Raleigh Talk Radio

[muguru]

This wins dumbest post of the year. Congratulations!

So you're going to argue that this Big east is anywhere near as good as the Old Big East...talk about dumb!

[Mr. Nielsen]

Alright, you got me MU82, I give up...you're right, it is HEAD AND shoulders above the Old Big East, you just proved it. Well done. Speaking of the Old Big east(the best conference ever assembled), don't you find it..strange/sad, that MU did better year in and year out in THAT conference than this current conference?? If you don't find that sad..I don't even know what to say...I really don't.

No. No. No. The debate is not the old vs new. Your statement was people saying that the new version of the Big East is great was your statement.

[muguru]

After reading some of the responses I think there are two separate arguments here.  I do not believe the Big East Conference is a mid major and your evidence proves exactly that, the success speaks for itself.  The question I have is if the Big East Coaches will continue to be plucked by the ACC due to, as stated before, the contracts that were given to Mack, Holtmann, Buzz (who was a different situation) and potentially Wojo or Willard?  If this trend continues can the Big East continue its' success as a conference with this type of turnover?

The bottom line is Ron, no matter what anyone else here wants to think, Coaches are not nearly as likely to stay in this Big East as they were the old Big East. Further, marquee Coaches would have easily considered taking a job in that conference, this one...not so much. You really couldn't take a step up in conference as a Coach leaving the old Big east..Unfortunately, you can in this Big East.

[WarriorDad]

This wins dumbest post of the year. Congratulations!

Dumbest today, that is definite.  He complains about everything.  The new Big East is not as good as the old Big East.  Ok.  Everyone agrees.  It is also the best conference a non football school can be in, and has done extremely well in the first six years. 

[Not A Serious Person]

Alright, you got me MU82, I give up...you're right, it is HEAD AND shoulders above the Old Big East, you just proved it. Well done. Speaking of the Old Big east(the best conference ever assembled), don't you find it..strange/sad, that MU did better year in and year out in THAT conference than this current conference?? If you don't find that sad..I don't even know what to say...I really don't.

That is a straw man ... the old Big East was the best ever but broke up because of football money.  Basketball had nothing to do with it.

About the teams that went to the ACC - Cuse, Pitt, 'Ville and ND ... did they get better or worse?  I would argue worse.  Pitt is a disaster, Cuse is down, ND is invisible and 'Ville has to vacate every success they have had post BE.

Going to the ACC did nothing for their basketball success (but has been huge in getting more football money).

My point is you vastly overstate the importance of a conference.  A conference is really about making 50% of your schedule easy and getting a TV contract.  As you noted, Gonzaga has been an elite team without a "power" conference.

Conference affiliation is not that important when it comes to basketball winning percentages.

[Jon]

wades

You are calling someone out for starting a thread? I like seeing folks that do not post often get involved.

Joe,

As you know, wades attacks people who don't agree with him. It's that simple.

He's an pretty boy.

[Anti-Dentite]

Joe,

As you know, wades attacks people who don't agree with him. It's that simple.

He's an pretty boy.

A real dandy, a fancy boy even.

[Dr. Blackheart]

After reading some of the responses I think there are two separate arguments here.  I do not believe the Big East Conference is a mid major and your evidence proves exactly that, the success speaks for itself.  The question I have is if the Big East Coaches will continue to be plucked by the ACC due to, as stated before, the contracts that were given to Mack, Holtmann, Buzz (who was a different situation) and potentially Wojo or Willard?  If this trend continues can the Big East continue its' success as a conference with this type of turnover?

Here is the reality...TWO football conferences have a boatload of cash to spend.  Buzz left the Big East for the ACC. Now he is leaving the ACC for the SEC.  Fred Hoiberg just got a ton of cash at Nebraska. Hell, the cash trickles down to the non-revenue sports too as MU found out today.

Football is driving the bus.  MU is in the best position they can.  Even the ACC is now a stepping stone basketball job.

[Galway Eagle]

So...you say the A10 then wasn't today's A10..Okay..I give you that, but then you cannot in any way, shape or form think this new BE is anything close to what the OLD BE was.

I did expect MU to roll through it...because I happened to think highly of MU as a program at that time...afterall, they finished top half of the best conference ever assembled more often than not, had more success in it than Georgetown and Nova did, and even won a BE title. The fact that they had MORE success in a conference like that, then in this current iteration of the BE, is very telling as to where MU is as a program currently, don't you think?? No other way to look at it.

Rank em:
190-75
3BE championships, FF and S16

181-90
1 BE championship, FF, E8 and S16

191-85
1BE championship, E8, 2 S16

I don't think this is the old BE but it's a lot more than you're giving it credit for that's for sure.

I personally disagree that we had more success than them in the BE during those 8 years. I'd say it's very comparable which is why I said you believing we'd roll the BE is tunnel vision it's entirely based on where we were not where we were relative to our main competition.

[MU82]

Alright, you got me MU82, I give up...you're right, it is HEAD AND shoulders above the Old Big East, you just proved it. Well done. Speaking of the Old Big east(the best conference ever assembled), don't you find it..strange/sad, that MU did better year in and year out in THAT conference than this current conference?? If you don't find that sad..I don't even know what to say...I really don't.

The MU program is a bigger problem then the conference is...the mere fact that for the most part they have struggled to find their footing in this conference...when it wasn't a problem in a MUCH stronger conference..is telling, don't you think?? Of course you don't think so...who am I kidding, NOTHING MU related is a problem to you, the Coach is just fine, the program is just fine, everything is fine, right??

Please, please, please point me to one Scooper who is contending that the post 2013 Big East is better than the pre-2013 Big East, Mr. Strawman.

All I was answering was those who say our conference has become mid-major, which only a fool would argue.

As for the last part of your rant ... I have already addressed those points numerous times. You either have a severely failing memory -- and if you do, I apologize for making light of it -- or you just like to argue for the sake of arguing and just like to be miserable for the sake of being miserable.

[Not A Serious Person]

Here is the reality...TWO football conferences have a boatload of cash to spend.  Buzz left the Big East for the ACC. Now he is leaving the ACC for the SEC.  Fred Hoiberg just got a ton of cash at Nebraska. Hell, the cash trickles down to the non-revenue sports too as MU found out today.

Football is driving the bus.  MU is in the best position they can.  Even the ACC is now a stepping stone basketball job.

This

Money is all about football.  MU dropped football 59 years ago. No small/private urban school has been able to start a successful D1 program since.

I would argue that MU basketball is arguably the premiere non-football school** in the country ... when you consider where they play, facilities, attendance and nearby recruiting (WI is way up in producing elite payers).

** If guru can pull the term "power 4" out his arse, I can pull "premiere non-football school" out of mine.

[muguru]

Rank em:
190-75
3BE championships, FF and S16

181-90
1 BE championship, FF, E8 and S16

191-85
1BE championship, E8, 2 S16

I don't think this is the old BE but it's a lot more than you're giving it credit for that's for sure.

I personally disagree that we had more success than them in the BE during those 8 years. I'd say it's very comparable which is why I said you believing we'd roll the BE is tunnel vision it's entirely based on where we were not where we were relative to our main competition.

It's a better conference (so far), then I thought it would be I admit that. My problem is..it's incredibly sad to me that MU hasn't done better in this conference from the beginning.

[MU82]

It's a better conference (so far), then I thought it would be I admit that. My problem is..it's incredibly sad to me that MU hasn't done better in this conference from the beginning.

It's sad to all of us. We all want our team to be great every year.

[Not A Serious Person]

It's a better conference (so far), then I thought it would be I admit that. My problem is..it's incredibly sad to me that MU hasn't done better in this conference from the beginning.

Because Buzz left the cupboards empty when the new BE started.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Please, please, please point me to one Scooper who is contending that the post 2013 Big East is better than the pre-2013 Big East,

I do like the New Big East Conference better for TV purposes. Every game is on TV!  21 games are on free over the air TV. Most for any conference! I also like the true round robin. Last, the Big East Tournament feels the same. Sold out. Energy in the building.

[Galway Eagle]

It's a better conference (so far), then I thought it would be I admit that. My problem is..it's incredibly sad to me that MU hasn't done better in this conference from the beginning.

That's not ranking those results. You were very confident about how we had done so much better than our competitors during that stretch.

I'm extremely disappointed, I envisioned my 20s filled with young alumni seats, celebrations at the schoolyard tavern and traveling to ncaa tournament games. Not exactly what it's been.

[muguru]

This

Money is all about football.  MU dropped football 59 years ago. No small/private urban school has been able to start a successful D1 program since.

I would argue that MU basketball is arguably the premiere non-football school** in the country ... when you consider where they play, facilities, attendance and nearby recruiting (WI is way up in producing elite payers).

** If guru can pull the term "power 4" out his arse, I can pull "premiere non-football school" out of mine.

Where the hell did I use the term power 4?? If I did, that was totally a typo.

[Not A Serious Person]

I do like the New Big East Conference better for TV purposes. Every game is on TV!  21 games are on free over the air TV. Most for any conference! I also like the true round robin. Last, the Big East Tournament feels the same. Sold out. Energy in the building.

That last point is important ... the BE had a down year yet every game of the BET was sold out and, at least on TV, the games appeared to have the energy of a FF game.  As 82 noted, the B1G tried to get in on the action ... and now they are back in Chicago for their tourney.  No one can touch the BET.

How on earth did the BE manage to get New Yorkers, of all people, that interested in a mid-major championship????

[muguru]

I do like the New Big East Conference better for TV purposes. Every game is on TV!  21 games are on free over the air TV. Most for any conference! I also like the true round robin. Last, the Big East Tournament feels the same. Sold out. Energy in the building.

I love the round robin...no doubt about that. But I will say one thing I absolutely cannot stand about this conference are the start times..especially all the 8:00 start times. They never start at 8:00, always closer to 8:15(or later). 8:15-8:30 is a brutal start time for a home game when you have an hour drive home etc. 6:00 is too early. It's hard for a lot of people to get off work in time to get there at tip. 7:00 is perfect yet I can't recall many, if any start times at 7:00 for a conference game in this new Big East..not just for MU but for anyone.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The current configuration of the Big East is by no means the 2005-2013 version - which was arguably the greatest basketball conference in history - but it is still one of the top basketball conferences in college basketball.  The biggest problem isn't that the league doesn't have good teams (it always does), it's that no team other than Villanova has consistently made a deep tournament run (Xavier went to an Elite Eight last year; Butler went to a Sweet 16 a few years ago).  Marquette had the opportunity to do so a few weeks ago, until we had the wheels come off. 

I know people don't want to hear it, but there is an incredibly strong argument for expansion - just because expanding increasing the number of bids the league has annually, but also allowing for more teams in conference with more conference wins (which would, in theory, increase our tournament seeds). 

[muguru]

The current configuration of the Big East is by no means the 2005-2013 version - which was arguably the greatest basketball conference in history - but it is still one of the top basketball conferences in college basketball.  The biggest problem isn't that the league doesn't have good teams (it always does), it's that no team other than Villanova has consistently made a deep tournament run (Xavier went to an Elite Eight last year; Butler went to a Sweet 16 a few years ago).  Marquette had the opportunity to do so a few weeks ago, until we had the wheels come off. 

I know people don't want to hear it, but there is an incredibly strong argument for expansion - just because expanding increasing the number of bids the league has annually, but also allowing for more teams in conference with more conference wins (which would, in theory, increase our tournament seeds).

I'm not for expansion of more than one team...UCONN...IF they were to drop football altogether or drop it down to the FCS level. If the Big east were to expand further it HAS to be with schools that are needle movers as far as the product ON THE FLOOR. I just don't see any of those out there that are realistic to go get.

[Mr. Nielsen]

I love the round robin...no doubt about that. But I will say one thing I absolutely cannot stand about this conference are the start times..especially all the 8:00 start times. They never start at 8:00, always closer to 8:15(or later). 8:15-8:30 is a brutal start time for a home game when you have an hour drive home etc. 6:00 is too early. It's hard for a lot of people to get off work in time to get there at tip. 7:00 is perfect yet I can't recall many, if any start times at 7:00 for a conference game in this new Big East..not just for MU but for anyone.

Well, the times have changed, yet they have not. National TV windows have always been 6 and 8pm. They did changed things a bit making some 5:30 and 7:30pm the last couple of years. Main difference now is every game is on national tv.  I believe Marquette had only had 3 games at 8pm.
P.S. don't move to the east coast. Your game can start at 9:10pm.   
If you want 7pm games you can join me for Panther games. 

[jesmu84]

I can tell you mid majors that have been 1 seeds...Gonzaga, more than once. And thank you for making my point, that I think so many are missing...those "mid majors" that the conference added, have been FAR more successful in this BE then MU has been. That should NEVER EVER EVER happen. And the fact that you think Georgetown was supposed to be the Marquee program, just says you don't think that highly of MU's program..given where MU was in the Old BE, always at the top half of conference, won a title etc, they SHOULD be the marquee team in this league...the fact that they aren't..don't you think that speaks volumes as to where MU is as a program currently??

1. No one has missed any of your points because you make the same stupid ones over and over and over again. Even when people respond to your direct questions, you repeat the questions to the same people.

2. Hold up. Did you just call Gonzaga (a program that you aspire to be) a mid major??

[Pakuni]

I can tell you mid majors that have been 1 seeds...Gonzaga, more than once.

Indiana State
DePaul  (I mean, if the Zags are mid-major)
UNLV (see above)
Memphis  (see above)
Temple
UMass
St. Joseph
Wichita State

[wadesworld]

Joe,

As you know, wades attacks people who don't agree with him. It's that simple.

He's an pretty boy.

That was an attack?

Yeesh. Calling you a snowflake is an injustice to snowflakes. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane I guess.