Total NCAA Appearances

[MUMountin]

Updated Top 25 Schools in NCAA Appearances list.  Unfortunately, only school we gain ground on is UK, and they're still almost two decades ahead of us (at least until the NCAA starts vacating the Calipari era  )  We do break away from a tie with UConn and Texas, though.

We're still one appearance away from 'Nova for cracking the Top 10 in overall NCAA appearances.

1   (52)    Kentucky (OUT)
2   (44)    North Carolina
3   (43)    UCLA
4   (42)    Kansas
5   (39)    Louisville
6   (37)    Indiana
     (37)    Duke
8   (36)    Syracuse
9   (33)    Notre Dame
10 (32)    Villanova
11 (31)    Marquette
     (31)    Temple     
13 (30)    Connecticut (OUT)
     (30)    Texas (OUT)
     (30)    Illinois
16 (29)    Arkansas (OUT)
     (29)    Arizona
     (29)    Georgetown
19 (27)    Utah (OUT)
     (27)    St. John's (OUT)
     (27)    BYU (OUT)
     (27)    Oklahoma
     (27)    Michigan State
     (27)    Kansas State
     (27)    Cincinnati

Does not include any vacated appearances.

[geps]

Damn that list littered with old BE teams.

[MUMountin]

Damn that list littered with old BE teams.

True, but 4 of top 25 are NBE. 

FWIW, the rest and their appearances:

(23) Xavier -- tied for 33rd
(18) DePaul --tied for 49th
(18) Creighton
(15) Providence -- tied for 65th
(12) Butler -- Tied for 80th
(9)   Seton Hall -- tied for 106th


(14) Dayton
(9)  Richmond
(8)  SLU

[muwarrior69]

11 (31)    Marquette

PROFILES FOR ALL 68 TEAMS | BRACKET PREDICTOR
TOURNEY PROFILE

Best wins: Georgetown, Syracuse, at Pittsburgh (OT), Wisconsin

Worst losses: at Green Bay, at Villanova, at Cincinnati (OT)

Conference finish: T-1st, Big East

Polls and metrics: Marquette finally cracked the AP Top 25 in mid-January, and by the end of the month, the Golden Eagles were there to stay. They have risen into the top 20 of the BPI.

All-time tourney record: 38-31, three Final Four appearances, one national title.
Coach's tourney record: Buzz Williams (5-4)

Correct my math if I'm wrong. If we have a 38-31 overall record as noted above from the ESPN insider thread why do we only have 31 total NCAA appearances. My assumption is we were in the tourney 31 times where we lost the one game and were eliminated. However we lost no games our championship year which would give us 32 appearances. Where am I going wrong?

[Mike the Red]

 Years ago in the regional finals, the winners played to get to the Final Four and for some reason the losers had to play a third place game; that would account for the extra loss.

[Tugg Speedman]

Years ago in the regional finals, the winners played to get to the Final Four and for some reason the losers had to play a third place game; that would account for the extra loss.

I believe that ended in 1978 or 1979

[Sir Lawrence]

Years ago in the regional finals, the winners played to get to the Final Four and for some reason the losers had to play a third place game; that would account for the extra loss.

In 1971, for example, undefeated Marquette lost to Ohio State in the second round of what was called the Mideast Regional.  Marquette then played Kentucky for the "regional third place" and won handily. 

There was also a National Third place game.  Using that same year, Western Kentucky played Kansas, each team having lost their final four round game. 

[Sir Lawrence]

I believe that ended in 1978 or 1979

I think you are right about those regional third place games.  The last "national third place" game was played in 1981. 

[Sunbelt15]

Marquette (31). Surprising. We are a force.

[muwarrior69]

Yes, thanks, forgot about those consolation games.

[MUMountin]

Updated the chart below to reflect the 2015 tournament.  Although the past two years have meant that we dropped some ground on the top 10, the only team that actually passed us up during our recent drought is Texas.  Otherwise, we've dropped into a three-way tie with UCONN and Temple, with a large group on our heels.  Hopefully we right the ship next year to keep pace.
 

Top 25 Total NCAA Appearances (Vacated appearances excluded*)

1   (54)    Kentucky
2   (46)    North Carolina
3   (45)    UCLA
4   (44)    Kansas
5   (41)    Louisville
6   (39)    Duke
7   (38)    Indiana
8   (37)    Syracuse (OUT)*
9   (34)    Notre Dame
     (34)    Villanova
11  (32)    Texas
12  (31)    Marquette (OUT)
     (31)    Temple (OUT)
     (31)    Connecticut (OUT)
15  (30)    Illinois (OUT)
     (30)    Arkansas
     (30)    Arizona
     (30)    Georgetown
19  (29)    BYU
     (29)    Oklahoma
     (29)    Michigan State
     (29)    Cincinnati
23  (28)    Utah
     (28)    St. John's
     (28)    Kansas State (OUT)

Rest of BE:
(25) Xavier -- tied for 30th
(19) Creighton -- tied for 47th
(18) DePaul --tied for 53rd
(17) Providence -- tied for 56th
(13) Butler -- Tied for 77th
(9)   Seton Hall -- tied for 108th
     


* Not sure if Syracuse has to vacate their "NCAA appearances"--the decision just said "wins".  But, if so, then they would lose 4 more appearances, dropping them to 33 and 10th place.

[Galway Eagle]

I know it was a grand gesture by Al to spurn the ncaa when he did it but I really wouldn't mind another notch there.  Perhaps another sweet 16 or elite 8 to. 

[MUMountin]

Updated the chart below to reflect the 2017 bids.  Good to finally get another notch on the belt.  Regained the ground we lost to Temple and UConn last year to move back into a tie for 12th, and closing in on Texas and Cuse to crack the top 10.

Elsewhere, Xavier is close to crashing top 25.
 

Top 25 Total NCAA Appearances
Vacated appearances excluded

1   (56)    Kentucky
2   (48)    North Carolina
3   (46)    UCLA
     (46)    Kansas
5   (42)    Louisville
6   (41)    Duke
7   (39)    Indiana (OUT)
8   (36)    Notre Dame
     (36)    Villanova
10 (34)    Syracuse (OUT)
11 (33)    Texas (OUT)
12 (32)   Marquette
     (32)    Temple (OUT)
     (32)    Connecticut (OUT)
     (32)    Arizona
16 (31)    Michigan St.
     (31)    Arkansas
     (31)    Cincinnati
19  (30)    Illinois (OUT)
      (30)    Georgetown (OUT)
      (30)    Oklahoma (OUT)
22  (29)    BYU (OUT)
      (29)    Utah (OUT)
      (29)    Kansas State
25  (28)    Oklahoma St.
      (28)    Purdue
      (28)    West Virginia
      (28)    St. John's (OUT)


Rest of BE:
(27) Xavier -- tied for 29th
(20) Creighton -- tied for 44th
(19) Providence -- tied for 52nd
(18) DePaul --tied for 56th
(15) Butler -- Tied for 68th
(11) Seton Hall -- tied for 88th
 

[MUMountin]

Looking at this all a little closer, 11 of the top 28 didn't make it this year.

A lot of historically strong programs missed bids this year--Indiana, Syracuse, UConn, etc. 

Several of the programs that missed this year may be in the midst of their own ruts--Georgetown, Illinois, BYU, St. John's have all gone at least two years without a bid now.   

Several more may be at least a few years away from making it back--one would wonder about the trajectory of Indiana, Temple, Illinois, Texas.  All told, consistency is important, and hopefully MU is back on track to start another 8 year (or more!) bid streak. 

[Tugg Speedman]

I think you are right about those regional third place games.  The last "national third place" game was played in 1981.

What do you think of bring back the third place game?  If the NC game starts at 8PM CT, why not have hat at 5PM CT as a under-card?

[Tums Festival]

3rd all time among Catholic schools is something to be very proud of.

[forgetful]

Looking at this all a little closer, 11 of the top 28 didn't make it this year.

A lot of historically strong programs missed bids this year--Indiana, Syracuse, UConn, etc. 

Several of the programs that missed this year may be in the midst of their own ruts--Georgetown, Illinois, BYU, St. John's have all gone at least two years without a bid now.   

Several more may be at least a few years away from making it back--one would wonder about the trajectory of Indiana, Temple, Illinois, Texas.  All told, consistency is important, and hopefully MU is back on track to start another 8 year (or more!) bid streak.

I wonder when the last time Syracuse, UCONN, Indiana and Texas all missed the tournament. 

[GooooMarquette]

Interesting that Indiana is closer to Notre Dame, Nova and MU than they are to UK and UNC.

#fadedblueblood

[MUMountin]

Interesting that Indiana is closer to Notre Dame, Nova and MU than they are to UK and UNC.

#fadedblueblood

After making all but 1 tournament from 1980-2003, they've now missed 7 out of the last 14 years. 

[muwarrior69]

Updated the chart below to reflect the 2017 bids.  Good to finally get another notch on the belt.  Regained the ground we lost to Temple and UConn last year to move back into a tie for 12th, and closing in on Texas and Cuse to crack the top 10.

Elsewhere, Xavier is close to crashing top 25.
 

Top 25 Total NCAA Appearances
Vacated appearances excluded

1   (56)    Kentucky
2   (48)    North Carolina
3   (46)    UCLA
     (46)    Kansas
5   (42)    Louisville
6   (41)    Duke
7   (39)    Indiana (OUT)
8   (36)    Notre Dame
     (36)    Villanova
10 (34)    Syracuse (OUT)
11 (33)    Texas (OUT)
12 (32)   Marquette
     (32)    Temple (OUT)
     (32)    Connecticut (OUT)
     (32)    Arizona
16 (31)    Michigan St.
     (31)    Arkansas
     (31)    Cincinnati
19  (30)    Illinois (OUT)
      (30)    Georgetown (OUT)
      (30)    Oklahoma (OUT)
22  (29)    BYU (OUT)
      (29)    Utah (OUT)
      (29)    Kansas State
25  (28)    Oklahoma St.
      (28)    Purdue
      (28)    West Virginia
      (28)    St. John's (OUT)


Rest of BE:
(27) Xavier -- tied for 29th
(20) Creighton -- tied for 44th
(19) Providence -- tied for 52nd
(18) DePaul --tied for 56th
(15) Butler -- Tied for 68th
(11) Seton Hall -- tied for 88th

So where is Wisconsin?

[GGGG]

What do you think of bring back the third place game?  If the NC game starts at 8PM CT, why not have hat at 5PM CT as a under-card?

 
Here's what Vince Lombardi said about third place games: "a rinky-dink game in a rinky-dink town between two rinky-dink teams."

No thanks.

[MUMountin]

So where is Wisconsin?

With 23 total bids, UW is tied for 37th.

[jesmu84]

What kinda odds would Vegas give on MU making it into the top 5?

[muwarrior69]

What do you think of bring back the third place game?  If the NC game starts at 8PM CT, why not have hat at 5PM CT as a under-card?

I think the better idea would be to allow the Women Championship game to be played before the men. What an honor for the ladies to play on the big stage along side the men.

[i71_dawg]

Interesting that Indiana is closer to Notre Dame, Nova and MU than they are to UK and UNC.

#fadedblueblood

Indiana did have 2 national titles very long ago (1940..did they play with peach baskets then? & 1953).

But most of their success in the past 60 years was in the 30-year reign of General Bob Knight (which you obviously can't ignore or discount).  Knight is responsible for 24 of Indiana's 38 total NCAA berths (nearly 2/3).  And 5 of their 8 Final Fours were under Knight.  They've been to the Final Four just once in the past 25 years (same us MU).

Frankly MU should have had at least one more Final Four during Al McGuire's tenure (maybe more) but had some tough luck...hard to believe the George Thompson or Meminger teams couldn't make a Final Four.  Also the team in 1972 should have made it had Jim Chones stayed.  And they were unlucky having to play a team like Indiana in 1976 (what were probably the top 2 teams in the country would never play prior to the Final Four nowadays).

So, yes, I think IU's overall history is closer to MU, Notre Dame, and Nova than it is to Kentucky or UNC or UCLA or Kansas.



.

[GGGG]

I think the better idea would be to allow the Women Championship game to be played before the men. What an honor for the ladies to play on the big stage along side the men.

I don't know if you are kidding here.  The women's Final Four games, while not held in the same size venue as the men, are almost always sold out.  Why would it be an "honor" for them to play an opening act for the men?  They're doing just fine on their own.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't know if you are kidding here.  The women's Final Four games, while not held in the same size venue as the men, are almost always sold out.  Why would it be an "honor" for them to play an opening act for the men?  They're doing just fine on their own.

Yeah somehow given the poster I'm not thinking he's kidding. It would be cool if they did the D3 and D2 championships before though that you could say would be an honor and such

[GGGG]

Yeah somehow given the poster I'm not thinking he's kidding. It would be cool if they did the D3 and D2 championships before though that you could say would be an honor and such

I was thinking the same thing regarding D2.  Their championship game is usually on the Saturday before the first Elite 8 game and generally has a good crowd.  Would people even bother showing up?

A couple years ago when they were in Atlanta, I believe they held the D2 and D3 games on the Sunday between the semis and the finals.  As part of the 50th anniversary celebration.

[ErickJD08]

This list is pretty interesting.  Another reason MU should stand out is that most of the schools above MU have had great coaches for long tenures.  If you look at Duke, Coach K accounts for (I think) 32 out of the 41 appearances.  For Syracuse, Jim accounts for almost all of their appearances.  For Indiana, Bobby Knight accounts for the grand majority.  My point is that these schools would be considered "powerhouse" or "blue chip" programs but a lot of their success is based on a single coach.  MU has sustained success over decent turnover.

[Galway Eagle]

I was thinking the same thing regarding D2.  Their championship game is usually on the Saturday before the first Elite 8 game and generally has a good crowd.  Would people even bother showing up?

A couple years ago when they were in Atlanta, I believe they held the D2 and D3 games on the Sunday between the semis and the finals.  As part of the 50th anniversary celebration.

I believe you're right. I seem to remember something along those lines as well

[muwarrior69]

I don't know if you are kidding here.  The women's Final Four games, while not held in the same size venue as the men, are almost always sold out.  Why would it be an "honor" for them to play an opening act for the men?  They're doing just fine on their own.

Are you telling me that the women will get the same TV ratings as the men? To play that game before the men will increase their exposure to a much wider national audience and what could be better for the women's game. That is all I am saying

[GGGG]

Are you telling me that the women will get the same TV ratings as the men? To play that game before the men will increase their exposure to a much wider national audience and what could be better for the women's game. That is all I am saying

The men's game tips off at something like 8:20 PM Central.

How many people are going to tune in to the women's game tipping off at 5:40 or something like that?  How many people do you think will be in the stands when that game begins?

The women are doing fine on their own.  They don't get the same eyeballs as the men do but they play their championship in front of large, enthusiastic crowds. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Are you telling me that the women will get the same TV ratings as the men? To play that game before the men will increase their exposure to a much wider national audience and what could be better for the women's game. That is all I am saying

I think its the more unforunate language choice of the women's being "honored" to be the opening act for the men's championship.

[muwarrior69]

I think its the more unforunate language choice of the women's being "honored" to be the opening act for the men's championship.

Well pardon my politically incorrect language. Are not the men who make it to the final four "honored' by playing on the big stage? I just think the NCAA is missing an opportunity here. The men and women can play the final four at the same venue. Women on Thursday and the men on Friday and play the championship games on Sunday.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Well pardon my politically incorrect language. Are not the men who make it to the final four "honored' by playing on the big stage? I just think the NCAA is missing an opportunity here. The men and women can play the final four at the same venue. Women on Thursday and the men on Friday and play the championship games on Sunday.

I think it was more the implication that the women should be honored to share the stage with the men but the men wouldn't be honored to share it with the women. I know that wasn't your intent. Happens to the best of us.

[MUMountin]

My (semi)annual update to the chart below to reflect the 2019 bids. 

We continue to hover just outside the Top 10, although we have plenty of company. 

The good news is that despite our swoon since the early part of the decade, we have only dropped one total spot since 2013 (to Texas, and regained an appearance on them this year.).  The bad news is that most of the Top 10 all added on during that time, so we're a bit further from cracking into the Top 10. 

Top 25 Total NCAA Appearances
Vacated appearances excluded

1   (58)   Kentucky
2   (50)   North Carolina
3   (48)   Kansas
4   (47)   UCLA  (OUT)
5   (43)   Duke
6   (39)   Louisville* 
    (39)   Indiana (OUT)
8   (38)   Villanova
9   (36)   Syracuse
    (36)   Notre Dame  (OUT)
11  (34)   Texas  (OUT)
12  (33)   Marquette
    (33)   Temple
    (33)   Cincinnati
    (33)   Michigan St.
    (33)   Arizona (OUT)
17  (32)   Oklahoma
    (32)   Connecticut (OUT)
    (32)   Arkansas (OUT)
20  (31)   Kansas State
21  (30)   Purdue
    (30)   Illinois (OUT)
    (30)   Georgetown (OUT)     
24  (29)   St. John's
    (29)   Ohio State
    (29)   BYU (OUT)
    (29)   Utah (OUT)
    (29)   West Virginia (OUT)

Rest of BE:
29  (28)   Xavier
46  (21)   Creighton
48  (20)   Providence
56  (18)   DePaul
66  (16)   Butler
90  (12)   Seton Hall

* Louisville has had to vacate NCAA appearances from 2011-2015 since the last time this was updated, dropping them behind Duke and into a tie with Indiana. 

And since someone will ask, Wisconsin sits at 39 with 24 total appearances.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Crazy to me just how bad Arizona was this year. Only three Pac 10 teams in the tourney this year (Could argue it shouldn’t have even been that much) and Arizona wasn’t anywhere near the bubble.

[MUMountin]

While we await the brackets, I wanted to update this list for total NCAA appearances before the new set of appearances comes out.  I'll note that the last time I updated this was in 2019, when our appearance against Murray State put us in a tie for 12th overall.  We dropped a place to Michigan St. during Wojo's last year and currently sit in a tie for 13th. 

I've marked who is likely to miss this year's tourney below--it looks like at least 13 of the top 25 will miss this year's tourney, with two more as bubblish but probably safe per Bracket Matrix (MSU and Oklahoma). 

Our overall position likely doesn't change this year (unless MSU gets left out), but we'll break out of a tie with Arkansas, gain a game on 6 teams ahead of us, and create more space from a bunch of the teams that are just a few appearances behind us. 

Long term--Indiana, Nova, Louisville, Syracuse, and ND all seem on more shaky ground these days.  I'm sure that some of them will bounce back, but we've got a chance to catch up with some of those programs over the next decade if Shaka continues his sustained success.

Top 25 Total NCAA Appearances (before 2024 bids)
Vacated appearances excluded

1   (60)   Kentucky
2   (52)   North Carolina
3   (51)   Kansas
4   (50)   UCLA  (likely out)
5   (45)   Duke
6   (41)   Indiana  (likely out)
7   (40)   Villanova  (likely out)
8   (39)   Louisville  (likely out)
    (39)   Syracuse  (likely out)
10  (37)   Notre Dame  (likely out)
    (37)   Texas
12  (36)   Michigan St.  (probably in)
13  (35)   Marquette
    (35)   UConn     
    (35)   Arkansas  (likely out)
17  (33)   Arizona
    (33)   Temple  (playing for autobid but otherwise likely out)
    (33)   Cincinnati  (likely out)
    (33)   Oklahoma  (probably in)
    (33)   Purdue
    (33)   Illinois
23  (32)   Kansas State  (likely out)
24  (31)   Georgetown  (likely out)
    (31)   Ohio State  (likely out)
    (31)   West Virginia   (likely out)

Rest of BE and UW:
28  (29)   St. John's
    (29)   Xavier
38  (26)   Wisconsin
43  (24)   Creighton
54  (22)   Providence
61  (18)   DePaul
76  (16)   Butler
91  (14)   Seton Hall

[MU82]

Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, Indiana and UCLA "likely" out? That's bold of you, MUM! 

[MUMountin]

Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, Indiana and UCLA "likely" out? That's bold of you, MUM! 

Haha--it was to differentiate from my prior methodology which is usually to update these after the new appearances are official.   But yes, all of those are definitely out! 

I also just realized that Temple made it to the AAC championship, so they very well may make the tourney.