Was the Lovell Hire a Tragic Mistake?

[keefe]

As for your first point about being one of the worst, that is the eye of the beholder.  MU dropped the offensive logo decades ago.   Or are you implying this logo is offensive?  Again, eye of the beholder.  

My wife was the most color blind, open minded person I have ever known. She had a couple running t-shirts with the warrior logo you show here. The thought that she would endorse anything hateful or ugly is unimaginable. Willie is a grotesque caricature but the image as rendered above is respectful and honors the heritage of North America.

Imagery of our Japanese enemy in WW 2 was vile and depicted the Japanese as simian, insect-like, or sub human in some form but always with buck teeth and thick glasses.






Contrast that with images taken from Japan's warrior culture that are employed by the 14th FS at Misawa, Japan.  I never met any Japanese who ever took offense as I had that patch on my flight suit while living in Aomori Prefecture. In fact, all of my Japanese neighbors begged me to get them the patch.
 
 





There is nothing wrong with using images that celebrate a culture. To run away from the Warrior as Marquette did was sheer intellectual cowardice.

[warriorchick]

Back to the original topic, the hiring of Lovell was the subject of a recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Education:

http://chronicle.com/article/Inside-a-Presidential-Search/147083/

[keefe]

Back to the original topic, the hiring of Lovell was the subject of a recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Education:

http://chronicle.com/article/Inside-a-Presidential-Search/147083/

Someone had posted this before. A huge caveat is that this was authored by the search firm that was retained to find the new President so I would read this carefully.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

A lot of the school district is part of an Indian Reservation with an Indian casino.  And before you start blasting me for using Indian, it is what the sign says when you drive there.  Their words not mine.

[Tugg Speedman]

Heisenberg,

I think the "hissy fit" stemmed from the fact that the original change was sold to the students and alumni over a period of years as a new logo.  If I remember correctly, the administration even went so far as to ask students to come up with a new logo (and I believe some were quite good).  Then, at the end, the actual announcement came out of nowhere that MU was dropping the "Warrior" name without any warning or input from students and alumni.  

Now, I think the continued angst is over how a small slice of the Native American community has somehow managed to associate the term "warrior" with , AND ONLY WITH, Native American imagery.  

Sincerely,

Saul

P.S.  I would argue that the best alternative name was not "Gold", it was "Jumpin Jesuits".  That would have been a bad-ass name and logo.

I remember the time line differently, please correct my recollection ....

* MU announced warriors is out and gold is in.  The announcement came somewhat out of the blue as their was no big discussion about changing the name beforehand.

* Warriors fans went nuts, demanded they keep warriors.

* two alumni offered the school $1 million each to keep warriors (I forget who but I think one was the CEO of Kimberly Clark)

* MU feeling the push back decided to have a vote of possible names.  On the list was Gold and Golden Eagles (among others) but not warriors ... as they made it clear they were not going back warriors.

* the poll also included a write-in possibly.  Rumor has it that warriors won in a landslide write-in.  I believe the official results of the poll were never released.

* MU announced that "upon further review" they felt Golden Eagles was a better name.  Translated, Gold was now poisoned and no rational discussion was possible about that name.  They were never going back to warriors under any circumstances.  So they took the safe choice in Golden Eagles.  Hence my comment that the warrior fans here just managed to make things worse as Gold would have been a better alternative that Golden Eagle.

--------------

If this time line is accurate (which how I remember it) and their are a infinite number of parallel realities in the Universe, none of them have us going back to warriors.  So would you please give it up for good!!

You have a much better chance of getting MU to drop Golden Eagle for Gold than for Warriors.

[MUfan12]

I remember the time line differently, please correct my recollection ....

Yeah, it's a little mixed up.

It started with Wayne Sanders promising $2 million at commencement if MU changed the name back. Wild declined, but opened up the discussion. They did focus groups, met with tribal leaders, etc. all through the fall. The board was going to meet about it in December, but tabled the vote until the spring. So, it continued.

They meet in the last week of April, and announced Gold was the new nickname. Everybody lost their sh*t. A week later, with their tail between their legs, MU announces they will put up 10 names to a vote. Hilltoppers and GE's won, and eventually GE's was kept.

[ttheisen]

I remember the time line differently, please correct my recollection ....

* MU announced warriors is out and gold is in.  The announcement came somewhat out of the blue as their was no big discussion about changing the name beforehand.

* Warriors fans went nuts, demanded they keep warriors.

* two alumni offered the school $1 million each to keep warriors (I forget who but I think one was the CEO of Kimberly Clark)

* MU feeling the push back decided to have a vote of possible names.  On the list was Gold and Golden Eagles (among others) but not warriors ... as they made it clear they were not going back warriors.

* the poll also included a write-in possibly.  Rumor has it that warriors won in a landslide write-in.  I believe the official results of the poll were never released.

* MU announced that "upon further review" they felt Golden Eagles was a better name.  Translated, Gold was now poisoned and no rational discussion was possible about that name.  They were never going back to warriors under any circumstances.  So they took the safe choice in Golden Eagles.  Hence my comment that the warrior fans here just managed to make things worse as Gold would have been a better alternative that Golden Eagle.

--------------

If this time line is accurate (which how I remember it) and their are a infinite number of parallel realities in the Universe, none of them have us going back to warriors.  So would you please give it up for good!!

You have a much better chance of getting MU to drop Golden Eagle for Gold than for Warriors.

Where does the acquisition of the Valley Fields from the Potawatomi fit in?

[humanlung]

I remember the time line differently, please correct my recollection ....

* MU announced warriors is out and gold is in.  The announcement came somewhat out of the blue as their was no big discussion about changing the name beforehand.

* Warriors fans went nuts, demanded they keep warriors.

* two alumni offered the school $1 million each to keep warriors (I forget who but I think one was the CEO of Kimberly Clark)

* MU feeling the push back decided to have a vote of possible names.  On the list was Gold and Golden Eagles (among others) but not warriors ... as they made it clear they were not going back warriors.

* the poll also included a write-in possibly.  Rumor has it that warriors won in a landslide write-in.  I believe the official results of the poll were never released.

* MU announced that "upon further review" they felt Golden Eagles was a better name.  Translated, Gold was now poisoned and no rational discussion was possible about that name.  They were never going back to warriors under any circumstances.  So they took the safe choice in Golden Eagles.  Hence my comment that the warrior fans here just managed to make things worse as Gold would have been a better alternative that Golden Eagle.

--------------

If this time line is accurate (which how I remember it) and their are a infinite number of parallel realities in the Universe, none of them have us going back to warriors.  So would you please give it up for good!!

You have a much better chance of getting MU to drop Golden Eagle for Gold than for Warriors.

The original change was to "Golden Eagles", not the "Gold".  The next two points are correct, although the alumni offer was a number of years after the original name change, if I recall correctly.  After the offer, MU decided to study the idea and solicited feedback from alumni and students, including sending out surveys  about potential names (including "Warriors") and asking about if we would wear Indian-related items to games if "warriors" was brought back.  At the end of these studies, MU announced "Gold" as the new name.  My opinion remains that the administration chose a name so sh!tty that everyone would be happy to go back to "Golden Eagles".  The name even made ESPN where it was mocked with much vigor....  After another uprising over "Gold", MU relented and put it up for a vote of the ten(?) names that were under consideration for the original name change and told everyone that ALL write-in votes for "Warriors" or "Jumpin Jesuits" (a favorite at the time of many people) would not be counted.

True democracy in action...

[humanlung]

Where does the acquisition of the Valley Fields from the Potawatomi fit in?

In the late 1980s it is rumored that the $$$ for the field were put up in exchange for dropping "Warriors". 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Berg

The problem is the original timeline, forget the latest one.  In 1994, when the decision was made, they should have said due to 3% or whatever unGodly small number were outraged, we have decided the Warrior logo and any representation with Native Americans will be removed.  The name will stay, but we are now going to use a representation tied to a generic warrior.  Then we could change the MU seal, as well, so no one would be offended that a white guy was telling the Native American paddler what to do while he is standing in a dominant position or whatever other contrived nonsense of outrage someone comes up with.


It was blown in 1994, and reblown again the last time around.  It was so simple and people both times laid out how easy it would be, but they cowered and bought into this BS nonsense that no one would be able to shed the Native American imagery.  Over time, yes they could. For the same reason that over time, eventually Warriors will be forgotten.  Goes both ways.

[keefe]

A lot of the school district is part of an Indian Reservation with an Indian casino.  And before you start blasting me for using Indian, it is what the sign says when you drive there.  Their words not mine.

I've been to that place. They have no problem being known as an Indian Casino

[LloydMooresLegs]

Funny nite from the local paper in Oak Park -Gabe Levin's home town.  In the nice article talking about Gabe and his decision to come to MU, the reporter referred to MU at one point as the "War Eagles".  Would have been a nice compromise, I think.  I don't remember that name being suggested.  Anyone else?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Funny nite from the local paper in Oak Park -Gabe Levin's home town.  In the nice article talking about Gabe and his decision to come to MU, the reporter referred to MU at one point as the "War Eagles".  Would have been a nice compromise, I think.  I don't remember that name being suggested.  Anyone else?

My belief is the pacifist cohort at MU wanted nothing to do with anything that promoted violence, war or any type of mention of those words that could construe an endorsement of, even tacitly.  It was as much an excuse to get rid of Native American imagery as it was to do a complete colon cleanse of items they didn't care for.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The problem is that when you get suburban white guy in the front row with a "headress" (which I saw last year still), it completely reinforces the administration's decision in their eyes.

Said the suburban white guy.

Would it have been better if the individual was black?

[ChicosBailBonds]

The problem is that when you get suburban white guy in the front row with a "headress" (which I saw last year still), it completely reinforces the administration's decision in their eyes.

Cop out and a reason to latch on to a lame excuse.


I would walk over to that fan, ask him to take off the head dress, give him a Trojan helmet or a Spartan helmet and it would be done.   This isn't hard.

[4everwarriors]

Just hand him a Trojan or a Shiek, hey?

[Tugg Speedman]

The original change was to "Golden Eagles", not the "Gold".  The next two points are correct, although the alumni offer was a number of years after the original name change, if I recall correctly.  After the offer, MU decided to study the idea and solicited feedback from alumni and students, including sending out surveys  about potential names (including "Warriors") and asking about if we would wear Indian-related items to games if "warriors" was brought back.  At the end of these studies, MU announced "Gold" as the new name.  My opinion remains that the administration chose a name so sh!tty that everyone would be happy to go back to "Golden Eagles".  The name even made ESPN where it was mocked with much vigor....  After another uprising over "Gold", MU relented and put it up for a vote of the ten(?) names that were under consideration for the original name change and told everyone that ALL write-in votes for "Warriors" or "Jumpin Jesuits" (a favorite at the time of many people) would not be counted.

True democracy in action...

Can you bullet point a timeline with dates so I (we) can get it straight?

[mu72warrior]

"Golden Eagles" is about as exciting as a turd in a bucket, makes a little noise and stinks!

[4everwarriors]

"Golden Eagles" is about as exciting as a turd in a bucket, makes a little noise and stinks!

Talkin' 'bout Crean again, hey?

[GGGG]

Said the suburban white guy.

I have never lived in the suburbs.  I am white though.

[GGGG]

Cop out and a reason to latch on to a lame excuse.

Yeah I know it is.  But if it reinforces it in their mind, it doesn't matter what we think.

[keefe]

turd in a bucket, makes a little noise and stinks!

Speak for yourself. Some here have droppings remarkably free of odor...

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Cop out and a reason to latch on to a lame excuse.


I would walk over to that fan, ask him to take off the head dress, give him a Trojan helmet or a Spartan helmet and it would be done.   This isn't hard.

I agree with this. Central Michigan universe has a rule at all their athletic events. If you wear a headdress, bring a Roman, use war paint, etc., you will be denied admission. If we changed the logo and instituted this policy, we would have been fine

[real chili 83]

Supposedly, MU has a "contractual" obligation with a tribe, Potowatomi I believe, that required them to drop and neve bring back the Warrior name in exchange for land and money being donated to MU.  If this is true, the name was "sold".

This is the rumor I've heard.  Anyone else have any facts Regarding this transaction?

[Galway Eagle]

Said the suburban white guy.

Would it have been better if the individual was black?

I mean it'd probably be best if the individual was native American... or at least hispanic (latino? I don't know what's politically correct anymore).