Washington rids itself of sexist language

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let me see if I can make it a bit easier.  Riley Cooper is being vilified for hate, racial speech.  As he should.  Charlie Rangel..........

Hate speech is hate speech.  Racism is racism. Sure, there are "more hateful" words than others, but if race is truly going to conquered in this country, then the vary people that scream at the top of their lungs should be equally loud when all people do it and not give them a pass and let certain people get away with it. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Then don't live in those locales.

We aren't victims of government. We have the freedom to chose where we live and where we pay taxes. If we don't like our community, or who the community is electing, we have the power to move.

This isn't that complicated. If Amarillo is more your style, move to Amarillo.

It would be nice if that's how it worked.  Let me give you an example.  The city I live in is part of Orange County.  We have our crap together.  Budget surplus, spent money wisely, etc.  The state, on the other hand, in typical total cluster mode.  So what does the state do?  They tell all the locales with redevolpment agencies that we're (the state) is going to be taking money from your budgets because we aren't capable of handling our own.  So regardless of where you live, they just came and smacked cities up and down the state.  Awesome.  You can't escape it sometimes, even if you "don't live in those locales".

[ChicosBailBonds]

But yet - based on your politics - I would guess that you support the Citizens United ruling which allows these unqualified buffoons to be able to give out more of those goodies and allows these deviants and criminals to get elected.

You'll have to show me where the Citizens United ruling somehow helped people like Jesse Jackson Jr., Marion Berry, William Jefferson, etc, to get elected. 

If you are asking if I believe in the first amendment, yes my politics does support the 1st amendment.   

[forgetful]

Let me see if I can make it a bit easier.  Riley Cooper is being vilified for hate, racial speech.  As he should.  Charlie Rangel..........

Hate speech is hate speech.  Racism is racism. Sure, there are "more hateful" words than others, but if race is truly going to conquered in this country, then the vary people that scream at the top of their lungs should be equally loud when all people do it and not give them a pass and let certain people get away with it. 

I fully agree with you in that hate speech is hate speech.  I had a coworker (hispanic) who insisted on referring to her white friends and coworkers as gringos.  The number of times I heard us referred to as just a bunch of stupid gringos was unfathomable.  My friend was greatly upset by this, and informed her that it is not polite and he viewed it as a derogatory term.  She went off on him for suggesting that a term applied to whites could ever be derogatory.  Things should be applied equally, with that said...

The one thing that I would caution against is getting up in arms over it.  Frankly, I've never understood anger on either side when it came to words.  There are a lot of them, I don't care what the word is, if someone tells me it upsets them, I'll go out of the way to not use that word.  I had a friend who didn't like the word 'moist' for some reason, so I avoided using it around them.

As Guns has commented, quite eloquently, there are a lot of things worth our attention, words are not.  Lets focus on the big issues.  I'll eagerly concede minor issues to more quickly tackle those that are most important.

You work in an industry where negotiations are important.  Don't you routinely concede elements of a negotiation to build equity for the key issues you need?  

[brandx]

It would be nice if that's how it worked.  Let me give you an example.  The city I live in is part of Orange County.  We have our crap together.  Budget surplus, spent money wisely, etc.  The state, on the other hand, in typical total cluster mode.  So what does the state do?  They tell all the locales with redevolpment agencies that we're (the state) is going to be taking money from your budgets because we aren't capable of handling our own.  So regardless of where you live, they just came and smacked cities up and down the state.  Awesome.  You can't escape it sometimes, even if you "don't live in those locales".

Bad example, I think. Orange County is quite affluent - Median home price is close to $500,000. Of course there is going to be a surplus.

And before arguing that your taxes shouldn't support other counties in the state, I could opine that my taxes shouldn't be used to support Red states down south. But life isn't fair. I don't know if they would survive down there without all the $$$ that they receive from liberal NE states.

Mississippi and West Virginia (Red states) are at the head of the class — each take nearly $3 from Washington for each dollar they pay in taxes. At the opposite end of the spectrum, Delaware and Minnesota (Blue states) both get about 50 cents for each $1 they pay in federal taxes.

[GGGG]

You can hardly equate these with someone wanting to ban the term  "Brown Bag Lunch"  A bit overreaching

Ugh...

I wish people could read.

They are not "banning" anything.  The City of Seattle is requiring that it's workers not use certain terms in "official documents and discussions."  You guys make it sound like they are going to arrest people for using that word.

While I agree that this is extreme, lots of businesses have similar policies.  For instance we are not supposed to refer to our "residence halls" as "dorms."

This is hardly some sort of restriction of freedom that people are painting it out to be.

[GGGG]

1. erosion of rights little by little is to be feared and fought whether it is linear or exponential.

BTW, no one's right are being eroded here.  If my employer requires that I refrain from using certain words in official communication, they have the authority to do so.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You can hardly equate these with someone wanting to ban the term  "Brown Bag Lunch"  A bit overreaching

That's exactly my point.

It's a dumb rule by some weird PC people, and a huge overreaction by some people who think this is their freedom being infringed upon.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It would be nice if that's how it worked.  Let me give you an example.  The city I live in is part of Orange County.  We have our crap together.  Budget surplus, spent money wisely, etc.  The state, on the other hand, in typical total cluster mode.  So what does the state do?  They tell all the locales with redevolpment agencies that we're (the state) is going to be taking money from your budgets because we aren't capable of handling our own.  So regardless of where you live, they just came and smacked cities up and down the state.  Awesome.  You can't escape it sometimes, even if you "don't live in those locales".

Then don't live in California.

Live in Montana.

We aren't victims. We can vote, we can lobby, and we can chose where we live/pay taxes.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Let me see if I can make it a bit easier.  Riley Cooper is being vilified for hate, racial speech.  As he should.  Charlie Rangel..........

Hate speech is hate speech.  Racism is racism. Sure, there are "more hateful" words than others, but if race is truly going to conquered in this country, then the vary people that scream at the top of their lungs should be equally loud when all people do it and not give them a pass and let certain people get away with it. 

Again, you are technically correct, but you aren't seeing the nuance?

We have a group(s) that were persecuted for a LONG time (still are in some places). "Separate but equal" wasn't that long ago. I don't think it's too much to ask white people to lay off the racial slurs for another 100 years. In 2100, if you want to use the n-word... go for it.

[ATWizJr]

Again, you are technically correct, but you aren't seeing the nuance?

We have a group(s) that were persecuted for a LONG time (still are in some places). "Separate but equal" wasn't that long ago. I don't think it's too much to ask white people to lay off the racial slurs for another 100 years. In 2100, if you want to use the n-word... go for it.

Almost 60 years ago, wasn't it?  The cloak of victimhood is holding people back.  If you want equality, then you gotta' expect that if you use a slur you may get one in return.  What's sauce for the goose....etc.

[ATWizJr]

Then don't live in California.

Live in Montana.

We aren't victims. We can vote, we can lobby, and we can chose where we live/pay taxes.

 

A vast oversimplification. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

 

A vast oversimplification. 

Not really.

Listen, I live in the midwest because I have family ties and my career is here. So, I'm sort of "stuck with it".

BUT, in reality, there is no restriction on where I live. If I don't like how society is developing, I'm welcome to move. Nobody can stop me from doing that.

Ultimately, I'm in control of my own destiny, and I'm not a victim. I can participate (voting, campaigning, lobbying, etc.) and live with the outcomes, or I can withdraw and live near the arctic circle in Alaska or Montana, or Wyoming, or even Texas. Whatever.

We are not victims. We have the freedom of choice.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Almost 60 years ago, wasn't it?  The cloak of victimhood is holding people back.  If you want equality, then you gotta' expect that if you use a slur you may get one in return.  What's sauce for the goose....etc.

Yes, ONLY 60 years (at least that is how I view it).

Anyways, we'll just agree to disagree on this one. I don't think "racial slur equality" is important... at all.

[Lennys Tap]

BTW, no one's right are being eroded here.  If my employer requires that I refrain from using certain words in official communication, they have the authority to do so.

But when people who work for me (as a citizen and taxpayer) are wasting their time and my money on something so stupid it's my right to call them out on it. If you own a company and one of your employees wants to sleep in his truck on your dime that's none of my business. When it's a city worker that's a different story.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

But when people who work for me (as a citizen and taxpayer) are wasting their time and my money on something so stupid it's my right to call them out on it. If you own a company and one of your employees wants to sleep in his truck on your dime that's none of my business. When it's a city worker that's a different story.

Exactly correct.

Waste of time and resources? Yep.

Infringing upon my God given freedoms as an American Citizen? Nope.

[ATWizJr]

Yes, ONLY 60 years (at least that is how I view it).

Anyways, we'll just agree to disagree on this one. I don't think "racial slur equality" is important... at all.

yes, we will.  if you want respect you have to give it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The one thing that I would caution against is getting up in arms over it.  Frankly, I've never understood anger on either side when it came to words.  There are a lot of them, I don't care what the word is, if someone tells me it upsets them, I'll go out of the way to not use that word.  I had a friend who didn't like the word 'moist' for some reason, so I avoided using it around them.

I think the reality is that certain individuals use the hate speech to try and harm people, their careers, etc.  Whether it is a Food Network host that said something decade plus ago, a football player, or whatever.  People go out of their way to try and put a scarlet letter on them and destroy them.  Literally destroy them. These very same people, apparently, have a free get out of jail card and can say something without harm.  It's ridiculous.  Here we have a 2nd rate football player that is vilified for saying something while drunk and someone captures it on a cell phone yet we have a sitting United States Congressional House Representative that gets nothing despite being sober, saying it to a media member in front of the world.  Meanwhile this football player isn't going to impact you or me at all, but this Representative votes on legislation that impacts all of us every day.  Something very wrong about that. 

Quite frankly, I do think it is worth getting up in arms about it, especially when some of these people are out literally trying to destroy the lives of others. 

[GGGG]

But when people who work for me (as a citizen and taxpayer) are wasting their time and my money on something so stupid it's my right to call them out on it. If you own a company and one of your employees wants to sleep in his truck on your dime that's none of my business. When it's a city worker that's a different story.

I agree with that.  But I don't think anyone here lives in Seattle...and I agree it's completely stupid.

But it isn't infringing on anyone's rights.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Then don't live in California.

Live in Montana.

We aren't victims. We can vote, we can lobby, and we can chose where we live/pay taxes.

Idaho is next for us, though Montana was in high consideration. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Again, you are technically correct, but you aren't seeing the nuance?

We have a group(s) that were persecuted for a LONG time (still are in some places). "Separate but equal" wasn't that long ago. I don't think it's too much to ask white people to lay off the racial slurs for another 100 years. In 2100, if you want to use the n-word... go for it.

Oh I see the nuance just fine....I would like white people to lay off the racial slurs period....and guess what, I'd like everyone else too, as well. That's the other half of the problem.  How can we be a color blind society if we still have people that push those divisions?  When people are out there pushing this stuff, saying things that others would lose their jobs over.  I'm sure that's healthy for racial relations in this country.   

We had our HR managerial reviews the other day.  I had to rate each of my employees.  About 70% of my staff is female and 80% of my entire team is deemed  a "minority".  Mostly Asian-American, in this particular case.  I had to think about the questions because I don't see any of these people as Asian or Hispanic or Caucasian.  I could not care less.  On the forms each employee was identified as such...male, non minority.  Male, minority.  Female, non-minority.  Female, minority.  My HR guy, who happens to be an African American chap, good dude...I asked him why can't we just get down to the essentials here.  Can they do the job or can't they?  Are they good, are they promotable, are they tomorrow's leaders, have they hit a ceiling, etc?  Whether they are a minority or not, whether what gender they are or what sexual orientation should not matter one hill of beans.  Not one iota. 

[forgetful]

I think the reality is that certain individuals use the hate speech to try and harm people, their careers, etc.  Whether it is a Food Network host that said something decade plus ago, a football player, or whatever.  People go out of their way to try and put a scarlet letter on them and destroy them.  Literally destroy them. These very same people, apparently, have a free get out of jail card and can say something without harm.  It's ridiculous.  Here we have a 2nd rate football player that is vilified for saying something while drunk and someone captures it on a cell phone yet we have a sitting United States Congressional House Representative that gets nothing despite being sober, saying it to a media member in front of the world.  Meanwhile this football player isn't going to impact you or me at all, but this Representative votes on legislation that impacts all of us every day.  Something very wrong about that. 

Quite frankly, I do think it is worth getting up in arms about it, especially when some of these people are out literally trying to destroy the lives of others. 

Chicos, If even half of the things I have heard about Paula Deen are true than she is rightfully getting what she deserved.  That said, I don't like Rangel and frankly think he is scum.  Similarly I despise Congressman Lamborn, who referred to the president as a 'tar baby'.  I don't get upset about it though, because I have 0 respect for them and have realized that we elect people by name, not ability for a long time.

It is well documented that people will vote for a name they recognize and don't trust over an unknown the majority of the time.  Just because they are in a position of power does not mean you have to respect them.

Frankly, I'm more concerned with Rangel's 13 ethics charges than his use of the word cracker.  Similarly with what is going on in Seattle, far more concerned with big issues than weather they can use the term "brown bag" for their next meeting.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fair enough....and for the record I'm not defending Ms Deen.  I just find it absurd that she is ousted while others are glorified, revered, etc.  It's like every time I see Alec Baldwin I think to myself if that was a conservative actor who said those things about his daughter, his ex-wife, his anti-gay nonsense, would he ever work again in Hollywood?  The double standards are breath taking.

[forgetful]

Fair enough....and for the record I'm not defending Ms Deen.  I just find it absurd that she is ousted while others are glorified, revered, etc.  It's like every time I see Alec Baldwin I think to myself if that was a conservative actor who said those things about his daughter, his ex-wife, his anti-gay nonsense, would he ever work again in Hollywood?  The double standards are breath taking.

I dislike Baldwin for the same reason...actually not a fan of his entire family.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Oh I see the nuance just fine....I would like white people to lay off the racial slurs period....and guess what, I'd like everyone else too, as well. That's the other half of the problem.  How can we be a color blind society if we still have people that push those divisions?  When people are out there pushing this stuff, saying things that others would lose their jobs over.  I'm sure that's healthy for racial relations in this country.   

We had our HR managerial reviews the other day.  I had to rate each of my employees.  About 70% of my staff is female and 80% of my entire team is deemed  a "minority".  Mostly Asian-American, in this particular case.  I had to think about the questions because I don't see any of these people as Asian or Hispanic or Caucasian.  I could not care less.  On the forms each employee was identified as such...male, non minority.  Male, minority.  Female, non-minority.  Female, minority.  My HR guy, who happens to be an African American chap, good dude...I asked him why can't we just get down to the essentials here.  Can they do the job or can't they?  Are they good, are they promotable, are they tomorrow's leaders, have they hit a ceiling, etc?  Whether they are a minority or not, whether what gender they are or what sexual orientation should not matter one hill of beans.  Not one iota. 

#1 "Cracker" and "Honky" etc. aren't 1/2 of the problem. It's part of the problem, but let's not overstate it. I know this is nit picking, but I think it needs to be said. There is a long history tied to the n-word (we all know what it is), so it's ALWAYS going to carry more weight. It just does.

#2 In a perfect world, you are 100% correct. The good news is that in another couple of generations, we probably won't need all of the rules and regulations for protected class.

However, we aren't in a perfect world right now. I don't necessarily agree with every piece of affirmative action legislation, but I understand why it exists. Also, as a white male, from and middle class family, I don't mash my teeth or shake my fist at this kind of stuff very often (if at all). Honestly, my energy is just spent elsewhere. Maybe I'm just too apathetic... and maybe that is America's real problem.