MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 25, 2015, 07:42:25 PM
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I know we have a crappy record, but I'll take Wojo any day of the week. When is the last time we had a coach get technicals based purely on competitive rage? Hell, what coach anywhere does that? He's old school and I love it.
Favorite coaches since Rick:
1. Buzz
2. Wojo (but he's quickly rising)
3. KO
4. Deane
5. Dukiet
6. Crean
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Polish Hammer has not impressed me with his coaching. Team looked clueless on man D to start the year...still look inept. Zone was better.
I think positives are he has a good structure to his offense, can get his guys to play hard, and recruits fairly well.
I enjoyed watching Crean's early teams more than Buzz's but Buzz had a helluva run.
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Crean slurpper
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I know we have a crappy record, but I'll take Wojo any day of the week. When is the last time we had a coach get technicals based purely on competitive rage? Hell, what coach anywhere does that?
Not many...cause it's a stupid thing to do.
I think Wojo is going to be fine, but he is making "new coach" mistakes. That is to be expected though and believe he will learn from them.
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Not many...cause it's a stupid thing to do.
I think Wojo is going to be fine, but he is making "new coach" mistakes. That is to be expected though and believe he will learn from them.
I am not sure I'd go so far as to call it "stupid," but I understand that it doesn't usually help. I just love the intensity...which I believe does help.
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Yeah I understand that. I think its a good sign that this team keeps playing very hard. Just not a well rounded team.
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Guess the 'Cats ripped pretty boy a new one, ai na?
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Polish Hammer has not impressed me with his coaching. Team looked clueless on man D to start the year...still look inept. Zone was better.
I think positives are he has a good structure to his offense, can get his guys to play hard, and recruits fairly well.
I enjoyed watching Crean's early teams more than Buzz's but Buzz had a helluva run.
So you enjoyed the Wardle teams get hammered in the mid majors than the three amigos kill it in the Old Big East or the heart attack midgets?
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1) O'Neill - unapologetic in how he ran things, recruited good kids, and they won- took the program off life support to S16, I was really bummed when he left. Lone knock, how he never fully embraced MU's tradition.
2) Crean - he was a different guy when he was first at MU, his ego grew massively during this tenure, but how can the guy who delivered us Dwyane Wade and a Final Four, be lower than two? Again recruited good, talented, kids, and won with them.
3) Wojo- still so early, recruiting thus far excellent, has weeded out some of the selfishness and attitudes in the program, establishing a solid culture that will bring respect back to the program, both on and off the court. Get on board the train now, the guy's going to win a lot here. I hope we can keep him once he does. I don't think i will be too long before he surpasses Crean in my book.
4) Buzz - he won and he won with flair, which was entertaining. Brought some really talented kids that barely were noticed on the recruiting trail (Jimmy, DJO, Crowder). But the off court stuff, and pulling the rugs from signees and commits got so frickin old. THis year we're paying the price because he was unable to adequately replace the DJO's, Crowder's, and Jimmy's, with near the talent and hunger level when they moved on.
5) Deane -poor recruiter generally with a couple exceptions, won with the O'Neill leftovers (another reason O'Neill is top dog right now on my list, he set us up for long term success. Never acted excited about the NCAA tourney, or that it was an every year goal, remember how he talked how much he liked the NIT? Surly guy. Pretty good basketball technician, but he couldn't bring the players in to show it long term. An Irishman who loved his beer and booze, which fits well in the Milwaukee and WI culture of course, but not so much when you're running a high profile program such as MU men's basketball coach. Thank-you Cords for pulling the plug before he brought the program down to the depths of Dukiet's era.
6) Dukiet how can anyone but him be the bottom of everyone's list. poor recruiter, I think one NIT appearance at MU, he was just in way over his head.
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Guess the 'Cats ripped pretty boy a new one, ai na?
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/uJnG1XnXjbLy65NwuqWmyyNPCl4=/0x0:2397x1598/783x522/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/45669906/usa-today-8293234.0.jpg)
http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/2/11/7977925/what-is-a-tom-crean
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1. Buzz
2. Kevin
3. Crean
4. Deane
5. Dukiet
I am not ready to rate Wojo yet. One of the reasons my expectations were so low for this team going in was that Wojo is a first time head coach, trying to put in a new system with other guys players. His staff can beat the players in a pick up game, but other than one guy who had an indifferent record, there isn't anybody who has had a high level position in a winning program. Other than Wojo. He has shown some flexibility, going to a couple of different zones, which is encouraging. I will rate him in a couple of years.
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Yeah I understand that. I think its a good sign that this team keeps playing very hard. Just not a well rounded team.
Thanks to the Lonesome Phony Cowboy.
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(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/uJnG1XnXjbLy65NwuqWmyyNPCl4=/0x0:2397x1598/783x522/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/45669906/usa-today-8293234.0.jpg)
http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/2/11/7977925/what-is-a-tom-crean
Like the Patriotic tie and shirt on Crean. But does he really love the USA?
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1. Buzz
2. Kevin
3. Crean
4. Deane
5. Dukiet
I am not ready to rate Wojo yet. One of the reasons my expectations were so low for this team going in was that Wojo is a first time head coach, trying to put in a new system with other guys players. His staff can beat the players in a pick up game, but other than one guy who had an indifferent record, there isn't anybody who has had a high level position in a winning program. Other than Wojo. He has shown some flexibility, going to a couple of different zones, which is encouraging. I will rate him in a couple of years.
You should be able to rate Buzz with this year's MU team that he built under his belt. But we know he is #1 in your heart.
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Willie, Buzz went to the second weekend of the tournament more times in his 6 years than Crean, Deane, KO, Dukiet, and Majerus combined. Haters gotta hate. And by my reckoning, that is all you do. But you are good at it, so hate away.
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Willie, Buzz went to the second weekend of the tournament more times in his 6 years than Crean, Deane, KO, Dukiet, and Majerus combined. Haters gotta hate. And by my reckoning, that is all you do. But you are good at it, so hate away.
Because some people also care about what was going on behind the scenes as well....it's not always just win baby. Not all the shoes have even dropped yet, whether they ever do will be interesting to see how things unfold.
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Not all the shoes have even dropped yet, whether they ever do will be interesting to see how things unfold.
::)
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Because some people also care about what was going on behind the scenes as well....it's not always just win baby. Not all the shoes have even dropped yet, whether they ever do will be interesting to see how things unfold.
I enjoyed the just-win-babying while it was taking place. I feel sorry for those who didn't. If the other shoe drops, it drops.
That's not saying I want my school to cheat. It's not saying I want my school to accept miscreants. What I want is my school to play within the rules at the time - even if that means pushing the boundary of the rules a bit - and then using its resources to actually produce results on the court.
Any Marquette fan who didn't enjoy S16-S16-S8 while it was taking place, well, I wonder if they really were Marquette fans. I enjoyed the hell out of it!
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Because some people also care about what was going on behind the scenes as well....it's not always just win baby. Not all the shoes have even dropped yet, whether they ever do will be interesting to see how things unfold.
Typical Chico campaign of slur and innuendo. Our very own mini Joe McCarthy. Meanwhile his guy is supervising an absolute cesspool at Indiana and (channeling my inner Chico) he was no better at Marquette.
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1. Buzz
2. Kevin
3. Crean
4. Deane
5. Dukiet
I am not ready to rate Wojo yet. One of the reasons my expectations were so low for this team going in was that Wojo is a first time head coach, trying to put in a new system with other guys players. His staff can beat the players in a pick up game, but other than one guy who had an indifferent record, there isn't anybody who has had a high level position in a winning program. Other than Wojo. He has shown some flexibility, going to a couple of different zones, which is encouraging. I will rate him in a couple of years.
+1
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Because some people also care about what was going on behind the scenes as well....it's not always just win baby. Not all the shoes have even dropped yet, whether they ever do will be interesting to see how things unfold.
I think you should start dropping some shoes then -- you're not going to offend anyone here.
Personally I had so much fun during that stretch. Running UCONN in Hartford out of the building, St John's in MSG for a share of the BE title. Watching that midget team with Lazar gut out every game. Louisville at home with DJOs dunk. Tough losses against great teams on what seemed to be Senior Day every year. Watching Butler go from a hesitant soph to dropping game winning shots....
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Willie, Buzz went to the second weekend of the tournament more times in his 6 years than Crean, Deane, KO, Dukiet, and Majerus combined. Haters gotta hate. And by my reckoning, that is all you do. But you are good at it, so hate away.
And Coach Calcheatucky has outdone Buzz by miles. But that does not mean either is a role model. Buzz was a phony BS'er. Glad you were not able to see through it, it makes it easier to tiptoe through the tulips.
I love the liberal mantra of Haters gotta Hate. By my reckoning, that is all you do. Nothing about hate--all about character--something you seem to have trouble distinguishing.
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I love the liberal mantra of Haters gotta Hate.
That's a "liberal mantra?"
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Buzz went to the second weekend of the tournament more times in his 6 years than Crean, Deane, KO, Dukiet, and Majerus combined. Haters gotta hate.
This.
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Father Wild had a heck of a run. Not to mention Steve Cottingham proved adept in his hires, not just basketball.
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Because some people also care about what was going on behind the scenes as well....it's not always just win baby. Not all the shoes have even dropped yet, whether they ever do will be interesting to see how things unfold.
Then drop 'em baby! I don't think you really need to worry about tarnishing Bert's good name anymore--especially around here. While I know this will force you to lay down your cloak of superiority, let the light in. The truth shall set you free!
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Then drop 'em baby! I don't think you really need to worry about tarnishing Bert's good name anymore--especially around here. While I know this will force you to lay down your cloak of superiority, let the light in. The truth shall set you free!
The "truth" is that every decent D1 program competes hard on and off the court. Fans of programs and coaches who come up a little short often have difficulty admitting that their program or their "guy" didn't quite measure up. Rather than deal with the other guy's factually better results they play the "squirmy" card. The other guy didn't earn his success, blah, blah, blah.
When Notre Dame has cornerbacks who run 4.7 40s and can't tackle their fans play this card. Our kids are "student athletes", we're morally superior to Ohio State, Alabama, USC, etc. When they have guys with 4.45 speed who hit like a ton of bricks and taunt their opponent as he lays on the ground? Not so much.
Same with Chico and the Crean/Buzz comparison. Crean had tranfers, Jucos, even prop 48s. Four of his whopping 5 NCAA tournament victories in 9 years at MU came in a single season - one led by a prop 48 and a transfer from (yech!) Mississippi State. Buzz had transfers and Jucos, too, but no prop 48s. He operated under the same or in some cases more restrictive recruitng rules at MU than Crean did. Yet his results were unquestionably better. When you don't like the facts, change the subject. Muddy the waters with innuendo. Use meaningless phrases like "Just win, baby".
So, unless someone can change the numbers to make TC as successful as Buzz was at MU expect Chico to play the "squirmy" card at every opportunity. It's way easier than just admitting the truth.
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That's a "liberal mantra?"
Absolutely. You need to listen more to the discourse in this country.
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Absolutely. You need to listen more to the discourse in this country.
Actually, it's been more of a conservative mantra lately:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/02/04/aaron-schock-on-his-downton-abbey-office-decor-haters-are-gonna-hate/
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Buzz went to the second weekend of the tournament more times in his 6 years than...Majerus
I take it you are not counting his time at Utah because that run outclasses Bert's by far
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Because some people also care about what was going on behind the scenes as well....it's not always just win baby. Not all the shoes have even dropped yet, whether they ever do will be interesting to see how things unfold.
Do you really want to go casting stones at Buzz as Crean is living in the crystal palace that is IU? Do you really think you can go having a character debate between those two?
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I take it you are not counting his time at Utah because that run outclasses Bert's by far
Didn't Rick also take Ball State to a couple sweet 16's? Ball State!!
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I take it you are not counting his time at Utah because that run outclasses Bert's by far
Rick was a great guy and he became a great coach, Crash, but I think this was careers at Marquette. Ball St or Utah are beside the point, at least for this topic.
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Rick was a great guy and he became a great coach, Crash, but I think this was careers at Marquette. Ball St or Utah are beside the point, at least for this topic.
It wasn't a challenge, Lenny, it was a sincere ask. I have sometimes wondered how things would have been different had we been a founding member of the Big East (we were invited,) and if Majerus were even slightly more ready. History would be very different.
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Then drop 'em baby! I don't think you really need to worry about tarnishing Bert's good name anymore--especially around here. While I know this will force you to lay down your cloak of superiority, let the light in. The truth shall set you free!
I have my squirming pants on. I'm ready for the details, Chicos!
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It wasn't a challenge, Lenny, it was a sincere ask. I have sometimes wondered how things would have been different had we been a founding member of the Big East (we were invited,) and if Majerus were even slightly more ready. History would be very different.
Very true.
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There was a reason most of us who consider ourselves fans and are close to the program were distraught when the Hillbilly left. He produced. The fact is he had a great class coming in and I suspect if he had stayed, we would be a lot better off this year.
So the Hillbilly was the best since Rick, followed by the Tanned One and KO. The sad thing about these two was that if KO had stayed, I think he could have won a national title here. He was recruiting very well and his teams were strong. Crean, I think, peaked in 2003 and could never put two great recruiting classes together.
Wojo is too early. Based on this year alone, he makes Deane and Dukiet look good. But he inherited a mess and has recruited well. I'm optimistic he'll be number one on this list in the years to come.
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Do you really want to go casting stones at Buzz as Crean is living in the crystal palace that is IU? Do you really think you can go having a character debate between those two?
I worry about what they did at Marquette University. What Crean does at IU or Buzz does at Va Tech means not one hill of beans as it is related to Marquette.
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There was a reason most of us who consider ourselves fans and are close to the program were distraught when the Hillbilly left. He produced. The fact is he had a great class coming in and I suspect if he had stayed, we would be a lot better off this year.
So the Hillbilly was the best since Rick, followed by the Tanned One and KO. The sad thing about these two was that if KO had stayed, I think he could have won a national title here. He was recruiting very well and his teams were strong. Crean, I think, peaked in 2003 and could never put two great recruiting classes together.
Wojo is too early. Based on this year alone, he makes Deane and Dukiet look good. But he inherited a mess and has recruited well. I'm optimistic he'll be number one on this list in the years to come.
Ok, seriously, where on earth do you get this idea?
KO was a walking disaster in his personal life and his relationships, which is why he failed everywhere he went after MU. Even when at schools with unlimited resources he bombed everywhere. Losing record at Tennessee, losing record at Northwestern, losing record at USC, and his 19-15 record at Arizona is the worst Arizona record of the last 20 years.
I'm just curious why you think KO would have a chance to win a national title at MU considering where we were at the time, the resources we had, the league we played in, etc.
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Ok, seriously, where on earth do you get this idea?
KO was a walking disaster in his personal life and his relationships, which is why he failed everywhere he went after MU. Even when at schools with unlimited resources he bombed everywhere. Losing record at Tennessee, losing record at Northwestern, losing record at USC, and his 19-15 record at Arizona is the worst Arizona record of the last 20 years.
I'm just curious why you think KO would have a chance to win a national title at MU considering where we were at the time, the resources we had, the league we played in, etc.
1) The talent KO brought in top to bottom was strong both at Marquette and at Tennessee.
2) Had he stayed, his stature would have increased and his presence among potential recruits would have strengthened further. In addition, he would have improved his in-game coaching and brought stability to himself as well as our program.
Look, I agree that KO had a problem at MU. People who knew him repeatedly said he wore out his welcome in Milwaukee. He was abrasive and at times obnoxious. A lot of his problem was that he could not stay in one place long enough to create a tradition.
When O'Neill left Marquette for Tennessee, I thought there was NO reason why he could not have made that program the best in the south. He had advantages we didn't at Marquette at the time and Tennessee was committed to making men's basketball on par with women's basketball. My understanding is he left UT because Men's basketball was in fourth position in the athletic hierarchy, behind football, spring football and women's basketball. I also think I read somewhere that even Pat Summitt begged him to stay at UT.
He appearantly wore out his welcome with the UT faithful too!
I never understood the Northwestern move and still don't!
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He wore out his welcome everywhere he has been. He worked his tail off at MU and for that he will always get the thank you, but his off the court stuff was beyond ridiculous...thank God social media wasn't around.
I was just puzzled at what seemed like a huge leap that he could win a national title. He simply wasn't that great of a coach. He's a great worker.
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Wasn't a bad jogger, either. Used to run past my crib daily.
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KO came in to Marquette with a reputation as a great recruiter. And landing the Tony Miller group that got MU to the S16 is proof of that. Part of his problem is that, not only did he wear out his welcome wherever he went, but he pretty much lost the edge recruiting wise.
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To start with, I want a coach who's going to be great, and who's going to be here for 25 years.
- with KO, it was never going to happen. He was a great guy and probably the best coach since Majerus or even since Al but he had an itch. (Majerus while at MU was nothing like the later Majerus)
- TC was a phony. I cannot imagine how he survives at the most famous basketball school in the country. Bobby Knight must just cringe at the thought of Crean sitting in the same chair.
- Buzz had potential, but it was pretty clear that his self-destructive personality would... destruct.
- The other guys were just losers
- We don't know Wojo yet. He hasn't even had an off-season yet to work on things and he doesn't have many of his own style of player. What I hope is that he'll be here for 25 years and take us to the tournament 23 or 24 of them and win one or two. That's something you can only expect from a great coach in a great program at a great school. I think MU has all the pieces, including the current head coach, but I actually thought the same with Brent for his first couple years.
Marquette somehow allows coaches to be intense or quirky or just plain wierd. I think that's a nice feature of the program. Wojo might not need that extra maneuvering room, but I suspect he'll be happy when he finds it.
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Then drop 'em baby! I don't think you really need to worry about tarnishing Bert's good name anymore--especially around here. While I know this will force you to lay down your cloak of superiority, let the light in. The truth shall set you free!
I will not impinge on friends and sources. He's not here for a reason.
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I worry about what they did at Marquette University. What Crean does at IU or Buzz does at Va Tech means not one hill of beans as it is related to Marquette.
If you truly believed that, you would not have spent so much time and energy defending Crean from all aspersions on so many different boards. It is a convenient hypocrisy for you to toss out now that IU is, by the standards you applied to Buzz while he was at MU, a cesspool.
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I will not impinge on friends and sources. He's not here for a reason.
If that were the truth, you already have.