I'm Optimistic

[MU82]

I have a pretty good idea how long rebuilds can take.  I just painfully watched one take 7 seasons under Wojo and never produce much of anything outside of 1 unbelievable offensive player in Markus Howard.  Who, by the way, made a large portion of the Wojo era at least incredibly entertaining to watch. 

Shaka was a big name hire.  I expected him to put together a more talented roster in year 1.  The entire landscape of college basketball was completely different than ever fore last offseason, and Shaka mostly flopped with respect to bringing in impact transfers.  We got a couple nice role players, but no truly impact players.  And it shows.  Yes -  I get the whole "culture building" crap, but I don't personally love the strategy when winning games is what really matters.  You can build culture all you want, but half these guys that have freshman eligibility won't be here in a few years anyway.  Build a team to win each season.  I hope he focuses more on that before next season.

This is a legitimate criticism if it's what you believe (and you obviously do). I'm guessing that MU hierarchy did not put the pressure on Shaka to produce an NCAA tournament team in Year 1, and if they had he wouldn't have taken the job.

[Dr. Blackheart]

3,192 days and counting.

Can we add a ticker?

[MU82]

You left out that the new guy went the previous 6 years without an NCAA win

8 years, actually.

His string of years without any NCAAT wins coincides directly with ours ... and will continue to do so until either he wins an NCAAT game in his present position or leaves MU (or is asked to leave).

[Scoop Snoop]

Re-read it in teal.

OK, I've been had. Not the first time, not the last.  :

[panda]

Panda,  I would bet that was a completely sarcastic post.  Especially the part about just being glad the players are having fun.

Lol - Put me in the category of Wojo broken brain syndrome. You probably don't need to dig too deep to find someone posting something like this year three of the Wojo era.

[GoldenEagles03]

This is a legitimate criticism if it's what you believe (and you obviously do). I'm guessing that MU hierarchy did not put the pressure on Shaka to produce an NCAA tournament team in Year 1, and if they had he wouldn't have taken the job.

How much more talent could you ask for on a year 1 roster?

They got impact transfers (Darryl, Kur and OMax), retained an NBA player in Justin, and had a Top 20 Freshman class in America.

Do you need to be reminded of what Wojos year 1 roster looked like?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

This is a legitimate criticism if it's what you believe (and you obviously do). I'm guessing that MU hierarchy did not put the pressure on Shaka to produce an NCAA tournament team in Year 1, and if they had he wouldn't have taken the job.

Look, I don't think Shaka should have been required to put together an NCAA team his first season "or else". I just personally am not really impressed with the team he put together.  I think he focused too much on building a culture in a time in which culture is fleeting due to open transfers, and not enough on recruiting impact players.  That's it.  Doesn't mean I don't like him, or I am not a huge fan of the program, or see a bright future.  I am just not impressed with this roster, and I don't think next season (as we sit with a completely incomplete picture 10 months away from the season starting) looks any better.  I don't doubt I will at some point be impressed.  I just had higher hopes on a quick turnaround based on the level of coach we acquired.

I also have lost confidence that winning is all that important to the "MU hierarchy".  This is the same group that allowed Wojo to go 59-68 in Big East games with zero NCAA tournament wins before they made a change.  During that time, MU has mostly been relegated to at best a middle of pack Big East program, and mostly irrelevant in the overall CBB landscape since Buzz's days. 

Again - excited for the future.  Like Shaka.  Think he's the right guy.  Don't love his first 10 months of the job.  That's OK.  Not everyone has to be RAH-RAH all the time. 

[bilsu]

Who do you think was the right guy?

I wanted Moser. Oklahoma is 9-2 and he has two top 100 recruits for next year. However, Oklahoma has not played a conference game.

[bilsu]

8 years, actually.

His string of years without any NCAAT wins coincides directly with ours ... and will continue to do so until either he wins an NCAAT game in his present position or leaves MU (or is asked to leave).

I could not understand replacing Wojo with someone that could do no better in the last 8 years.
Moser just seemed like the logical choice to me.

[bilsu]

How much more talent could you ask for on a year 1 roster?

They got impact transfers (Darryl, Kur and OMax), retained an NBA player in Justin, and had a Top 20 Freshman class in America.

Do you need to be reminded of what Wojos year 1 roster looked like?

This roster is fine for the time Shaka had to put this year's team together. The problem as I see it is next year's recruiting class, so far, is not improving this team.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

How much more talent could you ask for on a year 1 roster?

They got impact transfers (Darryl, Kur and OMax), retained an NBA player in Justin, and had a Top 20 Freshman class in America.

Do you need to be reminded of what Wojos year 1 roster looked like?

Kur and OMax are definitely not impact players.  Kur is role player, and OMax is project.  Morsell is a really good role player and was by far the best add.  But he was brought in to be batman, or at least Robin.  A role he clearly isn't suited for.

[Uncle Rico]

This roster is fine for the time Shaka had to put this year's team together. The problem as I see it is next year's recruiting class, so far, is not improving this team.

I don’t think these are illegitimate concerns

[4everwarriors]

I wanted Moser. Oklahoma is 9-2 and he has two top 100 recruits for next year. However, Oklahoma has not played a conference game.

Marquette in total is not Oklahoma in total. This is not all on the coach, hey?

[NolongerWarriors]

How much more talent could you ask for on a year 1 roster?

They got impact transfers (Darryl, Kur and OMax), retained an NBA player in Justin, and had a Top 20 Freshman class in America.

Do you need to be reminded of what Wojos year 1 roster looked like?

Kur and Omax are "impact" transfers?  Morsell had an impact the first few games and disappeared.

Curious what you think about the recruiting class for next year so far?

[Shooter McGavin]

Marquette in total is not Oklahoma in total. This is not all on the coach, hey?

Go on…..?  Not a football school?  Not a basketball school that can get back to an elite level?  Don’t be cryptic. 

[GoldenEagles03]

Kur and Omax are "impact" transfers?  Morsell had an impact the first few games and disappeared.

Curious what you think about the recruiting class for next year so far?

Anyone dismissing Kur as an impact transfer is quite honestly ridiculous...go cheer for Duke, my goodness.

He leads the Big East in blocked shots and is absolutely a problem for teams to plan for.

OMax, sure a project, but he's started games and played major minutes. Impact.

As far as recruiting class next year. Sean Jones is the 17th best PG in his class. The only thing holding him back from the Top 10 or even 5 is his size. He is an elite talent. Chase Ross will probably be one of the more athletic guards in the Big East. Unteachable combination of size and athleticism. They will both absolutely make this team better.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Anyone dismissing Kur as an impact transfer is quite honestly ridiculous...go cheer for Duke, my goodness.

He leads the Big East in blocked shots and is absolutely a problem for teams to plan for.

OMax, sure a project, but he's started games and played major minutes. Impact.

As far as recruiting class next year. Sean Jones is the 17th best PG in his class. The only thing holding him back from the Top 10 or even 5 is his size. He is an elite talent. Chase Ross will probably be one of the more athletic guards in the Big East. Unteachable combination of size and athleticism. They will both absolutely make this team better.

I think your definition of impact is what is ridiculous.  Kur is averaging 19 minutes a game and 5 points.  He's a useful role player.  That is it.

THat being said - I am not really siding with this NoLonger troll in his overall negativity.  Guy is unbearable and clearly not a fan.  But Shaka did in fact leave plenty to be desired on his "impact" transfers.

[tower912]

Anyone dismissing Kur as an impact transfer is quite honestly ridiculous...go cheer for Duke, my goodness.

He leads the Big East in blocked shots and is absolutely a problem for teams to plan for.

OMax, sure a project, but he's started games and played major minutes. Impact.

As far as recruiting class next year. Sean Jones is the 17th best PG in his class. The only thing holding him back from the Top 10 or even 5 is his size. He is an elite talent. Chase Ross will probably be one of the more athletic guards in the Big East. Unteachable combination of size and athleticism. They will both absolutely make this team better.

Eventually.

[GoldenEagles03]

I think your definition of impact is what is ridiculous.  Kur is averaging 19 minutes a game and 5 points.  He's a useful role player.  That is it.

THat being said - I am not really siding with this NoLonger troll in his overall negativity.  Guy is unbearable and clearly not a fan.  But Shaka did in fact leave plenty to be desired on his "impact" transfers.

He is 9th in the country in Total Blocks. He is top 3 in the country in Blocks per40 minutes.

That's not just impact, that's major impact. You don't have to score points to make an impact.

[Pakuni]

He is 9th in the country in Total Blocks. He is top 3 in the country in Blocks per40 minutes.

That's not just impact, that's major impact. You don't have to score points to make an impact.

Being good at one limited thing, and one limited thing only, is the very definition of a role player.

[MU82]

Look, I don't think Shaka should have been required to put together an NCAA team his first season "or else". I just personally am not really impressed with the team he put together.  I think he focused too much on building a culture in a time in which culture is fleeting due to open transfers, and not enough on recruiting impact players.  That's it.  Doesn't mean I don't like him, or I am not a huge fan of the program, or see a bright future.  I am just not impressed with this roster, and I don't think next season (as we sit with a completely incomplete picture 10 months away from the season starting) looks any better.  I don't doubt I will at some point be impressed.  I just had higher hopes on a quick turnaround based on the level of coach we acquired.

I also have lost confidence that winning is all that important to the "MU hierarchy".  This is the same group that allowed Wojo to go 59-68 in Big East games with zero NCAA tournament wins before they made a change.  During that time, MU has mostly been relegated to at best a middle of pack Big East program, and mostly irrelevant in the overall CBB landscape since Buzz's days. 

Again - excited for the future.  Like Shaka.  Think he's the right guy.  Don't love his first 10 months of the job.  That's OK.  Not everyone has to be RAH-RAH all the time.

Again, as I said earlier, if one is gonna criticize Shaka -- and we certainly are free to do so on a fan board -- this is the most legit criticism of him.

The simple fact is that other first-year coaches also facing major rebuilds -- most notably the guys at Iowa State and Arizona -- look to have been able to rebuild far better and faster than Shaka has at Marquette. At least so far. So your criticism/concern is valid IMHO.

Will it translate into more of the same next year, when Shaka will have had more time to get better recruits and transfers? We'll see. Right now, the only grade I can give that is "incomplete."

I like to think nobody expects you (or anyone else) to be "RAH-RAH all the time." We have Scoopers who went in assuming that Shaka would be worth numerous wins every season just because of his Shakiosity; and we have a few mopes who think he was a terrible hire for a variety of reasons (including at least one twat who doesn't like Shaka's skin tone). There's a lot of ground in between, and it appears your middle ground is excited for the future but wanting to see more sooner.

I'm in a similar camp, though I'm probably just a little more patient than you in that I didn't really expect much this season -- so we've actually exceeded my expectations so far. If we're not playing like legitimate Big East contenders at this time next season, that'll be a whole 'nother thing for me.

[GoldenEagles03]

Being good at one limited thing, and one limited thing only, is the very definition of a role player.

As opposed to what a Superstar? No one is saying he is that, but he is a major impact player. Especially for this team. They'd be a heck of a lot worse off without him.

A great pickup for Shaka in year 1.

[NotAnAlum]

I also have lost confidence that winning is all that important to the "MU hierarchy".  This is the same group that allowed Wojo to go 59-68 in Big East games with zero NCAA tournament wins before they made a change.  During that time, MU has mostly been relegated to at best a middle of pack Big East program, and mostly irrelevant in the overall CBB landscape since Buzz's days. 

I think this statement totally ignores the situation under Wojo.  Up until the end of the 2018-2019 season the "MU hierarchy" had every reason to believe Wojo's program was heading the right direction.  Mostly irrelevant  Maybe you forgot that in mid February 2019 MU was leading the Big East, ranked in the top 10 and we were talking about certainly a top 4 and maybe even a #2 seed.  AND assuming that team returned their base of players as expected they would have started Fall 2019 ranked in the top 5.  Then Hausergate happened.  I don't think they could be expected to fire Wojo due to that single incident.
Then the next season was a disaster but if you recall it ended with the NCAA tournament being canceled and and many people thinking the world was going to end.  So of course you don't fire your coach in that situation.
Then the next season was another late season melt down of a team that wasn't that good to start with.  AND They fired Wojo and which required buying out his contract.  To my way of thinking that was truly first opportunity the "MU hierarchy" to try to fix this situation AND THEY DID IT at a cost of millions of $$.
So be upset with Shaka if you want but please lets stay away from this revisionist history nobody at MU cares if the program wins or loses because it simply ignores the situation they had to deal with. 

[GoldenEagles03]

I think this statement totally ignores the situation under Wojo.  Up until the end of the 2018-2019 season the "MU hierarchy" had every reason to believe Wojo's program was heading the right direction.  Mostly irrelevant  Maybe you forgot that in mid February 2019 MU was leading the Big East, ranked in the top 10 and we were talking about certainly a top 4 and maybe even a #2 seed.  AND assuming that team returned their base of players as expected they would have started Fall 2019 ranked in the top 5.  Then Hausergate happened.  I don't think they could be expected to fire Wojo due to that single incident.
Then the next season was a disaster but if you recall it ended with the NCAA tournament being canceled and and many people thinking the world was going to end.  So of course you don't fire your coach in that situation.
Then the next season was another late season melt down of a team that wasn't that good to start with.  AND They fired Wojo and which required buying out his contract.  To my way of thinking that was truly first opportunity the "MU hierarchy" to try to fix this situation AND THEY DID IT at a cost of millions of $$.
So be upset with Shaka if you want but please lets stay away from this revisionist history nobody at MU cares if the program wins or loses because it simply ignores the situation they had to deal with.

In that season that was a 'disaster' Marquette was ranked in the top 20  at 19th in America through the week of 02/17/20.

[Spotcheck Billy]

When comparing AZ and IA State to MU this year, Shaka has a very young roster, AZ does have a fairly young roster also but IA State only has 1 freshmen. Perhaps after this year IA State will have to rebuild with more youth while Shaka's team experience pays dividends.