Crean vs Buzz vs Wojo vs Shaka

[tower912]

NM.   Back to the popcorn.   Carry on.

[brewcity77]

But there are also other facts at play here, facts you want to ignore because they contradict your full cupboard narrative. Sorry, but in assessing what was left behind it’s legit to point out that Acker had never been any good at MU. And that he was dismissed from the team. And that he was only a member of the team because the guy coming in to replace him was hurt. It’s also germane to point out that Cubillan was awful his junior year (27fg%, less than 1 point and 1rebound per game.

The main reason they didn't play was because we had a loaded back court. James/McNeal/Matthews was one of the best groups in the country. Acker was adequate when he replaced James. Not great, clearly not as good as James, but roughly an average player (which felt like and was a big step down from an all-conference type PG).

But simply, you are either lying or misremembering reality here. Acker was a fine backup as a sophomore. His 109.6 ORtg and 42.6% 3PFG% made him a solid backup guard behind McNeal and James (and more efficient and a better shooter than either). As a junior, his efficiency dipped, but not horrendously (99.7/28.8%) and he did okay managing the ship when James went down. His biggest deficiency was his defense, but he was good enough to get minutes on that team before and after James' injury. And as Sultan pointed out, you are again either lying or misremembering when it comes to the timing of Acker's return.

Cubillan had a down junior year recovering from injury, but was a high efficiency player as a freshman (119.3 ORtg, 2nd on team) and sophomore (112.3, 2nd on team) indicating that when he was healthy, he was a plus contributor. Buzz tried to run him off, like Acker, because he liked bigger guards but failed to do so. Fortunately for him.

Your facts and my fact together form an accurate picture. Fair people will look at both and form their opinion. No matter how angry and unreasonable you want to be.

The problem here is that my facts are facts, and your fact about the timing of when Buzz begged Acker to come back is not true. Fair people will look and see that I am telling the truth and you are lying, because you have been reminded about this multiple times and continue to perpetuate the same lie.

Scoop’s two biggest blowhards (sultan and Heisy) are your wingmen here. Hmmm.

And Nukem, and Equalizer, and pretty much anyone not named Ners weighing in on the topic. You might want to consider the company you are keeping. Even Goose isn't jumping in on your side here.

In addition, there's no debating that Crean brought Acker and Cubillan in and Buzz deployed them as starters, and they did so to excellent effect. Acker was 3rd in the nation in 3PFG% at 49.5%, had an excellent ORtg (117.1, #124 nationally), and Marquette career-bests in assist rate and turnover rate. Cubillian was 3rd on the team in minutes, also shot excellent (41.2%) from three, and was second on the team in efficiency (119.1, 77th nationally). In addition, the team was more efficient (0.955 ppp) on an adjusted per possession basis than either the year before in 2009 (0.961) or the year after they left in 2011 (0.973).

Buzz did a phenomenal job adjusting to the talent on that team. He did very well slowing the pace, adapting his style, and really readjusting to the roster he had and maximizing what Acker and Cubillan were as players on the offensive end while minimizing the negatives of their size on the defensive end. But he did that with the players he had, which was a pair of players recruited by his predecessor.

You can say I'm being angry and unreasonable, but that doesn't make it so. The reality is I am right and you are simply wrong and having a very tough time accepting that. The only opinion I've offered here is that Buzz did a phenomenal job with the 2009-10 team. Everything else is black and white facts that you are trying to debate. If you want to debate takes, you can argue against my contention that Buzz coached 2009-10 in excellent fashion, none of the rest is up for argument.

[Billy Hoyle]

The main reason they didn't play was because we had a loaded back court. James/McNeal/Matthews was one of the best groups in the country. Acker was adequate when he replaced James. Not great, clearly not as good as James, but roughly an average player (which felt like and was a big step down from an all-conference type PG).

But simply, you are either lying or misremembering reality here. Acker was a fine backup as a sophomore. His 109.6 ORtg and 42.6% 3PFG% made him a solid backup guard behind McNeal and James (and more efficient and a better shooter than either). As a junior, his efficiency dipped, but not horrendously (99.7/28.8%) and he did okay managing the ship when James went down. His biggest deficiency was his defense, but he was good enough to get minutes on that team before and after James' injury. And as Sultan pointed out, you are again either lying or misremembering when it comes to the timing of Acker's return.

Cubillan had a down junior year recovering from injury, but was a high efficiency player as a freshman (119.3 ORtg, 2nd on team) and sophomore (112.3, 2nd on team) indicating that when he was healthy, he was a plus contributor. Buzz tried to run him off, like Acker, because he liked bigger guards but failed to do so. Fortunately for him.

The problem here is that my facts are facts, and your fact about the timing of when Buzz begged Acker to come back is not true. Fair people will look and see that I am telling the truth and you are lying, because you have been reminded about this multiple times and continue to perpetuate the same lie.

And Nukem, and Equalizer, and pretty much anyone not named Ners weighing in on the topic. You might want to consider the company you are keeping. Even Goose isn't jumping in on your side here.

In addition, there's no debating that Crean brought Acker and Cubillan in and Buzz deployed them as starters, and they did so to excellent effect. Acker was 3rd in the nation in 3PFG% at 49.5%, had an excellent ORtg (117.1, #124 nationally), and Marquette career-bests in assist rate and turnover rate. Cubillian was 3rd on the team in minutes, also shot excellent (41.2%) from three, and was second on the team in efficiency (119.1, 77th nationally). In addition, the team was more efficient (0.955 ppp) on an adjusted per possession basis than either the year before in 2009 (0.961) or the year after they left in 2011 (0.973).

Buzz did a phenomenal job adjusting to the talent on that team. He did very well slowing the pace, adapting his style, and really readjusting to the roster he had and maximizing what Acker and Cubillan were as players on the offensive end while minimizing the negatives of their size on the defensive end. But he did that with the players he had, which was a pair of players recruited by his predecessor.

You can say I'm being angry and unreasonable, but that doesn't make it so. The reality is I am right and you are simply wrong and having a very tough time accepting that. The only opinion I've offered here is that Buzz did a phenomenal job with the 2009-10 team. Everything else is black and white facts that you are trying to debate. If you want to debate takes, you can argue against my contention that Buzz coached 2009-10 in excellent fashion, none of the rest is up for argument.

you nailed this, Brew. Acker and Cuby were meant to be depth pieces, not starters. They were very good in those roles and . That said, Buzz didn't have to beg Mo to come back to the team as much as he had to beg the administration to let him back on the team due to some issues (not academic) that led to him being off the roster.

[Lennys Tap]

The bolded is false.

Mo Acker rejoins the team in August 2009

https://marquettewire.org/3751423/tribune/tribune-sports/acker-to-rejoin-mens-basketball-team/

Junior Cadougan injured in September

https://marquettewire.org/3753116/tribune/tribune-sports/cadougan-out-four-to-six-months/

And if constantly pointing out your errors, mis-statements and exaggerations because you can't admit that your take was horrendous, makes me a "blowhard," it's a badge I will wear with honor.  And I will continue down this path the more you continue to double...triple...sextuple down on this nonsense.

Got anything else???

I was wrong on the timing. See how easy that was?

The fact remains that he sucked as a junior and was invited to return as a back up, not a starter.

[Lennys Tap]

Buzz coached them for THREE years--one as an assistant to Crean and two as head coach.

During his first year coaching them (as Crean's assistant), he had a front row seat witnessing them for 30 or so games and five+ months of practice.

If you want an honest and truthful argument, you have to start by agreeing with basic facts, and that starts with the fact that Buzz was on MU's coaching staff the year before he was promoted to head coach.  As such, he had first-hand experience working with everyone on the team.

If you disagree with that, then you're the one trying to pass of falsehoods.

The ASSISTANT is not in charge. He does what his boss tells him to do. His seat was better than mine, but he wasn’t making the decisions.

[Lennys Tap]

Acker was adequate when he replaced James. Not great, clearly not as good as James, but roughly an average player (which felt like and was a big step down from an all-conference type PG).

If you think a guard with a 29.7 fg% who can’t guard anybody is an average Big East guard I’m glad you’re not in charge of recruiting.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If you think a guard with a 29.7 fg% who can’t guard anybody is an average Big East guard I’m glad you’re not in charge of recruiting.

His senior year he had an EFG of .554, which would have been top 10 BE but he didn't have enough attempts. Top 20 in the conference in both assists and steals.

Again, not a super-star, but completely serviceable.  Far from "EMPTY."

[brewcity77]

If you think a guard with a 29.7 fg% who can’t guard anybody is an average Big East guard I’m glad you’re not in charge of recruiting.

I know reading isn't always your strong suit, but the part you quoted said "when he replaced James." During that time, Acker shot 11/30 from three (36.7%) and 2/4 from two (50%). I'll take a 54.4 eFG% from the bench replacement any time. He had 23 assists to 9 turnovers. Buzz strictly used him as a game manager and charged him with handling the ball and not turning it over (never more than 2 TOs in a game during that stretch). He wasn't great, he wasn't awful. He was fine. But because he was replacing James and we were playing 6/8 games against ranked teams (5 in the top-10) he was just adequate.

Seriously, you don't have to do this. Your defenders are all gone, you're spam posting Chicos style to defend the indefensible. It's okay to just walk away from the topic you've so clearly been run around in circles on. Just take the L and move on.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

To recap...Buzz was left with an "EMPTY" cupboard in year two.

Well except for...

**A second team all Big East player who lead the team in scoring and would be drafted in the first round of the next NBA draft
**A guard who started every game, lead the team in EFG and was third in minutes played
**A guard who started 21 games, lead the team in assists, and second in 3P%

Look, clearly Jimmy and DJO were way better than Cubillan and Acker. But they certainly were not without value.  And Buzz knew that!  That's why he played them as much as he did. Great coaching job all around.

And Lazar was great of course. With the Otule injury playing out of position the entire season.

[wadesworld]

And who is responsible for the cupboard in a coach’s second year, anyway? I mean, I’ve never heard that argument until now.

[Lennys Tap]

And who is responsible for the cupboard in a coach’s second year, anyway? I mean, I’ve never heard that argument until now.

Actually this exact topic has been discussed before on Scoop. I don’t have the time, energy or inclination to look for it, but it has.

[wadesworld]

Actually this exact topic has been discussed before on Scoop. I don’t have the time, energy or inclination to look for it, but it has.

Don’t recall it. But if it has, it’s an absurd argument.

I hate that Buzz left Wojo a bear cupboard in year 6 though.