2023 Ryder Cup

[Pakuni]

So Keegan, Cam and Glover aren’t part of the “cool guys” crew, Sam and JT are. Disgusting.

Team chemistry #nomatta?

[Lennys Tap]

Team chemistry #nomatta?

Not nearly as much as how the players actually performed on the golf course last year/ last month. At least it shouldn’t.. If Scottie S wants to play with Burns or Spieth wants to play with JT they can do it at that team event in New Orleans next year. A spot on the Ryder Cup should be the reward for one’s play on the tour rather than one for being somebody’s pal.

This is an example of golf accomplishment # nomatta.

[Pakuni]

Not nearly as much as how the players actually performed on the golf course last year/ last month. At least it shouldn’t.. If Scottie S wants to play with Burns or Spieth wants to play with JT they can do it at that team event in New Orleans next year. A spot on the Ryder Cup should be the reward for one’s play on the tour rather than one for being somebody’s pal.

This is an example of golf accomplishment # nomatta.

Honest questions, is there a direct correlation between play in the last month (or even year) and Ryder Cup success? And does past success in these competitions foretell future success?

If you think this is poor strategy, that's fair. Maybe it is.  But your insistence that there's some nefarious motive at play here is odd. Zach Johnson wants to win this thing way more than you do. He has a lot more riding on making the right choices than you ever will. To suggest that, with everything at stake, Johnson is intentionally sabotaging his chances of success to appease the "cool kids" is silly.

And no, a spot on the team shouldn't be a reward for anything.  Johnson's job is to assemble the best team he can, not to hand out rewards.

[🏀]

Lenny is taking his frustrations out on the cool kids club.

[MuggsyB]

I think 6 captain's picks is too many.  Zach Johnson wants to win of course but it's pretty clear Scheffler and Speith are the reason Burns and JT were chosen.  As far as whether there's a correlation between recent play and RC performance I don't know but JT has played so poorly it's honestly a joke he was selected..  And it's not like Speith has been on fire either. 

[jesmu84]

Honest questions, is there a direct correlation between play in the last month (or even year) and Ryder Cup success? And does past success in these competitions foretell future success?

If you think this is poor strategy, that's fair. Maybe it is.  But your insistence that there's some nefarious motive at play here is odd. Zach Johnson wants to win this thing way more than you do. He has a lot more riding on making the right choices than you ever will. To suggest that, with everything at stake, Johnson is intentionally sabotaging his chances of success to appease the "cool kids" is silly.

And no, a spot on the team shouldn't be a reward for anything.  Johnson's job is to assemble the best team he can, not to hand out rewards.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I think Lenny just prefers a pure meritocracy

[🏀]

And it's not like Speith has been on fire either. 

You keep saying this like it’s correct.

[rocket surgeon]

Freddie saying the crucial point out loud.   
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/fred-couples-keegan-bradley-ryder-cup-tight-quote

  so keegan didn't swap his piece of pizza for zj's liver and onion samich at the lunch table...


  put's the pressure on sam and further divides team usa

zach was not going to separate the tres amigos, but should have picked keegan over burns.  i love jordie, but he has been leaking oil.   shows spurts of greatness followed by talking to his imaginary friend

[MuggsyB]

You keep saying this like it’s correct.

Since Mid April he's had:

Two top 10's
Four Missed Cuts
Five nowhere near the top of the L-Boards.

He hasn't played particularly well the past four months. 

[swoopem]

So Keegan, Cam and Glover aren’t part of the “cool guys” crew, Sam and JT are. Disgusting.

Do you like playing golf with your friends or having the starter pair you up with randoms?

Not sure why this is difficult to understand. Guys wanted their buddies on the team and they should. It’ll bring the best out of everyone. No one wants to play with Keegan.

USA is gonna dominate and JT will lead the way

[🏀]

Since Mid April he's had:

Two top 10's
Four Missed Cuts
Five nowhere near the top of the L-Boards.

He hasn't played particularly well the past four months. 

12th best American over the past 12 months. Top 9 past 18 and 24 months.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I think Lenny just prefers a pure meritocracy

Then why have captains picks at all?

[Pakuni]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I think Lenny just prefers a pure meritocracy

That would be a perfectly fine take. But Lenny seems unwilling to admit that there's a sound strategy behind the JT pick (record of success in these events, team chemistry) even if he disagrees with it. Instead he seems to imply ithere's some sort of ethical or moral failing here, rather than simply a different approach to team building.

[🏀]

That would be a perfectly fine take. But Lenny seems unwilling to admit that there's a sound strategy behind the JT pick (record of success in these events, team chemistry) even if he disagrees with it. Instead he seems to imply ithere's some sort of ethical or moral failing here, rather than simply a different approach to team building.

People enjoy being contrarian and seeking controversy.

[Lennys Tap]

Do you like playing golf with your friends or having the starter pair you up with randoms?

Not sure why this is difficult to understand. Guys wanted their buddies on the team and they should.

So the Ryder Cup is the same as a Saturday morning game with your buddies? I thought it was professional golf - my bad.

Let’s pick the top 6 players on merit and let them each pick a pal who they can have some laughs with.

Look, I’m not saying JT isn’t a great player. He is. But he wasn’t great this year. And guys who were better than him deserved (imo) to be on the team ahead of him. What his record in past Ryder Cups or even what he does in this one is beside the point - his body of work THIS year didn’t merit a selection for THIS Ryder Cup team.

[🏀]

So the Ryder Cup is the same as a Saturday morning game with your buddies? I thought it was professional golf - my bad.

Let’s pick the top 6 players on merit and let them each pick a pal who they can have some laughs with.

Look, I’m not saying JT isn’t a great player. He is. But he wasn’t great this year. And guys who were better than him deserved (imo) to be on the team ahead of him. What his record in past Ryder Cups or even what he does in this one is beside the point - his body of work THIS year didn’t merit a selection for THIS Ryder Cup team.

I think Keegan should be on the team over JT in a vacuum. Keegan is an irritant, would love that on the team. However, JT’s resume since Straits is what is being evaluated. There’s a major in there.

That’s why Glover isn’t considered, he’s not even the 40th best American golfer over the past 12 months.

Is it professional golf if they aren’t paid though?

[RJax55]

In the last three decades, the US has underperformed in Ryder Cups. US teams that are stronger on paper are losing. The last time the US won a Ryder Cup on European soil was 1993(!!!).

One of the reasons given was a lack of camaraderie among the US squad. Zach Johnson was a member of five of these teams. He has seen this up close and personal. If he thinks that team chemistry is more important than merit on a few player selections (especially at an away Ryder Cup), I'm cool with it.

Again, it's been 30 years since an away victory. Picking on merit or who's hot hasn't led to success. Might be time to try a new approach??

[cheebs09]

I think people are viewing it as an All Star team or All Pro Teams as if it’s a recognition of a great season. At the end of the day, they are putting together a team that they think has the best chance of beating the other team.

Also, the format isn’t stroke play. So just using tournament results may not be the best way to put a team together.

If I were Keegan, I’d be ticked too. However, I don’t think it’s as simple as just picking someone because they are friends. I think there’s an argument that this is the best team to put on the course rather than the best collection of individuals.

[withoutbias]

Why aren't teams offering the kitchen sink for James Harden?  He's a top 10 talent in the world.  Why weren't teams bending over backwards to get Kyrie?  He's a top 10 talent in the world.  This is professional sports, not pickup basketball at the Y where buddies just want to get some run.

It's almost like just taking the most talented people and sending them out there doesn't work out.  Chemistry is a thing.

[jesmu84]

So the Ryder Cup is the same as a Saturday morning game with your buddies? I thought it was professional golf - my bad.

Let’s pick the top 6 players on merit and let them each pick a pal who they can have some laughs with.

Look, I’m not saying JT isn’t a great player. He is. But he wasn’t great this year. And guys who were better than him deserved (imo) to be on the team ahead of him. What his record in past Ryder Cups or even what he does in this one is beside the point - his body of work THIS year didn’t merit a selection for THIS Ryder Cup team.

As far as I understand, the current US Ryder cup rules enforce merit as the strict determinant for some of the team slots.

The rest of the slots are at the discretion of the captain of the team.

So it seems like your beef is actually with the folks who wrote the rules?

[MuggsyB]

We all hope JT does well but I honestly think he's now got a ton of additional pressure on him.  I expect him to be playing with Speith the 1st session.  If he is a dumpster fire and they get rolled it puts the team and ZJ in a tough spot. 
 

[RJax55]

We all hope JT does well but I honestly think he's now got a ton of additional pressure on him.  I expect him to be playing with Speith the 1st session.  If he is a dumpster fire and they get rolled it puts the team and ZJ in a tough spot. 
 

Ok, that could happen. So, ZJ should pick the team the same way that has been done for the last 6 away Ryder Cups? How has that worked?

[MuggsyB]

Ok, that could happen. So, ZJ should pick the team the same way that has been done for the last 6 away Ryder Cups? How has that worked?

is Poulter on the Euro squad?  I think you're overlooking how JT has played all season. 

[RJax55]

is Poulter on the Euro squad?  I think you're overlooking how JT has played all season.

You're viewing the Ryder Cup as regular tournament golf. It is not.

Tiger is the greatest tournament golfer I have seen and yet his Ryder Cup record is a sub-par (13-21-3).

Frankly, I have more confidence in JT playing well in the Ryder Cup than I would Lucas Glover. Need to learn from the past, especially at away Ryder Cups. The US don't need another Webb Simpson or Hunter Mahan moment.

[Lennys Tap]

You're viewing the Ryder Cup as regular tournament golf. It is not.

Tiger is the greatest tournament golfer I have seen and yet his Ryder Cup record is a sub-par (13-21-3).

Frankly, I have more confidence in JT playing well in the Ryder Cup than I would Lucas Glover. Need to learn from the past, especially at away Ryder Cups. The US don't need another Webb Simpson or Hunter Mahan moment.

So Tiger shouldn’t have made the Ryder Cup teams? But of course that’s absurd. Small sample sizes, regression to the mean, etc.

Each Ryder Cup Team is a stand alone entity. JT played his way on to two of them and performed well. This year he played himself off of the team but was given a spot over some who played better. You think that’s a good thing. I disagree.