New Orleans fans "feel sorry for MU players"

[GGGG]

Before DJ went down, this team was 24-5, 12-2 in conference and ranked in the top 10. They were in far better position and performing far better than they had the previous year.

Jimmy Butler is not a difference maker, at least not this year. He's a luxury.
If given a choice for this team, I'd take Ooze over Jimmy without thinking twice. Not because Ooze is the better player - he's not -but because he fills a far greater need. With Ooze, MU had a small semblance of a post threat, a guy who could give you 6-12 points on a given night along with a steady 6+ boards every night. And he could give the team some defense - and five more fouls - against the likes of Blair (who scored eight points in two games against MU last year), Thabeet, etc. Right now, all MU has is Burke, who's not bad defensively, but is a major, major liability on the offensive side of the court. MU might as well be playing 4-on-5 when he's out there.

Again, I'm not arguing who's the better player. But the team would be better off with a guy like Ooze simply because they're so soft in the middle and get so little out of the post position.

Well, we were 12-2 in conference and went 0-4 afterwards not just because DJ was hurt, but because those were four of the toughest teams on our entire schedule.

And I'm having trouble figuring out something.  You seem to be saying that last year's team was more talented, or at least more complete.  I guess I don't buy that.  This year's team was expected to do more than what last year's team did.  To me, unless they get to the Sweet 16, I really don't know if you can say that Buzz did better than TC this year.

[Lennys Tap]

Well, we were 12-2 in conference and went 0-4 afterwards not just because DJ was hurt, but because those were four of the toughest teams on our entire schedule.

And I'm having trouble figuring out something.  You seem to be saying that last year's team was more talented, or at least more complete.  I guess I don't buy that.  This year's team was expected to do more than what last year's team did.  To me, unless they get to the Sweet 16, I really don't know if you can say that Buzz did better than TC this year.



This year's team was ranked #16 at the start of the season and picked #6 in the Big East by the coaches. Last year's team was rated #11 and picked #3 inthe Big East. You may have expected MU to do better this year, but the experts (writers and coaches) didn't.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well, we were 12-2 in conference and went 0-4 afterwards not just because DJ was hurt, but because those were four of the toughest teams on our entire schedule.

And I'm having trouble figuring out something.  You seem to be saying that last year's team was more talented, or at least more complete.  I guess I don't buy that.  This year's team was expected to do more than what last year's team did.  To me, unless they get to the Sweet 16, I really don't know if you can say that Buzz did better than TC this year.



This year's team was ranked #16 at the start of the season and picked #6 in the Big East by the coaches. Last year's team was rated #11 and picked #3 inthe Big East. You may have expected MU to do better this year, but the experts (writers and coaches) didn't.

The writers and coaches also picked Notre Dame and Georgetown to make the NCAAs this year.....Notre Dame even got one vote to win the Big East.  Preseason picks mean nothing.

[Lennys Tap]

Chicos,

The Wizard said that this year's team was EXPECTED to be better than last. By definition EXPECTATIONS precede the actual event. You can scream all you want that EXPECTATIONS mean nothing. As you are fond of saying, you are entitled to your opinion but not your facts. And the fact is that our expectations were lower based on the views of the basketball writers, the coaches who vote in the ESPN poll and the Big East coaches.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos,

The Wizard said that this year's team was EXPECTED to be better than last. By definition EXPECTATIONS precede the actual event. You can scream all you want that EXPECTATIONS mean nothing. As you are fond of saying, you are entitled to your opinion but not your facts. And the fact is that our expectations were lower based on the views of the basketball writers, the coaches who vote in the ESPN poll and the Big East coaches.

Problem is that comparing one year's picks and the next year's picks is flawed, completely flawed.

We could be an average team and picked to go 5th on year but then be a sensational team the next year and still be picked 5th because it depends how the rest of the conference is.

This year, MU is better than last year, but the conference is WAY BETTER than last year and as such, that's why the "expectations" should not be compared from one year to the next.  They are totally different because you have 15 other variables (i.e., the other  Big East teams)

[RawdogDX]

I've never suggested either of you have an anti-Buzz agenda, so I can't speak to that. But what I did was answer/take issue with the obviously rhetorical questions Rawdog had asked regarding what had Buzz proven. Because his clear implication was that Buzz had proven nothing - including the things he brought up. Because, contrary to what he was implying, Buzz has outcoached someone(s) and Buzz had recruited a winning team. I'm not sure why there's an argument, because the facts are there for all to see. I suspect you agree, because you went about changing Rawdog's questions.

Is it not possible to believe Buzz has proven some things, and yet still has much to prove? To the best of my knowledge, those aren't mutually exclusive propositions.

What a load of BS P.  I came up with some things buzz hasn't done yet.  He had one pretty good year where he won 2 more conference games than i thought he would. (then again i thought GT and ND would be good teams this year)  And he wasn't really embaressed once during conference play, something i can't say about a single Crean year.  The fact is that anyone who posts something as non-confrontational as "our first year coach has a few things to do before convincing me he's a good coach, beyond a shadow of a doubt."  will get jumped on by Buzzes jersey chases that are on this board.

[RawdogDX]

Finally, you say he hasn't pulled any upsets. Proof "beyond a shadow of a doubt" says you are wrong, yet you have the temerity to suggest that when a 5 point UNDERDOG beats the FAVORITE it's not an upset. And you know this why? Because you live in Vegas and spend 10-20 hours a week in casinos? Congrats on what must be your only hobby, but I'm guessing if Vegas will let me bet the money line pay me $1.70 or so for each $1 I bet on a 5 pt dog they think it's an upset.

I looked it up.  We were actually 2.5 and 3 point dogs.  The page i pulled it up on didn't have a "money line" but i'll bet anything it wasn't +170, which is what you were trying to say. (in some awkward method)
If you think you are a few point dog and win that it is considered an upset then fine, you are one of the people who say a 9 beating an 8 is an upset.  Which is lame.
Furthermore since you need to get some lessons on the spread, Home v Away in college basketball is a 9 point swing.  Which means that vegas thought we were a superior team and was giving the home team their points.  Sorry if that doesn't convince me beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I go hiking twice a week(red rock, mount Charleston, Zion, and the grand canyon are all easy drives from vegas), bike and take spin classes, follow MU basketball, spend a lot of time with my hot girlfriend and act as a tour guide a couple times a month for visiting friends.  Pretty sure my hobby list out ranks yours.

And i notice you decided not to accuse me of bias or having an agenda, thanks appreciate that and will take it as an apology, which I don't accept.

[Lennys Tap]

Problem is that comparing one year's picks and the next year's picks is flawed, completely flawed.

We could be an average team and picked to go 5th on year but then be a sensational team the next year and still be picked 5th because it depends how the rest of the conference is.

This year, MU is better than last year, but the conference is WAY BETTER than last year and as such, that's why the "expectations" should not be compared from one year to the next.  They are totally different because you have 15 other variables (i.e., the other  Big East teams)
Chicos,

I'm going to go through this one more time slowly. Last year we were EXPECTED to be the 11th best team in the country and this year we were EXPECTED to be the 16th best team in the country. You are free to opine that both the writers and the coaches were wrong in setting those expectations. You are not free to opine that those weren't the expectations.[this /quote]

[Lennys Tap]

Rawdog,

YOU were the one who said MU was a 5pt dog in those games, not me. When the underdog wins it's an upset. In fact, it's the definition of an upset. Please don't try to educate me vis-a-vis gambling with your at best rudimentary knowledge. I've forgotten more about it than you'll ever know.

You seem to be a very angry and defensive young man. You even seem angry when you talk about your "hot girlfriend" and your hobbies. That is a shame. Good luck with this in the future.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sure I am free to opine whether the expectations by a bunch of people that randomly fill out a sheet of paper without seeing anyone play is the authority of what expectations should be.  You bought into those expectations, I don't.  I don't buy into ANY of those preseason expectations because they don't mean anything.

I'd like to know how many head coaches REALLY filled out those predictions and didn't have their SID or assistant coach (or wife) for that matter fill them out.

[Lennys Tap]

As I said, you are entitled to disagree with the basketball writers of America, the college coaches, Street and Smith, The Sporting News, Athlon, Sports Illustrated, the Blue Ribbon Yearbook and any of the other people who get payed to set team's expectations. You are not entitled to disagree with the fact that they are the recognized authorities on setting them.

[Pakuni]

The writers and coaches also picked Notre Dame and Georgetown to make the NCAAs this year.....Notre Dame even got one vote to win the Big East.  Preseason picks mean nothing.

Wrong.
Preseason predictions set expectations. And the issue Wizard was exactly that - he claims this year's team had greater expectations than last year's. It goes to the very heart of the matter. Contrary to his claim, MU's expectations for this season were, in fact, lower than they were a year ago.
We're not talking about preseason predictions as a measure of future occurrences. We're talking about expectations.

[Pakuni]

What a load of BS P.  I came up with some things buzz hasn't done yet.  He had one pretty good year where he won 2 more conference games than i thought he would. (then again i thought GT and ND would be good teams this year)  And he wasn't really embaressed once during conference play, something i can't say about a single Crean year.  The fact is that anyone who posts something as non-confrontational as "our first year coach has a few things to do before convincing me he's a good coach, beyond a shadow of a doubt."  will get jumped on by Buzzes jersey chases that are on this board.

Since we can't all have awesome hobbies like walking - I mean, hiking - and hot girlfriends in Vegas, some of us have to become Buzzes jersey chases.

Yes, you did post some things Buzz hasn't proven yet. Problem is, some of those are things he has, in fact, proven. As I illustrated. I didn't think pointing that out - in a reply, by the way, in which I said you were mostly correct - would cause such controversy.

[RawdogDX]

Rawdog,

YOU were the one who said MU was a 5pt dog in those games, not me. When the underdog wins it's an upset. In fact, it's the definition of an upset. Please don't try to educate me vis-a-vis gambling with your at best rudimentary knowledge. I've forgotten more about it than you'll ever know.

You seem to be a very angry and defensive young man. You even seem angry when you talk about your "hot girlfriend" and your hobbies. That is a shame. Good luck with this in the future.

???  What the hell?      You obviously are too old to be on the internet.   
I think the person with a probelm is you.    You see when you read posts, DO NOT attempt to insert whatever tone of voice fits your guess at people's personality.  I wasn't mad when i was talking to you during the last post, i was board.   
 Now I'm annoyed that you are going to sit there and read some sort of fury into my typed messages.   
I'm sorry that you can't have fun communicating with people, I'm sure that your firends and family enjoy your holier than thou, dismissive, attitude.    I've never seen a single post you've written that is anything more than an attack on crean or a blindly loyal defence of buzz, you add nothing, and now ignored.   

Emotioncons added to help the elderly

[RawdogDX]

Since we can't all have awesome hobbies like walking - I mean, hiking - and hot girlfriends in Vegas, some of us have to become Buzzes jersey chases.

Yes, you did post some things Buzz hasn't proven yet. Problem is, some of those are things he has, in fact, proven. As I illustrated. I didn't think pointing that out - in a reply, by the way, in which I said you were mostly correct - would cause such controversy.

I didn't have a problem with your response for three reasons:
1) You started off with "generally you are correct."  (and i agree, I am.  )
2) You didn't accuse me of having an obvious agenda.
3) I was out of town and didn't read it till right now.


Of cousre while I was out hiking in zion national park with my hot girlfriend, I was thinking about buzz the entire time.  That would be thin buzz from a year ago, not current fat ass buzz, ick.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This thread has jumped the shark.

To get back on topic:

Buzz's former team's fans are probably a little unfair and too hard on him, but you will never convince them of that.

Buzz's current team's fans are encouraged by what they see.

Crean's former team's fans are probably a little unfair and too hard on him, but you will never convince them of that.

Crean's current team's fans are encouraged by the incoming recruits.

Can we agree on that?