Is Bates better than any of Shaka's signees?

[NolongerWarriors]

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

People lost their minds over guys that would have elicited a yawn if Wojo had recruited them.

[jesmu84]

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

People lost their minds over guys that would have elicited a yawn if Wojo had recruited them.

Why don't you like the Shaka hire?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

People lost their minds over guys that would have elicited a yawn if Wojo had recruited them.

Much like I'm eliciting a yawn over your post.

[JakeBarnes]

Is this the most sour grapes post that's ever been posted on scoop? Yes. And that takes a lot.

[#UnleashSean]

Is bates better then the rest of shaka recruits, possibly and a light probably.


However shakas recruits are better then 3 years of Bare CuPbOaRd.

[🏀]

Why don't you like the Shaka hire?

It’s a thinly veiled reason looking at post history.

[Tyler COLEk]

It’s a thinly veiled reason looking at post history.

Not sure there’s much of any veil.

[Stretchdeltsig]

He's not here. No further discussion.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Not sure there’s much of any veil.

It's more of a hood than a veil.

[🏀]

It's more of a hood than a veil.

A pointy hood.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

People lost their minds over guys that would have elicited a yawn if Wojo had recruited them.

Wojo never recruited pieces that completed a puzzle though...... he just had pieces

Welcome to Introductory Team Basketball!!!!  Please take your seat!

[MarquetteDano]

I really hope in a few years people are angrily comparing Shaka to Buzz.

[Skatastrophy]

I really hope in a few years people are angrily comparing Shaka to Buzz.

"God, he just can't get past the Elite 8 for some reason"

[The Lens]

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

People lost their minds over guys that would have elicited a yawn if Wojo had recruited them.

Shaka lost Wojo's top recruit, kept his 2nd and 3rd best recruits, added a few more and would you look at that...

OUR RANKING IMPROVED

Wojo's class was 21st
Shaka's class is 15th

[Galway Eagle]

Shaka lost Wojo's top recruit, kept his 2nd and 3rd best recruits, added a few more and would you look at that...

OUR RANKING IMPROVED

Wojo's class was 21st
Shaka's class is 15th

Because class ranking is done by overall sum of points. I don't know what the best way to do a class ranking is but in this system you could get 5 3-star recruits that'll be role players for 4 years and be higher than 2 1 and done level players.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Because class ranking is done by overall sum of points. I don't know what the best way to do a class ranking is but in this system you could get 5 3-star recruits that'll be role players for 4 years and be higher than 2 1 and done level players.

Not all rankings are done by a sum of points.  I can't speak to the one referenced above, though. 

[onepost]

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

People lost their minds over guys that would have elicited a yawn if Wojo had recruited them.

Who says Shaka wasn't more excited about a guy like Emarion Ellis and his upside than a Tamar Bates......

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Who says Shaka wasn't more excited about a guy like Emarion Ellis and his upside than a Tamar Bates......

Onepost may be on to something

[Herman Cain]

Tamar Bates has a degree of athleticism and shooting skills that make his probability of having an immediate impact as a freshman higher than average. No one is denying those attributes, which is why we all hoped Bates would come to MU.

However, Shaka has 5 promising freshman prospects , with a meaningful probability that one or two of them will be a "Diamond in The Rough". All 5 have high floors , so probability is good within 1-2 years they are important contributors once they make the transition from high school to college ball.

I am delighted with the 5 prospects we have.  Each fits a need we have  to compete in The Big East.

[CountryRoads]

I watched 2-3 of Bates full games and he’s definitely talented, but didn’t stick out in any of the ones I’ve seen. Granted, he was on a very good team but was only the 3rd option and just kind of blended in. Bates jump in the rankings (which I am assuming the OP is basing this off) from the 90s to the 50s likely was a result of his affiliation with IMG more than anything. We have multiple players signed already in his weight class, so I think it’s all just luck and other factors on who turns out better from this point.

Question:

Would we have been upset in 2013 if we missed out on JJJ (42) and instead got stuck with Zach LaVine (79)?

[Dawson Rental]

Original question: Is Bates better than ANY of Shaka’s signees?
Answer: Almost certainly.
Better question: Is Bates better than ALL of Shaka’s signees?
Answer: Almost certainly NOT.

Problem is OP posted remarks that seemed to suggest that he was asking the second question and the answer was yes.

It’s amazing how some posters think that games are not players taking the floor, but coaches taking the floor with cards listing their players HS rankings.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Original question: Is Bates better than ANY of Shaka’s signees?
Answer: Almost certainly.
Better question: Is Bates better than ALL of Shaka’s signees?
Answer: Almost certainly NOT.

Problem is OP posted remarks that seemed to suggest that he was asking the second question and the answer was yes.

It’s amazing how some posters think that games are not players taking the floor, but coaches taking the floor with cards listing their players HS rankings.

Bates may be better now but there's certainly no guarantee he ends up as the best of that group of players. 

[dgies9156]

As Mr. Wonderful would say,

"you are dead to me."

He turned us down. Move on.

As Al once said, "son we will win with you or without you..."

Like what we have and am confident we have a winner.

[NCMUFan]

Exactly, why judge before anyone takes the court and games are played.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

As Mr. Wonderful would say,

"you are dead to me."

He turned us down. Move on.

As Al once said, "son we will win with you or without you..."

Like what we have and am confident we have a winner.

Jeez. It’s just a kid choosing a college. I wish him well.

[Dawson Rental]

Bates may be better now but there's certainly no guarantee he ends up as the best of that group of players.

Yes!  Like I said, he's most likely better than at least one of Shaka's freshman recruits, but most likely won't be the best of the bunch, i.e. at least one of MU's five freshmen will have a better career than Bates.

[StillAWarrior]

Bates was a great recruit and will be solid at IU...possibly better than any of Marquette's recruits this season (and possibly not). So what? There was obviously something about Marquette that didn't appeal to him so he made a different choice. It stands to reason that the issue wasn't Shaka -- he's showed he was willing to commit to Shaka. The issue apparently was Marquette. Not every school or program is a good fit for every kid. Best of luck to him at IU. Next man up.

[shoothoops]

Jeez. It’s just a kid choosing a college. I wish him well.

Are you new here? 

(Good luck to Tamar)

[Pakuni]

Bates was a great recruit and will be solid at IU...possibly better than any of Marquette's recruits this season (and possibly not). So what? There was obviously something about Marquette that didn't appeal to him so he made a different choice. It stands to reason that the issue wasn't Shaka -- he's showed he was willing to commit to Shaka. The issue apparently was Marquette. Not every school or program is a good fit for every kid. Best of luck to him at IU. Next man up.

Or maybe it had nothing to do with Shaka or Marquette, and Woodson and staff just did a good job selling the kid on Indiana. The kid likely chose IU because he liked it best, not because he disliked Marquette.

[MU1980]

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

People lost their minds over guys that would have elicited a yawn if Wojo had recruited them.

Is NolongerWarriors the most angry, clueless, and judgmental poster in regards to the hiring of Shaka Smart?

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

There are a few others that aren't fully on board with the Shaka hire and that is certainly their right to have that opinion, but Nolongerwarriors is obsessed with trying to find anything and everything that he can to try and discredit this hire. From the start I wanted Shaka over Moser, but if they had hired Moser, a proven coach like Shaka, I would have sat back and watched what he did the first few weeks and if it was anything like Shaka has done, I would certainly have been more excited about the hire and definitely would not keep posting irrelevant posts trying to tear down our new coach, who is not going anywhere anytime soon.

[StillAWarrior]

Or maybe it had nothing to do with Shaka or Marquette, and Woodson and staff just did a good job selling the kid on Indiana. The kid likely chose IU because he liked it best, not because he disliked Marquette.

I didn't necessarily intend to imply that he didn't like Marquette -- just that it didn't appeal as much as IU. But I can certainly see how my words could be interpreted that way -- not very well stated by me.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Bates at ESPN #23.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Marquette was certainly the odd school out on his final lists.

Texas, Indiana, and Kansas are all massive public schools, Marquette certainly is not that.

[CountryRoads]

Anyone know the deal with Foster? ESPN rankings are junk compared to 247, but pretty crazy to see 2 Milwaukee kids in the top 10.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Anyone know the deal with Foster? ESPN rankings are junk compared to 247, but pretty crazy to see 2 Milwaukee kids in the top 10.

Most signs point to him joining the G-League prospect team.  Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga both went this route and are projected top 5 picks.  The other guys in the program are lower prospects.

[Warrior Code]

I watched 2-3 of Bates full games and he’s definitely talented, but didn’t stick out in any of the ones I’ve seen. Granted, he was on a very good team but was only the 3rd option and just kind of blended in. Bates jump in the rankings (which I am assuming the OP is basing this off) from the 90s to the 50s likely was a result of his affiliation with IMG more than anything. We have multiple players signed already in his weight class, so I think it’s all just luck and other factors on who turns out better from this point.

Question:

Would we have been upset in 2013 if we missed out on JJJ (42) and instead got stuck with Zach LaVine (79)?

I'd wager there would have been a grumble or two on this site

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I'd wager there would have been a grumble or two on this site

Of course.  People were bummed when Tyshawn Taylor decomitted and went to Kansas.  Buzz brought in a lesser known JUCO that received little fanfare. A less talented teammate of Buzz's other JUCO recruit. After midnight madness, many message board posters called the player a wasted scholarship.

That player worked hard and became a pretty good player.  His name is Jimmy Butler.

[NolongerWarriors]

Bates at ESPN #23.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings

#23, huh?

Where do Shaka's recruits to MU that everyone is drooling over rank?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

#23, huh?

Where do Shaka's recruits to MU that everyone is drooling over rank?

Go cheer for Bucky

[Billy Hoyle]

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

People lost their minds over guys that would have elicited a yawn if Wojo had recruited them.

Maybe. Maybe not. Let's see how they all perform on the court first. 

I had plenty of Michigan State friends who wished they'd gotten Dameon Mason instead of Shannon Brown. How did that work out?

How many of these guys would you have taken over Dwyane Wade back in 2000? Neil Fingleton? Scooter Sherrill? Jerome Harper? Brian Boddicker? Andre Barrett?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_McDonald%27s_All-American_Boys_Game

[thebigjake]

I don't understand the point of this entire thread.

[MUCam]

I don't understand the point of this entire thread.

Then you most certainly must not understand the point of Mu Scoop, where the point of everything is the pointless.

[tower912]

The point is that nlw is a pud.

  Eventually the honeymoon phase will end and the new car smell will fade.   And after the revolving door stops spinning and the roster is set, a discussion of the strengths and weaknesses of the players and coach will certainly happen.   

This guy choosing this tactic can only end poorly.

[JWags85]

How many of these guys would you have taken over Dwyane Wade back in 2000? Neil Fingleton? Scooter Sherrill? Jerome Harper? Brian Boddicker? Andre Barrett?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_McDonald%27s_All-American_Boys_Game

As of writing this, MUBB currently has zero alums who starred as giants in Game of Thrones.  We got the short end of the stick with Wade if we could have had Mag the Mighty at center

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I don't understand the point of this entire thread.

Executive Summary: A thread to allow a poster to crap on a coach whose politics he dislikes.

[Billy Hoyle]

As of writing this, MUBB currently has zero alums who starred as giants in Game of Thrones.  We got the short end of the stick with Wade if we could have had Mag the Mighty at center

we did have Chris Farley. Thought nlw would have probably complained that we lost John Belushi to SIU since Farley wasn't even on the comedy rankings coming out of HS.

[JakeBarnes]

#23, huh?

Where do Shaka's recruits to MU that everyone is drooling over rank?

[mujivitz06]

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

People lost their minds over guys that would have elicited a yawn if Wojo had recruited them.

Are any of your posts better than any clown at the circus?

No, and it's not particularly close.

[muwarrior97]

What I've learned watching this board and the team over last TEN years, the recruiting rankings don't mean diddly squat

Who cares!!   

[avid1010]

#23, huh?

Where do Shaka's recruits to MU that everyone is drooling over rank?

Did Wojo make it to 8 NCAA's in 11 years of coaching with a FF to boot?  Why hasn't Wojo been hired yet?   In essentially 5 years at Texas Shaka made the NCAA 3x, won the NIT, and had one very poor season.  In 6 years at VCU he went to the NCAA 5 times.  Nearly everyone is pleased with Shaka thus far...but he'll obviously need to win.  Would you rather MU stayed with Wojo or were you a Moser guy? 

[f/k/a humanlung]

#23, huh?

Where do Shaka's recruits to MU that everyone is drooling over rank?

Look Coach Wojo, we know you have a lot of free time on your hands right now but I think your time would be better spent looking for a job.

[Scoop Snoop]

Is NolongerWarriors the most angry, clueless, and judgmental poster in regards to the hiring of Shaka Smart?

Yes, and it isn't particularly close.

There are a few others that aren't fully on board with the Shaka hire and that is certainly their right to have that opinion, but Nolongerwarriors is obsessed with trying to find anything and everything that he can to try and discredit this hire. From the start I wanted Shaka over Moser, but if they had hired Moser, a proven coach like Shaka, I would have sat back and watched what he did the first few weeks and if it was anything like Shaka has done, I would certainly have been more excited about the hire and definitely would not keep posting irrelevant posts trying to tear down our new coach, who is not going anywhere anytime soon.

If Garcia decides to transfer, we will look back at his ranting about Bates and his anti Shaka hatred and say "and we thought he couldn't possibly get any worse." What he's writing now will be considered tame in comparison.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

If Garcia decides to transfer, we will look back at his ranting about Bates and his anti Shaka hatred and say "and we thought he couldn't possibly get any worse." What he's writing now will be considered tame in comparison if Garcia does not come back.

In all likelihood, Garcia's impact on MU basketball overall will be quite limited to begin with.  He's likely gone after next year - and this team, if it comes together in February, will likely be NIT bound.  Garcia will be an afterthought 10 years down the line....maybe even 5 if his NBA career doesn't pan out.  Chris Crawford will have been the better forward after it's all said and done. 

[Skatastrophy]

What I've learned watching this board and the team over last TEN years, the recruiting rankings don't mean diddly squat

Who cares!!   

There's literally nothing else to discuss in the offseason, so we pour over recruiting rankings and too-early brackets.

[cheebs09]

There's literally nothing else to discuss in the offseason, so we pour over recruiting rankings and too-early brackets.

Well, that and making sure nothing has changed with the Warrior nickname and bringing back football. Sometimes we even throw in closing Wisconsin Ave and bringing back the medical school if we feel spicy.

[Pakuni]

Well, that and making sure nothing has changed with the Warrior nickname and bringing back football. Sometimes we even throw in closing Wisconsin Ave and bringing back the medical school if we feel spicy.

Sadly, Fiserve has killed the ability of some to wax poetic about a return to the Mecca and/or building an on-campus arena.

[NickelDimer]

Look Coach Wojo, we know you have a lot of free time on your hands right now but I think your time would be better spent looking for a job.

He goes by Steve atm

[MU82]

MD-

If Garcia improves as much as many players do from their freshman to sophomore seasons, and if DJ and JL also get better, and if a couple of the newcomers can perform at the level Markus and Sam did as role-playing freshmen, we can be an NCAA tourney team.

Lots of “ifs” for sure - including if DG even comes back - but none that are outrageous, “oh that could never ever happen” ifs.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

MD-

If Garcia improves as much as many players do from their freshman to sophomore seasons, and if DJ and JL also get better, and if a couple of the newcomers can perform at the level Markus and Sam did as role-playing freshmen, we can be an NCAA tourney team.

Lots of “ifs” for sure - including if DG even comes back - but none that are outrageous, “oh that could never ever happen” ifs.

If MU is going to be an NCAA tourney team, then there will be a true PG on the court that is controlling the tempo, driving, and creating for DC, DG, JL.  Point Guard is the most important position for MU right now because it has the opportunity to turn last year's weaknesses into strengths by bringing stability to the offense.  That alone is worth the most increase in # of Wins and opens up the offense much more to get better looks and decreases the turnover %.   Otherwise, MU was stifled a lot last year on offense as they didn't have a true PG able to control tempo, limit mistakes, and create for others off the dribble.   The shocker is that we never we really had a true PG while Wojo himself was one during his playing days.  That's the most baffling thing about his coaching/recruiting.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Very unlikely but possible:

Garcia comes back and Morsell transfers in....

Who doesn't expect a decent chance at a tourney birth?

[MU82]

If MU is going to be an NCAA tourney team, then there will be a true PG on the court that is controlling the tempo, driving, and creating for DC, DG, JL.  Point Guard is the most important position for MU right now because it has the opportunity to turn last year's weaknesses into strengths by bringing stability to the offense.  That alone is worth the most increase in # of Wins and opens up the offense much more to get better looks and decreases the turnover %.   Otherwise, MU was stifled a lot last year on offense as they didn't have a true PG able to control tempo, limit mistakes, and create for others off the dribble.   The shocker is that we never we really had a true PG while Wojo himself was one during his playing days.  That's the most baffling thing about his coaching/recruiting.

Generally, I'm with you. Here's hoping Mitchell steps up, or DJ takes care of the ball or someone else takes charge.

Curious: What did you think of Junior as a PG? Good enough to start for E8 and S16 teams, yet a lot of Scoopers sure were on his case.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yeah I don't think you need a "true PG."  You just need a better DJ.  And I think he will be.

[bilsu]

Generally, I'm with you. Here's hoping Mitchell steps up, or DJ takes care of the ball or someone else takes charge.

Curious: What did you think of Junior as a PG? Good enough to start for E8 and S16 teams, yet a lot of Scoopers sure were on his case.

MUscoopers were very hard on Junior, but his teams won a lot of games and won in NCAA tournament. The teams would of been better with a better point guard and they would of been better with a center with two eyes, but the teams were pretty good.

[Badgerhater]

MUscoopers were very hard on Junior, but his teams won a lot of games and won in NCAA tournament. The teams would of been better with a better point guard and they would of been better with a center with two eyes, but the teams were pretty good.

I always liked Junior.  He knew his limitations and knew how to run the offense.  We were spoiled by the run of Henry, Diener and James, which diminished Junior in the eyes of some.  He could put the team on his back and make things happen—One could not rely on this happening or even expect it, but there were several key wins on the way to the BE title that were engineered by Junior.

Junior was a warrior who quietly made teams better.   

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Generally, I'm with you. Here's hoping Mitchell steps up, or DJ takes care of the ball or someone else takes charge.

Curious: What did you think of Junior as a PG? Good enough to start for E8 and S16 teams, yet a lot of Scoopers sure were on his case.

JC played within himself and did what was asked of him which is fine.  That achilles injury set him back from having a much better career at MU.  If JC doesn't have the injury, he's quicker and could have done more on offense/defense. 

[MU82]

JC played within himself and did what was asked of him which is fine.  That achilles injury set him back from having a much better career at MU.  If JC doesn't have the injury, he's quicker and could have done more on offense/defense.

We didn't have the quicker JC. We had the "fine" JC. Which, I agree, was fine for that team. Junior's 3 against UConn was arguably the most important shot of that Big East championship season until Vander's drives against St. John's and Davidson, so I'll always have fond memories of his time at MU.

I have come to believe that Cadougan-as-a-senior should be the absolute floor for the level of PG play a program like Marquette should ever field..

Whether DJ plays mostly on or off the ball, I have high hopes for him next season --  playing his second full season of college ball, surrounded by better (albeit younger) players, and coached by Shaka and his assistants. I think he will be far better than JC ever was, and quite likely better than Vander, too.