What is DePoint of DePaul?

[CTWarrior]

True. I probably said, "What an effen pass!" at least a half-dozen times yesterday, and a couple of those were for Oso.

As I said in another thread, I wish we had played Providence or Xavier or even at Creighton last night because I think we'd have beaten anybody. Very high level of determination and focus, and it wasn't just because Depaul was the opponent. Indeed, playing a JV team could've made it more difficult to focus.

Let's not get carried away.  A lot of those brilliant passes would have been thwarted or could not even have been attempted against defenders with a pulse.  Watching that game was almost as brutal as watching the NBA all-star game (I imagine).  I'm glad we throttled them like we should have, but I would posit that that game didn't tell us much of anything about anything.  Maybe Kam got some confidence out of it or something, but he makes almost all of them in warmups when nobody is guarding him, too.  Looking forward to X and some real hoops this weekend.  I do think that UConn was just a game where everything pointed to a bad day and that we are ready to roll now, assuming health.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Potential: depaul  is by a decent bit the second largest school in the big east, that means how many exponentially more stakeholders between alumni, staff, parents that could watch. Additionally they're in, by quite a decent bit, the second largest metro area in the conference. If we say a good big east team brings in 10% of casual non affiliated observers from a market then you'd want that 10% to be from a 9million metro not from a small satellite city regardless how rabid the fanbase is.

Positives for us: Lastly DePaul gives the teams that do try a rallying event in a large market. I'd guarantee us, Creighton Butler and X all have their second largest alumni bases in Chicagoland. Playing here once is a huge opportunity to increase engagement among alumni and Increase their presence in front of potential students.

Recruiting: Lastly recruiting, Chicago isn't what it once was thanks to prep schools but it's still a pretty important area to keep and selling kids on being able to play in front of their friends & family every year is certainly a selling point.


All that said if Loyola wanted to pitch playing at the UC or wintrust id swap the pair in an instant.

I agree with all of this, which is why keeping DePaul makes sense, and is most definitely going to be the case. But none of this matters until they get decent.

[TallTitan34]

I don't think the Big East ever kicks out DePaul but for the sake of argument...

Loyola
Endowment: $1.072 billion
Students: 17,159
Final Fours: 2
National Championships: 1
2024 Average Home Attendance: 2,787

DePaul
Endowment: $907.6 million
Students: 22,437
Final Fours: 2
National Championships: 0
2024 Average Home Attendance: 3,684 (with a Marquette bump)

[1SE]

Never take a university where after hearing its name you have to ask "which one?"

https://blogs.luc.edu/uao/2015/03/10/9-loyola-myths/

[MU82]

Let's not get carried away.  A lot of those brilliant passes would have been thwarted or could not even have been attempted against defenders with a pulse.  Watching that game was almost as brutal as watching the NBA all-star game (I imagine).  I'm glad we throttled them like we should have, but I would posit that that game didn't tell us much of anything about anything.  Maybe Kam got some confidence out of it or something, but he makes almost all of them in warmups when nobody is guarding him, too.  Looking forward to X and some real hoops this weekend.  I do think that UConn was just a game where everything pointed to a bad day and that we are ready to roll now, assuming health.

Above and beyond the great passes and made 3s, I just liked the guys' demeanor last night. I believe Shaka has a motivated group anyway, but nothing like a butt-kicking in front of a national audience to really get their attention.

So while I know there wouldn't have been anywhere near as many easy looks as there were last night had we played an actual varsity team, I think Shaka's guys were primed for an outstanding performance regardless of opponent.

You're certainly allowed to disagree. Neither of us can "prove" anything either way.

[MU1in77]

I don’t get the love for Loyola and the hatred for Dayton. Loyola plays in a high school gym while the UD Arena seats over 13,000. Loyola is currently 99 NET ranking and recent history was due to Moser & Sister Jean. Dayton is currently 19 Net made it to the elite 8 in 2014 and might have been the favorite to win the NCAA in 2020 with Obi Toppin if it hadn’t been cancelled.

[Hards Alumni]

I don’t get the love for Loyola and the hatred for Dayton. Loyola plays in a high school gym while the UD Arena seats over 13,000. Loyola is currently 99 NET ranking and recent history was due to Moser & Sister Jean. Dayton is currently 19 Net made it to the elite 8 in 2014 and might have been the favorite to win the NCAA in 2020 with Obi Toppin if it hadn’t been cancelled.

Because they're not worthy of the BEAST. 

[MU82]

I don't think the Big East ever kicks out DePaul but for the sake of argument...

Loyola
2024 Average Home Attendance: 2,787

So a team that barely half-fills a 5,000-seat arena would be an attractive addition to the Big East?

Loyola is an afterthought in its own city.

Thankfully, I'm pretty sure the conference would aim a little higher if it either wanted to expand or to replace a school it dumped.

[TallTitan34]

So a team that barely half-fills a 5,000-seat arena would be an attractive addition to the Big East?

Loyola is an afterthought in its own city.

Thankfully, I'm pretty sure the conference would aim a little higher if it either wanted to expand or to replace a school it dumped.

I agree there are much more attractive options than Loyola should the Big East look to expand or replace.

But I would argue there is more Loyola interest in Chicago than DePaul interest due to their success.

[SaveOD238]

I don’t get the love for Loyola and the hatred for Dayton. Loyola plays in a high school gym while the UD Arena seats over 13,000. Loyola is currently 99 NET ranking and recent history was due to Moser & Sister Jean. Dayton is currently 19 Net made it to the elite 8 in 2014 and might have been the favorite to win the NCAA in 2020 with Obi Toppin if it hadn’t been cancelled.

I think there's some sort of old-school rivalry that people just can't let go of.  I don't really get it either.  To me, they seem like an attractive candidate:

• Rabid fanbase
• High attendance
• "Urban" Catholic school
• Midwest/Northeast region
• Sustained basketball success at a lower level

In what way is that different than what Creighton was when they got invited to the Big East?  Sure Omaha is bigger than Dayton, but Omaha is geographically odd compared to where Dayton is located. 

[mug644]

Let's not get carried away.  A lot of those brilliant passes would have been thwarted or could not even have been attempted against defenders with a pulse.  Watching that game was almost as brutal as watching the NBA all-star game (I imagine).  I'm glad we throttled them like we should have, but I would posit that that game didn't tell us much of anything about anything.  Maybe Kam got some confidence out of it or something, but he makes almost all of them in warmups when nobody is guarding him, too.  Looking forward to X and some real hoops this weekend.  I do think that UConn was just a game where everything pointed to a bad day and that we are ready to roll now, assuming health.

If last night "didn't tell us much of anything about anything" and "UConn was just a game where everything pointed to a bad day" ... what makes you think that "we are ready to roll now"?

I think the UConn game was a classic slap down that is a reminder that winning and being consistently and highly successful is very hard, and that can be no coasting. Like earlier in the season, I sense that the team may have needed and did indeed learn that lesson. I highly appreciate Shaka's commitment to reflecting, learning and applying, as a team and as individuals.

I also think the DePaul game was a classic this is who we can be game, when (to use Shaka's words) we are connected, play our roles like champions and all that. The guys were having fun and kicking a** because they were experiencing the joy of delivering a pounding just after getting pounded. And because they could see the benefits of working a unit. Yeah, it was great that Kam and others were hitting shots off of Tyler's great passes. And it was made easy because DePaul is terrible.

The entire outing last night told me "a lot about everything" (well, that's a bit extreme; just trying to counter the 'not much of anything about anything') and I do agree that we may be ready to roll now.

[Mu8891]

Tall …

What do you think would be other
“ options “ for the BE if they dumped
DP ?

[TallTitan34]

Tall …

What do you think would be other
“ options “ for the BE if they dumped
DP ?

I don't think they will dump DePaul.   I was just posting a comparison between DePaul and Loyola.

The only schools I have interest in joining the Big East would come from an ACC breakup.

[🏀]

I think there's some sort of old-school rivalry that people just can't let go of.  I don't really get it either.  To me, they seem like an attractive candidate:

• Rabid fanbase
• High attendance
• "Urban" Catholic school
• Midwest/Northeast region
• Sustained basketball success at a lower level

In what way is that different than what Creighton was when they got invited to the Big East?  Sure Omaha is bigger than Dayton, but Omaha is geographically odd compared to where Dayton is located. 

ABD.

They bring nothing of value to the BE. They embrace being a mid-major and will stay a mid-major. There is no reason to bring the value of the BE down by adding a mid-major.

[CTWarrior]

If last night "didn't tell us much of anything about anything" and "UConn was just a game where everything pointed to a bad day" ... what makes you think that "we are ready to roll now"?

The eight games before UConn.  Destroying a beaten dog, with a lame duck interim coach who doesn't appear to know what he is doing, who was worse than the average low-D 1 cupcake before they were beaten down doesn't tell me a thing.   The fact that Tyler Kolek went into that game thinking, "You know what?  I want to work on my passing.  I'm not going to shoot today and just try to set my teammates up and get a ton of assists" is all you need to know that it was not a real game against a real team that had a chance to win.  You don't decide not to shoot when you have shots if you think its a game against real competition.  That's what you do in a scrimmage.  We looked great, but if we beat Grambling by 40 in November I wouldn't think it was a harbinger of great things to come, so why would I think this was?

I expected us to get thrashed at UConn, I expected DePaul to not put up a fight, and I expect us to play very well from here on out.  We could play well and still lose at Creighton and against UConn, by the way, but I think we will be a tough out moving forward this season.  The road game at Xavier will tell us a lot, I think.  If we are really ready to roll, we'll win that one.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I think there's some sort of old-school rivalry that people just can't let go of.  I don't really get it either.  To me, they seem like an attractive candidate:

• Rabid fanbase
• High attendance
• "Urban" Catholic school
• Midwest/Northeast region
• Sustained basketball success at a lower level

In what way is that different than what Creighton was when they got invited to the Big East?  Sure Omaha is bigger than Dayton, but Omaha is geographically odd compared to where Dayton is located.

I'm pretty sure Creighton had a large and rabid fan base prior to joining the BE. We didn't have to hope they could manage to double their attendance to fill a 5,000 seat arena.

[mug644]

The eight games before UConn.  Destroying a beaten dog, with a lame duck interim coach who doesn't appear to know what he is doing, who was worse than the average low-D 1 cupcake before they were beaten down doesn't tell me a thing.   The fact that Tyler Kolek went into that game thinking, "You know what?  I want to work on my passing.  I'm not going to shoot today and just try to set my teammates up and get a ton of assists" is all you need to know that it was not a real game against a real team that had a chance to win.  You don't decide not to shoot when you have shots if you think its a game against real competition.  That's what you do in a scrimmage.  We looked great, but if we beat Grambling by 40 in November I wouldn't think it was a harbinger of great things to come, so why would I think this was?

I expected us to get thrashed at UConn, I expected DePaul to not put up a fight, and I expect us to play very well from here on out.  We could play well and still lose at Creighton and against UConn, by the way, but I think we will be a tough out moving forward this season.  The road game at Xavier will tell us a lot, I think.  If we are really ready to roll, we'll win that one.

Fair points, and we share the same outlook for the future, though I didn't expect us to get thrashed at UConn. I expected a loss. And, I don't think the team expecting the thrashing they received. And, I think it had great value in reminding them about what it takes.

Roll on!

[Galway Eagle]

I don’t get the love for Loyola and the hatred for Dayton. Loyola plays in a high school gym while the UD Arena seats over 13,000. Loyola is currently 99 NET ranking and recent history was due to Moser & Sister Jean. Dayton is currently 19 Net made it to the elite 8 in 2014 and might have been the favorite to win the NCAA in 2020 with Obi Toppin if it hadn’t been cancelled.

Highly doubt they're the favorite people seem to forget that Kansas had already beat them that year and their SOS was 79 in a ok but not highlight year of the A10. I'd call them a great upset pick

I think there's some sort of old-school rivalry that people just can't let go of.  I don't really get it either.  To me, they seem like an attractive candidate:

• Rabid fanbase
• High attendance
• "Urban" Catholic school
• Midwest/Northeast region
• Sustained basketball success at a lower level

In what way is that different than what Creighton was when they got invited to the Big East?  Sure Omaha is bigger than Dayton, but Omaha is geographically odd compared to where Dayton is located. 

Define that please because 8 NCAA appearances in a quarter of a millennium doesn't seem very sustained and certainly 9 in 34yrs isnt.

I'm not super against them but come on Creighton had 8 from 2000-13 and an additional regular season title when the league was a 1 bid. that's sustained success at a lower level.

[SaveOD238]

I'm pretty sure Creighton had a large and rabid fan base prior to joining the BE. We didn't have to hope they could manage to double their attendance to fill a 5,000 seat arena.

I was describing Dayton with that post, not Loyola.  Dayton DOES fill up a much larger arena.

DAYTON -- The University of Dayton has announced that all available tickets for the 2023-24 men's basketball season have been sold, selling out the entire season before the Flyers take to the court for the third consecutive year. 

That includes UD's exhibition games with Ohio State on Sunday, Oct. 22, and Cedarville on Saturday, Oct. 28.

This will extend a regular-season sellout streak to 60 games dating back to 2019-2020.  This marks the fourth straight season (the NCAA did not track attendance during the Covid season) that the University of Dayton has had double-digit sellouts.  UD had 14 sellouts in 2019-2020, 17 in 2021-22 and 16 in 2022-23.  The Flyers announced sellouts before a game was played in each of the last three years.

Dayton men's basketball ranked 18th nationally in average attendance in 2022-23.  The Flyers' average 13,407 fans a game in the last three seasons is a school record in average attendance.

Since the Arena opened in 1969, Dayton has been in the NCAA`s Top 35 in men's basketball attendance all 52 seasons, and in the Top 25 a total of 34 times.  UD was the 11th school to have 10 million fans attend a men's basketball game in its current building. The others were Butler, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Minnesota, New Mexico, Purdue, Syracuse and Vanderbilt.

https://daytonflyers.com/news/2023/10/13/mens-basketball-basketball-sells-out-entire-season-for-the-third-consecutive-year

[Jockey]

DePaul is great for the BEAST.   MU gets one additional home game, (for the Chi-town crowd) and 2 mid season scrimmages with much less strain than a real BEAST game.

Yup. It’s like the Bye week in the NFL.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I don't think they will dump DePaul.   I was just posting a comparison between DePaul and Loyola.

The only schools I have interest in joining the Big East would come from an ACC breakup.

Dump DePaul if you can bring in Notre Dame.  Loyola and Dayton...no.

[Spotcheck Billy]

ABD.

They bring nothing of value to the BE. They embrace being a mid-major and will stay a mid-major. There is no reason to bring the value of the BE down by adding a mid-major.

Could Dayton ever play in the 1st four play-in games since a host school cannot play at home?

[El Guerrero 2]

I don't think they will dump DePaul.   I was just posting a comparison between DePaul and Loyola.

The only schools I have interest in joining the Big East would come from an ACC breakup.

This. The Big East isn't doing anything until the ACC situation plays out, which I expect will hit at some point in 2025.

My expectation is that the Big Ten eventually snaps up UNC, Duke, and UVA, while the SEC takes Clemson, Miami, FSU, NC State, and Va. Tech. That puts both leagues at 21 members, which I suspect is the absolute max that could even bear any resemblance to a collegiate sports conference. The Big 12 then likely grabs Pitt, Louisville, and maybe Syracuse and Georgia Tech to keep up their numbers with the big boy leagues. That leaves Wake Forest, BC, and Notre Dame.

I suspect at that point the Big East would take a flyer on ND similar to what it did with UConn. Boston College can sleep in the bed they helped make. As for DePaul, I doubt the league kicks them out just to save a couple dollars and maintain a 20 game round robin. But if they really screw up this next head coaching hire (especially if its a cheap re-tread similar to Leitao round 2) then I think some awkward conversations will need to be had. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I was describing Dayton with that post, not Loyola.  Dayton DOES fill up a much larger arena.

Ah, my bad, I misunderstood

[wadesworld]

This. The Big East isn't doing anything until the ACC situation plays out, which I expect will hit at some point in 2025.

My expectation is that the Big Ten eventually snaps up UNC, Duke, and UVA, while the SEC takes Clemson, Miami, FSU, NC State, and Va. Tech. That puts both leagues at 21 members, which I suspect is the absolute max that could even bear any resemblance to a collegiate sports conference. The Big 12 then likely grabs Pitt, Louisville, and maybe Syracuse and Georgia Tech to keep up their numbers with the big boy leagues. That leaves Wake Forest, BC, and Notre Dame.

I suspect at that point the Big East would take a flyer on ND similar to what it did with UConn. Boston College can sleep in the bed they helped make. As for DePaul, I doubt the league kicks them out just to save a couple dollars and maintain a 20 game round robin. But if they really screw up this next head coaching hire (especially if its a cheap re-tread similar to Leitao round 2) then I think some awkward conversations will need to be had.

There is no chance Notre Dame isn’t a member of one of the big conferences.