Who Does MU Compete With For Students?

[Disco Hippie]

I agree with all of the sentiments expressed by my fellow Northeastern alums.  The number of students attending MU from the Northeast has always fluctuated with the success or lack thereof of our men's basketball program.  Always has and always will.

I agree that it's hard for MU to compete with Northeastern schools that have a similar profile such as Fordham, BU, GWU, American, etc.  MKE is a great a city in many ways but Boston, DC or NYC it's not. 

Completely agree with MU Fan in NY that ignoring the outstanding public high schools in that populate the wealthy NYC burbs in Westchester Co., Farifield County CT, and Northern NJ is a huge strategic mistake.  My high school in southern CT typically sends 3-5 kids a year to UW Madison.  That was true in the late 80's when I graduated and it's still true today.  All the other area high schools send about the same numbers there.  When I broached this with a couple of folks in admissions last year, they acknowledged that was the case but basically said because most of the students who attend UW Madison from the northeast are of a "different faith tradition" i.e. they're Jewish, that they think it's a waste of resources.  I was actually surprised they picked up on that because it is absolutely true. Almost everyone I grew up with or know professionally that went to UW Mad from the NYC area is indeed Jewish, but the bigger point is people are not unwilling to travel there and Madison is less accessible from NYC than MKE is.  Another point is that UW Madison's out of state tuition I'm sure is comparable to MU's, very possibly even more.  And because these areas are as wealthy as they are, the parents are capable of paying a much higher percentage of the sticker and many of these families won't qualify for financial aid at all.  That alsone reason is why this group should not be ignored.  Ironically the public school contingent in this part of the country is generally a much more well to do lot than the families who attend Catholic schools.   If MU made the slightest effort, they CAN compete for some of these students.  Will they win out over BU, Fordham, or GWU?  Perhaps not but I guarantee you they'd still get more from out there than they currently do if they made even the slightest effort for minimal cost.    MU's 75%  acceptance rate isn't helping though.  Need to get that down.  People here are snobs and they care about that kind of stuff.  I cornered Lovell and told him as much at the reception prior to the St. Johns game.  Couldn't get away from me fast enough.  I don't care, he needs to know they're losing potential students from out here because of it.  At the end of the day, they just don't care and don't think they compete with the schools out here.   They're wrong, but as long as they keep acting that way, that will be true in another 3 years short of a major Men's BB turnaround.

[Tugg Speedman]

As Glow said, focusing their energy on southwest of the country, San Antonio Phoenix Albuquerque is a much better use of their time.  Butting heads in the Northeast  with the many other Catholic and Jesuit schools is not a good strategy.

They will get kids from the northeast when the basketball team is good. It's not worth the resources to go into those public schools in Connecticut and argue for Marquette when you're 15 other Catholic schools doing the same. And most of those other Catholic schools are Drive not a plane ride.

[Cooby Snacks]

It was between MU and U of Washington for me. MU stepped up in a big way with funding, so it was an easy choice compared to paying out of state tuition. Those were the only two schools I bothered applying to.

Interestingly, UDub used to have an offer for those who paid lifetime memberships to its alumni association: your kids could pay the instate tuition rate no matter where you lived. My dad joined for this reason, but unfortunately it was rescinded several years before I could benefit.

[Disco Hippie]

As Glow said, focusing their energy on southwest of the country, San Antonio Phoenix Albuquerque is a much better use of their time.  Butting heads in the Northeast  with the many other Catholic and Jesuit schools is not a good strategy.

They will get kids from the northeast when the basketball team is good. It's not worth the resources to go into those public schools in Connecticut and argue for Marquette when you're 15 other Catholic schools doing the same. And most of those other Catholic schools are Drive not a plane ride.

I agree with you Yukon.  I'm not suggesting that MU admissions devote a cent more to the northeast than they already are for the reasons you mentioned.  What I am suggesting is that they deploy the few resources they already devoting to the area differently.  MU doesn't completely neglect the area, but they basically only go to Catholic high schools and have representation at college fairs either hosted by Catholic high schools or college fairs exclusively devoted to Catholic colleges and universities, and the problem with that is their brand is already well enough established there so they're only getting the same few kids they always do.

I get the accepted students list every year and last year of roughly 40 accepted students from the state of CT, all but 8 were from Catholic high schools.  Of the 8 from public schools, all of those 8 were from the exact same public high school in Fairfield, CT.   Why?  Because 1 student from that high school went to MU 5 years ago, had a very positive experience, told their friends, and because that student had such a good experience, that schools' counselors are recommending MU when they were not before and they get 10-12 kids apply every year.   There's no reason that couldn't be replicated if they went to other public high schools, but they just don't see the wisdom.  They're always going to get some kids from the catholic schools and frankly don't need any help there.

[real chili 83]

Georgetown is academically i the range of ND and Northwestern, that makes MU a safety

This is an insult to Gtown. I've met my share of dumb a$$ domers.

[dgies9156]

Who said that?

From the first post:

* 35% of MU students at MU are from the Chicago area, 20% are from WI.  The other 40% are from all over.  The northeast numbers have been falling in recent years and MU is still getting a number of kids from Puerto Rico.

* MU really does not compete with large state schools.  So, it competition for students is other Catholic/Jesuit schools.  State schools kids and Jesuit school kids are just different types and they don't see a lot of bleed-over.  Restated, MU is not competing with Bucky or the Illini for students (see above).

* The school they compete with the most ... Dayton followed by SLU.  They said they these two schools are "most like" MU.  Dayton more so than SLU.  Loyola (Chicago) and Depaul were not mentioned.

* Why Dayton?  A Catholic school in a medium sized Midwestern city for Chicago area students that want to go away from home but not too far.  Frame liked this and it sounds a lot like MU.[/b]

[GGGG]

I agree with you Yukon.  I'm not suggesting that MU admissions devote a cent more to the northeast than they already are for the reasons you mentioned.  What I am suggesting is that they deploy the few resources they already devoting to the area differently.  MU doesn't completely neglect the area, but they basically only go to Catholic high schools and have representation at college fairs either hosted by Catholic high schools or college fairs exclusively devoted to Catholic colleges and universities, and the problem with that is their brand is already well enough established there so they're only getting the same few kids they always do.

I get the accepted students list every year and last year of roughly 40 accepted students from the state of CT, all but 8 were from Catholic high schools.  Of the 8 from public schools, all of those 8 were from the exact same public high school in Fairfield, CT.   Why?  Because 1 student from that high school went to MU 5 years ago, had a very positive experience, told their friends, and because that student had such a good experience, that schools' counselors are recommending MU when they were not before and they get 10-12 kids apply every year.   There's no reason that couldn't be replicated if they went to other public high schools, but they just don't see the wisdom.  They're always going to get some kids from the catholic schools and frankly don't need any help there.

You've said this before. Marquette knows it's market and deploy its limited resources to fit that market. Public high schools in New England just aren't in that market.

[real chili 83]

I understand the Twin Cities is #3 for metro areas for MU enrollment.

[Tugg Speedman]

This is an insult to Gtown. I've met my share of dumb a$$ domers.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

#12 Northwestern
#15 ND
#20 G-Town

Oh ...

#86 MU
#96 St. Louis
#99 Loyola (Chicago)
#111 Dayton
#124 Depaul

[real chili 83]

Ok, Heisendomer.

Lou Holtz, slobbering moron
Digger Phelps, world famous womanizer
Manti Te'o, world famous moron
Joe Montana, world famous father of a son who got out of rape charges cause of daddy's name
ND, home of campus police who cover up rapes

[GGGG]

Ok, Heisendomer.

Lou Holtz, slobbering moron
Digger Phelps, world famous womanizer
Manti Te'o, world famous moron
Joe Montana, world famous father of a son who got out of rape charges cause of daddy's name
ND, home of campus police who cover up rapes

Don't forget scissor lifts on windy days.

[real chili 83]

It's too bad ND has fallen to such lows.

My neighbor, Dr. Waldman, is a true American hero.  ND's college of science is named after him.  Google him. A true American hero.  We won wwii in part because of his contribution.

Edit...  Goggle Bernard Waldman.  A humble man. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Ok, Heisendomer.

Lou Holtz, slobbering moron
Digger Phelps, world famous womanizer
Manti Te'o, world famous moron
Joe Montana, world famous father of a son who got out of rape charges cause of daddy's name
ND, home of campus police who cover up rapes

You really need help

[wildbillsb]

You really need help

Oh, and don't forget, some of us MU loyalists are still wincing from the 2011 stories in the ChiTrib about the rape(s?) coverup on campus.

[real chili 83]

You really need help

You are an ignorant nd idiot. Facts are not your friend.

[Tugg Speedman]

You are an ignorant nd idiot. Facts are not your friend.

Seriously, get some help

[shoothoops]

Question, out of curiosity, for those that know, what moves the needle on the rankings lists? I take them with a grain of salt.  Some schools stay similar, others steadily drop or rise for years, others take big jumps.

BC 31, and they have been in that type of range a long time. Fordham at 60, is usually a top 50 annually. Villanova was not previously in the National University category, begins at 50. 

Many familiar state schools are clustered around the 50 mark, Illinois, Wisconsin, Penn St., Florida, Georgia, Texas, etc...Some other familiar ones are clustered closer to Marquette such as Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Forida St, Michigan St, Maryland.

Marquette pretty much stays in its range annually.

I would agree that those seeking a large state school experience wouldn't consider Marquette and vice versa, unless it is the local, regional state or private school, then maybe once in a while. Many ppl are seeking a particular program, sport, geography, etc...

I wish more kids could visit more places at younger ages.  Many times these choices are very random.

So what moves the needle?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I agree with you Yukon.  I'm not suggesting that MU admissions devote a cent more to the northeast than they already are for the reasons you mentioned.  What I am suggesting is that they deploy the few resources they already devoting to the area differently.  MU doesn't completely neglect the area, but they basically only go to Catholic high schools and have representation at college fairs either hosted by Catholic high schools or college fairs exclusively devoted to Catholic colleges and universities, and the problem with that is their brand is already well enough established there so they're only getting the same few kids they always do.

I get the accepted students list every year and last year of roughly 40 accepted students from the state of CT, all but 8 were from Catholic high schools.  Of the 8 from public schools, all of those 8 were from the exact same public high school in Fairfield, CT.   Why?  Because 1 student from that high school went to MU 5 years ago, had a very positive experience, told their friends, and because that student had such a good experience, that schools' counselors are recommending MU when they were not before and they get 10-12 kids apply every year.   There's no reason that couldn't be replicated if they went to other public high schools, but they just don't see the wisdom.  They're always going to get some kids from the catholic schools and frankly don't need any help there.

For me it came down to Marquette or UConn and I was definitely going to go away for school and thankfully my parents liked MU better.

My Marquette friends who still live in the Milwaukee tell me their children love Marquette, but don't really want to go there because it's too close to home and they want to go away to school.  Interestingly a few of their kids are at StLU.

I have been doing college fairs in Connecticut for Marquette for the last 25 years and it does seem the last 5 or 6 years they have been downplaying the Northeast.  The fairs have mostly been at catholic high schools, but sometimes at public HS's including my kids' high school.  It's an excellent public school.  96% of the students go on to a 4-year college.  I have seen students interested and a certain percentage seem to have cousins in Wisconsin or Illinois.  Plus my kids wear a lot Marquette gear and according to them other kids have been asking questions and are intrigued because they talk up the school.

[warriorchick]

Question, out of curiosity, for those that know, what moves the needle on the rankings lists? I take them with a grain of salt.  Some schools stay similar, others steadily drop or rise for years, others take big jumps.

BC 31, and they have been in that type of range a long time. Fordham at 60, is usually a top 50 annually. Villanova was not previously in the National University category, begins at 50. 

Many familiar state schools are clustered around the 50 mark, Illinois, Wisconsin, Penn St., Florida, Georgia, Texas, etc...Some other familiar ones are clustered closer to Marquette such as Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Forida St, Michigan St, Maryland.

Marquette pretty much stays in its range annually.

I would agree that those seeking a large state school experience wouldn't consider Marquette and vice versa, unless it is the local, regional state or private school, then maybe once in a while. Many ppl are seeking a particular program, sport, geography, etc...

I wish more kids could visit more places at younger ages.  Many times these choices are very random.

So what moves the needle?

Gaming the rankings, for one:

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/

[Coleman]

Question, out of curiosity, for those that know, what moves the needle on the rankings lists? I take them with a grain of salt.  Some schools stay similar, others steadily drop or rise for years, others take big jumps.

BC 31, and they have been in that type of range a long time. Fordham at 60, is usually a top 50 annually. Villanova was not previously in the National University category, begins at 50. 

Many familiar state schools are clustered around the 50 mark, Illinois, Wisconsin, Penn St., Florida, Georgia, Texas, etc...Some other familiar ones are clustered closer to Marquette such as Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Forida St, Michigan St, Maryland.

Marquette pretty much stays in its range annually.

I would agree that those seeking a large state school experience wouldn't consider Marquette and vice versa, unless it is the local, regional state or private school, then maybe once in a while. Many ppl are seeking a particular program, sport, geography, etc...

I wish more kids could visit more places at younger ages.  Many times these choices are very random.

So what moves the needle?

 I think the criteria is well published.

We would just need to focus meeting that criteria. It is debatable whether that would be a worthwhile investment over other university priorities.

[GGGG]

Very interesting conversation with a couple of admissions people about ratings.

They are of the thought that ratings don't mean nearly as much with students today as they did 10-20 years ago.  A lot of this is because there has been a proliferation of ratings and pretty much any school can use some sort of rating in their marketing.  They are much more focused on 1. Fit and 2. The quality of the specific program they are interested in. 

Parents are still somewhat focused on the USN&WR rankings, but even that has been changing over the past few years.

[Clam Crowder]

I went to MU from Rhode Island-My last 4 schools were Providence, St. Joe's, Loyola (Maryland), and Marquette. Not necessarily competing with Jesuits but with private, catholic schools period. I only applied to 1 out of state state school in Delaware.

Reason I chose MU at the time was the accounting program (compounded with basketball program being better).

[Herman Cain]

As Glow said, focusing their energy on southwest of the country, San Antonio Phoenix Albuquerque is a much better use of their time.  Butting heads in the Northeast  with the many other Catholic and Jesuit schools is not a good strategy.

They will get kids from the northeast when the basketball team is good. It's not worth the resources to go into those public schools in Connecticut and argue for Marquette when you're 15 other Catholic schools doing the same. And most of those other Catholic schools are Drive not a plane ride.

The issue is MU is ignoring the public schools when there is good evidence that shows  reward when they pay attention.  All they need to do is show up on the annual list of schools that are visiting the guidance office. Year after Year. They build a relationship with the guidance counselor so the guidance officer is alert to kids that fit MU profile. In my area there were several cases in which an athlete went to MU, our admissions people actually followed up the next year and got another non athlete, but then they went dormant and were not on the visit list and  pretty soon they  are an after thought.

I have been to the presentations our admissions people do, and they have a very good product to sell. Lots of kids in the northeast explicitly want a "city" school.  There are enough kids from the area to create a community of interest and boost our numbers.

As I said before, the school I see us competing with  most for admitted applicants is Boston University because it too is a city university. However, at the raw application stage many of the kids who are willing to consider the Big Ten type schools such as UW or Indiana are also willing to look at MU. For some the size of the campuses at the Big Ten schools is overwhelming and the mid size of MU is very appealing. These are not the kids who are just thinking Catholic schools.

The other thing is we are still a relative bargain compared to some of these private schools which are well north of 60,000 total cost of attendance. $ 12,000 times 4 years is real money. We can really make some inroads with a lot of families in the public schools.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

The other thing is we are still a relative bargain compared to some of these private schools which are well north of 60,000 total cost of attendance. $ 12,000 times 4 years is real money. We can really make some inroads with a lot of families in the public schools.

I definitely make note of this when I do college fairs.   The price of MU vs. Northeast private universities.

[Newsdreams]

Question, out of curiosity, for those that know, what moves the needle on the rankings lists? I take them with a grain of salt.  Some schools stay similar, others steadily drop or rise for years, others take big jumps.

BC 31, and they have been in that type of range a long time. Fordham at 60, is usually a top 50 annually. Villanova was not previously in the National University category, begins at 50. 

Many familiar state schools are clustered around the 50 mark, Illinois, Wisconsin, Penn St., Florida, Georgia, Texas, etc...Some other familiar ones are clustered closer to Marquette such as Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Forida St, Michigan St, Maryland.

Marquette pretty much stays in its range annually.

I would agree that those seeking a large state school experience wouldn't consider Marquette and vice versa, unless it is the local, regional state or private school, then maybe once in a while. Many ppl are seeking a particular program, sport, geography, etc...

I wish more kids could visit more places at younger ages.  Many times these choices are very random.

So what moves the needle?

All sorts of wierd things factor in. Like having a football team helps. Even if school is ranked that year in a D1 sport or won championship. Research, endowment, even certain faculty from universities are surveyed.