Was the Lovell Hire a Tragic Mistake?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Oh I know that. But think about how the story would play out. Marquette changes from Golden Eagles to Warriors. Marquette changed from the Warriors in the early 90s because they used native american imagery. What native american imagery did they use in the past?....oh god....that's not pretty.

Again, I agree the situation was mishandled. We should have just switched to a non-native moniker. But we didn't, and if we ever go back, our dirty laundry from the past will be aired out.

I'd get over it, real quick....so would everyone else except for the tiniest of people that would be outraged over everything no matter what.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'd get over it, real quick....so would everyone else except for the tiniest of people that would be outraged over everything no matter what.

I agree. I would rather acknowledge the past and try to make actual progress rather than sweeping it under the rug like we did. I'm just trying to figure out the administration's line of thinking

[WarriorFan]

I think the administration is embarrassed of some of the more racist imagery of the past. It's been buried for the most part now. Very few people know about Willie Wampum. If we switch back to the Warriors, all of those skeletons will come pouring out of the closet.

Bring Willie back from the same closet. 

[4everwarriors]

I blame Shaka, hey?

[MUMonster03]

The reason we will never go back to Warriors is because even though many teams use the name with no reference to Native Americans we were by far and away one of the worst offenders using Native American imagery. All you have to do is do a quick image search of Marquette Warriors mascot and you will see how bad it was if you do not remember.

In addition when people print Warrior shirts now they still use the portrait view of the Native American which shows that the Marquette community still associates it with Native American imagery. I understand that it was the last logo used but come on people and get creative. If people started making Marquette Warrior shirts depicting other types of Warriors the University might slowly see that the connection to the Native American imagery we used to use is fading and may someday entertain the idea of going back.

[4everwarriors]

I blame Crean

[GGGG]

I think the administration is embarrassed of some of the more racist imagery of the past. It's been buried for the most part now. Very few people know about Willie Wampum. If we switch back to the Warriors, all of those skeletons will come pouring out of the closet.

Now I think that will last for a season at most. Than most people would forget about it. Still, I don't think the administration will ever consider going back.

The problem is that when you get suburban white guy in the front row with a "headress" (which I saw last year still), it completely reinforces the administration's decision in their eyes.

[Dawson Rental]

Proposed meme tournament rule:  For warriors to qualify for the 2015 meme tourney field, someone must make a post in this thread -regarding warriors, i.e. not a meandering or hijacking post (like for instance this one)- sometime after voting officially closes on the 2014 championship game.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The problem is that when you get suburban white guy in the front row with a "headress" (which I saw last year still), it completely reinforces the administration's decision in their eyes.

Agreed. That headress is passed down from one student to the other every year. I've been saying we need to burn that thing for years. Continues to reinforce the connection between Warriors and Native imagery

[Spotcheck Billy]

This is why every logo I put up was not Native American in nature.  That being said, there were many that had Native American imagery that was incredibly benign (a feather, for example) that I could have added.

   some were even fake logos created by Hollywood for a movie

[Litehouse]

The problem is that when you get suburban white guy in the front row with a "headress" (which I saw last year still), it completely reinforces the administration's decision in their eyes.

The best way to disassociate the name Warriors from Native American imagery is to use the name with a new logo/imagery.  But that's not what we did, so everyone wishing we were still the Warriors uses the old logos and Native American stuff.  It won't change for at least another generation, if ever.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The best way to disassociate the name Warriors from Native American imagery is to use the name with a new logo/imagery.  But that's not what we did, so everyone wishing we were still the Warriors uses the old logos and Native American stuff.  It won't change for at least another generation, if ever.

The only team I've ever seen pull it off is the Golden State Warriors. So, technically, I guess it's possible, but I don't think its likely.

People are nostalgic about stuff.  

The Padres old uniforms were ugly as sin, but people still wear them. The Packers retro jersey are terrible, but people still buy them.

Washington Wizards just brought back a retro design that looks like the old Bullets uniforms. The Bobcats just became the Hornets (the team that left town before).

Etc. etc.

EVEN IF MU did a great job with an alternate logo and kept the name, there would still be people out there rockin' the old imagery. It's just the way people are. They become attached/entrenched and they don't want to be told "no"... especially at the college level where nostalgia runs a lot deeper that pro sports.

*And for the record, I think MU botched this whole deal HORRENDOUSLY TWICE.

Should have just gone back to 'Toppers and been down with it. It's the original name. It would have been fine, and easily justifiable.

[GGGG]

Should have just gone back to 'Toppers and been down with it. It's the original name. It would have been fine, and easily justifiable.

Yep.  The vote idea was dumb.

[keefe]

rt

Yep.  The vote idea was dumb.

Well, futile. It had all the trappings of a free and fair Banana Republic Junta Fest

[mu-rara]

I think the administration is embarrassed of some of the more racist imagery of the past. It's been buried for the most part now. Very few people know about Willie Wampum. If we switch back to the Warriors, all of those skeletons will come pouring out of the closet.

Now I think that will last for a season at most. Than most people would forget about it. Still, I don't think the administration will ever consider going back.

If we kept Willie until about 1987, thrown him out as racist and kept Warriors as our nickname we would have been fine.  We dumped Willie in 1971, way before this became fashionable, and received no credit.   Based on the rumored payoff coming from the Potawatomi, we have no hope of returning the Warrior.

[GGGG]

rt
Well, futile. It had all the trappings of a free and fair Banana Republic Junta Fest

LOL...exactly

[4everwarriors]

Kangaroo court, aina?

[ChicosBailBonds]

The reason we will never go back to Warriors is because even though many teams use the name with no reference to Native Americans we were by far and away one of the worst offenders using Native American imagery. All you have to do is do a quick image search of Marquette Warriors mascot and you will see how bad it was if you do not remember.

In addition when people print Warrior shirts now they still use the portrait view of the Native American which shows that the Marquette community still associates it with Native American imagery. I understand that it was the last logo used but come on people and get creative. If people started making Marquette Warrior shirts depicting other types of Warriors the University might slowly see that the connection to the Native American imagery we used to use is fading and may someday entertain the idea of going back.

Nah.

Bring back Warriors and a new logo, and all those folks wearing Native American Warrior imagery would acquiesce in no time because they got to keep the name.  This isn't hard.  That's all they had to do from the start.  Golden State did it without any problem.

As for your first point about being one of the worst, that is the eye of the beholder.  MU dropped the offensive logo decades ago.   Or are you implying this logo is offensive?  Again, eye of the beholder. 






Keep the name, change the logo.  It was so easy, but MU blew this one too.  Not surprisingly.

[4everwarriors]

If we kept Willie until about 1987, thrown him out as racist and kept Warriors as our nickname we would have been fine.  We dumped Willie in 1971, way before this became fashionable, and received no credit.   Based on the rumored payoff coming from the Potawatomi, we have no hope of returning the Warrior.

Thank you Sam Sauceda, hey?

[ChicosBailBonds]

If we kept Willie until about 1987, thrown him out as racist and kept Warriors as our nickname we would have been fine.  We dumped Willie in 1971, way before this became fashionable, and received no credit.   Based on the rumored payoff coming from the Potawatomi, we have no hope of returning the Warrior.

Ding ding, winner winner chicken dinner.


MU bungled....how many times can we put those words together over the years. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Ding ding, winner winner chicken dinner.


MU bungled....how many times can we put those words together over the years.  

But MU doesn't think it bungled.  They think they made the right decision.

In fact MU thinks if anyone "bungled" anything it was the fossils that kept pining for a return to warriors (fossil = graduated before 1993 when MU was still the warriors).  Their hissy fit in the wake of dropping warriors resulted in MU not taking a best name other than warriors (which was gold) and instead turning it into generic PC offends no one "Golden Eagles."

So thanks to all that rose a stink about dropping warriors and making it worse.

[ChicosBailBonds]

  some were even fake logos created by Hollywood for a movie

Yup.  Some were even of local high school teams.  They were able to marry a logo with a name, but apparently MU couldn't figure that out.

[humanlung]

But MU doesn't think it bungled.  They think they made the right decision.

In fact MU thinks if anyone "bungled" anything it was the fossils that kept pining for a return to warriors (fossil = graduated before 1993 when MU was still the warriors).  Their hissy fit in the wake of dropping warriors resulted in MU not taking a best name other than warriors (which was gold) and instead turning it into generic PC offends no one "Golden Eagles."

So thanks to all that rose a stink about dropping warriors and making it worse.

Heisenberg,

I think the "hissy fit" stemmed from the fact that the original change was sold to the students and alumni over a period of years as a new logo.  If I remember correctly, the administration even went so far as to ask students to come up with a new logo (and I believe some were quite good).  Then, at the end, the actual announcement came out of nowhere that MU was dropping the "Warrior" name without any warning or input from students and alumni.  

Now, I think the continued angst is over how a small slice of the Native American community has somehow managed to associate the term "warrior" with , AND ONLY WITH, Native American imagery.  

Sincerely,

Saul

P.S.  I would argue that the best alternative name was not "Gold", it was "Jumpin Jesuits".  That would have been a bad-ass name and logo.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The only team I've ever seen pull it off is the Golden State Warriors. So, technically, I guess it's possible, but I don't think its likely.

People are nostalgic about stuff.  

The Padres old uniforms were ugly as sin, but people still wear them. The Packers retro jersey are terrible, but people still buy them.

Washington Wizards just brought back a retro design that looks like the old Bullets uniforms. The Bobcats just became the Hornets (the team that left town before).

Etc. etc.

EVEN IF MU did a great job with an alternate logo and kept the name, there would still be people out there rockin' the old imagery. It's just the way people are. They become attached/entrenched and they don't want to be told "no"... especially at the college level where nostalgia runs a lot deeper that pro sports.

*And for the record, I think MU botched this whole deal HORRENDOUSLY TWICE.

Should have just gone back to 'Toppers and been down with it. It's the original name. It would have been fine, and easily justifiable.

You are comparing uniforms to logo \ name changes.  It can be done.   It has been done many many times over the years.  Litehouse is dead on right IMO.

Golden State, which you acknowledged.

Think about all of the logo changes over the years, eventually the old logo dies out UNLESS the teams are trying to sell the retro stuff, throwback and promoting it.

How many folks you see running around with this Red Sox logo? 

Angels     Sometimes I'll see some of the old California Angels logos, mostly because the team brings them back for retro stuff, but MU wouldn't bring back the old Warrior stuff.  Just let it die.

Etc, etc.                       

Are people still wearing a bunch of Washington Bullets stuff at Wizards games?  Maybe they are, just asking.

Could have been handled so easily.  Sigh. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

But MU doesn't think it bungled.  They think they made the right decision.

In fact MU thinks if anyone "bungled" anything it was the fossils that kept pining for a return to warriors (fossil = graduated before 1993 when MU was still the warriors).  Their hissy fit in the wake of dropping warriors resulted in MU not taking a best name other than warriors (which was gold) and instead turning it into generic PC offends no one "Golden Eagles."

So thanks to all that rose a stink about dropping warriors and making it worse.

MU has thought a lot of things they have done over the years weren't bungled.