Jerel McNeal

[ricardo_brown72]

I don't know what your analysis is based on, but where can I find these advanced stats?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Are you considering any advanced stats, efficiency etc? I haven't looked it up, but I'd be curious to see a comparison in something other than points, steals, FGs made. All of those can be very misleading.

He is certainly the most decorated player of that group, but in my subjective opinion, he was the second best player and third most important in his final season.

For the record, he was named MVP of the team his senior year, voted on by the team and coaches.  He also earned the honor his Sophomore year. 

[ricardo_brown72]

He was also the clear favorite for Big East POY the first half of the season.

[MUSF]

I don't know what your analysis is based on, but where can I find these advanced stats?

Like I said, I haven't looked up any stats, so it's not my analysis. You could be correct that Jerel is clearly the better player statistically, but there are a lot more stats out there that might paint a more complete picture than the ones you are citing.

I am a complete novice when it comes to analyzing statistics, but plenty of posters on this board could tell you where to find these stats if you are truly interested. A quick google search of advanced basketball statistics will show you sites that explain what they are.

[ricardo_brown72]

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/jerel-mcneal

[wardle2wade]

Ricardo, say hello to Jerel for all of us.  Also, his game vs Stanford remains one of the my favorite MU performances... he played out of his mind.  If that game was anywhere but SoCal, Mu likely beats Texas A&M as well to go to the Elite 8.

[ricardo_brown72]

That was definitely one for the history books. Do we know each other?

[keefe]

There is no question he should have his jersey retired.

[keefe]

Mu likely beats Texas A&M as well to go to the Elite 8.

Uh, are you forgetting who the Marquette coach was that year??

[Tugg Speedman]

Uh, are you forgetting who the Marquette coach was that year??

Thread hijacked!!!

Mods, please lock ASAP

[tower912]

Jerel was a great player, a great Warrior.   I don't know that he will ever have his number retired.   

[Dreadman24]

What I wouldn't do for a backcourt like that now...oh to dream

+1000

[CreightonWarrior]

Speaks to the lack of back court talent on the team when they came in ans freshmen. That recruiting class saved Crean's career, and I'm not even one of the regular Crean bashers.

That was the year after the Marcus Jackson spin moving point power forward debacle wasn't?

[GooooMarquette]

IMHO, Jerel contributed more to the program than Apollo 11 did....

Seriously, I think a guy who graduates as all-time leading scorer and 2nd team AA deserves it.  Not getting past the round of 32 wasn't exactly his doing.  He was injured the year we played Mich State (one of our ugliest tournament losses ever), and they were still adjusting to the loss of Dominic their senior year.  If you don't think losing another player is an excuse, ask yourself if Wade would have led us to the Final Four if Diener had been out those games against Holy Cross and Mizzou.

[MU82]

What I wouldn't do for a backcourt like that now...oh to dream

What I wouldn't do for two-thirds of a backcourt like that now.

Actually, even one-third of a backcourt like that.

[ricardo_brown72]

If they don't retire his jersey, they might as well stop retiring jerseys.

[GGGG]

So if you look at the current list of retired jerseys for actual players, it seems like you have a few no-brainers.

#3 - Wade.  Didn't complete his degree, but well deserved on the basketball court.
#14 - Meminger
#15 - Lee
#31 - Ellis
#24 - Thompson


Then you have some that are a little marginal IMO - I am certainly not saying that these players are undeserving, but that they are a step behind those above:

#20 - Lucas.  Very good player, but didn't receive many national accolades. 
#31 - Rivers.  Yeah he was an all-American, but this seems more about retiring a number based on his post-MU career.
#43 - Tatum
#44 - Kojis.  Thowback to the pre-McGuire days so it is hard to judge.

I would think that McNeal's career at MU rises to any of these final four players. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Uh, are you forgetting who the Marquette coach was that year??

Trying...not....to....engage....screw it

The same one who got us to a final four?

[Coleman]

He was also the clear favorite for Big East POY the first half of the season.

Jae Crowder WON Big East POY, and I still don't think he deserves his jersey retired.


It should be extremely difficult. There have been 4 First Team All-Americans in MU's history. Those 4 should definitely get it. Beyond that, I believe you should have to have done a number of things at the same time, such as Conference POY, led team to Final Four, etc. etc.

MU has a great history, but its not great enough to merit 10+ retired jerseys.

All-Time points leader is important. It puts him in the discussion. But I don't think its enough on its own.

[Coleman]

So if you look at the current list of retired jerseys for actual players, it seems like you have a few no-brainers.

#3 - Wade.  Didn't complete his degree, but well deserved on the basketball court.
#14 - Meminger
#15 - Lee
#31 - Ellis
#24 - Thompson


Then you have some that are a little marginal IMO - I am certainly not saying that these players are undeserving, but that they are a step behind those above:

#20 - Lucas.  Very good player, but didn't receive many national accolades.  
#31 - Rivers.  Yeah he was an all-American, but this seems more about retiring a number based on his post-MU career.
#43 - Tatum
#44 - Kojis.  Thowback to the pre-McGuire days so it is hard to judge.

I would think that McNeal's career at MU rises to any of these final four players.  

Agree. Top 5 are in a different class than the bottom 4.

But there are probably another 10 people, including Jerel, who are in that same class as the bottom 4. Are you saying they should all get in? Does MU's history really merit ~20 retired jerseys? We have history, but we aren't North Carolina.

[NavinRJohnson]

I can never forgive Jerel for milking his wrist injury so he wouldn't have to be part of that Crean led debacle against Michigan State in the tournament.

[Aughnanure]

There is no question he should have his jersey retired.

Still would feel odd to have Jerel and not the other 2. They were all so freaking important for how Marquette surged into the Big East and are probably 3 of the most important players to have ever donned an MU jersey.

[CTWarrior]

So if you look at the current list of retired jerseys for actual players, it seems like you have a few no-brainers.

#3 - Wade.  Didn't complete his degree, but well deserved on the basketball court.
#14 - Meminger
#15 - Lee
#31 - Ellis
#24 - Thompson


Then you have some that are a little marginal IMO - I am certainly not saying that these players are undeserving, but that they are a step behind those above:

#20 - Lucas.  Very good player, but didn't receive many national accolades. 
#31 - Rivers.  Yeah he was an all-American, but this seems more about retiring a number based on his post-MU career.
#43 - Tatum
#44 - Kojis.  Thowback to the pre-McGuire days so it is hard to judge.

I would think that McNeal's career at MU rises to any of these final four players. 

I think McNeal was certainly a better player/more successful while at MU than was Doc Rivers.  (I also think Damon Key and Tony Miller and Travis Diener were better players while at MU than was Rivers.)  

Of the basketball alumni who have not had their numbers retired, McNeal would probably be the top choice.  There probably should be a difference between getting your jersey honored and having it retired.  There are only 37 allowed numbers for basketball players.  We've already retired 9 of them.  Assuming you want to allow for 15 guys on the team (13 + 2 walk-ons), you can only retire 22 numbers.   So we can only retire 13 more numbers, so you have to be very selective.

[Coleman]

I think McNeal was certainly a better player/more successful while at MU than was Doc Rivers.  (I also think Damon Key and Tony Miller and Travis Diener were better players while at MU than was Rivers.)  

Of the basketball alumni who have not had their numbers retired, McNeal would probably be the top choice.  There probably should be a difference between getting your jersey honored and having it retired.  There are only 37 allowed numbers for basketball players.  We've already retired 9 of them.  Assuming you want to allow for 15 guys on the team (13 + 2 walk-ons), you can only retire 22 numbers.   So we can only retire 13 more numbers, so you have to be very selective.

Technically, MU doesn't retire numbers. They retire jerseys.

[GGGG]

Agree. Top 5 are in a different class than the bottom 4.

But there are probably another 10 people, including Jerel, who are in that class. Are you saying they should all get in? Does MU's history really merit ~20 retired jerseys? We have history, but we aren't North Carolina.

Another 10 people?  I don't know about that.  His accolades exceed anyone not on that list of nine...and some of his career numbers are the best in Marquette history.  I think the only one that would have an argument is Jim Chones.

Yeah I don't think MU should have 20 retired jerseys...but if he have opened the doors to other "very, very good" but not "excellent" players, McNeal could be one of them.