MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on September 26, 2015, 06:03:54 PM
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See the highlighted parts
Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Athletics
By DAN BARRY
SEPT. 10, 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/sports/ncaafootball/notre-dame-president-stands-firm-amid-shifts-in-college-athletics.html
(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/09/11/sports/11NOTREDAMEweb1/11NOTREDAMEweb1-master675.jpg)
University of Notre Dame president Rev. John I. Jenkins doesn't want college football to become a semiprofessional sports league.
SOUTH BEND, Ind. — Now is a good time to take a reflective walk with the president of the University of Notre Dame, through the woods behind his office in a golden-domed building, beside two lakes named after saints. A good time, and a serene setting, to ponder a sacred matter of profound moral implications: college athletics.
With the advent of another football season, the accusations of student-athlete exploitation continue to unnerve higher education — the growing demand that student-athletes share in the revenue they generate; the calls for N.C.A.A. reform; the push for unionization; academic fraud, sexual assaults, seamy cover-ups. It’s that 1932 Marx Brothers movie about college football, “Horse Feathers,” only without the laughs.
Nowhere are these questions of morality and justice more pressing than at this academic powerhouse with a football emphasis — or this football powerhouse with an academic emphasis. Notre Dame’s Catholic foundation informs everything here, down to the likeness of Jesus looming over home games, arms raised as if signaling a touchdown, or encouraging the faithful to do the wave.
(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/09/10/sports/11NOTREDAME2/11NOTREDAME2-articleLarge.jpg)
A Catholic foundation informs everything at Notre Dame, down to the likeness of Jesus looming over home games, arms raised as if signaling a touchdown.
Its president, the Rev. John I. Jenkins, 61, walking at the moment with head bowed in thought, may not be much of a football man; he is more Aquinas scholar than Rockne acolyte. But he can read the field. He sees the changes coming.
He knows that some detest Notre Dame’s storied football program, down to the constant use of “storied.” He also knows that for all its emphasis on nourishing the soul and improving the mind, Notre Dame is sometimes dismissed as just another exploitative enterprise — an Ohio State in priestly garb — reaping considerable revenue from the toil of football players who see none of the money.
Father Jenkins, a passionate defender of his alma mater, has considered the arguments. He agrees that the N.C.A.A. is struggling to find its role on a changed playing field. And, in what may come as a surprise, he suggests that student-athletes should be able to monetize their fame, with limits.
But he adamantly opposes a model in which college sheds what is left of its amateur ways for a semiprofessional structure — one in which universities pay their athletes. “Our relationship to these young people is to educate them, to help them grow,” he says. “Not to be their agent for financial gain.”
And if that somehow comes to pass, he says, Notre Dame will leave the profitable industrial complex that is elite college football, boosters be damned, and explore the creation of a conference with like-minded universities.
That’s right: Notre Dame would take its 23.9-karat-gold-flecked football helmets and play elsewhere.
“Perhaps institutions will make decisions about where they want to go — a semipro model or a different, more educational model — and I welcome that,” Father Jenkins says. “I wouldn’t consider that a bad outcome, and I think there would be schools that would do that.”
Pundits scoffed when Jack Swarbrick, the university’s athletic director, voiced similar sentiments this year. No way would Notre Dame — practically French for college football — set aside its national ambitions and settle for Saturday matchups against, say, Carnegie Mellon.
Think of it, they reasoned. Television and sports-apparel contracts would dry up, alumni generosity would decline, and the best athletes would go elsewhere. Notre Dame would no longer be ... Notre Dame.
(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/09/10/sports/11NOTREDAME3/11NOTREDAME3-articleLarge.jpg)
From left, Notre Dame’s athletic director, Jack Swarbrick; the Atlantic Coast Conference commissioner, John Swofford; and Notre Dame’s president, the Rev. John I. Jenkins.
The scholar-president disagrees. Notre Dame will remain Notre Dame no matter what, he says, fully aware that he is on the record.
Leader and Football Fan
The manicured Notre Dame campus provides ample evidence of the university’s rich tradition and considerable self-regard. A Knute Rockne statue outside the stadium. Items that include Notre Dame perfume (“The Lady Irish fragrance embodies the grace, pride and elegance of the Notre Dame woman while capturing her vivacious spirit and confidence”) in the bookstore. A drink at the Morris Inn called the Father Hesburgh Manhattan.
Embodying its more serious side is this slightly built graduate walking along a wooded path: John Jenkins of Omaha, class of ’76 and of ’78, with degrees in philosophy, as well as a doctorate from Oxford University. Ordained a Holy Cross priest here in 1983, he has filled several roles over the years, including professor, administrator and, for the last decade, president.
His intellectual strong suit might be more Summa Theologica — in which St. Thomas Aquinas presented five arguments for the existence of God — than the zone-blitz defense. But Father Jenkins describes himself as a football fan, one who finds worth even in defeat (“Losses teach more than victories,” he says) — the kind of fan, then, who drives rabid boosters to distraction.
Alums in Fighting Irish plumage will complain to him about the football team, as if, in addition to overseeing a university with 11,700 students and an endowment worth nearly $10 billion, he serves as offensive coordinator. “You sort of let it blow off a little bit,” he says, “and say, ‘There’s another game next week, next season. ...’ ”
Father Jenkins is also more than conversant in the big business that is college athletics, including the many legal challenges to the N.C.A.A. model as a strictly amateur endeavor. An amateur endeavor for the athletes, that is: Notre Dame’s football coach, Brian Kelly, collects a seven-figure salary, while the university benefits from a national television contract, ticket sales, and an exceptionally valuable apparel deal with Under Armour.
The president rejects the notion that Notre Dame is morally obliged to share its football revenue with those playing the game. “I don’t think there’s a compulsion or some demand of justice that we do it,” he says.
His position — his North Star, he calls it — may be dismissed by some as trite, even convenient, but here it is: Notre Dame is an educational institution, and athletics, while diverting and instructive in its own right, is meant to serve the educational purpose.
(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/09/10/sports/11NOTREDAME4/11NOTREDAME4-articleLarge.jpg)
A Knute Rockne statue outside the stadium, part of the manicured Notre Dame campus.
The $20 million spent by the university on about 320 athletic scholarships, he says, reflects a compact — one that many reading these words might well agree to, if they were athletically gifted teenagers. Simply put:
Commit to play football — or basketball, or soccer, or lacrosse — at Notre Dame for roughly four years. This will mean long hours, demanding practices, too much travel, considerable pressure and extraordinary discipline.
In exchange, you will receive tuition, books, food, living accommodations and the offer of a stellar education, as well as a powerful, appreciative network of alumni to help you in the great world beyond campus borders. If you are injured, or benched, or cut, your scholarship remains intact.
(As for injuries with repercussions after graduation, Paul Browne, a university vice president, wrote in an email: “We’d look at any such case individually, knowing that Notre Dame prides itself in a lifelong engagement with many if not most of the alumni. I know that many alumni have used our doctors, trainers and facilities when rehabbing from injuries suffered as professional athletes, for example.”)
Father Jenkins thinks this is a fair and just deal.
“I’d say that education is more valuable than however much money we might give you,” he says. “So focus on that. We’re going to do everything we can to help you be successful in getting that education.”
In other words, do not focus on matters unrelated to your education — how, for example, your image might appear in the university’s promotional materials.
Reputation for Academics
Notre Dame is regularly at the very top of the N.C.A.A.’s rankings of student-athlete graduation rates — well north of 90 percent. But various academic scandals have, depending on one’s view, either hurt or reinforced the university’s reputation for academics above all else.
Two years ago, for example, its starting quarterback, Everett Golson, was suspended for cheating on a test; he returned last year, graduated, and is now playing for Florida State in his fifth year of eligibility. And just before the start of last season, four Notre Dame players, three of them likely starters, were dropped from the team during an inquiry into academic fraud.
While some cite cases like these as evidence of the hypocrisy in the Notre Dame narrative, the university argues the opposite: Academics come first here, no matter how damaging it might be to the football season.
Father Jenkins knows full well the analogy of universities as ivy-adorned plantations, with student-athletes as indentured servants, or slaves, and college administrators, presumably like himself, as exploitative masters.
He knows, too, of the famous 2011 takedown in The Atlantic by the respected historian Taylor Branch, who forcefully argued against the prohibition of college athletes — all adults, he points out — from seeking compensation for their highly valued services. Branch dismissed the N.C.A.A. ideals of “amateurism” and “student-athlete” as “cynical hoaxes, legalistic confections propagated by the universities so they can exploit the skills and fame of young athletes.”
“A little overheated,” Father Jenkins says, speaking in a hesitant way that suggests a constant pursuit of precision. “So the thesis is: We exploit these young people for financial gain. Let’s just think about that.”
He says the football program, the only Notre Dame sport that consistently makes money, creates about $80 million in revenue a year — out of an annual operating budget of more than $1.4 billion. That football money is cycled back into athletics to support two dozen other sports, an arrangement that he says football players take pride in. Anything left goes to financial aid for students unrelated to the athletics program.
“If the claim is, you’re using football players to help soccer players play soccer, help fencers fence, help swimmers swim — O.K., if that’s the claim,” he says. “But that doesn’t seem to be exploitation.”
He adds: “We’re very clear about what our goals are, and we’re very clear about why we do it. If anybody doesn’t want to participate, that’s fine, but that’s what we’re about.”
Still, Father Jenkins supports recent modest reforms that are designed to ward off financial hardships for student-athletes. As part of the “Power 5” collection of elite college football programs, Notre Dame has embraced the “full cost of attendance” concept, which provides students on full athletic scholarships with additional money for personal expenses and travel.
(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/09/10/sports/11NOTREDAME5/11NOTREDAME5-articleLarge.jpg)
Notre Dame playing Michigan in 2006. Father Jenkins describes himself as a football fan, one who finds worth even in defeat. (“Losses teach more than victories,” he says.)
And while Father Jenkins opposes sharing revenue with the Notre Dame quarterback, say, based on the sale of jerseys bearing his uniform number — the university would just stop selling jerseys with numbers, he says — he would support the quarterback’s selling his autograph, or retaining an agent to help him monetize his fame, as long as Notre Dame did not become a partner in the endeavor.
No doubt any move to change the athletic structure at ND would meet with loud objection but I think Holy Cross knows its mission and that...
“That seems to be where we’re going,” the president says.
The walk continues, beside St. Mary’s Lake and St. Joseph’s Lake, along a path that follows the Stations of the Cross, past the Old College, built in 1843, which evokes the earliest days of the university. The Rev. Edward Sorin, its first president, founded the university on several hundred snow-covered acres; Father Jenkins, its 17th, seeks balance on shifting grounds.
The talk turns to the recent court challenges to the N.C.A.A. structure. Last year, in the so-called O’Bannon case, a federal judge ruled that the N.C.A.A. was violating antitrust law by not paying athletes for commercial use of their names and likenesses. She also allowed for universities to create trust funds for athletes to use after their playing days, although those payments could be capped by the N.C.A.A. at $5,000.
That case, now under appeal, makes Father Jenkins uneasy. “That really does, it seems to me, move a student from student to employee,” he says. “And that, as I say, does some violence to that educational relationship.”
Then, last month, the National Labor Relations Board rejected a bid to recognize student-athletes at Northwestern University as employees of the institution, with the right to unionize and bargain collectively. An attack on the amateur model, Father Jenkins says. A close call.
Finally, there is the pending lawsuit filed against the N.C.A.A. and the Power 5 conferences by the well-known sports lawyer Jeffrey Kessler, who argues that the value of student-athletes has been illegally capped by athletic scholarships. If he prevails: an open market.
Or, as Father Jenkins puts it: “Armageddon.”
“That’s when we leave,” he says. “We will not tolerate that. Then it really does become a semipro team.”
He believes that the drama and popularity of college athletics are rooted in the fact that the student-athletes are amateurs. “If they make mistakes, you know, it’s not like they’re professionals,” he says.
But if a pay-to-play dynamic is applied to college sports, he suggests, something is lost. “If you go that semipro route, we’ll see,” he says. “But I’m just not sure that we’ll not end up just a second-tier, uninteresting pro league.”
(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/09/10/sports/11NOTREDAME6/11NOTREDAME6-articleLarge.jpg)
The Fighting Irish during the season’s first home game, against Texas.
Father Jenkins says that he could see two separate collegiate athletic associations — one following the semiprofessional model, the other dedicated to preserving what he calls “the essential educational character of college athletics.” In belonging to the latter, he says, Notre Dame would be just fine, financially and otherwise.
“If tomorrow you told me, you just can’t do what you want to do in athletics and you’re going to have to shut it down, and we would have club sports, something like that — I don’t think it would significantly impact the revenue,” Father Jenkins says. Some alumni and donors might revolt, he acknowledges. “But just in terms of a financial proposition, I don’t think it would impact the academy.”
Hmmm.
“You made the ‘Hmmm’ there,” he says, detecting the doubt prompted by recollections of, say, Alabama-Birmingham trying to shut down its football program, only to have outraged supporters swiftly revive it. Isn’t talk of such a move at Notre Dame more a theoretical exercise than a practical consideration? An existential matter only, to be debated by scholars over a couple of Father Hesburgh Manhattans?
Father Jenkins’s tone faintly suggests: Try me. “Would someone who was going to give a gift to Notre Dame for a chair in philosophy or physics not give it if we did without football?” he asks. “I don’t think so.”
Having said all this, the president says he embraces what athletics — what football — does for the Notre Dame community. “It brings people back to the university,” he says. “It gives them a visible bond. They feel, week to week, a connection to the university. And that does interest them in the academy, in education, in student life.
“That is real.”
The walk through the woods concludes, and the president of Notre Dame returns to his office under the golden dome. He has many things on his mind. A coming visit by Justice Sonia Sotomayor of the Supreme Court. A state-of-the-university speech that needs to be written. And the season’s first home football game, against Texas.
A few days later, a national television audience and 80,795 fans in sold-out Notre Dame Stadium, including Father Jenkins, would watch Notre Dame’s quarterback throw for three touchdowns in leading the Fighting Irish to a 38-3 victory over the Longhorns.
The name of the young man at quarterback is Malik Zaire, and he wears Notre Dame jersey No. 8 — available for sale in the bookstore.
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Good for them
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My f#cking hero...
Screw those guys
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Lol
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Don't let the door hit you in the a$$.
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Don't let the door hit you in the a$$.
They're a bunch of whores like everyone else. They will choose $$ over principles any time.
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Student athletes already are given great value, and in ND's case, a degree from a top 25 school in the country. The ND network will set them up for life.
I hope they stand their ground. You can kiss MU sports goodbye if they end up paying kids, along with women's opportunities, opportunities for minorities, etc.
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Student athletes already are given great value, and in ND's case, a degree from a top 25 school in the country. The ND network will set them up for life.
I hope they stand their ground. You can kiss MU sports goodbye if they end up paying kids, along with women's opportunities, opportunities for minorities, etc.
What about easing the rules to allow star players to benefit from their likeness and words? In other words, let them get paid to be pitchmen on TV or sell their image?
School doesn't pay, the free armed gives them their worth.
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What about easing the rules to allow star players to benefit from their likeness and words? In other words, let them get paid to be pitchmen on TV or sell their image?
School doesn't pay, the free armed gives them their worth.
And so a school that is huge with alumni everywhere will be paying huge dollars and defining what a STAR is.
You will have a more corrupt system than today.
Big state schools will dominate.
Besides, are people going to Alabama games because of three or four guys or because it is Alabama? Why are we singling guys out?
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I hope they stand their ground. You can kiss MU sports goodbye if they end up paying kids, along with women's opportunities, opportunities for minorities, etc.
That is false.
And ND can leave all they want. No one will care.
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That is false.
And ND can leave all they want. No one will care.
Why do you think it is false?
No one will care? Oh, I'm pretty sure that is the only false statement
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Fine Notre Dame fans would care. No one else would.
And Marquette would be fine if they pay players - just depends on the amount.
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Good for them
Yeah! Good for them and the gazillion-dollar TV network they have built on the back of 20-year-olds! Good for the overlords and power brokers! Good for keeping the serfs in their subservient place!
I am stunned -- stunned, I tell you! -- that you would champion the Overdog.
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Yeah! Good for them and the gazillion-dollar TV network they have built on the back of 20-year-olds! Good for the overlords and power brokers! Good for keeping the serfs in their subservient place!
Cmon. They are allowing them to rape females from the school across town without doing too much to stop it. Why do they need to be paid?
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Across town? Across the street. Nice and convenient.
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Yeah! Good for them and the gazillion-dollar TV network they have built on the back of 20-year-olds! Good for the overlords and power brokers! Good for keeping the serfs in their subservient place!
I am stunned -- stunned, I tell you! -- that you would champion the Overdog.
The BTN and SEC network pay their members more than ND gets for its NBS deal.
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The BTN and SEC network pay their members more than ND gets for its NBS deal.
Yeah but ND is infinitely more annoying. That article sums up perfectly why. I mean, the author is basically doing a fluff piece while ND wraps itself in tradition, religion and faux intellectual superiority. Look, I understand that Notre Dame is a very good school, and I know that they have high academic standards for their athletes. But I also know that they engage in almost every practice that that Alabamas and the USCs of the world also engage in.
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Yeah but ND is infinitely more annoying. That article sums up perfectly why. I mean, the author is basically doing a fluff piece while ND wraps itself in tradition, religion and faux intellectual superiority. Look, I understand that Notre Dame is a very good school, and I know that they have high academic standards for their athletes. But I also know that they engage in almost every practice that that Alabamas and the USCs of the world also engage in.
How would you rank ND compared to similar academic institutions ... Northwestern, Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt?
Are they more or less disingenuous than those schools?
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How would you rank ND compared to similar academic institutions ... Northwestern, Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt?
Are they more or less disingenuous than those schools?
Heisenberg,we get it, you are a closet ND fan.
I grew up cutting Dr. Waldman's yard, and shoveling his driveway. Bernie Waldman is a true American hero. Google him. Dick Rosenthal is the architect of the NBC contract. A friend of my parents, and a true gentleman. That generation of leadership would be aghast with what ND has become. They've abandoned their values as a blue collar midwest catholic school for the almighty dollar.
Sultan is right, the school is no better than your run of the mill SEC cesspools. The way they handled rape accusations against their players is dispicable.
F ND.
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Heisenberg,we get it, you are a closet ND fan.
I grew up cutting Dr. Waldman's yard, and shoveling his driveway. Bernie Waldman is a true American hero. Google him. Dick Rosenthal is the architect of the NBC contract. A friend of my parents, and a true gentleman. That generation of leadership would be aghast with what ND has become. They've abandoned their values as a blue collar midwest catholic school for the almighty dollar.
Sultan is right, the school is no better than your run of the mill SEC cesspools. The way they handled rape accusations against their players is dispicable.
F ND.
Not closet, I'm a outright fan of ND Football. Went to the Texas game and had a great time.
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Not closet, I'm a outright fan of ND Football. Went to the Texas game and had a great time.
May the good lord have mercy on your soul.
The dark side has taken you. Come back to the light.
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Fine Notre Dame fans would care. No one else would.
And Marquette would be fine if they pay players - just depends on the amount.
I think if you look at the ratings, you wouldn't state that. A lot of people watch ND because they are ND. It's like the Cowboys, people watch them to win, to lose, etc. ND not in the NCAA would be a shame. This is one of the reasons they are coming out and saying this, because they carry a crapton of weight. If we want athletes U. to run the show, then have at it. Many people don't and are trying to prevent it from going full tilt because you will never get it back at that point.
Good for ND.
As for MU, if it gets into bidding war stuff then you can kiss it goodbye for MU over the longrun. More importantly, schools like Butler, Creighton, SLU, Vanderbilt, Stanford, etc, etc.....they aren't going to do it or can't afford it. Sorry, but I don't want to cheer for a school that is playing in a semi-pro nonsense while a ton of really quality schools are out because they can't afford to play the pay to play game. Talk about ruining college athletics.
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May the good lord have mercy on your soul.
The dark side has taken you. Come back to the light.
Is everyone here hate them because they rejected them?
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I think if you look at the ratings, you wouldn't state that. A lot of people watch ND because they are ND. It's like the Cowboys, people watch them to win, to lose, etc. ND not in the NCAA would be a shame. This is one of the reasons they are coming out and saying this, because they carry a crapton of weight.
+1
ND is saying this because it matters that they say it.
Sultan, you're confusing your hate for ND with Bucky. Bucky could close their athletics department tomorrow and it would not really matter. ND does matter.
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Is everyone here hate them because they rejected them?
Ha, I rejected them. Chose to be a warrior. Probably didn't hurt that I wanted to get out of town too. Yes, I said no to ND.
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Only Notre Dame fans and self loathers like Chicos think that Notre Dame matters that much. If they went away, college football and college athletics would be just fine. It's not the 1950s any longer. Sure people would wail and render their clothing, but in the end the ratings will be high and ND would be mentioned along with the likes of Yale and Harvard. Simply a nice memory from a bygone era.
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How would you rank ND compared to similar academic institutions ... Northwestern, Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt?
Are they more or less disingenuous than those schools?
More. Those other schools don't claim the moral and ethical superiority that ND does. They can balance both without telling everyone how pure they are...even though they aren't.
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Ha, I rejected them. Chose to be a warrior. Probably didn't hurt that I wanted to get out of town too. Yes, I said no to ND.
Ditto! As an Irish kid in a non Irish part of the country I heard "bet you can't wait to go to ND" all the time growing up. I applied so I could say no.
That being said there is one saying that is 99.9% accurate in my 17 years post graduation experience ..."I've never met an ND grad that I can't get along with or genuinely like, but I've met thousands of ND fans that i can't stand". Yeah, there are some AHole ND grads but probably no more or less than the general population (just take 20 minutes and browse through the Politics board on Scoop and tell me you'd be proud to show that dialog to someone as representing MU alumni) but it's their fan base that's really caustic.
They're evil because of their subway fan base and the X% minority that are obnoxious. They have a bigger brand than we do, better academics, and a substantially larger endowment. I'd like to think that we'd act better than they would if the tables were turned but i don't think we have a solid footing to say we would.
Maybe I've just been lucky in my interactions with ND alum but every single one of them has had respect for Marquette alumni.
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Is everyone here hate them because they rejected them?
Why is that the go to excuse for Madison and ND fans? Never would have even considered applying to ND. But just cause you're so curious. I turned down Northwestern.
Also going back to how Vandy, NU and Stanford recruit, they are no where near as scummy as the domers. I think Northwestern has had one top 150 recruit in the past decade and we all know the state of Vandy football right now.
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Is everyone here hate them because they rejected them?
I hate them because I was raised to not like Irish American culture which is basically what ND is the epitome of. Also as a pale, first generation irish, not tall, boxer their mascot ticks me off with the amount of times I've been compared to that little imp. Plus there's the issue with my cousin's friend who killed herself after being raped by the two football players who got off clean despite texting her and implying threats during the investigation.
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Is everyone here hate them because they rejected them?
Happy to say I rejected them... and Bucky. I applied pretty much so I could at some point say this. I also applied before I saw the campus... bunch of "pseudo" old buildings in a godforsaken corn field. That did it.
If they leave the NCAA, more power to them. I like the principles the prez is standing up for. The problem is, something's gotta change. The NCAA is an antique and needs to be re-formed. The second problem is, I haven't seen a workable idea for NCAA rev2.
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ND is a fine institution and the most well-known "brand" in college sports. If they left the NCAA, the NCAA would be poorer for it.
But the NCAA wouldn't go out of business. And after the furor dies down, the NCAA would be just fine ... until its next mini-catastrophe (often caused by itself).
It's like after Coach and Diane left Cheers. Their absence was felt, especially at first, but Cheers went on just fine without them.
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ND is a fine institution and the most well-known "brand" in college sports. If they left the NCAA, the NCAA would be poorer for it.
But the NCAA wouldn't go out of business. And after the furor dies down, the NCAA would be just fine ... until its next mini-catastrophe (often caused by itself).
It's like after Coach and Diane left Cheers. Their absence was felt, especially at first, but Cheers went on just fine without them.
Now *that* is one solid analogy.
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ND is a fine institution and the most well-known "brand" in college sports. If they left the NCAA, the NCAA would be poorer for it.
But the NCAA wouldn't go out of business. And after the furor dies down, the NCAA would be just fine ... until its next mini-catastrophe (often caused by itself).
It's like after Coach and Diane left Cheers. Their absence was felt, especially at first, but Cheers went on just fine without them.
You're forgetting ... who follows them? Maybe most schools will follow ND because they don't want to pay players either and ND has the moral authority to lead this charge for the rest of them.
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Is everyone here hate them because they rejected them?
Ew. Who would apply?
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More. Those other schools don't claim the moral and ethical superiority that ND does. They can balance both without telling everyone how pure they are...even though they aren't.
This is it. The long and short of it.
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Accepted at ND and Michigan. Chose MU.
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This is all bluster and nothing else.
It's not just the tens of millions of $$$ that they would lose by giving up football - but the effect on donors as well.
The good news is that once ND gives in and does what they said they wouldn't do, we can make fun of them again 8-)
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You're forgetting ... who follows them? Maybe most schools will follow ND because they don't want to pay players either and ND has the moral authority to lead this charge for the rest of them.
That certainly might be a consideration if ND leaves and the floodgates open.
However, can you imagine ND and, say, three dozen other institutions leaving the NCAA over this but the others staying behind.
You're a football recruit. You're going to choose between three SEC schools -- all of which are in a superior conference and all of which are offering "pay" -- and ND and maybe another school that isn't offering money.
Hmmm. Talk about a recruiting advantage.
If ND leaves over this, it would make things real interesting, that's for sure.
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You're forgetting ... who follows them? Maybe most schools will follow ND because they don't want to pay players either and ND has the moral authority to lead this charge for the rest of them.
ND has nothing of the sort. Good lord.
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Yeesh, this is starting to hit Ners levels supporting Dawson.
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Heisentroll has bought their crap hook, line and sinker.
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ND has nothing of the sort. Good lord.
I think Heisendomer was trying to bait us with that comment. Surely, even he isn't that naïve.
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I think Heisendomer was trying to bait us with that comment. Surely, even he isn't that naïve.
Sorry boys but ND is been the thought leader in college football since they invented the forward pass a 100 years ago.
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Sorry boys but ND is been the thought leader in college football since they invented the forward pass a 100 years ago.
The SEC and their media deals beg to differ.
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The SEC and their media deals beg to differ.
They are not thought leaders, they are just good teams that become irrelevant the second they hit .500. ND does not.
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They are not thought leaders, they are just good teams that become irrelevant the second they hit .500. ND does not.
Ners hacked his account.
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They are not thought leaders, they are just good teams that become irrelevant the second they hit .500. ND does not.
On a 'per team' basis you are 100% correct. The ND brand and subway fan base is never going away.
However, my comment was more about where the power in today's college sports lies....in revenue and media exposure. The SEC has done a brilliant job of capitalizing on the dedication of the fan bases to their specific team and the concept that the "South" in SEC is a rallying point in media deals.
When Missouri entered the SEC I immediately saw SEC flags flying and co-branded Mizzou/SEC shirts. I have yet to see an ND/ACC co-branded shirt. So while one specific team will loose the spot light the other fan bases vehemently support those that grab it.
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Wouldn't a capitalist seek to make all the money they can over their image and likeness? It seems that the NCAA is a rather communist organization
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Wouldn't a capitalist seek to make all the money they can over their image and likeness? It seems that the NCAA is a rather communist organization
Yes!
In his new book, Kentucky coach John Calipari likens the NCAA to the dying Soviet Union and admonishes college sports' governing body for not changing with the times, according to a report.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10760355/kentucky-wildcats-coach-john-calipari-likens-ncaa-dying-soviet-union-new-book
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Sorry boys but ND is been the thought leader in college football since they invented the forward pass a 100 years ago.
I like the way ND thought they had enough championships and decided not to win any more the last 27 years.
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I like the way ND thought they had enough championships and decided not to win any more the last 27 years.
It was extremely nice of them to let Bama have it so easily a couple years back.
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Only Notre Dame fans and self loathers like Chicos think that Notre Dame matters that much. If they went away, college football and college athletics would be just fine. It's not the 1950s any longer. Sure people would wail and render their clothing, but in the end the ratings will be high and ND would be mentioned along with the likes of Yale and Harvard. Simply a nice memory from a bygone era.
LOL
In 2012, the team that appeared in the top 15 TV ratings the most often...Notre Dame. Four times
2011, Notre Dame
2013...4th most
2014...3rd most
You can deny the data all you wish, they're still a major draw. There is a reason they were part of the BCS for years without a conference affiliation. They are the most coveted football independent in the universe.
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ND is a fine institution and the most well-known "brand" in college sports. If they left the NCAA, the NCAA would be poorer for it.
But the NCAA wouldn't go out of business. And after the furor dies down, the NCAA would be just fine ... until its next mini-catastrophe (often caused by itself).
It's like after Coach and Diane left Cheers. Their absence was felt, especially at first, but Cheers went on just fine without them.
Agree with this. Of course no one said it would destroy the NCAA, but I disagree they would be just fine either. You would have a separation of associations or a new divisional structure within.
Look, it isn't going to happen, but I'm happy to see Notre Dame fighting this fight. They should and many other schools, some of the best schools in this nation, will do as well. Meanwhile, the meddling middle tier schools like Florida State, Kentucky, etc...they will push ahead.
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Wouldn't a capitalist seek to make all the money they can over their image and likeness? It seems that the NCAA is a rather communist organization
More like socialist....I'm all for it in sports and have said so often. Works very well when talent is so limited and you WANT competitive balance in the form of talent.
Not the case in business where you want innovation, investment, etc.
I have zero problem admitting this and have for decades. It's the reason the NFL is what the NFL is today. A little place like Green Bay, or Pittsburgh, or Tampa can succeed every bit as New York or Chicago (no pun intended).
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I like the way ND thought they had enough championships and decided not to win any more the last 27 years.
They did play for one a few years ago and they draw eyeballs to TV sets, and butts in seats.
They also aren't pulling the same mouth breathers that some schools are, and yes that makes a difference. They've had their share of f'ups, but they still have to turn away many more kids than a USC or SEC school does.
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I like the way ND thought they had enough championships and decided not to win any more the last 27 years.
Same for the LA Dodgers, then?
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LOL
In 2012, the team that appeared in the top 15 TV ratings the most often...Notre Dame. Four times
2011, Notre Dame
2013...4th most
2014...3rd most
You can deny the data all you wish, they're still a major draw. There is a reason they were part of the BCS for years without a conference affiliation. They are the most coveted football independent in the universe.
None of this refutes what I said.
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They did play for one a few years ago and they draw eyeballs to TV sets, and butts in seats.
They also aren't pulling the same mouth breathers that some schools are, and yes that makes a difference. They've had their share of f'ups, but they still have to turn away many more kids than a USC or SEC school does.
I'd be wary calling what they did "play[ing] for one" it's was more like bending over to a vastly superior football program.
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Same for the LA Dodgers, then?
Sure, although nobody has called the Dodgers "MLB's thought leaders."
Even if Tommy did claim God wears Dodger blue.
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If they disbanded the team today, no one would care other than ND fans.
They're just another "name" now. Nothing special. "Names" come and go all the time and are soon forgotten.
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If they disbanded the team today, no one would care other than ND fans.
They're just another "name" now. Nothing special. "Names" come and go all the time and are soon forgotten.
I'd disagree. Because of that "name" and history, I think more than a few casual college football fans would care if they disbanded today.
But for a school that handled rape allegations and the death of a student videographer so poorly, the notion of having any sort of "moral authority" is laughable. The only school of thought they've led for the last 15 years has been "How to Leverage Your Brand and History Into an Undeserved Bowl Bid", as their 0-4 BCS record (in which they were outscored 158-57) would suggest.
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I'd disagree. Because of that "name" and history, I think more than a few casual college football fans would care if they disbanded today.
But for a school that handled rape allegations and the death of a student videographer so poorly, the notion of having any sort of "moral authority" is laughable. The only school of thought they've led for the last 15 years has been "How to Leverage Your Brand and History Into an Undeserved Bowl Bid", as their 0-4 BCS record (in which they were outscored 158-57) would suggest.
I'd care because I'd loose the chance to root for my favorite team -- which is whatever team is playing Notre Dame. This week, my favorite team is Clemson. Go Tigers!
That "Yankees factor" or "Duke factor" shouldn't be understated. The Touchdown Jesus Domers probably are hated -- exactly for the perceived moral superiority you discuss -- at least as much as they are loved.
Of course, both the Yankees and Duke have won something in the last quarter-century. Ha!
And while I don't think brand is right that ND is just another "name," I do agree somewhat with his basic point: Notre Dame doesn't have the cache they did when they were contending for titles every year, producing Heisman winners and being coached by icons.
In the greater overall college football landscape, they became borderline irrelevant there for quite some time before this recent upswing.
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I'd care because I'd loose the chance to root for my favorite team -- which is whatever team is playing Notre Dame. This week, my favorite team is Clemson. Go Tigers!
That "Yankees factor" or "Duke factor" shouldn't be understated. The Touchdown Jesus Domers probably are hated -- exactly for the perceived moral superiority you discuss -- at least as much as they are loved.
Of course, both the Yankees and Duke have won something in the last quarter-century. Ha!
And while I don't think brand is right that ND is just another "name," I do agree somewhat with his basic point: Notre Dame doesn't have the cache they did when they were contending for titles every year, producing Heisman winners and being coached by icons.
In the greater overall college football landscape, they became borderline irrelevant there for quite some time before this recent upswing.
The team that plays ND is only 3rd on my list.
The opponents of Ohio State and Michigan are #1 and #2.
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The team that plays ND is only 3rd on my list.
The opponents of Ohio State and Michigan are #1 and #2.
boy, you just don't like anyone do you
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I'd care because I'd loose the chance to root for my favorite team -- which is whatever team is playing Notre Dame. This week, my favorite team is Clemson. Go Tigers!
That "Yankees factor" or "Duke factor" shouldn't be understated. The Touchdown Jesus Domers probably are hated -- exactly for the perceived moral superiority you discuss -- at least as much as they are loved.
Of course, both the Yankees and Duke have won something in the last quarter-century. Ha!
And while I don't think brand is right that ND is just another "name," I do agree somewhat with his basic point: Notre Dame doesn't have the cache they did when they were contending for titles every year, producing Heisman winners and being coached by icons.
In the greater overall college football landscape, they became borderline irrelevant there for quite some time before this recent upswing.
I'll be in SC at the the CU/ND game - tickets hard to come by
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+1
ND is saying this because it matters that they say it.
Sultan, you're confusing your hate for ND with Bucky. Bucky could close their athletics department tomorrow and it would not really matter. ND does matter.
I fully realize that Bucky could close up shop tomorrow and it wouldn't matter. ND fans are too delusional to think that they are in the same boat. Really, most people would simply change the channel to watch another game.
And to be honest, the fact that Chicos and you are arguing the point, makes me even more positive that I am right about this.
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I fully realize that Bucky could close up shop tomorrow and it wouldn't matter. ND fans are too delusional to think that they are in the same boat. Really, most people would simply change the channel to watch another game.
And to be honest, the fact that Chicos and you are arguing the point, makes me even more positive that I am right about this.
+1000
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I fully realize that Bucky could close up shop tomorrow and it wouldn't matter. ND fans are too delusional to think that they are in the same boat. Really, most people would simply change the channel to watch another game.
And to be honest, the fact that Chicos and you are arguing the point, makes me even more positive that I am right about this.
Yes, things are a lot different from when there was The Game of The Week and nothing else, and that one game often was Notre Dame.
I think there were 40 games on last Saturday. And while ND might have had the best ratings of any of them -- I really don't know, nor do I care -- there were many options to the casual fan that didn't involve Touchdown Jesus or Rudy references.
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I'd be wary calling what they did "play[ing] for one" it's was more like bending over to a vastly superior football program.
Alabama would have done that to many teams that year.
A lot of ND hatred here and irrational thought. Must be the self loathing. LOL.
I don't follow ND, don't cheer for ND, but I'm not blind to their impact in college football circles. This idea that "no one would care" is bordering on having your man card taken away.
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I fully realize that Bucky could close up shop tomorrow and it wouldn't matter. ND fans are too delusional to think that they are in the same boat. Really, most people would simply change the channel to watch another game.
And to be honest, the fact that Chicos and you are arguing the point, makes me even more positive that I am right about this.
I just use data...ratings..CLL purchases...etc. Yours is strictly opinion, no data behind it at all. Couldn't you at least fake it and try to come up with one data point?
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Notre Dame....2nd most valuable college football program in America per Forbes.
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Just the data...thanks
So far in 2015 TV ratings
Week one ND 3rd highest rated game
Week two ND 2nd highest rated game
Week three ND 4th highest rated game
Overall, #2 thus far for the season in terms of total ratings.
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Just the data...thanks
So far in 2015 TV ratings
Week one ND 3rd highest rated game
Week two ND 2nd highest rated game
Week three ND 4th highest rated game
Overall, #2 thus far for the season in terms of total ratings.
Who's No. 1?
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Alabama would have done that to many teams that year.
A lot of ND hatred here and irrational thought. Must be the self loathing. LOL.
I don't follow ND, don't cheer for ND, but I'm not blind to their impact in college football circles. This idea that "no one would care" is bordering on having your man card taken away.
I think two or three would've at least given Bama a decent game as opposed to whatever that was.
I don't know if you're misquoting me or responding to someone else but I never said no one would care, I think plenty of people would care and I loath ND but it has nothing to do with self loathing.
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Just the data...thanks
So far in 2015 TV ratings
Week one ND 3rd highest rated game
Week two ND 2nd highest rated game
Week three ND 4th highest rated game
Overall, #2 thus far for the season in terms of total ratings.
Now for some analysis on top of that data.
ND's schedule has been so far against other top-draw teams (Texas, GT) during a season where they are ranked far better than their average spot.
Those ratings are outliers, and even so ratings do not equal influence.
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Who's No. 1?
Alabama....barely. Game against Wisconsin and Ole Miss both scored 4+ ratings. But their other two games didn't register. ND just barely behind, and likely will pass them this week.
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Now for some analysis on top of that data.
ND's schedule has been so far against other top-draw teams (Texas, GT) during a season where they are ranked far better than their average spot.
Those ratings are outliers, and even so ratings do not equal influence.
Ratings don't equal influence? Mr Allen, rating equal $$$$ and $$$$ equals influence.
For your argument to hold up, Texas games against other opponents would be highly rated. As would Ga. Tech this year. They aren't.
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I think two or three would've at least given Bama a decent game as opposed to whatever that was.
I don't know if you're misquoting me or responding to someone else but I never said no one would care, I think plenty of people would care and I loath ND but it has nothing to do with self loathing.
Responding to two others.....Brandx was quoted so I read his nonsense. Sultan...smart guy, honestly don't know why he's so wrong on this and saying such silly things, plus ignoring data. Bias' can overcome logic for some.
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I just use data...ratings..CLL purchases...etc. Yours is strictly opinion, no data behind it at all. Couldn't you at least fake it and try to come up with one data point?
Fine.
Let's take a look at week 3. (I am going to give ND the benefit of the doubt here because they had a decent opponent that week.) Here were the ratings of the 2:30 Central Time slot:
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/
Northern Illinois v. Ohio State: 5.25M viewers
Auburn v. LSU: 4.22M viewers
GT v. ND: 3.7M viewers
Nebraska v. Miami: 926k viewers
UTSA v. Ok State: 536k
Va Tech v. Purdue: 522k
W Kentucky v. Indiana: 164k
So according to this, there were 11.618M viewers watching college football during this timeframe. 31% were watching Notre Dame. ND was playing a ranked team and couldn't beat out Ohio State playing a team from the MAC.
You still fail to grasp my point. Notre Dame is valuable. Notre Dame is watched. And of course they are the most watched - they are the only school with a dedicated broadcast network. But if Notre Dame leaves the NCAA, that 31%, or 3.7M fans, aren't going to stay home watching nothing. The VAST majority are going to watch a different game.
Notre Dame's *marginal value* to college football is low. Every program's marginal value is low. USC was at the height of college football a decade ago. They slipped up, and the eyeballs went elsewhere.
I find it absolutely shocking that you actually worked in this industry and don't get this. College football is WAY bigger than any one school. ND leaves and college football fans will move on. Hell, most ND fans will simply tune in to a different game.
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Alabama....barely. Game against Wisconsin and Ole Miss both scored 4+ ratings. But their other two games didn't register. ND just barely behind, and likely will pass them this week.
But again...you...don't...get...it.
It really isn't about who is #1. It is about the percentage of the audience. And the "most watched school" has become a smaller and smaller portion of the entire college football audience over time because there are games all over the place.
What do you think is the more logical outcome if ND leaves the NCAA? The people watching those games no longer watch college football? Or they simply watch another game? I think by far it is the latter.
Hell, if the Green Bay Packers folded next week, I would still be watching the NFL. So would most Packer fans.
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Who's No. 1?
Texas
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But again...you...don't...get...it.
It really isn't about who is #1. It is about the percentage of the audience. And the "most watched school" has become a smaller and smaller portion of the entire college football audience over time because there are games all over the place.
What do you think is the more logical outcome if ND leaves the NCAA? The people watching those games no longer watch college football? Or they simply watch another game? I think by far it is the latter.
Hell, if the Green Bay Packers folded next week, I would still be watching the NFL. So would most Packer fans.
Oh I get TV ratings just fine, I've lived them for almost 20 years. Yes, the share of the audience is going down...that doesn't mean NO one cares. Let's also look at these ratings vs whatever everyone else is watching, and there is a reason why live sports is king right now and ND helps to deliver it.
I don't think your NFL analogy holds. You're talking about a league with only 30 teams. Less inventory, but high impact inventory. If the Packers folded, the ratings would go down in this country and there absolutely would be some people that flat out stop watching football. Others, wouldn't be impacted.
Nevertheless, I believe you guys are missing the point. If ND truly followed through with this there would be other programs that would follow suit. Heck, it might even be like the NFL owners holding out the players. If enough schools did it, they would make an enormous statement. ND is one of the few schools that could do something like this and provide cover for many other programs to do the same. Maybe you'll see one day where college football takes a year off, because the schools say no. Perhaps in one of those years parts of the SEC plays, parts of the Big Ten, who knows, but there would definitely be schools, and major ones at that, which would not play. There are enough academics out there would do it in a heartbeat. To use your analogy, some of those academics believe dropping sports would still lead to them taking in great perspective students to educate.
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Nevertheless, I believe you guys are missing the point. If ND truly followed through with this there would be other programs that would follow suit. Heck, it might even be like the NFL owners holding out the players. If enough schools did it, they would make an enormous statement. ND is one of the few schools that could do something like this and provide cover for many other programs to do the same. Maybe you'll see one day where college football takes a year off, because the schools say no. Perhaps in one of those years parts of the SEC plays, parts of the Big Ten, who knows, but there would definitely be schools, and major ones at that, which would not play. There are enough academics out there would do it in a heartbeat. To use your analogy, some of those academics believe dropping sports would still lead to them taking in great perspective students to educate.
I'm not missing the point because I think you are wrong. Not only would many schools *not* follow ND, I think ND itself wouldn't leave the NCAA. I think this entire thing is a bluff to (once again) make themselves look good.
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I can't believe you guys are being so shortsighted....
When ND tells you they'll leave the NCAA if they start paying players, you don't bitch about the merits of the NCAA paying/not paying players... you start writing checks immediately and show ND the door.
(my apologies if someone has touched on this, any ND thread over one page is TLDNR for me)
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EDIT: Grayson Allen beat me to it
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Fine.
Let's take a look at week 3. (I am going to give ND the benefit of the doubt here because they had a decent opponent that week.) Here were the ratings of the 2:30 Central Time slot:
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/
Northern Illinois v. Ohio State: 5.25M viewers
Auburn v. LSU: 4.22M viewers
GT v. ND: 3.7M viewers
Nebraska v. Miami: 926k viewers
UTSA v. Ok State: 536k
Va Tech v. Purdue: 522k
W Kentucky v. Indiana: 164k
So according to this, there were 11.618M viewers watching college football during this timeframe. 31% were watching Notre Dame. ND was playing a ranked team and couldn't beat out Ohio State playing a team from the MAC.
You still fail to grasp my point. Notre Dame is valuable. Notre Dame is watched. And of course they are the most watched - they are the only school with a dedicated broadcast network. But if Notre Dame leaves the NCAA, that 31%, or 3.7M fans, aren't going to stay home watching nothing. The VAST majority are going to watch a different game.
Notre Dame's *marginal value* to college football is low. Every program's marginal value is low. USC was at the height of college football a decade ago. They slipped up, and the eyeballs went elsewhere.
I find it absolutely shocking that you actually worked in this industry and don't get this. College football is WAY bigger than any one school. ND leaves and college football fans will move on. Hell, most ND fans will simply tune in to a different game.
These are great points, and I especially like the part I bolded. It's not ND or nothing. It's common sense.
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Fine.
Let's take a look at week 3. (I am going to give ND the benefit of the doubt here because they had a decent opponent that week.) Here were the ratings of the 2:30 Central Time slot:
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/
Northern Illinois v. Ohio State: 5.25M viewers
Auburn v. LSU: 4.22M viewers
GT v. ND: 3.7M viewers
Nebraska v. Miami: 926k viewers
UTSA v. Ok State: 536k
Va Tech v. Purdue: 522k
W Kentucky v. Indiana: 164k
So according to this, there were 11.618M viewers watching college football during this timeframe. 31% were watching Notre Dame. ND was playing a ranked team and couldn't beat out Ohio State playing a team from the MAC.
You still fail to grasp my point. Notre Dame is valuable. Notre Dame is watched. And of course they are the most watched - they are the only school with a dedicated broadcast network. But if Notre Dame leaves the NCAA, that 31%, or 3.7M fans, aren't going to stay home watching nothing. The VAST majority are going to watch a different game.
Notre Dame's *marginal value* to college football is low. Every program's marginal value is low. USC was at the height of college football a decade ago. They slipped up, and the eyeballs went elsewhere.
I find it absolutely shocking that you actually worked in this industry and don't get this. College football is WAY bigger than any one school. ND leaves and college football fans will move on. Hell, most ND fans will simply tune in to a different game.
Sir, well-put and kudos to you.
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Way to go my favorite team (this week): Clemson Tigers!
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How could God's team, and the world's moral and thought leader lose???!!!???
It must be the end of the world.
Somewhere, Lou Holtz is drooling on himself.....again.
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Guess I'll use this thread to comment on college football. Northwestern's defense is legit. Keefe, 6 pack bet next week vs your fightin Harbaughs?
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This week's version of My Favorite Team won: Stanford!
It saved us all from listening to the Domers spend the next week whining about their ranking and begging for a spot in the playoff.
And somehow, without Notre Dame, the playoffs will draw big ratings and crown a champion.
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This week's version of My Favorite Team won: Stanford!
It saved us all from listening to the Domers spend the next week whining about their ranking and begging for a spot in the playoff.
And somehow, without Notre Dame, the playoffs will draw big ratings and crown a champion.
All true, but Notre Dame drew a ton of viewership on their own all year long. Will finish in the top 5 again, despite what some were saying in this thread. They command a lot of eyeballs and are a major player in college football.
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All true, but Notre Dame drew a ton of viewership on their own all year long. Will finish in the top 5 again, despite what some were saying in this thread. They command a lot of eyeballs and are a major player in college football.
Already acknowledged the attractiveness of ND earlier in the thread. They have the biggest combo of lovers and haters in college football.
I am firmly in the latter category. I used to really rag on the Marquetters who hated ND in basketball but loved them in football. I only love the team playing them each week!
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And so a school that is huge with alumni everywhere will be paying huge dollars and defining what a STAR is.
You will have a more corrupt system than today.
Big state schools will dominate.
Besides, are people going to Alabama games because of three or four guys or because it is Alabama? Why are we singling guys out?
With Tax Payer dollars nonethless.
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Gotta love the smart private schools success this year. Stanford 10-2 and my Wildcats somehow were 10-2 this year. Hoping for anarchy next week for a Northwestern Peach Bowl appearance but the Outback bowl is a ok with me.
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Just saw Brian Kelly postgame. Managed to get a little crying in after the loss, talking about his lads being "only two plays from being undefeated."
I suppose that's true.
Of course, it's also true that they were a few plays away from being 6-6 if they had lost to Virginia, Georgia Tech, Temple and Boston Freakin College.
Woulda-coulda-shouldas are for loosahs!
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All true, but Notre Dame drew a ton of viewership on their own all year long. Will finish in the top 5 again, despite what some were saying in this thread. They command a lot of eyeballs and are a major player in college football.
Classic Chicos. Assert something no one disputed in order to act like some sort of sage, but completely ignore the point that people were making.
If Notre Dame leaves the NCAA, college football will be just fine. Them deciding to leave will have little impact on the overall popularity of college football.
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Oh and Notre Dame needs to join a conference to be a significant player in the College Football Playoff. As it stands now, they pretty much have to be perfect and that has proved to be difficult. Now they may not care enough about the playoff to sacrifice independence, and I would understand that decision, but as it stands it is very difficult for them to qualify.
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Classic Chicos. Assert something no one disputed in order to act like some sort of sage, but completely ignore the point that people were making.
If Notre Dame leaves the NCAA, college football will be just fine. Them deciding to leave will have little impact on the overall popularity of college football.
Actually it was said....in fact the words were
"And ND can leave all they want. No one will care."
Then the double down.... "Fine Notre Dame fans would care. No one else would."
Then the triple down.... Only Notre Dame fans and self loathers like Chicos think that Notre Dame matters that much. If they went away, college football and college athletics would be just fine.
Which were just stupid statements....if no one cared, they wouldn't be in the top 5 for viewership year after year after year after year.
By the way, those words were yours.
And no, college football and athletics would not be "just fine" as there would be other schools that followed suit because they have that kind of pull.
Classic Sultan, says something then pretends he didn't say it.....three times
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Oh and Notre Dame needs to join a conference to be a significant player in the College Football Playoff. As it stands now, they pretty much have to be perfect and that has proved to be difficult. Now they may not care enough about the playoff to sacrifice independence, and I would understand that decision, but as it stands it is very difficult for them to qualify.
No they don't. They can adjust their schedule if they wish, they don't NEED to join a conference. Plenty of ways to skin the cat. They could have gotten in this year if they won yesterday. The rest of your paragraph is correct, but it's not like they have no control over their schedule. They have more control than 99% of teams out there because they are independent.
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ND sucks.
Go Stanford!
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Actually it was said....in fact the words were
"And ND can leave all they want. No one will care."
Then the double down.... "Fine Notre Dame fans would care. No one else would."
Then the triple down.... Only Notre Dame fans and self loathers like Chicos think that Notre Dame matters that much. If they went away, college football and college athletics would be just fine.
Which were just stupid statements....if no one cared, they wouldn't be in the top 5 for viewership year after year after year after year.
By the way, those words were yours.
And no, college football and athletics would not be "just fine" as there would be other schools that followed suit because they have that kind of pull.
Classic Sultan, says something then pretends he didn't say it.....three times
Hyperbole Chicos. Look it up.
And no more than a handful other schools would follow Notre Dame - if any. They DON'T have that kind of pull.
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And you talk about levels of dishonesty....priceless.
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Why are we arguing about the possible consequences of ND leaving the NCAA?
Why don't we focus our discussion on ways we can help make this happen and deal with the consequences later?