The Last Recruit of 2009

[nola03]

At this point it's pretty much common thought that Marquette will look to secure a verbal commit from one more player in the 2009 class. We've got kids like Snaer, Parrom, Murray, Dower, Williams (Jordan or Derrick), etc. that we're either in tight with or they're getting interest lately from us.

That being the case, who would you like to see and what need do they provide?

[77ncaachamps]

Not sure of those guys.

But with Lawrence's commitment to SJU, it looks a like it's gotten a little tougher to get Parrom.

[nyg]

Snaer, the new #11 ranked overall recruit in Rivals. But again, how is this possible with no openings.  Something is going on here. 

[4everwarriors]

Snaer, the new #11 ranked overall recruit in Rivals. But again, how is this possible with no openings.  Something is going on here. 

That's easy, Buzz will just "pull a Crean."

[MUONTOP]

Is there seriously anyone that wouldn't say Snaer?  Its not even a question.

[detroitwarrior]

Snaer or Murray.

[mu ball]

Do you think they can land snaer without a scholly available?

[Blackhat]

You make room for a player of Snaer's caliber and Snaer knows it.   You'd probably have to be honest with a bench warmer in the program and tell them you don't see them in our future plans. 

[CAINMUTINY]

Scholarships are renewed on a yearly basis; so the shortage of scholarships is easily solved.

[NCMUFan]

If a player is unhappy and wants to transfer then I say let them and use their scholarship.  But I wouldn't want Marquette to get a reputation of pulling scholarships from one player to give to another.  I believe in what goes around comes around.  I can go to school X which has a reputation of pulling scholarships from one player to give to another, or I can go to school Y which doesn't do that practise.  Where would I go?  Well, probably a lot more peace of mind at school Y.

[Marquette84]

If a player is unhappy and wants to transfer then I say let them and use their scholarship.  But I wouldn't want Marquette to get a reputation of pulling scholarships from one player to give to another.  I believe in what goes around comes around.  I can go to school X which has a reputation of pulling scholarships from one player to give to another, or I can go to school Y which doesn't do that practise.  Where would I go?  Well, probably a lot more peace of mind at school Y.

Duke and UConn don't seem to have any problem attracting recruits, yet they are among the leaders in terms of transfers-out.  Wisconsin has had quite a few of these players.  Majerus has run quite a few players off the SLU roster.

I don't think we want players who's main goal  in choosing a school is "peace of mind." 

[NCMUFan]

Sure, we can treat players that way, but they are also students.  People are resilient and can adjust, but it's college hoops and the great majority aren't going to be NBA pro's.  We can also feel, who care's if they get a degree or not?  It's just a matter of priorities and what is important, not whether you can or not.  As stated earlier scholarships are renewed on a yearly basis.  What about all the good programs that don't have to attrition players to be consistent winners?  You can always find an exception.  What kind of reputation do you want though?

[ecompt]

absolutely, NCMU. I would hate MU to start shuttling players out in a numbers game. These players are, after all, still kids. I think Buzz is covering his tracks in case someone doesn't get his grades in order.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Boy some of you guys really want to have your cake and to eat it too!  Many of you including nola have no problem stating as a matter of fact that Buzz should have never gotten the job, additionally you say if Buzz does not win right away he should be fired.  Yet you are so high and mighty that he must also do it your way and with players that he did not recruit.  We all know that Crean signed alot of players that were not high D1 material and had no sense garnering a scholarship to Marquette: Berkowitz, Lott, Kinsella, Christopherson, and the list goes on.  So if say a kid is completely over his head yet the fan base feels Buzz needs to win right now you are totally against Buzz sitting down with that player and explaining that he has no future with the program.  Wow!! Snaer would be the one, MU needs another 2G.   

[Blackhat]

Boy some of you guys really want to have your cake and to eat it too!  Many of you including nola have no problem stating as a matter of fact that Buzz should have never gotten the job, additionally you say if Buzz does not win right away he should be fired.  Yet you are so high and mighty that he must also do it your way and with players that he did not recruit.  We all know that Crean signed alot of players that were not high D1 material and had no sense garnering a scholarship to Marquette: Berkowitz, Lott, Kinsella, Christopherson, and the list goes on.  So if say a kid is completely over his head yet the fan base feels Buzz needs to win right now you are totally against Buzz sitting down with that player and explaining that he has no future with the program.  Wow!! Snaer would be the one, MU needs another 2G.   

Agree 100%.  And the day we get kids who come to MU for "peace of mind" is the day we're screwed.    If you don't see a future for a kid and he wants to actually play in college the only right thing to do is inform him and let him decide.   

[NCMUFan]

Looks, it's nice to blame Crean for a recruit that apparently doesn't meet your standards.  But what happens when the Crean recruits are gone?  Now do you say to Jimmy Butler.  Well you were really just a last minute fill in?  And after that - Well I thought you were better than you really are?  It just gets cheesier as you go. 

[77ncaachamps]

Will Cook's denial of a 6th year (!!!) influence Parrom?

I'm unsure about their scholly situation.

[nola03]

Yawn   

Your agenda is laughable. It's like you're a politician. Ignore everything around you and just stick to the message over and over and over again. It's stupid. And childish.

That crap is over. You need to pay attention. And you need to move the unnatural carnal knowledge on. I have. I'm offering topics to the board to discuss basketball issues. Not our coaching process. Not the politics of who likes whom. Not dwelling on Crean's moves at Indiana like others do (far, far too often).

I've praised Buzz and given him credit far more then criticized him in the past two months. But the only thing you, Buzz' Bulldog, and others want to remember is that I, and many, many others, didn't fawn over Cottingham and his choice the instant it was made. It's a shame when people hold your rationality against you.

Sorry for the mini-rant everyone. It's Friday and I'm bored.

[Blackhat]

Your agenda is laughable. It's like you're a politician. Ignore everything around you and just stick to the message over and over and over again. It's stupid. And childish.

That crap is over. You need to pay attention. And you need to move the frack on. I have. I'm offering topics to the board to discuss basketball issues. Not our coaching process. Not the politics of who likes whom. Not dwelling on Crean's moves at Indiana like others do (far, far too often).

I've praised Buzz and given him credit far more then criticized him in the past two months. But the only thing you, Buzz' Bulldog, and others want to remember is that I, and many, many others, didn't fawn over Cottingham and his choice the instant it was made. It's a shame when people hold your rationality against you.

Sorry for the mini-rant everyone. It's Friday and I'm bored.

It seems like you're just dismissing his statement and instead just attacking Hayward.   Would you want to see Buzz fired if we went to the NIT in '09 and '10?   If the answer is yes, then you probably shouldn't play high and mighty on Buzz if he wants his shot with his own players.

[nola03]

It seems like you're just dismissing his statement and instead just attacking Hayward.   Would you want to see Buzz fired if we went to the NIT in '09 and '10?   If the answer is yes, then you probably shouldn't play high and mighty on Buzz if he wants his shot with his own players.

You caught on that I was attacking hayward? I admitted that in my post.   

As to your last point, when in this thread did I ever play "high and mighty"? I started the thread asking people who they wanted with the last recruit of 2009 and never wrote anything about Buzz being fired.

Besides, why would I want to fire a coach I've praised recently?

[Blackhat]

"Many of you including nola have no problem stating as a matter of fact that Buzz should have never gotten the job, additionally you say if Buzz does not win right away he should be fired. "

Is this accurate?

[bilsu]

We do not know if Buzz will over recruit. He may be just keeping his options open. We also do not know if a player is considering transferring or if possibly Acker will not come back as a 5th year senior.

[Murffieus]

"Many of you including nola have no problem stating as a matter of fact that Buzz should have never gotten the job, additionally you say if Buzz does not win right away he should be fired. "

Is this accurate?

The only thing we have to go on as far as Buzz the coach is what he did at UNO 2 years ago as HC. Had a very good offensive team (#56 efficiency rank---RPI)----however his defense was  horrible with a 313 efficiency defensive rank.

Buzz seems very laid back/easy going-----returning players are used to Crean pushing them hard. Usually that doesn't work-----Buzz is going to have to be very demanding!

[NCMUFan]

The post was originally about recruits.  Unfortunately I started to follow a thread in regards to the fact scholarships are only a year and then renewed and now it is a starting to be a thread about Buzz and winning.  Buzz's first season at New Orleans may have been as Murf stated.  But listening to what the new recruits have said about being at Marquette and about weaknesses they need to improve does not give me the impressions that Buzz does not expect 110% from his players.

[nola03]

"Many of you including nola have no problem stating as a matter of fact that Buzz should have never gotten the job, additionally you say if Buzz does not win right away he should be fired. "

Is this accurate?

As we sit here today, no that is not accurate. Not sure I've ever been that black-and-white with Buzz.

Again, what's the point of belaboring this agenda when I've been praiseworthy of Buzz over the last two months?

[Big Papi]

Buzz seems very laid back/easy going-----returning players are used to Crean pushing them hard. Usually that doesn't work-----Buzz is going to have to be very demanding!

While Buzz might be laidback by the way he talks, Dom painted a completely different picture about how hard Buzz has them working out.  He was pushing them harder than TC and that is saying something so I will talk Dom's actual experience with Buzz over your guess.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Boy some of you guys really want to have your cake and to eat it too!  Many of you including nola have no problem stating as a matter of fact that Buzz should have never gotten the job, additionally you say if Buzz does not win right away he should be fired.  Yet you are so high and mighty that he must also do it your way and with players that he did not recruit.  We all know that Crean signed alot of players that were not high D1 material and had no sense garnering a scholarship to Marquette: Berkowitz, Lott, Kinsella, Christopherson, and the list goes on.  So if say a kid is completely over his head yet the fan base feels Buzz needs to win right now you are totally against Buzz sitting down with that player and explaining that he has no future with the program.  Wow!! Snaer would be the one, MU needs another 2G.   

First off, very few people have said Buzz shouldn't have gotten the job.  SOME of us have said he shouldn't have been the 2nd or 3rd choice.  Big difference.  That doesn't mean Buzz shouldn't have received the job....this has been stated over and over and over again.

As for Lott & Christopherson not being high D1 material.  Wow.  For you to say that and also be constantly harping about who's recruiting who.  Christopherson (who by the way transferred to a Big 12 school) was offered by Washington State, MU and Wisconsin.  He would have been offered by more if he hadn't verballed so early...please tell me WSU and UW are mid-majors.  Please tell me Iowa State, where he is now, is a mid-major.

Jamil Lott was offered by Creighton, Colorado, Texas A&M, Georgia and USC.  Yup, those are all mid-majors.  

There is no doubt there were some reaches....and guess what, Buzz will have some too (he may have two on their now for all we know).  Kinsella was a reach, but you can't teach height so a risk worth taking.  Niv was a bust.  Buzz will have some too, you better prepare yourself.

But please, your broad brush is painting some players inaccurately.

[MR.HAYWARD]

I could care less who offered those guys...lott and Chrsitopherson were not High D1 and their on the court performance has proven it.  A lot of guys score 25 agame agaisnt nobodies, it is a coaches job to evaluate whether or not they can do it at a higher level.  Neither had the athletic ability to score or defend at the high D1 level constitutes a ....whiff!


Nola-  now coming on here sayinghe has been complimentary of Buzz if got to be a freaking joke....you forgot the teal buddy.

Bottom line whether nola strted the argumnet or not it has been brought up numerous times on this board of "should buzz still be recruiting?"  i will say it again it is ironic that many of the same people that have said buzz should not have been hired ( Ok to appease Chico....the process was flawed)  have also said buzz should be let go immediately if not successful  are then those same people saying Buzz should not be over recruiting. it's a joke.  Him being succesful is a win now baby proposition by many yet he is given no flexibilty, give me a break i will take a snaer for say a Hazel in a heartbeat he is another ina long line of Crean misses. Then someone wants to say "well what abaout a few years from now when creans kids are gone...well obviously that is a completely different topic and the win now and second guessing by the geniuses on this board have probably gone by the way side although you will still chant the "it was a flawed process" mantra

[Murffieus]

While Buzz might be laidback by the way he talks, Dom painted a completely different picture about how hard Buzz has them working out.  He was pushing them harder than TC and that is saying something so I will talk Dom's actual experience with Buzz over your guess.

There isn't a coach in the country who worked his guys as hard as Crean------whoever Dom is, is embellishing!

[MUBasketball]

Your agenda is laughable. It's like you're a politician. Ignore everything around you and just stick to the message over and over and over again. It's stupid. And childish.

That crap is over. You need to pay attention. And you need to move the frack on. I have. I'm offering topics to the board to discuss basketball issues. Not our coaching process. Not the politics of who likes whom. Not dwelling on Crean's moves at Indiana like others do (far, far too often).

I've praised Buzz and given him credit far more then criticized him in the past two months. But the only thing you, Buzz' Bulldog, and others want to remember is that I, and many, many others, didn't fawn over Cottingham and his choice the instant it was made. It's a shame when people hold your rationality against you.

Sorry for the mini-rant everyone. It's Friday and I'm bored.

I assume your referring to me?

I'm not "Buzz' Bulldog", whatever that even means. I've just always been very high on him, dating back to his UNO tenure (I attended his first game as a head coach there while in town for work). Granted, I didn't know a thing about him prior to attending that game, but I read up on him and liked what I heard. Then, less than a year later, he's joining Crean's staff at MU...very bizarre! I thought then, and still do now, that he will be a star in the business. I am thrilled MU went with the underdog candidate, to hell with the "name" guy (which guarantees nothing).

To this point, I've been right, and Buzz was a great choice. I am happy you're finally warming to him. Maybe I listen to too much sports talk radio, but sports fans drive me nuts. Jumping on a guy before even giving him a chance (Buzz, Aaron Rodgers, for example).

[MUSF]

I could care less who offered those guys...lott and Chrsitopherson were not High D1 and their on the court performance has proven it.  A lot of guys score 25 agame agaisnt nobodies, it is a coaches job to evaluate whether or not they can do it at a higher level.  Neither had the athletic ability to score or defend at the high D1 level constitutes a ....whiff!


Nola-  now coming on here sayinghe has been complimentary of Buzz if got to be a freaking joke....you forgot the teal buddy.

Bottom line whether nola strted the argumnet or not it has been brought up numerous times on this board of "should buzz still be recruiting?"  i will say it again it is ironic that many of the same people that have said buzz should not have been hired ( Ok to appease Chico....the process was flawed)  have also said buzz should be let go immediately if not successful  are then those same people saying Buzz should not be over recruiting. it's a joke.  Him being succesful is a win now baby proposition by many yet he is given no flexibilty, give me a break i will take a snaer for say a Hazel in a heartbeat he is another ina long line of Crean misses. Then someone wants to say "well what abaout a few years from now when creans kids are gone...well obviously that is a completely different topic and the win now and second guessing by the geniuses on this board have probably gone by the way side although you will still chant the "it was a flawed process" mantra

Now you sound absolutely ridiculous.  Coaches, great coaches, miss on recruits all the time.  There are kids that sign with UNC, Duke, Kansas, etc.... that don't live up to their expected potential.

For every DWade "diamond in the rough," there are a dozen Kinsellas. Buzz will have his Berkowitz, you can count on it.

You would take Snaer over Hazel?  No S***!?!  Who wouldn't? That's like saying Ill take the Moet over the Mad Dog.  A recruit like Snaer wouldn't even be considering MU if it weren't for the success Crean has brought over the past 8 years.  Without recruits like DWade, Diener, Novak, James, McNeal, their would be no Snaer.  If a coach with Buzz Williams resume took over for Deane, he wouldn't be allowed in Snaer's living room.  No doubt Buzz has recruiting chops and it is entirely possible, if not probable, that he will turn out to be a better recruiter than Crean but TC's success got him in those kid's houses.

I'm tired of sounding like a slobbering Crean groupie here but the desire by some to re-write history and pretend he wasn't a very good coach is intolerable to me.  I don't think Crean was/is a great coach but he is/was very good and he was exactly what MU needed at the time he was hired.  Please, don't let your bitterness skew reality.

[Tulsa Warrior]

I couldn't agree with you more MUSF.  In retrospect my main problem with Crean was how he exited not that he made an exit.  That also elicited some questions about how genuine he really was and is.  During his stay at Marquette he had the most success the school has seen since the glory days of the 60s and 70s.  For that he deserves credit.

It's been fun these past few months trying to figure out where the program is going from here.  Marquette still does not have many of the natural advantages of major public state universities.  That said -- some interesting things are happening that hold tremendous promise.  This may be a perfect situation for Buzz -- a perfect storm where ambition, talents, temperment, resources and opportunities all meet.  We'll see.

[Murffieus]

Crean had some significant disagreements with the new AD, which is why he left in a "huff". but still he shouldn't have burned a bridge----normally he's very PR orientated and does everything "prim & proper" in his public dealings, but this time the emotional part of him got the best of him.

[4everwarriors]

Won't have that problem this time as he gets to hand pick his boss. If Crean had issues with Cottingham, then I've gained a whole lot of respect for Steve and think he was a fanastic hire.

[Big Papi]

There isn't a coach in the country who worked his guys as hard as Crean------whoever Dom is, is embellishing!

Again I will take Dom as in Dominic James word and other on the team over your desire to spew garbage just to hear yourself talk.  Crean worked them hard, Buzz is working them harder.

[Tulsa Warrior]

Buzz works them harder?  I'll judge that after an entire year.  There should be a time to work hard in practice and training and a time to focus on the season.  I'm interested in seeing how he the new coach deals with the pacing issue.  We don't have enough info to determine the difference between the two head coaches.

[MR.HAYWARD]

MUSF-

Not a knock on Crean that he signed duds, I agree every coach will...my only point is some people that say Buzz should have never been hired also say his leash should be incredibly short.  My point is he as the new coach should have the ability to sit down with Crean's misses and reevaluate their position with the team.  It very well may be he is entirely happy with his future roster and is simply recruiting as a contingency, or it may be he has a guy or two that know this is their last year and Buzz is recruiting to fill their spots.  My point all along is that is his perogative it happens everywhere and it is nice to be so high and mighty to say he should not do that but those are the exact same people saying he should be fired if he does not win immediately!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

MUSF-

Not a knock on Crean that he signed duds, I agree every coach will...my only point is some people that say Buzz should have never been hired also say his leash should be incredibly short.  My point is he as the new coach should have the ability to sit down with Crean's misses and reevaluate their position with the team.  It very well may be he is entirely happy with his future roster and is simply recruiting as a contingency, or it may be he has a guy or two that know this is their last year and Buzz is recruiting to fill their spots.  My point all along is that is his perogative it happens everywhere and it is nice to be so high and mighty to say he should not do that but those are the exact same people saying he should be fired if he does not win immediately!!

Expectations are going to be very high this year, this team is top 25, returns 3 all Big East players, returns 4 starters, has gone to the NCAAs 3 straight years, was one second away from going to the Sweet 16 last year.

How would any intelligent person not expect HIGH SUCCESS this season whether it is Crean, Williams or Barry Switzer coaching this team.  It's a given.  If he does fail with this talent, what would that say.....wow. 

I expect this team to roll this year with the experience and talent coming back, a health Trevor, etc.  Anything short of a similar seed to last year and similar finish in the Big East would be a disappointment.  I won't worry about how far we go in the post season as that's a crap shoot, but Crean gift wrapped this team for whomever took over...happens to be Buzz.  He should roll with this club this season.

[RedWebster]

If the team fails this season for whatever reason, Buzz Williams credibility would likely never recover. I don't care what anybody says, hiring him was a HUGE gamble.

[Pardner]

If the team fails this season for whatever reason, Buzz Williams credibility would likely never recover. I don't care what anybody says, hiring him was a HUGE gamble.

Considering Buzz has two recruiting classes signed up and working on a third before he has even coached a game at MU--and seeing us mentioned with top kids no less--shows the gamble is paying off.  By also attracting two experienced assistants, Buzz has been wise to move to close the gap on his lack of game coaching experience.  I am not forgetting that Buzz was head coach for a year--hopefully cutting his teeth and making his mistakes.   It really is amazing that he has moved so quickly to get top commits to close both classes.  That says alot about his credibility and stick-to-it-ness.

I sometimes think the F4 appearance so early in his tenure hurt TC as his ego wouldn't allow that he would make stumbles after that early success.  TC will be wiser at IU.  Let's hope Buzz is too.

[Phi Iota Gamma 84]

I thought this was about the last recruit .... my mistake

[MUSF]

MUSF-

Not a knock on Crean that he signed duds, I agree every coach will...my only point is some people that say Buzz should have never been hired also say his leash should be incredibly short.  My point is he as the new coach should have the ability to sit down with Crean's misses and reevaluate their position with the team.  It very well may be he is entirely happy with his future roster and is simply recruiting as a contingency, or it may be he has a guy or two that know this is their last year and Buzz is recruiting to fill their spots.  My point all along is that is his perogative it happens everywhere and it is nice to be so high and mighty to say he should not do that but those are the exact same people saying he should be fired if he does not win immediately!!

Generally, I agree with you on this point.  For the most part, coaches should be judged on their performance once they get their own guys in place to implement their system.  However, I'm not sure Buzz will or should get much latitude this year because of a few factors specific to his situation.

First, Buzz is inheriting a very talented and experienced team.  A significant drop off would be pretty disappointing given the roster.  This team is built to win now and the fact that Dom, Wesley, and Jerel are seniors means a big change in philosophy implemented in Buzz's first year would be pretty much pointless, which leads me to my second point.  Buzz was an assistant on the staff last year, so he is framilliar with the personnel and the offensive and defensive plays/philosophies.  It would be hard to justify a complete change in those areas by someone intimately familliar with the program and I would guess that it would also go against one of the main reasons for hiring him, continuity.  Third, Buzz was not an established head coach with an established system or philosophy.  I'm sure Buzz has a philosophy and plenty of thoughts on how he wants to run his program but he does not have a system or philosophy that has an established track record of success.  Therefore, it would be un-wise to attempt to push a certain system/philosophy in his first year with a team that has had a significant amount of success.  If we had brought in a guy like Bennett, you may accept more shake-up in year one because his system and philosophy has proven successful in the past and you know when you hire a guy like him that he is going to implement his system and adjust the roster accordingly.

Buzz wasn't hired because of his record as a head coach. He was hired for continuity and on potential.  Translation: Don't shake things up too much too early.  Build on the teams previous success.  Go recruit and work your ass off to take MU to the next level or you will be coaching at Kalamazoo College in 3-6 years. 

[HarryBalczak]

There isn't a coach in the country who worked his guys as hard as Crean------whoever Dom is, is embellishing!

I'm assuming Dom is Dominic James and he told me the same thing.  Why would Dominic lie?

[Murffieus]

If Buzz doesn't finish in the top 3 of the BE -----he's not long for this world. He inherits a very talented/veteran team-----so far they have bought in----if Buzz knows how to coach he'll achieve THIS year whether his recruits or not -----non-withstanding!

[Murffieus]

I'm assuming Dom is Dominic James and he told me the same thing.  Why would Dominic lie?

DJ is embellishing. If Buzz works them any harder than Crean, there won't be a man standing by March.

[TVDirector]

YOU are saying that a player/athlete who actually HAS worked under both coaches and is making a comparison is EMBELLISHING??
YOU??????
 

the best argument would have been one of hearsay, not embellishment by the always understated grateone, or however you choose to misspell it!
but whatever--- that's really neither here nor there...

I did want to ask, Murff, if you truly think that Buzz is 'not long for this world' if he doesn't finish in the BE top 3?... I'm assuming you don't mean he'll be rubbed out Gotti-style: rather released from his MU duties- but only after ONE year?  two?  you don't give a time frame, but you insinuate it's like now with TC's recruits and a highly rated team.. which might not be the same situation next year sans Dom, Wes, Jer.

I can't imagine that MU would show him the door that quickly-
it's not the Univ's style to do such a turnaround.... some will point to the 'GOLD' fiasco, but I still contend that was a ruse to get folks pumped up to keep golden eagles vs. debates to go back to warriors- but I digress.

Fr. Wild et al would have a great egg mess on their face if they boot buzz after just one season--- especially considering the fashion and timing of TC skeedaddle and buzz's hiring.

not to give their apparent and hand-picked and groomed head coach more than a year or two would be ridiculous.

[Murffieus]

We've been waiting 4 years for this year-----very veteran and talented team-----the pressure is on Buzz to meet expectations this year (top 3 in BE and/or deep into the NCAA). It will be a long time before MU is so
uniquely positioned. Would help recruiting as well, as Buzz is an unknown quantity as a coach at this point.

No, I'm not saying MU show him the door, if he doesn't meet expectations. He's got a six year contract I believe. But there will be a lot of disappointment in the MU community if this season falls short.

[muball]

This team lacks a post player which will make it tough in the BEast. Ooze did not score alot but he did cause some problem for other teams with his speed. We will be smaller at the 5 position and someone Burke/Trevor/Otule need to improve considerably. I would be happy with 12 wins or more in the BEast considering all the coaching changes.

[Murffieus]

Just about every team has a weakness going into a season-----that's why I don't pick us #1 in the BE and the final 4. But also it is incumbant on a coach to develop people with such deficiencies to become more effective in those positions. That's why we have coaches and not managers----to teach people to improve!

[Marquette84]

Just about every team has a weakness going into a season-----that's why I don't pick us #1 in the BE and the final 4. But also it is incumbant on a coach to develop people with such deficiencies to become more effective in those positions. That's why we have coaches and not managers----to teach people to improve!

Can you please reconcile your previous statements that you can't win without an inside stud with your current statement that MU should be at least 14-4 in the Big East and in the top 3.

Unless you have a coaching approach that would add 3 inches to Burke or Mbakwe, or you're expecting that Otule plays like a lottery pick out of the gate, this team will has a structural deficiencies that may mean that we have roughly the same competitiveness as last year.

[Murffieus]

Mbakwe has loads of talent----needs to be coached! Burke is as physically strong a #5 as there is in the BE----has shown flashes of brilliance (monster putback dunks)-----reteach him how to postup (he came here with that basic skill)-----needs agility drills.

We are very strong at the other 4 positions----so we don't need an Oden at #5 to go 14-4!

[MUBasketball]

This long thread reminds me how happy I am Murf has been practically banned from the Scout board.

Your demanding a top 3 finish in the league this year? Wow. Do you remember MU is in the Big East, not C-USA anymore? This is a monster league, and will be stronger than ever (it appears) this year. Crean has had talented teams the past three years in the league, and never got a Top 3 finish. Is this team any more talented than the previous three? More experienced with the Amigos, but still has holes in the middle.

There are really good teams in the league that finish in the 4-8 range of the league. A lot of things have to go right to be fortunate to finish in one of those top spots. To claim that MU not finishing in that Top 3 is unacceptable is completely ridiculous.

Yes, I have high expectations this season...but I also realize many of the other teams in the league have just as much talent.

[detroitwarrior]

 "This long thread reminds me how happy I am Murf has been practically banned from the Scout board. "

Agreed. I thought this thread was about the last potential recruit in 2009 but has been hijacked once again by someone who again shows a remarkable ability to duck and weave like a politician when his outlandish statements questioning the "truthfullness" of Dominic James' comments about the training regimen under Buzz compared to Crean and what it takes to win in the Big East are pointed out. Thank God for the premium board on Scout.

[Murffieus]

This long thread reminds me how happy I am Murf has been practically banned from the Scout board.

Your demanding a top 3 finish in the league this year? Wow. Do you remember MU is in the Big East, not C-USA anymore? This is a monster league, and will be stronger than ever (it appears) this year. Crean has had talented teams the past three years in the league, and never got a Top 3 finish. Is this team any more talented than the previous three? More experienced with the Amigos, but still has holes in the middle.

There are really good teams in the league that finish in the 4-8 range of the league. A lot of things have to go right to be fortunate to finish in one of those top spots. To claim that MU not finishing in that Top 3 is unacceptable is completely ridiculous.

Yes, I have high expectations this season...but I also realize many of the other teams in the league have just as much talent.

I'm not banned from the Scout Board----where did you get that idea?

I'm expecting no more or no less than what the pundits are saying-----and the pundits are saying MU #3 in the BE----a few are even saying #2.

[tower912]

Completely correct, Murf.   Not banned.   Limited.

[RedWebster]

This long thread reminds me how happy I am Murf has been practically banned from the Scout board.

You gotta love a message board that limits the posts of somebody they disagree with, but thinks nothing of a couple of 30-somethings trolling for female companionship. Let's hope some of those guys aren't posting at their local library.

Yikes.

[HarryBalczak]

A quick summary of what happened with Murff's situation over there.

Murff saw some video clips and questioned parts of Junior Cadougan's abilities and didn't feel Junior would succeed in the Big East.  Fine, that's his opinion.

After having success at the NBAPA Camp in mid June, Junior continued to have success at the Reebok Camp, the Adidas 64 tourney and the Double Pump tourney in July and finally, at the Adidas Nations camp in early August.  Junior led his team to the camp championship at NBPA and to the finals of the Reebok Camp championship. He then led Grassroots Canada to the Adidas 64 tourney championship which solidified an excellent summer.  He also played very well at the Double Pump tourney in late July in LA, but his team left prior to the quarterfinal round.

All along the way, Murff was looking for negatives with Junior and asking about stats and saying he wasn't playing good teams or players even though Junior had gone head to head with the top 10 point guards in the country, save 1.  Murff wondered why Rivals and Scout didn't have him in the nations top 100 prior to July when other websites did rank him in the top 100.  When he was shut down in one game, Murff immediately brought it up and now Dave Telep says that defender, Avery Bradley, is the top defender in the 2009 class.

What has now happened is that Junior Cadougan's play has pushed into basically every top 100 ranking, including Rivals and Scout, and he probably averages around #50 in the rankings.  Some, including Dave Telep and Clark Francis, have pushed Junior into the top 5 among the 2009 point guards and virtually every one of them has stated how well he runs a team as a true point and that they expect him to do the same at the collegiate level.  Dave Telep even stated publicly that he missed the boat with Junior.

The degree to which Murff went to support his earlier opinion became a joke and that's when John Dodds stepped in called it too much.

[Murffieus]

Harry----somewhat incorrect.

What I said is that I saw a video where I thought that Junior was not very atletic and not quick for a PG------I think everyone agrees with that. I also said that Junior sees the floor very well in transition and passes well both in the half court and in transition. I also noticed a flaw in his perimiter shooting form and even though every shot goes in I siad that he isn't a good perimeter shooter. Jon Giviony's recent article cited the same thing about his 3 point form. He's better shooter off the pullup though, but there is something I saw there that I would change as well. Givony also questioned Junior's upside because of his lack of quickness and athleticism----and I agree with that.

Can you picture DJ playing PG in the BE without his athleticism and quickness----well I can, but I think it's fair to say that he wouldn't be as effective. What say you?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not banned from the Scout Board----where did you get that idea?

I'm expecting no more or no less than what the pundits are saying-----and the pundits are saying MU #3 in the BE----a few are even saying #2.

Just to be fair, the pundits haven't released any official predictions.  The pundits are often very wrong as well.  The Big East coaches predictions I don't believe are out yet and won't be for another 6 weeks or so.

[ChicosBailBonds]

A quick summary of what happened with Murff's situation over there.

Murff saw some video clips and questioned parts of Junior Cadougan's abilities and didn't feel Junior would succeed in the Big East.  Fine, that's his opinion.

After having success at the NBAPA Camp in mid June, Junior continued to have success at the Reebok Camp, the Adidas 64 tourney and the Double Pump tourney in July and finally, at the Adidas Nations camp in early August.  Junior led his team to the camp championship at NBPA and to the finals of the Reebok Camp championship. He then led Grassroots Canada to the Adidas 64 tourney championship which solidified an excellent summer.  He also played very well at the Double Pump tourney in late July in LA, but his team left prior to the quarterfinal round.

All along the way, Murff was looking for negatives with Junior and asking about stats and saying he wasn't playing good teams or players even though Junior had gone head to head with the top 10 point guards in the country, save 1.  Murff wondered why Rivals and Scout didn't have him in the nations top 100 prior to July when other websites did rank him in the top 100.  When he was shut down in one game, Murff immediately brought it up and now Dave Telep says that defender, Avery Bradley, is the top defender in the 2009 class.

What has now happened is that Junior Cadougan's play has pushed into basically every top 100 ranking, including Rivals and Scout, and he probably averages around #50 in the rankings.  Some, including Dave Telep and Clark Francis, have pushed Junior into the top 5 among the 2009 point guards and virtually every one of them has stated how well he runs a team as a true point and that they expect him to do the same at the collegiate level.  Dave Telep even stated publicly that he missed the boat with Junior.

The degree to which Murff went to support his earlier opinion became a joke and that's when John Dodds stepped in called it too much.

Jim....Jim is that you?  LOL

[Red Baron]

Harry----somewhat incorrect.

What I said is that I saw a video where I thought that Junior was not very atletic and not quick for a PG------I think everyone agrees with that.



Let me be the first to say your statement about JC is a PILE of CRAP.

[Murffieus]

Check out:

www.draftexpress.com/profile/Junior-Cadougan-5284/playerblog/

[Marquette84]

I'm expecting no more or no less than what the pundits are saying-----and the pundits are saying MU #3 in the BE----a few are even saying #2.

Second request. Please provide the names and/or links to the pundits who have MU #2 or #3.

[Murffieus]

I was mistaken on that ( I was thinking of the preseason rankings for the 2007-08 season where we were picked #3----in some cases #2)-----I see where we are now ranked #5, 6, or even 7, in the BE, which is based on the fact that we underachieved last year finishing at #5 or #6. Also I recall all the optimism on the boards 3 years ago about the senior season for DJ, JM, and WM.

But maybe Buzz can get us back on track!

[TallTitan34]

Looks like we have another free scholarship with Mbakwe's departure.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Expectations are going to be very high this year, this team is top 25, returns 3 all Big East players, returns 4 starters, has gone to the NCAAs 3 straight years, was one second away from going to the Sweet 16 last year.

How would any intelligent person not expect HIGH SUCCESS this season whether it is Crean, Williams or Barry Switzer coaching this team.  It's a given.  If he does fail with this talent, what would that say.....wow. 

I expect this team to roll this year with the experience and talent coming back, a health Trevor, etc.  Anything short of a similar seed to last year and similar finish in the Big East would be a disappointment.  I won't worry about how far we go in the post season as that's a crap shoot, but Crean gift wrapped this team for whomever took over...happens to be Buzz.  He should roll with this club this season.



Chicos i do not disagree with you on that and I think anyone in their right mind including Buzz and staff would agree.  But i know there is great concern for year two.  Not only will expectations still be high they might even be higher and the naysayers will credit any slip ups with crean and his 3 amigos being gone.  the real concern is aprt from the 3 amigos Crean did not exactly stock the shelves.  lazar and Trevor are the only two current concensus top 100 plaers on the roster sans the 3 amigos.  we struggle in year two and the wolves and vultures will circle and recruits could cast a skepticla eye, Buzz needs to win big in year two and he knows it getting real with a couple of guys that will contribute nothing in 09-10 is his and the programs best hope.

[Blackhat]

Expectations are going to be very high this year, this team is top 25, returns 3 all Big East players, returns 4 starters, has gone to the NCAAs 3 straight years, was one second away from going to the Sweet 16 last year.

How would any intelligent person not expect HIGH SUCCESS this season whether it is Crean, Williams or Barry Switzer coaching this team.  It's a given.  If he does fail with this talent, what would that say.....wow. 

I expect this team to roll this year with the experience and talent coming back, a health Trevor, etc.  Anything short of a similar seed to last year and similar finish in the Big East would be a disappointment.  I won't worry about how far we go in the post season as that's a crap shoot, but Crean gift wrapped this team for whomever took over...happens to be Buzz.  He should roll with this club this season.



Chicos i do not disagree with you on that and I think anyone in their right mind including Buzz and staff would agree.  But i know there is great concern for year two.  Not only will expectations still be high they might even be higher and the naysayers will credit any slip ups with crean and his 3 amigos being gone.  the real concern is aprt from the 3 amigos Crean did not exactly stock the shelves.  lazar and Trevor are the only two current concensus top 100 plaers on the roster sans the 3 amigos.  we struggle in year two and the wolves and vultures will circle and recruits could cast a skepticla eye, Buzz needs to win big in year two and he knows it getting real with a couple of guys that will contribute nothing in 09-10 is his and the programs best hope.

You are one cold bastard. 

[reinko]

Expectations are going to be very high this year, this team is top 25, returns 3 all Big East players, returns 4 starters, has gone to the NCAAs 3 straight years, was one second away from going to the Sweet 16 last year.

How would any intelligent person not expect HIGH SUCCESS this season whether it is Crean, Williams or Barry Switzer coaching this team.  It's a given.  If he does fail with this talent, what would that say.....wow. 

I expect this team to roll this year with the experience and talent coming back, a health Trevor, etc.  Anything short of a similar seed to last year and similar finish in the Big East would be a disappointment.  I won't worry about how far we go in the post season as that's a crap shoot, but Crean gift wrapped this team for whomever took over...happens to be Buzz.  He should roll with this club this season.



Chicos i do not disagree with you on that and I think anyone in their right mind including Buzz and staff would agree.  But i know there is great concern for year two.  Not only will expectations still be high they might even be higher and the naysayers will credit any slip ups with crean and his 3 amigos being gone.  the real concern is aprt from the 3 amigos Crean did not exactly stock the shelves.  lazar and Trevor are the only two current concensus top 100 plaers on the roster sans the 3 amigos.  we struggle in year two and the wolves and vultures will circle and recruits could cast a skepticla eye, Buzz needs to win big in year two and he knows it getting real with a couple of guys that will contribute nothing in 09-10 is his and the programs best hope.

Not sure what that entire had post had anything to do with a last recruit for 2009.