Take It To The Bank

[Floorslapper]

Except our zone was worse. Our defense wasn’t good no matter what we played. So the only option was to outscore opponents. Which meant gun, gun, gun. Suggesting otherwise would be DUMB.

I guess you ignored the first two years under Wojo when he slowed the pace down. He’s adjusted based on his personnel. To suggest he doesn’t is DUMB.

 

Actually our tempo increased in Year 2 and 3 over Year 1..and slowed slightly this year.  But.  Not nearly slow enough with our brutal defense.

And sorry, but the zone was never given proper application.  Repetition and exclusivity matter - in basically any application in life.  And, of course you need proper personnel, as in Jamal Cain playing 30 minutes in your zone.

Help me understand your continued bullish stance on Wojo?

[Its DJOver]

 

Actually our tempo increased in Year 2 and 3 over Year 1..and slowed slightly this year.  But.  Not nearly slow enough with our brutal defense.

And sorry, but the zone was never given proper application.  Repetition and exclusivity matter - in basically any application in life.  And, of course you need proper personnel, as in Jamal Cain playing 30 minutes in your zone.

Help me understand your continued bullish stance on Wojo?

Jamal can't play 5 positions at once, if we need proper personnel, which we do, then not having the proper personnel last year is reason enough not to run zone.

[MU82]

Ahh...sorry dude.  But, I was completely right about Buzz.  Said early on in his last year that he wasn't "right."  Clearly wasn't coaching at his optimum.  To no surprise he left 4 days after the season ended.  Couldn't get out of town fast enough.  No love lost toward MU Admin and BOT.  Messed with his happy, and he was really happy at MU through 4 years.  Gave them a big F-You on the way out the door his last year.

As I said, you contend that Wojo can never be close to as good a coach as Buzz ... but Buzz himself wasn't as good a coach as Buzz.

Why don't you tell us again that Rowsey will never be able to carry Magic Dawson's jockstrap?

Dude.

[bilsu]

Agree that Wojo isn't as good of an in game coach as Buzz, but he has shown improvement, which I think is very important.  His first year here, a lot of the time the offense was whatever Carlino or Duane could get by themselves.  Same his second year with Henry.

The fact that he is riding the hot hand more, shows his development in this area. Riding Sacar against CU, then coming back the next game and running multiple set plays for Sacar.  Still too much hero ball with AR and MH this year, but significantly less than we had when Carlino was here.  If Wojo continues to improve his in game adjustment (he's behind Buzz, but ahead of Crean IMO), he could become an above average in game coach in a coupe of seasons.

Wojo's first year might of been his best coaching year. Winning 13 games with that talent seems to me to be more impressive than winning 21 games with this year's talent.

[bilsu]

And Wojo thought that Markus would be his point guard.

Not as bad as thinking Cheatham was.

[Its DJOver]

Wojo's first year might of been his best coaching year. Winning 13 games with that talent seems to me to be more impressive than winning 21 games with this year's talent.

I don't know about that.  Two separate 6 game losing streaks, and a terrible loss to Omaha.  A lot of those wins were from extra bad cupcakes.  Wojo got all he could out of those guys, but the highlight of that year was getting a commit from Henry.

[Floorslapper]

Not as bad as thinking Cheatham was.

Ding. Ding. Ding. One of several decisions that formed my early opinion that he wasn’t going to be a good coach.  Playing Deonte Burton 15 minutes per game being another.  Derrick Wilson 35 a game with Carlino and Duane on the roster another.   Results speak for themselves so far..no NCAA tourney wins.

As we all know, Year 5 will be hugely important to Wojo. Big East will be down. Gotta guide this team to an NCAA bid at minimum to show some progress.

[Floorslapper]

As I said, you contend that Wojo can never be close to as good a coach as Buzz ... but Buzz himself wasn't as good a coach as Buzz.

Why don't you tell us again that Rowsey will never be able to carry Magic Dawson's jockstrap?

Dude.

What part of Buzz not giving an F his last year do you not understand?

And yet again another proactive Dawson mention. Also said in that post that size matters in Big East and Dawson was physically far beyond Rowsey - but then all you Wojo apologists used the we were undersized excuse all year long. Who’s fault is that?

[wadesworld]

What part of Buzz not giving an F his last year do you not understand?

And yet again another proactive Dawson mention. Also said in that post that size matters in Big East and Dawson was physically far beyond Rowsey - but then all you Wojo apologists used the we were undersized excuse all year long. Who’s fault is that?

Sure, have it both ways.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What part of Buzz not giving an F his last year do you not understand?

That fact that it is not true. Buzz was working his ass off to squeeze as much as he could out of that last roster so he could be in the best position possible for when he job searched.

[GGGG]

That fact that it is not true. Buzz was working his ass off to squeeze as much as he could out of that last roster so he could be in the best position possible for when he job searched.

Also just because someone may not be motivated to coach well, they still are ultimately responsible for their coaching.

[wadesworld]

That fact that it is not true. Buzz was working his ass off to squeeze as much as he could out of that last roster so he could be in the best position possible for when he job searched.

Yup.  Anyone who actually thinks that a coach would just throw the season out of spite because he could no longer get any and every little thing he asked the administration for has no clue what they are talking about.  That would be a heck of a way to introduce himself during job interviews.  AD: "So Buzz, you got the most out of your teams the first five seasons at Marquette.  Your last team had more talent than your record suggests.  What happened that last year?"  Buzz: "Well, future boss of mine, I didn't try to coach that team up at all because Marquette was no longer accommodating my every wish.  If I wanted to have more success I would have, but I was checked the eff out."  AD: "Wow, that's really impressive stuff!  Would you please start writing up the contract you would like from us and we'll simply sign on the dotted line when you're ready."

Hilarious that people actually buy into that.

[MU82]

Ners thinks Buzz tried to tank in 2013-14.

Maybe that's the way Ners did it as a high school basketball player - after averaging 50 ppg as a junior, he went down to a mere 40 ppg as a senior - but it's not the way college coaches do things in the real world.

[brewcity77]

Ahh...sorry dude.  But, I was completely right about Buzz.  Said early on in his last year that he wasn't "right."  Clearly wasn't coaching at his optimum.  To no surprise he left 4 days after the season ended.  Couldn't get out of town fast enough.  No love lost toward MU Admin and BOT.  Messed with his happy, and he was really happy at MU through 4 years.  Gave them a big F-You on the way out the door his last year.

I loved Buzz from the drop, and said 10 games in he would be our best coach since Al.  Sultan scoffed at my post at that time saying if Buzz stayed at MU for 10 years he'd lead us to Final Four/consistent Sweet 16/Elite 8 appearances.

"Listen, when I was right, I was right. And when I was wrong, I was right. And when there's definitive proof I was wrong, I was still somehow right. And when everyone can see beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was completely wrong, I'll shift the goalposts. So basically...I was right."

[Pakuni]

Yup.  Anyone who actually thinks that a coach would just throw the season out of spite because he could no longer get any and every little thing he asked the administration for has no clue what they are talking about.  That would be a heck of a way to introduce himself during job interviews.  AD: "So Buzz, you got the most out of your teams the first five seasons at Marquette.  Your last team had more talent than your record suggests.  What happened that last year?"  Buzz: "Well, future boss of mine, I didn't try to coach that team up at all because Marquette was no longer accommodating my every wish.  If I wanted to have more success I would have, but I was checked the eff out."  AD: "Wow, that's really impressive stuff!  Would you please start writing up the contract you would like from us and we'll simply sign on the dotted line when you're ready."

Hilarious that people actually buy into that.

I don't think Buzz intentionally tanked his last season at MU, but I believe there are ways one can tank a season without intending it.
What we can say is that team, unlike Buzz's prior teams, underachieved and played uninspired hoops for large stretches of that season. They often looked lost and confused on the court. And they showed little fight when they fell behind against quality opponents (see: blowout losses to Ohio State and Creighton). Before that season, Buzz had a 7-2 record in OT games. That year, they were 2-4.
Did Buzz set out to lose games that season? No chance.
Did Buzz coach and prepare his players with the same passion and intensity as he had in previous years? I suspect not.

[swoopem]

I ain’t always right but I’ve never been wrong. Seldom turns out the way it does in the song

[Lennys Tap]

You're trying to have it both ways, Lenny.
You can't laud Buzz for his work with an undersized team, but not hold him responsible for building an undersized team.

I'm not trying to have it both ways. Of course Buzz was responsible. He's the head coach. But he had one recruiting class to solve the problem he inherited. Wojo has been at this a little longer.

[MU82]

I don't think Buzz intentionally tanked his last season at MU, but I believe there are ways one can tank a season without intending it.
What we can say is that team, unlike Buzz's prior teams, underachieved and played uninspired hoops for large stretches of that season. They often looked lost and confused on the court. And they showed little fight when they fell behind against quality opponents (see: blowout losses to Ohio State and Creighton). Before that season, Buzz had a 7-2 record in OT games. That year, they were 2-4.
Did Buzz set out to lose games that season? No chance.
Did Buzz coach and prepare his players with the same passion and intensity as he had in previous years? I suspect not.

Buzz got surprised by Vander leaving and he didn't recruit well enough for that season, so he stuck himself with the worst starting backcourt in modern Marquette history.

K, Roy, Wright, Stevens, Shaka, Wojo ... the coach wouldn't have mattered ... you can't win with that backcourt.

Plus, Buzz lost McKay, who would have been an important player. (Wouldn't have solved the guard problem, though.)

We still had an outside chance at the NCAAs but we lost our last 3 regular-season games - including the last two each by 1 point in double-OT.

Losing by 1 in double-OT ... it's hard to say anybody (including the coach) remotely tanked anything (and you don't say differently, Pakuni).

Great teams - even good ones - rely upon their guards at nut-crunching time. Think how many times Vander (and even Junior) bailed us out the season before. That team did not have the option of getting great play from its guards at nut-crunching times. Most games, we would have settled for slightly-sub-mediocre and couldn't even get that.

It's easy to look lost and confused in that situation.

[Galway Eagle]

Buzz got surprised by Vander leaving and he didn't recruit well enough for that season, so he stuck himself with the worst starting backcourt in modern Marquette history.

K, Roy, Wright, Stevens, Shaka, Wojo ... the coach wouldn't have mattered ... you can't win with that backcourt.

Plus, Buzz lost McKay, who would have been an important player. (Wouldn't have solved the guard problem, though.)

We still had an outside chance at the NCAAs but we lost our last 3 regular-season games - including the last two each by 1 point in double-OT.

Losing by 1 in double-OT ... it's hard to say anybody (including the coach) remotely tanked anything (and you don't say differently, Pakuni).

Great teams - even good ones - rely upon their guards at nut-crunching time. Think how many times Vander (and even Junior) bailed us out the season before. That team did not have the option of getting great play from its guards at nut-crunching times. Most games, we would have settled for slightly-sub-mediocre and couldn't even get that.

It's easy to look lost and confused in that situation.

Also remember Duane got injured leaving us without even a solid freshman to spell Derrick

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Also remember Duane got injured leaving us without even a solid freshman to spell Derrick

Yea but I thought the rumour was Duane was ready to go by Christmas and it was Buzz' call for him to sit out the rest of the season, not Duane's or the doctors.

[Galway Eagle]

Yea but I thought the rumour was Duane was ready to go by Christmas and it was Buzz' call for him to sit out the rest of the season, not Duane's or the doctors.

Hahaha

[Lennys Tap]

Buzz got surprised by Vander leaving and he didn't recruit well enough for that season, so he stuck himself with the worst starting backcourt in modern Marquette history.

K, Roy, Wright, Stevens, Shaka, Wojo ... the coach wouldn't have mattered ... you can't win with that backcourt.

Plus, Buzz lost McKay, who would have been an important player. (Wouldn't have solved the guard problem, though.)

We still had an outside chance at the NCAAs but we lost our last 3 regular-season games - including the last two each by 1 point in double-OT.

Losing by 1 in double-OT ... it's hard to say anybody (including the coach) remotely tanked anything (and you don't say differently, Pakuni).

Great teams - even good ones - rely upon their guards at nut-crunching time. Think how many times Vander (and even Junior) bailed us out the season before. That team did not have the option of getting great play from its guards at nut-crunching times. Most games, we would have settled for slightly-sub-mediocre and couldn't even get that.

It's easy to look lost and confused in that situation.

100% agree.

[brewcity77]

Buzz got surprised by Vander leaving and he didn't recruit well enough for that season, so he stuck himself with the worst starting backcourt in modern Marquette history.

The real killer was having both Derrick and Jake out there together. We could've lived with Derrick if we had a dynamic two that could shoot from outside and slash inside next to him. We could've lived with Jake if we had a savvy, playmaking point that found guys in position to score. But both of them together? It's amazing how close that team was to being a tourney team when you consider that backcourt.

[Lennys Tap]

Also remember Duane got injured leaving us without even a solid freshman to spell Derrick

True

[bilsu]

I don't think Buzz intentionally tanked his last season at MU, but I believe there are ways one can tank a season without intending it.
What we can say is that team, unlike Buzz's prior teams, underachieved and played uninspired hoops for large stretches of that season. They often looked lost and confused on the court. And they showed little fight when they fell behind against quality opponents (see: blowout losses to Ohio State and Creighton). Before that season, Buzz had a 7-2 record in OT games. That year, they were 2-4.
Did Buzz set out to lose games that season? No chance.
Did Buzz coach and prepare his players with the same passion and intensity as he had in previous years? I suspect not.

Basketball is a guards game and a team with Thomas and Wilson was not going to be great.