MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: tower912 on August 18, 2019, 02:16:12 PM
-
With some MU info I had not heard before.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27386544/think-an-edge
-
With some MU info I had not heard before.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27386544/think-an-edge
Awesome article - thanks for sharing.
-
Actually, the subsequent article on the page was more interesting.
Everyone knows the shoe companies are dirty. Something really needs to be done.
-
Article on Buzz is nothing new, but enjoyed it. Love the fact that he relates with the "brothers". That probably was what I loved the most about him. I do believe that chip on his shoulder goes a long way with the type of player he recruits. No doubt he will take the A&M program on a fun ride.
-
Article on Buzz is nothing new, but enjoyed it. Love the fact that he relates with the "brothers". That probably was what I loved the most about him. I do believe that chip on his shoulder goes a long way with the type of player he recruits. No doubt he will take the A&M program on a fun ride.
Bert will win. He is a great coach. He knows who he is, a paranoid Asperger's obsessive compulsive, and recruits kids who will buy into his victimhood narrative.
I feel sorry for the A&M administration, though, as Bertram brings a lot of issues they will be forced to deal with.
-
Half this board hates buzz for some reason. The guy may be awkward and a pain to work with. But he has proven he can win, he can recruit, and he can put together teams that are better then the sums of their parts.
His story isn't done yet, and I believe in 20 years that Marquette will regret ever letting him go.
-
Half this board hates buzz for some reason. The guy may be awkward and a pain to work with. But he has proven he can win, he can recruit, and he can put together teams that are better then the sums of their parts.
His story isn't done yet, and I believe in 20 years that Marquette will regret ever letting him go.
It's pretty easy to understand why people at MUScoop don't like Buzz. He gave up on his team after Vander left, he left Marquette with a bare cupboard, he might as well have just announced his exit from Marquette when he was on the set during the NCAA Tournament with his VT pin on his suit, he trashed the Big East on his way out, and he had player and/or NCAA issues seemingly every season he was here.
Not to mention his "aw shucks look at me I'm just the little guy from JUCO who doesn't know any better than wiping down floors and writing a letter a day to every coach I've ever come across" (but will demand a private jet on call to be ready within the hour of his need) got a little old.
He's a good coach. He'll also bring you a ton of baggage and, by his own admission, he'll only be around for 5-8 years, and he'll leave your program with very little talent remaining.
-
Half this board hates buzz for some reason. The guy may be awkward and a pain to work with. But he has proven he can win, he can recruit, and he can put together teams that are better then the sums of their parts.
His story isn't done yet, and I believe in 20 years that Marquette will regret ever letting him go.
Not many people here hate Buzz, certainly not half of Scoopers. Some of us love the work he did here, but don't appreciate the way he took shots at MU and the Big East on his way out the door.
Say what you want about Crean and his "It's Indiana" routine, but at least he never spoke ill of Marquette and continues to speak highly of his experience there.
And no, Buzz wasn't let go. He chose to leave, even after the university gave him what he wanted.
-
And no, Buzz wasn't let go. He chose to leave, even after the university gave him what he wanted.
I appreciate what Buzz did for Marquette and I loved the ferocity of his teams. In many ways, it was the best run we have had since Al.
But Buzz didn't go with dignity and there were many problems which were unacceptable from any perspective.
I have a colleague who played ball for Dean Smith at UNC. When the fake course story broke I ribbed him about that. His reply was that everyone cheats. In some way. And he specifically mentioned Buzz.
He also has maintained over the years that Coach K is far from the saint people have made him out to be. I think some of that evidence is now coming out.
As an aside, his father went to vet school at Auburn so he follows Auburn sports, too. He has met Pearl and thinks The Bruce has one of the finest tactical minds in college ball.
-
Half this board hates buzz for some reason. The guy may be awkward and a pain to work with. But he has proven he can win, he can recruit, and he can put together teams that are better then the sums of their parts.
His story isn't done yet, and I believe in 20 years that Marquette will regret ever letting him go.
Marquette didn't let him go.
-
Marquette didn't let him go.
So Marquette did all in their power to have him stay? No? Then they let him go.
-
So Marquette did all in their power to have him stay? No? Then they let him go.
That's really poor logic. Buzz used his own free will to leave Marquette. The choice was entirely his.
-
Crean sucks
-
Buzz sucks.
-
I thoroughly enjoyed most of Buzz's tenure as MU coach. I thought he did a poor job in Year 6, and his departure sucked -- he looked like a hypocrite, among other things. But by and large, I appreciate what he did for Marquette basketball, and I'd love to see Wojo's teams be a little more "rough and ready" the way Buzz's guys were.
Still about Buzz but not related to this article ...
A friend of mine has a daughter who went to VaTech and graduated in 2016. I met her last week and we were talking about Buzz. She said that he totally energized the program and brought a lot of excitement to the school.
She also said she was a waitress at Buffalo Wild Wings in Blacksburg in 2014 when Buzz was just getting started. "He brought his whole team in, including coaches. 20-some people. I waited on them hand and foot, took extremely good care of them. They were my only table -- I waited only on them during the hour-plus they were there. The bill comes, and he pays it with a university credit card. He left me a 10% tip. I couldn't effen believe it. So while I liked watching his team play, I never really felt like rooting for a guy who is so cheap and clueless that he leaves a great server a 10% tip."
-
I thoroughly enjoyed most of Buzz's tenure as MU coach. I thought he did a poor job in Year 6, and his departure sucked -- he looked like a hypocrite, among other things.
It is funny to see how many people cite the departure as a factor in whether you like the coach's time at a university. To me the only time you are satisfied with 'the departure' is if they are Al (retiring) or getting fired (finally time to look forward to the future).
Other than that, there really isn't a great way to break-up/leave.
-
I thoroughly enjoyed most of Buzz's tenure as MU coach. I thought he did a poor job in Year 6, and his departure sucked -- he looked like a hypocrite, among other things. But by and large, I appreciate what he did for Marquette basketball, and I'd love to see Wojo's teams be a little more "rough and ready" the way Buzz's guys were.
Still about Buzz but not related to this article ...
A friend of mine has a daughter who went to VaTech and graduated in 2016. I met her last week and we were talking about Buzz. She said that he totally energized the program and brought a lot of excitement to the school.
She also said she was a waitress at Buffalo Wild Wings in Blacksburg in 2014 when Buzz was just getting started. "He brought his whole team in, including coaches. 20-some people. I waited on them hand and foot, took extremely good care of them. They were my only table -- I waited only on them during the hour-plus they were there. The bill comes, and he pays it with a university credit card. He left me a 10% tip. I couldn't effen believe it. So while I liked watching his team play, I never really felt like rooting for a guy who is so cheap and clueless that he leaves a great server a 10% tip."
Buzz's life lessons. Tipping the water bottle half full of sand to see how you respond.
-
Other than that, there really isn't a great way to break-up/leave.
I'm pretty sure there are better ways to leave than taking a dump (and not flushing, of course) on the people who gave you an opportunity that, by your own admission, you probably didn't deserve.
-
Buzz the coach ----- great coach, Final Four type of coaching mind
Buzz the university representative(commercial) ---- mixed bag, it'll work out great as long as the representation aligns with how and what Buzz things is the way to go
Buzz as a university employee --- Highest of high maintenance. His way or the highway and unless you can work within his framework of right and wrong, etc you'll be ok
Buzz as someone who'll run a "clean program" --- no way in hell. And I mean this sincerely it's not because he is trying to cheat but he has total OCD around fighting for the underprivledged within the context of basketball and it absolutely takes priority over any other concern.
Buzz is a great coach, solid talent evaluator, etc but at the end of the day if your objectives/goals don't line up with his expectations things will blow up. He is not one to compromise or see the other side of the coin. I don't ascribe any of it really to malice(in the moment, after the fact he'll burn you for sure because he feels wronged) I simply think he has a certain point of view and no real ability to see any other point of view.
-
She also said she was a waitress at Buffalo Wild Wings in Blacksburg in 2014 when Buzz was just getting started. "He brought his whole team in, including coaches. 20-some people. I waited on them hand and foot, took extremely good care of them. They were my only table -- I waited only on them during the hour-plus they were there. The bill comes, and he pays it with a university credit card. He left me a 10% tip. I couldn't effen believe it. So while I liked watching his team play, I never really felt like rooting for a guy who is so cheap and clueless that he leaves a great server a 10% tip."
Curious what the rules are there. Is it a violation for the coach to buy dinner for his entire team?
-
Curious what the rules are there. Is it a violation for the coach to buy dinner for his entire team?
I was thinking the same thing.
Rick got dinged by the NCAA for buying dinners for his guys in the Marriott restaurant. Majerus argued, correctly, that the Marriott was his home. (As I understand, a coach having a kid over for dinner is NOT a violation of NCAA rules.)
Since Rick was busted for buying dinner for players how did Bert get away with this?
-
I was thinking the same thing.
Rick got dinged by the NCAA for buying dinners for his guys in the Marriott restaurant. Majerus argued, correctly, that the Marriott was his home. (As I understand, a coach having a kid over for dinner is NOT a violation of NCAA rules.)
Since Rick was busted for buying dinner for players how did Bert get away with this?
If it’s a university credit card then he didn’t pay for anything.
-
He also has maintained over the years that Coach K is far from the saint people have made him out to be. I think some of that evidence is now coming out.
As an aside, his father went to vet school at Auburn so he follows Auburn sports, too. He has met Pearl and thinks The Bruce has one of the finest tactical minds in college ball.
Coach K cares about Coach K far and away above all else. So writers, students, players, parents, etc... who potentially tarnish that brand in any way, will be subject to hellfire. And he sold his sold to the 1 and Done game awhile ago, so Duke is a slimy and dirty as they come in that space. They are the smartest about it though, letting the shoe companies handle the dirty work IMO.
And speaking of slimy, Pearl is 100% and can't stop getting in trouble for skirting the edges, but there is zero doubt he can coach. He's won everywhere. You could put him at Depaul and he'd have a winner in a couple years.
-
That's really poor logic. Buzz used his own free will to leave Marquette. The choice was entirely his.
I actually think you're both right. Buzz left of his own free will and MU let him go.
-
I actually think you're both right. Buzz left of his own free will and MU let him go.
Exactly, purest example of mutual separation I've ever seen
-
I thoroughly enjoyed most of Buzz's tenure as MU coach. I thought he did a poor job in Year 6, and his departure sucked -- he looked like a hypocrite, among other things. But by and large, I appreciate what he did for Marquette basketball, and I'd love to see Wojo's teams be a little more "rough and ready" the way Buzz's guys were.
Still about Buzz but not related to this article ...
A friend of mine has a daughter who went to VaTech and graduated in 2016. I met her last week and we were talking about Buzz. She said that he totally energized the program and brought a lot of excitement to the school.
She also said she was a waitress at Buffalo Wild Wings in Blacksburg in 2014 when Buzz was just getting started. "He brought his whole team in, including coaches. 20-some people. I waited on them hand and foot, took extremely good care of them. They were my only table -- I waited only on them during the hour-plus they were there. The bill comes, and he pays it with a university credit card. He left me a 10% tip. I couldn't effen believe it. So while I liked watching his team play, I never really felt like rooting for a guy who is so cheap and clueless that he leaves a great server a 10% tip."
If Buzz left a 10% tip on his personal credit card you could say he was cheap. University credit card? Most guys are heroes when it's not their money. Maybe there were restrictions, maybe someone embellished a little to you. Either way, unless there were restrictions (by the university) this doesn't make sense/pass the smell test.
-
If it’s a university credit card then he didn’t pay for anything.
Right but my understanding is that an institution can only pay for restaurant meals in certain situations - like the evening before a home game. Unless the rules adopted a few years ago changed that.
-
If Buzz left a 10% tip on his personal credit card you could say he was cheap. University credit card? Most guys are heroes when it's not their money. Maybe there were restrictions, maybe someone embellished a little to you. Either way, unless there were restrictions (by the university) this doesn't make sense/pass the smell test.
There are almost always tipping limitations with public university credit cards. But that doesn't mean you can't exceed them and pay the difference. Or maybe Buzz is just bad at math. Or maybe his friend's daughter is a bad waitress.
-
Seattle has an almost universal policy of restaurants adding 20% to the check. I actually prefer this since that's what i usually leave and, with my diminishing low light near vision, i don't have to break out the iPhone flashlight app.
My view on tipping is that if I intend to return to a place I tip properly. Wait staff are bringing you your food. Always consider that fact.
If Buzzard goes back to Wild Wings in Blacksburg he might get some additional protein in his dipping sauce.
-
Half this board hates buzz for some reason. The guy may be awkward and a pain to work with. But he has proven he can win, he can recruit, and he can put together teams that are better then the sums of their parts.
His story isn't done yet, and I believe in 20 years that Marquette will regret ever letting him go.
Coaches come and go, he has shown he isn’t long for anywhere. What makes you think he was going to stay at a Marquette? What coaches have stayed a long time?
-
Half this board hates buzz for some reason. The guy may be awkward and a pain to work with. But he has proven he can win, he can recruit, and he can put together teams that are better then the sums of their parts.
His story isn't done yet, and I believe in 20 years that Marquette will regret ever letting him go.
i agree and i also said the same thing about rick back in 1986
-
If Buzz left a 10% tip on his personal credit card you could say he was cheap. University credit card? Most guys are heroes when it's not their money. Maybe there were restrictions, maybe someone embellished a little to you. Either way, unless there were restrictions (by the university) this doesn't make sense/pass the smell test.
As Fluffy said, there may be a limit to what can be reimbursed, but you can always tip more and pay the difference out of pocket.
I do that all the time since my organization allows a 15% limit, but I never tip less than 20%. I just pay the extra out of my own pocket.
That said, it doesn't surprise me at all that Buzz would be cheap on a tip. It's consistent with other similar stories I've heard.
-
Tangent: IMO, tipping, as a means of compensation to make-whole a service industry employee, is bullcrap.
-
Tangent: IMO, tipping, as a means of compensation to make-whole a service industry employee, is bullcrap.
Mr. Pink....
-
Coaches come and go, he has shown he isn’t long for anywhere. What makes you think he was going to stay at a Marquette? What coaches have stayed a long time?
We have a bingo. The man is a nomad and he does his thing, starts to ware on the staff and finds the cowboy shtick starts to run out of steam and moves on to the next girl.
Avg coach at MU the last 30 years is not that long in tenure.
-
Cheeks1 to Cheeks2, come in please...
-
Cheeks1 to Cheeks2, come in please...
Don’t forget Billy and the others.....we’re all the same...lol
-
Don’t forget Billy and the others.....we’re all the same...lol
#truth
-
#truth
#fakenews
-
#fakenews
#derailment
-
Mr. Pink....
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wrwQ9G4epys/maxresdefault.jpg)
-
Buzz is a stud, top 15 in the country type of coach. He’ll win wherever he goes, no excuses. He also brings a ton of personality to the table. Sometimes his shtick is grating, and sometimes he dances a two step on the opponent’s home court after a huge win. I’ll take that any day over a bland jock who, between sips from his unnecessarily large glass of ice water, talks about how someday, at some point although no one’s really sure when, this will be a program that wins games in March.
All that said, Buzz was never going to stay here long term. He would’ve left for Texas or Louisville or a blue blood, just like Crean. But it was a fun ride while it lasted.
-
Buzz is a stud, top 15 in the country type of coach. He’ll win wherever he goes, no excuses. He also brings a ton of personality to the table. Sometimes his shtick is grating, and sometimes he dances a two step on the opponent’s home court after a huge win. I’ll take that any day over a bland jock who, between sips from his unnecessarily large glass of ice water, talks about how someday, at some point although no one’s really sure when, this will be a program that wins games in March.
All that said, Buzz was never going to stay here long term. He would’ve left for Texas or Louisville or a blue blood, just like Crean. But it was a fun ride while it lasted.
He killed it here his last year at MU when he mailed it in.....what a stud.
I suggest you and some others maybe find a new program to cheer for because his type isn’t going to be hired at MU. Why continue to put yourself through so much misery. Cut bait and go with the win at all costs, rules be damned, you ain’t trying if you ain’t cheating crowd...you will be way more happy.
-
Like him, dislike him, be indifferent to him, but.....Buzz’ on the court results are in line with my year to year expectations for Marquette as a program. Can Wojo start to achieve that before he runs out of time? We’ll see.
-
Like him, dislike him, be indifferent to him, but.....Buzz’ on the court results are in line with my year to year expectations for Marquette as a program. Can Wojo start to achieve that before he runs out of time? We’ll see.
Wojo has also been asked not to do some of the things Buzz did.....which according to some here make it more difficult to achieve those results. Wojo also didn’t walk into a ready made top 15 team like Buzz did.
-
Like him, dislike him, be indifferent to him, but.....Buzz’ on the court results are in line with my year to year expectations for Marquette as a program. Can Wojo start to achieve that before he runs out of time? We’ll see.
How much time is left at this point.
-
Wojo has also been asked not to do some of the things Buzz did.....which according to some here make it more difficult to achieve those results. Wojo also didn’t walk into a ready made top 15 team like Buzz did.
What about the year where Lazar played center? People love to talk about buzz's cupboard. He won with what he had.
-
What about the year where Lazar played center? People love to talk about buzz's cupboard. He won with what he had.
Well, what he had that year were two future NBA first-round picks and two other guys who would go on the play in the NBA.
Buzz did a great job that year and all, but let's not overlook the fact that the team - while absolutely lacking size and depth - was plenty talented.
And let's not forget that Lazar was forced to play in the post because Buzz's plan to backup the injury-prone Chris Otule was Youssoupha Mbao.
-
I think Buzz is a great coach. I also doubt Buzz can sustain a program. He even said when he left the pressure of expectations were getting to him. He left VA Tech right around the time of expectations changing from “gosh, it’s nice to be in the tournament” to “how far can we go each year.”
-
As Fluffy said, there may be a limit to what can be reimbursed, but you can always tip more and pay the difference out of pocket.
I do that all the time since my organization allows a 15% limit, but I never tip less than 20%. I just pay the extra out of my own pocket.
That said, it doesn't surprise me at all that Buzz would be cheap on a tip. It's consistent with other similar stories I've heard.
15%?! Thats ridiculous. Good on you for making the rest up. I could understand 18% as its the standard group rate tip, but 15% is TIGHT.
And not to tangent, but I agree about tipping. Bouncing around Europe and Asia on work, its great to tip and have it be very appreciated as a true bonus as opposed to a "make good" as it was aptly described.
-
Well, what he had that year were two future NBA first-round picks and two other guys who would go on the play in the NBA.
Buzz did a great job that year and all, but let's not overlook the fact that the team - while absolutely lacking size and depth - was plenty talented.
And let's not forget that Lazar was forced to play in the post because Buzz's plan to backup the injury-prone Chris Otule was Youssoupha Mbao.
Actually Buzz's first back-up plan was Liam McMorrow, but he had the medical issues. Then his second back-up plan was Jeronne Maymon, who's dad wanted no part of that plan.
Yous was a late addition who signed just before the news on Liam came out.
-
Cheeks1 to Cheeks2, come in please...
LOL
-
And let's not forget that Lazar was forced to play in the post because Buzz's plan to backup the injury-prone Chris Otule was Youssoupha Mbao.
Well, no.
-
Well, no.
Well, yes.
The staff knew about McMorrow's health condition in the spring before that season. Knowing he couldn't play, they went out and signed Mbao.
-
Buzz is one of those guys who actually looks older with hair
-
Was on the road and just got back to read responses to my post about Buzz tipping poorly.
I have absolutely no reason to believe the young woman who told me this was lying. She had absolutely no motive to lie. None. We were having a discussion, and she told me what happened.
She told me that BWW (at least the one in Blacksburg) does not have a minimum tipping requirement for a large party. I was surprised by that.
I have no idea if VaTech restricted the amount university employees could tip in such a situation, but if it did ... 10%? Really? And given that Buzz makes upwards of $3M and always paints himself as a friend of "average Joe," why wouldn't he reach into his pocket to leave a legit tip if that were the policy?
Again, unlike some Scoopers, I am a big fan of what Buzz accomplished as Marquette's coach. I LOVED watching his teams play most years, I went to the Elite 8 round in DC, and I was disappointed when he left because I thought he was an outstanding coach.
He obviously is a bad tipper, though, or at least he was that day.
The one out I will give him is that maybe he's just bad at math, or at least he was that day. It happens. I certainly don't doubt what the young woman told me is 100% true.
-
Was on the road and just got back to read responses to my post about Buzz tipping poorly.
I have absolutely no reason to believe the young woman who told me this was lying. She had absolutely no motive to lie. None. We were having a discussion, and she told me what happened.
She told me that BWW (at least the one in Blacksburg) does not have a minimum tipping requirement for a large party. I was surprised by that.
I have no idea if VaTech restricted the amount university employees could tip in such a situation, but if it did ... 10%? Really? And given that Buzz makes upwards of $3M and always paints himself as a friend of "average Joe," why wouldn't he reach into his pocket to leave a legit tip if that were the policy?
Again, unlike some Scoopers, I am a big fan of what Buzz accomplished as Marquette's coach. I LOVED watching his teams play most years, I went to the Elite 8 round in DC, and I was disappointed when he left because I thought he was an outstanding coach.
He obviously is a bad tipper, though, or at least he was that day.
The one out I will give him is that maybe he's just bad at math, or at least he was that day. It happens. I certainly don't doubt what the young woman told me is 100% true.
Maybe she was a bad waitress. Or was one of say 4. The biggest question I have on that is what kind of establishment sends one person to wait on 20+ people. Something isn't adding up
-
Well, yes.
The staff knew about McMorrow's health condition in the spring before that season. Knowing he couldn't play, they went out and signed Mbao.
So they found out about mcmorrows health issues in the spring, when nearly every good center was locked up? Damn. If that's your case against buzz you should crucify wojo every post.
-
Cut bait and go with the win at all costs, rules be damned, you ain’t trying if you ain’t cheating crowd...you will be way more happy.
Could we have some examples of how Williams "cheated" and what rules he broke?
-
Could we have some examples of how Williams "cheated" and what rules he broke?
Ha! As John Wayne and Buddy Holly said, “That’ll be the day.”
-
Ha! As John Wayne and Buddy Holly said, “That’ll be the day.”
The Searchers is to American cinema what Not Fade Away is to Ameircan music.
-
Maybe she was a bad waitress. Or was one of say 4. The biggest question I have on that is what kind of establishment sends one person to wait on 20+ people. Something isn't adding up
So based on all the information you have, the obvious conclusion is that either she was lying or she was a bad waitress (or both)? It couldn't possibly have been that she had no motivation to lie, that she was telling the truth and that Buzz (for whatever reason) left a bad tip?
OK then.
-
So based on all the information you have, the obvious conclusion is that either she was lying or she was a bad waitress (or both)? It couldn't possibly have been that she had no motivation to lie, that she was telling the truth and that Buzz (for whatever reason) left a bad tip?
OK then.
A party of six or more commands a 20% automatic tip at 97% of restaurants I frequent. I blame BWW.
-
The Searchers is to American cinema what Not Fade Away is to Ameircan music.
The Searchers is pure, unadulterated crap
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/the-searchers-john-ford-john-wayne-mediocre-western/
-
I was thinking the same thing.
Rick got dinged by the NCAA for buying dinners for his guys in the Marriott restaurant. Majerus argued, correctly, that the Marriott was his home. (As I understand, a coach having a kid over for dinner is NOT a violation of NCAA rules.)
Since Rick was busted for buying dinner for players how did Bert get away with this?
A - the rule has changed over time.
B - Rick did lots more than just buy dinner to get in trouble.
-
A - the rule has changed over time.
B - Rick did lots more than just buy dinner to get in trouble.
I claim no knowledge of NCAA compliance issues. I have much more important issues to deal with.
-
Maybe she was a bad waitress. Or was one of say 4. The biggest question I have on that is what kind of establishment sends one person to wait on 20+ people. Something isn't adding up
As someone who used to work at a BWW during summers in college, B dubs is absolutely the type of establishment who sends one waiter to cover a 20 person table.
-
Could we have some examples of how Williams "cheated" and what rules he broke?
There you go again, asking for facts. Be patient, shoes are about to drop. Cheeks promised.
-
So they found out about mcmorrows health issues in the spring, when nearly every good center was locked up? Damn. If that's your case against buzz you should crucify wojo every post.
Oh, grow the eff up. Newsflash... not every minor criticism of Buzz is sacrilege, and not everything needs to be viewed through a Buzz vs Wojo lens.
And, no, not "every good center" was locked up before the spring signing period. Buzz chose Mbao and it was a poor recruiting decision. He made several of them, just like every other coach. It's OK to admit it.
-
The Searchers is pure, unadulterated crap
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/the-searchers-john-ford-john-wayne-mediocre-western/
Who you going to believe , National Review (Are they still around) or the fellow who directed Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, and Good Fellows?
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/review-martin-scorsese-searchers-426059
-
I can't speak for other universities, but TAMU's policy is to only tip 10% when using university funds. As others have said, we are free to tip more on our own dime. I'll be honest, I never have. Though I've never taken more than 2 or 3 people out to a meal at a time.
To be clear, I'm speaking about my employer, not myself in the 3rd person.
-
As someone who used to work at a BWW during summers in college, B dubs is absolutely the type of establishment who sends one waiter to cover a 20 person table.
Don't let facts enter into this, CSFR. Much better for folks to accept as truth what they think should be true.
I can't speak for other universities, but TAMU's policy is to only tip 10% when using university funds. As others have said, we are free to tip more on our own dime. I'll be honest, I never have. Though I've never taken more than 2 or 3 people out to a meal at a time.
To be clear, I'm speaking about my employer, not myself in the 3rd person.
So when you take people out on the company dime, you feel fine only leaving your server -- who probably makes $3/hour -- a 10% tip?
If how I'm reading that is right, TAMU, I'm quite shocked by it.
-
The biggest question I have on that is what kind of establishment sends one person to wait on 20+ people.
Over the years with countless team meals (often 20+ people), I can say that our best experiences typically were at restaurants who assigned one server to deal with the entire group and didn't have any other tables. It's the equivalent of having 5-6 tables (which isn't that uncommon). It was almost always much better than when we had multiple servers who were also responsible for other tables at the same time. I'd rather have one dedicated server who is accountable for the table than a handful of servers who have other responsibilities and assume someone else will take care of things.
-
I claim no knowledge of NCAA compliance issues. I have much more important issues to deal with.
"I am going to speak as though I have the ultimate knowledge on the subject, and then when told I am wrong I am going to tell everyone how important my time is and I don't care about the details to which I just spoke out from the mountaintops."
Over the years with countless team meals (often 20+ people), I can say that our best experiences typically were at restaurants who assigned one server to deal with the entire group and didn't have any other tables. It's the equivalent of having 5-6 tables (which isn't that uncommon). It was almost always much better than when we had multiple servers who were also responsible for other tables at the same time. I'd rather have one dedicated server who is accountable for the table than a handful of servers who have other responsibilities and assume someone else will take care of things.
Agreed.
-
Don't let facts enter into this, CSFR. Much better for folks to accept as truth what they think should be true.
I don't think people were asserting the story was false, but that MAYBE she either didn't tell the whole story or embellished it a little. No need to be defensive about it.
-
Ha! As John Wayne and Buddy Holly said, “That’ll be the day.”
Thanks for quoting Mutaman, as he is on ignore and I would not have seen his response typical brilliance on display.
Aug 2012 for starters, that is what was publicly stated. The rest....MU is glad he is gone.
-
Thanks for quoting Mutaman, as he is on ignore and I would not have seen his response typical brilliance on display.
Aug 2012 for starters, that is what was publicly stated. The rest....MU is glad he is gone.
Mutaman charges $500 an hour, donchaknow? Wonder how many clients he actually has, though. Likely not many Native Americans.
(https://dss.fosterwebmarketing.com/upload/injurytriallawyer.com/Ambulance%20Chaser.jpg)
-
Mutaman charges $500 an hour, donchaknow? Wonder how many clients he actually has, though. Likely not many Native Americans.
(https://dss.fosterwebmarketing.com/upload/injurytriallawyer.com/Ambulance%20Chaser.jpg)
I though u and I had reached a place where we could argue issues w/o getting into the ad hominems. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Problem is, every time you post, we all have to do a search to see who you are plagiarizing.
Busy busy- you can have the last word.
-
Thanks for quoting Mutaman, as he is on ignore and I would not have seen his response typical brilliance on display.
Aug 2012 for starters, that is what was publicly stated. The rest....MU is glad he is gone.
Chicos' only problem with Buzz was the complexion of the guys he recruited.
-
Chicos' only problem with Buzz was the complexion of the guys he recruited.
Wow. Apparently your commitment to avoid ad hominems was either narrowly-tailored or short-lived.
-
Wow. Apparently your commitment to avoid ad hominems was either narrowly-tailored or short-lived.
Never made a commitment to avoid pointing out Chico's bigotry.
-
So when you take people out on the company dime, you feel fine only leaving your server -- who probably makes $3/hour -- a 10% tip?
If how I'm reading that is right, TAMU, I'm quite shocked by it.
You would be shocked by how loudly people complain about how universities spend "tax payer dollars." I had a colleague who was a police offer at the University of Connecticut before moving to Texas. A common practice for officers on traffic duty in the winter was for them to leave their squad cars running while they were directing traffic, so they could quickly duck inside the car and warm up when they had a break. Someone driving by noticed an officer doing this, and made enough of a stink that "tax payer dollars were being wasted by squad cars idling" that the officers were told that they couldn't do this anymore. Instead, they just had to freeze their a$$es off because of the one thousandth of a penny it was costing each tax payer.
As for me personally, I honestly don't lose any sleep over it. I worked a waiter job for 4 years and regularly got 10% tips, 30% tips, and sometimes no tips. It's part of the job. Also, the few times I've gotten to use a company card for a meal, it's not for my own benefit. I'm usually buying meals for students, or for an event that my office is hosting. I myself am not eating or if I am eating, it's 1 box lunch in an order of 100 box lunches. I don't feel obligated to put up my personal cash because the university is cheap.
-
Never made a commitment to avoid pointing out Chico's bigotry.
So, narrowly-tailored. Got it.
-
Chicos' only problem with Buzz was the complexion of the guys he recruited.
Come on now. If that were true he would have a problem with Wojo as well wouldn't he?
-
You would be shocked by how loudly people complain about how universities spend "tax payer dollars." I had a colleague who was a police offer at the University of Connecticut before moving to Texas. A common practice for officers on traffic duty in the winter was for them to leave their squad cars running while they were directing traffic, so they could quickly duck inside the car and warm up when they had a break. Someone driving by noticed an officer doing this, and made enough of a stink that "tax payer dollars were being wasted by squad cars idling" that the officers were told that they couldn't do this anymore. Instead, they just had to freeze their a$$es off because of the one thousandth of a penny it was costing each tax payer.
As for me personally, I honestly don't lose any sleep over it. I worked a waiter job for 4 years and regularly got 10% tips, 30% tips, and sometimes no tips. It's part of the job. Also, the few times I've gotten to use a company card for a meal, it's not for my own benefit. I'm usually buying meals for students, or for an event that my office is hosting. I myself am not eating or if I am eating, it's 1 box lunch in an order of 100 box lunches. I don't feel obligated to put up my personal cash because the university is cheap.
Interesting.
You also are not a multimillionaire who has stated publicly and proudly to being an advocate for the common man/woman.
Finally, on the list of taxpayer complaints, I would think giving a server an 18% tip on top of her $3/hour job would be pretty low on the list. But maybe I'm wrong and your anecdote "proves" it.
-
I claim no knowledge of NCAA compliance issues. I have much more important issues to deal with.
just pointing out that Rick was not as innocent as he represented himself to be to the public. Buying players dinner on even a couple occasions would never result in NCAA investigators visiting campus or writing a violation report...unless it was part of an epidemic of violations.
-
Last summer I was having dinner at Mo's (not a Meat Summit, FYI) and the entire #mubb team + coaches came in for dinner. They had the private room upstairs. It must be completely legal bc they eventually shared it on IG, etc.
I had two thoughts:
1) Imagine being a server with a party of twenty but no booze to help the bill
2) Imagine being Wojo / Stan / Brett and having to sit through an entire steak dinner with no bourbon or wine.
-
Last summer I was having dinner at Mo's (not a Meat Summit, FYI) and the entire #mubb team + coaches came in for dinner. They had the private room upstairs. It must be completely legal bc they eventually shared it on IG, etc.
I had two thoughts:
1) Imagine being a server with a party of twenty but no booze to help the bill
2) Imagine being Wojo / Stan / Brett and having to sit through an entire steak dinner with no bourbon or wine.
Is there some rule against alcohol?
-
Is there some rule against alcohol?
You may not have heard but Markus graduated HS earlier and turns 21 later than the usual college student.
-
Is there some rule against alcohol?
My guess is they coaches can order alcohol if they pay for it themselves. My other guess is that they don't drink alcohol when they are with the team.
-
Chicos' only problem with Buzz was the complexion of the guys he recruited.
You mean like Native Americans?
-
just pointing out that Rick was not as innocent as he represented himself to be to the public. Buying players dinner on even a couple occasions would never result in NCAA investigators visiting campus or writing a violation report...unless it was part of an epidemic of violations.
Got it. Thanks for that as I do know you this is your area of expertise.
The Majerus story was fairly well publicized as the press picked up on it and made anti-NCAA hay out of it.
I have posted here a few times that one of my colleagues hooped at UNC for Smith and even got in a year overseas before he got an MBA at Wharton.
He maintains with a straight face that everyone who wins bends the rules. Some wittingly and others unwittingly. Cheating in college ball is a fact.
The NCAA can be obtuse but they are there for a reason.
Obviously, the rule about buying dinners came about because of some abuse in the past. Majerus treating in his "dining room" got some media run and I was relating just that.
Was Majerus dirty? I don't know. Did Rick likely bend some rules? Since he competed at the highest level I would guess yes.
Fact is, anyone who thinks that Al was a saint needs a reality check. Marquette players were paid. Period. Philosophically, does the fact that UCLA was 5 times worse than Marquette back then make Marquette any less guilty?
I am hearing on very good authority some crazy stories about Duke abuses, generally filtered through 3-4 layers of cutouts from K. And according to one who knows, and who admittedly does not like Wojo, our own Boy Wonder was involved in a few shenanigans at Duke.
Since you are in the business I have to ask how UNC runs a sham academic program for years and gets away with it? Cleveland State gets the death penalty for crazy stuff which, in the larger context, is nothing compared with a nationally recognized university committing fraud.
Thoughts? (sincerely posed)
-
I though u and I had reached a place where we could argue issues w/o getting into the ad hominems. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Problem is, every time you post, we all have to do a search to see who you are plagiarizing.
Busy busy- you can have the last word.
As part of our giveback our fund does investment in Indian Country in the lower 48 and AK. We do this for the sole purpose of helping improve the lives of the underserved. There are Scoopers who know the details of this and can confirm what we are doing.
I am familiar with Indian Country and have an awareness of their sensitivities. One of them is how Mainstream America has portrayed them in the media and popular culture.
When I tell you that The Searchers is deeply offensive to the Native community you argue otherwise. As a "Progressive Liberal" I would think you would be deeply ashamed for championing a film which degrades the dignity of an entire ethnic group.
As a work of art it is insipid, overwrought, and droll. As a cultural statement it is an outrageous depiction which strips away the dignity of a people who have been brutalized by the white colonists.
-
I am hearing on very good authority some crazy stories about Duke abuses, generally filtered through 3-4 layers of cutouts from K. And according to one who knows, and who admittedly does not like Wojo, our own Boy Wonder was involved in a few shenanigans at Duke.
I've heard that Wojo wasn't very happy with what had become a growing problem at Duke, it is one of the reasons he looked at Marquette, and that both parties could never see him returning to Duke.
-
I've heard that Wojo wasn't very happy with what had become a growing problem at Duke, it is one of the reasons he looked at Marquette, and that both parties could never see him returning to Duke.
I haven't heard it stated as strongly as that, but I have heard that Wojo was not happy with what Capel was doing.
My personal best guess would be Wojo would be willing to (and possibly does) let the game be the game in terms of shoe companies leading kids a certain direction (and maybe even boosters having some "influence") but the blatant involvement by staff members might have crossed a line.
I am in no way surprised that Keefe's coworker who is a Tar Heel is saying Duke and Wojo are as bad as they come.
-
I've heard that Wojo wasn't very happy with what had become a growing problem at Duke, it is one of the reasons he looked at Marquette, and that both parties could never see him returning to Duke.
I think it is a lot deeper than is public. My colleague doesn't like Duke but he is a fair guy who has related some of the shenanigans at UNC (which is a lot worse on the football side than hoops.)
I don't think Wojo was a saint but he wasn't the worst offender in Durham.
Philosophically, was the Party functionary in a mid-sized German city performing a bureaucratic function that in someway indirectly made possible the Final Solution any less guilty than Eichmann, Heydrich, or the goon in the camp?
-
I think it is a lot deeper than is public. My colleague doesn't like Duke but he is a fair guy who has related some of the shenanigans at UNC (which is a lot worse on the football side than hoops.)
I don't think Wojo was a saint but he wasn't the worst offender in Durham.
Philosophically, was the Party functionary in a mid-sized German city performing a bureaucratic function that in someway indirectly made possible the Final Solution any less guilty than Eichmann, Heydrich, or the goon in the camp?
Godwin's Law aside, everyone has done something during their careers they aren't proud of. We have all at one time crossed ethical and/or legal boundaries for a customer, to hide something from a regulator, etc. So it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Wojo did stuff against NCAA regulations.
But perhaps he didn't want to consistently go down that path and grew from the experience. Or maybe he wasn't all that concerned about it and took at job simply because he was ready for one. I have no idea.
-
Got it. Thanks for that as I do know you this is your area of expertise.
The Majerus story was fairly well publicized as the press picked up on it and made anti-NCAA hay out of it.
I have posted here a few times that one of my colleagues hooped at UNC for Smith and even got in a year overseas before he got an MBA at Wharton.
He maintains with a straight face that everyone who wins bends the rules. Some wittingly and others unwittingly. Cheating in college ball is a fact.
The NCAA can be obtuse but they are there for a reason.
Obviously, the rule about buying dinners came about because of some abuse in the past. Majerus treating in his "dining room" got some media run and I was relating just that.
Was Majerus dirty? I don't know. Did Rick likely bend some rules? Since he competed at the highest level I would guess yes.
Fact is, anyone who thinks that Al was a saint needs a reality check. Marquette players were paid. Period. Philosophically, does the fact that UCLA was 5 times worse than Marquette back then make Marquette any less guilty?
I am hearing on very good authority some crazy stories about Duke abuses, generally filtered through 3-4 layers of cutouts from K. And according to one who knows, and who admittedly does not like Wojo, our own Boy Wonder was involved in a few shenanigans at Duke.
Since you are in the business I have to ask how UNC runs a sham academic program for years and gets away with it? Cleveland State gets the death penalty for crazy stuff which, in the larger context, is nothing compared with a nationally recognized university committing fraud.
Thoughts? (sincerely posed)
I'll try point by point:
Majerus used his PR people and his "jolly fat man" reputation to spin things his way, focusing on the minor things. Again, the NCAA doesn't do an investigation for buying a team dinner.
Yes, there is cheating. Coach friends have been open saying who cheats and who does not. Nothing they can do. Think about it, Dave Bliss tried to smear a dead kid and the coach who turned him in was the one blacklisted. Honor amongst thieves.
Al was not a saint, nor was Wooden. But that was a different time. I had a Washington football player from the '60s telling a few of us about the cars he got to use back in the day. That was rampant and not frowned upon. I would imagine that at the time there was no NCAA rule book. There weren't even academic standards for initial eligibility (see: Chris Washburn and Dexter Manley) or continuing eligibility (see: Len Bias) until the late '80s.
I've heard plenty about Duke too. Their (alleged) scheme is a good one! I have never heard anything about Wojo.
The UNC approach that they took was brilliant. It wasn't athletics, it was the school and those classes were offered by everyone. It became an issue of jurisdiction. Since UNC was able to prove every student had access to the courses and athletes were not the disproportionate population taking the classes the NCAA didn't have the power to sanction them; it was for their Accreditation organization to do that. remember how the NCAA's penalties against Penn State were overturned by the courts - the judge determined the violations were not those found in NCAA bylaws. UNC was hit a few years earlier for academic and agent issues in football.
There have only been three D1 programs given the Death Penalty, the last being SMU. If Baylor didn't get it back in 2005 then nobody will. The NCAA does go after big schools. They wanted to nail Miami so bad the lead investigator got himself fired for his tactics. What hamstrings the NCAA is that they don't have subpoena power.
It's funny that Tark, one of the dirtiest coaches in history, used the Cleveland State example right when they were rightfully nailed for paying recruits in the mid 80's - Manute Bol was at the center of the violations. He was trying to play the victim and the myth survives to this day.
-
As a work of art it is insipid, overwrought, and droll. As a cultural statement it is an outrageous depiction which strips away the dignity of a people who have been brutalized by the white colonists.
Well I know you didn't plagiarize that statement because nobody else would write something so foolish. Might have to agree with "droll" -("funny, humorous, amusing, comic, comical, mirthful") Even when Ford is treating issues as serious as racism and miscegenation, he manages to mix in comedic elements. Just like Twain.
-
Wonder how many clients he actually has, though. Likely not many Native Americans.
Do Nuyoricans count?
-
Come on now. If that were true he would have a problem with Wojo as well wouldn't he?
Yup. Logic lacking....playing the race card, it is what he and others do because they have nothing else. Very sad, very predictable. Oh well.
-
Yup. Logic lacking....playing the race card, it is what he and others do because they have nothing else. Very sad, very predictable. Oh well.
Oh please. Buzz consistently had a team of all Afro Americans , Wojo never has. its so obvious why Chicos hates Buzz.
-
...playing the race card, it is what he and others do because they have nothing else.
Actually Chicos we have a zillion other things- one for each time you've been suspended.
-
Back to the Cowboy...
Look, the guy was a winner at Marquette and a winner at Virginia Tech. He generally did his coaching job well (absent his last season with us) and recruited athletes who moved us into a consistent level we had not seen since the Al years. IMHO, there were two coaches since Al who could have led us to the promised land -- Kevin O'Neill and the Cowboy. Had either not left us, we probably would be a consistent Top 10 team.
Sorry folks, seeing him dance at mid-court in Morgantown, WV after beating Huggie made me feel for a brief moment like we were in the 1970s again! The Cowboy had a personality too, which was nice to see!
The Cowboy isn't with us any longer for a couple of reasons. The first is that he is an itinerant coach. Every year, we shook while we waited for other schools to shop at Store Cowboy. We wondered who inevitably would hire him. We knew the question wasn't if he would leave, it was when. Not sure even Texas A&M has stopped that!
The second reason is the pressure the university put on him to end the shenanigans. When a basketball player's misbehavior ends up on the front page of the Chicago Tribune, you have a problem. When a woman alleges a sexual assault and campus security calls the basketball coach instead of following Wisconsin law, you have an even bigger problem. Top all that off with an allegation of a very minor NCAA recruiting violation and the Administration had to do something. They did and Team Cowboy didn't like it -- one bit.
Ultimately, the Cowboy likely left in no small measure because he'd worn his welcome out at Marquette. His last season started when Vander Blue turned pro, leaving us with no serviceable point guard, and ended with a disaster in which a team alleged to be good enough to compete for a Big East title, was horrible. More than a few thought he had mailed his last season in, already checking out before it even started.
While he was with us, the rap on the Cowboy was he didn't develop talent, start to finish. He was really good at chasing JUCO transfers, but as I recall, really only the aforementioned Mr. Blue was developed from a freshman into a top tier Big East player. Add to all of this the classless manner in which the Cowboy left and for a lot of us, it was good riddance.
-
Oh please. Buzz consistently had a team of all Afro Americans , Wojo never has. its so obvious why Chicos hates Buzz.
Dude don’t be a dick.
-
Dude don’t be a dick.
Did he really say that...my God. So weird that I supported Shaka Smart as our head coach, or easily more than 90% of my favorite MU players through the years are minority...but again, Mutaman and facts don’t exist together. What a sad man.
-
My guess is they coaches can order alcohol if they pay for it themselves. My other guess is that they don't drink alcohol when they are with the team.
And the players that are 21+
-
I'll try point by point:
Majerus used his PR people and his "jolly fat man" reputation to spin things his way, focusing on the minor things. Again, the NCAA doesn't do an investigation for buying a team dinner.
Yes, there is cheating. Coach friends have been open saying who cheats and who does not. Nothing they can do. Think about it, Dave Bliss tried to smear a dead kid and the coach who turned him in was the one blacklisted. Honor amongst thieves.
Al was not a saint, nor was Wooden. But that was a different time. I had a Washington football player from the '60s telling a few of us about the cars he got to use back in the day. That was rampant and not frowned upon. I would imagine that at the time there was no NCAA rule book. There weren't even academic standards for initial eligibility (see: Chris Washburn and Dexter Manley) or continuing eligibility (see: Len Bias) until the late '80s.
I've heard plenty about Duke too. Their (alleged) scheme is a good one! I have never heard anything about Wojo.
The UNC approach that they took was brilliant. It wasn't athletics, it was the school and those classes were offered by everyone. It became an issue of jurisdiction. Since UNC was able to prove every student had access to the courses and athletes were not the disproportionate population taking the classes the NCAA didn't have the power to sanction them; it was for their Accreditation organization to do that. remember how the NCAA's penalties against Penn State were overturned by the courts - the judge determined the violations were not those found in NCAA bylaws. UNC was hit a few years earlier for academic and agent issues in football.
There have only been three D1 programs given the Death Penalty, the last being SMU. If Baylor didn't get it back in 2005 then nobody will. The NCAA does go after big schools. They wanted to nail Miami so bad the lead investigator got himself fired for his tactics. What hamstrings the NCAA is that they don't have subpoena power.
It's funny that Tark, one of the dirtiest coaches in history, used the Cleveland State example right when they were rightfully nailed for paying recruits in the mid 80's - Manute Bol was at the center of the violations. He was trying to play the victim and the myth survives to this day.
Thanks for the insight.
I think the bottom line is that high major college sports is a business. I have always been against payment schemes but a harmonized, curated system is likely the best possible mechanism for managing the abuses.
I have two sons who participated in inter-collegiate athletics. One was on an NCAA Championship team in a minor sport for a small liberal arts college in New England. Players were restricted to in-season formal participation. Another played high major football where being on the team was a year round activity, including summers.
The emphasis by the small liberal arts college was academics while the large land-grant school set the bar at remain eligible.
We aren't shocked when we hear about abuses at the came-out-of-nowhere Wichita States or the UKs of the world but when it is clear the Dukes and Stanfords are playing loose, programs held up as examples of the student-athlete ideal, it is pretty clear the system is broken.
Since you are in the compliance biz, is there merit to a harmonized, curated system that would level the playing field by establishing standards of compensation for student-athletes?
-
Well I know you didn't plagiarize that statement because nobody else would write something so foolish. Might have to agree with "droll" -("funny, humorous, amusing, comic, comical, mirthful") Even when Ford is treating issues as serious as racism and miscegenation, he manages to mix in comedic elements. Just like Twain.
You avoided the question.
How do you celebrate a film that perpetuates vicious, ugly stereotypes of Native Americans?
And yes, in the context of what I wrote, droll is very much correct as a statement about your support of a film which portrays Natives in such a vile, repugnant manner.
Let me ask was your favorite scene the one in which Jeffrey Hunter kicks his "squaw" down the hill or in the depiction of Comanches as primitive, blood-thirsty savages utterly devoid of any moral center?
Your defense of a film that has been derided by critics as pablum and identified by Indian Country as a nasty testament to white society's profound disgust for the Native community is mind-boggling.
Frankly, it screams volumes about you, a self-identified sophisticated "Progressive Liberal" of discriminating tastes.
The Searchers is racist garbage that demeans a noble people who have been decimated by systematic policy and action. Your support of it diminishes your claim to the intellectual perch on which you have placed yourself.
The only "beauty" in The Searchers is Ford's Monument Valley backdrop but that prop really has no place in the story. If you want to see how stunning visuals are an integral part of the story I would suggest you view Kurosawa's Ran or Kagemusha. But then, his being Japanese and all, you likely have no taste for art crafted by a yellow man.
http://screenprism.com/insights/article/is-the-searchers-portrayal-of-native-americans-problematic
https://azdailysun.com/entertainment/movies/the-searchers-a-racist-frontier-myth/article_315f6956-b764-54fd-8eaa-2c85bbf0d75e.html
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/the-searchers-john-ford-john-wayne-mediocre-western/
http://www.philfilms.utm.edu/1/searchers.htm
-
Dude don’t be a dick.
He's not a dick. He's a racist.
-
Back to the Cowboy...
Look, the guy was a winner at Marquette and a winner at Virginia Tech. He generally did his coaching job well (absent his last season with us) and recruited athletes who moved us into a consistent level we had not seen since the Al years. IMHO, there were two coaches since Al who could have led us to the promised land -- Kevin O'Neill and the Cowboy. Had either not left us, we probably would be a consistent Top 10 team
KO has as much to do with Marquette's basketball resurgence as Crean, but id pump the brakes. He had 1 NCAA appearance post-Marquette, not counting his random year as the interim coach at Zona. I think he was a great turnaround guy and caught lightning in a bottle with that local class of Key, Logterman, and Mac. But I don't think it would have been sustainable much past that, problems with the admin or boosters aside.
-
"The film was a commercial success. Since its release, it has come to be considered a masterpiece and one of the greatest and most influential films ever made. It was named the greatest American Western by the American Film Institute in 2008, and it placed 12th on the same organization's 2007 list of the 100 greatest American movies of all time.[4] Entertainment Weekly also named it the best Western.[5] The British Film Institute's Sight & Sound magazine ranked it as the seventh-best film of all time based on a 2012 international survey of film critics[6][7] and in 2008, the French magazine Cahiers du Cinéma ranked The Searchers number 10 in their list of the 100 best films ever made.[8]
In 1989, The Searchers was deemed "culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant" by the United States Library of Congress, and selected for preservation in its National Film Registry; it was one of the first 25 films selected for the registry.
The Searchers was the first major film to have a purpose-filmed making-of, requested by John Ford. It deals with most aspects of making the movie, including preparation of the site, construction of props, and filming techniques.[9] "
Wiki
-
Oh please. Buzz consistently had a team of all Afro Americans , Wojo never has. its so obvious why Chicos hates Buzz.
Surprised you did use "colored", you racist a$$hole.
-
Oh please. Buzz consistently had a team of all Afro Americans , Wojo never has. its so obvious why Chicos hates Buzz.
Have you seen the current roster????
(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Howard_Markus_0_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Bailey_Brendan_1_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Anim_Sacar_2_MUMB_2019S_71.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/John_Theo_4_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Elliott_Greg_5_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Torrence_Symir_10_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/16/Akanno_Dexter_12_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/20/Eke_Ike_13_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Cain_Jamal_23_MUMB_2019S_71.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/McEwen_Koby_25_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Morrow_Ed_30_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/16/Johnson_Jayce_34_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)
-
Back to the Cowboy...
Look, the guy was a winner at Marquette and a winner at Virginia Tech. He generally did his coaching job well (absent his last season with us) and recruited athletes who moved us into a consistent level we had not seen since the Al years. IMHO, there were two coaches since Al who could have led us to the promised land -- Kevin O'Neill and the Cowboy. Had either not left us, we probably would be a consistent Top 10 team.
Hmmm, you forgot the guy who got us closer to the "promised land" than any other coach since Al and didn't have the resources that Buzz had. A coach who also rebuilt a devastated Indiana program and got them to multiple Sweet 16's and two outright Big Ten titles. Buzz started much further ahead at Va Tech than TC did at Indiana and didn't have the same level of success (unless you ask him). TC would have been the guy.
And let's not forget this quote regarding the BE invite: Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese cited his friendship with Crean as contributing to the invitation, saying, "That, to me, was one of the great appeals, to get Tommy as well as Marquette into the league."
-
Hanging at the Al?
This might be the first thread that could be moved from the Superbar.
-
Surprised you did use "colored", you racist a$$hole.
Eloquently put, Robespierre.
-
Hmmm, you forgot the guy who got us closer to the "promised land" than any other coach since Al and didn't have the resources that Buzz had. A coach who also rebuilt a devastated Indiana program and got them to multiple Sweet 16's and two outright Big Ten titles. Buzz started much further ahead at Va Tech than TC did at Indiana and didn't have the same level of success (unless you ask him). TC would have been the guy.
And let's not forget this quote regarding the BE invite: Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese cited his friendship with Crean as contributing to the invitation, saying, "That, to me, was one of the great appeals, to get Tommy as well as Marquette into the league."
I'm not a Crean hater but this is lunacy. Maybe if Crean was the AD. He peaked at Marquette and thats why he left. He knew it. He made a FF with probably the best player in program history and a consensus top 20-25 player in NBA history. He didn't sniff those heights again in 4 years after.
Buzz made 3 straight S16s, was a terrible shooting game away from the F4 in 2013. He was set up to continue that path before he quit on the program.
Crean helped transform the program but leveraging lightning in a bottle into a BEast invite. He's a MU legend for that alone. But there is way less what-if to him than Buzz. We got 4 years off backside relative decline from his peak to assess that. Both parties were better off with his parting in the long run.
-
Hmmm, you forgot the guy who got us closer to the "promised land" than any other coach since Al and didn't have the resources that Buzz had. A coach who also rebuilt a devastated Indiana program and got them to multiple Sweet 16's and two outright Big Ten titles. Buzz started much further ahead at Va Tech than TC did at Indiana and didn't have the same level of success (unless you ask him). TC would have been the guy.
And let's not forget this quote regarding the BE invite: Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese cited his friendship with Crean as contributing to the invitation, saying, "That, to me, was one of the great appeals, to get Tommy as well as Marquette into the league."
Seriously? IU fans were tired of Crean when he couldn't get Oladipo, Yogi, and Zeller past the S16. 9 NCAA tournament bids in 19 years as a head coach. Career conference record of 163-163. I appreciate what he did at MU 190 wins in 9 years, a final 4. But he only won one other tourney game in his other 8 years at MU He is recruiting well at Georgia, but he recruited well at IU initially, too. He is a decent coach. But not a great one.
-
Seriously? IU fans were tired of Crean when he couldn't get Oladipo, Yogi, and Zeller past the S16. 9 NCAA tournament bids in 19 years as a head coach. Career conference record of 163-163. I appreciate what he did at MU 190 wins in 9 years, a final 4. But he only won one other tourney game in his other 8 years at MU He is recruiting well at Georgia, but he recruited well at IU initially, too. He is a decent coach. But not a great one.
Indiana fans were tired of anyone who was not Bob Knight. You also have to take into account the program he inherited at MU (14-15, Krunti Hester as the only recruit) and what he inherited at Indiana (1 returning player who has actually scored in a game, a walk-on, extremely limited off-campus recruiting due to probation) when taking into account his records. And while he lost in the Sweet 16, each time that team went on to the Final Four (one to the finals, one won it all).
3 outright conference titles, 4 Sweet 16's, one Final Four, no NCAA visits to campus. I'll take that over Buzz or KO. Buzz inherited a BMW X5 at MU, Crean inherited a Ford Escort.
-
Hmmm, you forgot the guy who got us closer to the "promised land" than any other coach since Al and didn't have the resources that Buzz had. A coach who also rebuilt a devastated Indiana program and got them to multiple Sweet 16's and two outright Big Ten titles. Buzz started much further ahead at Va Tech than TC did at Indiana and didn't have the same level of success (unless you ask him). TC would have been the guy.
And let's not forget this quote regarding the BE invite: Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese cited his friendship with Crean as contributing to the invitation, saying, "That, to me, was one of the great appeals, to get Tommy as well as Marquette into the league."
Thanks Dwyane.
-
Hmmm, you forgot the guy who got us closer to the "promised land" than any other coach since Al and didn't have the resources that Buzz had. A coach who also rebuilt a devastated Indiana program and got them to multiple Sweet 16's and two outright Big Ten titles. Buzz started much further ahead at Va Tech than TC did at Indiana and didn't have the same level of success (unless you ask him). TC would have been the guy.
Crean wasn't consistent. The Cowboy was.
O'Neill had us headed for greatness, had he held his ego and his mouth in check. Maybe he could have caught lightening in a bottle, like the Tanned One did. Maybe not. But I really believe he turned us back in the direction we needed to go.
No O'Neill. We're Loyola of Chicago forever and we're playing UWM twice a year.
-
Thanks Dwyane.
who got us Dwyane, especially when the administration was blocking it?
-
who got us Dwyane, especially when the administration was blocking it?
Thanks power conference academic rules.
-
Indiana fans were tired of anyone who was not Bob Knight. You also have to take into account the program he inherited at MU (14-15, Krunti Hester as the only recruit) and what he inherited at Indiana (1 returning player who has actually scored in a game, a walk-on, extremely limited off-campus recruiting due to probation) when taking into account his records. And while he lost in the Sweet 16, each time that team went on to the Final Four (one to the finals, one won it all).
3 outright conference titles, 4 Sweet 16's, one Final Four, no NCAA visits to campus. I'll take that over Buzz or KO. Buzz inherited a BMW X5 at MU, Crean inherited a Ford Escort.
Crean's a good A to B guy. He can come in, get some recruits and cheerlead the program to the next level. He's not a great Xs and Os guy and has too many "off years" recruiting wise so he ends up with some seasons that look like crap.
Buzz is a better all around coach IMO. He can recruit (though I think he focuses too much on "switchables" type), and a better Xs and Os guy than Crean. He had some down years as well, but besides his last year, his teams played hard.
I think he gets A&M a lot further in the SEC than Crean gets Georgia.
-
Eloquently put, Robespierre.
Thanks, David Duke.
-
My biggest concern about Wojo is he reminds me of Crean as a coach. Vanilla. I like the A to B image. Unable to make a team more than the sum of it's parts. Unbalanced rosters.
Crean is decent. Can build a program. Can't get it to an elite level without one of the top players of all time. Can't hold Buzz's clipboard from a coaching standpoint.
Can Wojo be more?
-
My biggest concern about Wojo is he reminds me of Crean as a coach. Vanilla. I like the A to B image. Unable to make a team more than the sum of it's parts. Unbalanced rosters.
Crean is decent. Can build a program. Can't get it to an elite level without one of the top players of all time. Can't hold Buzz's clipboard from a coaching standpoint.
Can Wojo be more?
Yep. Full agreement here. I find myself having similar frustrations from a coaching standpoint with Wojo as I did with Crean. Wojo isn't a bad coach. I would even say he's a "good" coach. But is he any better than that? Not yet.
-
Have you seen the current roster????
(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Howard_Markus_0_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Bailey_Brendan_1_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Anim_Sacar_2_MUMB_2019S_71.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/John_Theo_4_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Elliott_Greg_5_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Torrence_Symir_10_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/16/Akanno_Dexter_12_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/20/Eke_Ike_13_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Cain_Jamal_23_MUMB_2019S_71.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/McEwen_Koby_25_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Morrow_Ed_30_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/16/Johnson_Jayce_34_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)
Bow ties are back!
-
Indiana fans were tired of anyone who was not Bob Knight. You also have to take into account the program he inherited at MU (14-15, Krunti Hester as the only recruit) and what he inherited at Indiana (1 returning player who has actually scored in a game, a walk-on, extremely limited off-campus recruiting due to probation) when taking into account his records. And while he lost in the Sweet 16, each time that team went on to the Final Four (one to the finals, one won it all).
3 outright conference titles, 4 Sweet 16's, one Final Four, no NCAA visits to campus. I'll take that over Buzz or KO. Buzz inherited a BMW X5 at MU, Crean inherited a Ford Escort.
Billy sure has his finger on the pulse of IU, wonder if he's been banned from Peegs too?
-
Have you seen the current roster????
(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Howard_Markus_0_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Bailey_Brendan_1_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Anim_Sacar_2_MUMB_2019S_71.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/John_Theo_4_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Elliott_Greg_5_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Torrence_Symir_10_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/16/Akanno_Dexter_12_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/20/Eke_Ike_13_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Cain_Jamal_23_MUMB_2019S_71.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/McEwen_Koby_25_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/19/Morrow_Ed_30_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)(https://gomarquette.com/images/2019/8/16/Johnson_Jayce_34_MUMB_2019S.jpg?width=80)
Photoshopped, hey?
-
Crean wasn't consistent. The Cowboy was.
O'Neill had us headed for greatness, had he held his ego and his mouth in check. Maybe he could have caught lightening in a bottle, like the Tanned One did. Maybe not. But I really believe he turned us back in the direction we needed to go.
No O'Neill. We're Loyola of Chicago forever and we're playing UWM twice a year.
How was the cowboy consistent his last year?
-
I'm not a Crean hater but this is lunacy. Maybe if Crean was the AD. He peaked at Marquette and thats why he left. He knew it. He made a FF with probably the best player in program history and a consensus top 20-25 player in NBA history. He didn't sniff those heights again in 4 years after.
Buzz made 3 straight S16s, was a terrible shooting game away from the F4 in 2013. He was set up to continue that path before he quit on the program.
Crean helped transform the program but leveraging lightning in a bottle into a BEast invite. He's a MU legend for that alone. But there is way less what-if to him than Buzz. We got 4 years off backside relative decline from his peak to assess that. Both parties were better off with his parting in the long run.
Buzz’s first year, if Crean stays team would have been even better in my opinion. Tyshawn Taylor would be at Marquette and DJ’s backup. DJ’s injury becomes more manageable problem at the end, load management, etc, but he wanted no part of Buzz and left. That hurt and people don’t recognize that impact. So I disagree with your peak statement, that last team of his would have been off the charts.
As for IU, those type of jobs don’t come around very often and he went for it. He won two Big Ten titles, three Sweet 16’s, got to number 1. Won more Big Ten titles than any IU coach last twenty years and I believe during his tenure only Izzo has more...have to double check that. IU fans demanded Archie get fired last year, they are more unhinges then our own so I don’t see their nonsense the last 20 years as anything other than typical IU fandom craziness. They (we ... I am an IU alum, too) haven’t been a force since Knight’s 4 or 5 years before Knight left and had one major crapshoot run in the 20 years since. Maybe Archie is the guy, but they already want his head.
-
IBTL
-
Hanging at the Al?
This might be the first thread that could be moved from the Superbar.
I prefer it stay around for all to see Mutaman’s racial slur and accusation.
-
Billy sure has his finger on the pulse of IU, wonder if he's been banned from Peegs too?
Fail. You simply are wrong on every level here, but comical to watch.
-
Buzz’s first year, if Crean stays team would have been even better in my opinion. Tyshawn Taylor would be at Marquette and DJ’s backup. DJ’s injury becomes more manageable problem at the end, load management, etc, but he wanted no part of Buzz and left. That hurt and people don’t recognize that impact. So I disagree with your peak statement, that last team of his would have been off the charts.
Who's taking Butler's nearly 20 mpg?
-
Who's taking Butler's nearly 20 mpg?
Wes Matthews doesn't explode and become 2nd team All-BE if Crean stays either. He said as much himself.
No Butler, a less productive Matthews. They would have been better at PG after DJ went down, but he was playing 30+ minutes all year. So Taylor would have been splitting time with Acker and then thrust into a critical role at the end of the season after limited run. He played plenty his first year at KU, he wasn't a world beater/difference maker. I'm not seeing an "off the charts" team
-
Maybe Crean gives in to Mbakwe's salary request.
-
Wes Matthews doesn't explode and become 2nd team All-BE if Crean stays either. He said as much himself.
No Butler, a less productive Matthews. They would have been better at PG after DJ went down, but he was playing 30+ minutes all year. So Taylor would have been splitting time with Acker and then thrust into a critical role at the end of the season after limited run. He played plenty his first year at KU, he wasn't a world beater/difference maker. I'm not seeing an "off the charts" team
I do mostly agree that we were better without Crean, but we were actually better on Kenpom in Crean's last year than in Buzz's first. To be fair, I don't know how much our ranking dropped the last 6 games.
-
Wes Matthews doesn't explode and become 2nd team All-BE if Crean stays either. He said as much himself.team
Where did Wes say this?
-
Where did Wes say this?
In his Senior Day speech, he gave credit to Buzz for unleashing him, or removing the chains. Something like that. Basically acknowledging he got attention and focus in the offense he hadnt prior in Crean's system
-
I prefer it stay around for all to see Mutaman’s racial slur and accusation.
I may have some bad qualities but one things for sure, if I ever get expelled from Scoop for being an pretty boy, I will go quietly- won't see me get down on my hands and knees begging to be taken back. Won't see me try to weasel my way back on by posting under phony names. But that's just me.
-
I may have some bad qualities but one things for sure, if I ever get expelled from Scoop for being an pretty boy, I will go quietly- won't see me get down on my hands and knees begging to be taken back. Won't see me try to weasel my way back on by posting under phony names. But that's just me.
noooooo $hit ...security!!
-
Hanging at the Al?
This might be the first thread that could be moved from the Superbar.
This ...except for some to be expected insult hurling this review of MU coaches merits a rare move from Superbar to Hangin' at the Al
-
Billy sure has his finger on the pulse of IU, wonder if he's been banned from Peegs too?
What’s Peegs? I hope I haven’t been banned from a place I’ve never gone. I’ve on,y been banned anywhere for trying to back half eaten fruit.
-
Tyshawn Taylor would be at Marquette but he wanted no part of Buzz and left.
This is a lie and you know it's a lie.
First, Taylor never "left". He was never here. He signed a letter of intent with us when his admitted dream school didn't offer (they were out of scholarships). Crean left in the spring and we released Taylor. Kansas (the school he always wanted) now had a scholarship available so he went where he always wanted to go. Had zero, nothing, nada to do with "wanting no part of Buzz". On one hand, you're the biggest moralizer on Scoop. On the other, you constantly tell lies that you know are lies. Cura Personalis, my ass.
-
This is a lie and you know it's a lie.
First, Taylor never "left". He was never here. He signed a letter of intent with us when his admitted dream school didn't offer (they were out of scholarships). Crean left in the spring and we released Taylor. Kansas (the school he always wanted) now had a scholarship available so he went where he always wanted to go. Had zero, nothing, nada to do with "wanting no part of Buzz". On one hand, your the biggest moralizer on Scoop. On the other, you constantly tell lies that you know are lies. Cura Personalis, my ass.
Buzz was the main recruiter on Taylor. Was it Tyshawn that went up to Buzz in the stands when both played at the same tournament site?
-
My biggest concern about Wojo is he reminds me of Crean as a coach. Vanilla. I like the A to B image. Unable to make a team more than the sum of it's parts. Unbalanced rosters.
Crean is decent. Can build a program. Can't get it to an elite level without one of the top players of all time. Can't hold Buzz's clipboard from a coaching standpoint.
Can Wojo be more?
Good analysis.
Can Wojo be more? This year (on the floor and in recruiting) will go a long way toward answering the question.
-
Wes Matthews doesn't explode and become 2nd team All-BE if Crean stays either. He said as much himself.
No Butler, a less productive Matthews. They would have been better at PG after DJ went down, but he was playing 30+ minutes all year. So Taylor would have been splitting time with Acker and then thrust into a critical role at the end of the season after limited run. He played plenty his first year at KU, he wasn't a world beater/difference maker. I'm not seeing an "off the charts" team
No one knows, and Wes also said plenty of positive things about Crean over the years....the Buzz love birds so over dramatize that. TT didn’t have to be a world beater that year at KU and certainly not at MU either... we needed a backup point guard and when our PG went down that was a killer. When DJ went down, it was over. Period. I like my chances with a future NBA PG then what we had. We will never know how it turns out.
-
Buzz was the main recruiter on Taylor. Was it Tyshawn that went up to Buzz in the stands when both played at the same tournament site?
Of course - but Chico has a false narrative he's selling - so any lie that bolsters it is embraced wholeheartedly. It's how the man rolls.
-
This is a lie and you know it's a lie.
First, Taylor never "left". He was never here. He signed a letter of intent with us when his admitted dream school didn't offer (they were out of scholarships). Crean left in the spring and we released Taylor. Kansas (the school he always wanted) now had a scholarship available so he went where he always wanted to go. Had zero, nothing, nada to do with "wanting no part of Buzz". On one hand, you're the biggest moralizer on Scoop. On the other, you constantly tell lies that you know are lies. Cura Personalis, my ass.
He chose not to come to MU and his coach, Hurley, politely said they didn’t know much about Buzz, etc. He ended up meeting Buzz and still decided to leave. Sorry, no lie. He committed to play for MU...you can get cute and say he was never here, but he would have been if Crean didn’t leave. Thus, TT made a choice not to stay because Buzz was the coach. I’m going to guess per Mutaman it was because TT was racist or something.
Taylor wants out. http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/04/tyshawn-taylor-wants-out.html
-
Buzz was the main recruiter on Taylor. Was it Tyshawn that went up to Buzz in the stands when both played at the same tournament site?
That is true, but Hurley also said TT wanted release in the event they didn’t like the hire. MU hired Buzz, they met again and TT wanted out. Many articles to support this with quotes from those involved....Lenny calls these lies. So cute.
-
This is a lie and you know it's a lie.
First, Taylor never "left". He was never here. He signed a letter of intent with us when his admitted dream school didn't offer (they were out of scholarships). Crean left in the spring and we released Taylor. Kansas (the school he always wanted) now had a scholarship available so he went where he always wanted to go. Had zero, nothing, nada to do with "wanting no part of Buzz". On one hand, you're the biggest moralizer on Scoop. On the other, you constantly tell lies that you know are lies. Cura Personalis, my ass.
Bingo. The big joke re Taylor was that Bobby Hurley was on the phone to marquette demanding that Taylor be released from his scholarship/letter before the Marquette players even heard the news re Crean's departure.
-
No one knows, and Wes also said plenty of positive things about Crean over the years....the Buzz love birds so over dramatize that.
Really? I've honestly never seen Crean (by name anyway) mentioned by Wesley.
He was crystal clear, however, of what he thought of him as he concluded his MU career. Senior Day, in front of 18,000+ fans and media, Wesley simultaneously ripped the guy who recruited him and coached him for 3 years and tipped his hat to Buzz, his coach for but one season. When he publicly celebrated Buzz's removal of the chains he'd worn for the three previous years, his opinion of both men was evident. No over dramatization. Just fact.
-
No over dramatization. Just fact.
This is where you made your big mistake. Facts are meaningless in Chicos' world.
-
That is true, but Hurley also said TT wanted release in the event they didn’t like the hire. MU hired Buzz, they met again and TT wanted out. Many articles to support this with quotes from those involved....Lenny calls these lies. So cute.
Please tell me you're not this dumb. Taylor couldn't believe his good fortune when Crean left. Kansas had an opening and were calling. Ty and Hurley knew immediately that Ty was going to KU. Any meeting and/or concern about who the coach was was PR to make the decision seem to be one thought about long and hard by player and coach. Smokescreen, everybody with a brain knew it.
-
Please tell me you're not this dumb. Taylor couldn't believe his good fortune when Crean left. Kansas had an opening and were calling. Ty and Hurley knew immediately that Ty was going to KU. Any meeting and/or concern about who the coach was was PR to make the decision seem to be one thought about long and hard by player and coach. Smokescreen, everybody with a brain knew it.
So his mom was lying? Who is the dumb one?
“A lot of people probably didn’t think we would be in this situation,” said Taylor, a 6-foot-3 freshman guard out of Hoboken, N.J.
After leading St. Anthony High through an undefeated state championship season as a senior, Taylor was prepared to attend Marquette. But following a workout on April 1, 2008, a friend told Taylor that coach Tom Crean had left Marquette to take the coaching job at Indiana.
“It was like a disaster,” said Jeanell Taylor, Tyshawn’s mother. “It was just a deep hurting feeling of, ‘OK, now what am I going to do?’”
-
Really? I've honestly never seen Crean (by name anyway) mentioned by Wesley.
He was crystal clear, however, of what he thought of him as he concluded his MU career. Senior Day, in front of 18,000+ fans and media, Wesley simultaneously ripped the guy who recruited him and coached him for 3 years and tipped his hat to Buzz, his coach for but one season. When he publicly celebrated Buzz's removal of the chains he'd worn for the three previous years, his opinion of both men was evident. No over dramatization. Just fact.
You make it sound as if that was the only fact....of course at the 100th season celebration when Buzz didn’t show and Crean and Wes did....
At any rate, so you never heard him mention him by name....have you tried Google....I can show you how to use it and then you can say wow, Wes actually did mention Crean publicly and in a positive manner. So did Novak, Wade, McNeal, etc. But it’s ok, I know he’s not your guy.
-
Point plankin, y'all.
-
You make it sound as if that was the only fact....of course at the 100th season celebration when Buzz didn’t show and Crean and Wes did....
At any rate, so you never heard him mention him by name....have you tried Google....I can show you how to use it and the. You can say wow, Wes actually did mention Crean publicly and in a positive manner.
By all means produce the glowing quotes by Wes. You didn't hesitate to produce a meaningless one from Ty Taylor's Mom. LOL.
-
Methinks some memories from an event more than a decade old are being influenced by present agendas.
Source: Science.
-
By all means produce the glowing quotes by Wes. You didn't hesitate to produce a meaningless one from Ty Taylor's Mom. LOL.
Meaningless? It completely destroys your fairy tale. The kid was hurting, he was going to play for MU and felt jilted....but I’m sure the mom was lying.
No, I am not going to find the quotes for you....it is much more fun watching you do it. But a few bread crumbs will suggest you start in 2017 with a Mavericks article and you can go from there for the other ones. Nighty night
-
Methinks some memories from an event more than a decade old are being influenced by present agendas.
Source: Science.
It’s written in Mark Strotman’s write up of Senior Day at the time. It’s not all just based on memory. I’ll find a link to it if you really need the proof.
And again, I’m not a Crean hater, nor do I think Wes hates/hated him. But he did feel he was underutilized and Buzz’s change in offense sprung him free. That’s factual. So is him specifically calling that out. And that’s a large part of that season that doesn’t happen if Crean stays in charge
-
Methinks some memories from an event more than a decade old are being influenced by present agendas.
Source: Science.
Gee ya think? Cheeks and Lennys are at it again. Round 7,839,098.
They can't see to help it.
-
It’s written in Mark Strotman’s write up of Senior Day at the time. It’s not all just based on memory. I’ll find a link to it if you really need the proof
OK.
-
I also remember Wes thanking Buzz for “unleashing him”. I don’t remember if it was senior night or the awards banquet but he definitely said that. He didn’t mention Crean directly but it was pretty clearly directed at him.
-
It’s written in Mark Strotman’s write up of Senior Day at the time. It’s not all just based on memory. I’ll find a link to it if you really need the proof.
And again, I’m not a Crean hater, nor do I think Wes hates/hated him. But he did feel he was underutilized and Buzz’s change in offense sprung him free. That’s factual. So is him specifically calling that out. And that’s a large part of that season that doesn’t happen if Crean stays in charge
Thanks Wags. Methinks that some memories are just recalling facts that really happened. Others....
-
Here is the Taylor connection to the Hurleys and Joe Dooley who recruited him at Kansas. Perhaps if TT was so in love with CTC, he could have followed Nick Williams to Bloomington? If only the Hurleys didn’t get in the way.
https://www.theday.com/article/20181015/SPORT07/181019592
As Jerel said recently, perhaps these players appreciated both coaches? I too was in KC when Taylor embraced Buzz and then TT sat with him all game.
-
Isn't it possible that both Crean and Buzz were good for Marquette during their times at our beloved alma mater?
As a guy who has been a big Wojo supporter but whose confidence in Wojo was shaken some by Hausershima, I hope to one day be talking about how good Wojo is/was for Marquette, too.
With very few exceptions, coaches move on. I think some forget that even Al tried to leave for the Bucks ... and if the same situation happened in this era, he would have ... and because of that he wouldn't be Saint Al today.
-
The Taylors and Hurley were opportunistic...as soon as they saw an opening they pounced on it. We could have hired Coach K and they would have pushed to get to Kansas.
How did Buzz handle losing a major recruit, he went to 5 straight NCAAs.
Meanwhile TC was ducking plants, needlessly throwing kids off his team to buy himself time and sadly losing in the S16 to deprive us of the greatest E8 game of all time.
-
The Taylors and Hurley were opportunistic...as soon as they saw an opening they pounced on it.
This is absolutely correct.
-
Isn't it possible that both Crean and Buzz were good for Marquette...
That's crazy talk. How and the hell can we wring a six-page argument out of that. Who am I kidding? We can find a way.
-
That's crazy talk. How and the hell can we wring a six-page argument out of that. Who am I kidding? We can find a way.
I would argue that Buzz deserves 56.4% of the credit, and Tom Crean only 43.6% of the credit.
Fight me.
-
I would argue that Buzz deserves 56.4% of the credit, and Tom Crean only 43.6% of the credit.
Fight me.
You're an idiot. I've got Buzz at 46.3%, Crean at 42.8% and dumb luck at 10.9%.
-
I also remember Wes thanking Buzz for “unleashing him”. I don’t remember if it was senior night or the awards banquet but he definitely said that. He didn’t mention Crean directly but it was pretty clearly directed at him.
I don't doubt Wes had nice things to say about his coach on Senior Day. That would be, you know, absolutely normal.
I very much doubt whatever he said was a swipe at his previous coach, no matter how much some here wish it to be because it fits their 2019 narrative.
-
Great speeches in Marquette Senior Day History:
In 1995 Tony Miller went out of his way to thank University of Tennessee head coach, Kevin O'Neill.
In 2009 Wesley Matthews went out of his way thank Buzz for "unleashing" him.
Do the math.
-
I don't doubt Wes had nice things to say about his coach on Senior Day. That would be, you know, absolutely normal.
I very much doubt whatever he said was a swipe at his previous coach, no matter how much some here wish it to be because it fits their 2019 narrative.
I prefer Crean over Buzz so this would hurt my narrative if anything.
-
Great speeches in Marquette Senior Day History:
In 1995 Tony Miller went out of his way to thank University of Tennessee head coach, Kevin O'Neill.
In 2009 Wesley Matthews went out of his way thank Buzz for "unleashing" him.
Do the math.
1995+2009 = 4004
-
OK.
https://strotty.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/nba-draft-player-preview-marquettes-wesley-matthews/
-
I’m shocked a college athlete might not love a coach that left the school the year before his senior year.
-
Guess I better change my name to unleashwes
-
The Taylors and Hurley were opportunistic...as soon as they saw an opening they pounced on it. We could have hired Coach K and they would have pushed to get to Kansas.
How did Buzz handle losing a major recruit, he went to 5 straight NCAAs.
Meanwhile TC was ducking plants, needlessly throwing kids off his team to buy himself time and sadly losing in the S16 to deprive us of the greatest E8 game of all time.
it was actually the secretary who ducked the plant and he was definitely not "needlessly" throwing kids off the trainwreck of the team that he inherited from Sampson. Meanwhile, Buzz was succeeding with a team and program he inherited from Crean.
-
Yeah, what Crean did at IU was pretty much what most coaches do. Was Scott Christopherson "needlessly" thrown off by Buzz? Todd Mayo by Wojo?
-
I’m shocked a college athlete might not love a coach that left the school the year before his senior year.
If the player is butt hurt over his coach leaving you would have a point.
Wesley was GRATEFUL that his coach left, and grateful that the new guy allowed him to be an integral part of the offense.
-
I prefer Crean over Buzz so this would hurt my narrative if anything.
I was at the game. It was clear to Crean fans and non fans around me that Wes took a swipe at TC. People who refuse to connect the most obvious of dots are selecting a narrative they prefer rather than dealing with the facts.
-
If the player is butt hurt over his coach leaving you would have a point.
Wesley was GRATEFUL that his coach left, and grateful that the new guy allowed him to be an integral part of the offense.
I'm glad you had that discussion with Wes to clear that up. I was wondering how the guy he was so GRATEFUL to see go was able to convince him 1) to come play for him at Marquette and 2) to stick around and play for him for 3 seasons. I guess my question still isn't answered as he was so GRATEFUL, but at least I know he was GRATEFUL.
-
I'm glad you had that discussion with Wes to clear that up. I was wondering how the guy he was so GRATEFUL to see go was able to convince him 1) to come play for him at Marquette and 2) to stick around and play for him for 3 seasons. I guess my question still isn't answered as he was so GRATEFUL, but at least I know he was GRATEFUL.
Either you didn't hear Wes's senior day speech or you didn't understand it.
-
Either you didn't hear Wes's senior day speech or you didn't understand it.
As I said, I'm shocked a college athlete would take a swipe at a coach that up and left his team going into his senior year.
If he hated Crean that much, he'd have been making a senior night speech at anywhere but Marquette.
-
As I said, I'm shocked a college athlete would take a swipe at a coach that up and left his team going into his senior year.
If he hated Crean that much, he'd have been making a senior night speech at anywhere but Marquette.
He didn't take a swipe at him for leaving, he basically thanked him for leaving.
I never said he hated Crean, but he did feel he was under utilized in his offense. Buzz agreed, retooled things and took shots away from a bad shooter and gave them to a good one. Dom understood, Wes and Marquette thrived.
-
Thanks, David Duke.
The Young Mutaman honing his art as a Tamer of The West and Champion of Manifest Destiny
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/0b/9a/48/0b9a484acdb016dd0e008743dbaa7d48.jpg)
"Pale Face with forked tongue make heap big wampum for many moons"
(https://i.huffpost.com/gen/1676591/thumbs/o-WINCHESTER-570.jpg?1)
Mutaman's Motto: "The only good Indian is a dead Indian!"
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Woundedknee1891.jpg)
More Great Cinema from "The Mutaman Collection: Cavalcades in Genocide"
(http://images.45spaces.com/f/wes/none-the-indian-fighter-wes.jpg)
From the Mutaman Files: "Apache"
(http://www.gstatic.com/tv/thumb/v22vodart/2369/p2369_v_v8_ad.jpg)
From the "Mutaman Collection: The Squaw as Saucy Temptress"
(https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/poster/8/10/break/images/artworkimages/medium/1/apache-woman-western-movie-poster-long-shot.jpg)
-
Lots of triggered folks in here
-
Well this is getting locked now.
-
Well this is getting locked now.
Damn. Was really hoping this would be the first thread to move the other way.
-
Damn. Was really hoping this would be the first thread to move the other way.
Optimistic.
-
it was actually the secretary who ducked the plant and he was definitely not "needlessly" throwing kids off the trainwreck of the team that he inherited from Sampson. Meanwhile, Buzz was succeeding with a team and program he inherited from Crean.
Like Jordan Crawford? Or Armon Bassett? Or DeAndre Thomas? Seemed like TC was intent to burn Indiana to the ground rather than go in a win asap.
-
NM
-
Damn. Was really hoping this would be the first thread to move the other way.
Wait a minute -- one way or another?
(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/QYEDNXaNnm5hK/giphy.gif)
-
Like Jordan Crawford? Or Armon Bassett? Or DeAndre Thomas? Seemed like TC was intent to burn Indiana to the ground rather than go in a win asap.
sometimes guys earn their walking papers.
-
sometimes guys earn their walking papers.
TC did at Indiana, a'ina?
-
Here is the Taylor connection to the Hurleys and Joe Dooley who recruited him at Kansas. Perhaps if TT was so in love with CTC, he could have followed Nick Williams to Bloomington? If only the Hurleys didn’t get in the way.
https://www.theday.com/article/20181015/SPORT07/181019592
As Jerel said recently, perhaps these players appreciated both coaches? I too was in KC when Taylor embraced Buzz and then TT sat with him all game.
His mom was lying and TT loved KU so much he decided not to take his visit and canceled it, only to commit there more than 6 months later after Crean left (his mom apparently lied) and all was good.
LOL
Yes, we all know what Wes said on grad day. I know I said some things on grad day when I was 22. We also know what else Wes said with a simple search of Google. We also know what Wade said and still says...or Diener, Novak, McNeal, etc. Yup, some coaches piss off their players. Some coaches are loved by them. And sometimes, players don’t like their coaches for a time and years later when they mature and grow up, they begin to understand and change their tune.
-
This is absolutely correct.
Yup, that’s why his mom was lying apparently and why it took them 4 weeks to commit. Look, it worked out great for him. Buzz recruited him, and he committed to MU to play for Crean and Marquette. Crean left, mom said what she did (apparently lying), Hurley asked for release. MU says you need to meet with our new head coach. That ends up being Buzz, who TT already knew well and he said no thanks. Went to KU.
Worked well for him and unfortunately was a big missing piece for us that first year with DJ’s injury.
-
His mom was lying and TT loved KU so much he decided not to take his visit and canceled it, only to commit there more than 6 months later after Crean left (his mom apparently lied) and all was good.
LOL
Yes, we all know what Wes said on grad day. I know I said some things on grad day when I was 22. We also know what else Wes said with a simple search of Google. We also know what Wade said and still says...or Diener, Novak, McNeal, etc. Yup, some coaches piss off their players. Some coaches are loved by them. And sometimes, players don’t like their coaches for a time and years later when they mature and grow up, they begin to understand and change their tune.
Cheeks is the Hermie of the Taylor family. Mr. Insider of their family workings. Thanks for the 911.
You do remember a Hurley working at CTC's camp during TT's recruitment, right?
-
Cheeks is the Hermie of the Taylor family. Mr. Insider of their family workings. Thanks for the 911.
You do remember a Hurley working at CTC's camp during TT's recruitment, right?
I simply take the woman at her word...why would she lie and so quickly after incident?
Why would the response not be something like this
“He will be fine, KU and other schools are after my son anyway and he wanted to go there anyway.”
“This is a blessing in disguise, my son will be fine and we have already been contacted by other schools”
Etc
Instead, it was nothing of the kind. No relief, no excitement, but rather concern....so weird for a kid that had a foot already out the door and was just waiting for this to happen...so weird...eh. LOL
-
I simply take the woman at her word...why would she lie and so quickly after incident?
Why would the response not be something like this
“He will be fine, KU and other schools are after my son anyway and he wanted to go there anyway.”
“This is a blessing in disguise, my son will be fine and we have already been contacted by other schools”
Etc
Instead, it was nothing of the kind. No relief, no excitement, but rather concern....so weird for a kid that had a foot already out the door and was just waiting for this to happen...so weird...eh. LOL
Was Mom the one who got the get out of jail free card and a ticket to Lawrence? She may have been confused and freaking a bit but that doesn't mean Ty and Hurley weren't doing cartwheels.
BTW, any idea why Ty didn't give Crean the courtesy of a meeting regarding blue blood Indiana? I mean, being as he was so heartbroken over TC leaving MU maybe Ty could have "healed" in Bloomington. Nick Williams did. For a year, anyway. LOL.
That's it from me in this thread. I've had it with your irrelevancies, obfuscations and outright lies. I'll let Doc, Titan, MU 12, J Wags, Lens and the the rest of the group who know you're full of sh*t in this discussion take it from here.
-
Was Mom the one who got the get out of jail free card and a ticket to Lawrence? She may have been confused and freaking a bit but that doesn't mean Ty and Hurley weren't doing cartwheels.
BTW, any idea why Ty didn't give Crean the courtesy of a meeting regarding blue blood Indiana? I mean, being as he was so heartbroken over TC leaving MU maybe Ty could have "healed" in Bloomington. Nick Williams did. For a year, anyway. LOL.
That's it from me in this thread. I've had it with your irrelevancies, obfuscations and outright lies. I'll let Doc, Titan, MU 12, J Wags, Lens and the the rest of the group who know you're full of sh*t in this discussion take it from here.
Really? So again mom is lying is the answer. Occam’s razor. He knew Buzz, recruited by Buzz, MU said no release unless you meet with Buzz...that happened....good bye....not playing for Buzz.
As for IU and TT, are you serious. They were facing major NCAA punishment potentially, a gutting of the roster....gee, why wouldn’t you want to go there for a rebuild and potentially never be able to go to the tournament not knowing what the NCAA verdict was going to be.
Please Lenny, use your brain.
-
Really? So again mom is lying is the answer. Occam’s razor. He knew Buzz, recruited by Buzz, MU said no release unless you meet with Buzz...that happened....good bye....not playing for Buzz.
As for IU and TT, are you serious. They were facing major NCAA punishment potentially, a gutting of the roster....gee, why wouldn’t you want to go there for a rebuild and potentially never be able to go to the tournament not knowing what the NCAA verdict was going to be.
Please Lenny, use your brain.
TT was going to Kansas after the opportunity presented itself, I agree. If you remember, Taylor wasn’t even a starter on his high school team but rose up the rankings on that super high school team. And KU had late openings.
Now, in terms of following CTC, he had playing time to sell. MU recruits Nick Williams (signed and released), Bobby Copabianco, Maurice Creek and Luke Fischer all followed Crean to Bloomington despite a cloud or known punishments (btw, did CTC refund part of his MU salary for recruiting them to IU?). So, if Taylor’s mom was that upset with Crean for leaving her son high and dry, then the known Hurley connection helped soothe her anxiety with the safe network of Dooley and Self at Kansas. As a parent, I think we can all see why she was so upset with Crean, and how she could trust her son’s high school coach.
-
https://strotty.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/nba-draft-player-preview-marquettes-wesley-matthews/
Respectfully, this is different from your post that started this back-and-forth.
-
That's it from me in this thread. I've had it with your irrelevancies, obfuscations and outright lies. I'll let Doc, Titan, MU 12, J Wags, Lens and the the rest of the group who know you're full of sh*t in this discussion take it from here.
A smart sentiment. For the life of me, I can’t understand how otherwise smart posters allow themselves to be dragged down the rabbit hole with this kook.
Not a criticism of you, Lenny, as I have done the same in the past. No more, though.
-
A smart sentiment. For the life of me, I can’t understand how otherwise smart posters allow themselves to be dragged down the rabbit hole with this kook.
Not a criticism of you, Lenny, as I have done the same in the past. No more, though.
When are you finally moving to Canada....what do you have against Mexico again?
-
TT was going to Kansas after the opportunity presented itself, I agree. If you remember, Taylor wasn’t even a starter on his high school team but rose up the rankings on that super high school team. And KU had late openings.
Now, in terms of following CTC, he had playing time to sell. MU recruits Nick Williams (signed and released), Bobby Copabianco, Maurice Creek and Luke Fischer all followed Crean to Bloomington despite a cloud or known punishments (btw, did CTC refund part of his MU salary for recruiting them to IU?). So, if Taylor’s mom was that upset with Crean for leaving her son high and dry, then the known Hurley connection helped soothe her anxiety with the safe network of Dooley and Self at Kansas. As a parent, I think we can all see why she was so upset with Crean, and how she could trust her son’s high school coach.
We have some agreement here, but unfortunately this isn’t what some here have been saying....including those claiming lies and when shown how wrong he is he bails. Some here in the past have even suggested TT was never going to set foot on MU’s campus, which is total crap.
Where I disagree with you is on the playing time to sell...you are not wrong, he had it to sell but if a program may be facing ncaa penalties a player is also going to weigh team success, chance to play in post season, etc.
Taylor got to play major minutes at KU....23 minutes per game as a freshman. He would unlikely get no more at IU and not have to worry about NCAA sanctions.
-
(btw, did CTC refund part of his MU salary for recruiting them to IU?).
He did. The Arrogant A$$wipe of Athens topped up his check for the Marquette soccer stadium.
-
TC cut the same check to MU that Buzz cut to UNO when he pulled Fulce to Milwaukee.
-
TC cut the same check to MU that Buzz cut to UNO when he pulled Fulce to Milwaukee.
Joe Fulce committed to Tom Crean. MU paid a buy-out for an assistant coach?
I know Buzz sued UNO for breach in 2007 and eventually UNO counter-sued. Maybe Strong or someone helped with an eventual settlement. Not sure...but I would be surprised if MU paid directly for an assistant.
Anyone know if VT paid MU or if MU waived the buy-out? IIRC, MU greatly reduced it.
-
TC cut the same check to MU that Buzz cut to UNO when he pulled Fulce to Milwaukee.
I think Buzz then recut that check back to MU for stealing recruits that were going to MU but ended up at VPI.
-
Respectfully, this is different from your post that started this back-and-forth.
It is? How? I never said he trashed Crean? I literally said he broke out cause of Buzz and that personally called that out/acknowledged that. If it wasn’t a matter of a change Buzz made, then he would have acknowledged both Crean and Buzz in his development. This discussion took on a great life after my initial comment, but I personally never said anything more than Wes’ senior year breakout being cause of Buzz, and i don’t see how I’ve presented anything but. I’m not speaking for anyone else in this discussion. Unless you want to get into “He didn’t SPECIFICALLY say that, so we can’t interpret his words”
-
It is? How? I never said he trashed Crean? I literally said he broke out cause of Buzz and that personally called that out/acknowledged that. If it wasn’t a matter of a change Buzz made, then he would have acknowledged both Crean and Buzz in his development. This discussion took on a great life after my initial comment, but I personally never said anything more than Wes’ senior year breakout being cause of Buzz, and i don’t see how I’ve presented anything but. I’m not speaking for anyone else in this discussion. Unless you want to get into “He didn’t SPECIFICALLY say that, so we can’t interpret his words”
"Wes Matthews doesn't explode and become 2nd team All-BE if Crean stays either. He said as much himself."
Wes didn't say this.
-
"Wes Matthews doesn't explode and become 2nd team All-BE if Crean stays either. He said as much himself."
Wes didn't say this.
Seriously man? I clarified and pointed to what he said in a later post. I’ll be more succinct for the court next time, Counselor ::)
-
Well this is getting locked now.
If only we were so lucky
-
Wes' situation was interesting... the pro-style sets Crean ran parked him in the corner too much, but he had to learn multiple positions. Buzz took advantage of his size, and helped get him into more advantageous offensive positions.
His senior year got him noticed, but I think the knowledge gained in the prior three helped him stick in the league.
-
Wes' situation was interesting... the pro-style sets Crean ran parked him in the corner too much, but he had to learn multiple positions. Buzz took advantage of his size, and helped get him into more advantageous offensive positions.
His senior year got him noticed, but I think the knowledge gained in the prior three helped him stick in the league.
Excellent observation, and in Wes’s quotes about Crean in 2017 he acknowledged the toughness, etc that Crean as a coach brought him. Logic would dictate he got good coaching from both staffs and benefitted from them both.