I would find it odd that the WCC would allow Gonzaga to remain for everything, but basketball.  We shall see.  We can all pretend that this is only about basketball, but the great drain on resources comes from everything else...the sports that don't earn any revenue or very little, but all have a negative P & L against the department. 

It's also more than just about travel, it's about actually playing teams in your own regional area for rivalries, alums, students actually going to class. 

I do, however, think you VASTLY understate their travel when you say it's not that much more.  It is more, a lot more.  The longest conference trip Gonzaga makes today is 1325 miles to San Diego, in the same time zone.   You can double that to Providence for a game against PC at 2,750 miles.  That's just one way...lots of time on airplanes, away from school, exhaustion, cost, etc. 

Current arrangement...all teams in their time zone except BYU
Spokane to San Diego 1325 miles (USD)
Spokane to Los Angeles 1204 miles (play two schools, LMU and Pepperdine)
Spokane to San Francisco 875 miles  (play three schools..Santa Clara, USF, St. Mary's)
Spokane to Provo 763 miles (BYU)
Spokane to Portland 352 miles (Portland)

Compared to

Spokane to Providence 2,748 miles (Providence)...three time zones away
Spokane to New York 2,575 miles (St. John's and Seton Hall)...three time zones away
Spokane to Philadelphia  2,543 miles (Villanova)...three time zones away
Spokane to Washington, D.C. 2,485 miles (Georgetown)...three time zones away
Spokane to Milwaukee 1,714 miles (Marquette and DePaul)...two time zones away

In short, the shortest trip in the conference they would make is farther than the longest trip they make today.  The travel isn't close.  Now do the same exercise for the volleyball, soccer, women's hoops, etc, teams.   That's a lot of time that those athletic administrators will have to consider if it is worth it and whether the toll on the season puts them at a competitive disadvantage, especially late in the year. 

[GOO]

I do think it will require an unbalanced schedule. Less games against the east coast teams and more against the midwest teams.  If they have a travel partner, obviously that will be a home and home.

Chicos, do you just see it as not workable and not a good fit?  Or are you just pointing out the issues/negatives?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I do think it will require an unbalanced schedule. Less games against the east coast teams and more against the midwest teams.  If they have a travel partner, obviously that will be a home and home.

Chicos, do you just see it as not workable and not a good fit?  Or are you just pointing out the issues/negatives?

I think it is workable for the C7 schools.  However, if I were in Gonzaga's shoes, I'm not sure I see it benefiting their athletic department or basketball program.  I view this as a former athletics administrator.

They will continue to dominate the WCC and get to the NCAA tournament. They have a national program now, without the C7.  They play schools in their time zone where their alumni live.  Now they would be playing schools 2, 3 time zones away, double the travel distance, wear and tear on athletes, classroom time...what to do with their other sports...costs...rivalries...alumni considerations, etc.  I'm not questioning why the C7 would want to do this...that's a no brainer.  I'm wondering why Gonzaga would want to do this.  The money will be better, but do the tradeoffs make it worth it?  That is a question they will have to answer.

If you look at where their alumni reside outside of Washington, it's heavily clustered in San Fran, Portland, Los Angeles, Denver, and San Diego.  Those alumni all get to see the Zags play every year, sometimes multiple times except for the Denver contingent.  Now, they're toast.  That's one of the reasons if I were Gonzaga I would demand another WCC school into the mix...St. Mary's would be fine by me.  Gives you another big market for the conference, helps them out with travel and some alumni...but it doesn't sit as well with the C7.

[keefe]

Totally understood.  What I think people are ignoring is that this isn't only a basketball conference and I would find it odd that the WCC would allow Gonzaga to remain for everything, but basketball.  We shall see.  We can all pretend that this is only about basketball, but the great drain on resources comes from everything else...the sports that don't earn any revenue or very little, but all have a negative P & L against the department. 

It's also more than just about travel, it's about actually playing teams in your own regional area for rivalries, alums, students actually going to class. 

I do, however, think you VASTLY understate their travel when you say it's not that much more.  It is more, a lot more.  The longest conference trip Gonzaga makes today is 1325 miles to San Diego, in the same time zone.   You can double that to Providence for a game against PC at 2,750 miles.  That's just one way...lots of time on airplanes, away from school, exhaustion, cost, etc. 

Current arrangement...all teams in their time zone except BYU
Spokane to San Diego 1325 miles (USD)
Spokane to Los Angeles 1204 miles (play two schools, LMU and Pepperdine)
Spokane to San Francisco 875 miles  (play three schools..Santa Clara, USF, St. Mary's)
Spokane to Provo 763 miles (BYU)
Spokane to Portland 352 miles (Portland)

Compared to

Spokane to Providence 2,748 miles (Providence)...three time zones away
Spokane to New York 2,575 miles (St. John's and Seton Hall)...three time zones away
Spokane to Philadelphia  2,543 miles (Villanova)...three time zones away
Spokane to Washington, D.C. 2,485 miles (Georgetown)...three time zones away
Spokane to Milwaukee 1,714 miles (Marquette and DePaul)...two time zones away

In short, the shortest trip in the conference they would make is farther than the longest trip they make today.  The travel isn't close.  Now do the same exercise for the volleyball, soccer, women's hoops, etc, teams.   That's a lot of time that those athletic administrators will have to consider if it is worth it and whether the toll on the season puts them at a competitive disadvantage, especially late in the year. 

You are forgetting the 10 national games they play each year. Add in the mileage from those games and replace them with cupcakes at home. GU goes everywhere in Nov - Dec in order to boost RPI and address questions about them playing in the WCC. All that pre-season travel, except Tournaments, goes away since they play a legitimate conference schedule.

[MU82]

I like the idea of adding Gonzaga but don't they only average like 6,000 fans a game?  I'm pretty sure that's even less than Depaul. 

And Duke, arguably the most successful program in the nation for two-plus decades, averages "only" 9500.

So?

[🏀]

And Duke, arguably the most successful program in the nation for two-plus decades, averages "only" 9500.

So?

Let's remember what doesn't matter in conference alignment.

Butts in seats at home games or how well a school travels. It doesn't matter.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are forgetting the 10 national games they play each year. Add in the mileage from those games and replace them with cupcakes at home. GU goes everywhere in Nov - Dec in order to boost RPI and address questions about them playing in the WCC. All that pre-season travel, except Tournaments, goes away since they play a legitimate conference schedule.

Not forgetting those because those are often played over breaks with limited classroom impact (Thanksgiving break, Christmas break, etc).  Many of those are destination games as well.  In other words, you go and hunker down for 4 days and play three games.  Conference games, however, are played while the kids are in school and have a material impact on class time.   Again, maybe it's just the former administrator in me, but that would be of a concern of mine from a cost, student time away, alumni perspective.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'll have to dig into their tv deal next week.  We own Root Sports Seattle which covers Gonzaga games along with KHQ out there. 

[keefe]

I like the idea of adding Gonzaga but don't they only average like 6,000 fans a game?  I'm pretty sure that's even less than Depaul. 

You're piping the wrong notes! The Kennel seats 6,000 and is one of the great home courts in NCAA hoops. It was the largest arena in the WCC until BYU joined last year. GU has only lost 7 games at the Kennel. Phenomenal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=xr6BQ9mcxXs&feature=endscreen

[Dr. Blackheart]

Not forgetting those because those are often played over breaks with limited classroom impact (Thanksgiving break, Christmas break, etc).  Many of those are destination games as well.  In other words, you go and hunker down for 4 days and play three games.  Conference games, however, are played while the kids are in school and have a material impact on class time.   Again, maybe it's just the former administrator in me, but that would be of a concern of mine from a cost, student time away, alumni perspective.

There are flip sides too...one, like some others, is to spread out conference play throughout the season leaving more conferences games over break...another is for sports like baseball, where games need to happen in warm weather areas like Florida or CA over Spring Breaks anyway so GU or SMC would offer a positive solution for them.  Omaha hosts the College World Series already.  CA is also a hot bed of Volleyball along with the Midwest...so a good match.  Soccer seasons start before school...so again conference games with long travel can be knocked off with less disruption.  

I am a proponent of the Zags for hoops...the rest will settle itself.  But another factor that you may want to comment on Chicos is there that there is only so much money in the networks' pots..and they already have paid more to the BCS conferences...what and who is left?  Obviously the BE pot is there...but now there are two conferences to fight over those scraps...the other pots to steal from are the A10 and CUSA...but also the WCC led by GU and SMC.  As a result, the C7/BE, it seems, needs to take the cream of the A10 and WCC.  The Football BE has already taken the cream and the skim milk of CUSA.

[Galway Eagle]

And Duke, arguably the most successful program in the nation for two-plus decades, averages "only" 9500.

So?

Idk some people were hating on me when I mentioned Belmont and one of the arguments was about attendance so I thought I'd mention it. 

[Galway Eagle]

You're piping the wrong notes! The Kennel seats 6,000 and is one of the great home courts in NCAA hoops. It was the largest arena in the WCC until BYU joined last year. GU has only lost 7 games at the Kennel. Phenomenal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=xr6BQ9mcxXs&feature=endscreen

Huh had no idea about that type of amazing home court advantage or the size of it.  It can't be hard to be the largest in that conference when you have a bunch of tiny schools though.  And the fun video to go with the post just brightened my day. 

[Mr. Nielsen]

I like the idea of adding Gonzaga but don't they only average like 6,000 fans a game?  I'm pretty sure that's even less than Depaul. 

Gonzaga new arena only holds 6,000. So, they sell out every game. They play one home game in Seattle and can get over 14,000 for that game.

[Galway Eagle]

Gonzaga new arena only holds 6,000. So, they sell out every game. They play one home game in Seattle and can get over 14,000 for that game.

Thanks, after the 20 other posts of people stating that they can only fit 6,000 I understand I didn't do enough research. 

[keefe]

Huh had no idea about that type of amazing home court advantage or the size of it.  It can't be hard to be the largest in that conference when you have a bunch of tiny schools though.  And the fun video to go with the post just brightened my day. 

If you look around the BEAST there are several snake pits:


UConn, The Gamp (10,167)  

DePaul, Allstate Arena (18,500)

Georgetown, McDonough Arena (2,400)

Louisville, KFC Yum! Center (22,000)

Marquette, Bradley Center (18,600)

Notre Dame, The Joyce (9,149)

Pittsburgh, The Pete (12,508)

Providence, Dunkin' Donuts Center (12,410)

Rutgers, the Sweet Lou  (8,000)

St. John's, The Lou (5,602)

Seton Hall, The Pru (9,800)

South Florida, Sun Dome (10,411)

Syracuse, Carrier Dome (33,633)

Villanova, The Pavilion (6,500)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYrxxkHM9Fw

[GGGG]

If you look around the BEAST there are several snake pits:

...

DePaul, Allstate Arena (18,500)

For a placid snake that loves empty, largely quiet places I guess...

[Galway Eagle]

If you look around the BEAST there are several snake pits:


UConn, The Gamp (10,167)  

DePaul, Allstate Arena (18,500)

Georgetown, McDonough Arena (2,400)

Louisville, KFC Yum! Center (22,000)

Marquette, Bradley Center (18,600)

Notre Dame, The Joyce (9,149)

Pittsburgh, The Pete (12,508)

Providence, Dunkin' Donuts Center (12,410)

Rutgers, the Sweet Lou  (8,000)

St. John's, The Lou (5,602)

Seton Hall, The Pru (9,800)

South Florida, Sun Dome (10,411)

Syracuse, Carrier Dome (33,633)

Villanova, The Pavilion (6,500)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYrxxkHM9Fw

Interesting... and according to my source the Bradley Center is 18,850 for college games. 

[foreverwarriors]

If you look around the BEAST there are several snake pits:


Georgetown, McDonough Arena (2,400)

As a point of reference, Georgetown plays very few games at McDonugh...none this year in fact. And when they do play, its against low level schools. Villanova splits their time between the Pavilion and the Wells Fargo Center in Philly.

[keefe]

As a point of reference, Georgetown plays very few games at McDonugh...none this year in fact. And when they do play, its against low level schools. Villanova splits their time between the Pavilion and the Wells Fargo Center in Philly.

I know. I listed all the BE home courts for sake of perspective. McDonough and The Pav are the official home courts, though.

[tominsalem]

And St. John's plays at the Garden.
You're reaching.

Go Johnnies.

[Galway Eagle]

Kinda wish we'd just built the Mcguire center a bit bigger and had our scrub home games there. 

[🏀]

Kinda wish we'd just built the Mcguire center a bit bigger and had our scrub home games there. 

Except all the lost revenue from the season ticket holders left in the dust.

[Galway Eagle]

Except all the lost revenue from the season ticket holders left in the dust.

Didn't we build the Al around when we moved to the BC?