MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 12, 2022, 09:44:17 PM
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https://twitter.com/SwaggyDu1/status/1481320678972350469
Duane Wilson
@SwaggyDu1
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10h
Buzz promised me and my family so much & left after my freshman year. That’s really crazy. In my opinion he been knew since my senior year of high school he was leaving. Could’ve been kept it real and told us.
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https://twitter.com/SwaggyDu1/status/1481320678972350469
Duane Wilson
@SwaggyDu1
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10h
Buzz promised me and my family so much & left after my freshman year. That’s really crazy. In my opinion he been knew since my senior year of high school he was leaving. Could’ve been kept it real and told us.
Wow. Nice find. Not really surprised to hear this. Buzz was mentally checked out that whole last season he was here...he was getting pushed out by Admin. Pilarz and Larry Williams messed with his happy. Buzz was quirky AF but he could coach. I loved Buzz, but Shaka should be able to replicate his success without the crazy/OCD/idiosyncratic behavior.
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So this defines literally any coach ever? Minus maaaaaybe mark few?
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It’s an interesting comment from Duane, but ultimately it sounds like sour grapes. I checked out his page and it looks like he was ranting a bit about his college experience.
There’s always been sort of this made up narrative that Duane was repeatedly screwed or wronged throughout his college career and that’s why he didn’t “make it”. The brutal honest truth is that he was not good enough to play in the NBA. Furthermore, the TBT team didn’t even want him, which is another thing he complained about.
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Wow. Nice find. Not really surprised to hear this. Buzz was mentally checked out that whole last season he was here...he was getting pushed out by Admin. Pilarz and Larry Williams messed with his happy. Buzz was quirky AF but he could coach. I loved Buzz, but Shaka should be able to replicate his success without the crazy/OCD/idiosyncratic behavior.
Buzz pushed both of those guys out then bailed on MU. Buzz sucks.
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Buzz pushed both of those guys out then bailed on MU. Buzz sucks.
Yeaaaaaa, buzz bailed.... to join Virginia tech. A huge step up. I totally buy that.
Not only was Buzz run out of town, but so was Blue (seriously does anyone really buy the "I'm going pro even though I have no shot" that he tried to run us through?) And mayo.
It's no surprise the first thing Marquette did after running out Buzz, was to hire the biggest Choir boy known to man. Who never in his tender touched a juco, or ever had any personality in his coaching, interviews, or public addresses.
The board spoke, and it shouted to tear down anything to do with buzz.
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Yeaaaaaa, buzz bailed.... to join Virginia tech. A huge step up. I totally buy that.
Not only was Buzz run out of town, but so was Blue (seriously does anyone really buy the "I'm going pro even though I have no shot" that he tried to run us through?) And mayo.
It's no surprise the first thing Marquette did after running out Buzz, was to hire the biggest Choir boy known to man. Who never in his tender touched a juco, or ever had any personality in his coaching, interviews, or public addresses.
The board spoke, and it shouted to tear down anything to do with buzz.
Buzz bailed because he didn’t believe in the new Big East. He was a complete fake. Higgins in ridiculous looking suits.
Blue and Mayo should have been gone long before they hit the road.
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Buzz wasn’t run out of town. He may have been made uncomfortable, but he would still be here if he wanted.
But also I don’t blame him for the Duane situation. That’s just college basketball. At least the future Duanes have more options.
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This is sour grapes at some point he's gotta realize "if I'd had it it would've shown" and it did for one game his RS Freshman year.
Buzz wasn't run out of town. admin not wanting to play "will he won't he leave" after a bad year isn't running him out of town and Scott & Larry were gone already. The Vander point is also pretty absurd, he's given a million interviews about it, and scoop was more connected then with reports of buzz screaming at Vander not to go. Mayo on the other hand should never have been here
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Any y'all wanna address da elephant in da room, hey?
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Buzz had a couple of good years at Marquette followed by 5 years of not finishing higher than 5th in the ACC, and making the S16 once. After which, he promptly left town again and headed to TAMU, and is having a great year so far.
I'll also leave this here without further comment.
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/1481088484161032193
Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
Could there be a more racist staff coaching between Buzz and KKKermit Davis???
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Buzz had a couple of good years at Marquette followed by 5 years of not finishing higher than 5th in the ACC, and making the S16 once. After which, he promptly left town again and headed to TAMU, and is having a great year so far.
I'll also leave this here without further comment.
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/1481088484161032193
Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
Could there be a more racist staff coaching between Buzz and KKKermit Davis???
It’s worth noting that he was coaching at historically bad job VA Tech.
His time there should be considered a success.
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Didn't stop Seth Greenberg from havin' grate lookin' daughters, doe, hey?
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It’s worth noting that he was coaching at historically bad job VA Tech.
His time there should be considered a success.
He was the 2nd most successful coach in Marquette history, the most successful coach in Virginia Tech history and will likely be a success at Texas A+M - because he’s really good at coaching basketball.
Swaggy Duane is a sour grapes guy who never lived up to his potential.
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I wouldn't say Buzz is having a great season yet. He had another of his trademarked Charmin soft non cons (best win was against #52 Notre Dame on a neutral court). He does have a niceish home win over #44 Arkansas in conference. TAMU also lucked into a soft conference schedule. The teams they play twice are #209 Georgia, #171 Missouri, #101 Ole Miss, #44 (in KP but 93 in NET) Arkansas, and #7 LSU. They only play Kentucky, Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, Florida and Mississippi St once and they are the 5 highest rated teams besides LSU. They'll need to win some games against LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Bama, Kentucky or they may not have any Q1 wins for their resume by selection Sunday. They are currently 0-1 in Q1 games and 1-1 in Q2 games. They only have 6 chances left and they are all doozies
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Guys, Swaggy Du destroyed his legs. It's not like he was an overrated bust, he got hurt.
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He was the 2nd most successful coach in Marquette history, the most successful coach in Virginia Tech history and will likely be a success at Texas A+M - because he’s really good at coaching basketball.
Swaggy Duane is a sour grapes guy who never lived up to his potential.
This probably says as much about MU as it does about Buzz.
Also, Buzz never went to a final four, and has a very similar winning percentage to Tom Crean... and was left with a fully stocked cabinet of top flight players.
Don't get me wrong, Buzz is a good coach, but I'd hesitate to put him on a pedestal, nor would I put him ahead of Crean. And for the record, I don't like Tom.
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This probably says as much about MU as it does about Buzz.
It's like being the second best quarterback in Bears history.
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What did I miss? What happened that caused Du to tweet the comment yesterday, this many years after leaving MU?
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Any y'all wanna address da elephant in da room, hey?
Wut? Dat Crean sux?
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It's like being the second best quarterback in Bears history.
Yeah, but one of the best QBs for Da Bears is also one of the top QBs for the Packers. ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Buzz sucks
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TAMU beat me to the Buzz isn't having as great as year as you might think post by an hour. Ask me about their season when they start playing much more of the top 1/3 of the SEC than they have so far. Will they make the tourney with not a great seed? Probably yes. Just thought of this. There'd be some chance MU would play A & M in something like an 8-9 or 7-10 game, or even in a play-in game in Dayton.
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So DW was caught off guard by the reality of big time college athletics? That’s the story?
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I wouldn't even go as far to say that they will make the tourney. I could see them with 20+ wins but no tourney berth because they have 0 Q1 wins
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TAMU beat me to the Buzz isn't having as great as year as you might think post by an hour. Ask me about their season when they start playing much more of the top 1/3 of the SEC than they have so far. Will they make the tourney with not a great seed? Probably yes. Just thought of this. There'd be some chance MU would play A & M in something like an 8-9 or 7-10 game, or even in a play-in game in Dayton.
I would gladly go to that game and chant against buzz as much as possible
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I wouldn't even go as far to say that they will make the tourney. I could see them with 20+ wins but no tourney berth because they have 0 Q1 wins
Their resume reminds me a bit of the Ellenson team. Quantity without substance.
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I'll also leave this here without further comment.
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/1481088484161032193
Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
Could there be a more racist staff coaching between Buzz and KKKermit Davis???
I was told when Buzz arrived that he actually hated white people. Buzz was the first MU coach to put two African Americans on the staff (as real ACs).
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I imagine that it's tough for Duane to see his undergrad alma matter essentially disavow him (TBT team don't want him and loads of fans turned on him for "betraying" MU when he grad transferred) and now the coach who promised him everything and then bailed is coaching his Grad alma matter. I'm sure it just creates a weird mix of emotions when you want to be a fan and he wanted to vent some of it.
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He was the 2nd most successful coach in Marquette history, the most successful coach in Virginia Tech history and will likely be a success at Texas A+M - because he’s really good at coaching basketball.
Buzz is the most successful coach in Virginia Tech history???
Howie Shannon took them further in the NCAA Tournament and had a higher winning percentage to boot.
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Seem to recall posts about Duane having a very good 5th year at Texas A&M.
Seems like Buzz and Duane just couldn't reconnect at Texas A&M.
In any case - "It's all history!".
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Buzz is the most successful coach in Virginia Tech history???
Howie Shannon took them further in the NCAA Tournament and had a higher winning percentage to boot.
Don’t sleep on ole gummy
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/george-s-gummy-proctor-1.html
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He wuzant reely an English mayjuor, wuz he, hey?
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Seem to recall posts about Duane having a very good 5th year at Texas A&M.
He was having a good year. He got hurt. But he didn't play for Buzz at A&M.
Honestly I think his dad poisoning the well has a lot to do with why Marquette has "turned their back." But maybe under Shaka things can improve.
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Buzz pushed both of those guys out then bailed on MU. Buzz sucks.
Buzz was a great coach at Marquette. Crean’s F4 aside, Buzz was MU’s second-best coach, only to Al. Odd dude. Questionable-character recruits at times. Sure. AD Larry Williams?…was a disaster.
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He wuzant reely an English mayjuor, wuz he, hey?
There it is. Used the phonics on it for cover too, nice.
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No cover needed. Simply embarrassing for a college grad. Or, do we accept and excuse this too, hey?
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No cover needed. Simply embarrassing for a college grad. Or, do we accept and excuse this too, hey?
I mean it is twitter not exactly a term paper.
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I wont go by records, to me 2nd most important & best coach at MU is KO. Took over a BB program in shambles and brought it back to national relevance, brought in best big, only AL was able to recruit better bigs, coached at next level (not successfully). I think best combo of coaching and recruiting after AL. Plus he was very entertaining.
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No cover needed. Simply embarrassing for a college grad. Or, do we accept and excuse this too, hey?
A dude who posts in largely nonsensical English here is calling out how someone Tweets? ::) ::) ::)
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Buzz was a great coach at Marquette. Crean’s F4 aside, Buzz was MU’s second-best coach, only to Al. Odd dude. Questionable-character recruits at times. Sure. AD Larry Williams?…was a disaster.
Okay. Thats how you feel but isn't backed up by the data.
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C'mon man, even St. Norbie grads gotta be more proficient, aina?
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No cover needed. Simply embarrassing for a college grad. Or, do we accept and excuse this too, hey?
Hi, Pot. Meet Kettle.
If we accept and/or excuse your regular crucifixion of the English language, shouldn't we accept his English?
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No cover needed. Simply embarrassing for a college grad. Or, do we accept and excuse this too, hey?
Internet version of “Get off my lawn.”
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Again i 100% believe in business professional speech and writing in the right context. But it is twitter...
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Buzz had a couple of good years at Marquette followed by 5 years of not finishing higher than 5th in the ACC, and making the S16 once. After which, he promptly left town again and headed to TAMU, and is having a great year so far.
TAMU is not having a great year so far.
They've feasted on a joke of a schedule (KenPom SOS = #291 overall, #324 nonconference).
12 of their 13 wins are against Quad 3 or Quad 4 opponents.
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Do what you want. Isn't that the beauty of America? I choose to call him out.
Maybe you can't differentiate one who knows and utilizes the English language properly on a daily basis and one who doesn't know any better. Particularly, after having graduated from college, hey?
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Buzz bailed because he didn’t believe in the new Big East. He was a complete fake. Higgins in ridiculous looking suits.
Blue and Mayo should have been gone long before they hit the road.
This is partially correct. Buzz DID have alot of concerns regarding the new BEAST conference and it's viability.
However, THE reason that buzz ultimately decided to leave was when Larry Williams greatly restricted JUCO recruitment. under Larry's new rule, JUCO's could only play ball for Marquette if they had enough credits to graduate while on the team. players like Jae Crowder were no longer "accaptable" in Larry's eyes.
as you recall Buzz feasted in the JUCO market. (Fulce, Butler, Crowder, DJO, etc.). This new rule greatly impacted the teams Buzz could construct moving forward.
Plus, Larry also put all freshman basketball players in a freshman dorm, not the basketball dorm because thats how is alma mater (Notre Dame) did it. That did not sit well with recruits as well.
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Do what you want. Isn't that the beauty of America? I choose to call him out.
Maybe you can't differentiate one who knows and utilizes the English language properly on a daily basis and one who doesn't know any better. Particularly, after having graduated from college, hey?
Do you know how he speaks or writes in a professional setting? Because my guess is that the only evidence you are using for your judgement is this actual tweet.
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Do what you want. Isn't that the beauty of America? I choose to call him out.
Maybe you can't differentiate one who knows and utilizes the English language properly on a daily basis and one who doesn't know any better. Particularly, after having graduated from college, hey?
Or maybe you can't. Do you think Duane's tweets are the entirety of his capabilities in the vernacular? And if that's your predisposition, do you think it might be wise to reassess your thoughts considering how you portray yourself on this public forum 99% of the time?
Simply, if you are capable of writing a coherent sentence when the need arises, what be the discriminating factor that leads you to believe Duane isn't equally capable?
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Do you know how he speaks or writes in a professional setting? Because my guess is that the only evidence you are using for your judgement is this actual tweet.
4ever is definitely the guy who should be calling out others for the way they use the English language online, aina?
<Clown emoji>
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This is partially correct. Buzz DID have alot of concerns regarding the new BEAST conference and it's viability.
However, THE reason that buzz ultimately decided to leave was when Larry Williams greatly restricted JUCO recruitment. under Larry's new rule, JUCO's could only play ball for Marquette if they had enough credits to graduate while on the team. players like Jae Crowder were no longer "accaptable" in Larry's eyes.
as you recall Buzz feasted in the JUCO market. (Fulce, Butler, Crowder, DJO, etc.). This new rule greatly impacted the teams Buzz could construct moving forward.
Plus, Larry also put all freshman basketball players in a freshman dorm, not the basketball dorm because thats how is alma mater (Notre Dame) did it. That did not sit well with recruits as well.
And Larry Williams left and Bill Scholl didn't change the JUCO rule back - and it's still in affect today as far as I know. Which is fine. I understand and support that rule.
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This is partially correct. Buzz DID have alot of concerns regarding the new BEAST conference and it's viability.
However, THE reason that buzz ultimately decided to leave was when Larry Williams greatly restricted JUCO recruitment. under Larry's new rule, JUCO's could only play ball for Marquette if they had enough credits to graduate while on the team. players like Jae Crowder were no longer "accaptable" in Larry's eyes.
as you recall Buzz feasted in the JUCO market. (Fulce, Butler, Crowder, DJO, etc.). This new rule greatly impacted the teams Buzz could construct moving forward.
Plus, Larry also put all freshman basketball players in a freshman dorm, not the basketball dorm because thats how is alma mater (Notre Dame) did it. That did not sit well with recruits as well.
Larry was already gone so your theory is Buzz got rid of the problem and then said "well now that that's done I'm going to get out of dodge!" One top of that he had just brought in 3 top 100 recruits and a Juco all American rated as a top 10 recruiting class in the country so your theory that it was hindering recruiting also goes out the door.
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Do what you want. Isn't that the beauty of America? I choose to call him out.
Maybe you can't differentiate one who knows and utilizes the English language properly on a daily basis and one who doesn't know any better. Particularly, after having graduated from college, hey?
As soon as you call out your fellow old, white dentist -- who hasn't written a legible post on Scoop in years (if ever) despite holding a Marquette degree -- you have the board's permission to call out somebody else for using poor English in social media posts.
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Larry was already gone so your theory is Buzz got rid of the problem and then said "well now that that's done I'm going to get out of dodge!" One top of that he had just brought in 3 top 100 recruits and a Juco all American rated as a top 10 recruiting class in the country so your theory that it was hindering recruiting also goes out the door.
See Fluffy Blue Monster's comment above. The rule was never changed back. Buzz still had to follow it.
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As soon as you call out your fellow old, white dentist -- who hasn't written a legible post on Scoop in years (if ever) despite holding a Marquette degree -- you have the board's permission to call out somebody else for using poor English in social media posts.
Korrection, dat's too MU degrees, hey?
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Buzz' happy was messed with long before Larry Williams arrived. Larry was a catalyst not the cause.
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“I will be taking my services to the University of Marquette”
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“I will be taking my services to the University of Marquette”
Didn't Markus Howard say this as well? I feel like a lot of recruits say this. Went from pet peeve to funny.
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And Larry Williams left and Bill Scholl didn't change the JUCO rule back - and it's still in affect today as far as I know. Which is fine. I understand and support that rule.
Wait. I was told by Scoop for years there was no such "rule"?
In recent good news, though, MSOC signed a JUCO (although he didn't last), WVB signed a JUCO AA and Kur was a JUCO (although he also graduated from Oklahoma). Times are a changing I hope.
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Korrection, dat's too MU degrees, hey?
This was funny.
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I don't know what motivated Wilson tweeting about this now, but I also don't need to dive into Buzz vs administration to know that that final Buzz year was a waste of everyone's time.
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TAMU is not having a great year so far.
They've feasted on a joke of a schedule (KenPom SOS = #291 overall, #324 nonconference).
12 of their 13 wins are against Quad 3 or Quad 4 opponents.
Still have to win the games you play. But I take your point.
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Wait. I was told by Scoop for years there was no such "rule"?
In recent good news, though, MSOC signed a JUCO (although he didn't last), WVB signed a JUCO AA and Kur was a JUCO (although he also graduated from Oklahoma). Times are a changing I hope.
There's a difference between "JUCOs need to be able to graduate by the time their eligibility expires" and "No JUCOs allowed."
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Wait. I was told by Scoop for years there was no such "rule"?
Perhaps semantics, or my memory, but I thought you had said something to the effect of not allowed to recruit JUCOs. Whereas, the reality is JUCOs were fine...if they could graduate.
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Do what you want. Isn't that the beauty of America? I choose to call him out.
Maybe you can't differentiate one who knows and utilizes the English language properly on a daily basis and one who doesn't know any better. Particularly, after having graduated from college, hey?
We do not speak or write proper English in America, it is all American bastardized English.
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This is partially correct. Buzz DID have alot of concerns regarding the new BEAST conference and it's viability.
However, THE reason that buzz ultimately decided to leave was when Larry Williams greatly restricted JUCO recruitment. under Larry's new rule, JUCO's could only play ball for Marquette if they had enough credits to graduate while on the team. players like Jae Crowder were no longer "accaptable" in Larry's eyes.
as you recall Buzz feasted in the JUCO market. (Fulce, Butler, Crowder, DJO, etc.). This new rule greatly impacted the teams Buzz could construct moving forward.
Plus, Larry also put all freshman basketball players in a freshman dorm, not the basketball dorm because thats how is alma mater (Notre Dame) did it. That did not sit well with recruits as well.
What's wrong with only allowing that JUCOs who come in will actually graduate? I know MU got tired of nearly every player having to take summer school just to get eligible. Summer school is supposed to get guys ahead so they can graduate on time while only taking 12 credits per semester. Guys like Fulce and Butler would have been fine, they were qualifiers out of HS. Crean had JUCO limitations too. He had to lobby hard to get Marcus Jackson in and wasn't allowed to bring in another 2-4 (Kinsella was a 4-2-4 who originally went to Rice so he didn't count at a JUCO) until Jackson graduated.
As for the dorm thing, it was Title IX issues that was at the heart of that decision.
Oh yeah, there were those pesky off-the-court issues with the team that embarrassed MU and Buzz laughed about.
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Wait. I was told by Scoop for years there was no such "rule"?
In recent good news, though, MSOC signed a JUCO (although he didn't last), WVB signed a JUCO AA and Kur was a JUCO (although he also graduated from Oklahoma). Times are a changing I hope.
There was no rule saying we couldn't recruit JUCOs which is what you previously claimed. There was/is a rule about the academic requirements needed for admission that impacted some JUCOs.
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As for the dorm thing, it was Title IX issues that was at the heart of that decision.
Really? Can you further discuss this? MU being over cautious?
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What's wrong with only allowing that JUCOs who come in will actually graduate? I know MU got tired of nearly every player having to take summer school just to get eligible. Summer school is supposed to get guys ahead so they can graduate on time while only taking 12 credits per semester. Guys like Fulce and Butler would have been fine, they were qualifiers out of HS. Crean had JUCO limitations too. He had to lobby hard to get Marcus Jackson in and wasn't allowed to bring in another 2-4 (Kinsella was a 4-2-4 who originally went to Rice so he didn't count at a JUCO) until Jackson graduated.
As for the dorm thing, it was Title IX issues that was at the heart of that decision.
Oh yeah, there were those pesky off-the-court issues with the team that embarrassed MU and Buzz laughed about.
I'm not trying to defend Buzz, just stating the reasons behind his departure.
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We do not speak or write proper English in America, it is all American bastardized English.
Which is a bastardized version of Middle English which is a bastardized version of old English which is bastardized Anglo-Frisian which is bastardized west Germanic, which is bastardized Germanic, which is bastardized indo-european.
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Which is a bastardized version of Middle English which is a bastardized version of old English which is bastardized Anglo-Frisian which is bastardized west Germanic, which is bastardized Germanic, which is bastardized indo-european.
You been to England? What some of those folks speak can barely be considered English either!
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Which is a bastardized version of Middle English which is a bastardized version of old English which is bastardized Anglo-Frisian which is bastardized west Germanic, which is bastardized Germanic, which is bastardized indo-european.
If you want to have fun at a linguistics meeting, have them debate the "Middle English Creole Hypothesis."
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If you want to have fun at a linguistics meeting, have them debate the "Middle English Creole Hypothesis."
That sounds like my kind of fun!!!
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You been to England? What some of those folks speak can barely be considered English either!
Brass tacks! They're all a bit dilly in the loaf
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Another scoop kerfuffle.
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Yeah, but one of the best QBs for Da Bears is also one of the top QBs for the Packers. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Jim McMahon has as many super bowl rings as Farve and Rodgers combined.
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Jim McMahon has as many super bowl rings as Farve and Rodgers combined.
They both were only playing for appearances in the NFC finals, Super Bowls are overrated.
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No cover needed. Simply embarrassing for a college grad. Or, do we accept and excuse this too, hey?
Bro you “graduated college” and claim to be a “doctor” or “dentist” and you type like absolute dog sh!t every day.
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I'm not trying to defend Buzz, just stating the reasons behind his departure.
The reason behind Buzz's departure is he was looking out for Buzz.
Which is perfectly fine with me.
But the martyrization of Buzz by some quarters of Scoop is asinine.
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maybe we should pull up that link to the chicago tribune article... good riddance Buzz. Some transgressions are bigger than basketball.
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Korrection, dat's too MU degrees, hey?
This was funny.
You're right ... it is funny. Although roQQet has two degrees from Marquette, he literally can't string two sentences together. But at least he's old and white, so that's enough to keep Doc Dribble from "calling him out" as being "simply embarrassing for a college grad."
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Okay. Thats how you feel but isn't backed up by the data.
the data?
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the data?
Yes, go check out our various coaches win %s.
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Yes, go check out our various coaches win %s.
Their win percentages are almost identical (.664 Crean to .668 Buzz), but Crean took over a program in far worse shape.
If we're being honest, Crean and Kevin O'Neill are much more responsible for the current state of MU basketball than Buzz.
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Their win percentages are almost identical (.664 Crean to .668 Buzz), but Crean took over a program in far worse shape.
If we're being honest, Crean and Kevin O'Neill are much more responsible for the current state of MU basketball than Buzz.
They are.
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However, THE reason that buzz ultimately decided to leave was when Larry Williams greatly restricted JUCO recruitment. under Larry's new rule, JUCO's could only play ball for Marquette if they had enough credits to graduate while on the team. players like Jae Crowder were no longer "accaptable" in Larry's eyes.
On the other hand, when Bob Huggins backs off a recruit because of academic concerns . . .
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Their win percentages are almost identical (.664 Crean to .668 Buzz), but Crean took over a program in far worse shape.
If we're being honest, Crean and Kevin O'Neill are much more responsible for the current state of MU basketball than Buzz.
The other factor to consider is whether the program was in better shape that it was on the first day of a coach's tenure.
Crean and O'Neil both left with Marquette in better shape than the day they came in. Buzz left the program in worse shape.
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Buzz being a self interested before leaving and kinda being a con man, thats nothing new.
Duane felt like he didnt do enough research and Arizona would have been better for him, I guess that makes some sense. Sits behind TJ McConnel year 1, and probably Gabe York year 2, and plays more year 3-4. Okay i guess. Not sure Arizona was as much of an option for him as he thinks it was but I'll go along with it. I thought Memphis or Mizzou were his next two options.
I mean for him it was mostly injuries. Bounce leaves guys quickly if they get injured. Even freaks like Zion lose bounce real quick. Its not like he was insanely close making the league ever. Dude was at his highest 53 in his class. Even when Duane was recruited, everyone was looking at Diamond stone on his jr/sr year Dominican teams.
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Not to mention having Diamond on his team gave him a lot of wide open looks.
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The other factor to consider is whether the program was in better shape that it was on the first day of a coach's tenure.
Crean and O'Neil both left with Marquette in better shape than the day they came in. Buzz left the program in worse shape.
I think we drastically underrate the state Buzz left MU. His last team wasn’t THAT far from making the tournament. A few OT/close games go the other way, and they might have squeaked in. He also had 3 straight Sweet 16s with one being an Elite Eight. He definitely raised the profile of MU.
Him leaving MU put us in a bind as he had a pretty good recruiting class coming in and we hired an assistant without players to bring. However, I do think MU was a better program for having Buzz in it.
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Buzz is the most successful coach in Virginia Tech history???
Howie Shannon took them further in the NCAA Tournament and had a higher winning percentage to boot.
I'm gonna take the guy who had 4 straight over .500 conference seasons, finishing in the top half of the conference each time, in the modern ACC (which every team over him each year was a top 25 team) after taking over a program that won 6 total conference games the year prior...over the guy who had 2 nice years as an Independent and sputtered to the finish.
Buzz left ignominiously and MU fans have a right to be annoyed with it, but the dude coached his ass off in Blacksburg
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Buzz is the most successful coach in Virginia Tech history???
Howie Shannon took them further in the NCAA Tournament and had a higher winning percentage to boot.
I'm gonna take the guy who had 4 straight over .500 conference seasons, finishing in the top half of the conference each time, in the modern ACC (which every team over him each year was a top 25 team) after taking over a program that won 6 total conference games the year prior...over the guy who had 2 nice years as an Independent and sputtered to the finish.
Buzz left ignominiously and MU fans have a right to be annoyed with it, but the dude coached his ass off in Blacksburg and would have had another top 15-20 team if he stayed
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I think we drastically underrate the state Buzz left MU. His last team wasn’t THAT far from making the tournament. A few OT/close games go the other way, and they might have squeaked in. He also had 3 straight Sweet 16s with one being an Elite Eight. He definitely raised the profile of MU.
Him leaving MU put us in a bind as he had a pretty good recruiting class coming in and we hired an assistant without players to bring. However, I do think MU was a better program for having Buzz in it.
Fair points, though the vibe that last year (even from where I live in New England) was negative to the core. And, I'd refine your italicized statement to read "had a high profile and good results while Buzz was here."
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I think we drastically underrate the state Buzz left MU. His last team wasn’t THAT far from making the tournament. A few OT/close games go the other way, and they might have squeaked in. He also had 3 straight Sweet 16s with one being an Elite Eight. He definitely raised the profile of MU.
Him leaving MU put us in a bind as he had a pretty good recruiting class coming in and we hired an assistant without players to bring. However, I do think MU was a better program for having Buzz in it.
One of Buzz's S16 teams that we applaud (and for good reason) made the NCAAT only because we won a bunch of games at the buzzer or in OT ... so one can always play the what-if game. Sometimes you win those, sometimes you don't; it's hard to win them with the kind of backcourt Buzz put together.
I personally enjoyed just about all of the Buzz era and I agree he definitely lifted the program's profile. But he did inherit the Amigos and Lazar, obviously a far better situation than he left when he flew the coop.
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I'm gonna take the guy who had 4 straight over .500 conference seasons, finishing in the top half of the conference each time, in the modern ACC (which every team over him each year was a top 25 team) after taking over a program that won 6 total conference games the year prior...over the guy who had 2 nice years as an Independent and sputtered to the finish.
Buzz left ignominiously and MU fans have a right to be annoyed with it, but the dude coached his ass off in Blacksburg
I guess. That says more about how bad VPI basketball is than it does how good Buzz is though. Cause I would expect guys who "coach their ass off" in the ACC to do better than Buzz did.
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Wut? Dat Crean sux?
Don't do this to us, Mike. Bob the Babbler already posts too much.
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I guess. That says more about how bad VPI basketball is than it does how good Buzz is though. Cause I would expect guys who "coach their ass off" in the ACC to do better than Buzz did.
Yeah Mike Young seems to be doing just fine too. Buzz has won 2 tournament games since the 2013 E8. He had a great run at MU, but it feels like he gets graded on a curve because he's taken two lateral moves since, which is something you don't see great coaches do.
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Really? Can you further discuss this? MU being over cautious?
Title IX in terms of equity in treatment between male and female student-athletes, not anything related to the sexual assault issue a few years prior. The complaints spanned many years (I remember freshmen female hoops players in doubles in McCormick but the male freshmen in having their own rooms Humphrey).
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Brass tacks! They're all a bit dilly in the loaf
Crack on, Galway.
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Bro you “graduated college” and claim to be a “doctor” or “dentist” and you type like absolute dog sh!t every day.
I laughed out loud at this.
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I guess. That says more about how bad VPI basketball is than it does how good Buzz is though. Cause I would expect guys who "coach their ass off" in the ACC to do better than Buzz did.
Oh no doubt the bar was low. But again, a program that won 10 games in conference twice in the decade they were in the ACC before Buzz. And was at an extremely low point even for them. He inherited absolute garbage at a really hard place to win. I'm not saying its a HOF performance, but I think its understated how significant of a move up that was. Its still a conference with peak Duke, UNC, and UVA during his time there. Plus Hamilton had FSU firing on all cylinders. To expect Buzz to just randomly conjure a horrible program into being top 3-4 with those programs in 2-3 years is unrealistic and not a fair comp. They were a top 10 team for a good chunk of that final season.
Yeah Mike Young seems to be doing just fine too. Buzz has won 2 tournament games since the 2013 E8. He had a great run at MU, but it feels like he gets graded on a curve because he's taken two lateral moves since, which is something you don't see great coaches do.
"Just fine"?! 16-16 (7-9) in year one. 15-7 (9-7) in last years weird year where Duke and UNC were down and most of the ACC was bad. This year he is 8-7 and 0-4 in conference. Thats not just fine to me.
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I think we drastically underrate the state Buzz left MU. His last team wasn’t THAT far from making the tournament. A few OT/close games go the other way, and they might have squeaked in. .
Hmmm.
That team finished 93rd in the NCAA's RPI (this is pre-NET). That's VERY far from making the tournament. One or two more wins wouldn't have made a difference.
As for close games going the other way, that team finished 5-6 in games decided by less than five points or overtime, so it seems the close ones went pretty evenly.
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Oh no doubt the bar was low. But again, a program that won 10 games in conference twice in the decade they were in the ACC before Buzz. And was at an extremely low point even for them. He inherited absolute garbage at a really hard place to win. I'm not saying its a HOF performance, but I think its understated how significant of a move up that was. Its still a conference with peak Duke, UNC, and UVA during his time there. Plus Hamilton had FSU firing on all cylinders. To expect Buzz to just randomly conjure a horrible program into being top 3-4 with those programs in 2-3 years is unrealistic and not a fair comp. They were a top 10 team for a good chunk of that final season.
"Just fine"?! 16-16 (7-9) in year one. 15-7 (9-7) in last years weird year where Duke and UNC were down and most of the ACC was bad. This year he is 8-7 and 0-4 in conference. Thats not just fine to me.
I'd say 16-16 in year one and then an NCAA appearance in year 2 is "fine". It's better than what Buzz has done at A&M.
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I'd say 16-16 in year one and then an NCAA appearance in year 2 is "fine". It's better than what Buzz has done at A&M.
How has this years TAMU team still basically played no one this year. Its wild, they are 3 games into conference play and their best win is ND on a neutral, despite being 14-2.
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Which is a bastardized version of Middle English which is a bastardized version of old English which is bastardized Anglo-Frisian which is bastardized west Germanic, which is bastardized Germanic, which is bastardized indo-european.
I don't speak proper Spanish either, bastardized Spanish.
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Buzz being a self interested before leaving and kinda being a con man, thats nothing new.
Duane felt like he didnt do enough research and Arizona would have been better for him, I guess that makes some sense. Sits behind TJ McConnel year 1, and probably Gabe York year 2, and plays more year 3-4. Okay i guess. Not sure Arizona was as much of an option for him as he thinks it was but I'll go along with it. I thought Memphis or Mizzou were his next two options.
I mean for him it was mostly injuries. Bounce leaves guys quickly if they get injured. Even freaks like Zion lose bounce real quick. Its not like he was insanely close making the league ever. Dude was at his highest 53 in his class. Even when Duane was recruited, everyone was looking at Diamond stone on his jr/sr year Dominican teams.
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Saw Duane in high school, he was explosive, good shooter as well. Thought he was better then Bronson Koenig, but he never looked the same after his injuries. Koenig turned out to be a better player.
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Saw Duane in high school, he was explosive, good shooter as well. Thought he was better then Bronson Koenig, but he never looked the same after his injuries. Koenig turned out to be a better player.
That's fair. But honestly based on everything i heard was that Koenig was an "pretty boy".
I am happy that Luke Fischer still playing professional ball. I kinda figured at the time he would be the the best of the that 2013 year.
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Their win percentages are almost identical (.664 Crean to .668 Buzz), but Crean took over a program in far worse shape.
If we're being honest, Crean and Kevin O'Neill are much more responsible for the current state of MU basketball than Buzz.
not sure I follow. How is Crean, or KO, responsible for MU’s current basketball situation? Buzz was good until his final season. Not sure he has any influence on things 8 yrs later. Wojo was for the most part meh. Now we’re rebuilding from 7 seasons of rebuilding. Hence, where do Crean and KO fit into things currently?
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not sure I follow. How is Crean, or KO, responsible for MU’s current basketball situation? Buzz was good until his final season. Not sure he has any influence on things 8 yrs later. Wojo was for the most part meh. Now we’re rebuilding from 7 seasons of rebuilding. Hence, where do Crean and KO fit into things currently?
Crean and KO brought Marquette into the modern era of college basketball. KO inherited a terrible program and got them back to the tournament along with getting them into the Great Midwest.
Crean understood the importance of upgrading facilities and helped them seamlessly transition into the Big East.
Buzz took over a program in a power conference. Buzz was wildly successful and built a program in his image but bolted in fear of a Marquette moving into a lesser Big East.
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not sure I follow. How is Crean, or KO, responsible for MU’s current basketball situation? Buzz was good until his final season. Not sure he has any influence on things 8 yrs later. Wojo was for the most part meh. Now we’re rebuilding from 7 seasons of rebuilding. Hence, where do Crean and KO fit into things currently?
I think he means if KO didn’t bring us out of the dumpster fire we may have been rooting for an inferior team in an inferior conference. Same for Crean and his success getting the AL built and helping get us into the Big East. At least I think that is what was meant and it’s hard to argue.
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I'm gonna take the guy who had 4 straight over .500 conference seasons, finishing in the top half of the conference each time, in the modern ACC (which every team over him each year was a top 25 team) after taking over a program that won 6 total conference games the year prior...over the guy who had 2 nice years as an Independent and sputtered to the finish.
Buzz left ignominiously and MU fans have a right to be annoyed with it, but the dude coached his ass off in Blacksburg
In the modern ACC, he had two things going for him:
1. The ACC doesn't play a balanced schedule. In Buzz's best year he went 12-6, and was very lucky with the teams he played twice. Of the top 8 finishers, he only faced one of them (Virginia) twice. Of the bottom 5 teams, he faced three of them twice (Georgia Tech, Miami, & Notre Dame). It's a lot easier to put up the kind of win totals he did when you only had to play Duke, UNC and FSU once each.
2. The Modern ACC has the equivalent of 3 DePauls. There's a lot of room at the bottom where you can pile up wins, and in his final (and best) season, he tallied 9 of his 12 wins against the bottom six teams.
So good for him--he beat the teams he should have, avoided the upset, and even pulled an upset against Duke. But I wouldn't consider that "coaching his ass off". Never finished better than 5th place in ACC, and only once better than 7th.
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not sure I follow. How is Crean, or KO, responsible for MU’s current basketball situation? Buzz was good until his final season. Not sure he has any influence on things 8 yrs later. Wojo was for the most part meh. Now we’re rebuilding from 7 seasons of rebuilding. Hence, where do Crean and KO fit into things currently?
After Dukiet, there was consideration about dropping out of D1. KO made us relevant again and led us competitively out of independent status.
Deane thought fan aspirations of being a nationally competitive program were aiming too high, but Crean was the perfect salesman for the program, brought in Wade, got the Final Four, got the Al built, and played a big role in getting us into the Big East. He built the foundation for where we are today.
Deane, Buzz, and Wojo were all caretakers with varied levels of success. KO & Crean were the architects of where we are today.
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not sure I follow. How is Crean, or KO, responsible for MU’s current basketball situation? Buzz was good until his final season. Not sure he has any influence on things 8 yrs later. Wojo was for the most part meh. Now we’re rebuilding from 7 seasons of rebuilding. Hence, where do Crean and KO fit into things currently?
Coaches should build the program upon the success from their predecessor. Buzz wouldn't have had the starting point that he did if not for Crean. And Crean wouldn't have had the starting point he did if not for KO (though Deane tried to f*ck it up).
It looked like Buzz was going to build on Crean's success. The first three years of course had fun moments but weren't any better than the Crean years. Then he managed two consecutive 3 seeds in years 4 and 5 and it looked like maybe he could get the program to the next step in its evolution. Then Blue declared, the house of cards fell and we went from a 3 seed to missing the NIT. A steep drop. To add insult to injury, he left after that year, blowing up a top recruiting class, and left a mess for the next coach to figure out.
So what I think Pakuni was saying, was that KO elevated the program. TC elevated the program. Buzz at best maintained it and I would argue left it in worse shape than he got it. Doesn't mean his accomplishments at MU should be ignored or even that he's a bad coach. Just means he couldn't get us to the next level as program. And to be fair, the better a program gets, the harder it is to move up.
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I laughed out loud at this.
You laughed out loud at that?
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not sure I follow. How is Crean, or KO, responsible for MU’s current basketball situation? Buzz was good until his final season. Not sure he has any influence on things 8 yrs later. Wojo was for the most part meh. Now we’re rebuilding from 7 seasons of rebuilding. Hence, where do Crean and KO fit into things currently?
Because Marquette was pretty much at the level of Loyola and Detroit-Mercy when O'Neill arrived and may very well have settled in there permanently had another bad coaching decision been made. He brought the program back from the near dead.
After some backsliding under Mike Deane, Crean came in and raised the program to another level, recruiting some of the best players in school history and getting the team back to a Final Four, and helping to pave the way for entry to the Big East.
Buzz had a great deal of success at MU, but mostly just maintained the status quo. Didn't raise the program to the next (i.e. Villanova or Gonzaga) level, but didn't slide backwards either. Those were good years, but they weren't program-defining years.
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After Dukiet, there was consideration about dropping out of D1. KO made us relevant again and led us competitively out of independent status.
Deane thought fan aspirations of being a nationally competitive program were aiming too high, but Crean was the perfect salesman for the program, brought in Wade, got the Final Four, got the Al built, and played a big role in getting us into the Big East. He built the foundation for where we are today.
Deane, Buzz, and Wojo were all caretakers with varied levels of success. KO & Crean were the architects of where we are today.
is that fact or rumor? We weren't THAT bad under Dukiet, save for his second season, and we joined a good mid-major conference with like-minded schools. Cords was brought in and the decision was "do we want to be Loyola or Georgetown?" Considering MU had just made the decision to move to the BC and joined a conference I cannot imaging dropping from D1 was ever a consideration.
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Buzz bailed because he didn’t believe in the new Big East. He was a complete fake. Higgins in ridiculous looking suits.
Blue and Mayo should have been gone long before they hit the road.
In The Old Big East Buzz made the Big Dance All 5 Years he was in it. 8 NCAA wins, Made 1 Elite 8, 3 Sweet 16s, 4 Round of 32s if you count overlap. Why would anyone run the best coach while at MU besides AL McGuire out. Agree with Billy Hoyle, Fluffy Blue Monster And Lennys Tap. As Fluffy Blue Monster said Buzz was not run out of town. Buzz would be here yet if he wanted. As Billy Hoyle said Buzz bailed since he did not believe in the New Big East for MU. Refs who once nodded at Buzz shook their heads at Buzz. In the New Big East Buzz did not even make the NIT.
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In the modern ACC, he had two things going for him:
1. The ACC doesn't play a balanced schedule. In Buzz's best year he went 12-6, and was very lucky with the teams he played twice. Of the top 8 finishers, he only faced one of them (Virginia) twice. Of the bottom 5 teams, he faced three of them twice (Georgia Tech, Miami, & Notre Dame). It's a lot easier to put up the kind of win totals he did when you only had to play Duke, UNC and FSU once each.
2. The Modern ACC has the equivalent of 3 DePauls. There's a lot of room at the bottom where you can pile up wins, and in his final (and best) season, he tallied 9 of his 12 wins against the bottom six teams.
So good for him--he beat the teams he should have, avoided the upset, and even pulled an upset against Duke. But I wouldn't consider that "coaching his ass off". Never finished better than 5th place in ACC, and only once better than 7th.
Also worth noting that the ACC went from a 16-game conference schedule to an 18-game conference schedule a couple of years before Buzz landed at VaTech. More games = more opportunities for wins than his predecessors.
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I think he means if KO didn’t bring us out of the dumpster fire we may have been rooting for an inferior team in an inferior conference. Same for Crean and his success getting the AL built and helping get us into the Big East. At least I think that is what was meant and it’s hard to argue.
Both KO and Crean brought MU out of the Dukiet wilderness. That is indisputable. Wojo=Dukiet put MU back in the wilderness. That is indisputable.
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2. The Modern ACC has the equivalent of 3 DePauls. There's a lot of room at the bottom where you can pile up wins, and in his final (and best) season, he tallied 9 of his 12 wins against the bottom six teams.
So good for him--he beat the teams he should have, avoided the upset, and even pulled an upset against Duke. But I wouldn't consider that "coaching his ass off". Never finished better than 5th place in ACC, and only once better than 7th.
They were Depaul, 10 conference wins in 3 years before him. Agree to disagree, we clearly have different views on how bad that program was and what it became.
Buzz had a great deal of success at MU, but mostly just maintained the status quo. Didn't raise the program to the next (i.e. Villanova or Gonzaga) level, but didn't slide backwards either. Those were good years, but they weren't program-defining years.
The status quo? Buzz made more S16s in 3 years than MU had since Al. Just cause Crean had an amazing run in 03 doesn’t mean Buzz’s run, including a BE title, was just more of the same. That’s like saying Saban held the status quo at Bama cause they already had a bunch of titles and Gene Stallings had one between Bear Bryant and him.
Nobody did more for the program other than Al than KO. And Crean gave it the marketing push and new look, combined with a perfectly timed/publicized FF run, but no coach since A was better at winning basketball games, including March, than Buzz. Even if he is a phony
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They were Depaul, 10 conference wins in 3 years before him. Agree to disagree, we clearly have different views on how bad that program was and what it became.
They weren't DePaul, dude. You're cherrypicking here. They made a tragically bad decision to replace Seth Greenberg with James Johnson, which led to three abyssmal seasons. From 2007 t0 2011, VaTech won 109 games, i.e. 22 a season, under Greenberg. DePaul has had one 20-win in the last 15 years.
The status quo? Buzz made more S16s in 3 years than MU had since Al. Just cause Crean had an amazing run in 03 doesn’t mean Buzz’s run, including a BE title, was just more of the same.
Yeah, it's exactly what it means. A Final Four > 10 Sweet 16s.
Though, I admit, every time I'm in the Fiserv I gaze up in awe at those Sweet 16 banners.
Nobody did more for the program other than Al than KO. And Crean gave it the marketing push and new look, combined with a perfectly timed/publicized FF run, but no coach since A was better at winning basketball games, including March, than Buzz. Even if he is a phony
But this isn't really true. Their winning percentages at MU were nearly identical. Throw out TC's first season, when he had zero of his own recruits and a, shall we say, roster lacking in talent (John Mueller and John Cliff were starters!) Crean has a definite edge, .681 to .668.
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Yeah Mike Young seems to be doing just fine too. Buzz has won 2 tournament games since the 2013 E8. He had a great run at MU, but it feels like he gets graded on a curve because he's taken two lateral moves since, which is something you don't see great coaches do.
Buzz was to VaTech as to what Kevin O'Neill was to Marquette. Debating if Buzz is a very good basketball coach is silly.
Anyone care to think what would have happened if Wojo came in after Crean? Think that team would have thrived? For the 100th time too, Buzz left Wojo 7 Top 100 kids. Wojo was a horsecrap coach, that's why he finished 154 in his first year at MU, and why his best player transferred out.
The fact Wojo got blown out by 17 and 32 in his two NCAA tourney appearances with a lot of talent on those rosters tells you all you need to know. FIGHT! PLAY ANGRY! COMPETE, COMPETE, COMPETE. Total meathead.
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Buzz was to VaTech as to what Kevin O'Neill was to Marquette. Debating if Buzz is a very good basketball coach is silly.
Anyone care to think what would have happened if Wojo came in after Crean? Think that team would have thrived? For the 100th time too, Buzz left Wojo 7 Top 100 kids. Wojo was a horsecrap coach, that's why he finished 154 in his first year at MU, and why his best player transferred out.
The fact Wojo got blown out by 17 and 32 in his two NCAA tourney appearances with a lot of talent on those rosters tells you all you need to know. FIGHT! PLAY ANGRY! COMPETE, COMPETE, COMPETE. Total meathead.
But Duane doesn’t like Buzz and that’s the essence of the thread.
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But Duane doesn’t like Buzz and that’s the essence of the thread.
LOL. I think we have about 7 posts on Duane and the rest is a pissing match about Buzz's job as an MU coach/merits as a head coach.
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Scoop has a 5 page thread on a tweet from Duane Wilson on buzz Williams. Congrats.
Duane Wilson ended up being a bust who bailed on mu his senior year. Either from injuries, or from a long line of milwaukee area players busting in college. He is not only salty about a coaching maneuver that happens at every college that's not a blue chip, but also upset over being left out of the tbt by marquette alumni.
He's a has been/never was who is now looking for attention. Who cares.
Buzz was the 2nd best coach for Marquette ever. Period. We lost very hard on the buzz leaving train. We got stuck with a useless choir boy for 7 years. It's now almost been a decade since marquettes last ncaa tournament win. We are currently irrelevant. Hopefully Shaka changes that.
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You pushed it to 6 pages. Congrats.
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Scoop has a 5 page thread on a tweet from Duane Wilson on buzz Williams. Congrats.
Duane Wilson ended up being a bust who bailed on mu his senior year. Either from injuries, or from a long line of milwaukee area players busting in college. He is not only salty about a coaching maneuver that happens at every college that's not a blue chip, but also upset over being left out of the tbt by marquette alumni.
He's a has been/never was who is now looking for attention. Who cares.
Buzz was the 2nd best coach for Marquette ever. Period. We lost very hard on the buzz leaving train. We got stuck with a useless choir boy for 7 years. It's now almost been a decade since marquettes last ncaa tournament win. We are currently irrelevant. Hopefully Shaka changes that.
Duane transferred from MU after he graduated, not during his senior year. He led the BE frosh in scoring his first year, in a great BE class. He led MU to a NCAA appearance and kept JjJ at MU as they believed in Wojo who eventually recruited over them (but not well).
Duane is rightly pissed as he was ready to return to Buzz's crappy team as the starting PG after his injury. Then he got the flu and Buzz sat down with the Wilsons and said don't waste a year like Junior, trust me, I will be here. So Duane redshirted. Buzz flamed out and left the Wilsons at the altar which handcuffed his transfer when Wojo came in.
Wojo talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. The list was long and the MKE AAU deserted Wojo. And later the Ellenson and Hauser Mafia.
Duane was a trooper. MU screwed him.
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Scoop has a 5 page thread on a tweet from Duane Wilson on buzz Williams. Congrats.
Duane Wilson ended up being a bust who bailed on mu his senior year. Either from injuries, or from a long line of milwaukee area players busting in college. He is not only salty about a coaching maneuver that happens at every college that's not a blue chip, but also upset over being left out of the tbt by marquette alumni.
He's a has been/never was who is now looking for attention. Who cares.
(https://c.tenor.com/gfaZCt0Z8_8AAAAC/the-simpsons-boom-roasted.gif)
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Buzz was to VaTech as to what Kevin O'Neill was to Marquette. Debating if Buzz is a very good basketball coach is silly.
Anyone care to think what would have happened if Wojo came in after Crean? Think that team would have thrived? For the 100th time too, Buzz left Wojo 7 Top 100 kids. Wojo was a horsecrap coach, that's why he finished 154 in his first year at MU, and why his best player transferred out.
The fact Wojo got blown out by 17 and 32 in his two NCAA tourney appearances with a lot of talent on those rosters tells you all you need to know. FIGHT! PLAY ANGRY! COMPETE, COMPETE, COMPETE. Total meathead.
"Top 100"
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"Top 100"
Ners still can't reconcile that buzz, MUs 2nd best coach ever, also couldn't win with those 7. But hey, math no matta.
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They weren't DePaul, dude. You're cherrypicking here. They made a tragically bad decision to replace Seth Greenberg with James Johnson, which led to three abyssmal seasons. From 2007 t0 2011, VaTech won 109 games, i.e. 22 a season, under Greenberg. DePaul has had one 20-win in the last 15 years.
Before Seth Greenberg, they had 10 straight losing seasons. People mock Buzz's soft schedule this year, but there is a reason Greenberg's team's won 109 games and made 1 NCAA. All in a much weaker ACC. Greenberg made a bad program into an ok one, then downturned and yes they made a disastrous hiring.
I was speaking to what he walked into, the cupcake of the ACC for the last few seasons. Of course they weren't abysmal as Depaul for 15 years, but its not like it was some great program that had a brief downturn
Yeah, it's exactly what it means. A Final Four > 10 Sweet 16s.
Though, I admit, every time I'm in the Fiserv I gaze up in awe at those Sweet 16 banners.
So Jim Larranaga>Leonard Hamilton in terms of coaching credentials and career. Paul Hewitt>Matt Painter. Got it
But this isn't really true. Their winning percentages at MU were nearly identical. Throw out TC's first season, when he had zero of his own recruits and a, shall we say, roster lacking in talent (John Mueller and John Cliff were starters!) Crean has a definite edge, .681 to .668.
...in CUSA. Hardly the same level of competition. Cincy went undefeated in conference that year. Look at the conference schedule for the majority if Buzz's tenure vs Crean's. I really don't think its like for like, IMO
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This thread makes me really happy I had a busy day at the office
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Before Seth Greenberg, they had 10 straight losing seasons. People mock Buzz's soft schedule this year, but there is a reason Greenberg's team's won 109 games and made 1 NCAA. All in a much weaker ACC. Greenberg made a bad program into an ok one, then downturned and yes they made a disastrous hiring.
By what metric are you saying the ACC was "much weaker" when Greenberg was at VaTech. Conference RPI? Final Fours? KenPom?
Show us your work.
Regardless, glad we can agree that VaTech was not DePaul when Buzz took over, as some here have claimed.
So Jim Larranaga>Leonard Hamilton in terms of coaching credentials and career. Paul Hewitt>Matt Painter. Got it
You're obviously being disingenuous here since nothing I've written would lead to such a conclusion.
That said, yeah, Larranaga > Hamilton.
Better career winning percentage. Way better winning percentage at the same school (Miami). Same number of ACC titles in 10 fewer ACC seasons. More Final Fours.
In 14 seasons at George Mason, Larranaga got to 5 NCAA tournaments. In 14 seasons at Miami and Okie State combined, Hamilton got to 3.
What am I missing? Larranaga has consistently had at least as much success, if not more, at historically lesser programs.
...in CUSA. Hardly the same level of competition. Cincy went undefeated in conference that year. Look at the conference schedule for the majority if Buzz's tenure vs Crean's. I really don't think its like for like, IMO
Goalpost shifting.
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This thread makes me really happy I had a busy day at the office
crap, I thought this *was* the office. Guess I should check the address on those paystubs.
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In The Old Big East Buzz made the Big Dance All 5 Years he was in it. 8 NCAA wins, Made 1 Elite 8, 3 Sweet 16s, 4 Round of 32s if you count overlap. Why would anyone run the best coach while at MU besides AL McGuire out. Agree with Billy Hoyle, Fluffy Blue Monster And Lennys Tap. As Fluffy Blue Monster said Buzz was not run out of town. Buzz would be here yet if he wanted. As Billy Hoyle said Buzz bailed since he did not believe in the New Big East for MU. Refs who once nodded at Buzz shook their heads at Buzz. In the New Big East Buzz did not even make the NIT.
Say some Prayers for Mr Cords. Heard he was hospitalized today. It was Mr Cords who whispered in my ear at the press conference announcing Marquette Joining the Old Big East. Whispering Marquette would be very good for a very long time. It was a Cords who said Marquette would be rebuilding when it was announced Marquette was joining the New Big East.
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I think he means if KO didn’t bring us out of the dumpster fire we may have been rooting for an inferior team in an inferior conference. Same for Crean and his success getting the AL built and helping get us into the Big East. At least I think that is what was meant and it’s hard to argue.
ah…got it. I agree w/you both.
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Coaches should build the program upon the success from their predecessor. Buzz wouldn't have had the starting point that he did if not for Crean. And Crean wouldn't have had the starting point he did if not for KO (though Deane tried to f*ck it up).
It looked like Buzz was going to build on Crean's success. The first three years of course had fun moments but weren't any better than the Crean years. Then he managed two consecutive 3 seeds in years 4 and 5 and it looked like maybe he could get the program to the next step in its evolution. Then Blue declared, the house of cards fell and we went from a 3 seed to missing the NIT. A steep drop. To add insult to injury, he left after that year, blowing up a top recruiting class, and left a mess for the next coach to figure out.
So what I think Pakuni was saying, was that KO elevated the program. TC elevated the program. Buzz at best maintained it and I would argue left it in worse shape than he got it. Doesn't mean his accomplishments at MU should be ignored or even that he's a bad coach. Just means he couldn't get us to the next level as program. And to be fair, the better a program gets, the harder it is to move up.
agree. Thx.
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Say some Prayers for Mr Cords. Heard he was hospitalized today. It was Mr Cords who whispered in my ear at the press conference announcing Marquette Joining the Old Big East. Whispering Marquette would be very good for a very long time. It was a Cords who said Marquette would be rebuilding when it was announced Marquette was joining the New Big East.
Prayers out
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By what metric are you saying the ACC was "much weaker" when Greenberg was at VaTech. Conference RPI? Final Fours? KenPom?
Show us your work.
Regardless, glad we can agree that VaTech was not DePaul when Buzz took over, as some here have claimed.
You are telling me an ACC without Louisville, ND, and Cuse and a pre-Tony Bennett UVA (with 1 NCAA win in the last 15 years at that point) is equal to the current iteration? Or basically on par?
With the exception of Pitt, none of the schools added since Seth left were cupcakes or lesser programs than VT. And with UVA, and to a lesser extent FSU turning it on around 2012, you had some additional secondary heft to the top heavy UNC/Duke. If you truly don’t agree, then we can agree to disagree. All good
You're obviously being disingenuous here since nothing I've written would lead to such a conclusion.
I wasn’t trying to be. A bit snarky, sure. But you literally said “Final Four>10 Sweet Sixteens” with an additional snarky comment to show I was a fool for thinking otherwise.
If that wasn’t your point, clearly i missed it.
So I made a comparison of coaches who had more S16s but didn’t have a F4.
Goalpost shifting.
Alright here’s where I’ll dig in. How the F is it goalpost shifting?
You LITERALLY brought up their records while coaching at MU. I specifically pointed out that CUSA competition, aka 16 of Creans games per year, was significantly different competition than Buzz playing 18 BE games a year. If you think the mid 2000s CUSA slate with East Carolina, USF, TCU, UAB, and So Miss was as rigorous as the BE slate that Buzz’s team was facing, then ok. Agree to disagree. I shifted nothing, just pointed out that just because they both coached at MU, that doesn’t meant the competition was equal.
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Say some Prayers for Mr Cords. Heard he was hospitalized today. It was Mr Cords who whispered in my ear at the press conference announcing Marquette Joining the Old Big East. Whispering Marquette would be very good for a very long time. It was a Cords who said Marquette would be rebuilding when it was announced Marquette was joining the New Big East.
Buzz clearly made a mistake re: the new Big East. Too bad for him. The new Big East is very good. Has produced a national champ good, in fact. Marquette rebuilding for 8/9 years is all on Marquette. When football, tv and greed resulted in massive conference realignments, Cords probably recognized something within Marquette’s leadership would mean less than stellar results for a while. Ft Wild was retired. University leadership was no doubt not basketball savvy and did not grasp how basketballcentric MU truly is. Hence, from what you’ve said here, it appears Cords was prophetic. And, thankfully, MU stayed with the BE rather than go into some CUSA-type conference of no names and schlubs. Finally, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel of mediocrity MU has been traveling. (I realize this is way off from a Duane Wilson tweet…but kind of how this discussion has evolved)
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You are telling me an ACC without Louisville, ND, and Cuse and a pre-Tony Bennett UVA (with 1 NCAA win in the last 15 years at that point) is equal to the current iteration? Or basically on par?
So, no metrics or rationale, then?
Fair enough.
Alright here’s where I’ll dig in. How the F is it goalpost shifting?
You LITERALLY brought up their records while coaching at MU.
No, you LITERALLY wrote "but no coach since (Al) was better at winning basketball games, including March, than Buzz."
When I pointed out that this, in fact, was not true, you changed your argument to say that the actual winning of games - the factor you chose, mind you - doesn't matter because some of Crean's wins came in C-USA.
That, my friend, is shifting goalposts. When shown that Crean and Buzz won games at the same rate - and Crean was even better with his own recruits than Buzz was - you decided that winning games didn't matter as much as conference affiliation.
Except during Crean's three years coaching Marquette in the Big East, the team had a .690 winning percentage and won an average 23 games per season. Buzz's winning percentage at Marquette (all Big East, of course) was .668 and he won 23.2 games per season.
So even when accounting for conference affiliation, they won games at the same rate.
But again, this all misses the point. Crean took over a program in a bad (or at best mediocre) place and left it in a good place. Buzz took over a program in a good place and left it in a mediocre place.
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Duane transferred from MU after he graduated, not during his senior year.
Are we going to split straws here? Graduate transfers are considered 5th year seniors. Who cares past that point for basketball.
Duane "led" marquette to the tournament? Now that's a hot take. Do we consider everyone who was on the team to "lead" them?
Duane was over recruited. D1 basketball is a business. That happens, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Are we going to split straws here? Graduate transfers are considered 5th year seniors. Who cares past that point for basketball.
Duane "led" marquette to the tournament? Now that's a hot take. Do we consider everyone who was on the team to "lead" them?
Duane was over recruited. D1 basketball is a business. That happens, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I believe you've mentioned you didn't go to MU which there's nothing wrong with but the "he didn't bail on MU" point is more relevant to any MU alum who would say that. He didn't bail on MU any more so than any of us with non MU post grad degrees did.
I agree he certainly didn't lead us to the tournament.
It's hard for me to believe he was "over recruited" averaging 11.5 pts is freshman and sophomore years. That to me seems like a case of either misuse (he was supposed to be a PG but was playing SG as I recall) or rightfully feeling a bit slighted by Wojo despite being fairly effective in his first two years.
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crap, I thought this *was* the office. Guess I should check the address on those paystubs.
When is the Scoop earnings call?
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Are we going to split straws here? Graduate transfers are considered 5th year seniors. Who cares past that point for basketball.
Duane "led" marquette to the tournament? Now that's a hot take. Do we consider everyone who was on the team to "lead" them?
Duane was over recruited. D1 basketball is a business. That happens, and there's nothing wrong with that.
For some reason you don’t like Duane, and you ripped him in your post. I tried to counterbalance your negative comments and add context. I am sorry I pissed in your cornflakes.
The only difference I guess for me on the definition of senior who “bails” and a graduate like Duane is, is the diploma he earned. As a MU graduate, that means something to many of us. Katin “bailed” on MU (the university) the minute MU lost to South Carolina, for instance.
As to the word “led”, he was part of a group who played significant minutes and made significant contributions (even though playing through a leg injury), including the Nova game (which was the reason MU got off the bubble). I don’t think that team had any “leader” in fact. But he was the veteran glue guy and I believe captain of that team. And I didn’t think anyone who was remotely watching that team would think he was the star.
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So, no metrics or rationale, then?
Fair enough.
No, you LITERALLY wrote "but no coach since (Al) was better at winning basketball games, including March, than Buzz."
When I pointed out that this, in fact, was not true, you changed your argument to say that the actual winning of games - the factor you chose, mind you - doesn't matter because some of Crean's wins came in C-USA.
That, my friend, is shifting goalposts. When shown that Crean and Buzz won games at the same rate - and Crean was even better with his own recruits than Buzz was - you decided that winning games didn't matter as much as conference affiliation.
Except during Crean's three years coaching Marquette in the Big East, the team had a .690 winning percentage and won an average 23 games per season. Buzz's winning percentage at Marquette (all Big East, of course) was .668 and he won 23.2 games per season.
So even when accounting for conference affiliation, they won games at the same rate.
But again, this all misses the point. Crean took over a program in a bad (or at best mediocre) place and left it in a good place. Buzz took over a program in a good place and left it in a mediocre place.
I think you mean KO instead of Crean here. Crean came into a Sweet 16 team, league title, two straight NCAA appearances program.
What one does during a tenure, and how one leaves it, are two separate things. You’d prefer both but what they accomplish while they are there matters most. (Buzz)
As for Duane, that isn’t coach specific or MUBB specific. Several players weren’t thrilled when Crean left etc….
And for MUBB fans, (also not program specific) some (not all) will always make a villain out of any coach that chooses to leave on his or her own for a different school. Crean or Buzz or insert a future coach that does it here. And the more recent coach often takes more of the brunt of it over time.
I think a reasonable observation os to say when MUBB was staring into the abyss, KO, Crean, Buzz all added different things to the program at higher levels than Deane or Wojo.
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Crean came into a Sweet 16 team, league title, two straight NCAA appearances program.
What?
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What?
O’Neill accomplished those things just before Crean arrived. The poster said that Crean inherited a program in a bad or mediocre place.
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What?
He was obviously thinking “Jim Crews,” not “Tom Crean.”
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O’Neill accomplished those things just before Crean arrived. The poster said that Crean inherited a program in a bad or mediocre place.
6years is a long time in college sports... by that logic Shaka came into a program that just went to back to back sweet 16s and an elite 8.
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6years is a long time in college sports... by that logic Shaka came into a program that just went to back to back sweet 16s and an elite 8.
Sure. It’s all relative. It’s fair to say Crean didn’t inherit the best situation. But MUBB still made the NCAA Tourney a couple of more times in Deane’s 5 years and they won 20 plus games 4 of the 5 seasons and so on.
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O’Neill accomplished those things just before Crean arrived. The poster said that Crean inherited a program in a bad or mediocre place.
Are you forgetting about Mike Deanne?
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I think he is.
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Sure. It’s all relative. It’s fair to say Crean didn’t inherit the best situation. But MUBB still made the NCAA Tourney a couple of more times in Deane’s 5 years and they won 20 plus games 4 of the 5 seasons and so on.
And MU won 20plus games 3/7 years under Wojo and had a couple more NCAA years under him. Again the comparison to Shaka's situation is there and nobody would say MU hoops was in a good spot when Wojo was axed.
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TC certainly had a better starting point than KO did...but Mike Deane had a better one than both of them. TC also took Marquette to the next level as a program.
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TC certainly had a better starting point than KO did...but Mike Deane had a better one than both of them. TC also took Marquette to the next level as a program.
Who had a better starting point between Deane and Buzz? I'd say Buzz but I could see a pretty legit argument for Deane since he had Miller, Abraham, McCaskill, and Crawford.
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100% Buzz. Even if you think Deane had the better roster (I'd give it to Buzz) the rest of the program was infinitely better at that point.
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O’Neill accomplished those things just before Crean arrived. The poster said that Crean inherited a program in a bad or mediocre place.
Tom Crean didn't take over from Kevin O'Neill.
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And MU won 20plus games 3/7 years under Wojo and had a couple more NCAA years under him. Again the comparison to Shaka's situation is there and nobody would say MU hoops was in a good spot when Wojo was axed.
Sure. I said in one of my previous posts that KO, Crean, and Buzz were more successful at MUBB (in various ways) than Deane and Wojo. A few posts from others seem to not include Buzz with the other two. I would definitely.
We can get deep into the weeds of basketball budgets, doing much more with less and so on with multiple MUBB subjects, or how the past few decades could have been much worse (or better).
As for Shaka, he’ll get a fair chance to see what he can do. Annual expectations don’t change for me. While I appreciate the long accomplishment goals check list of the other thread, for me it’s about winning the league, making the NCAA’s, winning while there, other tourney or rival accomplishments. Those are the main things.
As for Duane, I understand his position based on his personal experience.
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100% Buzz. Even if you think Deane had the better roster (I'd give it to Buzz) the rest of the program was infinitely better at that point.
What was left in the program for Buzz in Year 2? Sure he had 3 great seniors in Wes, Rel, and Dom? Basically in Year 2 buzz had 1 legit player inherited - Lazar. Mo and Cubby were marginal at best.
I'm optimistic Shaka will be the best we've had since Al - and he completely made over the roster in Year 1.
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What was left in the program for Buzz in Year 2? Sure he had 3 great seniors in Wes, Rel, and Dom? Basically in Year 2 buzz had 1 legit player inherited - Lazar. Mo and Cubby were marginal at best.
I'm optimistic Shaka will be the best we've had since Al - and he completely made over the roster in Year 1.
Are we even talking about year 2? I mean in year three he had even less!
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What was left in the program for Buzz in Year 2? Sure he had 3 great seniors in Wes, Rel, and Dom? Basically in Year 2 buzz had 1 legit player inherited - Lazar. Mo and Cubby were marginal at best.
If only a head coach had the ability to do anything about his year two roster ...
Another thing no one seems to mention ... Tom Crean left Marquette with Buzz Williams. Had Crean not pushed the administration to pony up for Buzz after his trainwreck season at UNO, he'd have never ever been hired as HC. And we probably would have ended up with the likes of Kevin Stallings or Brad Brownell or (gulp) Keno Davis.
If nothing else, that should convince the Buzz-o-philes that Crean left the program in a better place than his successor.
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If only a head coach had the ability to do anything about his year two roster ...
Another thing no one seems to mention ... Tom Crean left Marquette with Buzz Williams. Had Crean not pushed the administration to pony up for Buzz after his trainwreck season at UNO, he'd have never ever been hired as HC. And we probably would have ended up with the likes of Kevin Stallings or Brad Brownell or (gulp) Keno Davis.
If nothing else, that should convince the Buzz-o-philes that Crean left the program in a better place than his successor.
I have always appreciated what Crean did while at MU. Had no ill-well toward him for leaving. However, when resident Crean-o-phile, Chicos Bailbonds/Billy Hoyle started knocking down Buzz and taking all kinds of shots at him? Was ridiculous. Buzz put up great results while at MU. Period. Reloaded the empty cupbard he was left with in Year 2 and MU never missed a beat.
That all aside..was Buzz quirky AF? Yes. Did he push the envelope/edge? Yes. Were the same things true of Al McGuire? Yes. Just weird how some of our fans want to shat on Buzz, many of whom were ProJos.
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I'm just grateful that Tex Winter left the program on such solid footing for Shaka.
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I'm just grateful that Tex Winter left the program on such solid footing for Shaka.
Shakas coming into a program that Jack Nagle literally just brought to the Elite 8. It's in a great spot.
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crap, I thought this *was* the office. Guess I should check the address on those paystubs.
Speaking of "The Office", was Jenna Fischer cuter than a bug's ear or what?
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Speaking of "The Office", was Jenna Fischer cuter than a bug's ear or what?
Why yes I reckon she was a hot as an old lamp on the stove.
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If only a head coach had the ability to do anything about his year two roster ...
Another thing no one seems to mention ... Tom Crean left Marquette with Buzz Williams. Had Crean not pushed the administration to pony up for Buzz after his trainwreck season at UNO, he'd have never ever been hired as HC. And we probably would have ended up with the likes of Kevin Stallings or Brad Brownell or (gulp) Keno Davis.
If nothing else, that should convince the Buzz-o-philes that Crean left the program in a better place than his successor.
We would have ended up with Tony Bennett. He accepted the job right after Buzz accepted after a group of alumni flew to Pullman and asked him to reconsider his initial rejection (his wife wanted him to wait for the LSU job). Then we wouldn't have been on the front pages of major newspapers discussing sexual assault, player arrests, violations resulting in the dismissal of assistant coaches, etc.
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I have always appreciated what Crean did while at MU. Had no ill-well toward him for leaving. However, when resident Crean-o-phile, Chicos Bailbonds/Billy Hoyle started knocking down Buzz and taking all kinds of shots at him? Was ridiculous. Buzz put up great results while at MU. Period. Reloaded the empty cupbard he was left with in Year 2 and MU never missed a beat.
That all aside..was Buzz quirky AF? Yes. Did he push the envelope/edge? Yes. Were the same things true of Al McGuire? Yes. Just weird how some of our fans want to shat on Buzz, many of whom were ProJos.
Covering up sexual assault is beyond "pushing the envelope."
I wasn't around for Al's time, but I suspect he would not have done the same.
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I don't think it is fair to say that Buzz "covered up sexual assault." I think he improperly inserted himself into a sexual assault investigation, but from what I heard, that was mostly due to ignorance of Title IX procedures rather than malicious intent. This is why Tom Cottingham lost his job.
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We would have ended up with Tony Bennett. He accepted the job right after Buzz accepted after a group of alumni flew to Pullman and asked him to reconsider his initial rejection (his wife wanted him to wait for the LSU job). Then we wouldn't have been on the front pages of major newspapers discussing sexual assault, player arrests, violations resulting in the dismissal of assistant coaches, etc.
Ehh ... I put this in the same Scoop Urban Legend category with "Shaka wanted the job in 2014, but his wife wouldn't let him take it."
You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical of a scenario in which a group of alumni fly cross-country to offer the job to a coach after the athletic director and president had already given it to someone else. And I'm even more skeptical of Tony Bennett accepting a job offered by a group of alumni rather than the AD and president.
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I don't think it is fair to say that Buzz "covered up sexual assault." I think he improperly inserted himself into a sexual assault investigation, but from what I heard, that was mostly due to ignorance of Title IX procedures rather than malicious intent. This is why Tom Cottingham lost his job.
Well we do know he gathered the team to get the story straight and reach out to one of the women. That was well reported. I think it then comes down to what does "get the story straight" mean? That could be anything from cover up to trying to simply understand what took place.
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I have always appreciated what Crean did while at MU. Had no ill-well toward him for leaving. However, when resident Crean-o-phile, Chicos Bailbonds/Billy Hoyle started knocking down Buzz and taking all kinds of shots at him? Was ridiculous. Buzz put up great results while at MU. Period. Reloaded the empty cupbard he was left with in Year 2 and MU never missed a beat.
That all aside..was Buzz quirky AF? Yes. Did he push the envelope/edge? Yes. Were the same things true of Al McGuire? Yes. Just weird how some of our fans want to shat on Buzz, many of whom were ProJos.
I'm not arguing that the Buzz years were anything other than excellent. I have many great memories from those times.
I just don't think Buzz's impact on the trajectory of the program was nearly that of Crean or O'Neill (and obviously Al is in a category of his own).
Three straight Sweet 16s is a notable accomplishment. But on the national scene, it pales compared to a Final Four.
Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder are outstanding representatives of the program, but they're not crossover stars like Dwyane Wade.
Wining a share of the Big East title is outstanding. Getting invited to the Big East is program-altering.
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Well we do know he gathered the team to get the story straight and reach out to one of the women. That was well reported. I think it then comes down to what does "get the story straight" mean? That could be anything from cover up to trying to simply understand what took place.
From what I understand, it was more the latter than the former. Completely inappropriate, and now would be an immediately fire-able offense, but I don't think it rose to the level of a cover up.
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I'm not arguing that the Buzz years were anything other than excellent. I have many great memories from those times.
I just don't think Buzz's impact on the trajectory of the program was nearly that of Crean or O'Neill (and obviously Al is in a category of his own).
Three straight Sweet 16s is a notable accomplishment. But on the national scene, it pales compared to a Final Four.
Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder are outstanding representatives of the program, but they're not crossover stars like Dwyane Wade.
Wining a share of the Big East title is outstanding. Getting invited to the Big East is program-altering.
I agree with all of the above.
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Ehh ... I put this in the same Scoop Urban Legend category with "Shaka wanted the job in 2014, but his wife wouldn't let him take it."
You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical of a scenario in which a group of alumni fly cross-country to offer the job to a coach after the athletic director and president had already given it to someone else. And I'm even more skeptical of Tony Bennett accepting a job offered by a group of alumni rather than the AD and president.
Bill Cords was actually quite pissed off at those alums.
Tony was offered first, and turned it down. Next was Sean Miller who also turned it down. The group of alums, before Buzz was offered, went to convince Tony to change his mind (they did not offer). By the time he did and he called Cords it was too late, but had been offered and accepted. In college coaching searches big donors trying to do their own thing happens often since they're often the ones paying the salaries. When St. John's hired Lavin the founder of Vitamin Water, a SJU grad, went rogue and actually offered Billy Donovan.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/billy-donovan-turns-3m-year-offer-leave-florida-gators-st-john-red-storm-article-1.176774
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Ehh ... I put this in the same Scoop Urban Legend category with "Shaka wanted the job in 2014, but his wife wouldn't let him take it."
You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical of a scenario in which a group of alumni fly cross-country to offer the job to a coach after the athletic director and president had already given it to someone else. And I'm even more skeptical of Tony Bennett accepting a job offered by a group of alumni rather than the AD and president.
That's not exactly how it happened. Marquette offered Tony the job but he turned it down because his wife wanted him to go for LSU. Marquette moved on and things ended up progressing with Buzz.
LSU chose to go with Trent Johnson instead of Bennett. Marquette agreed to terms and Buzz signed his contract. 30 minutes later, Tony, now spurned by LSU, called Marquette to ask if the job was still open and they told him they had decided on Buzz. He ended up staying at WSU another year then bounced to Virginia the next year.
The job was there for him and he decided against it, then changed his mind too late. No matter, it's all just what ifs now.
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I heard that Tony was about to take the job but Shaka's wife told him to turn it down.
Or maybe it was Shaka's wife who was about to take it but Stetson Bennett told her to turn it down.
So confusing!
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I can’t believe Marquette almost hired a Badgers legend like Tony Bennett
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I heard that Tony was about to take the job but Shaka's wife told him to turn it down.
Or maybe it was Shaka's wife who was about to take it but Stetson Bennett told her to turn it down.
So confusing!
Marquette really needs to do some soul searching over why they turn off so many coaches' wives.
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Can't find a non-creepy dentist.
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Can't find a non-creepy dentist.
And we can’t find non-creepy patients
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Marquette really needs to do some soul searching over why they turn off so many coaches' wives.
Its just the old real estate axiom, location…location…location. Just not for all.
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Marquette really needs to do some soul searching over why they turn off so many coaches' wives.
I assume it's related to the crime in the area, ai na?
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As much as I respect Bennett as a coach his style is un watchable at times, did it really help Sam to go there, not really. Not sure what Bond sees as well. Buzz recruited a different type of player. Glad they did not get him.
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Over 11,500 vehicles were stolen across the Milwaukee area in 2021. The trend doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon, hey?
Many of the larger municipalities in the Milwaukee area saw an increase of more than 75% when it came to reported vehicle thefts from 2020 to 2021.
Check out this story on jsonline.com: https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/west/news/wauwatosa/2022/01/14/2021-record-setting-year-vehicle-thefts-in-around-milwaukee/9109596002/
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Off-duty Milwaukee police officer shot in Third Ward after intervening in attempted robbery, hey?
https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/off-duty-milwaukee-police-officer-shot-multiple-times-in-third-ward-sources-say
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That's why enrollment is down at colleges and universities across the country, nu?
Parents don't want to pay tuition at Georgia Tech, Texas A&M, Arizona State, Montana or Cornell because of all that darn crime in Milwaukee.
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I can’t believe Marquette almost hired a Badgers legend like Tony Bennett
is he a Badgers legend? Didn’t play in Madison. Played at UWGB. Wasn’t a HC for RED...assistant, but not the HC. Took over as HC at Wash St after his Dad stepped down. I know he wins, but rough style of ball to watch.
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Three straight Sweet 16s is a notable accomplishment.
Two S16s followed by an E8 is even more notable.
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Tom Cottingham
Steve
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Steve
Teve
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I know most of you are joking, but the increase in crime is nationwide. After decades of crime decline, it really is to bad. Hopefully historical trends come back and this is a temporary blip.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/car-theft-spiked-during-pandemic/
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is he a Badgers legend? Didn’t play in Madison. Played at UWGB. Wasn’t a HC for RED...assistant, but not the HC. Took over as HC at Wash St after his Dad stepped down. I know he wins, but rough style of ball to watch.
Just because he didn’t play there and only had a cup of tea on the sideline as an assistant doesn’t keep Walmart Badger fans from claiming him
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I know most of you are joking, but the increase in crime is nationwide. After decades of crime decline, it really is to bad. Hopefully historical trends come back and this is a temporary blip.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/car-theft-spiked-during-pandemic/
Wrong
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/america-having-violence-wave-not-crime-wave/620234/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/many-americans-are-convinced-crime-is-rising-in-the-u-s-theyre-wrong/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/30/us-crime-rate-homcides-explained
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Is it true Duane doesn’t like Buzz because of the crime in Milwaukee or because Tony Bennett’s wife wanted to live in Baton Rogue?
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Off-duty Milwaukee police officer shot in Third Ward after intervening in attempted robbery, hey?
https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/off-duty-milwaukee-police-officer-shot-multiple-times-in-third-ward-sources-say
(https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/single-terrified-eye-peeps-through-venetian-blind-staring-in-panic-picture-id543676802?k=20&m=543676802&s=612x612&w=0&h=8cnRyw94dG0XkSHGvFjOgtxSreZLTNiZv2TDI04k6XM=)
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Over 11,500 vehicles were stolen across the Milwaukee area in 2021. The trend doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon, hey?
Many of the larger municipalities in the Milwaukee area saw an increase of more than 75% when it came to reported vehicle thefts from 2020 to 2021.
Check out this story on jsonline.com: https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/west/news/wauwatosa/2022/01/14/2021-record-setting-year-vehicle-thefts-in-around-milwaukee/9109596002/
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4oiYIs3y5zmzMApdrq2IfR59-Idkluf63Vg&usqp=CAU)
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Wrong
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/america-having-violence-wave-not-crime-wave/620234/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/many-americans-are-convinced-crime-is-rising-in-the-u-s-theyre-wrong/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/30/us-crime-rate-homcides-explained
I’m always open to being wrong, and I am aware of a lot of our and my biases and our poor ability to judge risk. I am very aware of the decrease in crime over long term visitors and for decades, etc.
Did you read the articles you posted. Unless you are specifically limiting and talking about property crimes, and cheery picking while ignoring the crime most are concerned with - violent crime- they contradict your statement that disputes what I posted.
Here is a quote from the first article you posted:
“There was no crime wave—there was a tsunami of lethal violence, and that’s it,” Philip Cook, a crime expert at Duke University, wrote to me in an email.
The murder rate rose by nearly 30 percent, the largest increase on record. There were about 21,500 murders, or 6.5 per 100,000 people. Aggravated assault, the most common form of violent crime, rose 12 percent. Among other components of the violent-crime rate, robbery actually decreased and rape reports were flat. But property crimes overall fell 8 percent, led by drops in burglary and larceny—though motor-vehicle theft increased.”
I could have made a better post, however. Maybe I should have limited my statement on crime increases to violent crime or to be more exact, car jackings which is mainly what I was thinking about and referenced in my link. But I did not properly convey my thoughts in my post. The posts above mine were referencing cars being stolen and car jackings
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I’m always open to being wrong, and I am aware of a lot of our and my biases and our poor ability to judge risk. I am very aware of the decrease in crime over long term visitors and for decades, etc.
Did you read the articles you posted. Unless you are specifically limiting and talking about property crimes, and cheery picking while ignoring the crime most are concerned with - violent crime- they contradict your statement that disputes what I posted.
Here is a quote from the first article you posted:
“There was no crime wave—there was a tsunami of lethal violence, and that’s it,” Philip Cook, a crime expert at Duke University, wrote to me in an email.
The murder rate rose by nearly 30 percent, the largest increase on record. There were about 21,500 murders, or 6.5 per 100,000 people. Aggravated assault, the most common form of violent crime, rose 12 percent. Among other components of the violent-crime rate, robbery actually decreased and rape reports were flat. But property crimes overall fell 8 percent, led by drops in burglary and larceny—though motor-vehicle theft increased.”
I could have made a better post, however. Maybe I should have limited my statement on crime increases to violent crime or to be more exact, car jackings which is mainly what I was thinking about and referenced in my link. But I did not properly convey my thoughts in my post. The posts above mine were referencing cars being stolen and car jackings
All good. Just trying to set the record straight when people say crime is increasing. It really isn't. Violent crime - specifically murder - is increasing. And the majority of that is related to gang activity.
I suppose we could discuss the best way to lower crime - improving economic conditions - but it would get divisive quickly.
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Thanks for that.
And I am also aware of the disconnect between declining crime rates for decades and centuries and millenniums and what people think it true. But people who watch a lot of news think crime is way up not just the recent blip I am talking about. Hopefully a blip. Probably a lot of confirmation bias comes into play then. Plus recency bias, exposure etc.
I’ll risk that this doesn’t turn political. I don’t see it as politician:
But we could easily lower crime. Proven elsewhere. But it is a long term process. But the payback after about 18 years is 9 to 1. Results in lower incarceration by 50%, increase in IQ scores for lower income kids by about 13 points, over 50% increase in high school graduation rates, and similar in college grad rates, etc.
How: 3k and 4K. High quality day care. Yes, governments need to pay for it to make it work. That is why it won’t happen in the US. We generally think short term not long term. If you really want to boost it, stability in housing has similar paybacks.
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How: 3k and 4K. High quality day care. Yes, governments need to pay for it to make it work. That is why it won’t happen in the US. We generally think short term not long term. If you really want to boost it, stability in housing has similar paybacks.
👏 👏 👏 👏
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How: 3k and 4K. High quality day care. Yes, governments need to pay for it to make it work. That is why it won’t happen in the US. We generally think short term not long term. If you really want to boost it, stability in housing has similar paybacks.
Well you have my vote.
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My wife was a victim of a crime at work last night. Theft. However, because it’s so bad out here establishments like hers are told not to stop the perpetrators and not to bother reporting. It’s mainly the homeless doing it. This woman did have a bat with her. It’s out of control but police are understaffed and the homeless have more rights than taxpayers so they go unreported. Break ins at night of businesses are also out of control but again, unreported. At my employer we’ve had 10 catalytic converters stolen since the summer and now holes being drilled in gas tanks to steal gas. No reason to report those.
So yes, there is a crime wave, but stats won’t show it.
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My wife was a victim of a crime at work last night. Theft. However, because it’s so bad out here establishments like hers are told not to stop the perpetrators and not to bother reporting. It’s mainly the homeless doing it. This woman did have a bat with her. It’s out of control but police are understaffed and the homeless have more rights than taxpayers so they go unreported. Break ins at night of businesses are also out of control but again, unreported. At my employer we’ve had 10 catalytic converters stolen since the summer and now holes being drilled in gas tanks to steal gas. No reason to report those.
So yes, there is a crime wave, but stats won’t show it.
That sucks but the Marquette win doesn’t, amirite?
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That sucks but the Marquette win doesn’t, amirite?
It does, but she’s still a little shaken up. Angry she wasn’t allowed to do anything but thankful she didn’t suffer any injuries.
Oh, you can barely get propane tanks out here. Major target for theft by the campers.
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My wife was a victim of a crime at work last night. Theft. However, because it’s so bad out here establishments like hers are told not to stop the perpetrators and not to bother reporting. It’s mainly the homeless doing it. This woman did have a bat with her. It’s out of control but police are understaffed and the homeless have more rights than taxpayers so they go unreported. Break ins at night of businesses are also out of control but again, unreported. At my employer we’ve had 10 catalytic converters stolen since the summer and now holes being drilled in gas tanks to steal gas. No reason to report those.
So yes, there is a crime wave, but stats won’t show it.
Businesses have made it policy for employees to not stop theft for years. Nothing new there.
Businesses not reporting crimes is their own dumb fault.
No reason? You must understand that resources/staffing is decided by crime stats. So, that's dumb to not report crime.
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Businesses have made it policy for employees to not stop theft for years. Nothing new there.
Businesses not reporting crimes is their own dumb fault.
No reason? You must understand that resources/staffing is decided by crime stats. So, that's dumb to not report crime.
If you report a crime by a certain type of perpetrator you can expect a visit from local “organizations” and a boycott.
But go on sticking up for criminals.
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My wife was a victim of a crime at work last night. Theft. However, because it’s so bad out here establishments like hers are told not to stop the perpetrators and not to bother reporting. It’s mainly the homeless doing it. This woman did have a bat with her. It’s out of control but police are understaffed and the homeless have more rights than taxpayers so they go unreported. Break ins at night of businesses are also out of control but again, unreported. At my employer we’ve had 10 catalytic converters stolen since the summer and now holes being drilled in gas tanks to steal gas. No reason to report those.
So yes, there is a crime wave, but stats won’t show it.
Things used to happen to Cheek’s wife that used to strangely correlate with what was being discussed on Scoop.
Weird huh?
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Things used to happen to Cheek’s wife that used to strangely correlate with what was being discussed on Scoop.
Weird huh?
But he's trying so hard not to be racist, you have to give him credit right?
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My wife was a victim of a crime at work last night. Theft. However, because it’s so bad out here establishments like hers are told not to stop the perpetrators and not to bother reporting. It’s mainly the homeless doing it. This woman did have a bat with her. It’s out of control but police are understaffed and the homeless have more rights than taxpayers so they go unreported. Break ins at night of businesses are also out of control but again, unreported. At my employer we’ve had 10 catalytic converters stolen since the summer and now holes being drilled in gas tanks to steal gas. No reason to report those.
So yes, there is a crime wave, but stats won’t show it.
Gosh Jr, your wife sure does have a lot of bad luck
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If you report a crime by a certain type of perpetrator you can expect a visit from local “organizations” and a boycott.
But go on sticking up for criminals.
I reported a crime when someone stole a security camera from my home a couple years ago. I received no visits, boycotts or cancels. So...?
How in the world am I sticking up for criminals? I just said all crimes should be reported.
Jeez man. You sure do say some wacky things.
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Things used to happen to Cheek’s wife that used to strangely correlate with what was being discussed on Scoop.
Weird huh?
Uncanny