White Privilege at MU

[tower912]

NYG, I appreciate you and your service.    Having worked closely with the police the last 28 years, I believe every word of what you say.    And I truly believe with all of my heart that 99% of officers get it right 99% of the time.  I love cops.   A former police chief in my town, over a cold one, said to me "the difference between you guys (firefighters) and us is this.    You guys kick in a door and go rushing into a house and you get called heroes.    We kick in a door and go rushing into a house and get sued."     There is a lot of truth there.    The problems develop when the police kick in the wrong door.   
     So many decisions have to be made in the blink of an eye.    Under duress.    I don't fault the police officer who shoots the kid with the realistic looking gun pointing at them.    I have stood next to an officer in tears praying that his brethren find the gun he swore he saw before he shot the guy.  (they did).     The same cop thanked me for helping him find out who shot a kid who clammed up and wouldn't say anything about who shot him.    I climbed in the back of the ambulance, left the door open, started engaging the kid, swearing up a storm with him and while we were bonding in a sea of profanity he let out the name of the punk-a$$ed b**** who shot him.     That cop bought me a beer, too.    I get it and I come as close to understanding it as a non-cop can.
   But these all-too human heroes make mistakes, too.    The one in the current episode we are discussing escalated the situation far beyond what it needed to be.     The kid parked illegally in a nearly empty parking lot at 2 in the morning.      Ticket.   Warning.    Not tasing, arresting.    There could be a thousand other reasons why it happened.    But the optics are a white cop tased an unarmed black man for parking in a handicapped spot. 

[MU82]

nyg:

I got a lot out of your post. I am sure the job is difficult. I know I couldn't be a cop. Thanks for doing what you do.

I do also agree with points others are making about how the cops at the Brown scene did not do their jobs properly. For example, I thought Pakuni made a very good point when he said:

every profession has bad actors. But whenever we read a story about a teacher sexually abusing a child or a lawyer swindling clients, no one rushes out to say that "the vast majority of lawyer-client interactions are positive" or "99 percent of teachers aren't pedophiles." That goes without saying. Cops don't get extra credit for having positive interactions with the people they serve. That's the baseline expectation, right?

I hate seeing Scoop divided (as some have) into "cop-haters" and "cop-respecters." I certainly do not consider myself a cop-hater, yet I do think it is hard to defend the cops in the Brown case and in some others. As always, regardless of the subject or issue, I try to look at each case as it happens, and I try not to have knee-jerk reactions.

Anyway, I won't go on. I've said what I've had to earlier.

My final two words to you are ones I think we all can agree on:

Keep safe.

[MU82]

On a serious note, '82, I wonder if in your media position you ever had an interaction with a high ranking NAACP official? I still don't know why they never changed their name. Not at all excusing your FIL, but you could see how some would use the NAACP excuse to continue to use the term "colored".

I was a sportswriter, so obviously I had a bazillion conversations with black athletes and coaches. However, I never had any kind of relationship or conversation with anybody from the NAACP itself.

But sure, I have heard the excuse that, "Hey, COLORED is right in their organization's name!" Frankly, if I were an NAACP poobah, I'd change the organization's name. But that's just me.

[Jockey]

Jockey, here's the problem I have with your overall position on this. You are treating it as fact that this is racism when we have no idea if that is true or not. This is just as likely really bad policing which is really bad and reason for outrage. I'm with you that it probably was racial motivated but based on the militarization and entitlement of police officers I've encountered I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't them just being bad at their jobs/bad attitude.

Regardless of whether racism was involved or they are just really bad at their jobs it still doesn't raise to the level of it being ok to label a group of people by a highly derogatory term. If we're going to fix these types of problems we're going to need allies from the communities that view the use of pigs as highly inflammatory.

I agree with all of this, Eng. But talk by police is cheap. Only an end to these actions will  solve the issue. Blacks want to be protected from crime just like anyone else. But in many cases, those who are supposed to be protecting them are the ones who are engaging in violent criminal behavior.

I really do try to keep an open mind when I see videos of cops taking down a suspect. In my younger days, I met a guy and two girls who were in the academy and they were talking about how they learned to take someone down. I told them they were dreamers and they could not take me down if I didn't want them to. Long story short, we went to the guys apartment and I let them try to subdue me. They couldn't do it even without me throwing punches (this was a "friendly" exercise.

Point is, if the police need to take down a suspect who does not want to be arrested, it will be violent and if seen on its own, will look like a criminal assault.

My problem has always been cases like Brown or the cases where guys are kicked and beaten after being subdues and cuffed. That is true criminal behavior just as if you were jumped by a bunch of gang members on the street.

[brewcity77]

I never "tooted my horn" or whatever terminology because this is not the place to do it.  As Tower/Brew can attest to, we could spend days telling war stories, but they don't.  Its kept in house, unless asked.  I just want the Scoop community to realize 99% of law enforcement are extremely professional and will go out of their way to help you and your loved ones when in need.  The bad incidents are the ones that get publicized and shed just a terrible light. Its a very, very though profession these days. Enough of this.. Thank you again and I'll just get back to normal thread viewing.

I agree that the vast majority are very professional, & the vast majority of calls public servants go on are fairly straight forward. It's what happens in the small percentage of calls that go sideways when individuals are called on to make split-second decisions. Sometimes even the best of people can make a bad decision. In a world where everything is under the microscope (or on camera), it's not easy.

Honestly, I think the case of where to start with reforming situations like this is in training. When you are in a profession where the vast majority of your time is spent dealing with the public, it would help massively for more time to be spent on deescalation, how to deal with individuals that may be suffering from mental illness or other maladies, & other unpredictable things public servants come across.

In my own line of work, I can attest we spend a lot more training time preparing to fight fires than we do dealing with the public, despite the stark reality that the vast majority of our time is spent providing medical services. Similarly, from what I understand, police spend a lot more time in weapons training than they do learning how to talk to the members of the community in tense situations. We could all be better at dealing with the public, & that video underscores that. I hope we see something positive come of it.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

The lack of personal self discipline among many in my community is the source of a lot of problems.

Bill Cosby would frequently say words to that effect.  The other you have in common with Bill is your desire to get woman impaired and have sex with them.

[reinko]

Bill Cosby would frequently say words to that effect.  The other you have in common with Bill is your desire to get woman impaired and have sex with them.

BWAHHA HAHHA HAAA

[Jockey]

I agree that the vast majority are very professional, & the vast majority of calls public servants go on are fairly straight forward. It's what happens in the small percentage of calls that go sideways when individuals are called on to make split-second decisions. Sometimes even the best of people can make a bad decision. In a world where everything is under the microscope (or on camera), it's not easy.

Very smart post. When any of us makes a bad decision, it can be minimized by a full, immediate apology. I think that is what is missing in cases like Brown's. We didn't need the Police Dept's apology. We needed one from the officers involved. If these officers had gone to Buck's practice the next day and fully apologized, this thread would not even exist.

[rocket surgeon]

Actually, I think we both understand each other. But, I contend the entire incident was avoidable. Brown's dumb luck was the cops happened to drive by at the same time he was illegally parked. Yes, I know it happens all the time without a ticket being issued whether you're white, black, blue, or green.

  yo doc, thank God we don't see all the mis-steps by all the dentists being plastered on page one, EYN'a?
       -next thing ya know,  medpro will be issuing all of us body cams
                       (teal if this riles anyone the wrong way)


  there are close to, if not over 1 million law enforcement personnel with varying degrees of arrest power.  to expect all these people, with all their interactions day in and day out to get it perfect every time is unrealistic to say the least.  yes it is very unfortunate.  yes, every bad occurrence is especially bad for those involved. i believe an improvement would be for all police be more vigilant of each other and not to be afraid to call out the bad behavior of their peers.  in the end, one suffers, they all suffer. in today's day and age, we are utilizing more and better technology to get it right more often.  to get it right ALL THE TIME is unrealistic!  progress toward perfection should be the goal.  with over a million police involved every day, there are going to be bad actors and mistakes.  hell, even NASA has made mistakes


 

[WarriorDad]

Very smart post. When any of us makes a bad decision, it can be minimized by a full, immediate apology. I think that is what is missing in cases like Brown's. We didn't need the Police Dept's apology. We needed one from the officers involved. If these officers had gone to Buck's practice the next day and fully apologized, this thread would not even exist.

I think you need to apologize, too. 

[brewcity77]

yo doc, thank God we don't see all the mis-steps by all the dentists being plastered on page one, EYN'a?

Regarding this, every public servant should know this. On day one of my fire academy, the instructors told us "yesterday, if you got a DUI, no one cared. Today, the front page newspaper headline will say 'Milwaukee firefighter arrested.'" That just comes with the occupation.

[WarriorDad]

Jockey/Brand X,


Don't really want to continue any further, but you have very right to vent about law enforcement, racism, and the likes, but maybe you can discontinue the F*ck the Cops and Pigs comments.  There is no humor in that.

I'm glad you and others like you are out there.  No profession is short of a few bad apples.  Police, fire, politicians, ditch diggers, morticians, dentists, basketball coaches, teachers, lawyers, HR, marketing, programmers and everyone in between. 

I wouldn't want your job in today's world with social media if you paid me $500K a year.  It isn't worth it.  Things can be misconstrued so easily.  Thank you for your service to your community.

[rocket surgeon]

I think you need to apologize, too.

dittos to that, but judging from his responses, i don't think he gets it.  he is one tough dude to bring down, without throwing punches of course

[Jockey]

I think you need to apologize, too.

For what? I did not attack the police. I attacked a handful of thugs who wanted to hassle a man for the crime of being black. I would think that every decent person would be upset when this happens.

You don't like my language? I understand that. I meant to be harsh. But don't lie that I hate police just so you can make me your whipping boy.

[4everwarriors]

You are one miserable SOB. How can you tolerate living in your skin?

[Pakuni]

I think you need to apologize, too.

Calling for apologies?
100 percent Chico's confirmation.

[real chili 83]

For what? I did not attack the police. I attacked a handful of thugs who wanted to hassle a man for the crime of being black. I would think that every decent person would be upset when this happens.

You don't like my language? I understand that. I meant to be harsh. But don't lie that I hate police just so you can make me your whipping boy.

I found your comments offensive.

[Jockey]

I found your comments offensive.

I can't argue with that. They were.

Just as "thoughts and Prayers" won't stop school shootings, saying that police "over-reacted" will not stop the abuses like the one that Brown faced.

[WarriorDad]

Calling for apologies?
100 percent Chico's confirmation.

Jockey said an immediate and full apology was required.  I guess that makes him a 100% chicos.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56297.msg1025686#msg1025686

I agree with Jockey, they (the MKE police department) should have and for the same reason Jockey should apologize for his offensive remarks.

[real chili 83]

Jockey said an immediate and full apology was required.  I guess that makes him a 100% chicos.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56297.msg1025686#msg1025686

I agree with Jockey, they (the MKE police department) should have and for the same reason Jockey should apologize for his offensive remarks.

Ok, Jamie

[real chili 83]

I can't argue with that. They were.

Just as "thoughts and Prayers" won't stop school shootings, saying that police "over-reacted" will not stop the abuses like the one that Brown faced.

Your broad brush is as bad as all other broad brushes   

[mu_hilltopper]

 ..But whenever we read a story about a teacher sexually abusing a child or a lawyer swindling clients, no one rushes out to say that "the vast majority of lawyer-client interactions are positive" or "99 percent of teachers aren't pedophiles." That goes without saying. Cops don't get extra credit for having positive interactions with the people they serve. That's the baseline expectation, right?

This all depends on what profession is getting painted with a broad brush.  Few want to throw all teachers under the bus because 1 of 10000 of them will have a sexual relationship with a minor student .. so yeah, you're correct, no one needs to rush out and say "99% of teachers aren't pedophiles."  -- But when an incident goes sideways for a cop, indeed, their whole profession is eagerly protested by chunks of the population.

Mix law enforcement, bad actors, constant physical and verbal evasion, the need for snap decisions, not to mention a gun culture together, and no one should be under the delusion that 100% of all interactions will have perfect outcomes.   Train and strive for it, yes.  Realize it's a toxic stew with an error rate that indeed creates a need to defend those who enforce the law when the inevitable occurs.

So, yes, I do give extra credit for good policing interactions, especially in this age as disrespect for law enforcement trends upwards.

[rocket surgeon]

I can't argue with that. They were.

Just as "thoughts and Prayers" won't stop school shootings, saying that police "over-reacted" will not stop the abuses like the one that Brown faced.

"thoughts and prayers" aren't really meant to stop anything.  they're meant to let people know that they are thinking of them, praying for them to help them cope.  whether or not they mean it or not is a different subject and not really for anyone else to decide but for that person. 

  most reasonable people who admit to making offensive comments don't double down.  if you ever call the  police and they knew your feelings about them...they would still help you...think about that one

[tower912]

And?  You treat people who hate dentists all of the time.

[WarriorDad]

Ok, Jamie

I cannot wait to tell my wife and kids my new name.  Ha ha