Allen Edmonds quality decline

[PorkysButthole]

Is it me or has the quality of Allen Edmonds gone downhill over the last four to five years?  I know it's a WI based company who's CEO used to be a Marquette alum, but I think they sold out to a PE firm a few years ago and although they still manufacture in WI as far as I know, they seem to be cutting corners.  I want to buy American but Aldens are a way too expensive alternative.  Any insight on AE's issues?  I live in the  Northeast, otherwise known as Alden territory to Goodyear welted shoe enthusiasts, but personally have always preferred AE's.....until recently.

[wadesworld]

Buy Florsheim.  Or Stacy Adams.

[Tortuga94]

I used to buy Allen Edmonds and don't really have any complaints, but I bought a pair of Johnston & Murphy shoes and liked theirs better. They are the most comfortable shoes, I 've been solely buying theirs for the last few years. I believe they are still made in the USA.

https://www.johnstonmurphy.com/na-ourstory.html

[Chili]

Johnston & Murphy or Cole Hahn. Or get a good pair of Redwing Boots - will last a lifetime.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Dress shoes are becoming a commodity like everything else.

[Goose]

My family was in the leather/shoe business for many, many years and always felt AE were highly overrated. That said, I find the vast majority of brands to lack the keen attention to detail. Cole Haan has sunk to low levels, IMO. Of the brands noted in this post, Red Wing is still in an elite class.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Recently, Allen Edmonds has been sold a few times.

First in 2013
http://archive.jsonline.com/business/allen-edmonds-sold-headquarters-to-stay-in-port-washington-b99135030z1-230562761.html/

And again in 2016
http://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2016/12/13/allen-edmonds-sold-st-louis-based-caleres/95398682/

I believe the quality is still pretty good for the price point. It is definitely superior to Cole Haan and Johnston & Murphy. Take advantage of the promotions and sales to get the best value. If you're looking to stay with Made in USA AE & Alden are your best bets.

Sid Mashburn has nice quality shoes (Made in UK), Goodyear welt. Available online and store locations in Atlanta, Houston, DC (maybe another?).

If you're looking for higher quality and price point (but not crazy expensive), check out Carmina. Made in Spain, Goodyear welt,  quality leather and craftsmanship. Distribution is limited in the US with an online store, The Armoury (not sure about other stockists). Recently, just opened their first U.S. location in NYC.

[Herman Cain]

Buy Florsheim.  Or Stacy Adams.

Stacy Adams the porn star is in the shoe business?

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Stacy Adams the porn star is in the shoe business?

You should see how she shines your shoes.

[Goose]

Lenny

No go on Florsheim or Stacy Adams for this guy. You really need to spend money to get quality footwear today. It is one item that I check quality first and then price. Quality footwear lasts a long time.

[warriorchick]

Lenny

No go on Florsheim or Stacy Adams for this guy. You really need to spend money to get quality footwear today. It is one item that I check quality first and then price. Quality footwear lasts a long time.

Do you have a statue of St. Hubbins on your mantel? 

[PBRme]

I think San Antonio Shoemakers makes some shoes in the US as well.  No as suit coat dressy but business casual

[PorkysButthole]

Recently, Allen Edmonds has been sold a few times.

First in 2013
http://archive.jsonline.com/business/allen-edmonds-sold-headquarters-to-stay-in-port-washington-b99135030z1-230562761.html/

And again in 2016
http://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2016/12/13/allen-edmonds-sold-st-louis-based-caleres/95398682/

I believe the quality is still pretty good for the price point. It is definitely superior to Cole Haan and Johnston & Murphy. Take advantage of the promotions and sales to get the best value. If you're looking to stay with Made in USA AE & Alden are your best bets.

Sid Mashburn has nice quality shoes (Made in UK), Goodyear welt. Available online and store locations in Atlanta, Houston, DC (maybe another?).

If you're looking for higher quality and price point (but not crazy expensive), check out Carmina. Made in Spain, Goodyear welt,  quality leather and craftsmanship. Distribution is limited in the US with an online store, The Armoury (not sure about other stockists). Recently, just opened their first U.S. location in NYC.

Thanks for these tips Blue Horseshoe.   I work in NYC  and will definitely check out the Armoury.  Also travel to ATL quite often and have been to Sid Mashburn a few times but never thought about them for shoes.  Going down there again the week before turkey day and will try to stop by if I have time.  Thanks again!

[real chili 83]

I picked up a few pair while traveling through Port this summer. Hit the tent sale, plus at the outlet store. Got 40% off.. Great buy at that price.  Still really good shoes.

[GooooMarquette]

I have two pairs that I've owned for several years, each of which has been fully redrafted a couple of times.  Great program.

Haven't gotten any recently, and now that I work mostly from home, I may never need to buy formal dress shoes again.

[rocket surgeon]

How does bass fit into this category?  For the price point, I think they made a great shoe.  I don’t know about their selections for the suit and briefcase guy however. 

    I had a pair of leather clog-like style that held up for years, then used them as a beat around shoe for a number of years.  My wife threw them out, I pick them out the garbage and wore for another year or so, then when I saw them in the garbage a 2nd time I just gave up.  So they went from office/clinical to everyday kinda casual to mowing the lawn, to gardening, to...finally the soles were cracking in half.  I’ll bet they were 10-12 everyday use old

[Goose]

rocket

Bass is good shoe for the price. Again, the shift to Asian manufacturing affected quality to some degree. Footwear has in process of moving production again, out of China to cheaper countries. The Chinese were getting close to make decent shoes and now production headed to Vietnam and other locations. Pretty sad, but I miss the days of shoes made in China.

[Blue Horseshoe]

I work in NYC  and will definitely check out the Armoury.  Also travel to ATL quite often and have been to Sid Mashburn a few times but never thought about them for shoes.  Going down there again the week before turkey day and will try to stop by if I have time.  Thanks again!

Depending on where your office is located, the Armoury is downtown (Tribeca) and the new Carmina store is in midtown by Grand Central.

Another thing to remember is that Sid Mashburn and other high end retailers usually have seasonal sale twice a year (most often June & December). Sometimes stores and brands will run friends & family and other promotions. Sales associates at Sid Mashburn do not work on commission. When you go back to the store definitely try on some shoes/clothes for sizes and get the associate's card to follow up for sale. Don't be a jag and try tons of stuff. It is the worst to waste someone's time. Set reasonable expectations if you are a common size or extreme size that it may be feast or famine.

Speaking of which, NYC is the mecca of sample sales. Follow ChichmiNYC, thechoosybeggar, and 260samplesale on Instagram (and check their websites) for info. They are lot of hit or miss, but discipline goes a long way. Bottega Veneta, Paul Smith, Canali, Loro Piana, Kiton and others usually have at least 1 per year. The first day is for the best selection and the last day is for the best discount/value.

[manny31]

On a some what related topic....What about men’s suits? I need to buy a couple and I don’t want to break the bank I also don’t want to look like a schmada either. I wear suits 3-4 days a week so they will be worn often. Also any thoughts on Super 110’s vs 120’s vs 130’s etc. As I understand it the lower the number the more durable. Additionally I think you need to balance durability vs wearing a wool sack. Thanks everyone.

[Blue Horseshoe]

On a some what related topic....What about men’s suits? I need to buy a couple and I don’t want to break the bank I also don’t want to look like a schmada either. I wear suits 3-4 days a week so they will be worn often. Also any thoughts on Super 110’s vs 120’s vs 130’s etc. As I understand it the lower the number the more durable. Additionally I think you need to balance durability vs wearing a wool sack.

The super xyz number system is one factor to consider when purchasing a suit or sport coat but not the end all be all. Rotation and maintenance is the best way to extend the life of any garment. Start by not beating your clothes to hell, take it easy on the dry cleaning, use a wooden hanger with wide rounded shoulders for support & maintaining the integrity/shape. Full canvas suits are superior to fused. Technology has improved to the point where most entry level are now half canvas (aka part canvas and part fused). Just because something is excellent quality doesn't mean you should buy it.

A $3K suit is worthless if it does not fit. The shoulders are most important and absolutely, no excuses, must fit. It is a dangerous game to attempt to alter them. An endless cycle that only results in a disappointing look. A good tailor is your best friend, so find one. Minor alterations like adjusting sleeve length, taking in seams, and lowering the collar aren't overly expensive and make a huge difference.

Similar to shoes, pay attention to sale schedules.

Price points:
Entry Level: J Crew, SuitSupply, Club Monaco, Bonobos, Gant, Reiss, etc.

Mid Level (starting to get full canvas): Paul Smith, Brooks Brothers, Canali, Burberry, Boglioli, etc.

Lux: Ermenegildo Zegna, Etro, Louis Vuitton, Isaia, Gucci, Prada, Brioni, Berluti, Loro Piana, Tom Ford etc.

[Chili]

On a some what related topic....What about men’s suits? I need to buy a couple and I don’t want to break the bank I also don’t want to look like a schmada either. I wear suits 3-4 days a week so they will be worn often. Also any thoughts on Super 110’s vs 120’s vs 130’s etc. As I understand it the lower the number the more durable. Additionally I think you need to balance durability vs wearing a wool sack. Thanks everyone.

Find a good tailor and go custom. If you buy a few suits, jackets, shirts they'll usually have a bundle rate for you. Or if you really want to do it well fly to Shanghai, Seoul or a few other cities in Asia and get them. Not joking. Find a good biz class flight and head over for 2 days. You can come home with a new wardrobe for less than a few custom suits in the us.

[Benny B]

Is it me or has the quality of Allen Edmonds gone downhill over the last four to five years?

Can you cite some sort of example?  I've been wearing AE's exclusively for nearly a decade, and I have seen no downward trend in quality. 

Find a good tailor and go custom. If you buy a few suits, jackets, shirts they'll usually have a bundle rate for you. Or if you really want to do it well fly to Shanghai, Seoul or a few other cities in Asia and get them. Not joking. Find a good biz class flight and head over for 2 days. You can come home with a new wardrobe for less than a few custom suits in the us.

This.  Better yet, find an Asian tailor who visits the U.S.  Our office has a tailor that comes in from HK twice a year, October and April... he makes stops in 7-8 cities (usually SF, LA, DFW, Chicago and NYC plus 2-3 other cities like Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, DC, etc.) over a 30-day period that keeps his shop busy for the next 6 months.  Granted, prices are a bit more than if you walked in off the street in Shanghai, and sure, you're better off financially flying to Asia if you're turning over your entire wardrobe, but if you're building your wardrobe over time and want access to the latest patterns/styles and wools every six months, it can't be beat.  If you're in Chicago area (or any of the above cities) and want a referral, PM me and I'll send you his info.

[Blue Horseshoe]

This.  Better yet, find an Asian tailor who visits the U.S.  Our office has a tailor that comes in from HK twice a year, October and April... he makes stops in 7-8 cities (usually SF, LA, DFW, Chicago and NYC plus 2-3 other cities like Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, DC, etc.) over a 30-day period that keeps his shop busy for the next 6 months.  Granted, prices are a bit more than if you walked in off the street in Shanghai, and sure, you're better off financially flying to Asia if you're turning over your entire wardrobe, but if you're building your wardrobe over time and want access to the latest patterns/styles and wools every six months, it can't be beat.  If you're in Chicago area (or any of the above cities) and want a referral, PM me and I'll send you his info.

Set reasonable expectations. I think these operations can fall into the "too good to be true" trap. Skilled tailors and high end bespoke/made to measure trunk shows exist, but they are a luxury and not fast fashion.

[rocket surgeon]

rocket

Bass is good shoe for the price. Again, the shift to Asian manufacturing affected quality to some degree. Footwear has in process of moving production again, out of China to cheaper countries. The Chinese were getting close to make decent shoes and now production headed to Vietnam and other locations. Pretty sad, but I miss the days of shoes made in China.

Thanks goose-I was on line looking for the same pair I had worn out as they were obviously comfortable, and somewhere between casual and dressy.  Dressy until I wore them cleaning up doggy dirt that is.  Could not find anything even close. 

[GooooMarquette]

On a some what related topic....What about men’s suits? I need to buy a couple and I don’t want to break the bank I also don’t want to look like a schmada either. I wear suits 3-4 days a week so they will be worn often. Also any thoughts on Super 110’s vs 120’s vs 130’s etc. As I understand it the lower the number the more durable. Additionally I think you need to balance durability vs wearing a wool sack. Thanks everyone.

As others have said, custom is the way to go if you can afford it.  I don't know where you live, but Top Shelf in Minneapolis is great - I've used them a couple of times.  http://topshelfinc.com

If you can't do custom, the Benjamin line suits through eHaberdasher are good for the money.  I have one and it's as as nice as a Canali that cost me twice as much.  http://ehaberdasher.com 

[manny31]

Thanks all for the input, I appreciate it. Benny, I am in the Chicago area and will PM you. One more question for all of you. Have any of you bought a suit from Nordstrom Rack or Saks off 5th or have any idea of the quality of the suits at these places? I saw that Saks Off 5th has a buy one get one free sale going. On line they have some decent names like Hickey Freeman, Bironi, Boss....I would assume that these are cheaper versions than are sold in the regular Nordstrom and Saks stores. As a reference point the Hickey Freeman Milburn II are 2 for 800.00, any comments? I also have a reputable tailor, Gus on Ashland. He is slow but really good. Thanks again everybody.

[GooooMarquette]

Thanks all for the input, I appreciate it. Benny, I am in the Chicago area and will PM you. One more question for all of you. Have any of you bought a suit from Nordstrom Rack or Saks off 5th or have any idea of the quality of the suits at these places? I saw that Saks Off 5th has a buy one get one free sale going. On line they have some decent names like Hickey Freeman, Bironi, Boss....I would assume that these are cheaper versions than are sold in the regular Nordstrom and Saks stores. As a reference point the Hickey Freeman Milburn II are 2 for 800.00, any comments? I also have a reputable tailor, Gus on Ashland. He is slow but really good. Thanks again everybody.

I haven't used Nordstrom Rack of Saks off 5th for a suit, but I've gotten nice casual shirts from both.  Rack was fine, but Saks off 5th wasn't.  I ordered a Robert Graham shirt that was advertised as regular fit, but it was actually trim fit.  And it happened twice. 

[PorkysButthole]

Depending on where your office is located, the Armoury is downtown (Tribeca) and the new Carmina store is in midtown by Grand Central.

Another thing to remember is that Sid Mashburn and other high end retailers usually have seasonal sale twice a year (most often June & December). Sometimes stores and brands will run friends & family and other promotions. Sales associates at Sid Mashburn do not work on commission. When you go back to the store definitely try on some shoes/clothes for sizes and get the associate's card to follow up for sale. Don't be a jag and try tons of stuff. It is the worst to waste someone's time. Set reasonable expectations if you are a common size or extreme size that it may be feast or famine.

Speaking of which, NYC is the mecca of sample sales. Follow ChichmiNYC, thechoosybeggar, and 260samplesale on Instagram (and check their websites) for info. They are lot of hit or miss, but discipline goes a long way. Bottega Veneta, Paul Smith, Canali, Loro Piana, Kiton and others usually have at least 1 per year. The first day is for the best selection and the last day is for the best discount/value.

Indeed!  I go on Thechoosybeggar all the time and it's great.  Are you familiar with Soiffer Haskin?  They hold great sample sales in their W 33rd St HQ across from MSG all the time.  You can subscribe to their e-mail alerts at http://www.soifferhaskin.com

As for Suits, it's hard to beat suitsupply for off the rack.  I can't afford $5K for a true custom suit from the likes of a Leonard Logsdail, and even if I could I rarely need to wear one these days so it's not worth it, but suit supply is eating everyone's lunch in terms of affordable luxury.  So much so that ultra luxe menswear retailers like Sid Mashburn in ATL and Mitchell's Stores in CT want in on the entry level suit market which they previously didn't carry.  There was an article about this in the WSJ just the other day in fact.  WSJ Subscribers can read it here:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cheap-suits-get-a-high-fashion-upgrade-1509190332

[hdog1017]

I'm a big Hush Puppy guy

[Blue Horseshoe]

Indeed!  I go on Thechoosybeggar all the time and it's great.  Are you familiar with Soiffer Haskin?  They hold great sample sales in their W 33rd St HQ across from MSG all the time.  You can subscribe to their e-mail alerts at http://www.soifferhaskin.com

As for Suits, it's hard to beat suitsupply for off the rack.  I can't afford $5K for a true custom suit from the likes of a Leonard Logsdail, and even if I could I rarely need to wear one these days so it's not worth it, but suit supply is eating everyone's lunch in terms of affordable luxury.  So much so that ultra luxe menswear retailers like Sid Mashburn in ATL and Mitchell's Stores in CT want in on the entry level suit market which they previously didn't carry.  There was an article about this in the WSJ just the other day in fact.  WSJ Subscribers can read it here:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cheap-suits-get-a-high-fashion-upgrade-1509190332

I've had some success at Soiffer Haskin, hope you have as well. Nothing like hitting the jackpot at a sample sale.

I like but don't love Suitsupply. I love the fabrics and different fits but I contain myself to browsing their online "warehouse" sale in January & July. Previous season gear is marked down 50% and some of their entry level shirts are 3 for $99.

Charles Tyrwhitt has a similar deal (more often). I've found their extra slim fit shirts to be the best at that price point.

[Chili]

Thanks all for the input, I appreciate it. Benny, I am in the Chicago area and will PM you. One more question for all of you. Have any of you bought a suit from Nordstrom Rack or Saks off 5th or have any idea of the quality of the suits at these places? I saw that Saks Off 5th has a buy one get one free sale going. On line they have some decent names like Hickey Freeman, Bironi, Boss....I would assume that these are cheaper versions than are sold in the regular Nordstrom and Saks stores. As a reference point the Hickey Freeman Milburn II are 2 for 800.00, any comments? I also have a reputable tailor, Gus on Ashland. He is slow but really good. Thanks again everybody.

If you're in Chicago this is the guy I have used for my suits and jackets. Has good package and intro prices and the results are fantastic.

https://www.danielgeorge.com/

[Benny B]

Set reasonable expectations. I think these operations can fall into the "too good to be true" trap. Skilled tailors and high end bespoke/made to measure trunk shows exist, but they are a luxury and not fast fashion.

That's why you rely on either word-of-mouth or build your own experience... I started out with buying two shirts from my guy, then two more, then two more, then a suit, then a sport coat, and after six purchases in three years, I didn't have any qualms buying three suits, two sport coats and five shirts on his last visit.  Any of this would have cost me at least 2-3x anywhere in the U.S.  Is it the best quality in the world?  No.  But it's certainly better than anything off the rack, and I haven't had anything that's failed or frayed yet (except for a button here and there... but the stitching has always held, it's the buttons themselves that occasionally fail).

I'm all for buying U.S. when I can, but like just about everything else, Americans excel at design and innovation; but once the blueprint is made, you can have it implemented just about anywhere.  That said, I'll freely admit that I buy A-E predominantly because they're Wisconsin-made, but that's just a "hometown pride" thing.  If they moved the factory so far as Gurnee, I'd probably never buy them again.

[Blue Horseshoe]

I'm all for buying U.S. when I can, but like just about everything else, Americans excel at design and innovation; but once the blueprint is made, you can have it implemented just about anywhere.  That said, I'll freely admit that I buy A-E predominantly because they're Wisconsin-made, but that's just a "hometown pride" thing.  If they moved the factory so far as Gurnee, I'd probably never buy them again.

Quality and construction aside, this is where individual style separates individuals. In general, I don't think Americans have great style. At least not millennials. There are some distinct American designers, but not a large selection. Thom Browne  (grey + grey = grey), Michael Bastian (preppy Americana), Tom Ford (ultra lux....but all construction is done by Zegna), Band of Outsiders (once upon a time...RIP), Brooks Brothers (owned by Italians since 2001), Ralph Lauren (meh), Calvin Klein (Raf Simmons - meh), John Varvatos (no thank you).

Menswear is in a weird place right now. There is a lot of anything goes, but most guys I know have a uniform that they like to stick with. My office is very casual, but I still like to wear a jacket and tie a couple times a week.

[PorkysButthole]

Quality and construction aside, this is where individual style separates individuals. In general, I don't think Americans have great style. At least not millennials. There are some distinct American designers, but not a large selection. Thom Browne  (grey + grey = grey), Michael Bastian (preppy Americana), Tom Ford (ultra lux....but all construction is done by Zegna), Band of Outsiders (once upon a time...RIP), Brooks Brothers (owned by Italians since 2001), Ralph Lauren (meh), Calvin Klein (Raf Simmons - meh), John Varvatos (no thank you).

Menswear is in a weird place right now. There is a lot of anything goes, but most guys I know have a uniform that they like to stick with. My office is very casual, but I still like to wear a jacket and tie a couple times a week.

Speaking of Mr. Ford I read this article /watched video on my commute home yesterday.  With the exception of Mr. Ford's POV on fragrance, this is as sound guidance as you'll find on the subject.

https://www.mrporter.com/journal/the-exclusive/mr-tom-fords-style-rule-book/2749

[warriorchick]

Speaking of Allen Edmonds...

[jficke13]

For suits I like Charles Tyrwhitt (ctshirts.com). I found a size/cut that fits me really well and I've been  happy with the quality/price point. Just make sure you never buy anything from them that's not on "sale." Their regular prices are way too high, but it's like Kohls. Everything is always on "sale."

[Blue Horseshoe]

Over Labor Day weekend I picked up a pair of Park Ave shoes via the Lord & Taylor website.... I have to agree, the quality seems to have declined since my last purchase (at least 5 or 6 years ago). The leather itself still seems ok, but the stitching and soles just don't seem to be as bulletproof as they used to. Very disappointing considering the price of the product has risen quite a bit.

[Jay Bee]

As others have said, custom is the way to go if you can afford it.  I don't know where you live, but Top Shelf in Minneapolis is great - I've used them a couple of times.  http://topshelfinc.com

Yes! A Minneapolis classic. I grew up in that neighborhood.

[dgies9156]

Find a good tailor and go custom. If you buy a few suits, jackets, shirts they'll usually have a bundle rate for you. Or if you really want to do it well fly to Shanghai, Seoul or a few other cities in Asia and get them. Not joking. Find a good biz class flight and head over for 2 days. You can come home with a new wardrobe for less than a few custom suits in the us.

Absolutely agree with custom. I'm 6'5" tall and kinda weight appropriate (for my age LOL) and the custom really works well. I have a tailor in Chicago who is really good and the suits turn out well. Off the rack, when I do, I do Hickey Freeman or high end lines of Hart, Schaffner and Marx. I agree with the earlier commentators who argue they have to fit. And, please, get one that fits around the middle.

There is a sportscaster on Channel 5 in Chicago whose suits look like they were sized by the same people who size Cheryl Scott's clothes on Channel 7. Tight fitting dresses may look good on a young, shapely woman but suits and sports jackets that are two sizes too small look awful on a guy. Throw out those old suits that you wore in your 20s and were two sizes too small in your 30s and spray painted on you now!

Also, don't scrimp on ties. They really make a difference.

As to A/E shoes, I have worn them for the past 30 years or so. I have not really noticed a downgrade in quality on them. The leather is great. Only criticism is they are stodgy.

[GB Warrior]

I own almost exlusively AE and Cole Haan. CH is great as a once in a while shoe, but IMO they don't wear in a way that makes salvaging them multiple times worth it. My AEs are an every day shoe whose leather quality has always been worth the repair costs.

I've dabbled in Florsheim when trying to save money, but it feels like a wash in the long run...

I have owned J&M before, and the quality seems strong. Their styles don't do as much for me, though