Looney Offer

[JD]

One of UW's NBA players just got traded for three players and a #1 draft pick.  No MU player has ever been traded for so much.

Are you really going to try and argue Madison's nba success against MU?

Troll?

[karavotsos]

I was joking.  Memphis was clearly dumping salary.  They would have traded for a pile of turds just as soon as they traded for Jon Leuer.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why don't you use NBA players in your arguement as well..

Because NBA players don't dictate success on the court in college.  They don't count for extra NCAA appearances, extra NCAA wins, extra regular season wins, extra conference titles, etc.  They are good to have, definitely something that should allow one to recruit better players, no question.

To me that's like judging a pro team on how many all-stars or pro bowlers they have.  The Patriots have what, 8 or 9 going to Hawaii, yet Baltimore is going to the Super Bowl. 

[karavotsos]

As far as the trajectory, I'm done saying UW-madison's trajectory is flat.  I hear that EVERY single year and EVERY single year they finish in the top 3 or 4 in the conference.

Use the last 5 years. 
UW-madison has more regular season wins than us 125 to 120
UW-Madison won a conference title in that time, we didn't
Worst conference finish 4th for UW-madison....tied for 9th for MU
NCAA appearances tied with 5
NCAA wins goes to UW-madison  8 vs MU's 6

The data is the data.  We've been really good, they've just been a step ahead.  I hope it changes, believe me.  I'm just not going to underestimate them because they keep pulling it off year after year after year. 

So now you leave out head-to-head.  That's cherry picking.  I can't think of a more meaningless number than regular season wins.  Also, comparing results in the Big 10 to the Big East in the last 5 years is not apples to apples.  The year we tied for 9th we tied for 9th with the team that won the NCAA championship.  The Big 10 is stronger this year than its been in years.  Its more than 3-4 deep as it has been in previous years.  We'll see how UW does.  I think the 1-4 goes away.

   

[brewcity77]

So now you leave out head-to-head.  That's cherry picking.

Everybody is cherry picking. UW has had a great decade and will probably have the same steady results as long as Bo sticks around. There's no shame for us that they've been good.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So now you leave out head-to-head.  That's cherry picking.  I can't think of a more meaningless number than regular season wins.  Also, comparing results in the Big 10 to the Big East in the last 5 years is not apples to apples.  The year we tied for 9th we tied for 9th with the team that won the NCAA championship.  The Big 10 is stronger this year than its been in years.  Its more than 3-4 deep as it has been in previous years.  We'll see how UW does.  I think the 1-4 goes away.

   

Not intentional.  What is head to head last 5 years?  2-3?  Not sure, asking.  One for MU.

Regular season wins are meaningless?  Hmm, and here I thought that was a major criteria for getting into the NCAA tournament.  Meaningless to you, not meaningless to people that know.

All kinds of criteria could be used, I just took some of the most important off the top of my head.  You could do wins against tournament teams.  Wins against ranked teams.  Etc. Both programs have done very well, unfortunately one has done a little bit better in most of those categories.  Not all, but most.  About 75% of those categories.  There are some good comparison tools on the web that can lay it all out on one page like Stat Sheet.  I wish the results were different, but they aren't.

[brewcity77]

Not intentional.  What is head to head last 5 years?  2-3?  Not sure, asking.  One for MU.

3-2

Buzz beat them with the Amigos at home. We lost the next two years, up there with the Lazar team and back here with the Jimmy Sweet 16 team. We've won the last two, last year up there when Mayo went off and this year at home. Hopefully these two years start a trend and next year we can become the first team to win 3 in a row since the Badgers won 4 from 1998-2001.

[Tugg Speedman]

Everybody is cherry picking. UW has had a great decade and will probably have the same steady results as long as Bo sticks around. There's no shame for us that they've been good.

+1 

Our success or failure is not dependent on what is happening in Madison.  So, if we are the best or second best program in the state (as Chicos likes to say over and over) is irrelevant.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

How did a thread about Looney turn into a d*ck measuring contest between MU and Madison? Looney's not going to Madison. There is a very outside chance Buzz convinces him to stay in Milwaukee with Burton, Wilson, and McKay. There is an overwhelmingly strong chance that he decides to go to Duke, UNC, or Kentucky.

[MerrittsMustache]

Not intentional.  What is head to head last 5 years?  2-3?  Not sure, asking.  One for MU.

Regular season wins are meaningless?  Hmm, and here I thought that was a major criteria for getting into the NCAA tournament.  Meaningless to you, not meaningless to people that know.

All kinds of criteria could be used, I just took some of the most important off the top of my head.  You could do wins against tournament teams.  Wins against ranked teams.  Etc. Both programs have done very well, unfortunately one has done a little bit better in most of those categories.  Not all, but most. About 75% of those categories.  There are some good comparison tools on the web that can lay it all out on one page like Stat Sheet.  I wish the results were different, but they aren't.

I'll post again since you ignored it the first time.

If you use the actual 4+ seasons that Buzz has been the head coach...

Total wins: MU 109, Wisc 108
NCAA appearances: 4 each
NCAA wins (average seed of win): Wisc 6 (8.8), MU 5 (8.0)
Avg NCAA seed: MU 6.5, Wisc 6.0
Sweet 16s: 2 each
Head to Head: MU 3, Wisc 2
Average conf finish (percentile): MU - top 32.8% (5.25/16) , Wisc - top 34% (3.75/11)
Avg Conf RPI: Big East - 2.5, Big 10 - 2.5

Hard to look at those numbers and consider either program to be "a step ahead."


EDIT: Average conference finish updated. Thanks for the heads-up, MUfan12.

[MUfan12]

"Average conf finish (percentile): MU - top 29% (5.25/18) , Wisc - top 34% (3.75/11)"

There's only 16 in the BE.

[Tugg Speedman]

How did a thread about Looney turn into a d*ck measuring contest between MU and Madison? Looney's not going to Madison. There is a very outside chance Buzz convinces him to stay in Milwaukee with Burton, Wilson, and McKay. There is an overwhelmingly strong chance that he decides to go to Duke, UNC, or Kentucky.

It's page 5 of a post.  VERY few post are on subject once they make page 3.

[The Equalizer]

  did you feel that way about Wilson when he chose to return home?

No, mainly because Wilson didn't fail to crack UNC's rotation, nor was his coach Roy Williams.  

If Tokoto wanted to transfer you jump at like we did with Wilson. We very well might be local kids second option and anyone with a lot of stars next to their name is welcome to come back home IMO. In some cases a year away from home might best thing.

I guess I see these as two very different situations.

At Oregon, Wilson played under a coach on the hotseat specificlaly becuase he gained the reputation of not developing or getting the most out of his talent.  Under that coach Wilson showed a lot of promise, cracked the starting lineup (14 of 26 games).  He didn't play late in the year not because he was deep in the rotation but likely  retaliation for wanting to transfer.  

Tokoto situation is different.  Roy Williams isn't on his way out, nor is he known for failing to use or develop talent.  Tokoto hasn't shown the same promise at UNC and hasn't shown to be quite good enough to crack the regular rotation in ACC conference play.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

+1 

Our success or failure is not dependent on what is happening in Madison.  So, if we are the best or second best program in the state (as Chicos likes to say over and over) is irrelevant.

We agree, our program's success has nothing to do with Madison.  I said that in this very thread...we've been very good.   It's typically the ridiculous comments that are thrown around how certain players would never consider UW because their program is inferior to ours where one wonders what cave they have lived in the last 15 years to make such a statement.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'll post again since you ignored it the first time.

If you use the actual 4+ seasons that Buzz has been the head coach...

Total wins: MU 109, Wisc 108
NCAA appearances: 4 each
NCAA wins (average seed of win): Wisc 6 (8.8), MU 5 (8.0)
Avg NCAA seed: MU 6.5, Wisc 6.0
Sweet 16s: 2 each
Head to Head: MU 3, Wisc 2
Average conf finish (percentile): MU - top 32.8% (5.25/16) , Wisc - top 34% (3.75/11)
Avg Conf RPI: Big East - 2.5, Big 10 - 2.5

Hard to look at those numbers and consider either program to be "a step ahead."


EDIT: Average conference finish updated. Thanks for the heads-up, MUfan12.

Fair enough, but note I said there were many other categories. I also used completed seasons, but that's fine if you want to bring in a half season.  Doesn't make my statement incorrect based on the data I used, which was the completed seasons going 5, 10, 15 year increments.  If you want to go 4.47 increments  , that's fine. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Fair enough, but note I said there were many other categories. I also used completed seasons, but that's fine if you want to bring in a half season.  Doesn't make my statement incorrect based on the data I used, which was the completed seasons going 5, 10, 15 year increments.  If you want to go 4.47 increments  , that's fine.  

I'm not saying it's the be all, end all especially if you want to throw in quality wins, SOS, etc. I'm just pointing out it's not as one-sided as you led on. Also, I was using the time since Buzz became head coach. That seemed like a logical, relevant place to start as opposed to just an arbitrary amount of time (5, 10, 15 years, etc).

[Lennys Tap]

Fair enough, but note I said there were many other categories. I also used completed seasons, but that's fine if you want to bring in a half season.  Doesn't make my statement incorrect based on the data I used, which was the completed seasons going 5, 10, 15 year increments.  If you want to go 4.47 increments  , that's fine. 

I think his point was to compare apples to apples. Buzz has 4.47 apples in his MU basket to compare to the most recent 4.47 apples of the Bo Ryan/UW era. It's pretty much a dead heat, but I like the way we're trending - 18-2 over the last year+ in the Big East. It will be challenging to maintain our momentum through the Big East breakup but if we can keep Buzz I'm optimistic.

[Tugg Speedman]

We agree, our program's success has nothing to do with Madison.  I said that in this very thread...we've been very good.   It's typically the ridiculous comments that are thrown around how certain players would never consider UW because their program is inferior to ours where one wonders what cave they have lived in the last 15 years to make such a statement.

I'm sure you can produce some posts that claim UW is inferior so some players would not, or should not, consider Madison.  What I recall (without doing a search) is that Madison plays are very different style of play than MU and certain players would not fit well with that system. 

This is true and it works both ways.

[JD]

Didn't ESPN have an article a couple months ago ranking the best basketball colleges going back 50 years i believe?

I think MU cracked the top 20, and the Badgers weren't even on the list.

[MerrittsMustache]

Didn't ESPN have an article a couple months ago ranking the best basketball colleges going back 50 years i believe?

I think MU cracked the top 20, and the Badgers weren't even on the list.

Wisconsin didn't have basketball until the mid-90s.

[JD]

Just saw this "ALL STAR" lineup on ESPN's web page today...

Wisconsin's All-Bo Ryan team

Starters

PG: Jordan Taylor -- Averaged 18.1 points and 4.7 assists as a junior in 2010-11
SG: Devin Harris -- 2nd team All-American in 2003-04; No. 5 overall pick in NBA draft
SF: Alando Tucker -- First-team All-American and Big Ten Player of the Year in 2006-07
PF: Jon Leuer -- Efficient post player averaged 18.3 points, 7.2 rebounds in 2010-11
C: Mike Wilkinson -- Became the second Badger to record 1,500 points and 800 boards


Yeah, maybe MU isn't as bad as UW.

[Pakuni]

Wisconsin didn't have basketball until the mid-90s.

How could they? That's when they invented the sport.

[MerrittsMustache]

How could they? That's when they invented the sport.

I believe that was just a couple years after the student body wrote the song "Jump Around."

[mu-rara]

Just saw this "ALL STAR" lineup on ESPN's web page today...
Wisconsin's All-Bo Ryan team
Starters

PG: Jordan Taylor -- Averaged 18.1 points and 4.7 assists as a junior in 2010-11
SG: Devin Harris -- 2nd team All-American in 2003-04; No. 5 overall pick in NBA draft
SF: Alando Tucker -- First-team All-American and Big Ten Player of the Year in 2006-07
PF: Jon Leuer -- Efficient post player averaged 18.3 points, 7.2 rebounds in 2010-11
C: Mike Wilkinson -- Became the second Badger to record 1,500 points and 800 boards

Yeah, maybe MU isn't as bad as UW.

Only player I want at MU, comparing against players of same era, is Wilkinson.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Just checked in... what does all this have to do with Looney????