Mack to Louisville?

[muwarrior69]

I think this is pretty good. I might add ability to win across multiple coaches. There are exactly 2 eras in UCLA basketball, with Wooden and without. Same with Knight at I4, same with Al at MU.

Kentucky has won with multiple coaches, so has Kansas, so has UNC. Duke gets a pass because their hall of fame coach is still there and is approaching his 40th year there, and when he does retire, I fully expect Duke to have their pick of almost any coach in America. 

Nova might fall under this category, but I think there would be too much time between coaches. Obviously if they continue to win the way they have for the last 3 years that could change but any school can luck into a great hire once. If they have back to back hall of famers that stick around for a decade+ you're getting into blue blood territory.

Any school that has blue as one of its school colors is a blue blood. Therefore Marquette is a blue blood just like Duke, UNC, Kansas and Kentucky.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Seriously, fellas:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2017/06/08/greg-mcdermott-turns-down-ohio-state-stay-creighton/102629442/

I'm aware. It's a very common tactic in the coaching world to leak to media that an "offer" has been extended to a coach. The coach then turns around and tells his current school "pay me or I walk." Buzz was a master at this.

What I have been told is that McDermott was interviewed but never offered.

Article stating Buzz's VT contract was less than that at MU:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/buzz-williams-contract-to-coach-virginia-tech-basketball-offers-several-incentives-and-perks/2014/05/21/d1a1fbd6-e02b-11e3-8dcc-d6b7fede081a_story.html?utm_term=.399e91de5673

https://painttouches.com/2014/05/14/buzz-williams-virginia-tech-contract-details/

Yes, Buzz took a "pay cut." He also has Virginia Tech over a barrel. Salary isn't the only thing to look at in a coach's contract.

[GooooMarquette]

I think this is pretty good. I might add ability to win across multiple coaches. There are exactly 2 eras in UCLA basketball, with Wooden and without. Same with Knight at I4, same with Al at MU.

Kentucky has won with multiple coaches, so has Kansas, so has UNC. Duke gets a pass because their hall of fame coach is still there and is approaching his 40th year there, and when he does retire, I fully expect Duke to have their pick of almost any coach in America. 

Nova might fall under this category, but I think there would be too much time between coaches. Obviously if they continue to win the way they have for the last 3 years that could change but any school can luck into a great hire once. If they have back to back hall of famers that stick around for a decade+ you're getting into blue blood territory.

All of Duke's championships have been under K, but they had a pretty decent history before him. They had been to 4 Final Fours before K ever set foot on campus, and gotten runner up twice. 3 of the Final Fours were under Vic Bubas in the 60s, and one under Bill Foster in the 70s. Altogether, they have been to Final Fours in 6 different decades under 3 different coaches. I'd say that's some pretty solid sustained success across coaches.

Indiana also had a pretty good coach in Branch McCracken, who won 2 national titles in the 40s and 50s.

[GGGG]

I think this is pretty good. I might add ability to win across multiple coaches. There are exactly 2 eras in UCLA basketball, with Wooden and without. Same with Knight at I4, same with Al at MU.

Indiana won two national championships under Branch McCracken.

[Its DJOver]

Indiana won two national championships under Branch McCracken.

If we're not counting Madison's championship from the WWII era, I'm not sure we can count his either. Hall of famer no doubt, but the glory days for I4 were under Knight.

[Its DJOver]

All of Duke's championships have been under K, but they had a pretty decent history before him. They had been to 4 Final Fours before K ever set foot on campus, and gotten runner up twice. 3 of the Final Fours were under Vic Bubas in the 60s, and one under Bill Foster in the 70s. Altogether, they have been to Final Fours in 6 different decades under 3 different coaches. I'd say that's some pretty solid sustained success across coaches.

Indiana also had a pretty good coach in Branch McCracken, who won 2 national titles in the 40s and 50s.

All true and should be considered. I said that multiple coaches success should only be part of the qualifications. Regardless K has enough success to be a blue blood by himself. And while they had success before he got there, blue bloods don't get their title by getting close to a championship they get it by winning championships.

[We R Final Four]

PRE-WWII era.

[GGGG]

If we're not counting Madison's championship from the WWII era, I'm not sure we can count his either. Hall of famer no doubt, but the glory days for I4 were under Knight.

But that's different then saying there were only two eras of IU basketball - with Knight and without.  That's just not true.  McCracken coached 20+ years, won 364 games and two national championships.  Half of their conference championships and 40% of their national championships have occurred under coaches other than Knight.

You just can't ignore history.

[Its DJOver]

But that's different then saying there were only two eras of IU basketball - with Knight and without.  That's just not true.  McCracken coached 20+ years, won 364 games and two national championships.  Half of their conference championships and 40% of their national championships have occurred under coaches other than Knight.

You just can't ignore history.

Not trying to ignore history, but it's a fact that the further you go back the more events get blurred and eventually forgotten. Now I'm sure that a lot of people still remember those days, but if you ask an I4 fan who THE coach in program history is and most will say Knight.

This discussion also furthers my original point since you have to go back almost 80 years to find I4s other relevant decade that the program has faded relative to where they were and should no longer be classified as a blue blood.

[Newsdreams]

Any school that has blue as one of its school colors is a blue blood. Therefore Marquette is a blue blood just like Duke, UNC, Kansas and Kentucky.

Except we always lose on our blue uniforms

[WarriorDad]

Yes, Buzz took a "pay cut." He also has Virginia Tech over a barrel. Salary isn't the only thing to look at in a coach's contract.

Buzz Williams AD on record about the pay cut.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2017/03/29/coach-salary-database-buzz-williams-virginia-tech/99640588/


ESPN the same   http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10648381/buzz-williams-leave-marquette-golden-eagles-coach-virginia-tech-hokies

Washington Post  https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/buzz-williams-left-marquette-for-virginia-tech-and-many-wonder-why/2015/03/09/b6809952-c667-11e4-a199-6cb5e63819d2_story.html?utm_term=.e8f345bc387b

[Lennys Tap]

Buzz Williams AD on record about the pay cut.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2017/03/29/coach-salary-database-buzz-williams-virginia-tech/99640588/


ESPN the same   http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10648381/buzz-williams-leave-marquette-golden-eagles-coach-virginia-tech-hokies

Washington Post  https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/buzz-williams-left-marquette-for-virginia-tech-and-many-wonder-why/2015/03/09/b6809952-c667-11e4-a199-6cb5e63819d2_story.html?utm_term=.e8f345bc387b

Buzz survived the ineptitude and idiocy that was Scott Pilar and Larry Williams but the constant battles left him weary and wary. They messed with Buzz's happy and MU fan have been paying for it ever since.

[The Lens]

What are people's thoughts on UNLV.  One of the dominant programs of the 90's, but dropped off the table when Tarkanian left and was in a non power conference.  Definitely a blue blood of the 90s, but could not sustain success.  I see a lot of similarities between them and Uconn, although Uconn had significantly more success under Calhoun, and some of that even carried over to Ollie.  Both made critical mistakes, UNLV with problems with the NCAA due to drugs among other things, and Uconn with selling their soul to football.

UNLV popped up in someone's Mid Major poll / rankings this year and I wanted to MURDER somebody.  Don't ever do UNLV like that.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Are we really having this discussion about "what constitutes a blue blood" again?

I know, right? With all this talk of needles and blood, I'm getting a little light-headed.

I dislike over-discussion of "Class" when it comes to handicapping horses, so it follows I get tired of hearing who is/isn't a blue blood. I'm not sure it's something to even aspire to. Connotations of easy-street, not earning your place. Kentucky, Duke, Kansas cherry-pick too much top talent. Love the NCAA tournament because "class" is often dismissed in a one-game, win or go home format.

With the equines, there is definitely such a thing as "first to the feed tub" where dominant horses assert their herd dominance. But supposedly "cheaper" horses beat supremely-bred horses every day.

With college hoops today, "class" means even less, as kids today are not fazed by facing the elites and their tradition. Bernie Mac said it best, "I ain't scared-a-you mF's!"

[NorthernDancerColt]

Buzz survived the ineptitude and idiocy that was Scott Pilar and Larry Williams but the constant battles left him weary and wary. They messed with Buzz's happy and MU fan have been paying for it ever since.

Yes but No. The keg has been changed.....drink up.....dilly dilly.

[The Lens]

Buzz survived the ineptitude and idiocy that was Scott Pilar and Larry Williams but the constant battles left him weary and wary. They messed with Buzz's happy and MU fan have been paying for it ever since.

True story...a buddy of mine LIVES and DIES with MU hoops.  Last week his son got married in Japan, in MARCH.  He attended.

I said to my wife: that doesn't happen if Buzz is still coaching.

We need to get back to relevance.

[Lennys Tap]

True story...a buddy of mine LIVES and DIES with MU hoops.  Last week his son got married in Japan, in MARCH.  He attended.

I said to my wife: that doesn't happen if Buzz is still coaching.

We need to get back to relevance.

Amen, brother Lens.

[79Warrior]

There is short term money and long term money.  This is not laughable at all.

He can be at X for the rest of his career potentially.  He may not succeed at Louisville and be out before the 7 years. The expectations are much different.  If that were to happen, he would have made more money staying where he is at.  Impossible to predict the future, but it isn't a laughable argument that could be made.

Sure, whatever.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

True story...a buddy of mine LIVES and DIES with MU hoops.  Last week his son got married in Japan, in MARCH.  He attended.

I said to my wife: that doesn't happen if Buzz is still coaching.

We need to get back to relevance.

So he doesn't go to his own sons wedding if Marquette is playing in March? Seems like his priorities are very, very different than I would guess most people with children.

As much as we like to think otherwise, basketball coaches don't run a university. If Buzz was holding Marquette hostage then I really don't have an issue with the admin moving on.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Buzz' happy needed to be messed with.

The Pilzarz/L Williams administration messed with the happy in the wrong way.

Both of these statements are true. It doesn't need to be a thing people take sides on.

[Goose]

The Lens

Love it. Seems a lot longer than six years ago since we played a game that meant something.

[MU82]

The Lens

Love it. Seems a lot longer than six years ago since we played a game that meant something.

The NCAA game vs. South Carolina didn't matter?

I guess none of the games played in this year's NCAA tournament by any teams mattered, either.

You know, Goose, you can make your point that you believe the program is not progressing under Wojo without making silly (and false) statements like that. You're better than that.

[warriorchick]

The NCAA game vs. South Carolina didn't matter?

I guess none of the games played in this year's NCAA tournament by any teams mattered, either.

You know, Goose, you can make your point that you believe the program is not progressing under Wojo without making silly (and false) statements like that. You're better than that.

Not to get all philisophical, but do any basketball games matter?


If someone is strictly a fan, and cares about Marquette basketball (or any other sport, for that matter) for anything other than entertainment and school/regional pride, I am not sure one's priorities are in the right place.

And if you require 95th percentile performance every single year in order to fulfill your requirements for entertainment and school pride, I feel bad for you.   

[GoldenWarrior11]

Back to Mack.  With his departure, there should be (conceivably) one less strong program in front of Marquette.  Villanova is likely to lose a lot after this season.  Seton Hall is losing a lot.  DePaul will still be down.  St. Johns is always inconsistent.  The cards are setting up nicely for a strong MU season next year, especially if we get that certain grad transfer PG. 

[The Lens]

So he doesn't go to his own sons wedding if Marquette is playing in March? Seems like his priorities are very, very different than I would guess most people with children.

As much as we like to think otherwise, basketball coaches don't run a university. If Buzz was holding Marquette hostage then I really don't have an issue with the admin moving on.

Do you have children ChitownSpaceForRent?  I would suggest you withhold commentary until you do.