Reality check with "elite" performances

[Cheeks]

I'll leave it here, not going to call out anyone.  Am only going to address that this idea we should be in the NCAA tournament every year and the Sweet 16 3 of 5....those are great goals, here's how often it happens.

There are currently 9 schools out of 352 that have gone to the NCAA tournament more than 5 times in a row.  NINE

Kansas
Duke
Michigan State
Gonzaga
Cincinnati (9)
North Carolina (9)
Villanova (7)
Kentucky (6)
Virginia (6)

From those above that have gone to the Sweet 16 in three of five years currently active.

Virginia
Kentucky
North Carolina
Gonzaga
Duke
Kansas

Six schools in DI have gone to the Sweet 16 three times in the last 5 years.

Goals are great, even the best programs in this country with unlimited resources have a tough time reaching these goals.

[MarquetteFan94]

I'll leave it here, not going to call out anyone.  Am only going to address that this idea we should be in the NCAA tournament every year and the Sweet 16 3 of 5....those are great goals, here's how often it happens.

There are currently 9 schools out of 352 that have gone to the NCAA tournament more than 5 times in a row.  NINE

Kansas
Duke
Michigan State
Gonzaga
Cincinnati (9)
North Carolina (9)
Villanova (7)
Kentucky (6)
Virginia (6)

Those that have gone to the Sweet 16 in three of five years currently active.

Virginia
Kentucky
North Carolina
Gonzaga
Duke
Kansas

Six schools in DI have gone to the Sweet 16 three times in the last 5 years.

Goals are great, even the best programs in this country with unlimited resources have a tough time reaching these goals.

How big is the list for making the Sweet 16 once every 6 years?  Or even the second round? 

That Mark Few quote is embarrassing.  The tournament is a crap shoot?!  It’s the equivalent of the playoffs; for which ultimate success is based.

[mu_hilltopper]

There are extreme views on both sides that should be disregarded.

Making the tournament every year, S16 all the time.  Extreme, expectations too high.

Years and years of zero tourney wins is OK if the program is clean.  Extreme, expectations too low.

[Bocephys]

There are extreme views on both sides that should be disregarded.

Making the tournament every year, S16 all the time.  Extreme, expectations too high.

Years and years of zero tourney wins is OK if the program is clean.  Extreme, expectations too low.

You just don't want it hard enough, Topper.  If you desire something as a fan hard enough, you are entitled to it.  It's in the Scoop EULA.

[Cheeks]

How big is the list for making the Sweet 16 once every 6 years?  Or even the second round? 

That Mark Few quote is embarrassing.  The tournament is a crap shoot?!  It’s the equivalent of the playoffs; for which ultimate success is based.

Embarrassing? No.  Accurate? Yes

I sure hope Mark Few doesn’t come around for a MU opening, it would be embarrassing to have to not hire him or Coach K and others that actually do this for a living and call it like it is.

There is no playoff system in the US in a major level event structured like this which is also why so few times the best overall team comes out with the title.  Mark Few nails it.

[Goose]

It is very easy for Mark Few to make those comments about the NCAA, he is as secure as coach could possibly be. Seriously Chico's, you have become unhinged over the past couple of weeks. Why argue what elite is my definition? Why the numerous posts showing why MU cannot be elite or really good?

For me, I want MU to be relevant in the big picture. Does that make them elite, who cares? If you are in the national discussion every year, it means you have a program that everyone knows. Is Gonzaga elite? Not by definition, but take their place in ball landscape everyday of the week. That said, I would want my coach to focus on March and not dismiss it.

[Cheeks]

Stability


The average tenure of the current Sweet 16 coaches is 12 years.

As a reminder, we have had one coach go beyond 12 years in the last 50 years and that Was also our most successful run in our history.

Stability would be nice. 

[Cheeks]

It is very easy for Mark Few to make those comments about the NCAA, he is as secure as coach could possibly be. Seriously Chico's, you have become unhinged over the past couple of weeks. Why argue what elite is my definition? Why the numerous posts showing why MU cannot be elite or really good?

For me, I want MU to be relevant in the big picture. Does that make them elite, who cares? If you are in the national discussion every year, it means you have a program that everyone knows. Is Gonzaga elite? Not by definition, but take their place in ball landscape everyday of the week. That said, I would want my coach to focus on March and not dismiss it.

Mark Few isn't dismissing March, nor am I.  He is saying there is more to it than just March, especially because it is a CRAPSHOOT tournament.

I would take Gonzaga's success too.  Mark Few didn't always have that security and plenty of people calling for his head over the years, which is why he made the statement. 

I'm just trying to understand the definition of elite because we some people here making statements like we should be the next Duke or repeat the 1970's, we have others that are equating it much differently. 

To me, it is about stability, and we don't have it. I want MU to be at the top of the food chain as much as you do, but that requires stability.  Unhinged = thinking we are Duke, or the 70's are a snap away from the right hire.  If that person isn't here for a LONG time, you can't get sustained success by the very definition of what sustained means.

[brewcity77]

Mark Few isn't dismissing March, nor am I.  He is saying there is more to it than just March, especially because it is a CRAPSHOOT tournament.

Wait, so you think there's luck involved in NCAA results? Now I'm totally confused. Could you please explain where you stand on this another 3,657 times, and rather than just a quote, include a detailed animated pictorial diagram in your signature so everyone knows where you really stand? Because so far your comments on this have been very ambiguous.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Thanks for posting. Solid info and hopefully some of the lunatics on this board use this as perspective when making demands on our program.

I said 4 out of 5 tourney and 2.5 out of 5 for s16 (so 5 every 10).

Any idea what the s16 number increases to when dropped from 3 to 2?

[Cheeks]

Wait, so you think there's luck involved in NCAA results? Now I'm totally confused. Could you please explain where you stand on this another 3,657 times, and rather than just a quote, include a detailed animated pictorial diagram in your signature so everyone knows where you really stand? Because so far your comments on this have been very ambiguous.

I think this one next.  More recent, Painter said it just last week.

"But you all know, it's very fragile. The NCAA tournament's a crap shoot. You play on a neutral court and everybody's good."
-Matt Painter, 2019, Purdue Head Coach in the Sweet 16

[79Warrior]

I think this one next.  More recent, Painter said it just last week.

"But you all know, it's very fragile. The NCAA tournament's a crap shoot. You play on a neutral court and everybody's good."
-Matt Painter, 2019, Purdue Head Coach in the Sweet 16

Life is a crapshoot.

[Bocephys]

Life is a crapshoot.

We're all day to day

[MarquetteFan94]

Embarrassing? No.  Accurate? Yes

I sure hope Mark Few doesn’t come around for a MU opening, it would be embarrassing to have to not hire him or Coach K and others that actually do this for a living and call it like it is.

There is no playoff system in the US in a major level event structured like this which is also why so few times the best overall team comes out with the title.  Mark Few nails it.

Nope, nope, nope.

Think Few’s opinion of March would be different if he ever closed the deal?  You can bet on it. 

He’s a great coach, with a program we should envy but until he wins it all, he’ll be an also-ran.

Name one coach mentioned among the all-time elite that has not won at least one title.

He and Marv Levy probably have similar views on post-season success.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Nope, nope, nope.

Think Few’s opinion of March would be different if he ever closed the deal?  You can bet on it. 

He’s a great coach, with a program we should envy but until he wins it all, he’ll be an also-ran.

Name one coach mentioned among the all-time elite that has not won at least one title.

He and Marv Levy probably have similar views on post-season success.

Bud Grant?

[Lennys Tap]

Six schools in DI have gone to the Sweet 16 three times in the last 5 years.

Buzz made it 3 times in 3 years with an Elite 8 to boot. Guess that makes him the elite of elites!

[Cheeks]

Life is a crapshoot.

Agree. 

[Cheeks]

Nope, nope, nope.

Think Few’s opinion of March would be different if he ever closed the deal?  You can bet on it. 

He’s a great coach, with a program we should envy but until he wins it all, he’ll be an also-ran.

Name one coach mentioned among the all-time elite that has not won at least one title.

He and Marv Levy probably have similar views on post-season success.

Coach K has closed the deal multiple times and had called it a crapshoot.

So that kind of destroys that argument.

[MarquetteFan94]

Coach K has closed the deal multiple times and had called it a crapshoot.

So that kind of destroys that argument.

He’s earned the right to say that and would love to see the quote/source.

[Marquetteauburn]

I'll leave it here, not going to call out anyone.  Am only going to address that this idea we should be in the NCAA tournament every year and the Sweet 16 3 of 5....those are great goals, here's how often it happens.

There are currently 9 schools out of 352 that have gone to the NCAA tournament more than 5 times in a row.  NINE

Kansas
Duke
Michigan State
Gonzaga
Cincinnati (9)
North Carolina (9)
Villanova (7)
Kentucky (6)
Virginia (6)

Those that have gone to the Sweet 16 in three of five years currently active.

Virginia
Kentucky
North Carolina
Gonzaga
Duke
Kansas

Six schools in DI have gone to the Sweet 16 three times in the last 5 years.

Goals are great, even the best programs in this country with unlimited resources have a tough time reaching these goals.

Thank you! I knew a minority but loud portion of the fan base would never come down to earth after three straight Sweet 16s. An unheard of run that we will never see again.

Prior to that run, Marquette had made 2 Sweet 16s in 31 years. If Wojo does not make two Sweet 16s by 2045 to hold par, then I will join the call to get rid of him!

Mark Few is great - and I'm sure many of our critics would have called for his firing over and over during his first 15 years because he never made the Elite 8 - including the last 5 years of that during which he never even won his second round game - even losing with a 1-seed in the 2nd round. Would any of you attacking Wojo have really wanted to let him go to his 16th year to enjoy these last 5 years?

[Jon]

Nope, nope, nope.

Think Few’s opinion of March would be different if he ever closed the deal?  You can bet on it. 

He’s a great coach, with a program we should envy but until he wins it all, he’ll be an also-ran.

Name one coach mentioned among the all-time elite that has not won at least one title.

He and Marv Levy probably have similar views on post-season success.

Lou Carnesecca, Brad Stevens, Pete Carill, Eddie Sutton, Majerus, Huggins...

Who would take  Jim Harrick, Tubby Smith, Joe B Hall, or Kevin Ollie over any of those guys??

[Cheeks]

Buzz made it 3 times in 3 years with an Elite 8 to boot. Guess that makes him the elite of elites!

Davidson is still wiping the pee off their leg, but I am happy they pissed all over themselves to give us that one.

[Cheeks]

Point of clarity, a poster sent me a note that a few schools went to Sweet 16 3 of 5 years not on my list....he is correct, but this is why they weren’t listed.  I was showing how many schools make it 5 of 5 to the NCAA tournament....only 9 schools currently.  From that list, only 6 made it to Sweet 16 in 3 of 5 years.

Oregon, Wisconsin, Meatchicken have also had three Sweet 16s in 3 of 5 years, but they didn’t meet the other criteria folks here have said we have to meet....ncaa each year. 

[brewcity77]

Davidson is still wiping the pee off their leg, but I am happy they pissed all over themselves to give us that one.

You know this isn't true. In the final 1:10, Davidson shot 75% from the line, 100% from the floor, & scored 1.25 ppp with 1 turnover. It wasn't Davidson peeing on themselves at all, it was Marquette's shooting reverting to the statistical norm.

[Silent Verbal]

Davidson is still wiping the pee off their leg, but I am happy they pissed all over themselves to give us that one.

If you can’t take any joy in one of the most thrilling comebacks in Marquette history, you need to find a new team to root for.