MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: HutchwasClutch on May 30, 2014, 11:47:32 PM
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Would love to see him make it, offensively he's good enough, but who could he guard at an NBA level? And he's a 4 at the NBA level where you have a ton of athleticism and skill. Best of luck Davante, I'll miss him a ton.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/bucks/former-marquette-center-davante-gardner-back-in-town-to-show-skills-b99281044z1-261336991.html
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Would love to see him make it, offensively he's good enough, but who could he guard at an NBA level? And he's a 4 at the NBA level where you have a ton of athleticism and skill. Best of luck Davante, I'll miss him a ton.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/bucks/former-marquette-center-davante-gardner-back-in-town-to-show-skills-b99281044z1-261336991.html
By asking the question, you essentially answered the question. He wouldn't be able to guard anyone in the NBA. Big Baby Davis is the most comparable player to Davante in the NBA, and Big Baby is a much, much better athlete than Davante, and I'm guessing when looking at actual heights has at least a couple inches on Davante. He was fun to watch in college.
I think Vander has a better chance of sticking to an NBA roster than Davante does, and Vander is a shooting guard who is a significantly worse shooter than the 6'8", 300 lb. Gardner.
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By asking the question, you essentially answered the question.
It was a rhetorical question WW
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Having just watched several games including Luis Scola, I see a lot of similarities with Davante. Sneaky, good footwork, below the rim, good mid range shot, no D.
Big Baby is a common comparison because he's also fat, but his game is more about positioning and rebounding.
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Scola is a good comparison, though more athletic than Davante.
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Having just watched several games including Luis Scola, I see a lot of similarities with Davante. Sneaky, good footwork, below the rim, good mid range shot, no D.
Big Baby is a common comparison because he's also fat, but his game is more about positioning and rebounding.
I think this may be the first time a scooper legitimately compared a black player's game to a non-black player's game. It has finally happened!
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The new owners have paid a fortune for the Bucks. From a business standpoint it would make sense to have their last roster spot filled by a very popular collegian.
The other thing worth considering is that Davante could evolve into a modern day Wes Unseld of sorts.
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The new owners have paid a fortune for the Bucks. From a business standpoint it would make sense to have their last roster spot filled by a very popular collegian.
The other thing worth considering is that Davante could evolve into a modern day Wes Unseld of sorts.
Disagree with both of your points. If you're going to make your 13th roster spot someone to sell tickets, you give it to a former NBA superstar who has connections to the city. Something like Philly giving AI a spot on the team. If you're giving a roster spot to a rookie, you're taking someone who may not be ready to contribute but may have some potential to do so in a few years. At any rate, in my opinion, you do not give a roster spot just to sell an extra 20(?) tickets per game and a couple hundred Bucks jerseys. Put together the best, most talented (or potential talent) roster that you can.
I love Davante, loved what he did at Marquette, but I just do not see him being an effective professional. He definitely has the offensive footwork/foot speed, but how many 6'6" (what I'm guessing he really measures out at) below the rim players are there in the NBA? And then on the defensive end he's undersized to even guard the 4, let alone the lack of athleticism. I just imagine him trying to guard a Blake Griffin or Dirk Nowitzki. That would not end well for Gardner.
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NBA summer rosters need bodies for practice. Happy davante gets a look but I'd be shocked if he made an NBA roster. Great college player. Should make some money in Europe or for an NFL team.
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A great comparison to devante that I haven't heard on here is Jared Sullinger. Sullinger is also a Short(6'9) PF in the NBA who is a below the rim player. He can't really jump and he's not at all a shot blocker. He does have a large wingspan which helps but I don't know what devantes wingspan is like. He was a better college player than devante, but comparable(17pts and 10rebs vs. 15 and 6 for Gardner). Sullinger has played really well for the celtics (13ppg and 8rpg) and he will have a long career in the NBA. Gardner has a similar knack for clearing space underneath the hoop and using his craftiness to score. So many scouts focus mainly on numbers(height,reach,vert,speed) but this stuff is only so meaningful. there is something to be said for a 4 year player who had a great career who can play. I think in the right situation devante could score 10 points a game in the NBA, I hope he gets a chance.
The Truth
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Sullinger official measurements
Height:6'7.75
Weight:268
Wingspan:7'1.25
Pts per 40 mins:23
Rebs per 40 mins:12
Devante official measurements
Height:6'6.75
Weight:288
Wingspan:7'1.25
Pts per 40 mins:22
Rebs per 40 mins:9
THE NUMBERS LOOK PRETTY SIMILAR TO ME
THE TRUTH
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Sullinger official measurements
Height:6'7.75
Weight:268
Wingspan:7'1.25
Pts per 40 mins:23
Rebs per 40 mins:12
Devante official measurements
Height:6'6.75
Weight:288
Wingspan:7'1.25
Pts per 40 mins:22
Rebs per 40 mins:9
THE NUMBERS LOOK PRETTY SIMILAR TO ME
THE TRUTH
A fair comparison. Until you include sullengers defense, athleticism, three point shooting, and shot blocking ability
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A fair comparison. Until you include sullengers defense, athleticism, three point shooting, and shot blocking ability
One can only guess at how Gardner's development was stunted by Bert. It's time to take the chains off and unleash the Ox. He is rested, revitalized, resurgent, and ready.
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A fair comparison. Until you include sullengers defense, athleticism, three point shooting, and shot blocking ability
you clearly haven't watched sullinger all that closely buddy. He averaged 0.7 blocks per game this year compared to Davante's 0.5. Huge difference right? Sullinger also shot a whopping 26% from 3pt range this year. I'd say that's less than stellar. And sullingers defense needs a lot of work. During his rookie year when he played with KG and Pierce(The Truth) on TV you would always hear them yelling "Sully" because he screwed up on his assignment. He was a good rebounder and scorer but a defensive liability. And when I think of sullinger, I don't immediately think of his athleticism. He barely ever dunks or makes above the rim plays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS7vHsK4wHE
This play really displays sullingers "defense, athleticism, and shot blocking ability" that you were speaking so highly of.
I don't mean to bad talk Sullinger at all, I think he's a quality player who could very possibly be an all star someday. You clearly just don't understand the strengths and weaknesses of his game. If Gardner could be anywhere near the type of player that sully is, then he will have a nice nba career.
The Truth
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you clearly haven't watched sullinger all that closely buddy. He averaged 0.7 blocks per game this year compared to Davante's 0.5. Huge difference right? Sullinger also shot a whopping 26% from 3pt range this year. I'd say that's less than stellar. And sullingers defense needs a lot of work. During his rookie year when he played with KG and Pierce(The Truth) on TV you would always hear them yelling "Sully" because he screwed up on his assignment. He was a good rebounder and scorer but a defensive liability. And when I think of sullinger, I don't immediately think of his athleticism. He barely ever dunks or makes above the rim plays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS7vHsK4wHE
This play really displays sullingers "defense, athleticism, and shot blocking ability" that you were speaking so highly of.
I don't mean to bad talk Sullinger at all, I think he's a quality player who could very possibly be an all star someday. You clearly just don't understand the strengths and weaknesses of his game. If Gardner could be anywhere near the type of player that sully is, then he will have a nice nba career.
The Truth
Why are you trying to compare Sullinger's NBA stats to Davante's college stats? Take a look at Sullinger's senior year of college where he averaged 1.5 bpg (or 1 bpg more than Davante) and shot 36% from 3. Also, look at clips from Sullinger's senior year where he dominated the post. And Sullinger is three times the athlete that Gardner is.
I love me some ox but to say he is the same as a former 1st round pick is misinformed. Davante isn't sniffing the draft.
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A great comparison to devante that I haven't heard on here is Jared Sullinger. Sullinger is also a Short(6'9) PF in the NBA who is a below the rim player. He can't really jump and he's not at all a shot blocker. He does have a large wingspan which helps but I don't know what devantes wingspan is like. He was a better college player than devante, but comparable(17pts and 10rebs vs. 15 and 6 for Gardner). Sullinger has played really well for the celtics (13ppg and 8rpg) and he will have a long career in the NBA. Gardner has a similar knack for clearing space underneath the hoop and using his craftiness to score. So many scouts focus mainly on numbers(height,reach,vert,speed) but this stuff is only so meaningful. there is something to be said for a 4 year player who had a great career who can play. I think in the right situation devante could score 10 points a game in the NBA, I hope he gets a chance.
The Truth
Agree with all your analysis...I was SHOCKED Sullinger fell as far as he did in the draft - had no doubt he'd be a productive player, as the guy was incredibly productive at Ohio State. He fell....simply because of his measurables - not his ability to play basketball. Scouts in NBA and NFL frequently, and drastically overrate the athletic measurables, while simultaneously discounting actually production and ability to play the game.
There have been many combine warriors - Mike Mamula, AJ Hawk, Matt Jones - who all turned out to be far less of players than their combine measurables would suggest. Jimmy Johnson was a GREAT evaluator of talent, and one who didn't get caught up in measurables. Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin were quite marginal at their positions in the way of measurables...yet unbelievably productive. Davante could be the same...at the NBA level.
And D is a two way street - I'd hate to see Dirk Nowitzki try to defend Davante Gardner on the block...He'd foul Dirk out in 20 minutes.
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Sullinger didn't drop due to lack of athletic measurables. He dropped due to concerns about his back. He was projected as a lottery pick right up until that point.
http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8069495/2012-nba-draft-docs-medically-red-flag-jared-sullinger-sources-say
"ESPN.com currently has Sullinger, who who missed two games for Ohio State in early December with back spasms, slated to go No. 10 in Mock Draft 7.0. However, such news may cause Sullinger to free fall in next week's draft."
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Agree with all your analysis...I was SHOCKED Sullinger fell as far as he did in the draft - had no doubt he'd be a productive player, as the guy was incredibly productive at Ohio State. He fell....simply because of his measurables - not his ability to play basketball. Scouts in NBA and NFL frequently, and drastically overrate the athletic measurables, while simultaneously discounting actually production and ability to play the game.
There have been many combine warriors - Mike Mamula, AJ Hawk, Matt Jones - who all turned out to be far less of players than their combine measurables would suggest. Jimmy Johnson was a GREAT evaluator of talent, and one who didn't get caught up in measurables. Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin were quite marginal at their positions in the way of measurables...yet unbelievably productive. Davante could be the same...at the NBA level.
And D is a two way street - I'd hate to see Dirk Nowitzki try to defend Davante Gardner on the block...He'd foul Dirk out in 20 minutes.
Dirk is a 7 footer. He'd have no problem guarding a 6'6" Gardner. He guards much more skilled 4s every night in the NBA. Again, I love Davante, but to pretend Davante would foul out Dirk Nowitki in 20 minutes is comical. Davante wouldn't make it 20 minutes on the court trying to chase around Dirk defensively.
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Dirk is a 7 footer. He'd have no problem guarding a 6'6" Gardner. He guards much more skilled 4s every night in the NBA. Again, I love Davante, but to pretend Davante would foul out Dirk Nowitki in 20 minutes is comical. Davante wouldn't make it 20 minutes on the court trying to chase around Dirk defensively.
I agree Davante would struggle mightily chasing a Hall of Fame 7 foot rarity around the perimeter. Where we disagree of course is that this rail thin 7' guy wouldn't struggle mightily against Davante on the block. Davante faced plenty of 6'10" + guys during his career with much more girth than Dirk, and generally abused them one on one EVERY time. Height doesn't matter a whole lot defensively on the block, if you are facing a guy with superior strength and girth that can clear space through his body.
Yes, I think it is a stretch for Davante to make an NBA team, yet it wouldn't surprise me if he did at some point in next few years if he puts in the work. He's incredibly skilled and talented. Yes, he'll struggle to defend at the NBA level - yet I feel many NBA defenders would struggle to defend him. I recall Davante simply abusing Zeller from North Carolina as a freshman in the NCAA game...and I believe Zeller went on to an NBA career?
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Disagree with both of your points. If you're going to make your 13th roster spot someone to sell tickets, you give it to a former NBA superstar who has connections to the city. Something like Philly giving AI a spot on the team. If you're giving a roster spot to a rookie, you're taking someone who may not be ready to contribute but may have some potential to do so in a few years. At any rate, in my opinion, you do not give a roster spot just to sell an extra 20(?) tickets per game and a couple hundred Bucks jerseys. Put together the best, most talented (or potential talent) roster that you can.
I love Davante, loved what he did at Marquette, but I just do not see him being an effective professional. He definitely has the offensive footwork/foot speed, but how many 6'6" (what I'm guessing he really measures out at) below the rim players are there in the NBA? And then on the defensive end he's undersized to even guard the 4, let alone the lack of athleticism. I just imagine him trying to guard a Blake Griffin or Dirk Nowitzki. That would not end well for Gardner.
Can you name the Bucks 13th player? Does he really contribute?
Did you ever see actually seWes Unseld play?
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Can you name the Bucks 13th player? Does he really contribute?
Did you ever see actually seWes Unseld play?
I can't name him because he has a crazy, long, hard to spell Serbian name. So no, I cannot. Did he contribute this year? Not really. But he's in his mid 20s and is 7' tall and like 250 lbs. Physically, he has the potential to turn into a player who contributes. A 6'6" 290 lb. center does not have the potential to do much in the NBA. 7' 290 maybe we can talk.
I never saw Wes Unseld play, but he was 6'7" and 245 lbs. He had an extra inch and 45 less lbs. to carry around. He also averaged 14 rebounds per game for his entire NBA career. Gardner is an awful rebounder at anything that is not his own miss, and he wouldn't be nearly as good at rebounding his own miss against NBA post players as he was in college.
Again, I hate sounding like a Davante hater because I loved the guy, he was an awesome college player, but he is just not an NBA player, and you do not waste a spot on a 13 man roster just in case 5 extra Marquette fans may buy tickets each home game to watch the guy sit in a seat for 48 minutes.
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Lets see if somebody picks him up for the summer league. That showcases him for Europe, and other countries. Just saw Ray Nixon at the WAC on Port Rd., he has been in Japan for 4
years making a living, averaged 9.7 last year. I have been to Japan, very expensive. He said no problem, room and board taken care of. Not a bad gig for an average college player.
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Lets see if somebody picks him up for the summer league. That showcases him for Europe, and other countries. Just saw Ray Nixon at the WAC on Port Rd., he has been in Japan for 4
years making a living, averaged 9.7 last year. I have been to Japan, very expensive. He said no problem, room and board taken care of. Not a bad gig for an average college player.
Ray Nixon. That's a name I haven't heard in a little while. Where did he go to high school? I wanted to say Tosa East but I am pretty sure that is not right (I know Devin Harris, Scott Merritt, and Jerry Smith were Raiders).
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Dominican
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The new owners have paid a fortune for the Bucks. From a business standpoint it would make sense to have their last roster spot filled by a very popular collegian.
The other thing worth considering is that Davante could evolve into a modern day Wes Unseld of sorts.
So you're making the leap with Davante (pun intended) - from undrafted free agent to one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history.
Nah, I don't think so. Maybe comparing him to Dujuan Blair is a little more reasonable - but I still say No to that.
And it makes no business sense to keep an inferior player over someone who may help the team.
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Wow, this thread is simply amazing.
He's the next Wes Unseld.
He'll average 10 points PER GAME.
He will foul out Dirk in 20 minutes.
Question: Aside from the Bucks, how many personal workouts has DG gone on? hmmm
I'd love to see DG guard Dirk at the three point arc. That would be funny.
My opinion: DG's upside is playing in Europe and MAYBE getting a 10 day contract where he plays garbage minutes...or seconds in a single blow out game. you guys understand that every nba head coach as 3-5 DNP players on the bench, right? So DG is not only going to beat out the best D League players but also put himself in a position where he is going to see the floor when Dirk sees the floor....or that he will see the floor enough to leapfrog all the guys in the nba that don't play AND average 10 points per game? Sorry but this is hilarious. I could go on but it's such a stupid argument I'll stop now.
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Davante will get invited to a camp somewhere so we will see. I doubt he's going to stick anywhere, but he's make his living playing basketball for awhile.
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Wow, this thread is simply amazing.
He's the next Wes Unseld.
He'll average 10 points PER GAME.
He will foul out Dirk in 20 minutes.
Question: Aside from the Bucks, how many personal workouts has DG gone on? hmmm
I'd love to see DG guard Dirk at the three point arc. That would be funny.
My opinion: DG's upside is playing in Europe and MAYBE getting a 10 day contract where he plays garbage minutes...or seconds in a single blow out game. you guys understand that every nba head coach as 3-5 DNP players on the bench, right? So DG is not only going to beat out the best D League players but also put himself in a position where he is going to see the floor when Dirk sees the floor....or that he will see the floor enough to leapfrog all the guys in the nba that don't play AND average 10 points per game? Sorry but this is hilarious. I could go on but it's such a stupid argument I'll stop now.
Your point is well taken...in my heart do I believe Davante would ever get in a game and guard Dirk Nowitzki?? No. However, in the hypothetical event they were matched up on each other...Davante would pose a handful of problems for a guy like Dirk defensively....just as Davante created hell for all the college guys who tried to stop him one on one. Yes....I realize...they are just college players and not NBA level....yet Dirk isn't playing in the league due to his defensive prowess. There is a premium for guys who can put the ball in the bucket at a highly efficient rate...and that is a talent Davante has...and it beared itself out all 4 years at MU....it wasn't a fluke...nor do I think it was a fluke he was named MVP at Portsmouth. Hope he doesn't get drafted...so he can do the Wes....and pick the team he wants to go try out for...as it wouldn't surprise me to see him stick in the right situation...particularly if he's hard at work at IMG on his conditioning.
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Davante would have plenty of trouble offensively in the NBA, too.
Immobile, unathletic, 6-6 post players who take forever to get themselves into prime scoring position tend not to fare very well against some of the greatest athletic freaks on the planet.
Wes Unseld comparisons ... those are too funny. Yes, by all means, let's compare a second-team all-conference player to one of the great rebounders in basketball history, not to mention a guy who was a defensive force for more than a decade.
Basketball history is filled with very good college players who never get a sniff at the NBA. And as much as I appreciate what Gardner did at MU, he will just be another one of those.
Let's be real, people!
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Your point is well taken...in my heart do I believe Davante would ever get in a game and guard Dirk Nowitzki?? No. However, in the hypothetical event they were matched up on each other...Davante would pose a handful of problems for a guy like Dirk defensively....just as Davante created hell for all the college guys who tried to stop him one on one.
Almost as silly as the Unseld comparison.
Is there a "better than Kareem" argument out there ;D