MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: muwarrior69 on June 15, 2019, 09:12:00 AM
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I just opened MU's gift participation brochure. I was surprised that only 13% of alumni donate. I was wondering why that is. For me, I do not donate anymore as I feel that MU has lost its Catholic identity. Students are no longer required to take Catholic theology courses. I had to take six. The theology department has few Jesuit Catholic professors. About a third of my professors at MU were Jesuits: 2 in biology, 2 in chemistry, 6 in theology, 3 in philosophy and 2 in french.
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All of your reasons for not donating are reasons I chose to go to Marquette for grad school. ;D
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I donate sporadically. It all comes down to timing when I am asked. What else is on the horizon financially? It has nothing to do with philosophy, theology, basketball success.
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While we each have a choice to make, the 'Catholic' education you describe no longer exists at any Jesuit university in North America. And the total number of Jesuit professors you described would now constitute a meaningful plurality of the entire Midwest Jesuit Province. Do understand that there are even those that suggest that MU isn't secular enough. Most stakeholders disagree with that approach. I would best describe MU as Catholic while openly welcoming of other faiths.
As to your participation percentage figures, our rate is embarrassingly low compared to our competitor institutions. Many reasons for that I suppose.
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I just opened MU's gift participation brochure. I was surprised that only 13% of alumni donate. I was wondering why that is. For me, I do not donate anymore as I feel that MU has lost its Catholic identity. Students are no longer required to take Catholic theology courses. I had to take six. The theology department has few Jesuit Catholic professors. About a third of my professors at MU were Jesuits: 2 in biology, 2 in chemistry, 6 in theology, 3 in philosophy and 2 in french.
I was curious .. from this page, it does look like a student could opt not to talk a THEO class.
https://www.marquette.edu/core-curriculum/overview.php
Took some googling, but I found a survey from 2015 with demographics. 47% of MU students said they were Catholic. 27% answered some other Christian religion.
A decent number of silly answers like Wiccan and Rastafarian.
The %ages don't seem to add up right though .. looks like people could pick more than one answer. Looks like a good 8-15% are some flavor of unaffiliated/atheist.
https://www.marquette.edu/provost/documents/Marquette%20University%20Final%20Report.pdf
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My wife and I are among the 13%. We've donated something almost every year since I was graduated, notwithstanding the concern I raised on Tab 6 of the Enrollment thread.
I was given a gift to go there and paid it forward. We've given to other causes and put our two children through college on our own.
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I just had to unsubscribe from their email donation requests. How many times are they going to offer me a free beach towel for making a gift?
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The wife and I both donated chump change in exchange for the McCormick koozie. So that's 2 new donors. Good promotion with the koozies.
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For those that complain about MU not being ranked high enough, and also don't donate, remember you are hurting MU's ranking. A component of the rankings are the percent of alumni that donate.
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I think a component of the non-donors thinking is .. going to college is (can be) a transaction. "Back in our day" it was a $40,000 transaction for 4 years. Now it's 3-4x that number. I think there's a tremendous feeling of "we've paid enough already."
It'd be like buying a house, still paying for the mortgage and then being asked to tip the previous owners every year too. -- Oh, and the previous owners have this thing called an 'endowment' of nearly a billion dollars. Oh, and if you ever have kid the tuition for them will be so high it's insanity. (Mixed metaphor alert.)
.. Of course *I* wouldn't say that. Bad, evil, selfish people would say that. 8-)
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We do are most years...donate that is. My oldest at MU had to take two Theo classes. I remember having to take 3 about 25 years ago.
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We do are most years...donate that is. My oldest at MU had to take two Theo classes. I remember having to take 3 about 25 years ago.
I had to take 3 Theology and 4 Philosophy in the 90’s. Theo 001 was required, then 2 elective theology courses. PHIL 050 and PHIL 104 (ethics) required, then 2 PHIL electives. Not a Catholic, didn’t have to learn specifically about Catholicism. My Wife I and include MU among our annual contributions to the multiple organizations to which we contribute, though we did stop during the last few Buzz years.
Recent grads aren’t going to be able to contribute or be interested in doing so. They are coming out with tremendous debt, why would they give when debt from MU has to be paid monthly. Colleges nationally are trying to figure out how to get recent grads to donate, it’s not going well.
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09-14 had to do two PHIL and two THEO.
I think when you say something like "it's not catholic enough" you're setting yourself up to be upset and really saying 'it's not aligned with what I believe in perfectly'. Let's say the university followed the popes decrees verbatim. Then there'd still be a large number of donors that's say it's not catholic enough and be pissed off.
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Yeah we know why Marquette isn't as "Catholic" as it used to be, but muwarrior69 still has the ability to direct his donations where he wants. I don't donate to Marquette because I just find other charities to be more important. And that's just my opinion. I'm sure he feels the same.
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I used to donate annually. I always sent a letter with my check saying that the money must either go to Kevin O'Neill's salary or to the college of engineering. Then when KO was gone, I said that the money had to go to the college of engineering or towards finding a better coach than Mike Deane. With Crean, I again said that the money could go to his salary or to the college of engineering. Since Crean departed, I have not donated. There was something dysfunctional about the previous administration that left a bad feeling. I'm re-considering lately.
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Beyond money, I'll contend there are other ways to donate. Engaging students, presenting at classes, mentoring, hiring interns, hiring recent grads, etc. All have been meaningful and fun.
ND sucks.
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Beyond money, I'll contend there are other ways to donate. Engaging students, presenting at classes, mentoring, hiring interns, hiring recent grads, etc. All have been meaningful and fun.
ND sucks.
Well, according to the brochure Notre Dame is at the top of Alumni donations at 40%.
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I had to take 3 Theology and 4 Philosophy in the 90’s. Theo 001 was required, then 2 elective theology courses. PHIL 050 and PHIL 104 (ethics) required, then 2 PHIL electives. Not a Catholic, didn’t have to learn specifically about Catholicism. My Wife I and include MU among our annual contributions to the multiple organizations to which we contribute, though we did stop during the last few Buzz years.
Recent grads aren’t going to be able to contribute or be interested in doing so. They are coming out with tremendous debt, why would they give when debt from MU has to be paid monthly. Colleges nationally are trying to figure out how to get recent grads to donate, it’s not going well.
I wonder what the average debt is for recent MU grads.
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Yeah we know why Marquette isn't as "Catholic" as it used to be, but muwarrior69 still has the ability to direct his donations where he wants. I don't donate to Marquette because I just find other charities to be more important. And that's just my opinion. I'm sure he feels the same.
I just think it is disingenuous of MU to claim that students that attend will get a good Catholic education there, especially when a good percentage of the theology department are not even Catholic. Do they even offer a course on the sacraments?
If my grand daughter decides to go to a Catholic university we will probably look at Franciscan University in Ohio or Catholic University in DC.
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I just think it is disingenuous of MU to claim that students that attend will get a good Catholic education there, especially when a good percentage of the theology department are not even Catholic. Do they even offer a course on the sacraments?
If my grand daughter decides to go to a Catholic university we will probably look at Franciscan University in Ohio or Catholic University in DC.
Marquette hasn’t taught Catholic sacraments in awhile. If ever. I attended in the mid 80s and there wasn’t any sort of course work on specific Catholic theology.
And one thing you need to realize is that there aren’t enough qualified Jesuits to fill out the Theology departments at all Jesuit institutions.
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Well, according to the brochure Notre Dame is at the top of Alumni donations at 40%.
They still suck.
Get with the program.
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I just think it is disingenuous of MU to claim that students that attend will get a good Catholic education there, especially when a good percentage of the theology department are not even Catholic. Do they even offer a course on the sacraments?
If my grand daughter decides to go to a Catholic university we will probably look at Franciscan University in Ohio or Catholic University in DC.
You have that much influence in your grand daughter's college decision? And care so much about the influence of the church at the institution that you'd overlook other considerably more important aspects of a college education? :o
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I just think it is disingenuous of MU to claim that students that attend will get a good Catholic education there, especially when a good percentage of the theology department are not even Catholic. Do they even offer a course on the sacraments?
If my grand daughter decides to go to a Catholic university we will probably look at Franciscan University in Ohio or Catholic University in DC.
You expect to have that much of a say in where your granddaughter goes to school ? Even if you are helping out financially, I am not sure it's fair for you to micromanage her choice.
What is good about Marquette is that it is as Catholic as you want it to be. Super Catholic? There are plenty of courses on Catholicism you can take as electives. You can also choose to be active in Campus Ministry and attend daily Mass. Not Christian? Take Intro to Theology and one elective, and never actively have to deal with religion again.
Keep in mind that most of the super-devout Catholic students will have already had 12 years of Catholic education by the time they hit Marquette. What would they be learning about Catholicism that would be new to them?
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You expect to have that much of a say in where your granddaughter goes to school ? Even if you are helping out financially, I am not sure it's fair for you to micromanage her choice.
What is good about Marquette is that it is as Catholic as you want it to be. Super Catholic? There are plenty of courses on Catholicism you can take as electives. You can also choose to be active in Campus Ministry and attend daily Mass. Not Christian? Take Intro to Theology and one elective, and never actively have to deal with religion again.
Keep in mind that most of the super-devout Catholic students will have already had 12 years of Catholic education by the time they hit Marquette. What would they be learning about Catholicism that would be new to them?
Sister Chick, I totally agree. In fact, I worry not about Marquette’s “Catholicism.”
I think part of the problem is defining “Catholic” in an era of intellectual curiousity and investigation.
The Truth is the Truth and it will stand up to investigation and discussion.
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Well, according to the brochure Notre Dame is at the top of Alumni donations at 40%.
How many of that 40% are actual alumni as opposed to “I went to Sacred Heart but was always a huge ND fan” types?
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I did my undergrad almost 14 years ago, and in my general cohort there is a common theme I hear often of "You expect me to donate when I've still got xxx amount of students loans to pay off? Call me when I've got them paid off." That was not only from my peers at Whitewater, but from friends who attended many different public and private institutions.
This was particularly poignant at that time because the economy was not great when we graduated and then got much worse when the recession hit a few years later. Our incomes did not grow like our predecessors' had.
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I did my undergrad almost 14 years ago, and in my general cohort there is a common theme I hear often of "You expect me to donate when I've still got xxx amount of students loans to pay off? Call me when I've got them paid off." That was not only from my peers at Whitewater, but from friends who attended many different public and private institutions.
This was particularly poignant at that time because the economy was not great when we graduated and then got much worse when the recession hit a few years later. Our incomes did not grow like our predecessors' had.
The percentage quoted are alums who donate any amount - even $1.
Unless they have zero discretionary income (and if you purchase alcohol, you have discretionary income) people who claim they can't afford to donate anything are full of crap. If you don't want to donate, just be a grownup and say so.
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I just think it is disingenuous of MU to claim that students that attend will get a good Catholic education there, especially when a good percentage of the theology department are not even Catholic. Do they even offer a course on the sacraments?
If my grand daughter decides to go to a Catholic university we will probably look at Franciscan University in Ohio or Catholic University in DC.
You expect to have that much of a say in where your granddaughter goes to school ? Even if you are helping out financially, I am not sure it's fair for you to micromanage her choice.
What is good about Marquette is that it is as Catholic as you want it to be. Super Catholic? There are plenty of courses on Catholicism you can take as electives. You can also choose to be active in Campus Ministry and attend daily Mass. Not Christian? Take Intro to Theology and one elective, and never actively have to deal with religion again.
Keep in mind that most of the super-devout Catholic students will have already had 12 years of Catholic education by the time they hit Marquette. What would they be learning about Catholicism that would be new to them?
These are both fine positions and they aren't mutually exclusive. Warrior is certainly correct that students looking for an immersive Catholic experience where Catholic doctrine directly touches each facet of the college experience should probably look elsewhere (or at least be prepared to have to self select into a very small minority of the student population at MU). I think his position speaks to the difficulty of pinning down "good Catholic education," but if in the eye of the beholder, that's a very Catholic-influenced experience every step of the way, there are probably better places for that than MU.
But I'm also on team chick here in that MU certainly has options available for the uber-Catholic folks (though again, those students will find themselves part of a pretty tight knit group that will have a pretty different experience than most of the student population). Generally speaking, I don't think MU is in the minority here, especially given its Jesuit roots. At the end of the day, and painting with a dangerously broad brush, folks wanting a conservative Catholic experience, where traditional Catholic teaching is interwoven throughout the undergraduate experience should probably look to non-Jesuit institutions - and I'd venture that's been true for hundreds of years.
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Unless they have zero discretionary income (and if you purchase alcohol, you have discretionary income) people who claim they can't afford to donate anything are full of crap. If you don't want to donate, just be a grownup and say so.
I agree with this. While I hadn't donated to Marquette for a number of years, I've never said I couldn't afford it. I've chosen not to donate for a number of years because our annual tuition dollars (both high school and college) are high and we also donate to our kids' current schools.
That said, I just donated to Marquette (and expect my sweet beach towel in six to eight weeks). Marquette means a lot to me, and there really is no reason I can't send a few bucks their way.
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I just think it is disingenuous of MU to claim that students that attend will get a good Catholic education there, especially when a good percentage of the theology department are not even Catholic. Do they even offer a course on the sacraments?
If my grand daughter decides to go to a Catholic university we will probably look at Franciscan University in Ohio or Catholic University in DC.
If my top priority in sending my kids to college was to further their Catholic education and formation, I would not send them to Marquette. If that is your priority, I think FUS would be a great option (and I have some strong ties to that school) and CU would also be a good option. I respect that priority, and understand that is is right for some people. That was not our top priority, and so far my kids have gone to a non-religious private, a Jesuit and a public university. I haven't gotten one to Marquette yet, but have one more chance. But, truth be told, I don't expect that Marquette will offer enough money to make it a viable option for our family.
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The percentage quoted are alums who donate any amount - even $1.
Unless they have zero discretionary income (and if you purchase alcohol, you have discretionary income) people who claim they can't afford to donate anything are full of crap. If you don't want to donate, just be a grownup and say so.
I think the argument is more philosophical rather than practical. Can they afford it? Yes, anyone can give a dollar. Do they feel it's presumptuous to ask for a donation when they themselves don't feel financially secure enough post graduation? That is the impression I get.
I know many of those people donate to other causes willingly, so again it definitely isn't that they believe they can't afford it.
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Question about donating. I’ve never donated, so how specific can you get with you donations?
Can I specifically request my donation be split between the Basketball teams and Volleyball team? Or can you only request it to go to the Athletic Department?
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Question about donating. I’ve never donated, so how specific can you get with you donations?
Can I specifically request my donation be split between the Basketball teams and Volleyball team? Or can you only request it to go to the Athletic Department?
Blue and gold fund is athletic department. Idk if you can control which teams specifically, I don't recall that being an option when I worked at phonathon. You can set it up to be recurring, like I think for a couple years till I got laid off I was doing $50 spread out over 12 months.
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Question about donating. I’ve never donated, so how specific can you get with you donations?
Can I specifically request my donation be split between the Basketball teams and Volleyball team? Or can you only request it to go to the Athletic Department?
You can certainly specify a particular sport or sports, but unless you are giving a significant amount (4 figures+), I am sure that the advancement department would appreciate it if you didn't. The paperwork involved in restricted gifts is an administrative nightmare, and they will burn off a lot of your donation in the effort involved in making sure they are compliant with your wishes. If you are truly interested in Marquette getting the most bang for your donation buck, it's best to keep it simple.
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You can certainly specify a particular sport or sports, but unless you are giving a significant amount (4 figures+), I am sure that the advancement department would appreciate it if you didn't. The paperwork involved in restricted gifts is an administrative nightmare, and they will burn off a lot of your donation in the effort involved in making sure they are compliant with your wishes. If you are truly interested in Marquette getting the most bang for your donation buck, it's best to keep it simple.
Each of the individual athletic teams has a gift account that receives gifts like this. So it really wouldn't be that hard to give it to a specific sport.
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Unless they have zero discretionary income (and if you purchase alcohol, you have discretionary income) people who claim they can't afford to donate anything are full of crap. If you don't want to donate, just be a grownup and say so.
This reminds me .. summer of Junior year, a friend of mine did an internship at an insurance company and asked me if they could practice their "interview" schtick on me. Sure, friend.
She asked a bunch of financial questions including "what is your disposable income level" and would report back when the computer spit out the recommendations.
Days later, she comes back and sits me down to discuss my "insurance options". At the end, she asked my 21-year-old self if I was going to buy life insurance from her. Wut? Ummmmm no. "But you said you had $100 disposable income each month. You can afford this!" >:(
Beer money > Life insurance for a 21 year old.
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This reminds me .. summer of Junior year, a friend of mine did an internship at an insurance company and asked me if they could practice their "interview" schtick on me. Sure, friend.
She asked a bunch of financial questions including "what is your disposable income level" and would report back when the computer spit out the recommendations.
Days later, she comes back and sits me down to discuss my "insurance options". At the end, she asked my 21-year-old self if I was going to buy life insurance from her. Wut? Ummmmm no. "But you said you had $100 disposable income each month. You can afford this!" >:(
Beer money > Life insurance for a 21 year old.
Those insurance companies are crazy intense about getting you to hit up your friends and family at first. I've had some of them interview me and try to pitch me at the same time. If it works for some people more power to them
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I donate sporadically. It all comes down to timing when I am asked. What else is on the horizon financially? It has nothing to do with philosophy, theology, basketball success.
This is me also.
Plus I felt I was "donating" by volunteering annually over the last 25 years to help the Admissions Office and plan Club activities. This is the main reason I'm a little upset my kid will not be attending MU in the fall.
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Beer money > Life insurance for a 21 year old.
I'm in my mid-50s, and I spend way more money on beer each month than I do on life insurance.
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The percentage quoted are alums who donate any amount - even $1.
Unless they have zero discretionary income (and if you purchase alcohol, you have discretionary income) people who claim they can't afford to donate anything are full of crap. If you don't want to donate, just be a grownup and say so.
Didn't see the brochure, but I'm kind of interested in seeing what the donor levels are for alumni who were the beneficiary of full or major scholarships (something where someone else is paying more towards tuition than the student).
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I donate once or twice a year, not a lot. I feel very tied to MU and my experiences there. Excited for a cousin who starts in the fall as a freshman.
I looked up info about Franciscan University. Let’s just say it wouldn’t be for me, weekly Mass -attender that I am.
Did MU ever even offer a course on the sacraments? I certainly don’t remember one, though I also wouldn’t have looked for one either, as my interests tend more to social justice.
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Question about donating. I’ve never donated, so how specific can you get with you donations?
Can I specifically request my donation be split between the Basketball teams and Volleyball team? Or can you only request it to go to the Athletic Department?
Chitown, like chick said, generally speaking. If you're giving $100, my hope is the Blue/Gold is close enough to your overall objectives.
But you could explore particular endowments that have a narrower focus. Each endowment agreement provides 'governing language' and was written in direct consultation with the benefactor. So if you got in touch with Advancements, they could likely point you to a volleyball only endowment, for example. Endowments like that exist across all areas of the university. If you'd like to help MUCN, PM me and we can talk.
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As a contributor and one whose Marquette experience was outstanding, I'm one of the first people to defend Marquette. Having invested in other people's future, I'll point blank say that I, like others who like me, give, "I am Marquette."
Here's the backside. Since I've been graduated, I've targeted my donations for scholarships (which wasn't easy when I was barraged by young Warriors who wanted me to redirect my donation to construction of the union, which I quickly rejected). The question never been answered by anyone in administration is why a Marquette education's cost has significantly exceeded inflation plus a percent or two every year since any of us were graduated.
The closest answer to that was a few years ago when Father Pilarz said, "our students demand more," alluding to better housing, a better rec center and amenity after amenity. I had trouble keeping from retching after that one and became quite cynical. But I kept giving (and still do) because Marquette is bigger than Father Pilarz.
The one thing that is frightening on this Board -- which I admit is not a representative sample -- is the anger over student debt. My read of the comments at large is the university has a serious problem convincing people heavily in debt that contributions are a good thing. This is a major hurdle that will have to be overcome and I understand why some of these folks are more than a little disillusioned about giving.
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The question never been answered by anyone in administration is why a Marquette education's cost has significantly exceeded inflation plus a percent or two every year since any of us were graduated.
The closest answer to that was a few years ago when Father Pilarz said, "our students demand more," alluding to better housing, a better rec center and amenity after amenity. I had trouble keeping from retching after that one and became quite cynical. But I kept giving (and still do) because Marquette is bigger than Father Pilarz.
You are probably aware of this, but it is not just Marquette this has seen costs escalate at 6-7% per year, but almost all universities...and maybe you can strike the "almost" part of that...which of course is the primary factor in the student debt issue.
But I'm curious what you didn't like about his answer, as to me this is very true. College tours, which pretty much didn't exist in my day, are now a key to how kids select their college. If MU wasn't keeping pace and looked like it did in the 70's and 80's they'd be begging for students.
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You are probably aware of this, but it is not just Marquette this has seen costs escalate at 6-7% per year, but almost all universities...and maybe you can strike the "almost" part of that...which of course is the primary factor in the student debt issue.
But I'm curious what you didn't like about his answer, as to me this is very true. College tours, which pretty much didn't exist in my day, are now a key to how kids select their college. If MU wasn't keeping pace and looked like it did in the 70's and 80's they'd be begging for students.
Certainly I know about the rising costs of college tuition. Let’s just say my wife and I put our two children through, so yes we clearly know.
That said, the glittering generality fallacy of “everybody else is doing it” is a hard sell here. That does not make it right. I did the college tours with both my children and our focus wasn’t on the best rec facilities (Iowa State or Iowa won) or the best dorms or lobster Thursdays.
We focused on what mattered, then. We looked at what they wanted to do with their lives, the education and support the college offered. We looked at them and asked, “who will do best by them.”
The facilities at the university they selected were adequate but not blow your doors off. Who cares as long as the university does its job and the kids do theirs.
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Certainly I know about the rising costs of college tuition. Let’s just say my wife and I put our two children through, so yes we clearly know.
That said, the glittering generality fallacy of “everybody else is doing it” is a hard sell here. That does not make it right. I did the college tours with both my children and our focus wasn’t on the best rec facilities (Iowa State or Iowa won) or the best dorms or lobster Thursdays.
We focused on what mattered, then. We looked at what they wanted to do with their lives, the education and support the college offered. We looked at them and asked, “who will do best by them.”
The facilities at the university they selected were adequate but not blow your doors off. Who cares as long as the university does its job and the kids do theirs.
So what school was this and when did they attend?
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some colleges have cut their tuition costs in an attempt to reverse declining enrollment. The highest profiled being Lasalle. I'm curious how it worked out for them:
https://www.mcall.com/news/education/mc-nws-colleges-cut-tuition-costs-20190122-story.html
https://www.phillymag.com/city/2016/09/28/la-salle-university-cuts-tuition/
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Let's see how much the actual tuition that students pay decreases. Sounds like they are simply reducing the list price.
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I did the college tours with both my children and our focus wasn’t on the best rec facilities (Iowa State or Iowa won)...
During our earlier college tours, my son was very focused on the best rec facilities. But he ended up choosing the school that might have had the worst facility of any we toured. I've often said that it's how I knew he was “in love" with his chosen school.
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During our earlier college tours, my son was very focused on the best rec facilities. But he ended up choosing the school that might have had the worst facility of any we toured. I've often said that it's how I knew "he was in love" with his chosen school.
So, Marquette, then?
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So, Marquette, then?
Believe it or not, it was worse. Much worse.
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So what school was this and when did they attend?
Southern Illinois University -- Carbondale. Both since 2014.
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The percentage quoted are alums who donate any amount - even $1.
Unless they have zero discretionary income (and if you purchase alcohol, you have discretionary income) people who claim they can't afford to donate anything are full of crap. If you don't want to donate, just be a grownup and say so.
$1 is pissin' in the wind when MU's got a billion dollar endowment, ai'na?
So is $100...
So is $1,000 (but that comes close to buying you into President's Society, which has to help with seating, yeah?)
You can see the impact of that $100 at my daughter's Montessori school a bit quicker than at MU...
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$1 is pissin' in the wind when MU's got a billion dollar endowment, ai'na?
So is $100...
So is $1,000 (but that comes close to buying you into President's Society, which has to help with seating, yeah?)
You can see the impact of that $100 at my daughter's Montessori school a bit quicker than at MU...
You couldn't be more uninformed.
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How? A smaller amount of money can be seen to have a greater, more immediate impact at institutions with a smaller budget.
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How? A smaller amount of money can be seen to have a greater, more immediate impact at institutions with a smaller budget.
Tangent alert: I always think about this when a celebrity goes on a game show and competes to win money for a designated charity. Whenever I hear them choose a charity with a multi-billion dollar budget I can't help thinking that if I were in that position I'd want to play for a smaller charity for which the money could have a much more profound impact. Many do play for smaller charities, but not as many as I'd expect.
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You couldn't be more uninformed.
Absolutely agree with you Glow.
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Southern Illinois University -- Carbondale. Both since 2014.
OK, but its hard to judge the cost of a public university when compared to a private one. How much of their operations, infrastructure, etc. is being underwritten by tax revenue versus tuition revenue.
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How? A smaller amount of money can be seen to have a greater, more immediate impact at institutions with a smaller budget.
I echo FBM here, because apparently I'm "uninformed" too. How?
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I echo FBM here, because apparently I'm "uninformed" too. How?
A couple of reasons. First, it demonstrates a level of commitment by an alumni base to the university. To its ideals, goals and objectives and to its future.
Second, at least it used to be, some charities and foundations that support universities based on the percentage of alumni who give. The greater the percentage of alumni who believe in what the university does, the more likely it becomes that XYZ Foundation would give millions.
Candidly, if your own people don't believe in you, why would anyone else. Small gifts, regardless of the size, are a sign of commitment by "your own people" who received the education and have applied their knowledge. It's an endorsement of what Marquette is about.
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A couple of reasons. First, it demonstrates a level of commitment by an alumni base to the university. To its ideals, goals and objectives and to its future.
But what if I feel the ideals, goals and objectives of other charities are more important?
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A couple of reasons. First, it demonstrates a level of commitment by an alumni base to the university. To its ideals, goals and objectives and to its future.
So this is where the "$1 donation" point actually kind of makes me uneasy. Its used tell other similarly situated alumni that "Hey, X% of your class is donating! You might think you don't have the money but you do - people with less money than you are donating!" Financially, those donations are a rounding error, but its valuable as a development strategy to encourage donations and keep the development office connected with alumni. That's all well and good, but somewhere in there it feels a bit disingenuous as a number to use with grads less than 10 years out and paying back $750/month in student loans on $40,000/year salaries. Again, I'm not saying its manipulative or bad per se, I just personally haven't completely settled out on how I feel about it.
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But what if I feel the ideals, goals and objectives of other charities are more important?
I get that Brother Fluffy. Support them both!
Nobody is asking you or Ms. Fluffy to tithe to Marquette, or any other charity for that matter (well, OK, your Parish priest might be!). But sending something to support something important -- even small amounts -- matters.
Ms. Dgies and I get requests all the time (trust me, if you have a land line, you're bombarded). If it matters, we find a little extra room in the budget for the cause. It's what we all are called to do. As my Dad once said when I was in college and pleaded no money, "Uh, did you go out for beer last night..." Uhh, "yes sir," I responded. "uhh, then you have something..."
Charity is not an "either or" proposition. It is finding ways to better our fellow men and women.
P.S. -- Yes, I know, PBR and my Dad may not have been on the same page LOL!
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I get that Brother Fluffy. Support them both!
Nobody is asking you or Ms. Fluffy to tithe to Marquette, or any other charity for that matter (well, OK, your Parish priest might be!). But sending something to support something important -- even small amounts -- matters.
Ms. Dgies and I get requests all the time (trust me, if you have a land line, you're bombarded). If it matters, we find a little extra room in the budget for the cause. It's what we all are called to do. As my Dad once said when I was in college and pleaded no money, "Uh, did you go out for beer last night..." Uhh, "yes sir," I responded. "uhh, then you have something..."
Charity is not an "either or" proposition. It is finding ways to better our fellow men and women.
P.S. -- Yes, I know, PBR and my Dad may not have been on the same page LOL!
My point is that $100 matters less to Marquette than it does a small, social service agency. I’ve supported a local family shelter and I can guarantee that $100 is more important to them from a budgetary perspective than it would be to Marquette.
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How? A smaller amount of money can be seen to have a greater, more immediate impact at institutions with a smaller budget.
You can still do that at larger organizations if you take advantage of special endowment funds. For example, the American Heart Association has a budget for research expenditures. If you send them $100 and tell them you want it to go to "research", technically your money will indeed go to research, but nothing stops them from taking $100 out of the already allocated research dollars and using it for something else. It ends up being a wash.
However, if you donate $100 to the AHA's Scoop Endowment for the Prevention of Buzzerbeater-Provoked Heart Attacks, it increases the amount dedicated to that cause by $100.
I am actually a huge believer in donating small, and the following story is not to pat me and Glow on the back, but to give an example.
We have said before that our kids went to a magnet program that is located in an otherwise "At-Risk" school. It is only about 30% white, even if you include the magnet program. They struggle filling out sports teams because a lot of the kids have to work after school, or babysit their brothers and sisters while their parents work. Glow jr. ran cross country, and their team had maybe 15-20 boys on it in a good year. They are in a conference that has a lot of schools from wealthy areas like St. Charles and Naperville that would bring two busloads of kids to a meet.
If you know anything about Cross Country in the Midwest, you know it's a fall sport, and in October and November, it can get pretty freaking cold standing outside waiting around before and after your race. All the wealthy schools had beautiful custom tents in the school colors to help keep the kids warm. Our school had one of those pop-up white canopies like you see at craft fairs with gray tarps tacked up on the sides.
It bothered me that our team was always the "ghetto school" at these meets, so I looked up the manufacturer of a particularly beautiful tent one of the other teams had, and discovered that the cost was quite reasonable and well within the Glow budget. Working with the Athletic director, we ordered a tent that was a perfect match for our school colors, had the school logo on both main sides of the roof, with "[Glow jr.'s high school] Cross Country" emblazoned on the sides.
When the tent came in, we brought it to a team meeting and had the boys set it up. We were unprepared for the pure joy and gratitude we saw expressed by these kids. One of them said, "This is one of the best days of my life".
If you don't want to donate to Marquette generically, maybe there is a fund or cause you want to support. Donate to Campus Ministry, or to the Mardi Gras service program, or to the James Foley Scholarship fund.
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But what if I feel the ideals, goals and objectives of other charities are more important?
Then say that. Who wouldn't respect that choice?
My beef is with people that say they don't donate to Marquette because they can't afford it, or because they are no longer the Warriors.
I am sure some underprivileged kids who need scholarship money don't care what the team's nickname is.
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You can still do that at larger organizations if you take advantage of special endowment funds. For example, the American Heart Association has a budget for research expenditures. If you send them $100 and tell them you want it to go to "research", technically your money will indeed go to research, but nothing stops them from taking $100 out of the already allocated research dollars and using it for something else. It ends up being a wash.
However, if you donate $100 to the AHA's Scoop Endowment for the Prevention of Buzzerbeater-Provoked Heart Attacks, it increases the amount dedicated to that cause by $100.
I am actually a huge believer in donating small, and the following story is not to pat me and Glow on the back, but to give an example.
We have said before that our kids went to a magnet program that is located in an otherwise "At-Risk" school. It is only about 30% white, even if you include the magnet program. They struggle filling out sports teams because a lot of the kids have to work after school, or babysit their brothers and sisters while their parents work. Glow jr. ran cross country, and their team had maybe 15-20 boys on it in a good year. They are in a conference that has a lot of schools from wealthy areas like St. Charles and Naperville that would bring two busloads of kids to a meet.
If you know anything about Cross Country in the Midwest, you know it's a fall sport, and in October and November, it can get pretty freaking cold standing outside waiting around before and after your race. All the wealthy schools had beautiful custom tents in the school colors to help keep the kids warm. Our school had one of those pop-up white canopies like you see at craft fairs with gray tarps tacked up on the sides.
It bothered me that our team was always the "ghetto school" at these meets, so I looked up the manufacturer of a particularly beautiful tent one of the other teams had, and discovered that the cost was quite reasonable and well within the Glow budget. Working with the Athletic director, we ordered a tent that was a perfect match for our school colors, had the school logo on both main sides of the roof, with "[Glow jr.'s high school] Cross Country" emblazoned on the sides.
When the tent came in, we brought it to a team meeting and had the boys set it up. We were unprepared for the pure joy and gratitude we saw expressed by these kids. One of them said, "This is one of the best days of my life".
If you don't want to donate to Marquette generically, maybe there is a fund or cause you want to support. Donate to Campus Ministry, or to the Mardi Gras service program, or to the James Foley Scholarship fund.
That's a nice story, Chick. Good on you guys. Also, it absolutely supports the point Fluffy was making. I understand your love for Marquette and your enthusiastic encouragement for people to support it (and I was persuaded by you just a few days ago). But your story illustrates the point that small contributions to smaller organizations can have a much more profound impact than to larger organizations. Glow's "you couldn't be more uninformed" was a little over the top.
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Then say that. Who wouldn't respect that choice?
My beef is with people that say they don't donate to Marquette because they can't afford it, or because they are no longer the Warriors.
I am sure some underprivileged kids who need scholarship money don't care what the team's nickname is.
What he said was that he felt his contribution would have more impact to a smaller organization. A totally legitimate position. Glow's response was, "you couldn't be more uninformed." If you're all about encouraging people to be honest about why they don't give to Marquette, I'd think Glow's smug response would strike a cord with you.
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Then say that. Who wouldn't respect that choice?
My beef is with people that say they don't donate to Marquette because they can't afford it, or because they are no longer the Warriors.
I am sure some underprivileged kids who need scholarship money don't care what the team's nickname is.
The no donating due to the name is the most idiotic reason I used to here when I was at Phonathon. And there were some ridiculous ones.
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You can still do that at larger organizations if you take advantage of special endowment funds. For example, the American Heart Association has a budget for research expenditures. If you send them $100 and tell them you want it to go to "research", technically your money will indeed go to research, but nothing stops them from taking $100 out of the already allocated research dollars and using it for something else. It ends up being a wash.
However, if you donate $100 to the AHA's Scoop Endowment for the Prevention of Buzzerbeater-Provoked Heart Attacks, it increases the amount dedicated to that cause by $100.
I am actually a huge believer in donating small, and the following story is not to pat me and Glow on the back, but to give an example.
We have said before that our kids went to a magnet program that is located in an otherwise "At-Risk" school. It is only about 30% white, even if you include the magnet program. They struggle filling out sports teams because a lot of the kids have to work after school, or babysit their brothers and sisters while their parents work. Glow jr. ran cross country, and their team had maybe 15-20 boys on it in a good year. They are in a conference that has a lot of schools from wealthy areas like St. Charles and Naperville that would bring two busloads of kids to a meet.
If you know anything about Cross Country in the Midwest, you know it's a fall sport, and in October and November, it can get pretty freaking cold standing outside waiting around before and after your race. All the wealthy schools had beautiful custom tents in the school colors to help keep the kids warm. Our school had one of those pop-up white canopies like you see at craft fairs with gray tarps tacked up on the sides.
It bothered me that our team was always the "ghetto school" at these meets, so I looked up the manufacturer of a particularly beautiful tent one of the other teams had, and discovered that the cost was quite reasonable and well within the Glow budget. Working with the Athletic director, we ordered a tent that was a perfect match for our school colors, had the school logo on both main sides of the roof, with "[Glow jr.'s high school] Cross Country" emblazoned on the sides.
When the tent came in, we brought it to a team meeting and had the boys set it up. We were unprepared for the pure joy and gratitude we saw expressed by these kids. One of them said, "This is one of the best days of my life".
If you don't want to donate to Marquette generically, maybe there is a fund or cause you want to support. Donate to Campus Ministry, or to the Mardi Gras service program, or to the James Foley Scholarship fund.
Great story Chick.
X-Country related - The canopy (not the nice tent Chick mentioned) with my kids high school logo disappeared. My kids said the youth football program "borrowed" from the school and never returned. My mom had a canopy that she no longer used and donated to my kids X-Country team. One of the students on the team made a logo in Silkscreen Class and put on the canopy. The kids were happy they created their own canopy and were not left out at Invitationals as one of the few schools without one. (The school is a well off district but only spends money on football (very bad team), hockey (very bad team) and baseball (excellent team).
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I also donate sporadically for campaigns when I am contacted by MU, maybe once a year and usually only in small amounts ($25-$50). I donate more regularly to other charities that I care more about, primarily my local no-kill animal shelter. I agree with others that donations to smaller organizations are more impactful and meaningful to both the organization and me as the donor. So these organizations will probably always get my dollars before institutions like MU. Knowing a couple hundred bucks will literally save a dog's life will always trump what that money would do for MU.
I may choose to donate more meaningfully to MU once student loans are all paid off, which should be in the next couple years. It does rub me a bit that they start contacting you for donations so aggressively right after graduation. I started getting phonathon calls right away. It is a bit tone deaf when their average graduate is starting out with tens of thousands of dollars in debt.
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What he said was that he felt his contribution would have more impact to a smaller organization. A totally legitimate position. Glow's response was, "you couldn't be more uninformed." If you're all about encouraging people to be honest about why they don't give to Marquette, I'd think Glow's smug response would strike a cord with you.
Thanks. When it comes down to it Marquette just isn’t as important to me as it others. Nothing good or bad about that.
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That's a nice story, Chick. Good on you guys. Also, it absolutely supports the point Fluffy was making. I understand your love for Marquette and your enthusiastic encouragement for people to support it (and I was persuaded by you just a few days ago). But your story illustrates the point that small contributions to smaller organizations can have a much more profound impact than to larger organizations. Glow's "you couldn't be more uninformed" was a little over the top.
This, entirely.
Donate $100 to Marquette and it goes on a big wheelbarrow full of money the likes of which most other charities can't dream.
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I had a story like Chick's.
We had a call from a program that needed money to aid an at-risk student with strong intellectual skills who needed help. The question wasn't, well, "you can get it from ________________ (fill in big charity, large donor, other organization)." Instead it was, "how much do you need," and "should the money be wired in or can you wait for a check?"
I won't go into more detail because the issue is close to home, but suffice to say, we did what we were called to do. At Marquette, we've given money to scholarships. I've argued on these pages and elsewhere that yes, I'm fearful that I'm subsidizing big tuition increases. But I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I know that if I'm not there, maybe some deserving student who would get from Marquette what did couldn't go!
When students called me about donating to the Alumni Memorial Union years ago, I politely asked them how they were paying for Marquette. They said, "scholarships," and I asked them "where do you think the money that supports those scholarships comes from?"
Bottom line folks (warning, mild political comment coming): If you want to be part of the solution, you educate people. Marquette is part of the solution and I'm proud our investment is helping to educate folks. Period.
P.S. -- We do not ignore other needs either. It's not an either/or.
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This, entirely.
Donate $100 to Marquette and it goes on a big wheelbarrow full of money the likes of which most other charities can't dream.
.
Yep.
I'd still love to hear how $100 makes a difference at MU if anyone wants to take on this argument.
I'll write the check tomorrow if the argument is convincing enough...
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I had a story like Chick's.
We had a call from a program that needed money to aid an at-risk student with strong intellectual skills who needed help. The question wasn't, well, "you can get it from ________________ (fill in big charity, large donor, other organization)." Instead it was, "how much do you need," and "should the money be wired in or can you wait for a check?"
I won't go into more detail because the issue is close to home, but suffice to say, we did what we were called to do. At Marquette, we've given money to scholarships. I've argued on these pages and elsewhere that yes, I'm fearful that I'm subsidizing big tuition increases. But I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I know that if I'm not there, maybe some deserving student who would get from Marquette what did couldn't go!
When students called me about donating to the Alumni Memorial Union years ago, I politely asked them how they were paying for Marquette. They said, "scholarships," and I asked them "where do you think the money that supports those scholarships comes from?"
Bottom line folks (warning, mild political comment coming): If you want to be part of the solution, you educate people. Marquette is part of the solution and I'm proud our investment is helping to educate folks. Period.
P.S. -- We do not ignore other needs either. It's not an either/or.
A great deal of the money that support scholarships comes from other student’s tuition payments.
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I echo FBM here, because apparently I'm "uninformed" too. How?
The concept is a bit of a logical fallacy. Lets say you donate $100 to a University with a an annual budget of $1000 to divide across 100 scholarships it gives across a student body of 1000 students.
That means on average each scholarship is $10. The $100 donation can allow the university to give out 10 new scholarships.
If you give the same $100 to a university with an annual budget of $10,000 to divide 1000 scholarships across a student body of 10,000 students. Again each scholarship is $10. So the $100 donation can allow the university to give out 10 new scholarships.
The net impact in terms of number of scholarships you are funding are identical.
That assumes that the efficiency of both universities is the same. The reality is that often the smaller institutions are less efficient, leading to some of that donation money going to infrastructure instead of the desired scholarship goal.
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A great deal of the money that support scholarships comes from other student’s tuition payments.
Fluff, ole buddy. That wasn't a scholarship. That's all I'll say.
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.
Yep.
I'd still love to hear how $100 makes a difference at MU if anyone wants to take on this argument.
I'll write the check tomorrow if the argument is convincing enough...
Brother Gyros -- Write the check.
The journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step. Is the first step out the door any less important than the last step before you end your journey?
No, it isn't. Every step counts. You can't make the journey if you don't take every step. Some steps are bigger than others. Some smaller. Some are faster. Some are barely measurable.
Three weeks ago, I was in a glorious Cathedral in Bayeux, Normandy, France. Thousands upon thousands of stones were used to build the Cathedral. Tons of glass was fabricated in way that told the story of the angels and saints. Of God and Jesus Christ. Some of the stained glass is more obvious and more elegant than that the stones that comprise the walls that hold the building up. Yet skilled craftsmen were involved in every element of the building. No one stone nor one piece of glass is more important than the others. Some are bigger and smaller and some are more noticeable. But the Cathedral would not exist without each component and without the skills of tens of thousands of people who designed and build it.
Contributions are the same way. Some are larger. Some are smaller. Some are targeted and some go for unions, dorms and sports teams. Individually, none by themselves matter. But as a group, they allow a university to do great things.
Write the check, OK?
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Yep.
I'd still love to hear how $100 makes a difference at MU if anyone wants to take on this argument.
I'll write the check tomorrow if the argument is convincing enough...
What you have to do is direct the money to a specific cause. For instance, make a commitment to donate $100 a year to your department of choice to award a cash scholarship to the highest performing first-generation college student, or any caveat you wish to make sure it goes to a deserving cause.
An example student I know of, grew up in probably one of the worst areas in the country. He got a scholarship to go to a nice private high school, but it was almost 2 hours in bus rides to get to and from school each way. When he did get home he worked late shift jobs at a fast food place, to make sure that their was food on the table, and power in his house to support his siblings. He never had a computer, or anything to support his education, but he worked his tail off and was able to make it into a top 50 school.
With loans and everything he was barely able to get by. He got a $100 scholarship of this type from his department. He had tears in his eyes. To him, it was both a godsend in terms of money, but also validation for how hard he had to work to just be there.
To him, it "making a difference" is an understatement.
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Fluff, ole buddy. That wasn't a scholarship. That's all I'll say.
Yes it is. The universitiy’s budget includes institutional scholarships and financial aid as an expense. Look at the various “scholarships” that students s can qualify for. Those aren’t all donor funded.
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.
Yep.
I'd still love to hear how $100 makes a difference at MU if anyone wants to take on this argument.
I'll write the check tomorrow if the argument is convincing enough...
If the 87% of alums who don't currently contribute each donated $100, it would fund almost 250 full scholarships.
The people who say "$100 doesn't matter" are the same folks that say "my vote doesn't count" and then bitch about who is elected.
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Yes it is. The universitiy’s budget includes institutional scholarships and financial aid as an expense. Look at the various “scholarships” that students s can qualify for. Those aren’t all donor funded.
I am pretty sure all scholarships are listed as an expense, whether they are funded by donations or not.
In other words, let's say that an endowment that is set up to fund scholarships earns $100 in investment income. They used that money to give someone a $100 scholarship. That would be reflected on Marquette's books as $100 of revenue and $100 of scholarship expense.
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I am pretty sure all scholarships are listed as an expense, whether they are funded by donations or not.
In other words, let's say that an endowment that is set up to fund scholarships earns $100 in investment income. They used that money to give someone a $100 scholarship. That would be reflected on Marquette's books as $100 of revenue and $100 of scholarship expense.
Sister Chick, don’t confuse laymen and lay women with double entry accounting.
😱
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Yes it is. The universitiy’s budget includes institutional scholarships and financial aid as an expense. Look at the various “scholarships” that students s can qualify for. Those aren’t all donor funded.
Your logic here is misleading at best, and genuinely inaccurate.
It's akin to saying if you buy a candy bar at the campus store, you are supporting a scholarship. Because it gets listed as revenue, and revenue is used to offset expenses.
Quit being misleading.
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I think Chick summed it up well, but here is the case for small donations.
25 classes with 25% of people giving $100 is just shy of $2M per year. If that is a 30 year payment stream it is the equivalent of a ~$30M donation today. So a big deal - and many scholarships funded, if that is where you designate the donation.
If you don't believe that MU will deploy those funds to a good cause, that's your prerogative. However, it does matter and it would make an impact to have a higher level of ENGAGEMENT from the masses.
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I think Chick summed it up well, but here is the case for small donations.
25 classes with 25% of people giving $100 is just shy of $2M per year. If that is a 30 year payment stream it is the equivalent of a ~$30M donation today. So a big deal - and many scholarships funded, if that is where you designate the donation.
If you don't believe that MU will deploy those funds to a good cause, that's your prerogative. However, it does matter and it would make an impact to have a higher level of ENGAGEMENT from the masses.
Multiply that by two for a matching gift.
Just by my season ticket donation, I am a six figure donor in that time or less.
It takes a Scoop.
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The people who say "$100 doesn't matter" are the same folks that say "my vote doesn't count" and then bitch about who is elected.
That's actually a great analogy, let's say we are comparing it to a Presidential election.
Of course your vote counts no matter what. But it does count more in a swing state like Wisconsin than it does in solid blue Illinois. The size and nature of the organization does make a difference in impact. Some people would prefer their vote (or donation) to have a more tangible impact, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
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Your logic here is misleading at best, and genuinely inaccurate.
It's akin to saying if you buy a candy bar at the campus store, you are supporting a scholarship. Because it gets listed as revenue, and revenue is used to offset expenses.
Quit being misleading.
It's not misleading and it is entirely accurate.
Anytime you have a system whereby certain people pay more than others, those who pay more are subsidizing those who pay less. Marquette is discounting its tuition by various amounts. They label that discount as "awards" or "scholarships," but in reality they are not entirely covered by gift income or endowment income.
So for a number of the scholarships on this page, especially those under "General Awards"? Certain students are subsidizing others.
https://www.marquette.edu/explore/scholarships.php
So there is nothing misleading about my statement "A great deal of the money that support scholarships comes from other student’s tuition payments." It is 100% accurate.
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That's actually a great analogy, let's say we are comparing it to a Presidential election.
Of course your vote counts no matter what. But it does count more in a swing state like Wisconsin than it does in solid blue Illinois. The size and nature of the organization does make a difference in impact. Some people would prefer their vote (or donation) to have a more tangible impact, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
I vote in Florida.
I promise you, my vote matters!
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It's not misleading and it is entirely accurate.
Anytime you have a system whereby certain people pay more than others, those who pay more are subsidizing those who pay less. Marquette is discounting its tuition by various amounts. They label that discount as "awards" or "scholarships," but in reality they are not entirely covered by gift income or endowment income.
So for a number of the scholarships on this page, especially those under "General Awards"? Certain students are subsidizing others.
https://www.marquette.edu/explore/scholarships.php
So there is nothing misleading about my statement "A great deal of the money that support scholarships comes from other student’s tuition payments." It is 100% accurate.
Except for the fact that it is 100% inaccurate with the way university budgets and accounting are conducted.
You can believe anything you want...but you are still wrong.
Chick did a great job of explaining general aspects of how the accounting is done and why what you are saying is false.
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Except for the fact that it is 100% inaccurate with the way university budgets and accounting are conducted.
You can believe anything you want...but you are still wrong.
Chick did a great job of explaining general aspects of how the accounting is done and why what you are saying is false.
If you have two students, both in the same major, and Sally is paying less than the cost to educate her while Fred is paying more than the cost to educate him, how is Fred not subsidizing Sally's education? Especially when donations and endowment income do not make up for that entire difference.
So it's not wrong. It's not misleading. And chick's explanation did not address this point.
You should probably give up now.
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I vote in Florida.
I promise you, my vote matters!
Unfortunately so do the hanging chads.
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If you have two students, both in the same major, and Sally is paying less than the cost to educate her while Fred is paying more than the cost to educate him, how is Fred not subsidizing Sally's education? Especially when donations and endowment income do not make up for that entire difference.
So it's not wrong. It's not misleading. And chick's explanation did not address this point.
You should probably give up now.
You've made an assumption here that donations and endowment income, and other financial aid sources that are obligated to go towards specific students, do not make up the entire difference.
Your assumption is wrong.
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What he said was that he felt his contribution would have more impact to a smaller organization. A totally legitimate position. Glow's response was, "you couldn't be more uninformed." If you're all about encouraging people to be honest about why they don't give to Marquette, I'd think Glow's smug response would strike a cord with you.
I was specifically referring to '$100 or $1000 doesn't really matter', not the part distinguishing between large and small organizations. Perhaps I should have bolded that part in the copied segment.
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Brother Gyros -- Write the check.
The journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step. Is the first step out the door any less important than the last step before you end your journey?
No, it isn't. Every step counts. You can't make the journey if you don't take every step. Some steps are bigger than others. Some smaller. Some are faster. Some are barely measurable.
Three weeks ago, I was in a glorious Cathedral in Bayeux, Normandy, France. Thousands upon thousands of stones were used to build the Cathedral. Tons of glass was fabricated in way that told the story of the angels and saints. Of God and Jesus Christ. Some of the stained glass is more obvious and more elegant than that the stones that comprise the walls that hold the building up. Yet skilled craftsmen were involved in every element of the building. No one stone nor one piece of glass is more important than the others. Some are bigger and smaller and some are more noticeable. But the Cathedral would not exist without each component and without the skills of tens of thousands of people who designed and build it.
Contributions are the same way. Some are larger. Some are smaller. Some are targeted and some go for unions, dorms and sports teams. Individually, none by themselves matter. But as a group, they allow a university to do great things.
Write the check, OK?
Very well written dgies.
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You've made an assumption here that donations and endowment income, and other financial aid sources that are obligated to go towards specific students, do not make up the entire difference.
Your assumption is wrong.
Nice (unsupported) shifting of the goalposts. Talk about misleading.
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Nice (unsupported) shifting of the goalposts. Talk about misleading.
I never shifted goalposts. I told you that your statements were misleading at best, and genuinely inaccurate. It is incorrect.
I (and Chick), explained that your ideas regarding how these were funded, and how the accounting was done is incorrect. It is incorrect.
You tried to justify your assertions, by making an incorrect assumption. I informed you that assumption is also incorrect.
My support for this, is I have two decades of experience in this arena. You are welcome to go on and continue to believe whatever you wish. Personally I don't care what you believe.
My concern is that other people will see what you wrote, and incorrectly decide donating for scholarships is not worthwhile, or come to other false conclusions, based on your incorrect and/or misleading statements.
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Unfortunately so do the hanging chads.
We don’t have that anymore. Instead, we have Palm Beach and Broward Counties, where the election commissioner can’t count ballots no matter how hard they try.
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I never shifted goalposts. I told you that your statements were misleading at best, and genuinely inaccurate. It is incorrect.
I (and Chick), explained that your ideas regarding how these were funded, and how the accounting was done is incorrect. It is incorrect.
You tried to justify your assertions, by making an incorrect assumption. I informed you that assumption is also incorrect.
My support for this, is I have two decades of experience in this arena. You are welcome to go on and continue to believe whatever you wish. Personally I don't care what you believe.
My concern is that other people will see what you wrote, and incorrectly decide donating for scholarships is not worthwhile, or come to other false conclusions, based on your incorrect and/or misleading statements.
Actually I know exactly of what I am speaking and you are wrong.
Still.
Again.
Your two decades of experience has really taught you nothing.
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Actually I know exactly of what I am speaking and you are wrong.
Still.
Again.
Your two decades of experience has really taught you nothing.
Well, Sultan, we are not going to agree on this, and I'll continue to encourage individuals to not be affected by your claims in terms of donating to any University.
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Well, Sultan, we are not going to agree on this, and I'll continue to encourage individuals to not be affected by your claims in terms of donating to any University.
Not Sultan.
I’m not disputing that people should donate to Marquette or any other university. I never made that claim in the least. I am just saying that some students subsidize others. And actually the more people give the less that subsidy occurs.
But don’t tell me they don’t because that’s not the case.
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O.K., so the rich kid subsidizes the poor kid.
When they graduate the rich kid never supports the university because he/she feels they gave extra while they were paying higher tuition.
The poor kid feels gratitude and an obligation.
Some poor kids actually after graduation gave buildings to the university because they did very, very, very well based on their "support" from the university. (BTW, I know this first hand, please no names mentioned)
Most of the rich kids give squat, ah, because they feel they were taken advantage of by the university.
Some poor kids remain poor, that's life. Most rich kids, call it privilege, remain well off, that's life.
End of the day, it is what it is, but I like the poor kids a lot more than the rich kids. My university gave me a big brake and I'm no dead beat.
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The debate instigated by Brother Fluffy et al goes to a fundamental question at Marquette: "Who pays rack rate?" Top be blunt, the folks who pay rack rate, or full tuition, are in fact supporting (I hate the concept of "subsidizing") the university in a way that allows it to discount to other folks.
From a personal level, neither of my children were National Merit Scholars, had 4.0 GPAs and a 34 or better on the ACT. While I exaggerate, neither received academic scholarships.
Likewise, need based scholarships were out of the question. So, if our children were going to college, Ms. Dgies and I were going to pay the full rate. We knew that going in. Period. Regardless of where they ended up, our children were going to get financial support only if they were separated from us financially.
So, to some degree, we probably "have educated" more that just our children. That's the breaks. You accept it and move on. Likewise, if a university is doing great things, as I said earlier in this thread, you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You support it because it's making a difference in a community's life, in educating people who might not otherwise be educated and because education is the best way I know out of poverty.
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The debate instigated by Brother Fluffy et al goes to a fundamental question at Marquette: "Who pays rack rate?" Top be blunt, the folks who pay rack rate, or full tuition, are in fact supporting (I hate the concept of "subsidizing") the university in a way that allows it to discount to other folks.
From a personal level, neither of my children were National Merit Scholars, had 4.0 GPAs and a 34 or better on the ACT. While I exaggerate, neither received academic scholarships.
Likewise, need based scholarships were out of the question. So, if our children were going to college, Ms. Dgies and I were going to pay the full rate. We knew that going in. Period. Regardless of where they ended up, our children were going to get financial support only if they were separated from us financially.
So, to some degree, we probably "have educated" more that just our children. That's the breaks. You accept it and move on. Likewise, if a university is doing great things, as I said earlier in this thread, you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You support it because it's making a difference in a community's life, in educating people who might not otherwise be educated and because education is the best way I know out of poverty.
That’s all I was saying and I agree with you 100%.
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The debate instigated by Brother Fluffy et al goes to a fundamental question at Marquette: "Who pays rack rate?" Top be blunt, the folks who pay rack rate, or full tuition, are in fact supporting (I hate the concept of "subsidizing") the university in a way that allows it to discount to other folks.
From a personal level, neither of my children were National Merit Scholars, had 4.0 GPAs and a 34 or better on the ACT. While I exaggerate, neither received academic scholarships.
Likewise, need based scholarships were out of the question. So, if our children were going to college, Ms. Dgies and I were going to pay the full rate. We knew that going in. Period. Regardless of where they ended up, our children were going to get financial support only if they were separated from us financially.
So, to some degree, we probably "have educated" more that just our children. That's the breaks. You accept it and move on. Likewise, if a university is doing great things, as I said earlier in this thread, you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You support it because it's making a difference in a community's life, in educating people who might not otherwise be educated and because education is the best way I know out of poverty.
Very mature, reasonable, magnanimous, practical, Christian, and responsible.
Hard to believe we have so many heartless, selfish, cheap losers around here.
Hay, it takes all kinds, thanks for telling it like it is.
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Very mature, reasonable, magnanimous, practical, Christian, and responsible.
Hard to believe we have so many heartless, selfish, cheap losers around here.
Hay, it takes all kinds, thanks for telling it like it is.
Vogue, thank you.
The only issue I have with you is the notion that others in here are heartless, selfish, cheap losers. That's unfair. It's also disrespectful of others' positions.
Look, I give to MU and other institutions of higher learning. Others may give to wipe out disease, help animals, foster the arts, mitigate disasters or any number of important things. While I wish more people gave to Marquette, the fact that they give to make our world better is something we should encourage and applaud. While I may not share their priorities, let's not belittle them.
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I donate once or twice a year, not a lot. I feel very tied to MU and my experiences there. Excited for a cousin who starts in the fall as a freshman.
I looked up info about Franciscan University. Let’s just say it wouldn’t be for me, weekly Mass -attender that I am.
Did MU ever even offer a course on the sacraments? I certainly don’t remember one, though I also wouldn’t have looked for one either, as my interests tend more to social justice.
Yes, a required course for all Catholic undergrads devoted to Christian marriage was taught by Father McEvoy. Also, Father Bernard Cooke the dean of theology at the time taught a semester course on the sacraments.
This was in the mid to late 60s when I attended and no; I was not looking either as I majored in Chemistry and Biology. All Catholic undergrads were required to take 6, 2 credit, courses in theology in order to graduate.
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Vogue, thank you.
The only issue I have with you is the notion that others in here are heartless, selfish, cheap losers. That's unfair. It's also disrespectful of others' positions.
Look, I give to MU and other institutions of higher learning. Others may give to wipe out disease, help animals, foster the arts, mitigate disasters or any number of important things. While I wish more people gave to Marquette, the fact that they give to make our world better is something we should encourage and applaud. While I may not share their priorities, let's not belittle them.
Sorry, you are right, I was over the top. Some people need a little belittling, I suppose I should keep my mouth shut and let their reasoning speak for itself.
Nevertheless, the discussion was about people who can afford list price complaining that they are subsidizing needy students. Agreed, they may be big spenders about other causes, I doubt that, but we were talking about need based scholarships. BTW, back in the mid 60's I worked my way and MU was the "only" quality low cost solution for me.
The higher education business model has changed and now we have disgruntled alumni, pitty.