MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown on June 18, 2012, 10:11:56 PM
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So far a pretty blockbuster summer for the program from a recruiting (Milwaukee's Best), scheduling (OSU) and staffing (Chew & Wainwright) perspective. I'm personally a loather of the Hiroshima talk and speculation of Buzz's hands being tied by the administration, but the latest events seem to signal in increase in support for the Mens BBall program, rather than a decrease.
I'm sure this theory has been passed around in the past, but I'm think "We want to take the program to the next level and do more from an administration side than has been done before. However, we need to make sure that the additional exposure MU gets (aircraft carrier game, investment in coaching staff, etc) is all positive. Buzz, we need you to tighten things up with the guys to make absolutely sure that the team's off-court behavior reflects this."
I claim no insider information here.
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Not to mention this could be the first fruits of upgrading to Williams as AD; these are some smart investments in the program especially heading into the coming years of conference uncertainty... also he's Pilarz's guy, and can make the case for additional $ for the program perhaps better than his predecessor.
Williams being an ND guy is a plus in my book for knowing how to invest in and promote the strengths of an institution outside of the context of a conference.
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The only thing you MIGHT* be able to attribute to the new administration with regard to support for the program would be the hiring of Chew and Wainwright - although Wainwright probably came on the cheap...Chew not so much.
The recruiting of Milwaukee's Best and the game on the Aircraft Carrier are strictly a byproduct of Buzz Williams's success while at MU. Larry Williams and Pilarz have zero to do with the Aircraft Carrier game, schedule, or recruiting...
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The recruiting of Milwaukee's Best and the game on the Aircraft Carrier are strictly a byproduct of Buzz Williams's success while at MU. Larry Williams and Pilarz have zero to do with the Aircraft Carrier game, schedule, or recruiting...
To say that that LW and SP had "zero to do" with the carrier game, scheduling or recruiting is false.
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To say that that LW and SP had "zero to do" with the carrier game is false.
+1
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Not to mention this could be the first fruits of upgrading to Williams as AD; these are some smart investments in the program especially heading into the coming years of conference uncertainty... also he's Pilarz's guy, and can make the case for additional $ for the program perhaps better than his predecessor.
Seriously? You think the program doesn't have enough money?
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Seriously? You think the program doesn't have enough money?
Seriously? You think my post says that?
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Seriously? You think my post says that?
Maybe I am missing something, but that is exactly how I would understand the words "make the case for additional $ for the program" to mean.
Please, clarify for me. :)
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Maybe I am missing something, but that is exactly how I would understand the words "make the case for additional $ for the program" to mean.
Please, clarify for me. :)
Where in my post do you get that I "think the program doesn't have enough money"?
EDIT: I think you're adding something
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To say that that LW and SP had "zero to do" with the carrier game, scheduling or recruiting is false.
Perhaps slightly overstated - okay, how about 5% - with regard to scheduling? (Yet we all know Broeker is the guy who handles MU's schedule - and was the one approached about the aircraft carrier game - who took it straight to Buzz.) I'm sure you'd agree that MU wasn't invited to play on aircraft carrier due to the arrival of Scott Pilarz and Larry Williams, correct? Lastly, can you clarify what LW and SP have to do with recruiting?
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can you clarify what LW and SP have to do with recruiting?
I believe the definition of "Hiroshima" contains elements of the administration imposing standards which would prevent Buzz from fielding a competitive team. If you buy that, it seems you'd be admitting that the administration has quite a bit to do with recruiting.
The point of my post is to show three examples of how "Hiroshima" is not happening, in fact just the opposite so far:
1) Sustained/increased investment in the program
2) Increased emphasis on high-visibility non-conference scheduling
3) No apparent additional restrictions on recruiting
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I believe the definition of "Hiroshima" contains elements of the administration imposing standards which would prevent Buzz from fielding a competitive team. If you buy that, it seems you'd be admitting that the administration has quite a bit to do with recruiting.
The point of my post is to show three examples of how "Hiroshima" is not happening, in fact just the opposite so far:
1) Sustained/increased investment in the program
2) Increased emphasis on high-visibility non-conference scheduling
3) No apparent additional restrictions on recruiting
1) Why would you reduce the investment in the Golden Egg program in your athletic department?
2) You really believe it is Pilarz and Larry Williams who are increasing the emphasis on high visibility non-conference scheduling?? (Sorry but they have nothing to do with that.)
3) Burton and Wilson are solid academically. Seeing that Buzz was able to sign McKay, a Juco, was a relief to many -as there was concern about if JUCO's would continue to be allowed.
Last point - Hiroshima - from what I saw defined was going to be the reaction of the board, if the board found out reasons certain CURRENT players might not be able to return - due to heightened academic standards (above NCAA minimum requirement that 95% of universities abide by), that went into effect immediately, and would make it very difficult for the player to right the ship...rumor being Todd Mayo.
At the end of the day, only an idiotic administration would take the keys to the Ferrari they've been handed, and turn it into a Kia. I don't think Pilarz is an idiot, but Larry Williams - the verdict is out - the guy hasn't reflected well among big time donors in early interactions, and of course the dumb comments to the Journal Sentinel regarding Buzz.
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Perhaps slightly overstated - okay, how about 5% - with regard to scheduling? (Yet we all know Broeker is the guy who handles MU's schedule - and was the one approached about the aircraft carrier game - who took it straight to Buzz.) I'm sure you'd agree that MU wasn't invited to play on aircraft carrier due to the arrival of Scott Pilarz and Larry Williams, correct? Lastly, can you clarify what LW and SP have to do with recruiting?
They provide the resources for Buzz to go anywhere he wants at anytime for recruiting. And as sixstrings has pointed out, there apparently aren't restrictions on recruiting as feared.
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2) You really believe it is Pilarz and Larry Williams who are increasing the emphasis on high visibility non-conference scheduling?? (Sorry but they have nothing to do with that.)
3) Burton and Wilson are solid academically. Seeing that Buzz was able to sign McKay, a Juco, was a relief to many -as there was concern about if JUCO's would continue to be allowed.
Last point - Hiroshima - from what I saw defined was going to be the reaction of the board, if the board found out reasons certain CURRENT players might not be able to return - due to heightened academic standards (above NCAA minimum requirement that 95% of universities abide by), that went into effect immediately, and would make it very difficult for the player to right the ship...rumor being Todd Mayo.
At the end of the day, only an idiotic administration would take the keys to the Ferrari they've been handed, and turn it into a Kia. I don't think Pilarz is an idiot, but Larry Williams - the verdict is out - the guy hasn't reflected well among big time donors in early interactions, and of course the dumb comments to the Journal Sentinel regarding Buzz.
1) Why would you reduce the investment in the Golden Egg program in your athletic department?
2) You really believe it is Pilarz and Larry Williams who are increasing the emphasis on high visibility non-conference scheduling?? (Sorry but they have nothing to do with that.)
3) Burton and Wilson are solid academically. Seeing that Buzz was able to sign McKay, a Juco, was a relief to many -as there was concern about if JUCO's would continue to be allowed.
Last point - Hiroshima - from what I saw defined was going to be the reaction of the board, if the board found out reasons certain CURRENT players might not be able to return - due to heightened academic standards (above NCAA minimum requirement that 95% of universities abide by), that went into effect immediately, and would make it very difficult for the player to right the ship...rumor being Todd Mayo.
At the end of the day, only an idiotic administration would take the keys to the Ferrari they've been handed, and turn it into a Kia. I don't think Pilarz is an idiot, but Larry Williams - the verdict is out - the guy hasn't reflected well among big time donors in early interactions, and of course the dumb comments to the Journal Sentinel regarding Buzz.
1.) At the very least, SP and LW have allowed the carrier game to happen, and provided the resources to make sure it happens. That counts for something.
2.) The rumors regarding heightened academic standards show no evidence in truth whatsoever. The details of academic eligibility are at the link below and have not changed since Spring. Oh and these are the very standards that our current players have to deal with, so take from that what you want.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/acad-comp/spec-rel/070110aaa.html
3.) It is amazing to me that you can say that "the verdict out out" on LW being intelligent based upon some message board rumors and comments that you took as negative in a newspaper. You have NO IDEA what Buzz and LW's relationship is like. And you don't think LW had anything to do with the additions of Chew and Wainwright?
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3.) It is amazing to me that you can say that "the verdict out out" on LW being intelligent based upon some message board rumors and comments that you took as negative in a newspaper. You have NO IDEA what Buzz and LW's relationship is like. And you don't think LW had anything to do with the additions of Chew and Wainwright?
LW wanted to hire Ty Willingham and Charlie Weis for those positions.
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LW wanted to hire Ty Willingham and Charlie Weis for those positions.
Pretty sure he signed off on Chew and Wainwright only after Digger and John MacLeod turned down the gigs.
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LW wanted to hire Ty Willingham and Charlie Weis for those positions.
Now see, THAT right there is funny.
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3.) It is amazing to me that you can say that "the verdict out out" on LW being intelligent based upon some message board rumors and comments that you took as negative in a newspaper. You have NO IDEA what Buzz and LW's relationship is like. And you don't think LW had anything to do with the additions of Chew and Wainwright?
I agree that it's harsh to say "the verdict is out" on LW being intelligent. I don't think he would have risen to his position without an above average IQ. It's totally fair, though, to say the jury is out as to whether he'll be a successful AD at Marquette. He only been here 6 months, yet some here (not you) who are still waiting for Buzz to finish year 5 before giving him a thumbs up are Larry's biggest boosters. He's stepped in it a couple of times, but so did Buzz early in his tenure. I haven't seen enough to make any judgement. For now I'm just rooting that he's the right guy to help MU reach the next level. As Dave Wannstedt used to say, "All the pieces are in place".
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Perhaps slightly overstated - okay, how about 5% - with regard to scheduling? (Yet we all know Broeker is the guy who handles MU's schedule - and was the one approached about the aircraft carrier game - who took it straight to Buzz.) I'm sure you'd agree that MU wasn't invited to play on aircraft carrier due to the arrival of Scott Pilarz and Larry Williams, correct? Lastly, can you clarify what LW and SP have to do with recruiting?
Our recruiting budget is allowed to be so big because of the big guns. Broecker is under LW in our athletic department. LW had to approve the game, is that not "support"?
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I agree that it's harsh to say "the verdict is out" on LW being intelligent. I don't think he would have risen to his position without an above average IQ. It's totally fair, though, to say the jury is out as to whether he'll be a successful AD at Marquette. He only been here 6 months, yet some here (not you) who are still waiting for Buzz to finish year 5 before giving him a thumbs up are Larry's biggest boosters. He's stepped in it a couple of times, but so did Buzz early in his tenure. I haven't seen enough to make any judgement. For now I'm just rooting that he's the right guy to help MU reach the next level. As Dave Wannstedt used to say, "All the pieces are in place".
This is fair. I think anytime someone gets a promotion to a larger position there are going to be questions, and sometimes those people are going to make mistakes. It is how they learn from those mistakes and grow that is important.
I think Buzz made mistakes that he has learned from. Can't we expect the same from LW?
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MU bought out Chew by offering him $100,000 on top of what UIllinois offered him, so I'd say the adminitration had something to do with that.
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1.) At the very least, SP and LW have allowed the carrier game to happen, and provided the resources to make sure it happens. That counts for something.
2.) The rumors regarding heightened academic standards show no evidence in truth whatsoever. The details of academic eligibility are at the link below and have not changed since Spring. Oh and these are the very standards that our current players have to deal with, so take from that what you want.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/acad-comp/spec-rel/070110aaa.html
3.) It is amazing to me that you can say that "the verdict out out" on LW being intelligent based upon some message board rumors and comments that you took as negative in a newspaper. You have NO IDEA what Buzz and LW's relationship is like. And you don't think LW had anything to do with the additions of Chew and Wainwright?
1) Only a couple of idiots would decline the opportunity to play on an aircraft carrier on national TV - so giving them credit for "providing the resources to make sure it happens counts for something" is pretty generous...it's a no brainer to play that game - so why do they deserve credit? You think any other AD and President would decline that opportunity??
3) I don't think LW had anything more to do with getting Chew and Wainwright to MU than signing off on whatever salary was negotiated (Chew expensive, Wainwright cheap) - they came to MU due to their relationship with Buzz. Clearly, money was already available in the departure of Benford and Lundy...just a matter of how much more cash was spent on Chew than Benford - though Benford was reported to be paid quite well. LW hasn't shown a great deal of common sense in his media dealings and interactions with some donors, period. That isn't a rumor.
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MU bought out Chew by offering him $100,000 on top of what UIllinois offered him, so I'd say the adminitration had something to do with that.
Oh no...not according to Ners. He said that money was "already available." LW in no way had to sign off on dropping a bunch of $$ on a coach already employed elsewhere. ::)
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Our recruiting budget is allowed to be so big because of the big guns. Broecker is under LW in our athletic department. LW had to approve the game, is that not "support"?
Really -we are calling them the "big guns" now?? Wow. These guys walked into a system that was already set up and budgeted quite well...and operating quite well....largely due to having a great young coach. Again, they walked into a Ferrari situation, and all they had to do was continue moving forward with business as usual. Instead, LW decides to open his mouth to the JS Online, and make dumb comments regarding Buzz....and in just 59 days on the job.....piss off his number 1 asset in his department.
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Oh no...not according to Ners. He said that money was "already available." LW in no way had to sign off on dropping a bunch of $$ on a coach already employed elsewhere. ::)
Why don't you answer my question Sultan - why does LW deserve credit for signing off on a game on an aircraft carrier? What A.D. wouldn't sign off on that game??
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Why don't you answer my question Sultan - why does LW deserve credit for signing off on a game on an aircraft carrier? What A.D. wouldn't sign off on that game??
Those are two questions, but I will answer both:
1. Because he is the athletic director and am assuming that ultimately he is responsible for at least giving the OK of where the team plays.
2. I don't know.
See, essentially what you have managed to do, is give Buzz all the accolades for everything that is going well, while placing blame on the LW for everything that *might* be going wrong. I don't think that is an accurate picture at all.
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Why don't you answer my question Sultan - why does LW deserve credit for signing off on a game on an aircraft carrier? What A.D. wouldn't sign off on that game??
An AD who thinks Marquette athletics should resemble SLU athletics.
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Really -we are calling them the "big guns" now?? Wow. These guys walked into a system that was already set up and budgeted quite well...and operating quite well....largely due to having a great young coach. Again, they walked into a Ferrari situation, and all they had to do was continue moving forward with business as usual. Instead, LW decides to open his mouth to the JS Online, and make dumb comments regarding Buzz....and in just 59 days on the job.....piss off his number 1 asset in his department.
And yet Buzz is still here praising the support of Marquette...Why would I call the Athletic Director and President of the University "Big Guns" silly me...I guess neither of them have any control over anything at the school. You are going to try to tell me Buzz had anything to do with out budgeting?? With our program's reputation?? 2003 put this basketball team on the map again. 2 Sweet 16's are great, but what Crean and Wade have done for this program makes everything Buzz had done to this point look minuscule.
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I agree that it's harsh to say "the verdict is out" on LW being intelligent. I don't think he would have risen to his position without an above average IQ. It's totally fair, though, to say the jury is out as to whether he'll be a successful AD at Marquette. He only been here 6 months, yet some here (not you) who are still waiting for Buzz to finish year 5 before giving him a thumbs up are Larry's biggest boosters. He's stepped in it a couple of times, but so did Buzz early in his tenure. I haven't seen enough to make any judgement. For now I'm just rooting that he's the right guy to help MU reach the next level. As Dave Wannstedt used to say, "All the pieces are in place".
I agree 100%.
I don't think we can vilify the guy, nor can we give him a ton of credit.
LW looks pretty good so far, and in a similar fashion, Buzz did well with the players he inherited at MU.
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3) I don't think LW had anything more to do with getting Chew and Wainwright to MU than signing off on whatever salary was negotiated (Chew expensive, Wainwright cheap) - they came to MU due to their relationship with Buzz. Clearly, money was already available in the departure of Benford and Lundy...just a matter of how much more cash was spent on Chew than Benford - though Benford was reported to be paid quite well. LW hasn't shown a great deal of common sense in his media dealings and interactions with some donors, period. That isn't a rumor.
If you are right (and I'm not saying you are), then they should just fire LW, make Buzz AD and give him some administrative support to handle the AD's logistical/admin. duties.
Buzz is clearly making all of the decision anyways. Right? He decided to put the frosh. & soph. players in Tower (allegedly).
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1) Only a couple of idiots would decline the opportunity to play on an aircraft carrier on national TV - so giving them credit for "providing the resources to make sure it happens counts for something" is pretty generous...it's a no brainer to play that game - so why do they deserve credit? You think any other AD and President would decline that opportunity??
3) I don't think LW had anything more to do with getting Chew and Wainwright to MU than signing off on whatever salary was negotiated (Chew expensive, Wainwright cheap) - they came to MU due to their relationship with Buzz. Clearly, money was already available in the departure of Benford and Lundy...just a matter of how much more cash was spent on Chew than Benford - though Benford was reported to be paid quite well. LW hasn't shown a great deal of common sense in his media dealings and interactions with some donors, period. That isn't a rumor.
If that isn't a rumor, please provide factual evidence.
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If that isn't a rumor, please provide factual evidence.
I know I am setting myself up for a tazing, but,
I know of 2 very common sense donors who have been impressed with LW.
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Perhaps slightly overstated - okay, how about 5% - with regard to scheduling? (Yet we all know Broeker is the guy who handles MU's schedule - and was the one approached about the aircraft carrier game - who took it straight to Buzz.) I'm sure you'd agree that MU wasn't invited to play on aircraft carrier due to the arrival of Scott Pilarz and Larry Williams, correct? Lastly, can you clarify what LW and SP have to do with recruiting?
Ners, you couldn't be more incorrect. In fact, Larry Williams is the only reason we are playing on the aircraft carrier and I know this for fact. Let me spell it out for you... UNC and MSU played on an aircraft carrier last year. UNC's AD is an ND alum and tight with Larry. The UNC AD put in a good word for Larry for the following year. OSU's AD is also an ND alum. Larry asked the OSU AD to play MU. Much like MU, ND alums take care of one another. Therefore MU is playing the OSU. I've kept my mouth shut, but the mudslinging against the new administration despite complete lack of information is beyond my comprehension. Ners, if you are excited for the aircraft carrier game.. do yourself a favor and call Larry to thank him. I know Buzz did.
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Ners, you couldn't be more incorrect. In fact, Larry Williams is the only reason we are playing on the aircraft carrier and I know this for fact. Let me spell it out for you... UNC and MSU played on an aircraft carrier last year. UNC's AD is an ND alum and tight with Larry. The UNC AD put in a good word for Larry for the following year. OSU's AD is also an ND alum. Larry asked the OSU AD to play MU. Much like MU, ND alums take care of one another. Therefore MU is playing the OSU. I've kept my mouth shut, but the mudslinging against the new administration despite complete lack of information is beyond my comprehension. Ners, if you are excited for the aircraft carrier game.. do yourself a favor and call Larry to thank him. I know Buzz did.
Thank you.
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Ners, you couldn't be more incorrect. In fact, Larry Williams is the only reason we are playing on the aircraft carrier and I know this for fact. Let me spell it out for you... UNC and MSU played on an aircraft carrier last year. UNC's AD is an ND alum and tight with Larry. The UNC AD put in a good word for Larry for the following year. OSU's AD is also an ND alum. Larry asked the OSU AD to play MU. Much like MU, ND alums take care of one another. Therefore MU is playing the OSU. I've kept my mouth shut, but the mudslinging against the new administration despite complete lack of information is beyond my comprehension. Ners, if you are excited for the aircraft carrier game.. do yourself a favor and call Larry to thank him. I know Buzz did.
You expect me to believe that MU's (athletic department) connections got MU into this game, and not a cold-call to Mike Broeker inviting MU to play in one of the most high profile games of the year?
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Ners, you couldn't be more incorrect. In fact, Larry Williams is the only reason we are playing on the aircraft carrier and I know this for fact. Let me spell it out for you... UNC and MSU played on an aircraft carrier last year. UNC's AD is an ND alum and tight with Larry. The UNC AD put in a good word for Larry for the following year. OSU's AD is also an ND alum. Larry asked the OSU AD to play MU. Much like MU, ND alums take care of one another. Therefore MU is playing the OSU. I've kept my mouth shut, but the mudslinging against the new administration despite complete lack of information is beyond my comprehension. Ners, if you are excited for the aircraft carrier game.. do yourself a favor and call Larry to thank him. I know Buzz did.
Not quite as awesome as the epic bma smackdown (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=28095.msg324636#msg324636), but still plenty satisfying.
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Egg on face regarding Buzz listening to SMU shouldn't smear LW's record henceforth. Props to LW on the aircraft setup, Buzz should have given him props in public. Lots of ND alums in AD positions, used to be at SMU too. Duke AD,etc. have former ND connections.
Larry's ability to retain his top level coaches and new hirings will be largely how Larry is judged after his tenure at MU.
Loved what Cottingham did for us and had us at a peak athletically. Will we be better off in five years? I'll be rooting for Larry, and decisions like potentially drying up the JUCO spigot will probably be very impactful.
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Why don't you answer my question Sultan - why does LW deserve credit for signing off on a game on an aircraft carrier? What A.D. wouldn't sign off on that game??
Douche chill!
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And yet Buzz is still here praising the support of Marquette...Why would I call the Athletic Director and President of the University "Big Guns" silly me...I guess neither of them have any control over anything at the school. You are going to try to tell me Buzz had anything to do with out budgeting?? With our program's reputation?? 2003 put this basketball team on the map again. 2 Sweet 16's are great, but what Crean and Wade have done for this program makes everything Buzz had done to this point look minuscule.
Agree, Crean and Wade were huge in the resurgence of MU. Interesting issue now would be - well we can't even admit a Prop 48 due to being in a BCS league - but if we could, would the current administration allow us to take a Prop 48? Without D-Wade, there is no Final Four, period..we saw the next 2 years NIT appearances. To say Buzz's back to back Sweet 16's are minuscule - when that hasn't been accomplished at MU since the days of Al McGuire - I'd say that is a bit off. Also highly doubt MU is headed for the NIT anytime soon with the rosters ahead..
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Ners, you couldn't be more incorrect. In fact, Larry Williams is the only reason we are playing on the aircraft carrier and I know this for fact. Let me spell it out for you... UNC and MSU played on an aircraft carrier last year. UNC's AD is an ND alum and tight with Larry. The UNC AD put in a good word for Larry for the following year. OSU's AD is also an ND alum. Larry asked the OSU AD to play MU. Much like MU, ND alums take care of one another. Therefore MU is playing the OSU. I've kept my mouth shut, but the mudslinging against the new administration despite complete lack of information is beyond my comprehension. Ners, if you are excited for the aircraft carrier game.. do yourself a favor and call Larry to thank him. I know Buzz did.
If you say so....however, just to point out...Larry Williams wasn't hired until 3 weeks after the first Aircraft Carrier game was played...so not sure when the UNC AD put in a good word for Larry for the following year? Also, do you not think it is odd that if Larry Williams were the catalyst behind this game, that he wouldn't have broken the news to Buzz, or approached Buzz about it? Why go through Broeker? Perhaps LW and Buzz aren't on talking terms?? It is an absolute fact that the first Buzz heard about it was through Broeker....
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If you say so....however, just to point out...Larry Williams wasn't hired until 3 weeks after the first Aircraft Carrier game was played...so not sure when the UNC AD put in a good word for Larry for the following year? Also, do you not think it is odd that if Larry Williams were the catalyst behind this game, that he wouldn't have broken the news to Buzz, or approached Buzz about it? Why go through Broeker? Perhaps LW and Buzz aren't on talking terms?? It is an absolute fact that the first Buzz heard about it was through Broeker....
LW to MB: "Hey what does the schedule look like for next year? I just got a call about this."
MB to LW: "That might screw up a possible date with UWM, but that is a great opportunity. I've got to talk to Buzz about a couple things regarding the schedule. I'll run this by him."
Seriously, stop trying to cause trouble where no trouble evidently exists....
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Agree, Crean and Wade were huge in the resurgence of MU. Interesting issue now would be - well we can't even admit a Prop 48 due to being in a BCS league - but if we could, would the current administration allow us to take a Prop 48?
No school can take a Prop 48 any longer....they are non-qualifiers no matter the conference.
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LW to MB: "Hey what does the schedule look like for next year? I just got a call about this."
MB to LW: "That might screw up a possible date with UWM, but that is a great opportunity. I've got to talk to Buzz about a couple things regarding the schedule. I'll run this by him."
Seriously, stop trying to cause trouble where no trouble evidently exists....
Or how about this:
MB to LW: "Hey, you really don't know what our schedule looks like for next year?"
LW to MB: "Easy smart ass, I know you've been here on the job for 4+ years, but I'm going to help you become a better athletic director. At present you tie your tie too tight, and either your head is going to explode or you are going to offend someone irrevocably beyond repair."
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Or how about this:
MB to LW: "Hey, you really don't know what our schedule looks like for next year?"
LW to MB: "Easy smart ass, I know you've been here on the job for 4+ years, but I'm going to help you become a better athletic director. At present you tie your tie too tight, and either your head is going to explode or you are going to offend someone irrevocably beyond repair."
OK.... I guess you've stopped even attempting to be reasonable and are instead resorting to histrionics...
Good luck with that.
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Looking at the exchanges here. DEFINITELY #firstworldproblems
Grab your favorite drink and chill folks! Lol
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Or how about this:
MB to LW: "Hey, you really don't know what our schedule looks like for next year?"
LW to MB: "Easy smart ass, I know you've been here on the job for 4+ years, but I'm going to help you become a better athletic director. At present you tie your tie too tight, and either your head is going to explode or you are going to offend someone irrevocably beyond repair."
Dang, man. For somebody who likes to rail against the people who mock the tinfoil hat brigade, you sure do provide them with a lot of fodder.
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If you say so....however, just to point out...Larry Williams wasn't hired until 3 weeks after the first Aircraft Carrier game was played...so not sure when the UNC AD put in a good word for Larry for the following year? Also, do you not think it is odd that if Larry Williams were the catalyst behind this game, that he wouldn't have broken the news to Buzz, or approached Buzz about it? Why go through Broeker? Perhaps LW and Buzz aren't on talking terms?? It is an absolute fact that the first Buzz heard about it was through Broeker....
LW plans to push Buzz off the carrier and then "not hear" his calls for help from the water - Wagner-Wood style. That is a FACT.
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I agree that it's harsh to say "the verdict is out" on LW being intelligent. I don't think he would have risen to his position without an above average IQ. It's totally fair, though, to say the jury is out as to whether he'll be a successful AD at Marquette. He only been here 6 months, yet some here (not you) who are still waiting for Buzz to finish year 5 before giving him a thumbs up are Larry's biggest boosters. He's stepped in it a couple of times, but so did Buzz early in his tenure. I haven't seen enough to make any judgement. For now I'm just rooting that he's the right guy to help MU reach the next level. As Dave Wannstedt used to say, "All the pieces are in place".
I agree 100%.
I don't think we can vilify the guy, nor can we give him a ton of credit.
LW looks pretty good so far, and in a similar fashion, Buzz did well with the players he inherited at MU.
Guns n Ammo, you are clearly not a Chicago guy if you thought the Wannstedt quote was a positive.
Oh, and Lenny's Tap, thanks for ruining my summer. We all have a summer filled with positive news and you have to pull out Wannstedt's famous precursor to disaster quote!!!
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He's got a knee.
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OK.... I guess you've stopped even attempting to be reasonable and are instead resorting to histrionics...
Good luck with that.
Ok, so is it really reasonable to think LW had to put a call in to Mike Broeker to learn the dynamics of the MU basketball schedule - as you hypothesized? I'd sure as hell hope a competent athletic director would have a good handle on the schedule situation with his number 1 cash cow sport.
Lastly, I'm not going to attack you personally and say you are resorting to histrionics, or quote you and say "because Sultan says" etc., as you have done in this thread - which is what you do when you really have no solid rebuttal to the answers/questions I've posed in response to your posts.
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Dang, man. For somebody who likes to rail against the people who mock the tinfoil hat brigade, you sure do provide them with a lot of fodder.
!!!!
You have to realize that the problem with ners is that he is still hung up on the WVU dance (among other things) and believes his boy was wronged by LW. He cannot or is incapable of getting over that and thus LW is a bad ND guy that is not in BW’s corner because of a perceived slight in a context he knows nothing about. That has thus perpetuated itself further into anything the basketball program does is 100% because of Buzz and LW, Pilarz or anyone else merely is an obstacle for Buzz. Or, on a good day, he'll grant these folks 5% credit.
This has been an entertaining thread. BMA would be proud.
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Ok, so is it really reasonable to think LW had to put a call in to Mike Broeker to learn the dynamics of the MU basketball schedule - as you hypothesized? I'd sure as hell hope a competent athletic director would have a good handle on the schedule situation with his number 1 cash cow sport.
Lastly, I'm not going to attack you personally and say you are resorting to histrionics, or quote you and say "because Sultan says" etc., as you have done in this thread - which is what you do when you really have no solid rebuttal to the answers/questions I've posed in response to your posts.
Excuse me? I have answered every question you have posed to me in this thread. This is your problem...when you hear that Buzz heard about the carrier game from MB, you automatically start asking questions under the assumption that Buzz and LW aren't on speaking terms.
Why would you make that assumption? Because of a bias you have going back to some comments in a newspaper from three or four months ago? As I mentioned, perhaps since MB does the scheduling that Buzz and him go back and forth more about that subject then LW and Buzz do. But instead of acknowledging that as a possibility, you make some kind of stupid, over the top response. I least I am willing to admit that I don't know what I don't know.
bma was right....you are incapable of having a reasonable back and forth with anything related to Buzz.
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!!!!
You have to realize that the problem with ners is that he is still hung up on the WVU dance (among other things) and believes his boy was wronged by LW. He cannot or is incapable of getting over that and thus LW is a bad ND guy that is not in BW’s corner because of a perceived slight in a context he knows nothing about. That has thus perpetuated itself further into anything the basketball program does is 100% because of Buzz and LW, Pilarz or anyone else merely is an obstacle for Buzz. Or, on a good day, he'll grant these folks 5% credit.
This is 100% correct.
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If you say so....however, just to point out...Larry Williams wasn't hired until 3 weeks after the first Aircraft Carrier game was played...so not sure when the UNC AD put in a good word for Larry for the following year? Also, do you not think it is odd that if Larry Williams were the catalyst behind this game, that he wouldn't have broken the news to Buzz, or approached Buzz about it? Why go through Broeker? Perhaps LW and Buzz aren't on talking terms?? It is an absolute fact that the first Buzz heard about it was through Broeker....
Just so I'm clear, you think Shaquilvaine's version of events - i.e. a couple of influential ADs get together with a third with whom they share longstanding relationships and collegiate ties to engineer a matchup - is unreasonable/unlikely.
Instead, you're proffering a version that says the organizers of the aircraft carrier game decided the 2012 matchup within three weeks of the 2011 game, and chose Marquette - a school with, if we're being honest, a moderate national profile - based on the sheer awesomeness of a fourth-year head coach with (at the time) one Sweet Sixteen appearance under his belt.
Really?
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Just so I'm clear, you think Shaquilvaine's version of events - i.e. a couple of influential ADs get together with a third with whom they share longstanding relationships and collegiate ties to engineer a matchup - is unreasonable/unlikely.
I heard it all went down via LinkedIn.
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Sultan/Chicos - I can promise there won't be a bevy of schools calling MU next spring trying to try to hire away Larry Williams or Scott Pilarz. I'm not going to give more than 5% of credit for the current state of MU hoops to Larry Williams and Pilarz. Why would you guys?? What have those 2 guys done for MU hoops?? MU hoops is what it is at present, because of (in no particular order) - Father Wild, Crean, Buzz, D-Wade. With Buzz shepherding the program the last 4 years....and getting really good results and some really good incoming recruits - Buzz is the university's biggest asset. Then again, since you guys work/have worked in university administration, you have a bias and need to defend your administrative kin to the grave.
Lastly Sultan - you still haven't answered the question: Do you really feel LW had to put a call into Mike Broeker to determine the dynamics of the MU schedule/if it would be possible for MU to play the game on the aircraft carrier?? (That is what you hypothesized as to why if LW was the catalyst behind landing the aircraft game...Buzz first heard about it through Broeker - which is 100% FACT.) And you accuse me of making stupid/over the top statements? Sure seems if I'm the athletic director and I* personally landed a huge exposure game/opportunity for the basketball program - I'd be pretty ecstatic to call the coach to share the great news. Call me crazy and stupid again - it's what people do when they have no legitimate argument. And P.S., I could give 2 craps what Chicos, BMA or you think of me.
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Just so I'm clear, you think Shaquilvaine's version of events - i.e. a couple of influential ADs get together with a third with whom they share longstanding relationships and collegiate ties to engineer a matchup - is unreasonable/unlikely.
Instead, you're proffering a version that says the organizers of the aircraft carrier game decided the 2012 matchup within three weeks of the 2011 game, and chose Marquette - a school with, if we're being honest, a moderate national profile - based on the sheer awesomeness of a fourth-year head coach with (at the time) one Sweet Sixteen appearance under his belt.
Really?
All good points - the thing I found odd about Shaquilvaine's scenario (and not saying it wasn't accurate or truthful - just odd), was that the first Buzz Williams heard about the game, it came from Broeker. Just really surprised if Larry Williams engineered the whole process and game becoming a reality - he had Broeker call Buzz with the news...that is all...
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All good points - the thing I found odd about Shaquilvaine's scenario (and not saying it wasn't accurate or truthful - just odd), was that the first Buzz Williams heard about the game, it came from Broeker. Just really surprised if Larry Williams engineered the whole process and game becoming a reality - he had Broeker call Buzz with the news...that is all...
That's not what Shaqilvaine said happened.
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Simple logic 101:
Buzz is awesome. Fact.
Larry dissed Buzz. Fact.
MU gets a high profile game on a Aircraft Carrier. Fact.
Therefore, Larry deserves 5% credit.
I don't need to know anything else. My opinion formed by the facts. If you disagree, you are a d*ck.
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Sultan/Chicos - I can promise there won't be a bevy of schools calling MU next spring trying to try to hire away Larry Williams or Scott Pilarz. I'm not going to give more than 5% of credit for the current state of MU hoops to Larry Williams and Pilarz. Why would you guys?? What have those 2 guys done for MU hoops??
I have answered this already.
Lastly Sultan - you still haven't answered the question: Do you really feel LW had to put a call into Mike Broeker to determine the dynamics of the MU schedule/if it would be possible for MU to play the game on the aircraft carrier?? (That is what you hypothesized as to why if LW was the catalyst behind landing the aircraft game...Buzz first heard about it through Broeker - which is 100% FACT.)
If building the basketball schedule is MB's responsibility first and foremost, I think LW may not know all of the up to date details at any given moment. Furthermore since it is MB's responsibility, checking with him makes sense. And I am not claiming it to be fact...just a scenario that I think is much more plausible than the "LW and Buzz aren't talking" question that you asked.
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I can promise there won't be a bevy of schools calling MU next spring trying to try to hire away Larry Williams or Scott Pilarz. I'm not going to give more than 5% of credit for the current state of MU hoops to Larry Williams and Pilarz.
Ners - I don't think the first point has been discussed on this post at all... Is it possible you are mistaking this for another thread?
Also the topic at the beginning of this thread didn't discuss past success of the program, and certainly didn't give credit to people who weren't there for the FF run, etc.
Maybe its just me, but your tone seems aggressive. What's got you so worked up, big guy?
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All good points - the thing I found odd about Shaquilvaine's scenario (and not saying it wasn't accurate or truthful - just odd), was that the first Buzz Williams heard about the game, it came from Broeker. Just really surprised if Larry Williams engineered the whole process and game becoming a reality - he had Broeker call Buzz with the news...that is all...
How about this outlandish hypothetical: LW was dealing with other happenings within the athletic dept so Broeker told Buzz about the OSU game.
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Ners, I'll be even more clear. The original idea for a battleship game came from MSU AD Mike Hollis. He teamed up with morale entertainment to launch the game. UNC was in the game and their AD is Bubba Cunningham, an ND alum. Larry being the smart guy that he is calls Bubba. Bubba tells him it's going to be an annual game to honor the military. Larry pleads with Bubba to put in a good word for MU next year. Bubba also involves fellow ND alum and OSU athletic director Gene Smith. Morale entertainment, Gene Smith and Larry Williams discuss the possibility of a 2012 game. When an agreement is reached, Larry hands over the reigns to Broeker to settle the date/ details.
Ners, have you ever talked to Larry. He's a very connected guy and very impressive. He made it clear at a luncheon he wants Buzz long term and sees MU as a perennial top ten team. Why don't you meet him instead of basing your opinion on some newspaper quote, a quote that I might add that was taken out of context. I have no interest in a pissing match I'm just here to share and learn info from others on the great program we all love.
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How about this outlandish hypothetical: LW was dealing with other happenings within the athletic dept so Broeker told Buzz about the OSU game.
Or this crazy hypothetical: LW used his connections to help land MU a spot in the game, then left it to Broeker - who, as we know, oversees scheduling - to finalize the arrangements.
The highly technical term for this in the business world is "delegating."
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Ners, I'll be even more clear. The original idea for a battleship game came from MSU AD Mike Hollis. He teamed up with morale entertainment to launch the game. UNC was in the game and their AD is Bubba Cunningham, an ND alum. Larry being the smart guy that he is calls Bubba. Bubba tells him it's going to be an annual game to honor the military. Larry pleads with Bubba to put in a good word for MU next year. Bubba also involves fellow ND alum and OSU athletic director Gene Smith. Morale entertainment, Gene Smith and Larry Williams discuss the possibility of a 2012 game. When an agreement is reached, Larry hands over the reigns to Broeker to settle the date/ details.
Ners, have you ever talked to Larry. He's a very connected guy and very impressive. He made it clear at a luncheon he wants Buzz long term and sees MU as a perennial top ten team. Why don't you meet him instead of basing your opinion on some newspaper quote, a quote that I might add that was taken out of context. I have no interest in a pissing match I'm just here to share and learn info from others on the great program we all love.
This makes perfect sense....thank you for providing this.
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Ners, I'll be even more clear. The original idea for a battleship game came from MSU AD Mike Hollis. He teamed up with morale entertainment to launch the game. UNC was in the game and their AD is Bubba Cunningham, an ND alum. Larry being the smart guy that he is calls Bubba. Bubba tells him it's going to be an annual game to honor the military. Larry pleads with Bubba to put in a good word for MU next year. Bubba also involves fellow ND alum and OSU athletic director Gene Smith. Morale entertainment, Gene Smith and Larry Williams discuss the possibility of a 2012 game. When an agreement is reached, Larry hands over the reigns to Broeker to settle the date/ details.
Ners, have you ever talked to Larry. He's a very connected guy and very impressive. He made it clear at a luncheon he wants Buzz long term and sees MU as a perennial top ten team. Why don't you meet him instead of basing your opinion on some newspaper quote, a quote that I might add that was taken out of context. I have no interest in a pissing match I'm just here to share and learn info from others on the great program we all love.
There are 4 schools involved in the first 2 battleship games. Three of those schools' ADs are ND alums. That's not just a coincidence.
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There are 4 schools involved in the first 2 battleship games. Three of those schools' ADs are ND alums. That's not just a coincidence.
There's a chance that's just coincidence. But it shows that LW had his hand in things.
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LW should take to the mic at Buzz's BBQ.
At 6'8" 3 bills I don't think I'll be bringing up the Enola Gay theory.
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There are 4 schools involved in the first 2 battleship games. Three of those schools' ADs are ND alums. That's not just a coincidence.
Well, let's not forget that with 3 carrier games on Nov. 9, that list should be 8 schools involved. In the other two games (including the other "official" Carrier Classic that is Florida/Georgetown) the ADs are Syracuse's Daryl Gross (no ND ties I know of), San Diego State's Jim Sterk (Notre Dame alum), Florida's Jeremy Foley (no ND ties), and Georgetown's Lee Reed (no ND ties). So it's actually four of eight. But in the actual Carrier Classic, there are no ND connections among the ADs (Foley and Reed).
Definitely glad for Shaquilvaine's input, but the actual Carrier Classic has no ND ties amongst the ADs that I know of. Of course, if anyone has more info, please provide.
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There are 4 schools involved in the first 2 battleship games. Three of those schools' ADs are ND alums. That's not just a coincidence.
I thought Uconn was suppose to be in the Carrier Classic this year and when it fell through, MU was asked.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6948663/uconn-huskies-sign-play-2012-carrier-classic-aboard-aircraft-carrier (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6948663/uconn-huskies-sign-play-2012-carrier-classic-aboard-aircraft-carrier)
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Shaq,
Thanks for the info on how this all went down. Kudos to LW for getting it done. To be clear, I've never been one to criticize Larry because of where he went to school or what sport he played. Nor do I doubt that he's a smart and well connected guy.
However, I still have a problem with his remarks regarding Buzz in the Journal last winter. You say they were taken out of context and make it sound as if Larry himself told you that himself. Well and good. LW wouldn't be the first guy to be used by a writer to "create" a story. I just wished he would have clarified publicly that his (very public) remarks were misconstued rather than sharing it in private. I just think that when you step in it in public you also make amends there.
All that said, I truly hope that Fr Pilarz, LW and Buzz are all on the same page going forward. The Marquette basketball program is on the verge of sustained excellence that we haven't seen since the 1970s. IMHO Buzz is the essential ingredient to making this a reality - hope the powers that be agree.
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I thought Uconn was suppose to be in the Carrier Classic this year and when it fell through, MU was asked.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6948663/uconn-huskies-sign-play-2012-carrier-classic-aboard-aircraft-carrier (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6948663/uconn-huskies-sign-play-2012-carrier-classic-aboard-aircraft-carrier)
Looking it up, I don't even know which one is the actual "Carrier Classic" anymore. I've seen numerous places saying it's Florida/GT, but others that say it's MU/tOSU and that Florida/GT was set up in under a month. UConn and Arizona were supposed to be in the 2012 edition, but now neither are playing on a carrier.
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Simple logic 101:
MU gets a high profile game on a Aircraft Carrier. Fact.
we don't actually know yet if the ship will really be an aircraft carrier
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we don't actually know yet if the ship will really be an aircraft carrier
You thinkin' maybe sailboat?
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However, I still have a problem with his remarks regarding Buzz in the Journal last winter. You say they were taken out of context and make it sound as if Larry himself told you that himself. Well and good. LW wouldn't be the first guy to be used by a writer to "create" a story. I just wished he would have clarified publicly that his (very public) remarks were misconstued rather than sharing it in private. I just think that when you step in it in public you also make amends there.
LW said nothing about Buzz that Buzz hasn't said himself. It was completely blown out of proportion on these boards. A public clarification was not at all necessary because a lot of MU fans weren't even aware of the quotes and a vast majority of the MU fans who did see them understood that he wasn't taking shots at Buzz. In other words, it was a non-issue.
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LW said nothing about Buzz that Buzz hasn't said himself. It was completely blown out of proportion on these boards. A public clarification was not at all necessary because a lot of MU fans weren't even aware of the quotes and a vast majority of the MU fans who did see them understood that he wasn't taking shots at Buzz. In other words, it was a non-issue.
I don't think it's ever a non issue when an AD criticizes one of his coaches in public. It's something you almost never see done. The fact that Buzz had already apologized publicly doesn't make it more okay for LW to pile on - it makes it even less necessary and explicable.
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I don't think it's ever a non issue when an AD criticizes one of his coaches in public. It's something you almost never see done. The fact that Buzz had already apologized publicly doesn't make it more okay for LW to pile on - it makes it even less necessary and explicable.
Just for fun, let's review the quote...
"He's an emotional guy, passionate guy, but if you're going to have long-term success, you have to channel that and control that. He was happy as a clam to dance across the court, but he didn't think about offending somebody else. But that is his passion and exuberance. He is either going to explode because his tie is on too tight or he's going to offend somebody that is irrevocable."
What did he say that wasn't true? What did he say that was "piling on?" What did he say that was unnecessary and inexplicable?
I'll save you the time. Nothing, nothing and nothing.
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I don't think it's ever a non issue when an AD criticizes one of his coaches in public. It's something you almost never see done. The fact that Buzz had already apologized publicly doesn't make it more okay for LW to pile on - it makes it even less necessary and explicable.
Something else you almost never see done:
(http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/buzz-williams-dancing-260x230.png)
Interesting that the outrage isn't about what LW said (because, it seems, nobody disagrees with the essence of what he said) but with the fact he said it.
Is Buzz Williams above reproach?
Edit: And, for good measure, let's note that this "criticism" by LW is about as vanilla as it gets. "Hey Buzz ... it might not be a good idea to dance on opposing team's courts after close wins. Tends to make enemies. Thanks."
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Or this crazy hypothetical: LW used his connections to help land MU a spot in the game, then left it to Broeker - who, as we know, oversees scheduling - to finalize the arrangements.
The highly technical term for this in the business world is "delegating."
That
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Something else you almost never see done:
(http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/buzz-williams-dancing-260x230.png)
Interesting that the outrage isn't about what LW said (because, it seems, nobody disagrees with the essence of what he said) but with the fact he said it.
Is Buzz Williams above reproach?
Edit: And, for good measure, let's note that this "criticism" by LW is about as vanilla as it gets. "Hey Buzz ... it might not be a good idea to dance on opposing team's courts after close wins. Tends to make enemies. Thanks."
Buzz immediately and profusely apologized for the dance. No need to pile on.
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Buzz immediately and profusely apologized for the dance. No need to pile on.
One man's "piling on" is another man's "being Buzz's boss."
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I don't see anything wrong with the comments. It reminds me a little of Kenny Williams vs. Ozzie Guillen. Ozzie was out there and said a lot of stupid things that Kenny would have to publicly apologize for (because that's his job) and many thought they had a poor relationship. But ultimately Kenny gave the reigns over to Ozzie and they were pretty successful... even won a championship. Everyone loved when Ozzie would say something colorful, but go too far over the line and it will ultimately be his downfall (see his Castro comments this year). That's exactly what LW is saying here -- what makes you, breaks you.
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One man's "piling on" is another man's "being Buzz's boss."
Be Buzz's boss at the Al, then. The public reprimand was what people had a problem with.
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Be Buzz's boss at the Al, then. The public reprimand was what people had a problem with.
I would bet that an overwhelming number of MU fans had no problem with his comments whatsoever.
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Just for fun, let's review the quote...
"He's an emotional guy, passionate guy, but if you're going to have long-term success, you have to channel that and control that. He was happy as a clam to dance across the court, but he didn't think about offending somebody else. But that is his passion and exuberance. He is either going to explode because his tie is on too tight or he's going to offend somebody that is irrevocable."
What did he say that wasn't true? What did he say that was "piling on?" What did he say that was unnecessary and inexplicable?
I'll save you the time. Nothing, nothing and nothing.
And you failed to mention the first quote in the article - the part where LW "looks forward to helping Buzz become a better coach." When you've never coached a day in your life (at least at a paid professional level), you don't come in and say to the media you look forward to helping someone become a better coach/grow as a coach. You especially don't say it when you are just 59 days on the job, and the guy you are critiquing is in his 4th year and on his way to delivering your school's first back to back Sweet 16 appearances in 35+ years. The irony of LW's comments, are that their idiocy damn near offended someone irrevocably - Buzz.
Sadly, I'd almost like to see Buzz leave MU at this point just to see what would happen to the program - many here sure seem to think MU is an elite level program just due to the fact it spends a lot of money. The reality is, our program is only as good as the head coach - for every Tom Crean and Buzz Williams - there are also Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane. Pretty sure we don't need our new A.D., to help our current coach become a better coach - seems Buzz has done pretty well prior to Larry Williams being involved in his life.
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Question---Does MU really spend a lot of money or does Dick Strong spend a lot of money? Very easy to have big budget if money is given and has to be spent on men's basketball.
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And you failed to mention the first quote in the article - the part where LW "looks forward to helping Buzz become a better coach." When you've never coached a day in your life (at least at a paid professional level), you don't come in and say to the media you look forward to helping someone become a better coach/grow as a coach. You especially don't say it when you are just 59 days on the job, and the guy you are critiquing is in his 4th year and on his way to delivering your school's first back to back Sweet 16 appearances in 35+ years. The irony of LW's comments, are that their idiocy damn near offended someone irrevocably - Buzz.
Sadly, I'd almost like to see Buzz leave MU at this point just to see what would happen to the program - many here sure seem to think MU is an elite level program just due to the fact it spends a lot of money. The reality is, our program is only as good as the head coach - for every Tom Crean and Buzz Williams - there are also Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane. Pretty sure we don't need our new A.D., to help our current coach become a better coach - seems Buzz has done pretty well prior to Larry Williams being involved in his life.
The actual quote: "I expect Buzz back. Want him back. I think we started something good with him. . . . I'd be excited to help him grow as a coach."
That's a very different comment than saying, "I'm going to help Buzz be a better coach." I don't think you'd find a coach anywhere who doesn't think that he needs to grow as a coach. When Buzz reads books about coaching/leadership or talks with other coaches or other leaders, he's attempting to grow as a coach. Larry Williams is Buzz Williams' boss. If he's not trying to help Buzz grow in his role, then he never would have been hired.
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And you failed to mention the first quote in the article - the part where LW "looks forward to helping Buzz become a better coach." When you've never coached a day in your life (at least at a paid professional level), you don't come in and say to the media you look forward to helping someone become a better coach/grow as a coach.
I have said this before....
That is the completely wrong way to look at that quote. Completely.
Let me give you an example. I have a couple graphic designers on my staff. I can't design worth a crap. If I say "I'd be excited to help them grow as designers," that doesn't mean that I am going to physically sit down next to them to help them become better designers. It simply means I'm going to support them and give them the resources necessary to help improve themselves within their profession.
Sadly, I'd almost like to see Buzz leave MU at this point just to see what would happen to the program - many here sure seem to think MU is an elite level program just due to the fact it spends a lot of money. The reality is, our program is only as good as the head coach - for every Tom Crean and Buzz Williams - there are also Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane. Pretty sure we don't need our new A.D., to help our current coach become a better coach - seems Buzz has done pretty well prior to Larry Williams being involved in his life.
And it seems to me that you are getting OUTRAGED over something that we have no idea if Buzz is even worried about. I mean, do you think their entire relationship is defined by quotes in a newspaper from three months ago???
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I would bet that an overwhelming number of MU fans had no problem with his comments whatsoever.
I would bet an overwhelming of MU fans don't even know who Larry Williams is, let alone are aware of his comments.
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The actual quote: "I expect Buzz back. Want him back. I think we started something good with him. . . . I'd be excited to help him grow as a coach."
That's a very different comment than saying, "I'm going to help Buzz be a better coach." I don't think you'd find a coach anywhere who doesn't think that he needs to grow as a coach. When Buzz reads books about coaching/leadership or talks with other coaches or other leaders, he's attempting to grow as a coach. Larry Williams is Buzz Williams' boss. If he's not trying to help Buzz grow in his role, then he never would have been hired.
Just by virtue of someone being appointed your boss, by no means does that necessarily mean they are the most/best qualified to help you grow - particularly in the coaching/A.D. relationship. You combine the above statements with saying your coach ties his tie too tight, to where his head is going to explode, or that he is going to irrevocably offend somebody - pardon me, but I don't feel those are particularly intelligent comments or ringing endorsements - to make to the local newspaper. Furthermore, it reeks of condescending, and almost fatherly...Buzz is a grown man...
and doesn't need to be told he ties his tie too tight or is going to offend someone irrevocably.
Buzz has a long history of great relationships with people, largely through the way he conducts himself. Last thought, what is wrong with Buzz's exuberance, passion, dancing antics, etc.? Kinda nice not having a cookie cutter in the box personality on the sidelines. Hell his dances - after the DJO putback dunk and the W.V. game got more national press than anything anyone in academia or administration have done in the last several years...Al McGuire sure was revered by many nationally and at MU, and he was far from cookie cutter and appropriate at all times.
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Just for fun, let's review the quote...
"He's an emotional guy, passionate guy, but if you're going to have long-term success, you have to channel that and control that. He was happy as a clam to dance across the court, but he didn't think about offending somebody else. But that is his passion and exuberance. He is either going to explode because his tie is on too tight or he's going to offend somebody that is irrevocable."
What did he say that wasn't true? What did he say that was "piling on?" What did he say that was unnecessary and inexplicable?
I'll save you the time. Nothing, nothing and nothing.
Sorry Stache, but we just don't see this the same way. As to:
1.True? Maybe, maybe not (seems a little over the top to me), but the "truth" of LW's statement was never my point.
2.Piling on? Buzz started apologizing 30 seconds after the dance and hadn't stopped. So, yeah.
3.Inexplicable? No, and I never said it was. Unnecessary? Most definitely. What was to be gained by publicly taking your coach to the woodshed over something that had been apologized for loudly and clearly? I'll save you the time. Nothing.
To go a step further, though, I would have had no problem with LW taking BW aside and offering his council or even a reprimand.To me, that's part of his job. But in all my years of following sports, I don't know that I've ever seen an AD put a coach down publicly over something he already had apologized for. I think there are good reasons for that.
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Ners, I'll be even more clear. The original idea for a battleship game came from MSU AD Mike Hollis. He teamed up with morale entertainment to launch the game. UNC was in the game and their AD is Bubba Cunningham, an ND alum. Larry being the smart guy that he is calls Bubba. Bubba tells him it's going to be an annual game to honor the military. Larry pleads with Bubba to put in a good word for MU next year. Bubba also involves fellow ND alum and OSU athletic director Gene Smith. Morale entertainment, Gene Smith and Larry Williams discuss the possibility of a 2012 game. When an agreement is reached, Larry hands over the reigns to Broeker to settle the date/ details.
Ners, have you ever talked to Larry. He's a very connected guy and very impressive. He made it clear at a luncheon he wants Buzz long term and sees MU as a perennial top ten team. Why don't you meet him instead of basing your opinion on some newspaper quote, a quote that I might add that was taken out of context. I have no interest in a pissing match I'm just here to share and learn info from others on the great program we all love.
Shaq - Why didn't these Notre Dame alums lobby Morale entertainment for Notre Dame to play in the aircraft carrier game?? Why would they prefer to help their boy Larry, and not their amazing alma mater, Notre Dame - much less help out a rival of Notre Dame - Marquette? Haven't met Larry. But just a few questions: Why would an A.D., not want Buzz Williams as its coach long term?? Does that really take any genius?
I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..I'm just pointing out a few oddities with regard to the story you tell. Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...
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Just by virtue of someone being appointed your boss, by no means does that necessarily mean they are the most/best qualified to help you grow - particularly in the coaching/A.D. relationship.
Where did LW suggest he was the "most/best qualified?"
Oh, he didn't.
Buzz is a grown man...
and doesn't need to be told he ties his tie too tight or is going to offend someone irrevocably.
Maybe he does.
Last thought, what is wrong with Buzz's exuberance, passion, dancing antics, etc.? Kinda nice not having a cookie cutter in the box personality on the sidelines. Hell his dances - after the DJO putback dunk and the W.V. game got more national press than anything anyone in academia or administration have done in the last several years...Al McGuire sure was revered by many nationally and at MU, and he was far from cookie cutter and appropriate at all times.
There's nothing wrong with exuberance and passion. Heck, I loved the dance. I also think he ought never do it again, which I think is LW's point. Do it once, and it's seen as the spontaneous exuberance of an offbeat personality. Do it again, and it's (correctly, IMO), seen as scripted douchebaggery and taunting.
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Shaq - Why didn't these Notre Dame alums lobby Morale entertainment for Notre Dame to play in the aircraft carrier game?? Why would they prefer to help their boy Larry, and not their amazing alma mater, Notre Dame - much less help out a rival of Notre Dame - Marquette? Haven't met Larry. But just a few questions: Why would an A.D., not want Buzz Williams as its coach long term?? Does that really take any genius?
I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..I'm just pointing out a few oddities with regard to the story you tell. Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...
All carrier games are comprised of Nike teams. ND is Adidas
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Shaq - Why didn't these Notre Dame alums lobby Morale entertainment for Notre Dame to play in the aircraft carrier game?? Why would they prefer to help their boy Larry, and not their amazing alma mater, Notre Dame - much less help out a rival of Notre Dame - Marquette? Haven't met Larry. But just a few questions: Why would an A.D., not want Buzz Williams as its coach long term?? Does that really take any genius?
I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..I'm just pointing out a few oddities with regard to the story you tell. Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...
You haven't met the guy, yet know him well enough to determine he goes around telling big fat lies to feed his large ego.
I can't believe anyone thinks you're being unreasonable here.
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Shaq - Why didn't these Notre Dame alums lobby Morale entertainment for Notre Dame to play in the aircraft carrier game?? Why would they prefer to help their boy Larry, and not their amazing alma mater, Notre Dame - much less help out a rival of Notre Dame - Marquette? Haven't met Larry. But just a few questions: Why would an A.D., not want Buzz Williams as its coach long term?? Does that really take any genius?
I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..I'm just pointing out a few oddities with regard to the story you tell. Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...
I stand by my comments. Why dont you call Broeker and ask him about it? I knew you never met him. Your credibility is zero. You are entitled to your opinion about Larry, but when you are spewing fallacies I felt the need to set the record straight. As the game nears you might even get to read about the actual details.
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I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..
::)
Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...
You admit you never met the man...never spoken with him...yet you are saying this based upon a few quotes in a newspaper? Do you think that is how Buzz instructs his players to judge people?
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I stand by my comments. Why dont you call Broeker and ask him about it? I knew you never met him. Your credibility is zero. You are entitled to your opinion about Larry, but when you are spewing fallacies I felt the need to set the record straight. As the game nears you might even get to read about the actual details.
Fair enough Shaq - and appreciate your input as to how the game came to be. Just for a little more context and background, can you share with the board, how you came to learn of how things went down with getting MU in this game? Was it at the luncheon you mentioned? A personal one on one conversation with Larry Williams? A friend told you? Etc.
I apologize for spewing fallacies, and commend Larry Williams for getting the aircraft carrier game done..if in fact he is the catalyst for MU's involvement in the game.
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Question---Does MU really spend a lot of money or does Dick Strong spend a lot of money? Very easy to have big budget if money is given and has to be spent on men's basketball.
Just about every big time program has a sugar daddy. Nothing wrong with that.
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Ners,
I don't want to sound condescending, but you seem to have a Buzz vs Larry thing going on where anybody giving some credit to Larry means they don't like Buzz.
I don't think anybody has implied that or believes that, but that seems to be the source of your angst this off season.
Larry might be an absolute pretty boy and terrible at his job. He might run Buzz off and push MU back to the stone ages. It is entirely possible, I'm serious. I really don't know what is going to happen. I don't know the guy.
But, I don't think we can live in fear simply because we don't know.
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Sorry Stache, but we just don't see this the same way. As to:
1.True? Maybe, maybe not (seems a little over the top to me), but the "truth" of LW's statement was never my point.
That is the answer. You, ners, AtWiz and a few others see it one way and everyone else sees it as nothing at all. You are the 1%ers.
I just wished he would have clarified publicly that his (very public) remarks were misconstrued rather than sharing it in private. I just think that when you step in it in public you also make amends there.
There are only a very few of you that actually think he stepped in anything, let alone needed to make amends. Exactly what is he making amends for? He didn't say anything wrong, and certainly nothing out of the ordinary for a superior to subordinate. You are right that people don't see it like you do, almost no one does except for a select group that seems to be on tilt mode when it comes to Buzz and comments about him, good or bad. What is it in LW's history that leads you to jump to the worst case scenario about him?
And you failed to mention the first quote in the article - the part where LW "looks forward to helping Buzz become a better coach."
Not what LW said, first of all. Second, anyone can make another person better in their job even if they aren't in that profession. Haven't you ever read John Wooden's books or any number of other famous coaches who go into detail about how other people made them a BETTER COACH even those people weren't coaches. Come on nears, people of all walks of life can help people do their jobs better, become better human beings. Has your wife ever helped you be better in your job? Do you think Corey hasn't helped Buzz? She's not a coach, so how is this possible? ::) The attacks on LW from you and Lenny seem personal, like when a high school guy sees his girlfriend get hit on, the jealousy kicks in.
I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..I'm just pointing out a few oddities with regard to the story you tell. Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...
Now LW is a liar? Did you get this from the email Buzz sent you? ::) How many minutes or even hours of your life have you spent with LW to make this ascertion?
You should stop, you are in way over your head and repeatedly being taken to the woodshed here by other posters isn't helping your cause at all. You have a crush on Buzz, that is great. It doesn't mean the world is against him and it doesn't mean he can't become a better person, better coach with help from his boss, his President, his players, alumni or anyone else. He doesn't walk on water.
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Ners,
I don't want to sound condescending, but you seem to have a Buzz vs Larry thing going on where anybody giving some credit to Larry means they don't like Buzz.
I don't think anybody has implied that or believes that, but that seems to be the source of your angst this off season.
Larry might be an absolute pretty boy and terrible at his job. He might run Buzz off and push MU back to the stone ages. It is entirely possible, I'm serious. I really don't know what is going to happen. I don't know the guy.
But, I don't think we can live in fear simply because we don't know.
The source of my angst is simply that Buzz went from very happy at MU in April of 2011, to not so happy April 2012. Buzz gave the SMU job serious consideration.
As I wrote earlier, if Larry brokered and secured the aircraft carrier game - he deserves a lot of credit for that and I applaud him...so I don't look at it as though you can only compliment Buzz or Larry. As Buzz always says - you get what you earn. My personal feeling was Larry's comments to the Journal earned him the crap he's gotten from those of us who found the remarks inappropriate. On the converse, he deserves credit for the aircraft carrier game if he is the sole driving force behind that.
I do hope the relationship between Buzz and Larry grows and that things improve - which they always can....Larry pulling some strings and getting some big time exposure for the program certainly would help.
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As I wrote earlier, if Larry brokered and secured the aircraft carrier game - he deserves a lot of credit for that and I applaud him...so I don't look at it as though you can only compliment Buzz or Larry. As Buzz always says - you get what you earn. My personal feeling was Larry's comments to the Journal earned him the crap he's gotten from those of us who found the remarks inappropriate. On the converse, he deserves credit for the aircraft carrier game if he is the sole driving force behind that.
This is great, but no offense, you had to be bullied into this by several posters. Remember this? http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32762.msg397829#msg397829 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32762.msg397829#msg397829)
I get that you are passionate about Buzz. But, you seem to put a lot of energy into discrediting Larry Williams. It's carried into other threads, like this one: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32773.msg398121#msg398121 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32773.msg398121#msg398121)
If you think Larry should be fired, then maybe it's better to start a FIRE LARRY thread. You might get a better response if you lay out your "case" in one thread/post. Honestly, right now, most of your posts seem to come with common theme that Larry Williams is a bad for MU, and it's getting weird.
You MIGHT be 100% right, but I don't know if repeating it over and over again is going to convince anybody.
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Shaq - Why didn't these Notre Dame alums lobby Morale entertainment for Notre Dame to play in the aircraft carrier game??
Because they don't work for Notre Dame.
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This is great, but no offense, you had to be bullied into this by several posters. Remember this? http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32762.msg397829#msg397829 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32762.msg397829#msg397829)
I get that you are passionate about Buzz. But, you seem to put a lot of energy into discrediting Larry Williams. It's carried into other threads, like this one: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32773.msg398121#msg398121 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32773.msg398121#msg398121)
If you think Larry should be fired, then maybe it's better to start a FIRE LARRY thread. You might get a better response if you lay out your "case" in one thread/post. Honestly, right now, most of your posts seem to come with common theme that Larry Williams is a bad for MU, and it's getting weird.
You MIGHT be 100% right, but I don't know if repeating it over and over again is going to convince anybody.
Uh...okay? So, I'm consistent in my views, which have generally been negative toward Larry Williams - big deal? Shaquilvaine made a statement in this thread that suggests Larry Williams was solely responsible for the aircraft carrier game - and taking Shaq at his word after a few exchanges - I give Larry credit.
I mean WTF do you want from me 2002?? I give Larry Williams credit based on Shaq definitively stating the knowledge as to how the MU-OSU game came to be - but because I had to be "bullied" into it...it isn't good enough for you? Seriously? I forget to add you to my earlier list of posters here who I could give two craps about what they think of me...
Your passive aggressive posting content is really clever. Do you ever take a position on any side of an issue? You seem to make post after post riding the middle, and stating things like - you might be right, I don't know, but, dot dot dot...Weigh in on something for once.
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The source of my angst is simply that Buzz went from very happy at MU in April of 2011, to not so happy April 2012. Buzz gave the SMU job serious consideration.
Anytime you want to provide any direct evidence, other than captain bumpy ride/more than a rumor IWB's "Please come to my site, and check out this unsourced, no-quotes containing, skidmark, that I'll try to masquerade as tea leaves/Rorschach blot #pageviews #pageviews #pageviews" article?, be my guest. Until then, it's garbage, along with your totally real email from Buzz.
Ners,
I don't want to sound condescending,
It's not condescending when someone is legitimately more uninformed/dumber than you.
Sadly, I'd almost like to see Buzz leave MU at this point just to see what would happen to the program
I'm sure you would, along with the rest of your bleeding martyr/self-flagellating/"we're bigger fans of MUBB than all of you"/fart sniffing bretheren, of which, thankfully, there are very few. Although I'm sure you'd immediately sport stigmatas shaped like the MU logo if this happened, BECAUSE YOU LOVE MU BASKETBALL MORE THAN ALL OF US.
Thanks for the toddler-esque tantrums--now go f*** off.
I'm DEEPLY sorry (FOR YOU) this summer has been the smashing success of landed, big time recruits, great scheduling, and Buzz enjoying being in complete control, and saying as much, publicly. Sure looks like LW and Pilarz plans to destroy MUBB have totally been thwarted! That, or, alternatively, the program is firing on all cylinders, which must be HEARTBREAKING.
Like most insane people, though, when the hole you've dug is seemingly deep enough, KEEP GOING. BY ALL MEANS, KEEP GOING! Lord knows, bulls*** won't shovel itself.
I know I'm sure entertained by your foaming at the mouth, irrational hatred of Larry Williams, contrary to ALL available evidence (that aren't made up emails and two quotes taken out of context MONTHS AGO)... BUT DO GO ON. Rage against the dying of the night, already.
Fair enough Shaq - and appreciate your input as to how the game came to be. Just for a little more context and background, can you share with the board, how you came to learn of how things went down with getting MU in this game? Was it at the luncheon you mentioned? A personal one on one conversation with Larry Williams? A friend told you? Etc.
I apologize for spewing fallacies, and commend Larry Williams for getting the aircraft carrier game done..if in fact he is the catalyst for MU's involvement in the game.
HAHAHAHA, that's sure rich, asking Shaq to actually share MORE of his info (unlike you, and some of the other doom-mongering cowards). Nice hustle.
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Uh...okay? So, I'm consistent in my views, which have generally been negative toward Larry Williams - big deal? Shaquilvaine made a statement in this thread that suggests Larry Williams was solely responsible for the aircraft carrier game - and taking Shaq at his word after a few exchanges - I give Larry credit.
I mean WTF do you want from me 2002?? I give Larry Williams credit based on Shaq definitively stating the knowledge as to how the MU-OSU game came to be - but because I had to be "bullied" into it...it isn't good enough for you? Seriously? I forget to add you to my earlier list of posters here who I could give two craps about what they think of me...
Your passive aggressive posting content is really clever. Do you ever take a position on any side of an issue? You seem to make post after post riding the middle, and stating things like - you might be right, I don't know, but, dot dot dot...Weigh in on something for once.
Generally, I disagree with you on everything. But, I don't have enough intimate knowledge of this situation to come out and say that you are wrong.
Larry really might be bad for MU. I don't really know. I don't have insider info.
That's not passive aggressive. That's just the truth.
We can all talk and share views without polarizing every topic, can't we? It's ok to say "I don't know".
As far as what I want:
Shaq shared some information and instead of you saying something like "interesting, I didn't know that", you have to get beaten over the head by several posters until you finally relent. Again, it's ok to say "I don't know", or even "I didn't know".
Not everything has to be a RAGING debate, dude. We're not out to get you. We're not out to get Buzz. We're just sharing information and opinions. Same team, bro.
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Ners - Maybe we can save a bit of time and you can share what would need to happen with the program to alleviate your fears about Pilarz and/or LW?
So far the offseason has been pretty much 100% positive news for MUBB.
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Anytime you want to provide any direct evidence, other than captain bumpy ride/more than a rumor IWB's "Please come to my site, and check out this unsourced, no-quotes containing, skidmark, that I'll try to masquerade as tea leaves/Rorschach blot #pageviews #pageviews #pageviews" article?, be my guest. Until then, it's garbage, along with your totally real email from Buzz.
It's not condescending when someone is legitimately more uninformed/dumber than you.
I'm sure you would, along with the rest of your bleeding martyr/self-flagellating/"we're bigger fans of MUBB than all of you"/fart sniffing bretheren, of which, thankfully, there are very few. Although I'm sure you'd immediately sport stigmatas shaped like the MU logo if this happened, BECAUSE YOU LOVE MU BASKETBALL MORE THAN ALL OF US.
Thanks for the toddler-esque tantrums--now go f*** off.
I'm DEEPLY sorry (FOR YOU) this summer has been the smashing success of landed, big time recruits, great scheduling, and Buzz enjoying being in complete control, and saying as much, publicly. Sure looks like LW and Pilarz plans to destroy MUBB have totally been thwarted! That, or, alternatively, the program is firing on all cylinders, which must be HEARTBREAKING.
Like most insane people, though, when the hole you've dug is seemingly deep enough, KEEP GOING. BY ALL MEANS, KEEP GOING! Lord knows, bulls*** won't shovel itself.
I know I'm sure entertained by your foaming at the mouth, irrational hatred of Larry Williams, contrary to ALL available evidence (that aren't made up emails and two quotes taken out of context MONTHS AGO)... BUT DO GO ON. Rage against the dying of the night, already.
HAHAHAHA, that's sure rich, asking Shaq to actually share MORE of his info (unlike you, and some of the other doom-mongering cowards). Nice hustle.
And who are your sources Lab? What inside information have you brought to this board? Do you interview MU players, attend practices, on a first name basis with all the coaching staff/players? You want to dog IWB - but please regal all of us and tell us how you know more than IWB?
The height of ignorance and stupidity is thinking (and telling everyone) you are smarter than everyone else, when in reality you are just an arrogant, pompous, prick - with little to offer other than condescending crap. On that note why would I forward the e-mail I got from Buzz to an asshat like you..or anyone else for that matter? Funny thing is I know* I got a personal e-mail from Buzz...and you and your cynical, skeptical, uninformed, ignorant self - think* I didn't. I don't really give 2 craps what a cynic and skeptic like you chooses to believe. I know what I know - and you, well, you don't know jack. You dismiss the closest insider that posts on boards - IWB - as some conspiracy theory and attempt to drive traffic to his site. But please, go ahead, Captain Awesome - tell all of us how you know so much more about the intimate details for the MU program than IWB. On another note, the quotes from Larry Williams, were quote, published, for all to see - some want to dismiss as no big deal, others can see they were at best ill-conceived, and at worst down right stupid.
The irony of all of this is that you are so pleased with the direction of the program, this summer's recruiting results etc., - all of which are largely the work of Buzz Williams. I don't claim to be a bigger fan of the program than others - but yes - I've long been a bigger fan of Buzz Williams than many around here. Took a lot of bullets and crap for being pro-Buzz along the way, but sadly, many who chose to fire those bullets - people like yourself - now look like complete idiots in that Buzz has the MU program on the threshold of sustained greatness not seen since Al McGuire. So yeah...I care if his new boss comes in and makes some condescending statements to the media, that only a condescending prick like you would appreciate or dismiss.
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And...just for further reading on the topic - once it was announced Buzz was staying....notice Larry Williams mentioned "year," not "years."
"Coach Williams is a good man, great coach, and I look forward to working with him in the coming year," said Larry Williams. "As we move forward, we want to make sure we stay focused on the rich history and core values that underpin this very unique program."
The school said that the coach and athletic director would not comment further.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/williams-says-hes-staying-put-at-mu-mn4p15e-144480855.html
Gee - wonder why the school said the coach and A.D. would not comment further?? Think there wouldn't be shackles put on either coach or A.D., to comment further when at most universities when a highly regarded coach chooses to stay/renew there is a celebration/elation of sorts. This was tepid at best.
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Ners, that didn't seem right to me and it looks as though the JS had a typo. Here is the official press-release and it says "years."
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032712aac.html
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And...just for further reading on the topic - once it was announced Buzz was staying....notice Larry Williams mentioned "year," not "years."
"Coach Williams is a good man, great coach, and I look forward to working with him in the coming year," said Larry Williams. "As we move forward, we want to make sure we stay focused on the rich history and core values that underpin this very unique program."
The school said that the coach and athletic director would not comment further.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/williams-says-hes-staying-put-at-mu-mn4p15e-144480855.html
Gee - wonder why the school said the coach and A.D. would not comment further?? Think there wouldn't be shackles put on either coach or A.D., to comment further when at most universities when a highly regarded coach chooses to stay/renew there is a celebration/elation of sorts. This was tepid at best.
My advice, which you're very unlikely to take: If you don't like the tin-foil label, stop trying to hard to squeeze that silvery hat atop your head.
You've somehow managed to move beyond parsing words to fit your anti-LW agenda, to parsing individual letters. Wrongly, it seems (nice work, Sultan).
Though it's good to know that anyone who doesn't share your opinion is a "condescending prick."
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And who are your sources Lab? What inside information have you brought to this board? Do you interview MU players, attend practices, on a first name basis with all the coaching staff/players? You want to dog IWB - but please regal all of us and tell us how you know more than IWB?
The height of ignorance and stupidity is thinking (and telling everyone) you are smarter than everyone else, when in reality you are just an arrogant, pompous, prick - with little to offer other than condescending crap. On that note why would I forward the e-mail I got from Buzz to an asshat like you..or anyone else for that matter? Funny thing is I know* I got a personal e-mail from Buzz...and you and your cynical, skeptical, uninformed, ignorant self - think* I didn't. I don't really give 2 craps what a cynic and skeptic like you chooses to believe. I know what I know - and you, well, you don't know jack. You dismiss the closest insider that posts on boards - IWB - as some conspiracy theory and attempt to drive traffic to his site. But please, go ahead, Captain Awesome - tell all of us how you know so much more about the intimate details for the MU program than IWB. On another note, the quotes from Larry Williams, were quote, published, for all to see - some want to dismiss as no big deal, others can see they were at best ill-conceived, and at worst down right stupid.
The irony of all of this is that you are so pleased with the direction of the program, this summer's recruiting results etc., - all of which are largely the work of Buzz Williams. I don't claim to be a bigger fan of the program than others - but yes - I've long been a bigger fan of Buzz Williams than many around here. Took a lot of bullets and crap for being pro-Buzz along the way, but sadly, many who chose to fire those bullets - people like yourself - now look like complete idiots in that Buzz has the MU program on the threshold of sustained greatness not seen since Al McGuire. So yeah...I care if his new boss comes in and makes some condescending statements to the media, that only a condescending prick like you would appreciate or dismiss.
Let it go, dude, its the internet.
But really, no one cares. Literally, not one person.
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My advice, which you're very unlikely to take: If you don't like the tin-foil label, stop trying to hard to squeeze that silvery hat atop your head.
You've somehow managed to move beyond parsing words to fit your anti-LW agenda, to parsing individual letters. Wrongly, it seems (nice work, Sultan).
Though it's good to know that anyone who doesn't share your opinion is a "condescending prick."
My advice - Click the link I furnished to the JSOnline article, and notice it wasn't me who parsed the letter..apparently a JS typo.
And honestly, I'm completely fine with the tin foil label - really don't care. But I would be curious to get your thoughts as to why the university indicated Buzz and Larry wouldn't have any further comment? Do you feel that under Buzz, MU hadn't stayed focused on the rich history and core values that underpin this very unique program? I mean after all, Larry wants to make sure that as we move forward we stay focused on the rich history and core values...
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My advice - Click the link I furnished to the JSOnline article, and notice it wasn't me who parsed the letter..apparently a JS typo.
And honestly, I'm completely fine with the tin foil label - really don't care. But I would be curious to get your thoughts as to why the university indicated Buzz and Larry wouldn't have any further comment? Do you feel that under Buzz, MU hadn't stayed focused on the rich history and core values that underpin this very unique program? I mean after all, Larry wants to make sure that as we move forward we stay focused on the rich history and core values...
Besides the fact that there wasn't anything else to say?
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I've long been a bigger fan of Buzz Williams than many around here. Took a lot of bullets and crap for being pro-Buzz along the way, but sadly, many who chose to fire those bullets - people like yourself - now look like complete idiots in that Buzz has the MU program on the threshold of sustained greatness not seen since Al McGuire.
Tilting at Windmills.
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My advice - Click the link I furnished to the JSOnline article, and notice it wasn't me who parsed the letter..apparently a JS typo.
And honestly, I'm completely fine with the tin foil label - really don't care. But I would be curious to get your thoughts as to why the university indicated Buzz and Larry wouldn't have any further comment? Do you feel that under Buzz, MU hadn't stayed focused on the rich history and core values that underpin this very unique program? I mean after all, Larry wants to make sure that as we move forward we stay focused on the rich history and core values...
Because when you issue a press release in response to wide-spread rumors about your coach leaving, it's fairly common to basically say, "and this is all we're going to say about this." It's a way of saying that they've get better and more important things to be doing.
By the way, I think that you use the exact same approach whether or not the rumors were true. In other words, in making this post, I'm not trying to enter into the debate of whether or not Buzz was looking to leave. It's an innocuous statement, and one that I would expect to be in any press release that is being sent out for the sole purpose of trying to stop a rumor.
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Besides the fact that there wasn't anything else to say?
What he said.
In general, it's never wise to respond publicly to rumors. Hasn't that been Buzz's policy since he arrived? Are you saying Buzz is wrong to go about things that way?
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Besides the fact that there wasn't anything else to say?
Yep...and it is also a subtle way of saying "don't bring it up again" to whomever covers the team.
Now please leave me alone...black helicopters are on the horizon and I have to go back to building my bunker.
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Gets old debating 1 on 5...agree to disagree.....all was not well between Buzz and Larry after WVU. But obviously there's no convincing some of you who choose to say because Buzz is still here, has a good recruiting class coming in, and that we brought in 1 strong assistant coach and director of basketball operations - that all is well. Certainly don't know what things were agreed to as Buzz's flirtation with SMU took place. A poker game of sorts.
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j293/Homebrew101/89321413.gif)
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Ners
You are right on target. What is Buzz supposed to do, even if still pissed, stop recruiting? Buzz is a recruiter first and his paycheck is based off that skill. Even if he leaves in a year the process of recruiting still needs to be in place. I am off the charts excited about the recruiting year but not convinced on long term Buzz/MU relationship. I think if Strong and LW have good relationship it will help with Buzz.
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The better our recruiting classes the more optimistic I am that it would take an actual elite school to get Buzz away from that hard work. Regardless if he does or doesn't get along with LW or new policies.
Thank goodness the Milwaukee recruiting gravy train is picking up speed!
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Ners
You are right on target. What is Buzz supposed to do, even if still pissed, stop recruiting? Buzz is a recruiter first and his paycheck is based off that skill. Even if he leaves in a year the process of recruiting still needs to be in place. I am off the charts excited about the recruiting year but not convinced on long term Buzz/MU relationship. I think if Strong and LW have good relationship it will help with Buzz.
If he's still *THAT* pissed, and he feels the relationship is unworkable, I expect he would have taken a new job. There were plenty of them available this spring.
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Stone Cold
I am with you on the better the team the harder to leave thought process. I hope he keeps improving the team and feels it is best to stay.
Rubie
Big assumption. Maybe mutual decision between MU and Buzz on why next year is better departure date. I would not assume just because he stayed means he is staying. Hope he is but a lot can happen
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Gets old debating 1 on 5...agree to disagree.....all was not well between Buzz and Larry after WVU. But obviously there's no convincing some of you who choose to say because Buzz is still here, has a good recruiting class coming in, and that we brought in 1 strong assistant coach and director of basketball operations - that all is well. Certainly don't know what things were agreed to as Buzz's flirtation with SMU took place. A poker game of sorts.
The Buzz-Larry relationship was so toxic at that point that when the final buzzer sounded on that game, Buzz immediately sought out Larry and they enthusiastically slapped several fives.
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If he's still *THAT* pissed, and he feels the relationship is unworkable, I expect he would have taken a new job. There were plenty of them available this spring.
If it were OU, Arkansas or A&M, like the previous year...Buzz was gone....this was SMU...SMU...and they were given serious consideration. Hopefully things are on the mend and that over the next year the relationship improves - which of course, relationships can improve - after a shaky start.
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If it were OU, Arkansas or A&M, like the previous year...Buzz was gone....this was SMU...SMU...and they were given serious consideration. Hopefully things are on the mend and that over the next year the relationship improves - which of course, relationships can improve - after a shaky start.
SMU wasn't the only school that had a job opening. What about LSU, Va Tech, Illinois?
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The Buzz-Larry relationship was so toxic at that point that when the final buzzer sounded on that game, Buzz immediately sought out Larry and they enthusiastically slapped several fives.
Uh oh..now we are coming to conclusions based on people slapping fives...which has been ridiculed on this board before. Just like those who felt Vander Blue ignoring his teammate repeatedly was no big deal, can we really read that much into guys slapping fives? Perhaps a little pent up emotion...after Buzz had to suspend 4 of his guys for that game. Any idea who ordered those suspensions? Find it at all odd that not 1 time in Buzz's first 3 years as coach did he suspend a player (other than permanently benching Hazel for his transgression)- yet ironically in year 4 when the new regime arrives....we have multiple suspensions?
And sorry Pakuni...Mr. Nitpick detail guy - was referring to the aftermath of the WVU game...notably the dance..which LW felt necessary to comment in in JS as Buzz being "happy as a clam" to dance across the court...
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If it were OU, Arkansas or A&M, like the previous year...Buzz was gone....this was SMU...SMU...and they were given serious consideration. Hopefully things are on the mend and that over the next year the relationship improves - which of course, relationships can improve - after a shaky start.
Did Buzz email you this as well?
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.
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SMU wasn't the only school that had a job opening. What about LSU, Va Tech, Illinois?
And Kansas State, South Carolina and Mississippi State.
Plus, let's not forget the colors of Buzz's garage. That job was open also.
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None of the schools mentioned have any family ties for Buzz and family...Buzz has 5 years and ties now in MKE - there are ties in Oklahoma, Arkansas, and A&M.
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None of the schools mentioned have any family ties for Buzz and family...Buzz has 5 years and ties now in MKE - there are ties in Oklahoma, Arkansas, and A&M.
What ties does he have in Arkansas or Oklahoma?
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What ties does he have in Arkansas or Oklahoma?
Isn't his wife from Oklahoma?
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Isn't his wife from Oklahoma?
No. She's from Texas.
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With the level of talent locally his ties should be in Milwaukee for next five years or so.
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No. She's from Texas.
From Amarillo..but family ties in OKC
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OK...so let me get this straight. Buzz would have gone to Oklahoma (because his wife has family ties there) and he would have gone to Arkansas (apparently because it borders both Texas and Oklahoma) but he was too happy to leave Milwaukee. But this year he WOULD have taken those jobs, but just not jobs in Kansas or Mississippi because those are apparently too far away from Oklahoma or Texas. (Even though Manhattan, KS is only 70 miles further away from OKC than Fayetteville, AR is.)
So does this "Buzz Happiness/Mileage Graph-O-Meter" exist anywhere besides your head?
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I would like to say I have enjoyed this thread immensely. Ners should change his name to grave digger. He'll be in China soon. LOL.
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OK...so let me get this straight. Buzz would have gone to Oklahoma (because his wife has family ties there) and he would have gone to Arkansas (apparently because it borders both Texas and Oklahoma) but he was too happy to leave Milwaukee. But this year he WOULD have taken those jobs, but just not jobs in Kansas or Mississippi because those are apparently too far away from Oklahoma or Texas. (Even though Manhattan, KS is only 70 miles further away from OKC than Fayetteville, AR is.)
So does this "Buzz Happiness/Mileage Graph-O-Meter" exist anywhere besides your head?
Uhh..do you know where Buzz went to college? In OKC, right? Would it be so odd for an MU alum to leave MKE and decide to return...to essentially coach the biggest program in the state? K-State and Mississippi aren't exactly on par with Arkansas - ever heard of Sam Walton and the Walton family??
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Uhh..do you know where Buzz went to college? In OKC, right? Would it be so odd for an MU alum to leave MKE and decide to return...to essentially coach the biggest program in the state? K-State and Mississippi aren't exactly on par with Arkansas - ever heard of Sam Walton and the Walton family??
Ever hear of "confirmation bias?"
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Uhh..do you know where Buzz went to college? In OKC, right? Would it be so odd for an MU alum to leave MKE and decide to return...to essentially coach the biggest program in the state? K-State and Mississippi aren't exactly on par with Arkansas - ever heard of Sam Walton and the Walton family??
Here is what will make Buzz eventually leave, the Milwaukee winters.
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Uhh..do you know where Buzz went to college? In OKC, right? Would it be so odd for an MU alum to leave MKE and decide to return...to essentially coach the biggest program in the state? K-State and Mississippi aren't exactly on par with Arkansas - ever heard of Sam Walton and the Walton family??
So, Buzz's tie to the University of Arkansas is that he shops at Wal-Mart?
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So, Buzz's tie to the University of Arkansas is that he shops at Wal-Mart?
buzz is more of a big lots kinda cat.
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Here is what will make Buzz eventually leave, the Milwaukee winters.
God went to Notre Dame (at least according to ND fans/alums) so it will be LW using his connections with this fellow ND alum to make sure Milwaukee has some harsh winters the next few years to drive Buzz away.
Hey, it makes as much sense as some of what Ners is spewing, doesn't it?
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I would like to say I have enjoyed this thread immensely. Ners should change his name to grave digger. He'll be in China soon. LOL.
How's tricks on Elba?
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Uhh..do you know where Buzz went to college? In OKC, right? Would it be so odd for an MU alum to leave MKE and decide to return...to essentially coach the biggest program in the state? K-State and Mississippi aren't exactly on par with Arkansas - ever heard of Sam Walton and the Walton family??
Buzz strikes me as a basketball program guy, not a second fiddle guy at a football school. If Buzz leaves, I have to think he goes to a dominant basketball program.
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Buzz strikes me as a basketball program guy, not a second fiddle guy at a football school. If Buzz leaves, I have to think he goes to a dominant basketball program.
I am only speaking theoretically here, because I don't think Buzz plans on going anywhere:
I am not sure that Buzz would care about being second-fiddle to football as long as the school gives the BB program everything he feels it needs (including money and fan support). I don't think he has that kind of ego.
KO, on the other hand, did have that kind of ego, and I knew the minute he announced he was going to Tennessee that he would not be happy there.
Also, don't forget that being from Texas, he completely understands football-mad people. The high schools sell PSLs down there, for chrissake. As a kid, he was probably a huge football fan himself. You don't grow up in Texas with any sort of interest in sports and avoid that.
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Buzz shops at Gucci and Armani these days. Only way he stops at Walmart is to use a bathroom in emergency.
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8 Stupid Arguments That Internet Debates Always Devolve Into (http://www.cracked.com/blog/8-stupid-arguments-that-internet-debates-always-devolve-into_p1/)
This thread is one of the more moderate exchanges here and by my count hit 5 maybe 6 of these
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8 Stupid Arguments That Internet Debates Always Devolve Into (http://www.cracked.com/blog/8-stupid-arguments-that-internet-debates-always-devolve-into_p1/)
This thread is one of the more moderate exchanges here and by my count hit 5 maybe 6 of these
That's a mediocre list. #1 should always be comparing your opponent to the nazis or hitler :)
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Bump.
Just cause. This thread was awesome.