Ray Rice let go by Ravens

[reinko]

Or option 3, it's not a cover-up and the NFL was acting within the boundaries of the law when TMZ is not \ plus TMZ has journalistic safeguards (as hard as that is to write the words journalistic and TMZ in the same sentence). 

How about we find out how TMZ got the video...no one seems to care, but that would be a big part of all this.  I doubt we will know, because that in and of itself may be an illegal action.

It's almost as if Schlereth or some of the cranks on the interwebs are saying the NFL should have broken the law to get this tape, while at the same time decrying the NFL for not doing enough over someone that broke the law, but was not prosecute as such.

Much more to come of this....way too many people quick to judge the NFL and the Ravens without knowing a ton of facts or just flat out making crap up.


Don't worry, the next step will be that "someone" saw the tape at the NFL and they will take that as a blanket statement that the right people saw it and it will be guilt by association.  That's coming next.

You are right.  I can think of three things that if they came out, could change my mind.

1.) Janay was brandishing a gun that we could not see on the video.
2.) RR has Parkinson's, which acted up violently, and caused him to punch his fiance in the face by accident.
3.) Ozzie Newsome, Jim Harbaugh, Roger Goodell are all mentally disabled.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Personally I don't find any difference between knocking her out with a left cross or if RR slapped her hard enough for her to trip and hit her head knocking herself out and it is a shame the NFL thinks otherwise.

If the she was attacking him, as she said she was until the tape showed otherwise, I believe most people would view things differently than just cold cocking someone.  Doesn't make it right, but the degree to which it is viewed is different based on the circumstances.  Many would say, "he shouldn't have hit her, but why the hell is she beating on him, kicking him in the balls, biting him, etc".  Since the NFL and Ravens didn't know what happened in the elevator and relied on the reports both parties gave, what are they supposed to do?

Hell, even the prosecution's office that actually saw the video didn't do much about it, AND THEY HAD THE TAPE.  I guess I'm struggling with trying to understand how the NFL or the Ravens are supposed to know what happened when they don't have access to the evidence AND when law enforcement (who does have the evidence) treats the incident mildly.  Exactly what are the Ravens and NFL supposed to do?   "Sorry law enforcement, despite the fact you have seen the video and we haven't, we believe you didn't go far enough even though we have no evidence to go on to prove that".  Really?

[brandx]

"I didn't technically see it...."
-Roger Goodell, after poking both eyes out with a hot andiron

"...ab ah hab noo staymut."
-Roger Goodell, cutting his tongue off with scissors

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are right.  I can think of three things that if they came out, could change my mind.

1.) Janay was brandishing a gun that we could not see on the video.
2.) RR has Parkinson's, which acted up violently, and caused him to punch his fiance in the face by accident.
3.) Ozzie Newsome, Jim Harbaugh, Roger Goodell are all mentally disabled.

How about Janay is biting him, kicking him in the balls, smashing his head and he knocks her off him in a hit that is "mild" and she trips and hits her head?  I could come up with 50 others like this.  She said she was attacking him.  He said it was self defense.  Law enforcement didn't prosecute him...even though they had the video.

Help me with this one Reinko, in all sincerity.

Ravens and NFL do not see video, have no legal access to video.  Check
Law enforcement and prosecution's office does see video.  Check
Law enforcement \ prosecutorial office allows Ray to basically get off the hook and they SAW THE VIDEO.  Check

Despite how law enforcement agencies respond, despite that they had the evidence, despite the NFL and Ravens not having it, despite what both parties stated....ALL OF THAT should be ignored and the NFL and Ravens (without any video evidence mind you), should have acted differently.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Big Ben RAPED a woman. Someone please explain why he is still in the NFL?

Kobe Bryant on line 4

[ChicosBailBonds]

Right, I haven't claimed that the NFL has seen the video.  What I'm saying (and I think others as well) is that they knew Rice was charged with aggravated assault for an incident in which he knocked his fiancee unconscious and chose to suspend him only two games.  This is why most people don't understand why the video matters.  The video doesn't change the previous facts one bit and those facts alone should have been enough for the NFL to hand down an appropriate punishment.

Except in context with what law enforcement did, who DID see the video, I think that changes things.  Law enforcement treated it with kid gloves, and they had the video.  So the NFL is supposed to punish differently based on evidence they don't have and law enforcement does?

How exactly is that going to work?  Lots and lots of Monday Morning QB'ing going on around here.  Lots of conspiracy theories since last night (not by you) are dying on the vine.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Exactly.  Yet, Chicos continues to spew nonsense about how they needed to make sure that Rice wasn't just "defending" himself.

That's not at all what I said....try to keep up.

[brandx]

How about Janay is biting him, kicking him in the balls, smashing his head and he knocks her off him in a hit that is "mild" and she trips and hits her head?  I could come up with 50 others like this.  She said she was attacking him.  He said it was self defense.  Law enforcement didn't prosecute him...even though they had the video.

Help me with this one Reinko, in all sincerity.

Ravens and NFL do not see video, have no legal access to video.  Check
Law enforcement and prosecution's office does see video.  Check
Law enforcement \ prosecutorial office allows Ray to basically get off the hook and they SAW THE VIDEO.  Check

Despite how law enforcement agencies respond, despite that they had the evidence, despite the NFL and Ravens not having it, despite what both parties stated....ALL OF THAT should be ignored and the NFL and Ravens (without any video evidence mind you), should have acted differently.

Can't we just end the discussion now? Re-instate Rice and throw Janay (and all the other women who whine about getting beaten) in prison.

It's interesting that Chicos has more info on who saw the video than guys like Schefter, Nortenson, King, McManus, and others whose only reason for living is to promote the NFL. They have the sources inside the league and they all say the NFL saw the video. The tape was freely available after the incident and if the NFL lied to reporters and really didn't see the tape, then everyone in the front office needs to go.

Once the NFL has to go to legal speak and semantics for their case, everyone knows what is really going on. The NFL has turned a blind eye towards violence on women before and is only in panic mode because of the release of the video.

[LAZER]

How about Janay is biting him, kicking him in the balls, smashing his head and he knocks her off him in a hit that is "mild" and she trips and hits her head?  I could come up with 50 others like this.  She said she was attacking him.  He said it was self defense.  Law enforcement didn't prosecute him...even though they had the video.

Help me with this one Reinko, in all sincerity.

Ravens and NFL do not see video, have no legal access to video.  Check
Law enforcement and prosecution's office does see video.  Check
Law enforcement \ prosecutorial office allows Ray to basically get off the hook and they SAW THE VIDEO.  Check

Despite how law enforcement agencies respond, despite that they had the evidence, despite the NFL and Ravens not having it, despite what both parties stated....ALL OF THAT should be ignored and the NFL and Ravens (without any video evidence mind you), should have acted differently.

What about asking Rice for the video?  While none of us know exactly what communication went on between the casino, the police, and the NFL, I think everyone expects more from Goodell and more due diligence when the video that did come out wasn't shocking to anyone.

Was the outcome of that video shocking to you? (not the violence, but the fact that he hit her).  Rice hitting her and knocking her out was the most plausible outcome of the incident that took place in the elevator.  I think most people would say "no" to that question and that's why everyone finds the "Hell...anything could have happened in that elevator" defense so pathetic.  When one of your players knocks his girlfriend unconscious and you suspend him only for 2 games, you better be damned sure it was a "minor" incident and fully understand the context of the incident.  It obviously wasn't minor, and the NFL didn't do enough to ensure it was and now Goodell and the league look like domestic violence isn't a major issue to them.  Whether it was intentional oversight or just incompetence, it's unacceptable.

[Benny B]

By the way Reinko, I've known the PR guy at the Ravens for many years (Chad Steele)...he is the brother of Sage Steele of ESPN and he's married to a good friend of mine. 

Some of you guys are really reaching on this stuff and jumping to tremendous conclusions without a lot of the facts.  They tried to help Ray and Janay, and Janay from day one felt she was part of the problem.  Her words today are how she feels.  More will come out in the weeks and months, but it's a feeding frenzy right now and a ton of people saying things about what the Ravens or NFL saw, what Janay's role is, etc that have no f'ing clue.

This is utterly disgusting Chicos.  You, as the father of a young girl, should be ashamed of yourself.  There is nothing that Janay could have done that would justify what RR did.  Ray was the one who brought the gun to the knife fight.

Using the analogy, even if your wife threatens you with a knife, if you truly love her and care about her, would you pull a gun on her?  Hell no, you get her help.  (just for the record, an NFL RB knocking his wife out cold isn't considered "helping").  I'm sure that you want the same thing as I for our daughters... that they will be raised in world where they can be confident enough to stand up for themselves.

All sarcasm aside - you need to take a timeout here to think about your defense of the situation at hand and the message you're sending to society by invoking the words of a domestic violence victim to rationalize and/or excuse the act.

[brandx]

This is utterly disgusting Chicos.  You, as the father of a young girl, should be ashamed of yourself.  There is nothing that Janay could have done that would justify what RR did.  Ray was the one who brought the gun to the knife fight.

Using the analogy, even if your wife threatens you with a knife, if you truly love her and care about her, would you pull a gun on her?  Hell no, you get her help.  (just for the record, an NFL RB knocking his wife out cold isn't considered "helping").  I'm sure that you want the same thing as I for our daughters... that they will be raised in world where they can be confident enough to stand up for themselves.

All sarcasm aside - you need to take a timeout here to think about your defense of the situation at hand and the message you're sending to society by invoking the words of a domestic violence victim to rationalize and/or excuse the act.

+1,000

[ChicosBailBonds]

What about asking Rice for the video?  While none of us know exactly what communication went on between the casino, the police, and the NFL, I think everyone expects more from Goodell and more due diligence when the video that did come out wasn't shocking to anyone.

Was the outcome of that video shocking to you? (not the violence, but the fact that he hit her).  Rice hitting her and knocking her out was the most plausible outcome of the incident that took place in the elevator.  I think most people would say "no" to that question and that's why everyone finds the "Hell...anything could have happened in that elevator" defense so pathetic.  When one of your players knocks his girlfriend unconscious and you suspend him only for 2 games, you better be damned sure it was a "minor" incident and fully understand the context of the incident.  It obviously wasn't minor, and the NFL didn't do enough to ensure it was and now Goodell and the league look like domestic violence isn't a major issue to them.  Whether it was intentional oversight or just incompetence, it's unacceptable.

My understanding, and I expect this will come out.  They did ask Rice for the video and his attorney said no. 

I agree that him hitting her was the most plausible outcome, don't think anyone is suggesting differently....but there are hits and then there are hits....and there are hits that lead to other things.  Did the hit knock her out, did she hit her head, was she attacking him, etc...all those things were unknown that the video shows.   I don't agree with your conclusion, especially when the wife says it didn't go down that way. 

But hey, this is a country that supposedly already knows what happened in Ferguson, and those Duke Lacrosse players...we all knew what happened there...it was obvious...until it wasn't obvious....and Susan Smith....and on and on.

Do you truly believe in your brain that if Goodell saw that video he would have issued a 2 game suspension?  Do you truly believe that Harbaugh would defend if he saw that video?  Truly believe that?  And remember, this is the same Goodell that people think OVER FINES and OVER SUSPENDS for the slightest transgression, yet for something like this he would only give 2 games.  Do you truly believe this? 

If you do, well then your line of thinking is fine, I guess.  Personally, I don't believe it for a second.  I think the video matters and the proof is the reaction yesterday and today.  The proof is the NON ACTION for Greg Hardy, because no video exists.  Too much ambiguity without the video, ESPECIALLY with law enforcement letting him off and his wife saying she was partly the cause by attacking him.  That doesn't mean you excuse it, nor was the NFL excusing it, in fact they admitted the 2 game suspension wasn't enough a few weeks ago.  That being said, in my mind there is no way they give a 2 game suspension if they saw that video. 

[brandx]

The proof is the NON ACTION for Greg Hardy, because no video exists.  

Greg Hardy was found guilty in a court of law of assaulting a female and communicating threats. Mecklenburg County Judge Rebecca Thorn-Tin sentenced Hardy to 18 months' probation. A 60-day jail sentence was suspended.

Despite the conviction, Goodell still feels that a player should be penalized more for an overzealous reaction to a great play they just made than to an overzealous reaction of beating and threatening to murder a female 1/2 your size.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is utterly disgusting Chicos.  You, as the father of a young girl, should be ashamed of yourself.  There is nothing that Janay could have done that would justify what RR did.  Ray was the one who brought the gun to the knife fight.

Using the analogy, even if your wife threatens you with a knife, if you truly love her and care about her, would you pull a gun on her?  Hell no, you get her help.  (just for the record, an NFL RB knocking his wife out cold isn't considered "helping").  I'm sure that you want the same thing as I for our daughters... that they will be raised in world where they can be confident enough to stand up for themselves.

All sarcasm aside - you need to take a timeout here to think about your defense of the situation at hand and the message you're sending to society by invoking the words of a domestic violence victim to rationalize and/or excuse the act.

Dude, I'm not defending Ray Rice here...at all.  Nada.  Those are HER words, not mine.  That's how she thinks because she said she got drunk and assaulted him.  Again, her words, not mine.

I'm not excusing it, at all.  Not sure where you are getting any of that.   I'm defending the fact the NFL and the Ravens didn't have nearly the information that so many here and elsewhere said they did, because they were not legally allowed to have it.  Also, in working with them on a near daily basis for years, I can tell you that if they saw that video, there is no way in hell they would give a two game suspension, just as there is no way in hell the Ravens would have stood up for him.  But clearly, I have not defended Ray Rice at all, not an ounce of it.  I have said some people have made some assumptions about what could have happened in the elevator that they would have NO IDEA if it were true or not unless they saw the video.  

[jesmu84]

Raven's owner speaks:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/super-page/ravens-owner-steve-bisciotti-finally-speaks-issues-letter-of-apology-to-fans/

I'm glad they made a statement and even more so glad that they owned up to failures all around.

Now, a further question, why is Ray Rice not still on the Ravens and not still in the NFL? Why the deviation from precedent now?

Edit: If the content of the letter will be a discussion topic, can we ignore the blogger's thoughts at the bottom?

[brandx]

Raven's owner speaks:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/super-page/ravens-owner-steve-bisciotti-finally-speaks-issues-letter-of-apology-to-fans/

I'm glad they made a statement and even more so glad that they owned up to failures all around.

Now, a further question, why is Ray Rice not still on the Ravens and not still in the NFL? Why the deviation from precedent now?

Edit: If the content of the letter will be a discussion topic, can we ignore the blogger's thoughts at the bottom?

The question I have is why, if he felt this way, did he send the coach out to talk to the media about something that was strictly management's decision rather than going out himself with the team president and the GM.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Raven's owner speaks:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/super-page/ravens-owner-steve-bisciotti-finally-speaks-issues-letter-of-apology-to-fans/

I'm glad they made a statement and even more so glad that they owned up to failures all around.

Now, a further question, why is Ray Rice not still on the Ravens and not still in the NFL? Why the deviation from precedent now?

Edit: If the content of the letter will be a discussion topic, can we ignore the blogger's thoughts at the bottom?

Like I've been saying, they never saw the video.  They tried to get it, they were denied.  They saw it yesterday and were horrified.

The video matters. 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Owners .lately, have a record of coming out and saying things they regret later. Best leave it to people who have practice in front of micro(phones).

[Benny B]

Like I've been saying, they never saw the video.  They tried to get it, they were denied.  They saw it yesterday and were horrified.

The video matters. 

Horrified at what the tape revealed or horrified by the realization they now had a PR sh--storm on their hands?

[jesmu84]

Horrified at what the tape revealed or horrified by the realization they now had a PR sh--storm on their hands?

My guess is both. But more the latter

[ChicosBailBonds]

Horrified at what the tape revealed or horrified by the realization they now had a PR sh--storm on their hands?

If I had to guess, both.

But no way they would have done a 2 game suspension if they had seen the video and what went down.  They relied on the police report, relied on testimony from both, relied on the justice gears and what they did, etc.   Sorry the conspiracy theories have died on the vine. 

[brandx]

Like I've been saying, they never saw the video.  They tried to get it, they were denied.  They saw it yesterday and were horrified.

The video matters. 

Absolutely ridiculous. The NFL hires the best when it comes to security. Ex-FBI, ex-Secret Service, ex-police investigators. Guys who have connections. These guys are not amateurs. They do deep, deep background checks on potential draft choices. For anyone to think the NFL could not get the video is ludicrous. The guys who the NFL uses for inside information have all said that the nFL had the video.

But maybe someone can answer a question. Why, after an obvious assault case involving a powerful professional football player beating a woman senseless, did the police allow them to leave the police station together. This cannot be SOP.

The video the police saw immediately from the hotel showed the aftermath of a brutal assault. Rice picking up an unconscious woman and dropping her, and then, after just kicking her out of the way so the elevator door could close, did nothing to attend to the woman he just beat into submission as she lay sprawled on the floor.

The police then just sent a brutally beaten woman with her intoxicated husband back home. Aren't there laws in NJ to protect victims of violent assault?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Here's what Ray Rice's attorney said a month ago.   Interesting....everything is there in his hypotheticals.  Doesn't quite come through in black and white now, does it. 

The video matters


"Let's assume for the sake of argument, rather than enter into the pretrial diversionary program that [Rice] entered into, we hypothetically move forward on the case. And hypothetically we litigate 100 motions and the video comes out and the video shows — hypothetically speaking now, hypothetically speaking — shows that Ray wasn't the first person that hit and Ray was getting repeatedly hit but just Ray hit harder, fired one back and hit harder. Hypothetically speaking, and he gets found not guilty. Is that result somehow better? Is it better for the public? Is it better for the Ravens? Is it better for Ray? Is it better for Janay?"
--Michael Diamondstein, Ray Rice attorney

[DegenerateDish]

This thread...holy hell.

For the record, Greg Hardy was just given harsh discipline by the NFL league office, immediately, for a serious violation of it's policy that can harm the league forever.

Hardy was sent a fine and notice last week for violating the league's uniform policy for the facepaint he wears in game.

Roger Goodell's NFL...wear socks too high, pay a heavy fine, immediately. Beat the living hell out of your wife/girlfriend...ehh, we'll try to get to it. Even then, we really don't care. But don't forget to buy pink jersey's all October!

[brandx]

Here's what Ray Rice's attorney said a month ago.   Interesting....everything is there in his hypotheticals.  Doesn't quite come through in black and white now, does it. 

The video matters


"Let's assume for the sake of argument, rather than enter into the pretrial diversionary program that [Rice] entered into, we hypothetically move forward on the case. And hypothetically we litigate 100 motions and the video comes out and the video shows — hypothetically speaking now, hypothetically speaking — shows that Ray wasn't the first person that hit and Ray was getting repeatedly hit but just Ray hit harder, fired one back and hit harder. Hypothetically speaking, and he gets found not guilty. Is that result somehow better? Is it better for the public? Is it better for the Ravens? Is it better for Ray? Is it better for Janay?"
--Michael Diamondstein, Ray Rice attorney

Interesting how you keep using other people's words to blame the victim. That way you can keep your holy deniability.

Another disgusting post!