Gardner

[tower912]

We have kind of alluded to him in other threads, so I thought I would start one devoted to him.   I think he is the most polished offensive big we have had in some times.   Buzz was right about his hands and his footwork.  Amazing for a freshman.   He passes out of double teams and knows how to use his body to force his way to the basket.   Great touch, too.
    Defensively, not so much.   It looks to me that in high school, his coach looked at him and decided that the best way to win games and keep DG on the floor was to play a 2-3 zone with DG in the middle just kind of wandering around taking up space, blocking shots when a player came through and getting rebounds in his area.   His post defense is poor because he doesn't use his mass/strength to leverage opposing bigs. His footwork is lazy; he doesn't fight to get around and 3/4 guard the opposing big and then he is slow to rotate when the ball is reversed.   All correctable.     But when added to his conditioning, it is easy to see why he is only a 12-15 mpg player.   
     But manoman when he gets the rest of the way in shape and his defense becomes adequate......

[MarquetteDano]

I think it is going to take some time for his defense to come around.  May take by Junior year for that.  However, if he could just improve his defensive rebounding he wouldn't be such a liability on defense.  It is one thing to allow other big men good post position and be slow on help defense.  It is a whole another animal that he is letting teams get two, three chances after a missed shot.  He has too good of hands not to be a good defensive rebounder.

Listen to those coaches on your rebounding big fella!  Then you will be a major asset to this team.

[downtown85]

We have kind of alluded to him in other threads, so I thought I would start one devoted to him.   I think he is the most polished offensive big we have had in some times.   Buzz was right about his hands and his footwork.  Amazing for a freshman.   He passes out of double teams and knows how to use his body to force his way to the basket.   Great touch, too.
    Defensively, not so much.   It looks to me that in high school, his coach looked at him and decided that the best way to win games and keep DG on the floor was to play a 2-3 zone with DG in the middle just kind of wandering around taking up space, blocking shots when a player came through and getting rebounds in his area.   His post defense is poor because he doesn't use his mass/strength to leverage opposing bigs. His footwork is lazy; he doesn't fight to get around and 3/4 guard the opposing big and then he is slow to rotate when the ball is reversed.   All correctable.     But when added to his conditioning, it is easy to see why he is only a 12-15 mpg player.   
     But manoman when he gets the rest of the way in shape and his defense becomes adequate......

Add to the fact that he doesn't put his body on the player he is guarding when the shot goes up, therefore he is a relatively poor defensive rebounder.  I've watched it numerous times, his player runs and jumps unimpeded to make an offensive board.  He just needs to position himself between the basket and the player he is guarding once the shot goes up.  

[downtown85]

Dano, great minds think alike! 

[Freeport Warrior]

Add to the fact that he doesn't put his body on the player he is guarding when the shot goes up, therefore he is a relatively poor defensive rebounder.  

He did a good job of this last night in limited time. The lack of boxing out has been a glaring deficiency with this team in general. So, last night at the game I focused on Gardner when he was in. He was the only guy who consistently found his man when the shot went up, then put a body on him. I said a couple times to my son, "see how Gardner is getting into his guy's body every time the shot goes up." And then there was Otule. He has the worst hands I can ever recall. One time last night he went up for the ball and it softly went through his hands and bounced off his face.

I hope Buzz's substitution pattern eventually slows down. Gardner should be in the game as much as his conditioning allows. I think he can dominate on the offensive side when the other team doesn't have an absolute stud at the 5. Plus, he's setting up those wide open looks for 3s. And as far as his D, it's not that bad and he's a beast to move.

[downtown85]

He did a good job of this last night in limited time. The lack of boxing out has been a glaring deficiency with this team in general. So, last night at the game I focused on Gardner when he was in. He was the only guy who consistently found his man when the shot went up, then put a body on him. I said a couple times to my son, "see how Gardner is getting into his guy's body every time the shot goes up." And then there was Otule. He has the worst hands I can ever recall. One time last night he went up for the ball and it softly went through his hands and bounced off his face.

I am glad to hear it.  I didn't see the game last night but watched every other one that Gardner played.  If he keeps it up that's great.

[Stretchdeltsig]

I agree with Freeport Willie.  I watched Gardner play tough underneath.  I think we are a better team with Gardner playing the 5.  He has excellent low post moves and his hands are really good.  My question is... after several months of conditioning why is his conditioning still suspect?  He's not a 40 year old man, he should be "conditioned" to play basketball now.

[kmwtrucks]

You cannot go from being 300 lbs and could probably run a 5 minute 1/2 mile to 280 and 3 minute 1/2  minute mile in 3-4 months.  Once you get in really good shape once in your life it comes back quick.  I don't think he was ever been in good shape due to his weight.  So he is building, not trying to get back where he was at before, which is very different.

[Canadian Dimes]

3.5 minute mile...???  where is the next summer olympics?   i dont think Gardner has ever seen a 5.5 minute mile for that matter. 

[Stretchdeltsig]

Gardner had to be in pretty good shape to play well enough to be all state first team!  With MU's highly regarded conditioning coach and the strenuous work outs, you would think the fat would quickly melt off and be replaced with good muscle.  Gardner looks like he can play at a high level and will get better in direct proportion to his conditioning improvement.

[NotAnAlum]

Another thing about DG's hands.  Our guards have thown some pretty poor entry passes to him.  Down at his feet, to the side the defense was guarding.  I'm impressed that he comes up with 50% of these.  If we had Travis or Dominic passing to him he'd never miss a pass.
His curl move sometimes gets a little predictable (he was cleanly stripped late in the game on one post move)
AND the guy hits his free throws.
At any other program DG would be the future, playing behind an upperclass center.  Here he has to be the present and the future.  That said the future at the 5 spot is brighter than it has been in many years at MU.

[chren21]

3.5 minute mile...???  where is the next summer olympics?   i dont think Gardner has ever seen a 5.5 minute mile for that matter. 

Think he meant a 1/2 mile.  It was confusing but has to be what was meant.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Our PG's need to learn to feed the post based upon who is in the game.  Otule has to play above the rim to be effective.  A bounce pass into him is not effective as you made a 6'11" center a not very talented guard who cannot protect the ball.  Junior plays better with Otule as he feeds Chris up high.  Same on defense where Chris is a great shot blocker vs. post defender.  Chris would be more effective on defense if Buzz played a zone with CO in the game.  

Gardner plays better below the rim based on his jumping ability and vacuum hands.  Reggie or Dwight are more effective feeding him off the bounce pass for the kick-out or the patented Ox spin move.  Putting the bounce pass lower enables Gardner for that little step where he hooks his defender vs. a typical banger in the post these bigs are used to.  He uses his bottom and feet more effectively than Otule on both offense and defense.  He can quickly change the momentum of a game--see Bucknell, Duke, Wisconsin.  Pass the ball up high to the Ox and he won't be as successful.

When I see a bounce pass into Chris, I know there will be a steal.  

[Dienerfor3]

Only negative thing offensively I've noticed with Davante is that he always goes right. If he could go left he would have many more easy baskets--even when he has easy layups on the left side, he uses his right hand.

[kmwtrucks]

I did mean a 1/2 mile.  the point was You build a big part of your Cardiovascular capacity when you are young, and DG probably never did a ton of running in any sport growing up.   

[denverMU]

I think Gardner should start and play as many minutes as possible 15-20+.  Is he the greatest defensive player? no, but I have seen JB, DB,and JC mess-up on D and they don't get pulled.  It seems to me Buzz is "cutting off his nose to spite his face" with this concept of if you don't practice well you don't play.  I don't think anyone can argue we are a better offensive team without Gardner on the floor.  I think we are better defensive team and all-around team with him in the game.  He takes up space on both ends, he's a great passer, and he is instant offense.  In yesterdays game he got the ball, drew 2 defenders, and passed back out for easy 3 point shots and as has been pointed out he catches passes no matter were they are thrown.  Finally, if we have to give up a little bit on D his O makes up for it easily.  GO GARDNER GO.

[bilsu]

Williams and Jones are poor defensive players. Seems to be a common thing about our young big men. It is hard for them to play the pressure gambling defense Buzz wants to play. They may be more suited to a Syracuse or Wisconsin defense that relies on keeping the floor defensively balanced versus chasing players all over the court. I like MU's defensive style, because it is fun to watch the agressiveness. However, I am not sure how effective it is. It tends to result in smaller players playing and because they are intent on pressuring the offensive players they are not necessarily in good rebounding position when the shot is taken.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Sounds like the good Dr. nailed it on the head.