Can Wojo finally...

[Floorslapper]

I just wanted to say Wojo's done a helluva job this year.  The cupboard is practically bare, given that there are only two top 100 players on the roster. Yet Wojo has this group right in the bubble mix.

Wojo has also done a great job coaching up those two top 100 players. After all, Howard was ranked lower than Johnson, Wilson, and Burton. Hauser ranked lower than Cohen, Anderson, Jones, and Williams.  But in just two years, Wojo turned Howard into a 2nd team all-conference performer and Hauser is very good as well.

The growth Wojo has shown as a coach is tremendous.  Year 1, the cupboard was overflowing with talent and MU went 13-19, 4-14 in BE.  But now, with barely any talent on the roster, 18-12, 9-9 BE, and in the tourney mix.  This upward trend has me really excited. Imagine the results once Wojo can restock the cupboard!

Good effort.  No doubt it was brilliant coaching to start Sandy Cohen Game 1 of his career ahead of Deonte Burton, and Derrick Wilson at PG for 35 minutes instead of Duane (or Carlino).  Surefire way to coach your way to a 4-14 campaign in your inaugural season as a head coach.


Genius in fact, to set the bar so low Year 1, that we are now to be thrilled in Year 4 by having this group "right in the bubble mix."  Guess I just had higher expectations for Wojo, given his Coach K pedigree, and watching all of O'Neill, Deane, Crean and Buzz achieve more success in 4-years.

[Its DJOver]

People complain that Markus can't be a PG becasue he doesn't pass, but think Carlino could run point?  He would get the inbounds pass dribble up the court and launch.  We would end the season with zero paint touches and zero assists. 

[tower912]

I've been down this rabbit hole too often.    Profile/buddies-ignore list/add to ignore list.   Done.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I can't wait until next to compare Wojo year 5 vs Crean's year 5.  In two years, it'll be Wojo year 6 vs TC year 6 vs Buzz year 6.

[brewcity77]

I just wanted to say Wojo's done a helluva job this year.  The cupboard is practically bare, given that there are only two top 100 players on the roster. Yet Wojo has this group right in the bubble mix.

Wojo has also done a great job coaching up those two top 100 players. After all, Howard was ranked lower than Johnson, Wilson, and Burton. Hauser ranked lower than Cohen, Anderson, Jones, and Williams.  But in just two years, Wojo turned Howard into a 2nd team all-conference performer and Hauser is very good as well.

The growth Wojo has shown as a coach is tremendous.  Year 1, the cupboard was overflowing with talent and MU went 13-19, 4-14 in BE.  But now, with barely any talent on the roster, 18-12, 9-9 BE, and in the tourney mix.  This upward trend has me really excited. Imagine the results once Wojo can restock the cupboard!

Post of the season. Shut Scoop down, Lazar's just cut down the nets.

[LloydsLegs]

I've been down this rabbit hole too often.    Profile/buddies-ignore list/add to ignore list.   Done.

Doesn't work; quoted too many times.

[Floorslapper]

I've been down this rabbit hole too often.    Profile/buddies-ignore list/add to ignore list.   Done.

Might want to change your signature.  Nothing "Warrior" about being so thin skinned you can't handle a dissenting point of view.  I'll continue to at times to enjoy reading your takes, while at times disagreeing.  This is a message board comprised of opinions, after all.

[real chili 83]

Doesn't work; quoted too many times.

It sure does help, though.

[tower912]

Doesn't work; quoted too many times.

Doesn't hurt. 

[mu03eng]

Might want to change your signature.  Nothing "Warrior" about being so thin skinned you can't handle a dissenting point of view.  I'll continue to at times to enjoy reading your takes, while at times disagreeing.  This is a message board comprised of opinions, after all.

If by dissenting point of view you mean "continuously debunked junk science basketball opinion predicated on entirely made-up metrics and excessive goal post shifting" than you are right neither Tower nor most people on this board can handle that point of view.

[skianth16]

If by dissenting point of view you mean "continuously debunked junk science basketball opinion predicated on entirely made-up metrics and excessive goal post shifting" than you are right neither Tower nor most people on this board can handle that point of view.

I, for one, don't get how worked up about 6 people get over this. I would assume most people could not care less. Which is why only a small handful bring this up ad nauseum while the rest just read and move on.

[Floorslapper]

If by dissenting point of view you mean "continuously debunked junk science basketball opinion predicated on entirely made-up metrics and excessive goal post shifting" than you are right neither Tower nor most people on this board can handle that point of view.

You are welcome to your opinion.  I support my positions with KenPom stats.  Always.  But yes, I do not look at 4 possessions of zone sprinkled into a 70 possession game, or for example, four separate, two minute segments of PT, as being relevant sample sizes to assess a player or basketball strategy's effectiveness.  Call that "junk science basketball," if you like.


End of the day the "most people" on the board you reference are about the same 8 posters...who feel Wojo is above reproach on ANY matter.

[GGGG]

I, for one, don't get how worked up about 6 people get over this. I would assume most people could not care less. Which is why only a small handful bring this up ad nauseum while the rest just read and move on.

That's just because you're a better person than most of us.  We aspire to be you.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Oh good...this stupid ass debate yet again.  Might as well just have at it and get yet another banning over with.

+1,000.  Same stupid endless argument.

[skianth16]

That's just because you're a better person than most of us.  We aspire to be you.

[mu03eng]

You are welcome to your opinion.  I support my positions with KenPom stats.  Always.  But yes, I do not look at 4 possessions of zone sprinkled into a 70 possession game, or for example, four separate, two minute segments of PT, as being relevant sample sizes to assess a player or basketball strategy's effectiveness.  Call that "junk science basketball," if you like.


End of the day the "most people" on the board you reference are about the same 8 posters...who feel Wojo is above reproach on ANY matter.

My bad, I didn't look hard enough for the 3 game winning streak metric on KenPom

[muwarrior69]

Post of the season. Shut Scoop down, Lazar's just cut down the nets.

Absolutely agree. After all we are naming and criticizing MU students on a "blog".

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You are welcome to your opinion.  I support my positions with KenPom stats.  Always.  But yes, I do not look at 4 possessions of zone sprinkled into a 70 possession game, or for example, four separate, two minute segments of PT, as being relevant sample sizes to assess a player or basketball strategy's effectiveness.  Call that "junk science basketball," if you like.


End of the day the "most people" on the board you reference are about the same 8 posters...who feel Wojo is above reproach on ANY matter.

It's not just 4 possessions of zone in a 70 possession game. He has seen his team play hundreds of thousands of possessions of zone and M2M in practice. He knows which defense his team is better at. Sometimes the match-up will call for a different look from defense and he will try it in a game.  If it works he will stick with it,  if it doesn't he will adjust.

I understand some coaches are ride or die with one defensive strategy. It doesn't matter if they are getting shredded,  they will stick with their base defense throughout a game. I prefer coaches who make adjustments but there have been many successful ones that stick to one defense. I don't know any coach that is ride or die with their second best defense.

And Wojo is not beyond reproach. I have detailed many things I don't agree with or don't understandthat he has done. If I had to grade hison the court performance id give him a solid C.  Hell,  I agree with you about not maximizing the midgets together. I just don't think zone defense is one of those things.

It's not that you have a different opinion. It's not that you criticize Wojo. It's that you honest to goodness believe that you "see the game better" then a man who has been doing this job for 20+ years. It's one thing to disagree with an expert in the field,  it's another to claim you're a bigger expert when you have no background or experience to back that up.

[Galway Eagle]

It's not just 4 possessions of zone in a 70 possession game. He has seen his team play hundreds of thousands of possessions of zone and M2M in practice. He knows which defense his team is better at. Sometimes the match-up will call for a different look from defense and he will try it in a game.  If it works he will stick with it,  if it doesn't he will adjust.

I understand some coaches are ride or die with one defensive strategy. It doesn't matter if they are getting shredded,  they will stick with their base defense throughout a game. I prefer coaches who make adjustments but there have been many successful ones that stick to one defense. I don't know any coach that is ride or die with their second best defense.

And Wojo is not beyond reproach. I have detailed many things I don't agree with or don't understandthat he has done. If I had to grade hison the court performance id give him a solid C.  Hell,  I agree with you about not maximizing the midgets together. I just don't think zone defense is one of those things.

It's not that you have a different opinion. It's not that you criticize Wojo. It's that you honest to goodness believe that you "see the game better" then a man who has been doing this job for 20+ years. It's one thing to disagree with an expert in the field,  it's another to claim you're a bigger expert when you have no background or experience to back that up.

Are you forgetting the dunk heard round the world?

[Floorslapper]

It's not just 4 possessions of zone in a 70 possession game. He has seen his team play hundreds of thousands of possessions of zone and M2M in practice. He knows which defense his team is better at. Sometimes the match-up will call for a different look from defense and he will try it in a game.  If it works he will stick with it,  if it doesn't he will adjust.

I understand some coaches are ride or die with one defensive strategy. It doesn't matter if they are getting shredded,  they will stick with their base defense throughout a game. I prefer coaches who make adjustments but there have been many successful ones that stick to one defense. I don't know any coach that is ride or die with their second best defense.

And Wojo is not beyond reproach. I have detailed many things I don't agree with or don't understandthat he has done. If I had to grade hison the court performance id give him a solid C.  Hell,  I agree with you about not maximizing the midgets together. I just don't think zone defense is one of those things.

It's not that you have a different opinion. It's not that you criticize Wojo. It's that you honest to goodness believe that you "see the game better" then a man who has been doing this job for 20+ years. It's one thing to disagree with an expert in the field,  it's another to claim you're a bigger expert when you have no background or experience to back that up.

I highly doubt Wojo has seen his team play zone defense hundreds of thousands of times in practice.  In fact, I'd estimate he's spent less than 10% of his defensive practice time on zone.  It would be foolish to spend 50% of your time practicing a defense that you only use 5% of the time.

I'm not claiming to be a bigger expert than Wojo.  Have never said that.  I do have real concerns about some of his in-game coaching and playing time decisions.  I keep harping on the Burton/Cohen thing, because how anybody in their right mind could think Cohen was a better player Day 1 on campus at MU than was Burton, coming off an All Big East Freshman campaign - just baffling.

I was glad to see Wojo use Cain A LOT more against Creighton.  In fact I posted about it at halftime of that game - wanted to see a lot more Cain/Theo, than we saw in first half (regardless of what defense we were playing.)  That was a good adjustment.  Cain is a huge X-factor for this team.  He alone can make the team markedly better on the defensive end/d-rebounding.

I stand by the assertion, that when you are physically outmatched in terms of size, strength, speed - zone is a better defensive approach.

[MU82]

I just wanted to say Wojo's done a helluva job this year.  The cupboard is practically bare, given that there are only two top 100 players on the roster. Yet Wojo has this group right in the bubble mix.

Wojo has also done a great job coaching up those two top 100 players. After all, Howard was ranked lower than Johnson, Wilson, and Burton. Hauser ranked lower than Cohen, Anderson, Jones, and Williams.  But in just two years, Wojo turned Howard into a 2nd team all-conference performer and Hauser is very good as well.

The growth Wojo has shown as a coach is tremendous.  Year 1, the cupboard was overflowing with talent and MU went 13-19, 4-14 in BE.  But now, with barely any talent on the roster, 18-12, 9-9 BE, and in the tourney mix.  This upward trend has me really excited. Imagine the results once Wojo can restock the cupboard!

A rare post that literally made me laugh out loud. Drop the mic, Lazar!

Now, as to the 3-game conference win streak thing that a few are fixated on ...

Sure, I understand it's one of many signs of consistency, but it really doesn't "mean" much. The fact that DePaul has had a 3-game winning streak shows it's neither a guarantee of success nor a sign of it.

Wojo has had several 4-1 stretches, including two last season that got us into the NCAA tournament. Would some folks here rather him have gone 3-2 during those stretches as long as the 3 came in a row? How dopey.

To think that a win Wednesday would lift this "monkey" off Wojo's back ...

If there's an alleged monkey on somebody's back but nobody knows it exists, is there really a monkey there?

I'm pretty happy to "settle for" this season's 6-1 streak that included wins over Vermont, Wisconsin, NIU and American to close out the NC schedule, a tough 4-point loss to X, and then wins over GT and at Providence ... although that conclusively means Wojo is a failure on the 3 Game Monkey Meter.

And of course the other thing wrong with this thread is it inspired the latest box set of Ners' Worstest Hits.

Mommy, make it stop!

[Hubert Davis]

Just win, baby!

BEAT DEPAUL

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I highly doubt Wojo has seen his team play zone defense hundreds of thousands of times in practice.  In fact, I'd estimate he's spent less than 10% of his defensive practice time on zone.  It would be foolish to spend 50% of your time practicing a defense that you only use 5% of the time.

I'm not claiming to be a bigger expert than Wojo.  Have never said that.  I do have real concerns about some of his in-game coaching and playing time decisions.  I keep harping on the Burton/Cohen thing, because how anybody in their right mind could think Cohen was a better player Day 1 on campus at MU than was Burton, coming off an All Big East Freshman campaign - just baffling.

I was glad to see Wojo use Cain A LOT more against Creighton.  In fact I posted about it at halftime of that game - wanted to see a lot more Cain/Theo, than we saw in first half (regardless of what defense we were playing.)  That was a good adjustment.  Cain is a huge X-factor for this team.  He alone can make the team markedly better on the defensive end/d-rebounding.

I stand by the assertion, that when you are physically outmatched in terms of size, strength, speed - zone is a better defensive approach.

Definitely a reasonable response. You are right the team spends most of their time practicing M2M but even spending less than 10% of practice time in a zone defense translates to thousands of possessions over the course of a full year.

On the Burton/Cohen thing, I think that has been vastly overplayed. Sandy played more minutes than Burton in exactly two games, the first two of the season. In those two games Sandy averaged 8.5 ppg, 3 rpg, 2 apg and was shooting an eFG% of 80%. Deonte on the other hand averaged, 6 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 0.0 apg, and was shooting an eFG% of 44.4%. Deonte was also limited by foul trouble in one of those games. Sandy had two good games and Deonte had one bad game and a game limited by foul trouble so Sandy got more minutes. I don't have the data in front of me, but memory tells me that Sandy was playing better D then Deonte. After that, Burton played more minutes in each of the six remaining games. As has been established, Wojo likes to ride the hot hand....just like he did with Cain against Creighton.

Your assertion on the zone is sound. Maybe if Wojo had taught it and practiced it as the base defense from Day 1, we would be a better defensive team. Could be, I have no idea. But the team right now is better at M2M.

[Its DJOver]

Starting no matta. Jae (Big East Player of the Year) would regularly come in off the bench because he had a habit of picking up a foul within 90 seconds of a game.  Look at total minutes, and who is playing in crunch time.

[GGGG]

Just so you guys realize, Ners regularly retroactively applies data to fit his narrative.  Just like the "hasn't won three BE games in a row" line he's been using.  He never brought this up once until he saw it here (or on Twitter.)  Now it's a big talking point.

So he has to bring up "starting" because if he uses "total minutes" it defeats the purpose.