De ja vu - was arguing with Auburn fans on how stupid it would be to fire pearl

[auburnmarquette]

With the fans here in Auburn greet the returning Final 4 team late tonight, I couldn't help remember how similar my arguments with Marquette fans who want to get rid of Wojo are to my discussions with AU fans two years ago.

At that point Pearl was 44-54 in his three years since returning from his suspension to coach Auburn, and like at Marquette now there was a vocal minority sure getting rid of him was the solution. As insane as I thought they were in pointing out what Pearl was putting in place and the obvious path he was on to win. The clammering got so loud he almost was fired and senior officials had to settle in for him. The idiots would have missed last year's sec regular season title which could have been a deep run except for a late season injury, but they keep complaining even after last season that the late season collapse and embarrassing blow out loss in the NCAA proved their point and Pearl couldn't win at Auburn. Sound familiar?

That being said, the Auburn anti-Pearl people at least had a much better case than the Marquette anti-Wojo people. There is no 44-54 start. Wojo is not in one of the 5 conferences or the old big East that could make the case to anyone to come here. He is at the school that buzz left because he didn't think he could win in the new big East and would win faster with a low tier acc team. Wojo came to the school that Bennet and others passed on and in compelling fashion said the difference between Marquette and Duke was that Duke kept stability for years. The critics ripped crean for apparently always looked at other openings, and now seem to want to chase away the coach that seems the opposite - and critics are ripping on him the year before he returns top 10 talent.

I'm glad the naysayers at Auburn failed, and hope the same mentality marquette that left us with 2 sweet 16s in 31 years loses out. I'll give Wojo 15 years - the program may not get off the mat again if Wojo is chased off.

[auburnmarquette]

And for all the winers about losing badly against the second best player in the country in Ja - Auburn closed last season by losing to Alabama by 28 in their first sec tourney game, barely beating a Charleston team that was not in the top 100, then losing by 31 to Clemson in a game that wasn't nearly that close.

Clear proof just one year ago that Pearl could not win at Auburn, just like Ja proving Wojo can't coach.

[Norm]

What about all the shenanigans off the court for Pearl and losing two assistant coaches while at Auburn after his own suspension? He's not going anywhere now unless the NCAA steps in again, but how do the fans down there view all that stuff?

[muguru]

And for all the winers about losing badly against the second best player in the country in Ja - Auburn closed last season by losing to Alabama by 28 in their first sec tourney game, barely beating a Charleston team that was not in the top 100, then losing by 31 to Clemson in a game that wasn't nearly that close.

Clear proof just one year ago that Pearl could not win at Auburn, just like Ja proving Wojo can't coach.

Well, you cite all of this how the Anti Wojo people need to relax or whatever. Well I would point you to Chris Beard at Texas Tech..look at his trajectory in three years..it's absolutely perfect, and now I ask you, why the hell can't/couldn't that be done at MU?? That's what I was hoping for.

[4everwarriors]

Wojo is ta Pearl as apples are ta oranges, aina?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Well, you cite all of this how the Anti Wojo people need to relax or whatever. Well I would point you to Chris Beard at Texas Tech..look at his trajectory in three years..it's absolutely perfect, and now I ask you, why the hell can't/couldn't that be done at MU?? That's what I was hoping for.

Again, because Chris Beard is a better coach than Wojo. 

Wojo is ta Pearl as apples are ta oranges, aina?

Thank God for that.

[muguru]

Again, because Chris Beard is a better coach than Wojo. 


Thank God for that.

You hit the nail on the head...I think you made the anti Wojo crowds point with this. That's what I have been saying, so if he isn't that good(which he isn't), why do so many want him to stay??

[WarriorDad]

Wojo is ta Pearl as apples are ta oranges, aina?

One is clean, one is dirty

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You hit the nail on the head...I think you made the anti Wojo crowds point with this. That's what I have been saying, so if he isn't that good(which he isn't), why do so many want him to stay??

Because you don't fire a coach because he isn't as good as one of the best coaches in the game.  That's just a recipe for spinning your wheels constantly.  I would even say that peer comparisons don't matter at all.  You set goals and objectives for the program, and if he meets them, all is good.  And I think he has largely met them to date.

[Silent Verbal]

Five years to judge a coach.  Pearl is in his fifth year at Auburn and has his team in the Final Four.  Wojo ain’t won stink in the same timeframe.  He has a long leash at Marquette, but it can’t, and won’t, be 15 years long.

Also, being loyal to a school is different than staying because you haven’t gotten other job offers.  The program will be fine if Wojo moves to a different job (hard to do when no one’s offering) or is chased off.

[dgies9156]

Brother Bama's last point was the big one. If we chase off Wojo, where will our program be?

Personally, I like the guy. Yes, we choked and we have some work to do in the off-season, but I see his growth as a coach and as a leader and I'm optimistic about next year.

Probably Wojo's biggest liability was having a team that reached the Top 10 in the AP and was consistently a Top 25 team all season. Many of us who viewed this year as an opportunity to return to what we were in the 1970s were sadly disappointed or even angered by what happened at season's end. We discard the fact that we won some we should have lost and, late in the season, were all too quick to point out the losses we should have won.

We need coaching stability. We need tenure with our coaches and a chance for them to build on the success of this past year. Sure, our rebuilding period is over, but the next step is a consistent Top 10 team and we'll get there.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Five years to judge a coach.  Pearl is in his fifth year at Auburn and has his team in the Final Four.  Wojo ain’t won stink in the same timeframe.  He has a long leash at Marquette, but it can’t, and won’t, be 15 years long.

Also, being loyal to a school is different than staying because you haven’t gotten other job offers.  The program will be fine if Wojo moves to a different job (hard to do when no one’s offering) or is chased off.

Pearl also had his associate head coach arrested and charged with corruption and bribery related to a recruiting scandal.  Which could eventually vacate Auburn's Final Four appearance.  And this was after he served a show-cause penalty for recruiting violations and lying to the NCAA.

I'd take Wojo in a second versus Pearl.  Not even a difficult choice.

[Pakuni]

Wojo is ta Pearl as apples are ta oranges, aina?

One secretly records teenagers, the other doesn't?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Beard has built this roster heavily dependent on transfers and under the radar recruits.  There is a huge luck component to getting a kid like Jarrett Culver.  A Texas kid ranked in the 300s nationally.   Two years later, Culver is a likely lottery pick.

Wojo is still trying to recover from a disappointing first class.  Henry was too short lived to have much benefit.  Anim has improved a lot but in year 4 he's the only major contributor from a 5 man class.

In 2017, Wojo missed out on Xavier Tillman and Jordan Nwora.  Wojo has used transfers to fill holes but those players have mostly been role players or non-factors.  As good as Rowsey was on offense, his defense paired with Howard largely offset that.

So Wojo has largely fielded teams with large holes. This year was his best team to date but Elliott's injury and Chartouny not working out left the backcourt thin.  Hopefully McEwen and a healthy Elliott give MU a needed boost.

Next year's team starts with a much higher baseline than they did this year.  Joey needs to make a leap.  Bailey should improve,  building off of 2 strong games at the end of BE play.  Then McEwen and Elliott will determine if MU is a little better or a lot better.   

[MU82]

Bravo to the OP (and his second post, too). Superbly said.

Beard has built this roster heavily dependent on transfers and under the radar recruits.  There is a huge luck component to getting a kid like Jarrett Culver.  A Texas kid ranked in the 300s nationally.   Two years later, Culver is a likely lottery pick.

Next year's team starts with a much higher baseline than they did this year.  Joey needs to make a leap.  Bailey should improve,  building off of 2 strong games at the end of BE play.  Then McEwen and Elliott will determine if MU is a little better or a lot better.   

And two great points here, Lazar.

A program cannot build long-term, sustained success by running off coaches after only a few years, especially one whose team obviously is on an upward trend.

Glad MU brass is doing what any reasonable university leadership would be doing.

[muguru]

I think the problem most are missing is..the MU program should never be so low(at least now) that seasons like this past are viewed as a success. They should in all reality be viewed as ok and/or a bit disappointing.

[StillAWarrior]

I think the problem most are missing is..the MU program should never be so low(at least now) that seasons like this past are viewed as a success. They should in all reality be viewed as ok and/or a bit disappointing.

I think the problem that you are missing is..you don't fire a coach for a season that is "ok and/or a bit disappointing."  Especially when that follows a season that is "unacceptable and/or better show some improvement next year."

[MU82]

I think the problem most are missing is..the MU program should never be so low(at least now) that seasons like this past are viewed as a success. They should in all reality be viewed as ok and/or a bit disappointing.

You are biased. And that's OK, most fans are.

This past season is viewed as a "success" compared to the season before, the season before that and, frankly, the last season of his predecessor.

And for many of us, it also was "a bit disappointing."

They are not mutually exclusive, at least in my eyes. I view it as our program is going in the right direction, and our season was largely a success ... but I hated the way the season ended. And I will expect better next season.

Based on your past posts, you seem to view 2018-19 as anywhere from bad to mediocre to OK, and you consider it a major disappointment because of the way it ended. You obviously don't need permission from anybody else to have that view, but that doesn't mean your view is "right" and others' is "wrong."

[Silkk the Shaka]

Yeah ultimately I want Wojo to be successful enough that he can start building on his own resume on the recruiting trail (which is why a BEast regular season title this year would have been huge), enough so that both we want him here and he wants to be here 10+ years out. This upcoming season is a major opportunity to break through and start a virtuous circle on the recruiting trail.

[GOO]

You are biased. And that's OK, most fans are.

This past season is viewed as a "success" compared to the season before, the season before that and, frankly, the last season of his predecessor.

And for many of us, it also was "a bit disappointing."

They are not mutually exclusive, at least in my eyes. I view it as our program is going in the right direction, and our season was largely a success ... but I hated the way the season ended. And I will expect better next season.

Based on your past posts, you seem to view 2018-19 as anywhere from bad to mediocre to OK, and you consider it a major disappointment because of the way it ended. You obviously don't need permission from anybody else to have that view, but that doesn't mean your view is "right" and others' is "wrong."

Disappointing end to the season, no doubt.  Team wore down, no doubt.  Missing a crucial guard, no doubt.

But for anyone that was paying attention, this was not going to be a quick rebuild. To compare to a situation that was and where everything went right, is fine, but not complete.    MU was not going to be built on transfers and jucos.  That is not a nock on transfers or jucos, but this was going to be a process of bringing in student athletes and high schools at the core.  The powers that be so the negatives and as hires often go, went the other direction with other directives.  Student Athletes and a Team that is part of the University and not run as a fiefdom against the university. 

We were able to supplement with some grad transfers, but this was never going to be a quick reload.  That was made clear for those who paid attention.

Things are very much on track to exceeding expectations, except for a bad end to this season.  I won't judge a whole re-make on a poor end to the season. That is how I see it and my guess is how the powers that matter at MU see it... We have a team that is part of the university again and represents the university well and is not in the news for the wrong reasons.  Attorney Boyle isn't having to spend time around MU players (not that he was a good choice, when needed, anyway). 

For me, this off season is important to see who is back, and assuming our team remains in tact, more or less, next year should be a fun one.

[muguru]

You are biased. And that's OK, most fans are.

This past season is viewed as a "success" compared to the season before, the season before that and, frankly, the last season of his predecessor.

And for many of us, it also was "a bit disappointing."

They are not mutually exclusive, at least in my eyes. I view it as our program is going in the right direction, and our season was largely a success ... but I hated the way the season ended. And I will expect better next season.

Based on your past posts, you seem to view 2018-19 as anywhere from bad to mediocre to OK, and you consider it a major disappointment because of the way it ended. You obviously don't need permission from anybody else to have that view, but that doesn't mean your view is "right" and others' is "wrong."

I think you missed my point...There should be no "rebuilding" at Marquette anymore, to the point where Wojo's current trajectory is considered upwards. That's what chaps my A$$ more than anything else. I'm not saying Wojo is rebuilding, I'm just saying that again "rebuilding" should never happen at MU anymore. Period.

[murara1994]

I think you missed my point...There should be no "rebuilding" at Marquette anymore, to the point where Wojo's current trajectory is considered upwards. That's what chaps my A$$ more than anything else. I'm not saying Wojo is rebuilding, I'm just saying that again "rebuilding" should never happen at MU anymore. Period.

Rebuilding is exactly what would have to happen again if Wojo left.

[Pakuni]

I think you missed my point...There should be no "rebuilding" at Marquette anymore, to the point where Wojo's current trajectory is considered upwards. That's what chaps my A$$ more than anything else. I'm not saying Wojo is rebuilding, I'm just saying that again "rebuilding" should never happen at MU anymore. Period.

It's fine if you believe that, but at least recognize that Marquette was "rebuilding" when Wojo arrived because of the situation he inherited from his predecessor.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I think you missed my point...There should be no "rebuilding" at Marquette anymore, to the point where Wojo's current trajectory is considered upwards. That's what chaps my A$$ more than anything else. I'm not saying Wojo is rebuilding, I'm just saying that again "rebuilding" should never happen at MU anymore. Period.

Sports is full of highs and lows.  UNC and Kentucky had down periods.  Indiana and UCLA have had multiple rebuilds over the last 20 years.  Virginia went 35 years between Final Four appearances. 

What makes Marquette so special that it should never ever have a down period?  Frankly, your attitude reeks of entitlement.   

[GOO]

It's fine if you believe that, but at least recognize that Marquette was "rebuilding" when Wojo arrived because of the situation he inherited from his predecessor.

And rebuilding in a different way, more like a remake.  He has done his part, and exceeded it many of us, except for the end to the season.  Disappointing end, no doubt.   You can judge on that, I'll judge and the powers that be will judge on a much bigger picture.

Rebuild is over.  Culture is back to what is expected by the powers that run things.  That alone is a big deal to those in charge.

Barring major defections, we will have a solid to great team next year.  So, to me, the off season is going to be really important.

Some here would have fired most of the current top coaches at some point, it seems. Does muguru apply this standard to his own success in life and those that work for him/her?