Top 100 Recruits at MU - Erik WIlliams

[Norm]

I realize that there have been several posts on here regarding playing time for Erik Williams, so I thought I'd see how his playing time as a freshman has compared to the other Top 100 recruits who enrolled at Marquette in the last decade.

There seems to be a huge disparity in playing time for Williams compared to every other top 100 recruit save for Mbakwe.

Starting with Scott Merritt in 2000 through Maymon, Cadougan and Williams in 2009, here's how they stack up:

Scott Merritt, 29 out of 33 games played, 0 starts, 526 minutes, 18.1 avg. min., 173 points, 6.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg.

Travis Diener, 33 out of 33 games played, 3 starts, 781 minutes, 23.7 avg. min., 262 points, 7.9 ppg, 2.5 rpg.

Steve Novak, 33 out of 33 games played, 0 starts, 512 minutes, 15.5 avg. min., 220 points, 6.7 ppg, 2.2 rpg.

Dameon Mason, 31 out of 31 games played, 17 starts, 675 minutes, 21.8 avg. min., 279 points, 9.0 ppg, 4.5 rpg.

Dominic James, 31 out of 31 games played, 31 starts, 1006 minutes, 32.5 avg. min., 473 points, 15.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg.

Jerel McNeal, 31 out of 31 games played, 31 starts, 853 minutes, 27.5 avg. min., 343 points, 11.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg.

Wes Matthews, 23 out of 31 games played, 13 starts, 573 minutes, 24.9 avg. min., 207 points, 9.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg.

Trevor Mbakwe, 11 out of 35 games played, 0 starts, 101 minutes, 9.2 avg. min., 17 points, 1.5 ppg, 2.1 rpg.

Jeronne Maymon, 9 out of 9 games played, 0 starts, 147 minutes, 16.3 avg. min., 36 points, 4.0 ppg, 4.2 rpg.

Erik Williams, 6 out of 13 games played, 0 starts, 59 minutes, 9.8 avg. min., 21 points, 3.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg.

Junior Cadougan - Medical Red Shirt.

Mbakwe's numbers are skewed because of his injury that kept him out most of the year, and Matthew's hurt his left foot that cost him the games that he missed.

But, except for injuries, all of the previous top 100 recruits played in every game of their freshman year, with Novak averaging the least amount fo time at 15.5 mpg.

Williams has played less than half the team's games thus far, with DNP's coming against Maryland-Eastern Shore, Xavier, Michigan, Florida State, NC State, Wisconsin, West Virginia and Villanova. For comparison, Frozena has gotten into as many games as Williams, 6 each.

Can any of you who have seen Williams play help explain these numbers? Is he just horrible when he is on the court? He has not played in a single game I have watched this year (Xavier, Mich, FSU, NC State, UW, WVU and Villanova) so I have nothing to base any opinion on.

Is he just a bust thus far (granted he is half way through his freshman year and has lots of time to play to potential)? Is he in the doghouse? What explains his lack of playing time, especially with Buzz only playing 7 players in most games?

[Hards Alumni]

He is a kid who has loads of potential, but needs to learn the game.

Recall that we have a head coach who is different from the coaches of previous top 100 recruits (except for the Maymon case).

Erik has played alright.  The stats you list are somewhat... incomplete.  They don't account for defense or fouls... both of which he has had problems with.

Additionally, I think early in the season Erik had a bit of a work ethic problem... though, I could be mistaken.

[Norm]

Hards_Alumni, thanks for the feed back. Here's some info on fouls:

Scott Merritt - 62 fouls, 0.118 fouls per minute, 2.138 fouls per game.
Travis Diener - 63 fouls, 0.081 fpm, 1.909 fpg.
Steve Novak - 54 fouls, 0.105 fpm, 1.636 fpg.
Dameon Mason - 58 fouls, 0.086 fpm, 1.871 fpg.
Dominic James - 74 fouls, 0.074 fpm, 2.387 fpg.
Jerel McNeal - 77 fouls, 0.090 fpm, 2.484 fpg.
Wes Matthews - 51 fouls, 0.089 fpm, 2.217 fpg.
Trevor Mbawke - 18 fouls, 0.178 fpm, 1.636 fpg.
Jeronne Maymon - 24 fouls, 0.163 fpm, 2.667 fpg.
Erik Williams - 12 fouls, 0.203 fpm, 2.000 fpg.

So, Williams does have the highest fouls per minute rate here, so maybe that's a reason why he sits so much.

[AlumKCof93]

Maybe he just isn't ready.  Buzz will put him in when he is.  It's the first half of his freshman year.  Slow down.  Any talk of him being a bust b/c he hasn't played much so far this year is ridiculous.

[Hards Alumni]

Hards_Alumni, thanks for the feed back. Here's some info on fouls:

Scott Merritt - 62 fouls, 0.118 fouls per minute, 2.138 fouls per game.
Travis Diener - 63 fouls, 0.081 fpm, 1.909 fpg.
Steve Novak - 54 fouls, 0.105 fpm, 1.636 fpg.
Dameon Mason - 58 fouls, 0.086 fpm, 1.871 fpg.
Dominic James - 74 fouls, 0.074 fpm, 2.387 fpg.
Jerel McNeal - 77 fouls, 0.090 fpm, 2.484 fpg.
Wes Matthews - 51 fouls, 0.089 fpm, 2.217 fpg.
Trevor Mbawke - 18 fouls, 0.178 fpm, 1.636 fpg.
Jeronne Maymon - 24 fouls, 0.163 fpm, 2.667 fpg.
Erik Williams - 12 fouls, 0.203 fpm, 2.000 fpg.

So, Williams does have the highest fouls per minute rate here, so maybe that's a reason why he sits so much.

Part of the problem is, he is a step slow on defense and is forced to foul to stop the easy bucket.  Does he have the ability to grow?  Absolutely.

[MR.HAYWARD]

diener and novak who were both significantly more highly rated and were lights out shooters.  apart form those two the other players you mentioned were all recruited to NIT caliber teams.  Merritt came onto a team with virtually zero talent, MAson, a guard, which makes a huge difference came to a depleeted team and played for an NIt team.  the 3 amigos came to ateam that absolutely stunk and was coming off of 2 staright NIt years in year 5 and 6 of Creans tenure. 

gurads are typically more ready to play than forwards and none of the guys you mnetion have a probabable top 5 all time scorer in front of them or had a guy like Butler there too. 

your list of players while all good players virtually started by default. 

[mosarsour]

Part of the problem is, he is a step slow on defense and is forced to foul to stop the easy bucket.  Does he have the ability to grow?  Absolutely.

Offensively...I believe he will really be a force over the next 3 years or so. But the kid looks lost on the defensive end and that's the reason for his lack of PT.

[HoopsMalone]

Though Novak may still have been in the top 100, it is interesting that he was only a 3 star on rivals:  http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Steve-Novak-436



According to rivals, Hayward was a 4-star and top 100:  http://rivals.yahoo.com/marquette/basketball/recruiting/player-Lazar-Hayward-39578



According to ESPN, Lazar's frosh stats are:
SEASON    TEAM  MIN PTS REB AST
2006-2007 MARQ 16.3 6.6  3.6  .3  

[bilsu]

Hards_Alumni, thanks for the feed back. Here's some info on fouls:

Scott Merritt - 62 fouls, 0.118 fouls per minute, 2.138 fouls per game.
Travis Diener - 63 fouls, 0.081 fpm, 1.909 fpg.
Steve Novak - 54 fouls, 0.105 fpm, 1.636 fpg.
Dameon Mason - 58 fouls, 0.086 fpm, 1.871 fpg.
Dominic James - 74 fouls, 0.074 fpm, 2.387 fpg.
Jerel McNeal - 77 fouls, 0.090 fpm, 2.484 fpg.
Wes Matthews - 51 fouls, 0.089 fpm, 2.217 fpg.
Trevor Mbawke - 18 fouls, 0.178 fpm, 1.636 fpg.
Jeronne Maymon - 24 fouls, 0.163 fpm, 2.667 fpg.
Erik Williams - 12 fouls, 0.203 fpm, 2.000 fpg.

So, Williams does have the highest fouls per minute rate here, so maybe that's a reason why he sits so much.

I think Eric's numbers are somewhat skewed becasue Buzz tends to take him out of the game when he makes a mistake like fouling.

[bilsu]

Part of the problem is, he is a step slow on defense and is forced to foul to stop the easy bucket.  Does he have the ability to grow?  Absolutely.

I do not think he is a step slow. I think he tries to play defense using his athleticism instead of his brain. He moves quickly without thinking, which results in him getting out of position.

[bma725]

While not a bad comparison, part of the problem with looking at playing time is you have to understand who/what was around the previous players when they came in compared to what E-Will has around him.

Williams best is really only capable of playing the 3 and 4, he's too skinny and doesn't understand defense enough to play the 5.  That means he's got to compete with Butler and Hayward, or if MU decides to go small, with DJO/Buycks.  Right now he's not better than any of those guys, which means he's going to sit.

When you look at the past Top 100 guys, they had ample playing time available right away.  The Amigos came to a team with only one other guard on the roster, Joe Chapman.  Merritt came to a team with centers that weren't even mid-major quality.  Mason was coming to a team that had an open perimeter spot.  Really only Diener came to a team with better players ahead of him at both his positions, and Crean changed the offense to be able to get him PT.

Can any of you who have seen Williams play help explain these numbers? Is he just horrible when he is on the court? He has not played in a single game I have watched this year (Xavier, Mich, FSU, NC State, UW, WVU and Villanova) so I have nothing to base any opinion on.

Is he just a bust thus far (granted he is half way through his freshman year and has lots of time to play to potential)? Is he in the doghouse? What explains his lack of playing time, especially with Buzz only playing 7 players in most games?

He's not ready.  Erik is a very talented kid, but came from a system that was designed to win games in HS, not get kids ready for college ball.  Even his HS coach said that he wasn't going to be ready for major playing time right away because he hadn't learned those things yet.  He played in a defense that had him as the shot blocking rover, meaning he never really got a chance to learn fundamental post defense or fundamental wing defense...hence he's way behind.

Offensively, he's ready to play.  He's got nice touch and has shown a nice handle, as well as an ability to crash the offensive boards.  But defensively, he's just lost.  For a team that already struggles defensively, that's a problem.  He gets into bad positions on the court, gets into bad physical positions, and doesn't seem to understand where to go or what to do...even when given specific instructions by the other players on the court.

I think it's way early to call him a bust.  Like Buzz said about Otule, Williams will be the kid that makes the greatest leap from freshman to sophomore year.  Remember, he essentially missed a year of playing/practice time with his foot injury and even after that didn't do as much playing as most kids his age.  He's trying to learn a completely new way of playing defense, which is never easy to do, especially as a team devotes practice time to game planning when the season starts.

[77ncaachamps]

This team needs consistent core of players who will make the game a competitive one.

Defensively, E-Will can block shots and grab rebounds. But even in the minutes he played, he looked lost on where to be.

Those mental lapses help to negate the small margin of error.

So, I hope he plays only when we most need him and when Buzz deems him ready.

[Marquette84]

diener and novak who were both significantly more highly rated and were lights out shooters.  apart form those two the other players you mentioned were all recruited to NIT caliber teams.  Merritt came onto a team with virtually zero talent, MAson, a guard, which makes a huge difference came to a depleeted team and played for an NIt team.  the 3 amigos came to ateam that absolutely stunk and was coming off of 2 staright NIt years in year 5 and 6 of Creans tenure. 

gurads are typically more ready to play than forwards and none of the guys you mnetion have a probabable top 5 all time scorer in front of them or had a guy like Butler there too. 
. 

Interesting.  You claim previous top 100 players only got significant minutes because they joined "NIT caliber" teams.

And you claim poor Erik Williams simply had the misfortune to join the team at a time when we're so deep in talent that he is the least-utilized top-100 player recruited to MU in over decade--probably since Lloyd Moore. 

Kind of kills the argument that "the cupboard is bare," don't you think? 

[NersEllenson]

Interesting.  You claim previous top 100 players only got significant minutes because they joined "NIT caliber" teams.

And you claim poor Erik Williams simply had the misfortune to join the team at a time when we're so deep in talent that he is the least-utilized top-100 player recruited to MU in over decade--probably since Lloyd Moore. 

Kind of kills the argument that "the cupboard is bare," don't you think? 

  I think the cupboard was pretty bare for this season.  But, as BMA wrote above..if you look at E_Wills natural or best position, he's got Jimmy Butler and Lazar ahead of him.  That being said, we are deep in talent at his position, largely due to Buzz being able to recruit Jimmy Butler, DJO, and Buycks.

[Norm]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

It sounds like Williams is very behind defensively. With that problem keeping him on the bench against all the decent teams that MU has played so far this year, combined with overcoming a past foot injury, should Marquette have red-shirted Williams this year?

If he is not good enough this year to relieve Butler and/or Hayward for at least 5 minutes against BE teams, couldn't we have red-shirted him to teach him the fundamentals that he lacks, giving him a greater chance to compete on the court for 4 years?

[MarquetteDano]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

It sounds like Williams is very behind defensively. With that problem keeping him on the bench against all the decent teams that MU has played so far this year, combined with overcoming a past foot injury, should Marquette have red-shirted Williams this year?

If he is not good enough this year to relieve Butler and/or Hayward for at least 5 minutes against BE teams, couldn't we have red-shirted him to teach him the fundamentals that he lacks, giving him a greater chance to compete on the court for 4 years?

Actually, it now looks like a really good move that we did NOT red-shirt him.  We are an injury away from him getting 20 mpg.

[TJ]

Actually, it now looks like a really good move that we did NOT red-shirt him.  We are an injury away from him getting 20 mpg.

You can pull a redshirt at any time.  He's not any extra prepared to step in for an injury because he's learned how to put on his uniform and warm up on the Al McGuire Court.

[TJ]

  I think the cupboard was pretty bare for this season.  But, as BMA wrote above..if you look at E_Wills natural or best position, he's got Jimmy Butler and Lazar ahead of him.  That being said, we are deep in talent at his position, largely due to Buzz being able to recruit Jimmy Butler, DJO, and Buycks.

The argument isn't whether Williams should be starting, it's whether he should be playing at all.  When you have a 7 man rotation (including Fulce!), there's no such thing as "deep in talent at his position."  As I haven't even seen him play more than 2 minutes this year, I have no idea whether he should play or not, but don't pretend there's just no minutes to spare.  The point isn't that Fulce or Williams should play ahead of Lazar or Jimmy, it's that they should play a little more so that Lazar and Jimmy don't have to play 38 or 39 minutes a game the rest of the way.

Honestly I think Fulce should be out there more to accomplish the goal of getting Lazar and Jimmy some rest during games.  He hustles, he gets rebounds, he defends alright, albeit making mistakes from time to time (but which of our defenders doesn't?).

[77ncaachamps]

My suspicion is if this season appears to be tanking, Buzz will give him the opportunity to play.

But since the conference season has just started, he'll keep to the more veteran crew.

[Lennys Tap]

Interesting.  You claim previous top 100 players only got significant minutes because they joined "NIT caliber" teams.

And you claim poor Erik Williams simply had the misfortune to join the team at a time when we're so deep in talent that he is the least-utilized top-100 player recruited to MU in over decade--probably since Lloyd Moore. 

Kind of kills the argument that "the cupboard is bare," don't you think? 

This year's team has 2 NCAA tourney caliber players - Hayward and Butler. Unfortunately they play the same position as Erik W.

[TJ]

Hayward and Butler. Unfortunately they play the same position as Erik W.

So Hayward and Butler split time at the 3, then there's 4 guards fighting for minutes at the 1 and 2, and then we have 2 empty spots on the floor?

"My team's on the floor."

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The argument isn't whether Williams should be starting, it's whether he should be playing at all.  When you have a 7 man rotation (including Fulce!), there's no such thing as "deep in talent at his position."  As I haven't even seen him play more than 2 minutes this year, I have no idea whether he should play or not, but don't pretend there's just no minutes to spare.  The point isn't that Fulce or Williams should play ahead of Lazar or Jimmy, it's that they should play a little more so that Lazar and Jimmy don't have to play 38 or 39 minutes a game the rest of the way.

Honestly I think Fulce should be out there more to accomplish the goal of getting Lazar and Jimmy some rest during games.  He hustles, he gets rebounds, he defends alright, albeit making mistakes from time to time (but which of our defenders doesn't?).

this.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

As I recall, there were games early in Novak's freshman year where he wasn't getting much playing time. In fact, I think it was the game at DePaul where he really broke out with something like 16 points. Prior to that, he wasn't doing much of anything...just going by memory, though.

Give Williams time, for chrissakes!!! Buzz has said several times how much he likes him. He'll come around!

[ATWizJr]

this.

Forgive my naivete but what does "this." mean as a post?

Thanks.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Just another lame way to say "+1" or "I agree" or "co-sign".

Look, Williams still might end up to be a good/great player. But, I am surprised that he hasn't been able to crack the 7 man rotation.

I mean really, who is the back-up PF right now? I know Fulce is splitting time at the 5 and 4, but even he's not getting that many minutes.

Lazar - Fulce
Butler - DJO?
Buycks - DJO
Cubby - ?
Acker  - ?

[Hards Alumni]

Just another lame way to say "+1" or "I agree" or "co-sign".

Look, Williams still might end up to be a good/great player. But, I am surprised that he hasn't been able to crack the 7 man rotation.

I mean really, who is the back-up PF right now? I know Fulce is splitting time at the 5 and 4, but even he's not getting that many minutes.

Lazar - Fulce
Butler - DJO?
Buycks - DJO
Cubby - ?
Acker  - ?

oh come on now 2k2, you know as well as anyone that we don't run a typical 1,2,3,4,5 lineup.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

oh come on now 2k2, you know as well as anyone that we don't run a typical 1,2,3,4,5 lineup.

Touche.

It's more like a:

1 (acker)
1.5 (cubby)
1.75 (buycks)
3.5 (Butler)
3.5 (Hayward)

With a 2.5* (DJO) and 3.75 (Fulce)

*He's really a "2", but is a 2/3 out of necessity.

[Marquette84]

As I recall, there were games early in Novak's freshman year where he wasn't getting much playing time. In fact, I think it was the game at DePaul where he really broke out with something like 16 points. Prior to that, he wasn't doing much of anything...just going by memory, though.

Give Williams time, for chrissakes!!! Buzz has said several times how much he likes him. He'll come around!

You recall incorrectly.  

In Steve Novak's first collegiate game (on the road no less, against Villanova at MSG) he tallied 16 minutes.  18 minutes in his 2nd game (Coppin State), 19 minutes in his third (UT-San Antonio), 15 minutes against EIU, 11 minutes against Notre Dame.

He dropped off a bit in his sixth and seventh games--8 minutes each vs. App State and Wisconsin, then rebounded to 19 and 23 minutes against Elon and Grambling.

He never posted a DNP.  His season low was 4 minutes versus Dayton--but that and a game against Cincy were the only two games that he did not get at least 8 minutes.  

[damuts222]

Regardless of his playing time this season, if he doesn't improve his defense over the remainder of the season as well as in the offseason then playing time may be hard to come by next season.

PG  Cadougan, Smith
SG  Vander Blue, Buycks
SF  DJO, Jamail Jones, Williams
PF  Butler, Fulce, Williams (insert recruit)
C  Otule, Mbao (insert recruit)

 I would hope that Buzz is not recruiting another guard in hopes that we are deeper at the SF/PF positions.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Interesting.  You claim previous top 100 players only got significant minutes because they joined "NIT caliber" teams.

And you claim poor Erik Williams simply had the misfortune to join the team at a time when we're so deep in talent that he is the least-utilized top-100 player recruited to MU in over decade--probably since Lloyd Moore. 

Kind of kills the argument that "the cupboard is bare," don't you think? 

Marquette 84 i feel really bad for you.  you obviously have some mental issues that you lurk around and then try to poke holes on a comment to try to prop your self up.    Is the Mu cupboard pretty bare due to 2-3 stright putrid recruiting classes by Crean ?  Yes.   Do we have 2 primetime performers at the 3/4 in Jimmy Butler ( a Buzz recruit) and hayward ( a crean recruit) yes we do.  as this season has shown it takes more than two...unfortunatley for Ewill's playing time that is the position he plays. 

So i am very sorry you sad little freak but there was no contradiction at all.   keep looking though and in the mean time see someone about your obsession and delusion,  and make sure to print out a copy of your delusional rant from last week and show that to the mental professional you choose.

[3Mer]

I'm surprised by the posts urging patience and criticizing those who question EW's potential.  Freshman or not, I'm concerned about a purported top recruit who can't get any playing time on team with a rotation this short.  

As Damuts222 points out, it won't get any easier to get PT next season

And I don't buy the logic that EW is DNPing because he plays the same position as Hayward and Butler.  We're not talking about starting, but rather whether EW is good enough just to spell LH and JB.  In that capacity, EW wouldn't be required to carry the team, but rather just avoid being a liability.  

It's concerning to me that Buzz doesn't trust EW enough this late in the season to get him even a few minutes each game.  Just sayin'.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

You recall incorrectly.  

8 minutes each vs. App State and Wisconsin
4 minutes versus Dayton
< 8 minutes vs. Cincy

I believe my direct quote was: "As I recall, there were games early in Novak's freshman year where he wasn't getting much playing time."

I love it when you research my assertions and prove me correct. Thanks.

[MR.HAYWARD]

I'm surprised by the posts urging patience and criticizing those who question EW's potential.  Freshman or not, I'm concerned about a purported top recruit who can't get any playing time on team with a rotation this short.  

As Damuts222 points out, it won't get any easier to get PT next season

And I don't buy the logic that EW is DNPing because he plays the same position as Hayward and Butler.  We're not talking about starting, but rather whether EW is good enough just to spell LH and JB.  In that capacity, EW wouldn't be required to carry the team, but rather just avoid being a liability.  

It's concerning to me that Buzz doesn't trust EW enough this late in the season to get him even a few minutes each game.  Just sayin'.

what the freak dont you get about it?  Buzz has said numerous times during his tenure that he will not put players in the game if he feels they are not ready for two reasons.  1. becuase it hurts our cause to win the game and 2. becuase it can crush there confidence.  he has stated this ad nauseum.  he has also stated that he at least at this time feels a tired Jimmy Butler or LAzar are still bettere than Ewill.  Just as last year he said he felt a tired DJ was better than acker and a tired Jerel or wes were better than Cubi.  I tend to agree with him.  regardless he is the coach and that is his feeling.  From everyhting I have seen he is right Ewill has a ton of potential but he is no where near zar or Jimmy right now.  Ma

maybe since you are so smart you ought to start lobbying the Villanova board and questioning jay Wright becuase their McDonalds all-american Forward Dominic Cheek is not playing either and he was a top 15 recruit.  

The best thing about Freshman is they become Sophomores- Al McGuire

[Norm]

I listened to Buzz's radio show last night and he seemed to say that Mbao and Williams don't play because they are a liability on defense and every possession is so precious that he can't afford to have them play because then the game may not be close at the end to give them a chance to pull it out.

But then he talks about how the last two games that the opponents are shooting 49% against Marquette, basically getting a basket every other trip down the court. they are also getting killed by teams driving to the basket on them.

I was at the game on Saturday and I watched as DJO, Buycks, Acker and Cubes struggled on defense. They all gave great effort and hustled throughout, but its not like their defense was stellar. Even Lazar and Jimmy had some bad defensive possessions. Now I know Williams doesn't play the same position as DJO, Buycks, Acker and Cubes, but they seem to have a little leeway when it comes to their defensive play that Williams and Mbao do not.

Now, I understand that Buzz does not want to compound the defensive problems by having Williams out there with Acker, Cubes, DJO and Buycks, but with either Butler or Hayward still in the game, that can be alleviated somewhat. If nothing else, they can help coach Williams on the floor and teach him things while the game is going on that he can benefit from in the future.

I hope Williams can start earning Buzz's trust and start getting some playing time soon.

[MR.HAYWARD]

one last comment before i leave this stupid thread, and i am ashamed with myself for even being sucked into this stupidity.  

Eric willimas is neither ready nor has he played in our "big games' those would be the games in orlando, nc State, wisco, and the BE games.  

In the true " buy games"  he has averaged 10 minutes a game.  including 13 and 15 minutes in the last 2 buy games.  can we please drop this stupid topic?  he will play when he is ready.  if he is never ready you can all rip Buzz for "another" recruitng blunder

[Norm]

Mr. Hayward,

Dominic Cheek played 7 minutes against Marquette - and he plays the same position that Scottie Reynolds does. Cheek has also played in every game this season for Villanova, playing 201 minutes thus far which averages about 15.5 minutes a game, along with 4.9 points per game.

[3Mer]

what the freak dont you get about it?  Buzz has said numerous times during his tenure that he will not put players in the game if he feels they are not ready for two reasons.  1. becuase it hurts our cause to win the game and 2. becuase it can crush there confidence.  he has stated this ad nauseum.  he has also stated that he at least at this time feels a tired Jimmy Butler or LAzar are still bettere than Ewill.  Just as last year he said he felt a tired DJ was better than acker and a tired Jerel or wes were better than Cubi.  I tend to agree with him.  regardless he is the coach and that is his feeling.  From everyhting I have seen he is right Ewill has a ton of potential but he is no where near zar or Jimmy right now.  Ma

maybe since you are so smart you ought to start lobbying the Villanova board and questioning jay Wright becuase their McDonalds all-american Forward Dominic Cheek is not playing either and he was a top 15 recruit.  

The best thing about Freshman is they become Sophomores- Al McGuire

I'm smart enough to note that MU's losses have come primarily in the second half -- after leading most of the game -- when the 7-man rotation was undoubtedly winded.  Case in point, Butler didn't go up strong in his final point-blank attempt against Nova despite playing strong around the rim all game long.

I'm also smart enough not to agree with every coaching decision Buzz ever makes.  As a season ticket holder, I think I'm entitled to second guess.

I thought the purpose of bulletin boards like this was discuss divergent opinions -- not jump all over anyone who isn't drinking the Kool Aid.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

what the freak dont you get about it?  Buzz has said numerous times during his tenure that he will not put players in the game if he feels they are not ready for two reasons.  1. becuase it hurts our cause to win the game and 2. becuase it can crush there confidence.  he has stated this ad nauseum.  he has also stated that he at least at this time feels a tired Jimmy Butler or LAzar are still bettere than Ewill.  Just as last year he said he felt a tired DJ was better than acker and a tired Jerel or wes were better than Cubi.  I tend to agree with him.  regardless he is the coach and that is his feeling.  From everyhting I have seen he is right Ewill has a ton of potential but he is no where near zar or Jimmy right now.  Ma

maybe since you are so smart you ought to start lobbying the Villanova board and questioning jay Wright becuase their McDonalds all-american Forward Dominic Cheek is not playing either and he was a top 15 recruit.  

The best thing about Freshman is they become Sophomores- Al McGuire

I don't know if anybody is trying to "rip buzz".

I just think people are surprised that a top 100 recruit can't crack the 7 man rotation.

I don't think it means Williams was a mistake, and I don't think it means Buzz can't coach.

I just find it surprising and possibly concerning (GASP!).

We'll have to see what happens in the future.

[Hards Alumni]

Regardless of his playing time this season, if he doesn't improve his defense over the remainder of the season as well as in the offseason then playing time may be hard to come by next season.

PG  Cadougan, Smith
SG  Vander Blue, Buycks
SF  DJO, Jamail Jones, Williams
PF  Butler, Fulce, Williams (insert recruit)
C  Otule, Mbao (insert recruit)

 I would hope that Buzz is not recruiting another guard in hopes that we are deeper at the SF/PF positions.

No.  What makes you think that:
1. DJO is a SF?  He is a PG/SG
2. JJ is going to start over EW?  Who says JJ can play defense?  And who says he can do it at a major level as a Frosh?
3. MU plays any sort of a traditional lineup?  We play the best 5 guys we have available.  This year, its 3 guards and 2 forwards... It could be any combo next year.

[damuts222]

No.  What makes you think that:
1. DJO is a SF?  He is a PG/SG
2. JJ is going to start over EW?  Who says JJ can play defense?  And who says he can do it at a major level as a Frosh?
3. MU plays any sort of a traditional lineup?  We play the best 5 guys we have available.  This year, its 3 guards and 2 forwards... It could be any combo next year.

 I just meant to put a traditional lineup in there and DJO is a guard but he will start before Jones/Williams. I'm not saying Jones is better than Williams it is just our depth, it was in no order for the SF position except the DJO will most likely start. I know that MU does not play a traditional lineup and probably won't next year.

[HoopsMalone]

PG  Cadougan, Smith
SG  Vander Blue, Buycks
SF  DJO, Jamail Jones, Williams
PF  Butler, Fulce, Williams (insert recruit)
C  Otule, Mbao (insert recruit)

I hope we are not seeing Jimmy at the 4 for very long, though it may happen.  EWill is pretty talented offensively, so hopefully something can click in his head over the offseason that we can get im at the 4.
Id like to see:
1- Junior
2- Blue
3- Jimmy
4- EWill
5- Otule

Butler as captain playing 35 mins/game.  Butler and Blue taking most of the shots.  Instant offense off the bench in DJO, sometimes pushing Jimmy to the 4.  Mbao and Fulce being able to contribute 10 mins inside.  Jones getting a little time too.  I was under the impression that Smith was pretty raw, So I'd like to see Buycks getting time at the point over him.  Buzz has shown he won't rush players out there too.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I hope we are not seeing Jimmy at the 4 for very long, though it may happen.  EWill is pretty talented offensively, so hopefully something can click in his head over the offseason that we can get im at the 4.
Id like to see:
1- Junior
2- Blue
3- Jimmy
4- EWill
5- Otule

Butler as captain playing 35 mins/game.  Butler and Blue taking most of the shots.  Instant offense off the bench in DJO, sometimes pushing Jimmy to the 4.  Mbao and Fulce being able to contribute 10 mins inside.  Jones getting a little time too.  I was under the impression that Smith was pretty raw, So I'd like to see Buycks getting time at the point over him.  Buzz has shown he won't rush players out there too.  

I agree with everything you say here.

However, my one concern is getting Jimmy more comfortable/aggressive on the outside. He already shoots pretty well (good percentage, good selection), but he probably needs to be a little quicker to pull the trigger to be an effective "3". He passes up a lot of jump shots, which isn't a problem when he's playing "4", but could be problematic in the line-up you describe.

It's not a huge jump for him to become more comfortable/aggressive with his 3pt shot. Coaches just really need to get after him about it.

Also, I love DJO off of the bench as instant O. He's certainly talented enough to start, but I like the idea of him coming into the game chucking. 

[HoopsMalone]

It's not a huge jump for him to become more comfortable/aggressive with his 3pt shot. Coaches just really need to get after him about it.

Also, I love DJO off of the bench as instant O. He's certainly talented enough to start, but I like the idea of him coming into the game chucking. 

Good point about Jimmy.  He seems to consistently improve so you are right it is not a huge jump for him to improve his shooting and play on the wing.  I'd much rather have a team with Jimmy playing the wing and Williams' inside.  On offense Williams can shoot and Jimmy can score in the paint so it doesn't matter who is the 3 or 4.  Defensively, I would love to see EWill's shot blocking and Jimmy defending their best wing player.  EWill will probably not be Maurice Lucas defensively, but his length can matter. 

Also, if Jimmy can play the best wing player rather than the best post player, it would take pressue off of Vander Blue as a freshman.  Blue sounds like he can defend, but asking him to guard the best wing players in the Big East and be probably one of our three leading scorers would be a lot. 

Im only basing my opinion about Blue based on hearsay, but he sounds like a complete player and Buzz will want to make him the first or second option on offense.  Starting DJO along with Blue would take shots away from Blue.  Separting their playing time at the beginning might be the best way to use them both.  Plus, its always nice to have a player come in the game that the opposition cannot defend.

I think Blue, Jimmy, and DJO are going to produce.  Cadougan and Williams living up to their top 100 hype and starting at the 1 and the 4, and Buycks playing a good role on the team are the keys to MU next year.  Plus the broken record of production at the 5... though you'd think that Otule/Mbao/Fulce can at least give as much as Burke/Barro/Grimm if not more. 

[Marquette84]

Marquette 84 i feel really bad for you.  you obviously have some mental issues that you lurk around and then try to poke holes on a comment to try to prop your self up.    Is the Mu cupboard pretty bare due to 2-3 stright putrid recruiting classes by Crean ?  Yes.   Do we have 2 primetime performers at the 3/4 in Jimmy Butler ( a Buzz recruit) and hayward ( a crean recruit) yes we do.  as this season has shown it takes more than two...unfortunatley for Ewill's playing time that is the position he plays. 

So i am very sorry you sad little freak but there was no contradiction at all.   keep looking though and in the mean time see someone about your obsession and delusion,  and make sure to print out a copy of your delusional rant from last week and show that to the mental professional you choose.

Do you really believe that if you insult a person enough it makes up for faulty reasoning and illogical posts?

Williams and Butler are frequently on the court at the same time.  That makes your contention that "they play the same position" incorrect.  They obviously can play different positions--the proof is that they often are on the court together.

Let's take this to a fundamental level--we have 120 minutes combined at the 3, 4, and 5 spots--where both Butler and Hayward are capable of playing and have played this season.  Even if both play a full 40 minutes per game each, that's 40 additional minutes that Erik Williams could play.   

But in reality, Hayward is only averaging 29 mpg, and Butler only 31 mpg.  Which means there are roughly 60 available minutes per game across the 3, 4 and 5 slots in which Williams could play. 

There may be reasons why Williams isn't playing--your contention Butler and Hayward take up alll the minutes clearly isn't one of them.

More interesting is that while YOU complain about those "putrid" recruiting classes, Buzz gives 28 minutes a game to Cubilllan, and 24 minutes per game to Acker.  Even if we accept that Acker and Cuby HAVE to play the point because of the injury to Cadougan, it doesn't explain why they're playing 10-12 mpg MORE than the 40 mpg we need filled at the PG spot!

Buzz COULD limit Acker and Cuby to a combined 40 mpg at the point.

That gives him 12 more minutes to give to Buycks and DJO at the 2.

Which gives him 12 more minutes (in addition to the 60 identified above) at the 3/4/5. 

So despite your insults, its those "putrid" recruits that are really taking minutes from Buzz's top 100 recruit--not Butler and Hayward. 

Which means that the cupboard isn't as empty as you continue to make it out to be. 






 

[GGGG]

Why do you (and others) keep bringing up traditional positions...1-5?

Today's college basketball isn't about traditional positions.  It is about putting your best players on the floor and running motion offenses to get open shots.  Of course you have to make substitutions as match-ups warrant, but Buzz could very well be playing four guards and Butler next year if we can't get the offense we need from Williams, Jones and whatever big body we can trot out there.

[Hards Alumni]

Do you really believe that if you insult a person enough it makes up for faulty reasoning and illogical posts?

Williams and Butler are frequently on the court at the same time.  That makes your contention that "they play the same position" incorrect.  They obviously can play different positions--the proof is that they often are on the court together.

Let's take this to a fundamental level--we have 120 minutes combined at the 3, 4, and 5 spots--where both Butler and Hayward are capable of playing and have played this season.  Even if both play a full 40 minutes per game each, that's 40 additional minutes that Erik Williams could play.   

But in reality, Hayward is only averaging 29 mpg, and Butler only 31 mpg.  Which means there are roughly 60 available minutes per game across the 3, 4 and 5 slots in which Williams could play. 

There may be reasons why Williams isn't playing--your contention Butler and Hayward take up alll the minutes clearly isn't one of them.

More interesting is that while YOU complain about those "putrid" recruiting classes, Buzz gives 28 minutes a game to Cubilllan, and 24 minutes per game to Acker.  Even if we accept that Acker and Cuby HAVE to play the point because of the injury to Cadougan, it doesn't explain why they're playing 10-12 mpg MORE than the 40 mpg we need filled at the PG spot!

Buzz COULD limit Acker and Cuby to a combined 40 mpg at the point.

That gives him 12 more minutes to give to Buycks and DJO at the 2.

Which gives him 12 more minutes (in addition to the 60 identified above) at the 3/4/5. 

So despite your insults, its those "putrid" recruits that are really taking minutes from Buzz's top 100 recruit--not Butler and Hayward. 

Which means that the cupboard isn't as empty as you continue to make it out to be. 






 

Its okay, you don't get it, we understand.

[TJ]

Why do you (and others) keep bringing up traditional positions...1-5?

Today's college basketball isn't about traditional positions.  It is about putting your best players on the floor and running motion offenses to get open shots.  Of course you have to make substitutions as match-ups warrant, but Buzz could very well be playing four guards and Butler next year if we can't get the offense we need from Williams, Jones and whatever big body we can trot out there.

Because one of the reasons given so far for Williams lack of playing time is that he is behind both Lazar and Jimmy at his natural position.

[GGGG]

Because one of the reasons given so far for Williams lack of playing time is that he is behind both Lazar and Jimmy at his natural position.

If he could play defense, there would be playing time available for him.  Believe me.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If he could play defense, there would be playing time available for him.  Believe me.

Well, whatever the reason, I find it surprising that he can't crack the top 7 on this team.

He still could turn out to be a good player, just surprise by his lack of PT.

[TJ]

If he could play defense, there would be playing time available for him.  Believe me.

Again, I haven't seen him so I have no idea.  But the most common complaint around here this year is that no one can play defense - so he must be truly awful...

[Doctor V]

Again, I haven't seen him so I have no idea.  But the most common complaint around here this year is that no one can play defense - so he must be truly awful...

hard to believe that he is much worse than acker on D. also, correct me if im wrong but i recall that one of his strong suits listed as a top 100 recruit was his defensive ability and 'uncanny' shot blocking potential. i know i know its high school and hes stuffing midgets, but at some point u have to look at the coaching staff and wonder why they cant make this kid atleast 5-7mpg useful

[bma725]

hard to believe that he is much worse than acker on D. also, correct me if im wrong but i recall that one of his strong suits listed as a top 100 recruit was his defensive ability and 'uncanny' shot blocking potential. i know i know its high school and hes stuffing midgets, but at some point u have to look at the coaching staff and wonder why they cant make this kid atleast 5-7mpg useful

His defense was evaluated as strong solely because of his shot blocking ability.  Every other part of his defensive game was evaluated as below average because he'd never developed them.

[tower912]

IIRC, he was the biggest guy on his team, stood in the middle of the zone and blocked shots.    He never had to guard the equivalent of a D1 3-4 man to man.   He didn't worry about defensive rotations because he just patrolled the middle, blocked shots and rebounded.    Now, he isn't the biggest kid anymore and has to learn to play against guys his size or bigger who can put it on the floor.    According to Buzz, and what most of us have seen and recognized with our own eyes,  he hasn't mastered Buzz' man to man defense.   He has the physical ability to succeed at this level.    He hasn't learned enough, yet.