2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[ChicosBailBonds]

Simmons suspended by ESPN for calling Goodell a liar. Wow.

A bit more than that.  He called out his superiors...big no no....lucky he wasn't fired.  Secondly, his profanity laced tirade over Goodell when he offers no proof that he lied is not good either.  At the end of the day, ESPN has the journalism side of the house and if you're going to levy charges like that, you best back them up.  Simmons crossed the line, Skipper told him he's benched.  Lucky he didn't get fired.  It wasn't just that he said he felt Goodell lied, he repeated it over and over again emphatically as if declarotory and factual.  Simmons has no idea if he did, absolutely none.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Also Simmons was suspended for 3 weeks for calling Goodell a liar, while Stephen A Smith intimated at best, flat out stated at worst that Janay Rice provoked her own beating.....and was suspended for one week.

ESPN is going to flush themselves down the same toilet that the NFL is.

I think if you compare the direct words, they are totally different.  It's one thing to intimate, let the reader get to the conclusion the person wants, which is what Smith did.  Quite different than what Simmons did.  Simmons won't be at ESPN long per my guys at ESPN, he wants out to go do his own thing, so none of this is surprising. 

[mu03eng]

I think if you compare the direct words, they are totally different.  It's one thing to intimate, let the reader get to the conclusion the person wants, which is what Smith did.  Quite different than what Simmons did.  Simmons won't be at ESPN long per my guys at ESPN, he wants out to go do his own thing, so none of this is surprising. 

I don't care if it's semantically different, ethically what Stephen A said is far worse that what Simmons said.  Yes he called out his bosses, which could merit a suspension, I wouldn't deny that....but that's not what ESPN claims they are suspending him for.

Simmons is an opinionator, that is what he is paid for, and he expressed his opinion.  ESPN reporting indicates Goodell is a liar and Simmons made his own conclusion.

The funny thing is ESPN is Obi Wan Kenobing Simmons here.  If Simmons wants out he'll have an even bigger platform than he did before and the guy brings a ton of eyeballs to ESPN.  However, I suspect ESPN might be ok with him going because they are looking to purge themselves of personalities bigger than the network itself.

Good thing I quit ESPN (except for Simmons) 4 years ago 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't care if it's semantically different, ethically what Stephen A said is far worse that what Simmons said.  Yes he called out his bosses, which could merit a suspension, I wouldn't deny that....but that's not what ESPN claims they are suspending him for.

Simmons is an opinionator, that is what he is paid for, and he expressed his opinion.  ESPN reporting indicates Goodell is a liar and Simmons made his own conclusion.

The funny thing is ESPN is Obi Wan Kenobing Simmons here.  If Simmons wants out he'll have an even bigger platform than he did before and the guy brings a ton of eyeballs to ESPN.  However, I suspect ESPN might be ok with him going because they are looking to purge themselves of personalities bigger than the network itself.

Good thing I quit ESPN (except for Simmons) 4 years ago  

ESPN provides the masthead for Simmons.  They are the publisher, they are the vehicle.  That means he has play by ESPN's rules, no different than any other journalist.  If he doesn't like it, he can go get his own masthead.   I don't think Simmons would be bigger, the reality is that ESPN made Simmons, not the other way around.  Simmons gets a tremendous amount of exposure simply by people going to ESPN with no intent of reading or watching Simmons.

What he did was blatantly wrong.  The irony in all of this is that Simmons was basing a lot of his beliefs in the OTL story, which took another hit this week.  They already had to walk back the video cell phone claim.  Now they had to admit the text messages that Ray Rice released were "paraphrased" and they forgot to mention that they were in response to what the Ravens owner stated in texts to him.....in fact, forgot to even bother to post those texts.  Now that those are out, OTL taking more than their fair share of hits.  The number of edits they've had to do is pretty amazing. 

I'm sure ESPN brass is not thrilled on two fronts...their own investigative journalists mistakes and then having to deal with Simmons overgrown ego (he has totally got out of control the last few years) running around claiming something as factual when he has no idea if it is.  It's fine to be opinionated in his role, but there is a line and the publisher gets to draw that line.  You also have to form it in a statement of an opinion.  "I, Bill Simmons, believe the commissioner is not truthful or even lying because of X, Y, Z".  That's not what Simmons did, and to make matters worse he dared his bosses to punish him for his hubris.  Well, he was called on it.  

[4everwarriors]

That's ok. ESPN will probably hire Megyn Kelly in his place, aina?

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's ok. ESPN will probably hire Megyn Kelly in his place, aina?

That would be fine by me....good looking, smart....maybe they can put her on following Olbermann

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think this excerpt from Outside the Beltway sums it up pretty well...and he's a Simmons fan as am I (though I think his ego is out of control).


......

But tone—and word choice—actually matters. “Liar” is inflammatory. Indeed, it has been branded a “fighting word” by the US Supreme Court and thus entitled to limited First Amendment protection. As Legum notes in the post, Simmons has been hammering Goodell on this issue “for weeks” without consequence. It’s the use of the word “liar,” then, that triggered the suspension.

Further, the facts here do not support that label. I agree with Simmons that Goodell knew when he issued the original two-game suspension that Rice had punched his then-fiancee in the face. I believe that because I “knew” that it had happened from the various press accounts. The public “knew” it as well, which is why so many were outraged by a sentence they perceived as too light. But it’s undeniable that seeing the video changed public perception of the incident. If in fact Goodell had not seen the unedited video—and I can’t prove that he had—then it’s conceivable that the visual evidence constituted “new information” in his mind, despite not offering any new facts. (For example, I’ve studiously avoided watching any of the various terrorist beheading videos over the years. I don’t think watching them will provide any information that I don’t already have and am not interested in snuff films. But it’s quite possible that actually seeing the videos would alter my analysis of the crimes, simply because of the emotional reaction.)

[Lennys Tap]

I used to really like Bill Simmons. Bright guy, talented writer, unabashed sports fan who cleverly incorporated his friends and family in his pieces. Then he was "discovered" and his hat size exploded like Barry Bonds' after an off season at Biogenesis.

I am not a fan of the Goodell. He has seemed to me disingenuous on many issues, including this one. He MAY even be an outright liar. If someone says that they think he's a liar, suspect he's a liar or feel he's a liar I'm OK with that. But based on what is public knowledge at least, saying as fact that they KNOW he's a liar is, pure and simple, a lie.

Simmons just got himself a ton of free publicity. That wasn't an accident.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Im actually a really big Simmons fan. I love his grantland articles and he has that sarcastic humor I really enjoy.

[reinko]

I am stunned a certain poster is taking the side of management here. 

Good lord.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I am stunned a certain poster is taking the side of management here. 

Good lord.

Go figure...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Im actually a really big Simmons fan. I love his grantland articles and he has that sarcastic humor I really enjoy.

Plus he is an "objective NBA analyst" and pretends to be neutral .....LIAR!!   


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/jKgr0teW8F4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/jKgr0teW8F4</a>

[CTWarrior]

I used to really like Bill Simmons. Bright guy, talented writer, unabashed sports fan who cleverly incorporated his friends and family in his pieces. Then he was "discovered" and his hat size exploded like Barry Bonds' after an off season at Biogenesis.

I am not a fan of the Goodell. He has seemed to me disingenuous on many issues, including this one. He MAY even be an outright liar. If someone says that they think he's a liar, suspect he's a liar or feel he's a liar I'm OK with that. But based on what is public knowledge at least, saying as fact that they KNOW he's a liar is, pure and simple, a lie.

Simmons just got himself a ton of free publicity. That wasn't an accident.

Agree with everything.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am stunned a certain poster is taking the side of management here. 

Good lord.

Clear as day why he was suspended, he knew he was going to be suspended and begged for it to happen.  Why on earth should Simmons be supported for what he said?  I'd love to hear the argument on this one.

I'm all for opinions, etc, but there is a line that is crossed.  You cannot call someone a liar as a statement of fact without knowing if it is true.  Number one, it is common decency.  Number two, it is potentially libelous.  Number three, it isn't his platform that he is using to say it....if he wishes to separate himself as an employee and make that statement, then Simmons on principle alone should quit and scream from the top of his twitter mountain all he wants.

Please argue his side, I would love to hear this...Chitown can help you.   

[Lennys Tap]

Plus he is an "objective NBA analyst" and pretends to be neutral .....LIAR!!   


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/jKgr0teW8F4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/jKgr0teW8F4</a>

Simmons has always been very open about being a Celtic, Red Sox, Patriot and Bruin fan. Nothing to see here.

[reinko]

Clear as day why he was suspended, he knew he was going to be suspended and begged for it to happen.  Why on earth should Simmons be supported for what he said?  I'd love to hear the argument on this one.

I'm all for opinions, etc, but there is a line that is crossed.  You cannot call someone a liar as a statement of fact without knowing if it is true.  Number one, it is common decency.  Number two, it is potentially libelous.  Number three, it isn't his platform that he is using to say it....if he wishes to separate himself as an employee and make that statement, then Simmons on principle alone should quit and scream from the top of his twitter mountain all he wants.

Please argue his side, I would love to hear this...Chitown can help you.   

How did you know I was talking about you?  Did you intimate that?  I was just letting the reader draw their own conclusion.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

How did you know I was talking about you?  Did you intimate that?  I was just letting the reader draw their own conclusion.   

You are ducking the question, please make the case for Simmons

[ChicosBailBonds]

My favorite was Jeremiah Rivers taking Bill Simmons to task when he crapped on MU alum, Doc Rivers....because Bill didn't have all his facts straight.



    @BillSimmons @espn My father has never quit anything in his life. He now has an NBA Championship, and helped in rejuvenating the Celtics.

    — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn That’s why he is 3rd winningest coach in Celtics history. Those are just credentials, but you already know this. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn Your the same guy who was trying to run my dad out of town when it seemed like the Celtics were down and out.

    — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn Then you praised him like GOD himself when he helped turn things around. Where is your loyalty. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn You know nothing about winning, about sacrifice, and being a champion. You sit behind a desk and pick on people.

    — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn .You are a Internet bully. There is a reason nobody will side with you. They like my dad better than you. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn If you don’t have all the facts, which you clearly DON’T, I suggest you sit down and shut up. Good day sir.

    — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

You are ducking the question, please make the case for Simmons

My argument is all about the context of it. Ray Rice got suspended for the equivalent of two weeks. Stephan A. got suspended for 1 week. Simmons called out Goodell, not even his own boss and got suspended for as much as Stephan A. and Ray Rice combined. It doesnt make sense. ESPN is too worried about saving their own ass when it comes to publicity and protecting the NFL and Goodells ass they are almost no better than he is. Thats whats frustrating. I will be welcoming Simmons with open arms if and when he decides to join Fox Sports 1.

[reinko]

You are ducking the question, please make the case for Simmons

You drew the conclusion that I was talking about you.  I never mentioned you by name, and now you are bent out of shape by it, by your own words that folks can intimate things and draw their own conclusions.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

You drew the conclusion that I was talking about you.  I never mentioned you by name, and now you are bent out of shape by it, by your own words that folks can intimate things and draw their own conclusions.

You handle this so much better than I do.

[Lennys Tap]

My favorite was Jeremiah Rivers taking Bill Simmons to task when he crapped on MU alum, Doc Rivers....because Bill didn't have all his facts straight.



    @BillSimmons @espn My father has never quit anything in his life. He now has an NBA Championship, and helped in rejuvenating the Celtics.

    — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn That’s why he is 3rd winningest coach in Celtics history. Those are just credentials, but you already know this. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn Your the same guy who was trying to run my dad out of town when it seemed like the Celtics were down and out.

    — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn Then you praised him like GOD himself when he helped turn things around. Where is your loyalty. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn You know nothing about winning, about sacrifice, and being a champion. You sit behind a desk and pick on people.

    — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn .You are a Internet bully. There is a reason nobody will side with you. They like my dad better than you. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

    @BillSimmons @espn If you don’t have all the facts, which you clearly DON’T, I suggest you sit down and shut up. Good day sir.

    — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013

Little hard to figure out exactly what's going on here since you only published one side of the conversation.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My argument is all about the context of it. Ray Rice got suspended for the equivalent of two weeks. Stephan A. got suspended for 1 week. Simmons called out Goodell, not even his own boss and got suspended for as much as Stephan A. and Ray Rice combined. It doesnt make sense. ESPN is too worried about saving their own ass when it comes to publicity and protecting the NFL and Goodells ass they are almost no better than he is. Thats whats frustrating. I will be welcoming Simmons with open arms if and when he decides to join Fox Sports 1.

The irony that you say "the context of it" and then you don't use context at all. In your own paragraph you are vastly understating what happened.  He called someone a definitive LIAR on multiple occasions.  That is the difference.  A MAJOR difference.  You're trying to make the comparison of what Simmons did and what Smith did, they're totally different, not even in the same ballpark.  So why are you making that comparison?

I have to laugh about your comments about ESPN, do you think the Outside the Lines story "protected" the NFL?  You can't have it both ways.  Sure, they have a major investment in the NFL, there is an inherent conflict of interest as a result, but that's the deal when you have an organization as both a journalistic enterprise and the rights holder.  I could give you countless examples about MSNBC, NY Times, Fox, etc.  That's the way it goes, but to implying they are protecting the NFL it seems to me you are ignoring greatly all the shots they are taking at the NFL.  If Simmons hadn't called Goodell a liar, he wouldn't have been suspended and his comments against the NFL and Goodell would have remained, none of which "protect the NFL".

[mu03eng]

I think this excerpt from Outside the Beltway sums it up pretty well...and he's a Simmons fan as am I (though I think his ego is out of control).


......

But tone—and word choice—actually matters. “Liar” is inflammatory. Indeed, it has been branded a “fighting word” by the US Supreme Court and thus entitled to limited First Amendment protection. As Legum notes in the post, Simmons has been hammering Goodell on this issue “for weeks” without consequence. It’s the use of the word “liar,” then, that triggered the suspension.

Further, the facts here do not support that label. I agree with Simmons that Goodell knew when he issued the original two-game suspension that Rice had punched his then-fiancee in the face. I believe that because I “knew” that it had happened from the various press accounts. The public “knew” it as well, which is why so many were outraged by a sentence they perceived as too light. But it’s undeniable that seeing the video changed public perception of the incident. If in fact Goodell had not seen the unedited video—and I can’t prove that he had—then it’s conceivable that the visual evidence constituted “new information” in his mind, despite not offering any new facts. (For example, I’ve studiously avoided watching any of the various terrorist beheading videos over the years. I don’t think watching them will provide any information that I don’t already have and am not interested in snuff films. But it’s quite possible that actually seeing the videos would alter my analysis of the crimes, simply because of the emotional reaction.)

It strikes me as funny the linguistic gymnastics that have to be done to show Simmons was wrong and yet he is suspended 3 weeks.  Essentially, ESPN has determined that an opinion maker calling someone a liar(not provable but "likely" by even your quoted writer) and challenging the companies authority merits a longer suspension than a man you punched his wife unconscious in an elevator as well as fellow opinion maker who on-air intimated that women can provoke their own beatings.  We have no issue with that?

Additionally, the very commissioner who we are bristling at being called a liar, suspended a coach for a year with no proof because "ignorance is not a defense".....is using the ignorance defense as to why he didn't do more in the Ray Rice scenario.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You drew the conclusion that I was talking about you.  I never mentioned you by name, and now you are bent out of shape by it, by your own words that folks can intimate things and draw their own conclusions.

Where have I said you were talking about me?  I have no idea who you are talking about.  If it's me, that's cool....certainly not bent out of shape by it.  If it's someone else, that's fine.   Still the same original question, regardless of whom you are speaking about, please explain how management (IN THIS CASE) is wrong for what they did?

Thanks