Don't Hang Your Heads (Up your butts)

[panda]

Little energy? What team are you watching Stretch?

Starting unit played with noticeably low energy on sat.

Overall this season it hasn’t been an issue.

[Goose]

Strech

Lose a lot of credibility when you say little energy. There are a lot of issues to discuss, but energy would not be on high on 99.9% of basketball fans list.

[Pakuni]

Little energy? What team are you watching Stretch?

It's not a fair criticism of the season as a whole, but they were definitely lethargic for the first 25+ minutes Saturday.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You people are drunk. Before the season started, everyone tried to tell you that this team wasn't very good on paper. The Big East coaches, the media, KenPom, T-Rank, Haslam, some of the more sane scoopers, all of them said that this team would likely finish towards the bottom of the Big East. Hell, Shaka said it every chance he got when speaking publicly preseason. The fact that we're not sub-500 right now is a testament to Shaka coaching up this roster. The fact that other than Bucky and Bonnies, this team has been in every game is also a testament to Shaka coaching this team up. We have one guy who was a high major starter before this season. The rest is a bunch of high major bench players, a mid-major starter, and a bunch of freshmen who were ranked 90 or lower...playing in a league full of teams that have been playing together for years and are supplemented by 24 year old men on COVID years. How anyone expected a top 5 conference finish is beyond me.

Shaka could have gone after immediate impact transfers, lord knows there was plenty of them. Instead, he went after a bunch of freshmen, young transfers, and two good but not great grad transfers to teach the youngings how to play defense. Shaka is zigging, while the rest of the basketball world is zagging. His strength as a coach is relationships and development. Maybe it blows up in the face of insta-transfers, we won't know for a little bit.

This doesn't mean Shaka is immune from criticism. He fooked up on Saturday. His offense doesn't match his personnel.  Rebounding is getting better but still suspect. But let's not dismiss our coach's strengths when he hasn't had the time to show them off yet.

[Uncle Rico]

You people are drunk. Before the season started, everyone tried to tell you that this team wasn't very good on paper. The Big East coaches, the media, KenPom, T-Rank, Haslam, some of the more sane scoopers, all of them said that this team would likely finish towards the bottom of the Big East. Hell, Shaka said it every chance he got when speaking publicly preseason. The fact that we're not sub-500 right now is a testament to Shaka coaching up this roster. The fact that other than Bucky and Bonnies, this team has been in every game is also a testament to Shaka coaching this team up. We have one guy who was a high major starter before this season. The rest is a bunch of high major bench players, a mid-major starter, and a bunch of freshmen who were ranked 90 or lower...playing in a league full of teams that have been playing together for years and are supplemented by 24 year old men on COVID years. How anyone expected a top 5 conference finish is beyond me.

Shaka could have gone after immediate impact transfers, lord knows there was plenty of them. Instead, he went after a bunch of freshmen, young transfers, and two good but not great grad transfers to teach the youngings how to play defense. Shaka is zigging, while the rest of the basketball world is zagging. His strength as a coach is relationships and development. Maybe it blows up in the face of insta-transfers, we won't know for a little bit.

This doesn't mean Shaka is immune from criticism. He fooked up on Saturday. His offense doesn't match his personnel.  Rebounding is getting better but still suspect. But let's not dismiss our coach's strengths when he hasn't had the time to show them off yet.

I agree with this analysis

[Scoop Snoop]

Scoop

We cannot change the past eight years of performance and can only look forward. IMO, we have shot the ball poorly and shot ourselves in the foot in three BE games, yet still had a chance to beat three good teams.
I am not a moral victory guy and pissed off that we lost, especially I have been saying for months the need to steal some games and they did not get that done the last three games. That being said, I wonder if all the naysayers believed going into those games that we would be in the game in last two minutes. If they can hang with the big boys with horrible shooting and rebounding that gives me optimism, they are on the right track.

Oh, I have no disagreement with any part of what you wrote. Of course the past is past. It's just been so long (other than a magical run in '18-'19 until it ended in disaster) that it is difficult to focus on better days ahead. Let's hope that starts tonight!

[tower912]

You people are drunk. Before the season started, everyone tried to tell you that this team wasn't very good on paper. The Big East coaches, the media, KenPom, T-Rank, Haslam, some of the more sane scoopers, all of them said that this team would likely finish towards the bottom of the Big East. Hell, Shaka said it every chance he got when speaking publicly preseason. The fact that we're not sub-500 right now is a testament to Shaka coaching up this roster. The fact that other than Bucky and Bonnies, this team has been in every game is also a testament to Shaka coaching this team up. We have one guy who was a high major starter before this season. The rest is a bunch of high major bench players, a mid-major starter, and a bunch of freshmen who were ranked 90 or lower...playing in a league full of teams that have been playing together for years and are supplemented by 24 year old men on COVID years. How anyone expected a top 5 conference finish is beyond me.

Shaka could have gone after immediate impact transfers, lord knows there was plenty of them. Instead, he went after a bunch of freshmen, young transfers, and two good but not great grad transfers to teach the youngings how to play defense. Shaka is zigging, while the rest of the basketball world is zagging. His strength as a coach is relationships and development. Maybe it blows up in the face of insta-transfers, we won't know for a little bit.

This doesn't mean Shaka is immune from criticism. He fooked up on Saturday. His offense doesn't match his personnel.  Rebounding is getting better but still suspect. But let's not dismiss our coach's strengths when he hasn't had the time to show them off yet.

    Well stated.   

[Goose]

TAMU

Great post. Shaka is why this team has a winning record and he did fxxk up on Saturday. My optimism for this year was 100% based off the Shaka factor and I think he has met expectations thus far. I still think he steals a few more and the final record looks much better than many on here feared. This is a flawed time, but not a flawed coach.

[Pakuni]

Seem to be a lot of people here arguing against nonexistent posters who believe this team should be ranked and atop the Big East.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Seem to be a lot of people here arguing against nonexistent posters who believe this team should be ranked and atop the Big East.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=62247.0

20% thought we would be a for sure NCAA tournament team. 75% thought we would at least be on the bubble. There have been plenty of posts that have said that we could finish in the top of the Big East.

[MU82]

Seem to be a lot of people here arguing against nonexistent posters who believe this team should be ranked and atop the Big East.

Well ... I don't know about being ranked and atop the BEast (as one who likes hyperbole himself, bravo), but ...

++ In the preseason poll, 46 Scoopers picked us to win 20+ games and make the NCAAT, including 9 who went with 25+. And 131 said we'd be "Team Bubble Watch." Add those up, and it's a majority who thought we'd at least have a shot at a tourney bid.

++ 5-Dollar Pitcher predicted 25-6 and an Elite 8 appearance. After we lost to the Bonnies, he said, "Still have them predicted to go 16-4 in the BEAST and an Elite Eight. If you can’t get on board with that - you’re the problem."

++ 9-9-9 said probably 25 times that he expected us to contend for a top-3 BE finish.

++ Goose predicted 20+ wins and an NCAAT bid, and went with 12-8 in the BEast before the conference part of the season started.

++ dgies predicted 21-8, apparently accounting for canceled Covid games.

++ brew said 11-9 in conference.

++ Viper, a Shaka critic, predicted 10-10 in conference.

++ And so on.

And all that's great. I love optimism. It's an essential part of being a sports fan, and it beats the hell out of whining and beyotching and sounding hopeless.

And who knows ... it might still happen.

We Are Marquette!

[Pakuni]

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=62247.0
There have been plenty of posts that have said that we could finish in the top of the Big East.

Can I see some of those posts saying MU should finish in the top of the Big East? I'm sure not seeing any in this thread or any recent ones (with all the drunk people you're referring to), but maybe some really old ones I've missed.

Expecting this to be a bubble team - which they were a couple of weeks ago, by the way - is not the same as "ranked and atop the Big East."

[tower912]

Can I see some of those posts saying MU should finish in the top of the Big East? I'm sure not seeing any in this thread or any recent ones (with all the drunk people you're referring to), but maybe some really old ones I've missed.

Expecting this to be a bubble team - which they were a couple of weeks ago, by the way - is not the same as "ranked and atop the Big East."

I just bumped the thread containing predictions.

[brewcity77]

What bothers me is the close but no cigar moments we've had this year. Saturday just p*ssed me off to no end.

It did that to me too. That said...

Lose big, lose close, win close, win big.

This season alone we've already suffered three big losses. Our last three losses were all close. At worst, we had the ball and a 1-point deficit in the closing minutes of the game. We aren't there yet, but we've stopped losing big and are now losing close. Maybe before the year is done, we start to win close and in the future can turn that into winning big.

People can dismiss the old "five years to judge" adage, but it feels pretty silly for any of us to be making sweeping judgments after 2 months.

[Pakuni]

I just bumped the thread containing predictions.

Yep, a whopping 9 out of 236 people who took part saw this as a team atop the Big East. The same number who believed they'd win 12 or fewer games.
The vast majority (3 out of 4) said this was a 12 to 19 win team. Which seems to be where they're headed. So, the vast majority had entirely reasonable and accurate expectations of the season.

But by all means, let's keep ranting about unrealistic expectations every time a winnable game becomes a loss because that somehow makes sense.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Can I see some of those posts saying MU should finish in the top of the Big East? I'm sure not seeing any in this thread or any recent ones (with all the drunk people you're referring to), but maybe some really old ones I've missed.

Expecting this to be a bubble team - which they were a couple of weeks ago, by the way - is not the same as "ranked and atop the Big East."

So literally no one, except you, has said "ranked and atop the Big East" in this thread. You completely made up that standard. I assumed your post was in response to mine which said "top 5 in the Big East", which is very different from what you wrote. Maybe you were responding to Unleash who said "light up the Big East" but that is also very different from what you wrote. No one else said anything about other's expectations. So in accusing others of "arguing against nonexistent posters"...you yourself actually started arguing against nonexistent posters.

The reason I linked the past thread was because 75% of posters said we would at least be a bubble team. Traditionally the 4th or 5th place team in the Big East is usually a bubble team. Usually on the right side of the bubble but a bubble team nonetheless. That's why I said top 5 in the Big East, expecting this team to be a bubble team by the end of the season was too high of expectations.

[FartyEightHours]

Seems like the MU admin has been drunk for a decade since buzz hire.

[rocky_warrior]

Seems like the MU admin has been drunk for a decade since buzz hire.

Honestly, buzz may have been their most drunk hire. Sure, it worked out great, but outside of a short stint at UNO, had done nothing to deserve the job.

[dgies9156]

++ dgies predicted 21-8, apparently accounting for canceled Covid games.

I did and I did. The basis for my optimism was I expected a lot from Kur Kuath and Darryl Morsell. I was hopeful that Tyler Kolak would hit at least a third of his three point shots and we wouldn't shoot ourselves in the foot the way we did Saturday. My view was that Morsell and Kuath would not come here to fill holes but legitimately viewed themselves as having a shot at an NCAA. Mix these guys in with Justin Lewis and the emergence one or more of our young guys and I thought we really had something.

 -- Kuath has been a disappointment. Hardly an upgrade from Theo -- good defense, no offense.

 -- Morsell started off like a world beater but cooled off faster than an alligator on an ice flow. He hasn't yet emerged as the team leader I'd hoped for.

 -- Kolak has been impressive, but not the way I thought. The guy is hard working, gutsy and an incredible spark plug for our team.

 -- The change in Oso, admittedly, has been impressive. I'm really high on him! This is my happiest takeaway from this year.

I admit, we could have done something akin to what Texas did -- reload with transfers and decommits. Had we done that, we'd be on our way and probably had at least one or two more wins.

Candidly, I know Shaka has his system and I hope it works. But I'm damn tired of system changes, overhauls and teams that are "young." I heard that when the previous Coach was at MU and we didn't win then. Maybe I'm cranky from a broken ankle (suffered a month ago) or because I'm old, but my patience is wearing thin. Saturday put me in full MU b*tching mode. As a former, famous Wisconsinite said, "Winning isn't everything... it's the only thing!"

Hope they prove me wrong and I'm happy as a gator who just caught a 30 pound fish by year end. But, damn, we're a long way from where we should be!

[Jay Bee]

Honestly, buzz may have been their most drunk hire. Sure, it worked out great, but outside of a short stint at UNO, had done nothing to deserve the job.

Take that back! He worked under the most distinguished coach in America!!! I4, aka Mr GAis#5

[Pakuni]

So literally no one, except you, has said "ranked and atop the Big East" in this thread.

You literally posted this three hours ago:
There have been plenty of posts that have said that we could finish in the top of the Big East.


Regardless of what you believe are reasonable expectations for the season, it's completely normal for people to come here after the team loses a winnable game (or any game) and talk about the reasons for the loss. That's part of the reason this place exists, I think.
I find it odd that some here continually try to shut down those discussions by saying (paraphrasing) those who thought this team should be doing better must be drunk, or just don't understand that Shaka's plan requires losing winnable games, or "Hey, did I mention for the 900th time this team is young?" or, worst of all, go cheer for another team.
It's OK, and entirely possible, to be on board with Shaka and still express some frustration with the recent results. I believe he has much higher expectations for this team than a lot of you do.

[MU82]

As a former, famous Wisconsinite said, "Winning isn't everything... it's the only thing!"

Arguably the greatest coach in NFL history, Vince Lombardi was 7-5 with no playoffs in his culture-building first season with the Packers.

Here's hoping Shaka does as well as Vince did from Year 2 on.

[Pakuni]

Arguably the greatest coach in NFL history, Vince Lombardi was 7-5 with no playoffs in his culture-building first season with the Packers.

He took over a team that went 1-10 the previous season. So, he brought about massive improvement his first year while also building his culture.
Someone forgot to tell him you can't do both, I guess.

[JakeBarnes]

Arguably the greatest coach in NFL history, Vince Lombardi was 7-5 with no playoffs in his culture-building first season with the Packers.

Here's hoping Shaka does as well as Vince did from Year 2 on.

Shaka already got us to 8 wins, so Shaka>Vince

[MU82]

He took over a team that went 1-10 the previous season. So, he brought about massive improvement his first year while also building his culture.
Someone forgot to tell him you can't do both, I guess.

No playoffs. Vince-Scooter-Rhodes-Blackbourn failed!