2022-23 NBA Thread

[MuggsyB]

Maybe Lebron doesn't play D anymore but the guy is still one of the best offensive players in the league.  As constructed that team may win 40 games.  Would they move Davis?

[cheebs09]

If LeBron and the Lakers didn’t win the championship in the Bubble, would anyone be making asterisk arguments?

[MU82]

Maybe Lebron doesn't play D anymore but the guy is still one of the best offensive players in the league.  As constructed that team may win 40 games.  Would they move Davis?

As I sit here, not knowing cap hit, what he could bring, how "trade-able" he is, etc, I'd definitely consider moving Davis if I ran the Lakers.

Big salary, often injured, never came close to winning squat when not teamed with LeBron.

One way or another, the Lakers are going to have to completely remake themselves in a year or two. If they could get a good haul for Davis, they could get a nice head start. That might piss off LeBron ... but tough crap.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If LeBron and the Lakers didn’t win the championship in the Bubble, would anyone be making asterisk arguments?

Probably not. I mean, the Bucks winning in the bubble would have been awesome because it was a championship. But 2021 was SOOOO much better. So I get why people feel it is different, but that doesn't mean its not legit.

Baylor's title was won fair and square too, but do people think that comes with an asterisk?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

The Lakers might have the worst roster in the NBA.  Lebron will still get his stats, but he's not quite the dominant force he used to be.  Anthony Davis is still solid.  But after those two, just an absolute void of talent.

Lonnie Walker IV has probably been the third best Laker this season and I don't think he's a rotation player for any title contenders. Yikes!

[brewcity77]

Shams reporting Bucks are working on a deal to bring Jae Crowder to Milwaukee. Please make it so.

[jficke13]

The Lakers might have the worst roster in the NBA.  Lebron will still get his stats, but he's not quite the dominant force he used to be.  Anthony Davis is still solid.  But after those two, just an absolute void of talent.

Lonnie Walker IV has probably been the third best Laker this season and I don't think he's a rotation player for any title contenders. Yikes!

I feel like you of all people should not stand for such Juan Toscano Anderson slander.

[MuggsyB]

Shams reporting Bucks are working on a deal to bring Jae Crowder to Milwaukee. Please make it so.

That would be awesome.  But who would they have to give up?

[cheebs09]

That would be awesome.  But who would they have to give up?

I think Grayson Allen would be involved.

[MuggsyB]

If LeBron and the Lakers didn’t win the championship in the Bubble, would anyone be making asterisk arguments?

I still think some would make the asterisk argument Cheebs but probably not as many. 

[MuggsyB]

I think Grayson Allen would be involved.

Allen has been disappointing. 

[Uncle Rico]

That would be awesome.  But who would they have to give up?

Jrue

[brewcity77]

That would be awesome.  But who would they have to give up?

Allen is the rumor. He's an adequate bench player, but his defense is really lacking and he just vanished in the playoffs last year after the Chicago series.

[MuggsyB]

Allen is the rumor. He's an adequate bench player, but his defense is really lacking and he just vanished in the playoffs last year after the Chicago series.

He's a considerably better shooter but when they needed him vs Boston he was basically a no show.  Jae's ability to defend would be an asset for Milwaukee.  Essentially he would play the Tucker role.

[MuggsyB]

If Ingles is healthy that would help too.

[wadesworld]

If I knew Ingles was healthy and good I’d give up Allen for Crowder. But as it is that makes the shooting worse on the Bucks, and shooting is they key. The Bucks got smoked from behind the ark in the C’s series. Yes, Allen stunk offensively and defensively in that series. But he was being asked to play a much bigger role than he’s needed to when the roster is healthy. He’s very good for what he needs to be, and with the addition of Ingles there’s more options if teams are attacking him defensively. If Middleton stays healthy last year, there’s a very good chance Grayson is a solid contributor for a title team.

Also, they want a guy who can “shut down” players like KD come Playoff time like PJ Tucker did. KD had a historically great scoring series against the Bucks. Nobody really shuts those guys down.

Regarding the Mickey Mouse title, it’s still a title, but just look at the teams that advanced and how they shot the ball. Jimmy, Jae, Duncan all shot WAY over their heads in the bubble compared to their career numbers. Same with Rondo and AD with the Lakers. It was very different there.

[Uncle Rico]

If I knew Ingles was healthy and good I’d give up Allen for Crowder. But as it is that makes the shooting worse on the Bucks, and shooting is they key. The Bucks got smoked from behind the ark in the C’s series. Yes, Allen stunk offensively and defensively in that series. But he was being asked to play a much bigger role than he’s needed to when the roster is healthy. He’s very good for what he needs to be, and with the addition of Ingles there’s more options if teams are attacking him defensively. If Middleton stays healthy last year, there’s a very good chance Grayson is a solid contributor for a title team.

Also, they want a guy who can “shut down” players like KD come Playoff time like PJ Tucker did. KD had a historically great scoring series against the Bucks. Nobody really shuts those guys down.

Regarding the Mickey Mouse title, it’s still a title, but just look at the teams that advanced and how they shot the ball. Jimmy, Jae, Duncan all shot WAY over their heads in the bubble compared to their career numbers. Same with Rondo and AD with the Lakers. It was very different there.

It’s hard to get smoked behind a giant ark, too.

[MuggsyB]

If I knew Ingles was healthy and good I’d give up Allen for Crowder. But as it is that makes the shooting worse on the Bucks, and shooting is they key. The Bucks got smoked from behind the ark in the C’s series. Yes, Allen stunk offensively and defensively in that series. But he was being asked to play a much bigger role than he’s needed to when the roster is healthy. He’s very good for what he needs to be, and with the addition of Ingles there’s more options if teams are attacking him defensively. If Middleton stays healthy last year, there’s a very good chance Grayson is a solid contributor for a title team.

Also, they want a guy who can “shut down” players like KD come Playoff time like PJ Tucker did. KD had a historically great scoring series against the Bucks. Nobody really shuts those guys down.

Regarding the Mickey Mouse title, it’s still a title, but just look at the teams that advanced and how they shot the ball. Jimmy, Jae, Duncan all shot WAY over their heads in the bubble compared to their career numbers. Same with Rondo and AD with the Lakers. It was very different there.

I don't think it's a no brainer trade.  I probably trust Crowder a bit more than Allen but shooting may be more important?  I dunno.  Could Nwora turn the corner?  He's a pretty good scorer.

[MUBurrow]

Wades - that strikes me as a good breakdown of the pros and cons, particularly on offense.  Is there any overlap between Giannis and Crowder on defense, and could another ancillary part of this be shifting some of Giannis's defensive load onto Crowder to keep him fresher and/or more available to roam and protect the rim?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'd make that trade in a second.  With Jae you get a guy who can guard on the perimeter, who hustles and hit an occasional shot.  He slides nicely into the PJ Tucker role from two seasons ago.  With Connaughton, Middleton, Holiday, Lopez, and even an occasional Portis, they have plenty of guys who can hit threes.

Oh and last year, Jae hit them at a 38.9% clip, taking 6.3 a game.  Allen was 40.9% at 5.9 per game.  Not much of a difference.

[MUBurrow]

These clips going around of the Lakers-Blazers game last night are great.  Nurkic walking away from AD about to pull up from 3, Russ Time being the opposite of Dame Time.  This Lakers team is no bueno.

[MUfan12]

I'd make that trade in a second.  With Jae you get a guy who can guard on the perimeter, who hustles and hit an occasional shot.  He slides nicely into the PJ Tucker role from two seasons ago.  With Connaughton, Middleton, Holiday, Lopez, and even an occasional Portis, they have plenty of guys who can hit threes.

I'll disagree with this. I think Wes already does a bunch of that stuff for the Bucks. Where they have really struggled is creating halfcourt offense in the playoffs. Allen is a smart cutter and can put the ball on the deck and create better than Jae. Certainly a downgrade defensively, but that end of the floor isn't an area they need to upgrade too much.

Bucks have too many stationary dudes on the perimeter. Rather than add one more with Jae, I'd rather them find someone who can break down a defense.

[Jockey]

Allen is the rumor. He's an adequate bench player, but his defense is really lacking and he just vanished in the playoffs last year after the Chicago series.

Brew, here is a comment from Eric Nehn who coves the Bucks for The Athletic:

Moving Allen, which appears to absolutely necessary in a deal for Crowder from a contract perspective, would take one of the Bucks’ best shooters off the roster and add a player that is instead an average shooter. While some might question Allen’s status as an elite 3-point shooter after attempting only 24 3s in seven games against the Celtics and making just 20.8 percent of those attempts, the criticism itself provides the answer. Allen struggled in that series because the Celtics viewed him as a threat. They chased him around screens and actively ran him off the 3-point line because they knew he could hurt them.

While Crowder has certainly had strong shooting performances in playoff series, teams don’t seem to care whether or not he takes 3-pointers. When Giannis Antetokounmpo is one of your primary creators, this can be a major problem. Every inch of space a defense uses to guard an elite shooter is exponentially more important in Milwaukee because those inches widen gaps for Antetokounmpo to puncture and weaken the overall strength of the wall trying to keep him from the rim.


I tend to agree with this, but it would certainly depend on the Playoff opponent. Jae could be more valuable against certain teams. It is strange though, that the Suns want no part of him even when he is still under contract..

[Uncle Rico]

Brew, here is a comment from Eric Nehn who coves the Bucks for The Athletic:

Moving Allen, which appears to absolutely necessary in a deal for Crowder from a contract perspective, would take one of the Bucks’ best shooters off the roster and add a player that is instead an average shooter. While some might question Allen’s status as an elite 3-point shooter after attempting only 24 3s in seven games against the Celtics and making just 20.8 percent of those attempts, the criticism itself provides the answer. Allen struggled in that series because the Celtics viewed him as a threat. They chased him around screens and actively ran him off the 3-point line because they knew he could hurt them.

While Crowder has certainly had strong shooting performances in playoff series, teams don’t seem to care whether or not he takes 3-pointers. When Giannis Antetokounmpo is one of your primary creators, this can be a major problem. Every inch of space a defense uses to guard an elite shooter is exponentially more important in Milwaukee because those inches widen gaps for Antetokounmpo to puncture and weaken the overall strength of the wall trying to keep him from the rim.


I tend to agree with this, but it would certainly depend on the Playoff opponent. Jae could be more valuable against certain teams. It is strange though, that the Suns want no part of him even when he is still under contract..

If he hadn’t played at Marquette, just about all Bucks fans would pass on this deal

[MuggsyB]

Brew, here is a comment from Eric Nehn who coves the Bucks for The Athletic:

Moving Allen, which appears to absolutely necessary in a deal for Crowder from a contract perspective, would take one of the Bucks’ best shooters off the roster and add a player that is instead an average shooter. While some might question Allen’s status as an elite 3-point shooter after attempting only 24 3s in seven games against the Celtics and making just 20.8 percent of those attempts, the criticism itself provides the answer. Allen struggled in that series because the Celtics viewed him as a threat. They chased him around screens and actively ran him off the 3-point line because they knew he could hurt them.

While Crowder has certainly had strong shooting performances in playoff series, teams don’t seem to care whether or not he takes 3-pointers. When Giannis Antetokounmpo is one of your primary creators, this can be a major problem. Every inch of space a defense uses to guard an elite shooter is exponentially more important in Milwaukee because those inches widen gaps for Antetokounmpo to puncture and weaken the overall strength of the wall trying to keep him from the rim.


I tend to agree with this, but it would certainly depend on the Playoff opponent. Jae could be more valuable against certain teams. It is strange though, that the Suns want no part of him even when he is still under contract..

Interesting perspective.  As I stated it's not a no brainer trade.