MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: cheebs09 on July 03, 2013, 04:42:00 PM
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This is shocking. Big hit to the Big East.
http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/press_release/070313-celtics-hire-brad-stevens-head-coach (http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/press_release/070313-celtics-hire-brad-stevens-head-coach)
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Wow.
Don't think that will end well for anybody, except Stevens' investment portfolio.
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Buzz to Butler.
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Crap.
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Takes a lot to shock me, wow.
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This sucks for the NBE.
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Poop
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That's really awful.
Vinny del negro to butler?
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I can hear the sigh of relief all the way from Bloomington.
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Stunned.
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I can hear the sigh of relief all the way from Bloomington.
::) yet another prediction that was destined for the dump heap of predictions
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::) yet another prediction that was destined for the dump heap of predictions
Actually, this may make Stevens to IU more, not less, likely.
College coaches rarely last more than 2-3 years in the NBA, just about the time IU might be in the market for a new coach if Crean keeps getting stuck in the Sweet 16.
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::) yet another prediction that was destined for the dump heap of predictions
I never predicted it, though any IU alum who knows basketball and people would have much preferred him to TC. Obviously Brad had his sights set considerably higher than Bloomington.
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Actually, this may make Stevens to IU more, not less, likely.
College coaches rarely last more than 2-3 years in the NBA, just about the time IU might be in the market for a new coach if Crean keeps getting stuck in the Sweet 16.
Same exact thing I thought.
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I am Wow also, where did that come from.
Usually these hires have some media leaks, but this was like in a vault.
Stevens is in for a long year or years. No Garnett, Pierce and maybe even Rondo. It will be a re-building couple of seasons for him and Boston is a pressure town. Best of luck to him.
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I am Wow also, where did that come from.
Usually these hires have some media leaks, but this was like in a vault.
Stevens is in for a long year or years. No Garnett, Pierce and maybe even Rondo. It will be a re-building couple of seasons for him and Boston is a pressure town. Best of luck to him.
No doubt Rondo will be a complete joy to work with in a rebuilding situation.
Seriously, if Rondo had issues with Doc Rivers, does anyone believe he'll give an ounce of respect to Boy Wonder?
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Strange. Seemed like the kind of guy who chose quality of life and stability above upgrading programs...coaching pro athletes in Boston could not be more different than coaching college kids in Indianapolis. Guy's got ambition though, can't fault him for that (or for the serious bread he's about to earn). Sucks for the BE in any event.
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No doubt Rondo will be a complete joy to work with in a rebuilding situation.
Seriously, if Rondo had issues with Doc Rivers, does anyone believe he'll give an ounce of respect to Boy Wonder?
Yeah, I have to think if (and maybe more likely "when") that issue arises that they will deal Rondo.
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Yeah, I have to think if (and maybe more likely "when") that issue arises that they will deal Rondo.
Tank for Wiggins?! We all know the NBA lottery will just so happen to select Boston if in that position.
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"It's the Celtics, it's the Celtics". A whole lot of people were planning around his presence when the current configuration of the Big East was set up. Bit of uncertainty that the league doesn't nee.
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"It's the Celtics, it's the Celtics". A whole lot of people were planning around his presence when the current configuration of the Big East was set up. Bit of uncertainty that the league doesn't nee.
Well the league better have been prepared for this outcome eventually. Sucks it's not even after a year or two.
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Crazy. Bad bad bad for NBE.
I hope Butler does the same thing MU did when Crean bolted: hire a coach who can continue the success Stevens had.
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Actually, this may make Stevens to IU more, not less, likely.
College coaches rarely last more than 2-3 years in the NBA, just about the time IU might be in the market for a new coach if Crean keeps getting stuck in the Sweet 16.
Crean is solid at IU. They love him.
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"It's the Celtics, it's the Celtics". A whole lot of people were planning around his presence when the current configuration of the Big East was set up. Bit of uncertainty that the league doesn't nee.
While this certainly doesn't help Butler, they've been through this (Collier, Matta, Lickliter) and managed to stay relevant. If anything, they're way better off now than they were when those guys left because of the new conference affiliation.
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No doubt Rondo will be a complete joy to work with in a rebuilding situation.
Seriously, if Rondo had issues with Doc Rivers, does anyone believe he'll give an ounce of respect to Boy Wonder?
Rondo will most likely be gone.
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Go get Ben Howland Butler.
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Good for Stevens. They have a tough rebuilding job in Boston, recruiting wasn't going too well at Butler recently (this according to their own fans)...if he fails, he will get a high level job back in college. Basically no risk for him in doing this. If Butler failed in the Big East where he would have had to coach against high caliber talent every year (Butler did so-so in the A-10...4th or 5th if I recall and dominated the horrendous Horizon), it would be tougher for him to get to a better gig down the road.
So from a timing perspective, makes all the sense in the world. Zero downside as failure in the NBA with a rebuilding NBA team will not tarnish him one iota, plus the money is rumored to be 4X what he is making now. TOTAL. NO. BRAINER.
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Good for Stevens, bad for Big East, terrible for Butler. This is a big blow. I wish I would not have gone to this site before going out tonight. Ugh.
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Well the league better have been prepared for this outcome eventually. Sucks it's not even after a year or two.
well, it's a good thing that there wasn't a commissioner to prepare for marketing Brad Stevens. See, chit works out.
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Crean is solid at IU. They love him.
They can appreciate last year's historic performance.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323936404578577752033384718.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323936404578577752033384718.html)
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This is all Doc's fault
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It's pretty clear he was unable to recover from last year's NCAA loss, foresaw a future of Warrior beatdowns in his NBE future and fled the conference. What a hairy wet cat!
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Nooooooooooooooooo. Very happy for Stevens. Very sad for Butler. I was so much looking forward to locking horns with Coach Stevens twice each year.
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They can appreciate last year's historic performance.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323936404578577752033384718.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323936404578577752033384718.html)
The same performance that UNC and Duke had in previous years. Ben Cohen and I had a very nice chat about his article. He has said he may adjust some things based on "excellent points" provided. Really, a pretty cool cat that was actually interested in hearing intelligently argued opinions.
Last year's performance got them their first Big Ten outright title in 20+ years....that means something to many folks.
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Rondo will most likely be gone.
Rookie coaches don't win power struggles with 27-year-old all-stars.
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A person on one of Butler's message boards summed it up well...
"7/1 - Butler's big day.
7/3 - Butler's worst day"
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Nevermind that the track record for college coaches being successful in the NBA is poor at best (Larry Brown being the exception), this move reminds me of the head-scratcher when Mike Montgomery left Stanford for Golden State. Since Golden State fired him, he hasn't been nearly as good with Cal as he was at Stanford.
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Nevermind that the track record for college coaches being successful in the NBA is poor at best (Larry Brown being the exception), this move reminds me of the head-scratcher when Mike Montgomery left Stanford for Golden State. Since Golden State fired him, he hasn't been nearly as good with Cal as he was at Stanford.
That's the beauty of it. If he fails in Boston, it doesn't harm him one bit to get back into college coaching, yet he makes 4X what he does now for the next few years.
Plus, he doesn't take the potential hit of not being able to coach (rather recruit) in a major conference in the new Big East, one of the big complaints of Butler fans the last year or so). Best of both worlds for him.
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I think Stevens personally would of had a hard time leaving Butler for another college job. Going to the pros solves that problem. He is either successful there or comes back to college at a high major school. This could end up badly for MU. I do not know much about Chew's plans, but it is possible he would want the Butler job. The other possibility I would worry about is Barnes reading the writing on the wall at Texas going to Butler. I do think Howland would be a good hire for Butler and that would also be good for MU.
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Good for Stevens, bad for Big East, terrible for Butler. This is a big blow. I wish I would not have gone to this site before going out tonight. Ugh.
Big +1! Was just about to head out the door. Wow!
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That's the beauty of it. If he fails in Boston, it doesn't harm him one bit to get back into college coaching, yet he makes 4X what he does now for the next few years.
Plus, he doesn't take the potential hit of not being able to coach (rather recruit) in a major conference in the new Big East, one of the big complaints of Butler fans the last year or so). Best of both worlds for him.
There was talk not all that long ago of Stevens succeeding Coach K when he decided to retire. If he sucks with the Celtics, ala Pitino, maybe he can still land at Duke.
That being said, this is about the worst news that could've happened to the Big East.
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Hearing that there is some chance of a BU press conference yet tonight. Don't know anything else. I sincerely hope Butler lands a quality coach because their success helps all of us in the BEast.
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Crazy. Bad bad bad for NBE.
I hope Butler does the same thing MU did when Crean bolted: hire a coach who can continue the success Stevens had.
Butler has had many great coached before Stevens and won before Stevens. It's about the "Bulter Way"
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Butler has had many great coached before Stevens and won before Stevens. It's about the "Bulter Way"
'Butler Way'. Concur. Would be shocked if they went out and hired a Kevin O'Neill as an extreme example.
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Dan Wetzel, one of my favorite writers.
"Sophisticated X and O and little interest in recruiting muck, Brad Stevens was natural for NBA jump"
That about captures it for me. It's hard to simply X & O your way to the top in a conference with athletes. You can do that in the Horizon, you can do it in the A-10 to some extent, much harder the higher up you go in a year long grind. Certainly you can do it short term, but tough over many months. The GM now gets to put the pieces in place for him as a coach and he can just go coach.
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That's the beauty of it. If he fails in Boston, it doesn't harm him one bit to get back into college coaching, yet he makes 4X what he does now for the next few years.
Plus, he doesn't take the potential hit of not being able to coach (rather recruit) in a major conference in the new Big East, one of the big complaints of Butler fans the last year or so). Best of both worlds for him.
Is it ironic that you aren't at all looking at possible repercussions for your alma mater and the conference they are in?
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Is it ironic that you aren't at all looking at possible repercussions for your alma mater and the conference they are in?
I happen to think MU will be just fine and believe Butler is about the 5th or 6th best program in the new Big East (to prove that, most other programs would survive just fine with their head coach leaving but with Stevens leaving folks are jumping off the ledge). Sorry, but it ain't all that in my opinion. Too many chicken littles here that think if Buzz leaves the world ends, if Stevens leaves the Big East is doomed, etc, etc. Ye of little faith in Buzz and the Big East.
You and others can think there are major repercussions with this, I'll take another point of view. MU will be fine. Villanova will be fine, as will ST. John's, Creighton, Xavier, et al. I'd love to have Butler be good and Stevens around, but he isn't so time to move on. It would not surprise me at all to see Butler land a decent coach, it's not as if they were in the wilderness until 5 years ago, they've had some good teams in the past.
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Rookie coaches don't win power struggles with 27-year-old all-stars.
You should at least have some knowledge of a situation before you post. It has nothing to do with Stevens but rather them rebuilding and wanting picks for Rondo and allowing them to tank.
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The same performance that UNC and Duke had in previous years. Ben Cohen and I had a very nice chat about his article. He has said he may adjust some things based on "excellent points" provided. Really, a pretty cool cat that was actually interested in hearing intelligently argued opinions.
Last year's performance got them their first Big Ten outright title in 20+ years....that means something to many folks.
Totally agree that the conference title was meaningful.
But it depends on the level of achievement you anticipate. In the context of the article, where achievement was defined in terms of NCAA tournament performance, your point is neither excellent nor relevant.
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The same performance that UNC and Duke had in previous years. Ben Cohen and I had a very nice chat about his article. He has said he may adjust some things based on "excellent points" provided. Really, a pretty cool cat that was actually interested in hearing intelligently argued opinions.
Last year's performance got them their first Big Ten outright title in 20+ years....that means something to many folks.
You may be right that he enjoyed your conversation, however I have a feeling he went out for a drink with friends later and you were the butt of his joke.
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They can appreciate last year's historic performance.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323936404578577752033384718.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323936404578577752033384718.html)
Well, at least they made the list. All Blue Bloods.
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The same performance that UNC and Duke had in previous years. Ben Cohen and I had a very nice chat about his article. He has said he may adjust some things based on "excellent points" provided. Really, a pretty cool cat that was actually interested in hearing intelligently argued opinions.
Last year's performance got them their first Big Ten outright title in 20+ years....that means something to many folks.
Who the hell is Ben Cohen?
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Who the hell is Ben Cohen?
A future attendee at the next Backyard Beer Summit I am sure.
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Who the hell is Ben Cohen?
Sandy Cohen's brother from a different mother?
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Who the hell is Ben Cohen?
http://www.amazon.com/Ben-Cohen/e/B000APL6UI
https://mobile.twitter.com/bzcohen
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You may be right that he enjoyed your conversation, however I have a feeling he went out for a drink with friends later and you were the butt of his joke.
Doubtful, he's hit me up today with three different emails. Enjoying the conversations....turns out we know a lot of the same people in the industry. To each their own.
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If anything, they're way better off now than they were when those guys left because of the new conference affiliation.
Yeah, becuase the new Big East is just full of recruiting & coaching pushovers. With far less competion than Stevens faced in the Horizon when he was hired, I'm sure they'll be back at the top of the league in no time. ::)
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Actually, this may make Stevens to IU more, not less, likely.
College coaches rarely last more than 2-3 years in the NBA, just about the time IU might be in the market for a new coach if Crean keeps getting stuck in the Sweet 16.
Crean is likely at IUIU until the Red Chinese army rotates.
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Crean is likely at IUIU until the Red Chinese army rotates.
There are similarities now that you mention it...
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhnaINRrr9aB6S0G4FPZJxUkZbKS2prfa0VMsKyp7V4F8LQOt_)
(http://cdn2.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/9491997/163475430.0_standard_352.0.jpg)
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"It's the Celtics, it's the Celtics". A whole lot of people were planning around his presence when the current configuration of the Big East was set up. Bit of uncertainty that the league doesn't nee.
If the process of picking schools was based on the presence of a college coach, then this league is screwed from the start. I hope the 7 presidents wanted Butler regardless of who would be coaching them.
That being said, I agree that Butler and the Big East are screwed anyway. Who are they gonna get in July?
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Cop doesn't know what to make of the psycho who's foamin' at the mouth.
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http://www.amazon.com/Ben-Cohen/e/B000APL6UI
https://mobile.twitter.com/bzcohen
Got it. Guy looks 13.
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Yeah, becuase the new Big East is just full of recruiting & coaching pushovers. With far less competion than Stevens faced in the Horizon when he was hired, I'm sure they'll be back at the top of the league in no time. ::)
You really think Brad Stevens worries about coaching against pushovers? At freakin Butler (yeah, little old Butler) the guy won more NCAA tournament games in TWO seasons than you know who has won in FOURTEEN years at much more storied Marquette and top 6 blue blood Indiana. When Stevens takes the dice at the crap table, bet with the shooter.
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While this certainly doesn't help Butler, they've been through this (Collier, Matta, Lickliter) and managed to stay relevant. If anything, they're way better off now than they were when those guys left because of the new conference affiliation.
This.
He's just a coach. Very replaceable. Butler has done a great job hiring in the past and they need to do so again.
Heck, if Stevens was getting sick of recruiting, as others have suggested, it's good this happened now instead of later.
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Cop doesn't know what to make of the psycho who's foamin' at the mouth.
Guy looks positively demonic.
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I don't know if all the hand-wringing is justified here.
Sure, the exposure for the league in years 1 and 2 would have been better with Stevens in it, and some of his recruits will probably transfer, but Butler will attract another young up-and-comer. Worst case scenario: the upward trend of Butler basketball reverses for the next few years. However, I severely doubt this is something they don't recover from. Butler was chosen for our league because they think about basketball like we do -- the right way. If/when Buzz leaves Marquette (which will happen at some point; cursory internet research has turned up an interesting statistic: no D1 college basketball coach as ever lived forever), I am optimistic that the University will target the right kind of replacement, just as I think Butler will.
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Who are they gonna get in July?
They got Rick Majerused....the act of quitting your school in July to leave your basketball program high and dry.
Actually, they might be able to do ok, certainly better than Bob Dukiet.
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If the process of picking schools was based on the presence of a college coach, then this league is screwed from the start. I hope the 7 presidents wanted Butler regardless of who would be coaching them.
That being said, I agree that Butler and the Big East are screwed anyway. Who are they gonna get in July?
Word is it might be LaVall Jordan...Michigan assistant and Butler alum.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130703/SPORTS06/307030167/brad-stevens-butler-michigan-wolverines-basketball
Really top notch recruiter.
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Word is it might be LaVall Jordan...Michigan assistant and Butler alum.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130703/SPORTS06/307030167/brad-stevens-butler-michigan-wolverines-basketball
Really top notch recruiter.
Why not Michigan Assistant Jeff Meyer?
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Why not Michigan Assistant Jeff Meyer?
Some baggage....attached to Kelvin Sampson at IU.
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Some baggage....attached to Kelvin Sampson at IU.
Didn't Meyer find absolution and redemption through the cleansing grace of Tom Crean's venom?
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Guy looks positively demonic.
Demonic....platonic....bubonic....all kinds of fun still shots of people (http://cdn2.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/12457413/gyi0062596072.0_standard_352.0.jpg)
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Yeah, becuase the new Big East is just full of recruiting & coaching pushovers. With far less competion than Stevens faced in the Horizon when he was hired, I'm sure they'll be back at the top of the league in no time. ::)
Yeah, with a much greater national profile, millions upon millions of additional revenues, guaranteed national television exposure, a couple of Final Four banners hanging from the rafters, $34 million in athletic facilities renovations in the works and a significantly better conference affiliation .... Butler is far worse off than when Collier and Matta bailed in successive seasons.
But I see we're back to your idiotic stance that programs are better off in weaker conferences. How many more times must you be proven wrong on that one?
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Demonic....platonic....bubonic....all kinds of fun still shots of people (http://cdn2.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/12457413/gyi0062596072.0_standard_352.0.jpg)
(http://oi45.tinypic.com/2nkp7y8.jpg)
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Photoshop is definitely fun
(http://images.onesite.com/community.beliefnet.com/user/oldsoul/474853f1a1e05cavemanairforce.jpg?v=162000)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTafYOJTcvWUNukHpgeIvrb_EYELR2vaxqE_mmu6o0zxA51zLvF)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/blackwind91/1500days.jpg)
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Photoshop is definitely fun
(http://images.onesite.com/community.beliefnet.com/user/oldsoul/474853f1a1e05cavemanairforce.jpg?v=162000)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTafYOJTcvWUNukHpgeIvrb_EYELR2vaxqE_mmu6o0zxA51zLvF)
(http://hhttp://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/blackwind91/1500days.jpg)
The USAF dude is a Space Warrior, not a studly aviator type. So, yes, that might be a genuine photo.
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This is...shocking. Huge blow to the BEast. Hopefully Butler can find a new hire who can fill those shoes and keep recruits from leaving.
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This is...shocking. Huge blow to the BEast. Hopefully Butler can find a new hire who can fill those shoes and keep recruits from leaving.
I dont follow recruiting. Does Butler have a great incoming class?
To your point about Butler needing to hire somebody to keep their recruits around....How do you know those players will fit into the new coach's system? You seem to be assuming that the new coach will play the exact same system and use every player and signed recruit just as Stevens would have done... ?-(
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I know Stevens is a smart guy, but he's in for quite a surprise. This ain't college, Brad.
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Not to derail the CBB/Keefe discussion (ignore this if I am) but I'm stunned by this move. Not for Stevens, if I were him I'd hitchhike to Boston for a chance at that job, but more for the Celtics. It happened so fast, I expected a much bigger name. While Stevens has a ton of college credit, getting one of the 2 most coveted NBA jobs after coaching a collegiate mid-major (despite their success) is a monster step up.
For his sake, I hope Stevens isn't back in college. As great a coach as he is, he just doesn't seem suited for it at the elite level. I always wondered how he'd do at Duke (where everyone had him penciled in) considering he never recruited a 5-star and rarely added any 4-stars at BU. He's a great coach, but more in the coaching guys up sense than the discovering talent sense. Seems like he may have been lucky to find Hayward and got the most out of the rest of the team.
Honestly, I'm just glad it wasn't Buzz. While I feel Buzz is a much better fit for the college game than the pro game (he seems to relish the tenacity of recruiting that Stevens seems lukewarm about) that kind of money is something not many college programs, if any, can offer to a guy with that kind of resume.
Also...I wouldn't be surprised to see Butler fall off a peg. I know all that about the "Butler Way", but as it has been pointed out many times in the past, there are a ton of schools that can't survive a bad hire. If they pick the wrong guy here and they go from kings of the Horizon to whipping boys in the Big East in 3-4 seasons, it will be hard to rebound against this level of competition. If I were betting I'd say it will be LaVall Jordan, a former BU player and assistant under Lickliter. Maybe he keeps it going, but if he can't, it could be a quick, hard fall.
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The old guy speaks (LOL).
This is Butler's "Al" moment. Brad Stevens leaving is like Al McGuire leaving for us. A great coach who defined the university is gone and the question has to be, "who replaces him?"
Maybe the guy's out there but if the university isn't sure, make someone an interim for a year. Take your time, do it right and find a winner. The alternative is Bob Dukiet!
At least Al announced he was leaving in December 1976 and gave a transition time. Some good it did, I know, but we weren't faced with a "find a coach on the verge of school starting" problem.
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There are similarities now that you mention it...
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhnaINRrr9aB6S0G4FPZJxUkZbKS2prfa0VMsKyp7V4F8LQOt_)
(http://cdn2.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/9491997/163475430.0_standard_352.0.jpg)
Pretty good Keefe. Doesn't the female security cop look like a younger Janet Napolitano? Maybe that is why she heads the inept TSA.
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Demonic....platonic....bubonic....all kinds of fun still shots of people (http://cdn2.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/12457413/gyi0062596072.0_standard_352.0.jpg)
If this thread is morphing into "demonic", then the obligatory pictures of Wainright and Ryan must be posted.
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You should at least have some knowledge of a situation before you post. It has nothing to do with Stevens but rather them rebuilding and wanting picks for Rondo and allowing them to tank.
you must have more knowledge than the entire nba staff at espn as their longest discussion surrounded how rondo would take have stevens as a coach...the all figured ainge would have rondo out the door prior to the season. they all commented on how he's not an easy guy to coach...
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you must have more knowledge than the entire nba staff at espn as their longest discussion surrounded how rondo would take have stevens as a coach...the all figured ainge would have rondo out the door prior to the season. they all commented on how he's not an easy guy to coach...
Now we know why Ainge pedaled Pierce and Garnett---he did not want players older than his new Coach!
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The same performance that UNC and Duke had in previous years. Ben Cohen and I had a very nice chat about his article. He has said he may adjust some things based on "excellent points" provided. Really, a pretty cool cat that was actually interested in hearing intelligently argued opinions.
Last year's performance got them their first Big Ten outright title in 20+ years....that means something to many folks.
Hoosier fans expect more than a big ten title, especially the older ones. Just ask Tubby Smith and the kentucky fans. Living in IN its been fun discussing their tan coach with them. This year was the first year I think they realized he is not going to be the next Bob Knight.
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This is all about family security, I bet he got about 5 yr. $30 million dollar guaranteed contract, who would not take that!
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I dont follow recruiting. Does Butler have a great incoming class?
To your point about Butler needing to hire somebody to keep their recruits around....How do you know those players will fit into the new coach's system? You seem to be assuming that the new coach will play the exact same system and use every player and signed recruit just as Stevens would have done... ?-(
No. That's one of the rubs against Stevens (by Butler fans), doesn't like recruiting and has been so-so in that department. You can get away with that in the Horizon and probably the A-10 over the longhaul. Hard to do that night in and night out as you step up in level of competition.
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Hoosier fans expect more than a big ten title, especially the older ones. Just ask Tubby Smith and the kentucky fans. Living in IN its been fun discussing their tan coach with them. This year was the first year I think they realized he is not going to be the next Bob Knight.
Eventually, yes. But in year 5 after what he inherited and the fact it's been 20 years since they last won one outright, plus throw in this was the best Big Ten league in decades, most IU fans are quite pleased. Expectations will obviously change, just like they do for anyone. Buzz now is expected to take the NEXT step, to the Final Four...hell even that idiot TC accomplished that at MU. How many years does he get to do that?
This game can be played forever.
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Pretty good Keefe. Doesn't the female security cop look like a younger Janet Napolitano? Maybe that is why she heads the inept TSA.
Is that cop a woman?
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Is that cop a woman?
maybe the question should be: Is Janet Napolitano a woman? Thank you. I will be here all week.
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Brad Stevens = Sacrificial Lamb.
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Eventually, yes. But in year 5 after what he inherited and the fact it's been 20 years since they last won one outright, plus throw in this was the best Big Ten league in decades, most IU fans are quite pleased. Expectations will obviously change, just like they do for anyone. Buzz now is expected to take the NEXT step, to the Final Four...hell even that idiot TC accomplished that at MU. How many years does he get to do that?
This game can be played forever.
You're right we can play this forever but I will say that this isn't year 1 anymore. He just had 2 top 4 lottery picks and with that talent the expectations are already higher than what they typically are at a blue blood program. This isn't the level of talent he inherited from year 1. Hes been getting good talent. Just ask Matt daughterty or billy Gillespie when you fall short at a blue blood school when you have the talent but just can't coach.
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Brad Stevens = Sacrificial Lamb.
I like Brad Stevens. But I fear he has made a poor career decision. This will not end well for him.
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I like Brad Stevens. But I fear he has made a poor career decision. This will not end well for him.
Well, he won't be hurting for money. But, the NBA ghosts of Pitino and Montgomery are lurking in Boston now. Can always go back to the college game. For the Celtics, it does not matter who is coaching the next couple years. So, it's an easy gamble on their part that Stevens might work out in the long run. The only real loser could well be Butler. Time will tell.
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Well, he won't be hurting for money. But, the NBA ghosts of Pitino and Montgomery are lurking in Boston now. Can always go back to the college game. For the Celtics, it does not matter who is coaching the next couple years. So, it's an easy gamble on their part that Stevens might work out in the long run. The only real loser could well be Butler. Time will tell.
The NBA is an unforgiving world. He is being well compensated but those folks have short memories.
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The NBA is an unforgiving world. He is being well compensated but those folks have short memories.
Guess we are saying the same thing.
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Guess we are saying the same thing.
We are. I think a key point is that it's the Celtics. Frankly, if you have a hair on your a$$ you say yes. There are a few calls that cannot go unanswered and the Boston Celtics is one of them. Stevens told UCLA no thank you just a few months ago but this was a very different proposition.
But pro sports is a beast because the stakes are so absurdly high. If the Cowboys can fire Tom Landry and Jimmy Johnson then all bets are off. Stevens is in for a rough few years but if he is successful, which he may very well be, the sky is the limit. At some point though the fates will stop smiling.
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I like Brad Stevens. But I fear he has made a poor career decision. This will not end well for him.
How can 30 million, if true, not end well?
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or 32 million even.....
How can 30 million, if true, not end well?
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How can 30 million, if true, not end well?
The $6 Million threshold is considered multi-generational wealth so anything beyond that is really monopoly money; this is more than a financial proposition. If you are a baseball man and the Yankees call you say yes. But you need to go into it with your eyes wide open. Casey Stengel won 10 pennants in 12 years, including 7 Rings, and still got fired after losing to the Pirates in Game 7. Stevens should hold no illusions that this will be anything similar to his environment at Butler.
I am told that Ainge is a very difficult person to work with and that Doc was not completely happy in Boston. I am guessing that Stevens was given wide latitude to run the business at Butler his way. It will not be the same at Boston. I wish him well but prefer he would have remained at Butler.
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The $6 Million threshold is considered multi-generational wealth so anything beyond that is really monopoly money; this is more than a financial proposition. If you are a baseball man and the Yankees call you say yes. But you need to go into it with your eyes wide open. Casey Stengel won 10 pennants in 12 years, including 7 Rings, and still got fired after losing to the Pirates in Game 7. Stevens should hold no illusions that this will be anything similar to his environment at Butler.
I am told that Ainge is a very difficult person to work with and that Doc was not completely happy in Boston. I am guessing that Stevens was given wide latitude to run the business at Butler his way. It will not be the same at Boston. I wish him well but prefer he would have remained at Butler.
Perfect timing for him. He leaves the college game before he can get "tainted". Let's remember, the last few years has meant a CBI berth, a 3rd place Horizon League finish followed by a tied for 3rd place A-10 finish, and now a step up to the bigs with not the greatest talent coming in. He doesn't like recruiting, everyone expects him to fail at Boston so if he does, he just does what everyone expects and cashes in nicely. In a few years, if he does fail, some school will hire him and he hires some top notch recruiters to do the work he doesn't like.
It's a no brainer for him. Life changing money, no downside at all, protects him from potentially struggling at the college level and who knows, he might just do well in the pros.
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I like Brad Stevens. But I fear he has made a poor career decision. This will not end well for him.
I'd take that bet and then some. Within 5 year he's either still in the NBA or coaching for millions at a top 20 NCAA program. I fail to see that as a poor career decision. And just for the effort, he gets $22million.
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I'd take that bet and then some. Within 5 year he's either still in the NBA or coaching for millions at a top 20 NCAA program. I fail to see that as a poor career decision. And just for the effort, he gets $22million.
Chicos, I agree with you. (Wow, that felt really unnatural). :)
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This is a brilliant move by Danny Ainge and the Celtics.
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I'd take that bet and then some. Within 5 year he's either still in the NBA or coaching for millions at a top 20 NCAA program. I fail to see that as a poor career decision. And just for the effort, he gets $22million.
Don't get me wrong - Stevens will do just fine professionally. But I think his stint in Boston will not be a highlight when he looks back. Two words: Rick Pitino.
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Don't get me wrong - Stevens will do just fine professionally. But I think his stint in Boston will not be a highlight when he looks back. Two words: Rick Pitino.
He came out just fine.
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This whole dialogue is weird. Heres the main points so far.
* The BE will suffer
* Stevens is turning into a lousy coach cause he can't recruit and will be outed in the BE.
* The Celtics paid a bagillion dollars to BS
* Everyone on the planet knows BS will fail horribly at Boston
* BS will land on his feet in college BBall cause everyone new he would fail in boston
* Boston execs are the only people on the planet who don't know BS will fail despite paying him a bagillion dollars.
Help me Mr. Wizard
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He came out just fine.
Precisely my point. But his stint in Boston was a low point in an otherwise charmed career.
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Don't get me wrong - Stevens will do just fine professionally. But I think his stint in Boston will not be a highlight when he looks back. Two words: Rick Pitino.
Pitino also used coaching in the NBA as a selling point to recruits when he returned to the college game.
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Pitino also used coaching in the NBA as a selling point to recruits when he returned to the college game.
If he does I'll bet he talks a lot more about taking the Knicks to the playoffs than falling on his sword in Beantown.
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If he does I'll bet he talks a lot more about taking the Knicks to the playoffs than falling on his sword in Beantown.
Don't understand your point. His NBA experience helped make Rick who he is. I think his years in the NBA helped his legacy more than hurt it because people respect him more as a college coach and struggled with egos at the pro level. I think people wouldn't have respected him as much without the NBA opportunity.
Do you think he would have a better rep now if he wasn't ever a NBA coach?
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Expectations for BS will be low. The C's job is to get bad so they can get good. BS may only be there for the bad part, but it sort of reminds me of what my father used to say: "People keep letting money affect their decision making."
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Perfect timing for him. He leaves the college game before he can get "tainted". Let's remember, the last few years has meant a CBI berth, a 3rd place Horizon League finish followed by a tied for 3rd place A-10 finish, and now a step up to the bigs with not the greatest talent coming in. He doesn't like recruiting, everyone expects him to fail at Boston so if he does, he just does what everyone expects and cashes in nicely. In a few years, if he does fail, some school will hire him and he hires some top notch recruiters to do the work he doesn't like.
It's a no brainer for him. Life changing money, no downside at all, protects him from potentially struggling at the college level and who knows, he might just do well in the pros.
Everyone is expecting him to fail at Boston? Give some names. Actually, I'm not expecting him to fail so there goes that theory.
The Celtics are in "blow-up and rebuild" mode. Is having a bad record during a rebuilding mode considered failing in your book? Stevens is a young guy who related well to his players and is an outstanding X and O guy. He's going to be taking over a young team who will, theoretically, be coachable. You think a grizzled vet like KG was going to listen to a baby-faced coach telling him what to do? I don't. Established NBA stars don't spend a lot of time being coached. Young players are more likely to listen and buy in.
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Here's a question that hasn't been brought up/discussed yet, if Stevens had indicated he was leaving Butler at the end of their season (yes I know they were already announced to be in the Big East before our game with them) would Butler still have received an invitation to join the Big East? I'm curious what everyone thinks.
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Yes, no different than MU bein' invited to the Big East years ago, with or without Crean. No coach is bigger than the school or program.
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Butler did not get invited because of Stevens. They get the invite either way. However, this makes it a bit more risky, but that is why the "committed to high level basketball" as an institution was a major priority for the BE invites. Look at Creighton.
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Don't get me wrong - Stevens will do just fine professionally. But I think his stint in Boston will not be a highlight when he looks back. Two words: Rick Pitino.
I fail to see the logic, Rick Pitino just won a national title and is in the Hall of Fame. How did the Boston stint hurt him? If anything, he was able to tell recruits I know what it takes to get you into the NBA because I know what the NBA demands. Stevens can now add that to his resume. I see zero downside here for Stevens.
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Yes, no different than MU bein' invited to the Big East years ago, with or without Crean. No coach is bigger than the school or program.
99% agree with this.
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I fail to see the logic, Rick Pitino just won a national title and is in the Hall of Fame. How did the Boston stint hurt him? If anything, he was able to tell recruits I know what it takes to get you into the NBA because I know what the NBA demands. Stevens can now add that to his resume. I see zero downside here for Stevens.
The only thing you could argue is that if Pitino stayed at Kentucky, he might be on his fourth or fifth national championship.
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Butler did not get invited because of Stevens. They get the invite either way. However, this makes it a bit more risky, but that is why the "committed to high level basketball" as an institution was a major priority for the BE invites. Look at Creighton.
I not sure that is true. Many people feel that it was MU's 2003 final four appearance that got us into Big East. Without two final fours, Butler would still be in the Horizon. My guess is that, if Stevens had left two years ago, the league right now would be 10 Catholic Schools.
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The only thing you could argue is that if Pitino stayed at Kentucky, he might be on his fourth or fifth national championship.
Perhaps, or maybe he got out of dodge before the posse arrived. ;) Besides, the Italian restaurants in Lexington don't offer "services" like Boston or Louisville.
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I not sure that is true. Many people feel that it was MU's 2003 final four appearance that got us into Big East. Without two final fours, Butler would still be in the Horizon. My guess is that, if Stevens had left two years ago, the league right now would be 10 Catholic Schools.
Timing in life is everything. Incidentally, one need to just look at the former Big East commissioner's comments about Marquette, TC and the Final Four to determine how big of a deal it was to get us into the Big East. It was VERY BIG deal.
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This whole dialogue is weird. Heres the main points so far.
* The BE will suffer
* Stevens is turning into a lousy coach cause he can't recruit and will be outed in the BE.
* The Celtics paid a bagillion dollars to BS
* Everyone on the planet knows BS will fail horribly at Boston
* BS will land on his feet in college BBall cause everyone new he would fail in boston
* Boston execs are the only people on the planet who don't know BS will fail despite paying him a bagillion dollars.
Help me Mr. Wizard
I'll take a stab at this. I don't think it is that they are expecting him to fail, just that it wouldn't surprise anyone if he did and they wouldn't hold it against him.
The BS hire came out of left field for Boston. They are in complete rebuild mode. That is the perfect time to take a chance on a high-risk high-reward candidate. If things go well they have a young Popovich. If things go poorly it facilitates their getting the number 1 overall pick....win/win.
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Don't understand your point. His NBA experience helped make Rick who he is. I think his years in the NBA helped his legacy more than hurt it because people respect him more as a college coach and struggled with egos at the pro level. I think people wouldn't have respected him as much without the NBA opportunity.
Do you think he would have a better rep now if he wasn't ever a NBA coach?
Not buying that Slick Rick has that great a rep. Yeah, he is a good coach, but his little dalliance at Porcini's doesn't help. Wonder if he learned that move while in the NBA?
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Rather than goin' one on one in the NBA, I think the 3 on 1 or 4 on 1 is the preferred method to attack the hole.
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Not buying that Slick Rick has that great a rep. Yeah, he is a good coach, but his little dalliance at Porcini's doesn't help. Wonder if he learned that move while in the NBA?
I meant as a coach and recruiter. That's like saying Jordan doesn't have a great reputation because he was a gambler and an adulterer. Unfortunately, 99% of fans. media, and college basketball people couldn't care less about the incident. The only reason this board cares is because we were rivals and it was an easy target.
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Rather than goin' one on one in the NBA, I think the 3 on 1 or 4 on 1 is the preferred method to attack the hole.
Well, don't forget to give credit to some of the great penetrators in NBA history. Looks like Calvin Murphy, "The Pocket Rocket," set the pace for scoring but Seattle's own "Reign Man" might actually have showered his love on more adoring fans if the rumors of his prowess are to be believed.
http://www.complex.com/sports/2012/06/big-poppa-the-athletes-with-the-most-children-by-the-most-women/calvin-murphy
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Mike DeCourcy's take...thinks Stevens made a great move.
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-07-05/brad-stevens-nba-career-college-basketball-rick-pitino-john-calipari-celtics (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-07-05/brad-stevens-nba-career-college-basketball-rick-pitino-john-calipari-celtics)
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Mike DeCourcy's take...thinks Stevens made a great move.
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-07-05/brad-stevens-nba-career-college-basketball-rick-pitino-john-calipari-celtics (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-07-05/brad-stevens-nba-career-college-basketball-rick-pitino-john-calipari-celtics)
bingo
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bingo
The other factor that plays in here is that Stevens leaves Butler without "stiffing" the Bulldogs by leaving for another school. If the NBA does not pan out for him ( which is very possible/likely ), he can get that other high-high major college job without leaving Butler feeling bad. In the meantime, all the Celtics $$$$$$$$$$ will leave Brad and his family in financial heaven. So, he could be successful in the NBA or go back to the NCAA ala Pitino and not "stiff" Butler ( though they surely are very apprehensive about his departure ). Not bad for a 36 year old guy.
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The other factor that plays in here is that Stevens leaves Butler without "stiffing" the Bulldogs by leaving for another school. If the NBA does not pan out for him ( which is very possible/likely ), he can get that other high-high major college job without leaving Butler feeling bad. In the meantime, all the Celtics $$$$$$$$$$ will leave Brad and his family in financial heaven. So, he could be successful in the NBA or go back to the NCAA ala Pitino and not "stiff" Butler ( though they surely are very apprehensive about his departure ). Not bad for a 36 year old guy.
The three coaches previous to Stevens, including the current athletic director, all "stiffed" Butler for other schools. (Collier to Nebraska...Matta to Xavier...Licklighter to Iowa.) I'm sure they are above "feeling bad" about such moves.
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Not buying that Slick Rick has that great a rep. Yeah, he is a good coach, but his little dalliance at Porcini's doesn't help. Wonder if he learned that move while in the NBA?
You don't think Pitino has a great reputation? You're nuts.
You may not like him, but recruits do...former players do...media does...other coaches seem to...
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The three coaches previous to Stevens, including the current athletic director, all "stiffed" Butler for other schools. (Collier to Nebraska...Matta to Xavier...Licklighter to Iowa.) I'm sure they are above "feeling bad" about such moves.
Not what I said. Its about Stevens not feeling guilty about leaving. If things go sour for him in the NBA (which they probably will), he can get that marquee college job without directly leaving Butler for that job.
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Not what I said. Its about Stevens not feeling guilty about leaving. If things go sour for him in the NBA (which they probably will), he can get that marquee college job without directly leaving Butler for that job.
Actually that is pretty much exactly what you sad:
"The other factor that plays in here is that Stevens leaves Butler without "stiffing" the Bulldogs by leaving for another school. If the NBA does not pan out for him ( which is very possible/likely ), he can get that other high-high major college job without leaving Butler feeling bad."
Nowhere do I see anything from Steven's point of view, including any guilt that he might have.
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Actually that is pretty much exactly what you sad:
"The other factor that plays in here is that Stevens leaves Butler without "stiffing" the Bulldogs by leaving for another school. If the NBA does not pan out for him ( which is very possible/likely ), he can get that other high-high major college job without leaving Butler feeling bad."
Nowhere do I see anything from Steven's point of view, including any guilt that he might have.
Actually I said both. But, what I was trying to say (poorly) is that the Boston job gave Stevens an easy (and very lucrative ) way out of Butler without any "guilt" or qualms on either side.
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The other potential ripple effect from this is the solidification of VCU as the Big East's next addition. Arguably one of the best qualities of the BEast is the talented young coaches. Williams, Stevens, Wright, JT3, Mack, Lavin and to a less extent McDermott and Cooley are some of the biggest up and comers. They could easily be the next age of Pitinos, Boeheims, and Coach Ks. Stevens was arguably the biggest of those names. The BEast would be wise to replace Stevens with another dominant young coach....Enter Shaka Smart.
VCU and one other (c'mon Zags!) will be in the BEast next season
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The other potential ripple effect from this is the solidification of VCU as the Big East's next addition. Arguably one of the best qualities of the BEast is the talented young coaches. Williams, Stevens, Wright, JT3, Mack, Lavin and to a less extent McDermott and Cooley are some of the biggest up and comers. They could easily be the next age of Pitinos, Boeheims, and Coach Ks. Stevens was arguably the biggest of those names. The BEast would be wise to replace Stevens with another dominant young coach....Enter Shaka Smart.
VCU and one other (c'mon Zags!) will be in the BEast next season
unlikely on Zags
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unlikely on Zags
Again with the hate...
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Here's an article from the Fort Wayne paper (reprinted in SB Trib) on how the move to the BE will be good for recruiting for Butler. Lots of quotes from Stevens. Note the date of the article, July 3rd.
http://www.southbendtribune.com/sports/college/basketball/article_c193a82c-e3c2-11e2-96be-001a4bcf6878.html
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Again with the hate...
No hate....distance reality.
Honestly, I would be surprised on VCU as well, though much less so.
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For those outside the Indy area, this is a good read in the INDYSTAR today about Butler and Brad Stevens.
http://www.indystar.com/section/exclusive07 (http://www.indystar.com/section/exclusive07)
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For those outside the Indy area, this is a good read in the INDYSTAR today about Butler and Brad Stevens.
http://www.indystar.com/section/exclusive07 (http://www.indystar.com/section/exclusive07)
Some grade A shark chum right there.
An excellen read to boot.
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Some grade A shark chum right there.
An excellen read to boot.
Kinda like Crean on April Fools Day.
Stunned. Disbelief. Haziness and doubt about the program immediately afterward.
Glad Roosevelt wan't getting a tattoo of his coach.
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Kinda like Crean on April Fools Day.
Stunned. Disbelief. Haziness and doubt about the program immediately afterward.
Glad Roosevelt wan't getting a tattoo of his coach.
Unlike Crean, Stevens respected his employer, colleagues, and players enough to extend the dignity of personally communicating the news. Fr. Wild is still waiting for Crean to meet with him, much less pick up the phone.
Meanwhile, Crean has the nerve to attack Jeff Meyer publicly for imagined slights. Perhaps The Bronzed Beast should consider his own character flaws before he begins flinging turds.
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Unlike Crean, Stevens respected his employer, colleagues, and players enough to extend the dignity of personally communicating the news. Fr. Wild is still waiting for Crean to meet with him, much less pick up the phone.
Meanwhile, Crean has the nerve to attack Jeff Meyer publicly for imagined slights. Perhaps The Bronzed Beast should consider his own character flaws before he begins flinging turds.
Actually if you read what Father Wild said they talked. No one liked how it went down, including Father Wild (nor should he be happy about it), but they most certainly talked. A couple of articles in the JS that indicate it quite clearly. (....awaiting the WHY DO YOU DEFEND HIM brigade.....just providing the facts)
"We talked," Wild said. "He had given us nine great years, and there was no great basis for being upset. At some point he had to make a career decision.
"But the how of it, how he basically didn't talk to anybody, that was a problem," Wild added. "And I said that clearly. The end game was definitely not the way to do things. And I must say, it was not characteristic of the man as I dealt with him over the years."
Crean has expressed regret how word leaked out that he was leaving."
Jeff Meyer is a douche, so is TC. They deserve each other.