COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[GooooMarquette]

    "A strong leader who took the experts seriously might very well have gotten us to 90% or better compliance in closing and then opening up in a more scientifically sound manner...and that would have been much better than we got."

  who are these people you refer to as "experts"?  i've been saying this all along.  if we ran a montage of wjat the various "experts" have said over time, they were only expertly right until they were proven wrong.  then it was the next man/woman up.

that aside, dr fauci should know a little more than some with regards to this bat virus test as he was for it before he was against it, eyn'a?  i
    think he' got some "splaining to do

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741

 

How many times do you need to ask the same question?

Public health experts (at places like CDC, Johns Hopkins and Mayo Clinic) have been consistent all along in calling for stay at home orders, and a slow return to normal only when the numbers are decreasing and adequate testing and contact tracing are available.

Sure, there have been gradual changes in what we know about the virus and how to treat it, but the basic pandemic-fighting recommendations have been the same all along.

[forgetful]

 
that aside, dr fauci should know a little more than some with regards to this bat virus test as he was for it before he was against it, eyn'a?  i
    think he' got some "splaining to do

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741

These gain of function studies are quite controversial. The Obama administration banned funding for such research, as they feared that a gain of function virus could escape, or the information could be used nefariously.

The Trump administration reinstituted it in 2017.

An interesting history regarding the gain of function studies, and a hotly debated ethical question in research.

[rocket surgeon]

How many times do you need to ask the same question?

Public health experts (at places like CDC, Johns Hopkins and Mayo Clinic) have been consistent all along in calling for stay at home orders, and a slow return to normal only when the numbers are decreasing and adequate testing and contact tracing are available.

Sure, there have been gradual changes in what we know about the virus and how to treat it, but the basic pandemic-fighting recommendations have been the same all along.

my point is gm, that the "experts" are not scrutinized enough.  for example, i saw an interview with an doc on tv who was raising all of these alarm bells over the use of hydroxychlor.  stating it was causing to big of risk with heart issues.  then on another station, i see a doc who cited his actual uses of the drug with his patients, taking EKG, noting no changes in the QT intervals whatsoever, along the way, not seeing ANY heart issues.  it's not an anecdotal story.  i could probably find it if i had to.  i am merely stating that once we latch onto someone, it seems they are Gospel.  what they are finding is if hydroxychlor. is used early enough in the illness, it saves patients from getting to the point of needing venilators, saving hospital space and shortening thge duration of illness.  many on this board and the media did not want to acknowledge the benefits of hydroxychlor, much less allow the "experts" to use it.  so much so, to the point of disallowing it's use.  so much for interfering with doctor-patient relationship and decisions. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Rocket- I wholeheartedly disagree. Experts are vetted by learning, more info/data and more experts testing hypotheses to an accepted conclusion.  Yes you need to find out who you are listening to.  That is up to the consumer and the platform presenting to vet. 

I’m not sure what this has to do with one drug treatment. It got the access to trials and emergency use. If it worked better we would be using it more.

I wish it wasn’t politicized and promoted by the media.  I wish there wasn’t the backlash of ‘I told you so’ when it didn’t rise to the top.  Wasted effort- distraction - dust storm when we need concrete actions. 

[MU82]

my point is gm, that the "experts" are not scrutinized enough.  for example, i saw an interview with an doc on tv who was raising all of these alarm bells over the use of hydroxychlor.  stating it was causing to big of risk with heart issues.  then on another station, i see a doc who cited his actual uses of the drug with his patients, taking EKG, noting no changes in the QT intervals whatsoever, along the way, not seeing ANY heart issues.  it's not an anecdotal story.  i could probably find it if i had to.  i am merely stating that once we latch onto someone, it seems they are Gospel.  what they are finding is if hydroxychlor. is used early enough in the illness, it saves patients from getting to the point of needing venilators, saving hospital space and shortening thge duration of illness.  many on this board and the media did not want to acknowledge the benefits of hydroxychlor, much less allow the "experts" to use it.  so much so, to the point of disallowing it's use.  so much for interfering with doctor-patient relationship and decisions.

Day after day, the leader of the free world was shouting for everybody to use hydroxychloroquine even though Fauci and other experts he employed repeatedly stressed that it was unvetted for COVID-19 and possibly dangerous. "What do you have to lose?" he kept shouting.

It turned out, some people had lives to lose. And once actual thorough studies started being done, hydroxychloroquine was found to be dangerous and rather ineffective in treating COVID-19.

There's a reason President Pandemic, Vice President Hannity and the rest of his Fox News cabinet suddenly stopped touting it -- and that reason wasn't because it was working those "miracles" your emperor had been promising.

What did he have to lose? Credibility. Again. He always thinks there are shortcuts, super-quick ways to do things that science says, "Sorry, this takes time." THAT was the point the media was trying to make about hydroxychloroquine. In making it, maybe they even saved a few lives.

Within a day after President Pandemic told Birx he'd like to see her look into the possibility of injecting people with disinfectants, hundreds of people were ingesting Lysol, Clorox, 409 and the like. Were they idiots? Yes. Was it the emperor's "fault"? He sure didn't think so. But when the president speaks, his words have more consequences than yours and mine do.

Trying to vilify experts is the latest trick in the emperor's "not my fault" handbook.

Incompetent experts, the media, China. Obama, the WHO, Congress, Dems, the CDC, Bush, governors, Never-Trumpers, liberals ... the list of those to blame goes on and on. The only one who somehow escapes his blame is the orange guy he stares at in the mirror.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

From the NY Times morning brief:

"Why has the United States failed to bring down its caseload as much as most other countries?

The answer isn’t completely clear, given the complexity of the virus. But the leading suspect, many experts say, is the uneven nature of the U.S. response — like the shortage of tests so far and the mixed approach to social distancing.

“The problem with the American response is that it’s so haphazard,” Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, told me.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

From the NY Times morning brief:

"Why has the United States failed to bring down its caseload as much as most other countries?

The answer isn’t completely clear, given the complexity of the virus. But the leading suspect, many experts say, is the uneven nature of the U.S. response — like the shortage of tests so far and the mixed approach to social distancing.

“The problem with the American response is that it’s so haphazard,” Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, told me.

Oh here you go again.  Touting some "expert."  But do we really know that Ashish Jha is really an "expert?"  What about those two ER docs from Bakersfield?  Who's to say that they don't know as much about public health as the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

my point is gm, that the "experts" are not scrutinized enough.

Then scrutinize them! 

Look into who is being quoted and what their backgrounds are.  Don't just believe everyone who has an "MD" after their name as having a equally informed view of the pandemic.  And also realize that no expert is right 100% of the time.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Oh here you go again.  Touting some "expert."  But do we really know that Ashish Jha is really an "expert?"  What about those two ER docs from Bakersfield?  Who's to say that they don't know as much about public health as the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute?

You're right. I'm busted! There is simply NO way to discern if someone is an expert.

There is one exception, as we know: the only ones we should trust are "healthcare professionals". They know all.

[Jockey]

You're right. I'm busted! There is simply NO way to discern if someone is an expert.

There is one exception, as we know: the only ones we should trust are "healthcare professionals". They know all.

Rocket brain could care less who the experts are. He only knows of only one expert who of course is a functional idiot. His job is to defend the big brained genius.

Incidentally, Fox stopped pushing hydroxy because their lawyers told them to stop.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Rocket brain could care less who the experts are. He only knows of only one expert who of course is a functional idiot. His job is to defend the big brained genius.

There is really no reason for this.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

There is really no reason for this.

He's been called out on this before.  He apologizes, but seemingly can't help himself.

[Hards Alumni]

my point is gm, that the "experts" are not scrutinized enough.  for example, i saw an interview with an doc on tv who was raising all of these alarm bells over the use of hydroxychlor.  stating it was causing to big of risk with heart issues.  then on another station, i see a doc who cited his actual uses of the drug with his patients, taking EKG, noting no changes in the QT intervals whatsoever, along the way, not seeing ANY heart issues.  it's not an anecdotal story.  i could probably find it if i had to.  i am merely stating that once we latch onto someone, it seems they are Gospel.  what they are finding is if hydroxychlor. is used early enough in the illness, it saves patients from getting to the point of needing venilators, saving hospital space and shortening thge duration of illness.  many on this board and the media did not want to acknowledge the benefits of hydroxychlor, much less allow the "experts" to use it.  so much so, to the point of disallowing it's use.  so much for interfering with doctor-patient relationship and decisions.

Sweet sweet irony.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

"The problem with the American response is that it’s so haphazard,” Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, told me.

Trump cheers on governors even as they ignore White House coronavirus guidelines in race to reopen
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-cheers-on-governors-even-as-they-ignore-white-house-coronavirus-guidelines-in-race-to-reopen/ar-BB13B6Rj?ocid=spartanntp

"Trump’s light criticism of Georgia’s decision to begin opening up businesses including barbershops and bowling alleys before meeting White House benchmarks was short-lived.

While the president said on April 23, he was “not happy” with Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) for the defying the guidelines, it took him only a week to deny his own remarks.

“I didn’t say that,” Trump said Friday when his quote about Kemp was read back to him."

Denying reality. Pure gaslighting. It will kill many thousands of Americans.

[GooooMarquette]

Then scrutinize them! 

Look into who is being quoted and what their backgrounds are.  Don't just believe everyone who has an "MD" after their name as having a equally informed view of the pandemic.  And also realize that no expert is right 100% of the time.

Correct!

In a pandemic, look beyond the "MD" or "PhD" to see what expertise they have specifically in the areas of public health, widespread outbreaks, etc. That will help you distinguish the two ER docs who recently posted that viral video a week or two ago from true public health experts. When in doubt, look to the organizations that you've heard about as thought leaders from one health issue to another, and you are probably looking at an organization worthy of trust.

[MU82]

Trump cheers on governors even as they ignore White House coronavirus guidelines in race to reopen
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-cheers-on-governors-even-as-they-ignore-white-house-coronavirus-guidelines-in-race-to-reopen/ar-BB13B6Rj?ocid=spartanntp

"Trump’s light criticism of Georgia’s decision to begin opening up businesses including barbershops and bowling alleys before meeting White House benchmarks was short-lived.

While the president said on April 23, he was “not happy” with Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) for the defying the guidelines, it took him only a week to deny his own remarks.

“I didn’t say that,” Trump said Friday when his quote about Kemp was read back to him."

Denying reality. Pure gaslighting. It will kill many thousands of Americans.

He is amazing. And his easily conned sheeple just cheer him on. Facts simply do not  matter. As Guiliani said: "Truth isn't truth."

Meanwhile ...

This from the Charlotte Observer ...

N.C. Gov. Roy Cooper remained hopeful Monday that more businesses will begin to reopen when the state’s stay-at-home order expires May 8. But North Carolina’s current COVID-19 numbers are lagging behind what federal and state guidelines recommend for reopening. The governor might need to adjust his approach to restrictions.

Cooper, in a news conference Monday morning, said he was “still hoping we can get to Phase 1” and that an announcement on specifics could come as early as Tuesday. White House guidelines, however, recommend a downward trajectory over a 14-day period of reported influenza like illnesses and COVID-19 symptoms before states start reopening. Cooper’s own reopening checklist calls for a downward trajectory in new cases, a “continued” downward trajectory in COVID-like illnesses and a 14-day downward trajectory in the number of people currently hospitalized. As of Monday, North Carolina hasn’t appeared to achieve any of those benchmarks.


This is the problem state after state will face.

The president put out a well-thought-out, 3-phase plan that included several benchmarks. Many governors, mostly (or maybe all) from red states, started re-opening their states even though few (if any) of the benchmarks had been met. And the very president who put out the benchmarks is cheering them on for ignoring his benchmarks. Again ... wonderful leadership.

Where do other states go from here? We can't stay "closed" forever. But it's quite possible the worst -- from a death-toll viewpoint, anyway -- is yet to come.

I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

He's been called out on this before.  He apologizes, but seemingly can't help himself.

Jockey and 82, two 60 year old toddlers.

[GooooMarquette]

This is the problem state after state will face.

The president put out a well-thought-out, 3-phase plan that included several benchmarks. Many governors, mostly (or maybe all) from red states, started re-opening their states even though few (if any) of the benchmarks had been met. And the very president who put out the benchmarks is cheering them on for ignoring his benchmarks. Again ... wonderful leadership.

Where do other states go from here? We can't stay "closed" forever. But it's quite possible the worst -- from a death-toll viewpoint, anyway -- is yet to come.

I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.

Agreed, but this is not a future tense issue. Most states have begun some version of a phase-one reopening, even though very few (perhaps none) meet the criteria for reopening (14-day downward trajectory, widespread and fast testing, comprehensive contact tracing capabilities).

If your governor is just starting to consider reopening without meeting the criteria, he is acting prematurely...but far less prematurely than the governors of most states.

[MU82]

Agreed, but this is not a future tense issue. Most states have begun some version of a phase-one reopening, even though very few (perhaps none) meet the criteria for reopening (14-day downward trajectory, widespread and fast testing, comprehensive contact tracing capabilities).

If your governor is just starting to consider reopening without meeting the criteria, he is acting prematurely...but far less prematurely than the governors of most states.

Yes, I have a feeling Cooper is really, really wrestling with this. Probably losing sleep over it. As I would be if I were in his shoes.

We can't stay closed for another 3, 5, 10 months. Maybe not even another 3 weeks -- especially if most of the rest of the country, including all the states around us, are open.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Oh here you go again.  Touting some "expert."  But do we really know that Ashish Jha is really an "expert?"  What about those two ER docs from Bakersfield?  Who's to say that they don't know as much about public health as the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute?

I mean common sense is enough to tell you why we’ve done a horrible job here and it starts at the top.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

In many ways people are the sum of their experiences. Judging people stupid because their biases are different from yours says nothing about them and volumes about you. It doesn’t advance the discussion - it stops it in its tracks.

You’re basically excusing stupidity and ignorance because of “biases”.  Specifically what “biases” are you referring to?

These people at protests with guns that don’t have masks and are not practicing social distancing have no interest in any type of discussion. Their actions make that perfectly clear. And yes, those people are stunningly stupid.

[Pakuni]

You’re basically excusing stupidity and ignorance because of “biases”.  Specifically what “biases” are you referring to?

These people at protests with guns that don’t have masks and are not practicing social distancing have no interest in any type of discussion. Their actions make that perfectly clear. And yes, those people are stunningly stupid.

They just want to buy seeds.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

They just want to buy seeds.

Again, what “biases” are you referring to?  I’d genuinely like to know.

Edit: My fault - confused your response with Lenny. Apologies.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Again, what “biases” are you referring to?  I’d genuinely like to know.

I think pakuni is on your side. 

Or are you just arguing to argue with no real point?

[MU82]

These people at protests with guns that don’t have masks and are not practicing social distancing have no interest in any type of discussion.

Don't forget the swastikas, nooses and confederate flags carried by "these very good people."