Hyperloop

[DegenerateDish]

So, is Hyperloop a concept that might happen someday? Pretty amazing stuff to read.

[wadesworld]

I thought you misspelled hoopaloop.  Where did that guy go?  Seems like since Chicos has returned from his ban hoopaloop went into hiding.  Weird.  They must hate each other.  Something about a fight after a backyard beer summit where Chicos gave hoop some tickets to Disney.  They must've been used tickets and hoop left his money in Bloomington and couldn't get his children into Disney.

[forgetful]

So, is Hyperloop a concept that might happen someday? Pretty amazing stuff to read.

I think it is an interesting idea.  A very old idea actually.  I do wonder about its feasibility on several levels, but the individuals involved are quite intelligent, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  

My largest concern is scalability, conceptually I do not understand how the device would work with multiple cars (sleds, whatever you want to call them).  With 28 individuals to a car, I'm not sure how many cars (if even possible with multiple cars) could occupy the same tube.  In that regards, it would be greatly limiting as to how scalable the technology would be and thus vastly impractical

I'm sure this is something they looked into and have come up with some ideas.  

edit:  Just read their white paper.  There design is different than what Rand/ET3 had been proposing.  I misunderstood how they were dealing with actual air pressure in the tube.  Looks quite feasible, how much it would cost is a completely different question.

[Hards Alumni]

I think it is an interesting idea.  A very old idea actually.  I do wonder about its feasibility on several levels, but the individuals involved are quite intelligent, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  

My largest concern is scalability, conceptually I do not understand how the device would work with multiple cars (sleds, whatever you want to call them).  With 28 individuals to a car, I'm not sure how many cars (if even possible with multiple cars) could occupy the same tube.  In that regards, it would be greatly limiting as to how scalable the technology would be and thus vastly impractical

I'm sure this is something they looked into and have come up with some ideas.  

edit:  Just read their white paper.  There design is different than what Rand/ET3 had been proposing.  I misunderstood how they were dealing with actual air pressure in the tube.  Looks quite feasible, how much it would cost is a completely different question.

In Musk's calculations it would cost about 1/10 of what is proposed for the "high speed" rail ($68 billion)... I believe around $6-7 billion.  Totally reasonable.

edit: Here is a link to the pdf alpha proposal.  http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperloop-alpha.pdf

[Coleman]

Looks genius and practical. If we could put people on the moon with 1960s technology, we could build a hyperloop in 10 years if we really wanted to. Elon Musk is the Edison of our day.

Sadly, the most difficult thing about building this will be finding the political will to do so without people throwing around accusations of big government, and without the oil lobby pitching a fit.

LA to San Fran in 30 minutes.
LA to New York in 45 minutes.

Game changer.

[Strokin 3s]

Looks genius and practical. If we could put people on the moon with 1960s technology, we could build a hyperloop in 10 years if we really wanted to. Elon Musk is the Edison of our day.

Sadly, the most difficult thing about building this will be finding the political will to do so without people throwing around accusations of big government, and without the oil lobby pitching a fit.

LA to San Fran in 30 minutes.
LA to New York in 45 minutes.
Game changer.

Musk himself said longer trips = conventional air travel still makes more sense.

[Hards Alumni]

Looks genius and practical. If we could put people on the moon with 1960s technology, we could build a hyperloop in 10 years if we really wanted to. Elon Musk is the Edison of our day.

Sadly, the most difficult thing about building this will be finding the political will to do so without people throwing around accusations of big government, and without the oil lobby pitching a fit.

LA to San Fran in 30 minutes.
LA to New York in 45 minutes.

Game changer.

I don't understand where the LA to NYC in 45 minutes comes from.  Even if you do a calculation where its only 2500 miles from NYC to LA, that is still over 3 hours at 800 mph... which the Hyperloop wouldn't approach.  Musk has mentioned that any distance over 900 miles because prohibitively expensive compared to supersonic jet travel.

[Coleman]

You guys are right. The 45 minutes thing came from an NPR report I was listening to but looking over the document it sounds like that was just conjecture.

Musk says that supersonic air travel would be preferable to the hyperloop for distances over 900 miles. However, that has not been available since 2003 and has never been available for intracontinental flights in North America. The hyperloop from LA to NYC would still be better than anything we currently have in place. It travels twice as fast as a conventional jet.

It would be cool to see something like this in place in the midwest, although I doubt it would happen. The LA to San Fran route satisfies an obvious need. The northeast corridor would work too but they already have high speed rail there.

Would be interesteting to see a hyperloop connecting KC-StL-Chi-MKE-MNP in a circle...it would be an actual loop

[Pakuni]

Hy-per-loooop!!!!

[forgetful]

In Musk's calculations it would cost about 1/10 of what is proposed for the "high speed" rail ($68 billion)... I believe around $6-7 billion.  Totally reasonable.

edit: Here is a link to the pdf alpha proposal.  http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperloop-alpha.pdf

I think once all the safety concerns and actual development costs get wrapped into it it would be substantially more than $6-7 billion.  Even at that cost, he is looking at 6 million passengers per year at $20 a pop, that is $120 million per year, meaning it would take 50 years for a return on investment.  

Cost is a major concern.  Cheaper than rail, yes, if his cost estimates hold.  There is a good reason though why Musk is making this open source.

edit:  round trip is $40 so they estimate around 20 ish years.  Still a losing proposition as the lifetime of the solar panels, batteries etc are far less than this.

[Tugg Speedman]

Elon Musk is the Edison of our day.

More like Tony Stark (aka Iron Man)

[jesmu84]

This really is incredible. Could be a huge leap forward in transportation. You could have multiple loops up and down both coasts as well as throughout the midwest, eventually. Musk is no dummy. If someone can succeed with PayPal, Tesla and SpaceX (tbd), that's someone who could definitely succeed with Hyperloop. Oil lobby would be throwing a fit, but so would the airlines, Amtrak and possibly even big auto.

I think there is going to be a lot of political blowback as well. You think the state of California likes this idea? No way. If costs and speeds are true, then they are being absolutely embarrassed. And if I was a CA resident, I'd be furious my tax money was going to this other more expensive, slower project.

It's also incredible Musk is making it open source with no patents. It could literally be built by any entity. THat's awesome. I'm sure Musk has some sort of reason for doing so - perhaps because his solar panel company is successful and this thing would do well with solar panels, so he doesn't need the money from the actual train. I dunno. But if he really is so noble, it's a breath of fresh air from the majority of inventors/corporations.

[forgetful]

This really is incredible. Could be a huge leap forward in transportation. You could have multiple loops up and down both coasts as well as throughout the midwest, eventually. Musk is no dummy. If someone can succeed with PayPal, Tesla and SpaceX (tbd), that's someone who could definitely succeed with Hyperloop. Oil lobby would be throwing a fit, but so would the airlines, Amtrak and possibly even big auto.

I think there is going to be a lot of political blowback as well. You think the state of California likes this idea? No way. If costs and speeds are true, then they are being absolutely embarrassed. And if I was a CA resident, I'd be furious my tax money was going to this other more expensive, slower project.

It's also incredible Musk is making it open source with no patents. It could literally be built by any entity. THat's awesome. I'm sure Musk has some sort of reason for doing so - perhaps because his solar panel company is successful and this thing would do well with solar panels, so he doesn't need the money from the actual train. I dunno. But if he really is so noble, it's a breath of fresh air from the majority of inventors/corporations.

Not incredible at all, the whole proposition from a profits standpoint is a loser.  The power supplies, however, would entirely come from Musk property.  Thus, if he can get someone else (likely the government) to buy into the idea, he can turn a nice profit, without investing in a losing proposition.  Maybe others can find a way to make money off this.

As for the taxpayer money being wasted on rail?  Remember that this technology is completely unproven on the length scales that he is proposing, thus a substantial amount of money (Billions) would still have to be spent to prove that it could actually work as described and to verify that all safety precautions are made.  That process would take years (likely at least a decade to get past government regulations/safety).  You then still have to build the thing.

So the government is investing in proven technology that can be built now.  Is it a good idea, thats an entirely different debate and one that I don't want to get into.

[Coleman]

Check out my hyperloop!

[forgetful]

Check out my hyperloop!

Looks good, I would add Vegas, maybe Salt lake city.

[Benny B]

All of this hyperloop stuff will be stone-age once scientists invent magic.

[Hards Alumni]

Check out my hyperloop!

I was instantly reminded of this

[reinko]

Check out my hyperloop!

At 800mph, a Hyperloop from the MKE to CHI would be 7 minutes.  Boom.

[DegenerateDish]

At 800mph, a Hyperloop from the MKE to CHI would be 7 minutes.  Boom.

That should help recruiting.

[Coleman]

Looks good, I would add Vegas, maybe Salt lake city.

Vegas is included, direct routes to Phoenix and La.

[muwarrior69]

This all sounds like a pipe dream to me.

[martyconlonontherun]

I think once all the safety concerns and actual development costs get wrapped into it it would be substantially more than $6-7 billion.  Even at that cost, he is looking at 6 million passengers per year at $20 a pop, that is $120 million per year, meaning it would take 50 years for a return on investment.  

Cost is a major concern.  Cheaper than rail, yes, if his cost estimates hold.  There is a good reason though why Musk is making this open source.

edit:  round trip is $40 so they estimate around 20 ish years.  Still a losing proposition as the lifetime of the solar panels, batteries etc are far less than this.

I would think a $75 round-trip ticket would be a reasonable price. It is a 760 mile trip that would normally take 5.5 hours. You probably would spend that much on gas/parking anyways. You will also be cutting off 10 hours on your trip. The amtrak is $48 round trip from Chicago to Milwaukee. If they built one of these here, charged $60 round trip, and could get people there in 15 minutes I bet they would be packed.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I thought you misspelled hoopaloop.  Where did that guy go?  Seems like since Chicos has returned from his ban hoopaloop went into hiding.  Weird.  They must hate each other.  Something about a fight after a backyard beer summit where Chicos gave hoop some tickets to Disney.  They must've been used tickets and hoop left his money in Bloomington and couldn't get his children into Disney.

Don't forget, I must be BMA, too, since he's been gone.  Or how about Trekyfoil (who is deceased now), or how about Brad Forester...lots of people have been here and left, weird.  Weird.  So weird.

[77ncaachamps]

I'm more concerned about the high rate of speed.
And I'm
In California, so I'm more concerned about the lack of planning. LA to SF in 30 min is enticing but it's going to cross private land and Eco-sensitive territories.

But by the time this thing becomes a reality, teleportation or flying cars will probably have been invented.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So, is Hyperloop a concept that might happen someday? Pretty amazing stuff to read.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/15/could-the-hyperloop-really-cost-6-billion-critics-say-no/

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/16/elon-musk-hyperloop-going-nowhere