First Female Rangers

[keefe]

The first two women recently finished Ranger training and earned their tabs. This is a damned tough course. I went through it as a TACP and it damn near broke me. These women are the best of the best. I salute them.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/21/433482186/first-female-soldiers-graduate-from-army-ranger-school


http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/08/21/first-ever-women-graduate-from-army-rang?videoId=365362128&videoChannel=1&channelName=Top+News

[keefe]

I got an email this week about the first female Rangers then read these reports tonight. It made me think back to when I first went into this man's Air Force. Fighter pilots was an all-male club and the first women were just being accepted into flight training.

Now, there are plenty of women flying combat as we speak - in F 15s, 16s, 18s, A 10s.... and a female Warthog Driver is in Congress. The last frontier was Spec Ops and these two women earning their tabs is significant - Nobody can ever say no again.

This is a damned great country when you get right down to it. It doesn't matter race, color, or creed if you can earn it. But you must earn it. For women, they needed to be given the opportunity. These women proved worthy of that opportunity. Make no mistake - they did something very significant. 

[JustinLewisFanClubPres]

I have a friend who is a Ranger and provided me with some insight into what the training and vetting process is like. It's very hard to think that you wouldn't want somebody who made it through that in combat with you regardless of sex, race, etc. Based on the little that I know, it is truly a testament to the human mind/body's ability to adapt to new situations on the fly.

[4everwarriors]

Yeah,but do these broads put out, hey?

[Jay Bee]

Yeah,but do these broads put out, hey?

Duh, how else would they pass the Ranger training?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Congrats to the ladies.  As long as the standards are maintained and we aren't doing lowest common denominator stuff like the fire departments were doing, I'm all for it.

[keefe]

Congrats to the ladies.  As long as the standards are maintained and we aren't doing lowest common denominator stuff like the fire departments were doing, I'm all for it.

The CG came out publicly and confirmed that there is just one standard because of internet idiots making up lies.

USAF SOW TACPs go through the Ranger course because we are embedded with the Rangers for our mission. Obviously, we catch a lot of crap from our Army brethren throughout the course but I can assure you there is only one standard. There were many times I asked myself, "what the hell was I thinking..." but you stay the course because you represent the Air Force.

I am sure these two women knew it was more than just themselves. Motivation is powerful. And trust me - that course is a ball buster.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Good for them.  America should be honored and proud.  Those women and men that get through this truly accomplish something amazing. 

[mu03eng]

SECNAV is going to allow women into BUDs and if they pass they will become SEALs.  It does give you a moments pause that something like this is news in 2015.

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/navy/2015/05/27/navy-secretary-ray-mabus-women-female-seal-navy-combat-exclusion/27653965/

[keefe]

SECNAV is going to allow women into BUDs and if they pass they will become SEALs.  It does give you a moments pause that something like this is news in 2015.

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/navy/2015/05/27/navy-secretary-ray-mabus-women-female-seal-navy-combat-exclusion/27653965/

AFSOC is still all-male but the DoD Directive will change that. My position is pretty simple: if you pass the Q Course and earn your Ranger Tab then you go out with the teams. And for the SEAL community if a woman passes BUDS and earns her Budweiser then she is a SEAL and should go operational.

The only thing I think women might struggle with is the loads we carry on our backs. Factor in the humping up mountains and that could be an issue. People also need to know that out in the field there is zero privacy and people will know how many pimples you have on each ass cheek. But if you go through the Ranger course or BUDS you will have gotten over that trauma by the time you get operational.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This seems easy.  Assuming the standards are the SAME (we're not playing games like fire departments have), then I don't care if you are a unicorn...you pass...you pass.  You belong in the field \ theater like anyone else.

Just don't compromise the standards.  This shouldn't be hard.

[keefe]

This seems easy.  Assuming the standards are the SAME (we're not playing games like fire departments have), then I don't care if you are a unicorn...you pass...you pass.  You belong in the field \ theater like anyone else.

Just don't compromise the standards.  This shouldn't be hard.

The CG came out and publicly stated there is one standard. That should put that rumor to bed...unless the General is lying, of course.

[mu03eng]

This seems easy.  Assuming the standards are the SAME (we're not playing games like fire departments have), then I don't care if you are a unicorn...you pass...you pass.  You belong in the field \ theater like anyone else.

Just don't compromise the standards.  This shouldn't be hard.

There will be one standard and if you pass you pass. 

It'll be interesting to see how some of the SERE stuff changes as a part of where a lot of these folks need to operate as the population can be especially brutal to women.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Kris Griest is from the town I live in.  It's been a big local story the last several days.  My daughter starts high school next week where she attended.  Already the welcome back e-mails and preparation e-mails start by congratulating her.  Her brother is in the military also. 

A great story of perseverance.

[ChicosBailBonds]

There will be one standard and if you pass you pass. 

It'll be interesting to see how some of the SERE stuff changes as a part of where a lot of these folks need to operate as the population can be especially brutal to women.

Agree.....which begs the question why municipal fire departments lowered the standards.

[keefe]

There will be one standard and if you pass you pass. 

It'll be interesting to see how some of the SERE stuff changes as a part of where a lot of these folks need to operate as the population can be especially brutal to women.

I spoke with one of the guys at Hurlburt and he confirmed that there is just one 'Gold Standard' at Benning. He said the gouge is that women do much better with the lack of sleep and managing the multi-tasking mind screw games. Their critical failure is in upper body strength requirements.

The Spec Ops Wing is already gearing up for women in all combat AFSCs. Women will be TACPs, Special Tactics, and PJs beginning next year. I am told that the first will be ALOs who will go through the TACP syllabus. 

Women started going through SAR/SERE once they opened up combat seats to them. I did both Camp Rambo in the winter and Warner Springs in the summer but this was when the RTL was still all male.   

After you are 'captured' and arrive at the POW compound they take away your flight suit. There isn't a changing room. As part of the torture and mind screw there seems to be a lot of time spent running around naked. I am guessing they are making some concessions to gender in the RTL for that but then again perhaps not.

The instructor cadre are really good at what they do. I managed by keep reminding myself that it was a training exercise and there was a light at the end of the tunnel - which is one of the lessons we were taught. But when you throw in a week without food and sleep before you even get to the camp and then throw in the programmed sleep deprivation fun and water boarding games inside the barbed wire and your mind turns into a bowl of mush.

[mu03eng]

I spoke with one of the guys at Hurlburt and he confirmed that there is just one 'Gold Standard' at Benning. He said the gouge is that women do much better with the lack of sleep and managing the multi-tasking mind screw games. Their critical failure is in upper body strength requirements.

The Spec Ops Wing is already gearing up for women in all combat AFSCs. Women will be TACPs, Special Tactics, and PJs beginning next year. I am told that the first will be ALOs who will go through the TACP syllabus. 

Women started going through SAR/SERE once they opened up combat seats to them. I did both Camp Rambo in the winter and Warner Springs in the summer but this was when the RTL was still all male.   

After you are 'captured' and arrive at the POW compound they take away your flight suit. There isn't a changing room. As part of the torture and mind screw there seems to be a lot of time spent running around naked. I am guessing they are making some concessions to gender in the RTL for that but then again perhaps not.

The instructor cadre are really good at what they do. I managed by keep reminding myself that it was a training exercise and there was a light at the end of the tunnel - which is one of the lessons we were taught. But when you throw in a week without food and sleep before you even get to the camp and then throw in the programmed sleep deprivation fun and water boarding games inside the barbed wire and your mind turns into a bowl of mush.

I would hope they wouldn't change for the gender.  I get it from a civilian standpoint what it looks like but that shizzle happens in the world and all need to be ready for it. The men need to be just as prepared for a woman being tortured/advanced interigation in front of them as much as women need to be prepared to accept torture/interrogation.

You get a mixed CV-22 crew that goes down during NOE and captured there will be no exceptions granted.

I know I'm preaching to the choir but I think the general public needs to understand why all of this goes on.  This isn't sadism or chauvinism, this is important for the service of the mission and keeping the faith with your shipmates

[keefe]

keeping the faith with your shipmates

And with your fellow airmen!

Listening to your podcast as we speak. Not much love for Thomas?

[mu03eng]

And with your fellow airmen!

Listening to your podcast as we speak. Not much love for Thomas?

Overall we both thought he was great but the constant nickname thing wasn't his best worked....cheapened the overall effort

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Agree.....which begs the question why municipal fire departments lowered the standards.

Jesus...keep repeating yourself. Fire department physical exams are a joke. How are you comparing the two?

[GGGG]

Jesus...keep repeating yourself. Fire department physical exams are a joke. How are you comparing the two?

Because he wants to make a political point...like always.

[tower912]

In what world did fire departments lower their entrance standards?    Must be a California thing.   On my department, everyone has to pass the same agility test in the same time frame.    It is basically pass/fail, so the great athletes completing it in 6:30 count the same as someone who finishes in 9:59.   
  My department dinked around with different tests, in 1988 having  white male, non-white male, and female lists, in 1990 having a male (any color) and female list.   Those got tossed by 1991.    Since 1991, there has been one list.   
   Roughly 1200 people take the test every time.    To get to the agility test, you have to finish basically in the top 60.     If you do the agility test in under 10:00, you move onto the interviews and background checks.   If you are in the top 15, you go through a 16 week class.   Then you are put on the streets, getting monthly progress reports.   The city can fire you for any reason during your first year.   

PRN, I know better. 

[Skitch]

  My department dinked around with different tests, in 1988 having  white male, non-white male, and female lists, in 1990 having a male (any color) and female list.   Those got tossed by 1991.    Since 1991, there has been one list.     

Not to derail this thread but I'm curious what was the reasoning behind separating the males into white/non-white categories?  That seems bizarre considering how recent you're talking about.

[tower912]

25 years ago, the city attempted to increase minority representation on the fire department.   While it is still a worthy goal, they have backed away from segregating the eligibility lists.   I think the city realized that it was an untenable position.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

In what world did fire departments lower their entrance standards?    Must be a California thing.   On my department, everyone has to pass the same agility test in the same time frame.    It is basically pass/fail, so the great athletes completing it in 6:30 count the same as someone who finishes in 9:59.   
  My department dinked around with different tests, in 1988 having  white male, non-white male, and female lists, in 1990 having a male (any color) and female list.   Those got tossed by 1991.    Since 1991, there has been one list.   
   Roughly 1200 people take the test every time.    To get to the agility test, you have to finish basically in the top 60.     If you do the agility test in under 10:00, you move onto the interviews and background checks.   If you are in the top 15, you go through a 16 week class.   Then you are put on the streets, getting monthly progress reports.   The city can fire you for any reason during your first year.   

PRN, I know better.

Not sure what that last comment means, but I know that a junior high kid could pass the Physical test the Chicago FD puts you though.