Recruiting as of 5/15/24

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So, is it your contention that there simply are no high-ranked players that fit the culture, or that there are, but Shaka just hasn't been able to land them?
Cause if he's not intentionally avoiding high-ranked players because of culture, then it's got to be one of those two things.

No high ranked players that fit the culture? Of course not. We've offered at least 2 dozen recruits that were ranked somewhere between 20 and 75 since Shaka has been here. He hasn't landed any of them yet. Now how much of that is because we lost the recruiting battle to another school, how much of it is discovering they didn't fit the culture sometime after offering them, and how much is them prioritizing a lower ranked recruit because they didn't agree with the recruiting ranking, I don't know. But I know it's a mix. Leon Bond was a highly ranked kid that we absolutely wanted but Virginia beat us out. Dai Dai Ames is a highly ranked kid and I've been led to believe that he was ours if we wanted him but the staff backed off of him once they got an idea of how good Sean Jones was, even though Ames is ranked higher and a different class.

I'm completely open to (and hopeful for) Shaka's recruiting strategy working brilliantly. But I don't think it's unreasonable to have concerns about the perceived lack of high-end players walking through the door so far.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have concerns about his recruiting either. I was vocal about a lot of concerns the summer before Shaka's first season. With how well last season went, some of my concerns have been eased. Guys like Kuath, OMax, and Kolek were not highly coveted transfers but Shaka showed that he had an eye for guys he could win with. Concerns aren't gone, we still need to see if he can build on his first season.

I do think overreliance on recruiting rankings is unreasonable. From what I've seen, after the top 20 or so recruits, there's a huge drop in correlation between higher ranking and success in college. Then after the top 45 or 50 there's an even bigger drop off. I don't think there's much difference between the 51st ranked recruit and the 150th ranked recruit in most classes. I think the coaching and fit make the difference in which players from the 50-150 range breakout. But I also get why fans like to talk about recruiting rankings. For most of us, it's the only data point we have on incoming freshmen.

[bilsu]

Man, it'd sure be nice to start competing with other high major for kids instead of the Browns and Southern Illinois's of the world.

I know what the slurpers will say.  "TAMU came in for this kid we got!  Xavier is offering that kid we're offering!"  But those are one off programs in a list of mid (at best) majors.  I want players who are listed with the Kentuckys, Kansases, UNCs, and Dukes of the world, not the Salukis.

Wojo competed with Kansas and Arizona for top players. Coming in 2nd does not help the program. Better to focus on good talent you can get before someone else takes them.

[bilsu]

I am not sure about there record this upcoming season but the following year they should be at the Top of the conference with 10 players coming back with experience.

If they are good this year, they will be good next year. If they are not good this year, having 10 players coming back is not good. Just look at Butler last year. Butler basically had all of their minutes coming back from the year before.

[bilsu]

We need to start getting the top talent in the State of Wisconsin.

[withoutbias]

I mean, instead of constantly bitching about it now, why don't we see how it plays out? He's one season in and outperformed expectations.

Sure. Shut Scoop down until November 8. No need in discussing the outlook of the team, let’s “see how it plays out” before we discuss any further.

[wadesworld]

Dai Dai Ames is a highly ranked kid and I've been led to believe that he was ours if we wanted him but the staff backed off of him once they got an idea of how good Sean Jones was, even though Ames is ranked higher and a different class.

Now THAT is the most concerning thing I’ve heard about Shaka and staff. By FAR. I’m a HUGE Sean Jones believer and have said for months I think he’ll need to be our best player to have much team success this year. But when you have a talented kid who wants to come to Marquette, you don’t just say, “Thanks, but we have a kid the year above you who is really good so we’re going to wish you the best of luck elsewhere.” ESPECIALLY at the guard position.

That’s really disappointing if there’s any truth at all to that.

Just can’t imagine Horst being like “Thanks for your interest KD. We like where we’re at with Giannis.”

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

But when you have a talented kid who wants to come to Marquette, you don’t just say, “Thanks, but we have a kid the year above you who is really good so we’re going to wish you the best of luck elsewhere.” ESPECIALLY at the guard position.

Of course you do. There are scholarship limits. You can't take every player who wants to come.

Now THAT is the most concerning thing I’ve heard about Shaka and staff. By FAR. I’m a HUGE Sean Jones believer and have said for months I think he’ll need to be our best player to have much team success this year. But when you have a talented kid who wants to come to Marquette, you don’t just say, “Thanks, but we have a kid the year above you who is really good so we’re going to wish you the best of luck elsewhere.” ESPECIALLY at the guard position.

That’s really disappointing if there’s any truth at all to that.

Just can’t imagine Horst being like “Thanks for your interest KD. We like where we’re at with Giannis.”

Ames isn't KD. We had one open scholarship, a greater need at forward, and were in good position with Amadou and Norman. There's only so much room for vertically challenged guards in Shaka's system. We ended up with Norman who is ranked right around Ames and is a better physical match for Shaka's system (and the staff may also think he's better than Ames). Who would you have cut to add Ames?

[BCHoopster]

They have enough guards, they liked Jones so they go with him.  I am more intrigued with recruiting in 2024. No available scholarships right now, I am sure he will take someone but he recruits totally different then Al. If it was me, I would put all my money on 1 or 2 5 star athletes early and see if he gets one. 

[wadesworld]

Of course you do. There are scholarship limits. You can't take every player who wants to come.


Ames isn't KD. We had one open scholarship, a greater need at forward, and were in good position with Amadou and Norman. There's only so much room for vertically challenged guards in Shaka's system. Who would you have cut to add Ames?

So why were they ever recruiting Ames then? Weren’t they in good shape with Amadou and Norman all along, even when the coaching staff didn’t know how good Sean Jones was? And haven’t Sean Jones and Dai Dai Ames “vertically challenged” all along, even when Sean Jones was signed on and the coaching staff string Dai Dai along to the point we, allegedly, would’ve had him had we wanted him?

I’m guessing the “cuts” will take care of themselves over the course of this season. Just like they will for Tre Norman. Some think OMax is going pro.

[jfp61]

No high ranked players that fit the culture? Of course not. We've offered at least 2 dozen recruits that were ranked somewhere between 20 and 75 since Shaka has been here. He hasn't landed any of them yet. Now how much of that is because we lost the recruiting battle to another school, how much of it is discovering they didn't fit the culture sometime after offering them, and how much is them prioritizing a lower ranked recruit because they didn't agree with the recruiting ranking, I don't know. But I know it's a mix. Leon Bond was a highly ranked kid that we absolutely wanted but Virginia beat us out. Dai Dai Ames is a highly ranked kid and I've been led to believe that he was ours if we wanted him but the staff backed off of him once they got an idea of how good Sean Jones was, even though Ames is ranked higher and a different class.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have concerns about his recruiting either. I was vocal about a lot of concerns the summer before Shaka's first season. With how well last season went, some of my concerns have been eased. Guys like Kuath, OMax, and Kolek were not highly coveted transfers but Shaka showed that he had an eye for guys he could win with. Concerns aren't gone, we still need to see if he can build on his first season.

I do think overreliance on recruiting rankings is unreasonable. From what I've seen, after the top 20 or so recruits, there's a huge drop in correlation between higher ranking and success in college. Then after the top 45 or 50 there's an even bigger drop off. I don't think there's much difference between the 51st ranked recruit and the 150th ranked recruit in most classes. I think the coaching and fit make the difference in which players from the 50-150 range breakout. But I also get why fans like to talk about recruiting rankings. For most of us, it's the only data point we have on incoming freshmen.

Not really to do with sean jones, more to do with Tre Norman. Close.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So why were they ever recruiting Ames then? Weren’t they in good shape with Amadou and Norman all along, even when the coaching staff didn’t know how good Sean Jones was? And haven’t Sean Jones and Dai Dai Ames “vertically challenged” all along, even when Sean Jones was signed on and the coaching staff string Dai Dai along to the point we, allegedly, would’ve had him had we wanted him?

I’m guessing the “cuts” will take care of themselves over the course of this season. Just like they will for Tre Norman. Some think OMax is going pro.

I would imagine it's because they thought Ames was better than Jones was. Once they realized that wasn't the case, the need at the position lessened. They also gave a scholarship to Lowery who was ready to commit sooner so the scholarship situation changed. We're currently slated to have 8 guards, 5 of whom have PG experience on next year's roster and all of them will have have at least one more year of eligibility after that season. It's not like we are hurting on the guard front.

Oversigning by one is one thing. Oversigning by two is another. Maybe Shaka would be comfortable with that, I don't know.

I'll also take a mea culpa here. I probably used too strong of language by saying "he was ours if we wanted him", that gives the impression that he had called to commit. What I meant by it was I was led to believe that we were the perceived leader and felt like we were in a strong position.

[jfp61]

We need to start getting the top talent in the State of Wisconsin.

Players that might be worth targeting from Wisconsin.

2022
- Trimble (followed his half brother to UNC)
- Bond (lost a 60/40 starting late vs virginia)

2023
- Momcilovic ( Iowa state had the head start, fits their play style well and wouldn't exactly fit MU's)

2024
- Just Kon Knuppel for me. Marquette is in for him, but is considering Stanford and ND heavy.

- Could argue for Nick, but no need for a guard.

2025
- Rogers, visited in August.
- Hannah, (second 2025 offer.)

Outside of Bond and Maybe Hannah, I dont think any are great 100% fits for the play style.

Also so few good Marquette players are really from wisconsin so wasting your time recruiting 1-2 players a year, just because they are from the state is dumb

[Herman Cain]

I am looking at MU recruiting through The Gilligan’s island prism .

Seems like we are trying to get a few Gingers  but  are scoring on a lot of Mary Ann’s . That’s  not a bad thing . It could be worse we could be ending with Mrs Howell.

[We R Final Four]

I am looking at MU recruiting through The Gillian’s island prism .

Seems like we are trying to get a few Gingers  but  are scoring on a lot of Mary Ann’s . That not a bad thing . It could be worse we could be ending with Mrs Howell.

Ill take May Anns all day long.

[Pakuni]

I am looking at MU recruiting through The Gilligan’s island prism .

Seems like we are trying to get a few Gingers  but  are scoring on a lot of Mary Ann’s . That’s  not a bad thing . It could be worse we could be ending with Mrs Howell.

Did someone say ginger?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Sure. Shut Scoop down until November 8. No need in discussing the outlook of the team, let’s “see how it plays out” before we discuss any further.

🙄🙄🙄. It’s so much better to constantly bitch about Shaka’s recruiting over and over again. Even better when he actually performs better than expected.

[Daniel]

Ill take May Anns all day long.

Yes if we had all Mary Ann’s on the court in blue Jean shorts could be distracting to the opponents.

[bilsu]

Players that might be worth targeting from Wisconsin.

2022
- Trimble (followed his half brother to UNC)
- Bond (lost a 60/40 starting late vs virginia)

2023
- Momcilovic ( Iowa state had the head start, fits their play style well and wouldn't exactly fit MU's)

2024
- Just Kon Knuppel for me. Marquette is in for him, but is considering Stanford and ND heavy.

- Could argue for Nick, but no need for a guard.

2025
- Rogers, visited in August.
- Hannah, (second 2025 offer.)

Outside of Bond and Maybe Hannah, I dont think any are great 100% fits for the play style.

Also so few good Marquette players are really from wisconsin so wasting your time recruiting 1-2 players a year, just because they are from the state is dumb

In recent years there have been several highly ranked Wisconsin recruits that have gone outside of the State. The only thing good about this is that they also did not go to UW.

[jfp61]

In recent years there have been several highly ranked Wisconsin recruits that have gone outside of the State. The only thing good about this is that they also did not go to UW.

Name the players Marquette actually missed on. They either weren't gettable. Not good enough. Or Wojo was dumb (pretty much just Halliburton falls here).

Obsessing over instate recruiting is pointlessly limiting, and rather detrimental to MU or UW's long term health. That's why they don't do it.

[Pakuni]

Name the players Marquette actually missed on. They either weren't gettable. Not good enough. Or Wojo was dumb (pretty much just Halliburton falls here).

How is "not gettable" different from missed on?
Missed on in recent classes:
Leon Bond
Seth Trimble
Tyrese Hunter
Jalen Johnson
Johnny Davis

FWIW, I have no expectation that MU lands every good player in Wisconsin. It's never going to happen. But to suggest we haven't missed on any is plainly wrong.

[cheebs09]

How is "not gettable" different from missed on?
Missed on in recent classes:
Leon Bond
Seth Trimble
Tyrese Hunter
Jalen Johnson
Johnny Davis

FWIW, I have no expectation that MU lands every good player in Wisconsin. It's never going to happen. But to suggest we haven't missed on any is plainly wrong.

Weren’t we in on Davis, but UW was in earlier and offered his brother to seal the deal? I don’t think we want another Ellenson situation.

I don’t know that there was ever a chance Jalen Johnson was staying in-state.

I don’t believe Hunter’s freshman year was all that good and he’s already transferred.

[MUfan12]

Of that group Bond and Hunter were the most "gettable," even though Shaka was playing catch-up with the former.

[Pakuni]

I don’t believe Hunter’s freshman year was all that good and he’s already transferred.

Hunter was Big 12 Freshman of the Year.

[cheebs09]

Hunter was Big 12 Freshman of the Year.

Thanks for the correction. I thought the advanced stats showed he struggled quite a bit, even though his counting stats looked decent.

[brewcity77]

How is "not gettable" different from missed on?
Missed on in recent classes:
Leon Bond
Seth Trimble
Tyrese Hunter
Jalen Johnson
Johnny Davis

FWIW, I have no expectation that MU lands every good player in Wisconsin. It's never going to happen. But to suggest we haven't missed on any is plainly wrong.

I have a hard time holding many of those against Shaka. He wasn't here for Hunter, Johnson, or Davis. Those are Wojo decisions. Trimble and Bond were the first two players he offered. He tried, but Tony Bennett had a strong relationship already built with Bond and Trimble followed his brother to UNC. Both commitments were made just a few months after Shaka got here.

Milan was the only major 2023, so there's an argument there. Knueppel is the biggest test for 2024. Maybe someone like Sekou Konneh if he develops. We'll see how Davion Hannah and Kai Rogers play out in 2025.

All things considered, there aren't a ton of high major guys that come through the state. That run of Looney, Stone, Ellenson, Johnson, Baldwin, Foster was pretty abnormal by state standards.

Ultimately, though, this staff can only be blamed for available players offered by this staff. Wojo's shortcomings shouldn't be given to Shaka by osmosis.